Estonia to lose independence in 10 years

[Loki77]

Finnish writer: Estonia to lose independence in 10 years

Finnish writer Johan Bäckman forecasts that Estonia has only ten years of independence left.
Postimees writes that Bäckman who is an expert of criminology and law and is currently looking for a publisher for his new book “Bronze Soldier” says that Estonia is about to collapse.
“The book is about the April riots, the situation around the Bronze Soldier and the “classified” history of Estonia and Finland. Estonia is going towards a precipice and has no more than ten years as an independent country,” writes Bäckman.
In the opinion of the expert, the removal of the Bronze Soldier monument was the final date in the history of Estonia.

Source (http://www.balticbusinessnews.com/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=becc1bf7-ae5f-44bf-b9c9-74824c98cd26&open=sec)

[N_F_S]

Estonia can sit back and relax and not make up problems, that dont exist.

[PVJ]

i dunno how to say this without being disrespectfull, but what could Estonia possibly have that Russia needs? They got like 50 000 times the land Estonia has and already has access to the baltic sea.

[N_F_S]

i dunno how to say this without being disrespectfull, but what could Estonia possibly have that Russia needs? They got like 50 000 times the land Estonia has and already has access to the baltic sea.


its all provocations by Estonia, they cannot do anything bad to Russia, thats what left to them, to shout some cr*p in media. I guess they didnt like when Russia stopped buying their meet :)

It is not a 1960 now, to invade a EU country.

p.s: how do I turn off the automatic subscription to the threads?? Ahm I got it.

[Bert]

Sure.. In 10 years they and everyone else down there will be a regional federate state under the EU. p-)

[matthew.manhorn]

What an opportune time to do "forecasting", wow what a prophet.

[Basillicus]

I don't see that happening. Of course the current Russian government could make up some hilarious sh1t about genocide and imaginary number of dead (like that "1500" in SO that is repeated everywhere without any proof), and then drive the tanks over the border before anyone can do a thing. They are immoral thugs who have little restraint, there's no doubt about that. But Estonia is part of the EU and NATO and hasn't got anything the Russians want so I'd say they are pretty safe now and in the future. Perhaps if there is a conflict between Russia and NATO some time in the future they might be targeted to push NATO further from St. Petersburg or something but I doubt they would deliberately want to occupy the Baltic countries.

[tommy00]

In 10 years the world ends, and then comes a big spaceship and brings us all(exept Johan Bäckman) to a new planet where we all gonna live happyly ever after.......:)


That statment of mine has the same much credibility as a Bäckmans above, so are we going to seriously discuss mine to...??

[Atlantic Friend]

i dunno how to say this without being disrespectfull, but what could Estonia possibly have that Russia needs? They got like 50 000 times the land Estonia has and already has access to the baltic sea.

Not meaning to be disrespectful either, but that was also true in 1940, and yet...

[DID]

anyway I think many peoples are becoming paroniac because of this Georgia problem...

[muede]

Well, thanks to Stalin almost half of the population are RUSSIANs that dont give a *uck about Estonia so there could be something in this. :/ (tho wiki says 344,280 and 25.6% im pretty sure thats incorrect, maybe its just the Russians that actually have the citizenship of Estonia?)

Cheers.

[Doublethinker]

i dunno how to say this without being disrespectfull, but what could Estonia possibly have that Russia needs? They got like 50 000 times the land Estonia has and already has access to the baltic sea.

the ports.

Even now, after almost 20 years of independence Russia cant provide sufficient port facilities for all the incoming-outgoing activity in the Baltic.

[ilmakas]

Well, thanks to Stalin almost half of the population are RUSSIANs that dont give a *uck about Estonia so there could be something in this. :/ (tho wiki says 344,280 and 25.6% im pretty sure thats incorrect, maybe its just the Russians that actually have the citizenship of Estonia?)

Cheers.

wiki has the right numbers. 26% are russians and ca 29% of the population speak russian as their first language (russians + some other nations from ex-ussr territory). They live mainly in Tallinn and Ida-Virumaa county (estonians were expelled some of the towns in this county after the war and russians were shipped in).

[Hukatus]

...I guess they didnt like when Russia stopped buying their meet :)i think you have mistaken Estonia for Poland.


Well, thanks to Stalin almost half of the population are RUSSIANs that dont give a *uck about Estonia so there could be something in this. :/ (tho wiki says 344,280 and 25.6% im pretty sure thats incorrect, maybe its just the Russians that actually have the citizenship of Estonia?)

Cheers.i think you have messed up Estonia with Latvia.

[N_F_S]

I don't see that happening. Of course the current Russian government could make up some hilarious sh1t about genocide and imaginary number of dead (like that "1500" in SO that is repeated everywhere without any proof), and then drive the tanks over the border before anyone can do a thing. They are immoral thugs who have little restraint, there's no doubt about that. But Estonia is part of the EU and NATO and hasn't got anything the Russians want so I'd say they are pretty safe now and in the future. Perhaps if there is a conflict between Russia and NATO some time in the future they might be targeted to push NATO further from St. Petersburg or something but I doubt they would deliberately want to occupy the Baltic countries.

so if there are 35K refugees fled to Russia and the whole city of Tskhinvali is ruined, there cant be 1,5K deaths? Where is your logic?

Where is the proof that Russians bombed Georgia and headed Tbilisi, where?? Show me. How many georgians died in Georgia? Cant see any numbers? Hello, there is only silence.

[Afro-European]

Another crappy fearmongering article!!! Yuk.It seems like Russia is the most fearsome country in the world.

[Dercius]

Yes, thats true. Estonians have 9 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days and 20h 35min 13secs before their country is invaded and overwhelmed by the 3rd Galactic fleet of the Marskinnnng Empire under the comand of Great Admiral Wullllmarssss. Muahahahahaha

Humansssssss your end aproachessssssss!!!

rofl

[Mr.K]

Not meaning to be disrespectful either, but that was also true in 1940, and yet...
In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were fighting eachother and Estonia happened to be in the middle.

[domokun]

In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were fighting eachother and Estonia happened to be in the middle.

Estonia was actually given to Soviets or given free hands on Estonia by nazis.

World didn't care much about it then, they had their hands full elsewhere... sad.

I'll doubt that anything will happen Estonia in near future, they are part of NATO, Russia will not play with that fire, they are too far intelligent to sign their own (rest of humanity's) death sentence.

[Atlantic Friend]

In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were fighting eachother and Estonia happened to be in the middle.

Napoleon should have thought of that. "I'm not invading Russia, I am fighting the Grand Mogol and Russia just happens to be in the middle" ;)

BTW, in June 1940 USSR and Nazi Germany weren't exactly fighting... they had just invaded Poland together.

[Mr.K]

Napoleon should have thought of that. "I'm not invading Russia, I am fighting the Grand Mogol and Russia just happens to be in the middle" ;)

BTW, in June 1940 USSR and Nazi Germany weren't exactly fighting... they had just invaded Poland together.

Poland happened to be in the middle too. Both wanted a bigger buffer zone against each other before starting the fight.

[PVJ]

You guys realize that Russian leaders of today and 70 years ago are different right? In todays geopolitical world, Estonia dosent provide any benefits(again not trying to be disrespectful) Russia already has St Petersburg and Kaliningrad/koiningsburg, watever u wanna call it, to station a Baltic fleet and for ports. They got more then enough money to enlarge the ports they already have or build new ones.

[jaybe]

Kaliningrad/koiningsburg
Koenigsberg p-)

[GazB]

BTW, in June 1940 USSR and Nazi Germany weren't exactly fighting... they had just invaded Poland together.

Was Czechoslovakia and Poland fighting each other when Poland pinched a bit of Czech land when Germany gobbled it up?

Stalin is dead and is not in charge of Russia now. I am pleased the Russian government seems to have woken up and realised that its place really isn't as a friend to the west... simply because the west has no friends. Saddam was the wests friend and look what they ended up doing to him. Business partner and trade partner and political partner in things of mutual interest but otherwise seperate entities that are rivals in some areas and same minded on others... and that is all they can be.

Hell... even the like minded western EU and the equally like minded NATO rarely fully agrees on most things. Why hold Russia to a higher standard than that?

[LineDoggie]

In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were fighting eachother and Estonia happened to be in the middle.


In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were Best Buddies, remember the "Non-Agression Pact" signed by Molotov and Ribbentrop in August 1939?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/pact.jpg


Then the "sharing" of Poland began shortly thereafter ( about 8 days later.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/pact.htm

[muede]

i think you have messed up Estonia with Latvia.
Well, the point was anyhow that todays Estonia has large Russian minority generated by communist policies, and that this minority is generating all kinds of problems, like the statue incident, organised crime so on, they are not loyal to Estonia, but to great extend to Moscow. Which is sad and alarming, and might someday provide Moscow with a reason for "intervention".

Just compare with Finland we have 5 times more people, 5 times less "Russians", and of those great majority speak Finnish and are making a effort to be good Finns.

Cheers.

[GazB]

In 1940 Stalin and Hitler were Best Buddies, remember the "Non-Agression Pact" signed by Molotov and Ribbentrop in August 1939?

I guess English must be a second language for you.

A Non-Agression Pact is an agreement not to attack each other.

If they were buddies WTF would they need a Non Aggression Pact between them?

That non aggression pact was violated by Germany but was worth its weight in Gold to the USSR. When the Japanese found out about it they decided to use Germany but to never trust them. When in 1942-1943 period that the Germans asked the Japanese to open a second front and attack the Soviet Union from the east they declined. The value of that piece of paper alone was worth more to the Soviets than all the promises of a second front the so called allies were putting off as long as possible.

[Sergei]

Looks like the economy is really slowing down in Estonia if such articles appear.

Looks like the revenge of the "Bronze Soldier" is coming home to roost.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/T%C3%B5nism%C3%A4e_monument_1999.jpg/300px-T%C3%B5nism%C3%A4e_monument_1999.jpg


Railway traffic from Russia through Estonia cut by 50%.
Cargo shipment cut by 35% and going to be cut by further 30-40% until Ust-Luga terminal starts working to full capacity.
Oil and gas transit - cut 35-40%.
Coal - cut.
Timber industry - cut.

we are talking gazillions of dollars of trade here.

Some estonian politicians took a calculator and started counting their "stupidity"? Good for them. But as usual too slow.
The estonians always were an object of jokes for being "slow thinking" back in the Soviet days.

[monty1]

Looks like the economy is really slowing down in Estonia if such articles appear.

Looks like the revenge of the "Bronze Soldier" is coming home to roost.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/T%C3%B5nism%C3%A4e_monument_1999.jpg/300px-T%C3%B5nism%C3%A4e_monument_1999.jpg


Railway traffic from Russia through Estonia cut by 50%.
Cargo shipment cut by 35% and going to be cut by further 30-40% until Ust-Luga terminal starts working to full capacity.
Oil and gas transit - cut 35-40%.
Coal - cut.
Timber industry - cut.

we are talking gazillions of dollars of trade here.

Some estonian politicians took a calculator and started counting their "stupidity"? Good for them. But as usual too slow.
The estonians always were an object of jokes for being "slow thinking" back in the Soviet days.
....all of which would have happened anyway? The russians were building the ports since mid-90-s, their long-term goal has been to cut the baltics out for a longer time. And it is sound and logical step for them.
AND it´s good for us too in longer perspective - the less their economical influence is, the better for our prospects in the future. We have re-orientated our economy 2 times since 1991 - and it has done us good so far. The lesser leverage Rus. has in estonia, the better .
And BTW - the timber cut goes for Finns too, actually hits them much harder than us . For the last couple of years this has been their most important point in regards to Russia and they got the same finger as everybody else . So my question is - why is it important to have any good economical-political relations with Russia at all? If one decision by someone in power can cut off you from your company (like the BP president) and no legal system to protect you - all you can do is to blame yourself for taking such high-risk investment , right? The less Est. has to do with Rus., the better

[AlexMartin2]

You are all wrong!
Estonia didnt have 10 years, they even didnt have 10 months!

Big Hadron Collider (or BAC, "BAC/бац" mean "Boom" in Russian) start work in 2 months. After he start "boom"-ing, Estonia will dematerializes and materialize again on Mars.
And there Estonians will live happily and prosper without any evil Russian interference :)

[kosse]

Looks like the economy is really slowing down in Estonia if such articles appear.
That's not the reason. A Finnish swamp author/troll is just rattling his cage. He's striking while the iron is hot i.e. fears of Russian aggression are on the table due to Georgia crisis. The more he stirs the shyt the more his next BS book sells :lol:

[LineDoggie]

I guess English must be a second language for you.

A Non-Agression Pact is an agreement not to attack each other.

If they were buddies WTF would they need a Non Aggression Pact between them?

That non aggression pact was violated by Germany but was worth its weight in Gold to the USSR. When the Japanese found out about it they decided to use Germany but to never trust them. When in 1942-1943 period that the Germans asked the Japanese to open a second front and attack the Soviet Union from the east they declined. The value of that piece of paper alone was worth more to the Soviets than all the promises of a second front the so called allies were putting off as long as possible.

You must have a Hard time with Reading Comprehension, huh?

It says in 1940, ergo AFTER the Non Agression Pact was signed, common mistake on your part though, no worries.

[Kralj Tvrtko]

Well, the point was anyhow that todays Estonia has large Russian minority generated by communist policies, and that this minority is generating all kinds of problems, like the statue incident, organised crime so on, they are not loyal to Estonia, but to great extend to Moscow. Which is sad and alarming,


Sounds like Georgia. Communist policies made Abkhazia and South Ossetia part of Georgia... or that is not problem like Russians in Estonia? Btw, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia recognized Kosovo ASAP... when will they recognize Abkhazia and SO?

[Codazo]

Sounds like Georgia. Communist policies made Abkhazia and South Ossetia part of Georgia... or that is not problem like Russians in Estonia? Btw, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia recognized Kosovo ASAP... when will they recognize Abkhazia and SO?
Anything good for Russia is Bad for Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia it's been like that ever since 1991 :).

[kosse]

Anything good for Russia is Bad for Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia it's been like that ever since 1991 :).

Not really. Bordering countries want Russia to become a stable democracy that is safe to invest in and trade with. Increase of Russian purchasing power and wellbeing will increase the trade and benefits it's neighbours immensely.

Sadly Russia seems to be reverting back to it's past as a neighbourhood scarecrow throwing it's weight around violently.

[Flamming_Python]

Well, the point was anyhow that todays Estonia has large Russian minority generated by communist policies, and that this minority is generating all kinds of problems, like the statue incident, organised crime so on, they are not loyal to Estonia, but to great extend to Moscow. Which is sad and alarming, and might someday provide Moscow with a reason for "intervention".

Why do you think that is? If Estonia treated them as their own people, instead of some Slavic aliens, and decided to build a common nation state with them rather than to the exclusion of them, things might have been different.

From what I heard the society is split apart by an invisible wall. Russians stick to their kind, and Estonians stick to theirs. There are many exceptions, but still on the majority both despise each other's culture and language (maybe i'm wrong on this, but its the impression I get sometimes), to an extent unknown among fellow European peoples.

What I do know is that my half-brother who was born there and lives there now, claims he would greet the sight of Russian tanks on the streets of Tallinn :D


Just compare with Finland we have 5 times more people, 5 times less "Russians", and of those great majority speak Finnish and are making a effort to be good Finns.

Cheers.Finland is an established, stable nation state which doesn't promote ethnic nationalism at the expense of its minorities, but instead offers great opportunities for work, high living standards and a good education system. It's only natural Russians would want to integrate.

[Kralj Tvrtko]

Not really. Bordering countries want Russia to become a stable democracy that is safe to invest in and trade with. Increase of Russian purchasing power and wellbeing will increase the trade and benefits it's neighbours immensely.

Sadly Russia seems to be reverting back to it's past as a neighbourhood scarecrow throwing it's weight around violently.

Imagine even stronger and richer Russia, funding ie Russian culture societies in the Baltics :) Buying and settling properties in L-L-E... attracting people to learn Russian for economic reasons... a nightmare.

Russia is being made scarecrow. Otherwise they would not be blamed for Georgian agressive acts. Otherwise LLE would not worry about recognition of Abkh. and SO... they recognized Kosovo for Gods sake!

http://www.vm.ee/eng/kat_138/9350.html
21 February 2008
http://web-static.vm.ee/imgs/eng_nupp_prindi.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:avaaken%28%27/eng/kat_138/aken_prindi/9350.html%27,607,455%29) http://web-static.vm.ee/imgs/pix.gif
Estonia recognises Republic of Kosovo
http://web-static.vm.ee/imgs/pix.gif The government of the Republic of Estonia decided during its session today to recognise the independence of the Republic of Kosovo.

Foreign minister Urmas Paet emphasised that the best plan for Kosovo is the status settlement and time schedule proposed by UN Special Envoy of the Secretary General Martti Ahtisaari. "It is noteworthy that in its declaration of independence, the Kosovo Assembly confirms its readiness to implement the Ahtisaari plan, including everything that deals with minorities and the protection of their cultural heritage," Paet emphasised.

The foreign minister added that Estonia is supporting the European Union civilian mission in Kosovo by sending experts to the mission.

Kosovo has been under international control for the past eight years. The Kosovo Assembly declared the province independent from Serbia on 17 February.


Spokesperson's Office
pressitalitus@mfa.ee

[MZKT]

Not really. Bordering countries want Russia to become a stable democracy that is safe to invest in and trade with. Increase of Russian purchasing power and wellbeing will increase the trade and benefits it's neighbours immensely.

Actually it's reversed. The major amount of their hostility emerged when the purchasing power started growing in russia and the country stabilized after the anarchy of the 90s.

[Revolveri]

I'm curious about what would happen if Finland decided to remove/move the statue of Alexander II from Senaatintori(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsinki_Senate_Square). Even though I've no love for Russians in general and distrust them (yes Im prejudiced, no human can claim theyre not prejudiced about anything), I think Finland should keep that statue. Personally I respect Alexander II in the regard that he let Finland have greater autonomy and let us build a national identity for ourselves even if it was a strategic decision(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_II_of_Russia#Rewarding_loyalty_and_encouraging_Finnish_nationalism).

I understand Estonia though. Years under Soviet rule has left its marks and it'll be a long time until Estonians will trust Russians again (even though Russia is not USSR or vice versa but still was a major part of it).

EDIT: Hmm, I read the wiki further about Alexander II and it seems he wasn't so kind to Poles and Lithuanians :(.

[kosse]

Actually it's reversed. The major amount of their hostility emerged when the purchasing power started growing in russia and the country stabilized after the anarchy of the 90s.

Oh yeah, that's why we have been pumping money to Russia to all kinds of development projects - to keep Russia down.

That's why we try to reason with Russian authorities all the time to make their customs work more swiftly and efficiently. We even promised to pay the salaries to extra customs officials to speed up things - to keep Russia down.

That's why we are building bigger roads to transport goods and building parks for Russian trucks - to keep Russia down.

That's why Finnish companies are opening new factories and outlets in Russia - to keep Russia down.


NOW IT'S OFFICIAL. IT'S ALL BEEN A CONSPIRACY TO KEEP RUSSIA DOWN BECAUSE IT BENEFITS US AGAINST ALL LOGIC.

[Mr.K]

Oh yeah, that's why we have been pumping money to Russia to all kinds of development projects - to keep Russia down.

That's why we try to reason with Russian authorities all the time to make their customs work more swiftly and efficiently. We even promised to pay the salaries to extra customs officials to speed up things - to keep Russia down.

That's why we are building bigger roads to transport goods and building parks for Russian trucks - to keep Russia down.

That's why Finnish companies are opening new factories and outlets in Russia - to keep Russia down.


NOW IT'S OFFICIAL. IT'S ALL BEEN A CONSPIRACY TO KEEP RUSSIA DOWN BECAUSE IT BENEFITS US AGAINST ALL LOGIC.

Honkey please...:roll:, stop taking general comments and observations as something personal and directed at Finalnd.

[Revolveri]

Honkey please...:roll:, stop taking general comments and observations as something personal and directed at Finalnd.

Lol, maybe kosse was born with a short fuse. When there's a fly around he takes a cannon out, hehe.

[kosse]

Honkey please...:roll:, stop taking general comments and observations as something personal and directed at Finalnd.

Well, Finland is a good example. And quite frankly I just can't see how any other European-Russian border country would really benefit from having bad relations with Russia or having a weak and unstable Russia as a neighbour.


Lol, maybe kosse was born with a short fuse. When there's a fly around he takes a cannon out, hehe.

Haha, sometimes the heavy artillery gets the message through better p-)

[Mr.K]

Well, Finland is a good example. And quite frankly I just can't see how any other European-Russian border country would really benefit from having bad relations with Russia or having a weak and unstable Russia as a neighbour.

Ah, so you want a "stronger Russia"? Reported to the McCarthyist brigade of MP.net!p-)




Haha, sometimes the heavy artillery gets the message through better p-)

It sounded more like a cry of despair. :hug:

[Flamming_Python]

Imagine even stronger and richer Russia, funding ie Russian culture societies in the Baltics :) Buying and settling properties in L-L-E... attracting people to learn Russian for economic reasons... a nightmare.

x2

It would be a nightmare for the Scandinavian and Eastern European nationalists. As well as the supremists who insist on English being the lingua franca of the whole world, and who made so much efforts to get rid of the 'imperial' Russian language during the 90's.


Oh yeah, that's why we have been pumping money to Russia to all kinds of development projects - to keep Russia down.

That's why we try to reason with Russian authorities all the time to make their customs work more swiftly and efficiently. We even promised to pay the salaries to extra customs officials to speed up things - to keep Russia down.

That's why we are building bigger roads to transport goods and building parks for Russian trucks - to keep Russia down.

That's why Finnish companies are opening new factories and outlets in Russia - to keep Russia down.


NOW IT'S OFFICIAL. IT'S ALL BEEN A CONSPIRACY TO KEEP RUSSIA DOWN BECAUSE IT BENEFITS US AGAINST ALL LOGIC.

Not to keep Russia down; but to make money. Spare me the BS about Finland doing it out of the kindness of its heart, every nation Russia & Finland included do things only for profit and self-interest.

Not that we don't benefit from it. Just saying...

[ilmakas]

From what I heard the society is split apart by an invisible wall. Russians stick to their kind, and Estonians stick to theirs.There are many exceptions....

yes, this is pretty much true. Most people interact with members of other nationality only in workplaces. And politics seems to be a taboo that people dont discuss for the sake of keeping peaceful work environment :D Well, at least in firms with estonian majority that I know of.


What I do know is that my half-brother who was born there and lives there now, claims he would greet the sight of Russian tanks on the streets of Tallinn :D

Well, in that case, Estonia will turn into Nowhereville, Russia. We have pretty good example just across the border (Pskov, Slantsy, Novgorod) what that looks like - you might begin to believe in time travel in those areas, much hasnt changed since 1991.

[Flamming_Python]

Well, in that case, Estonia will turn into Nowhereville, Russia. We have pretty good example just across the border (Pskov, Slantsy, Novgorod) what that looks like - you might begin to believe in time travel in those areas, much hasnt changed since 1991.

You should come to St.Petersburg, it will be like time travel but towards the future :D

[Loki77]

Another crappy fearmongering article!!! Yuk.It seems like Russia is the most fearsome country in the world.

Wow...

Russians in Estonia: Union of North-Westerners of New Generation


About the right of self-determination of Russian community of Estonia.

The events of "bronze night" began counting out of new time. They exposed the folded political situation, when we do not want to live on old, and they already can not manage on old. All must realize that a return to former already will not be.

A generation which does not wish to reconcile oneself to with position of the discriminated minority grew. Proclamation of the USA gives a new impulse this process and by its European allies of independence of the Kosovskogo enclave in Serbia. Estonia, acknowledging such independence, acknowledged principle of self-determination of nation up to a separation.Íåñîìíåííî,÷òî Russians have the same proavo in Estonia and related to Russians on a language and culture of dr.naciy,vkhodyaschikh in Russian community of edge.

We have this right and consequently must them avail for creation of Russian Autonomy. Experience of 17-letnego stay in composition Estonian resp.pokazal,chto in other case we will not be able to decide the problem of renewal of the lost rights and freedoms. We must take for an example experience of little Belgium, which was quite recently regenerate in the federal state, consisting of two nationally territorial units.

Obviously, that permission of kosovskogo crisis on the American scenario gave the tolchek process of reconstructing of mutual relations of regions and mother countries in Western Europe. Problems of mutual relations of Scotland and Wales with Great Britain, Flandrii with Belgium, Baskonii and Galisii with Spain et cetera it will be necessary to decide European Union. Consequently, the of principle decisions of ES through this question will create new situation in Europe which will affect Estonia. Here then we will get real vazmozhnost' to realize the right to decide the fate independently. But it is needed to prepare to it. Russian public organizations of Estonia, which initiate a robot on forming of Russian Autonomy in Estonia must conduct registration of members of Russian community (in bud. RA) and give out a certification, conduct opros-referendum about attitude toward creation of RA and combine these actions with an izbiratel'nly campaign in Evroparlament.

It will allow not only to consolidate Russian community round the basic national requirement are rights of self-determination but also will enable to produce the results of voleizyavleniya of Russian community in international organizations and, consequently, to place an order on independence. Realization of these measures will allow us to begin the real political fight for self-determination and national equality of rights.

We suppose also, that the day of April, 26 must become in the day-time fight for rights and freedom, in the day-time fight against the national oppressing. Such are lessons and results of "bronze night".

On the instructions of rule of SSZNP O.Yu.Morozov.

Also, they had this cute little map:

http://i045.radikal.ru/0805/50/96ebd1311215.jpg
http://ssznp.livejournal.com/5627.html


By the way, Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia AND:
the product of soviet colonization: Russian Autonomy in Estonia!

[Flamming_Python]

This situation can still be avoided and I hope it will. The last thing we need is an apartheid situation right on the Baltic coast. Estonia needs to re-think it's policies. If it is against Russia, so be it, although it certainly can do more to raise relations and economical links.

But it is making a huge mistake to see the Russian people as its enemies, it should appease them and make steps towards creating a single Estonian society, not 2 parallel ones split by ethnicity and language. Learning Estonian is important, many Russians living there realize that and are taking steps towards it, but Estonia also needs to re-think it's policies on the Russian language, and do more to integrate with the rest of the Russian-speaking world (not only Russia, but all of CIS). This region is one of the fastest and most dynamically developing in the world...
...
...

Or of course Estonia could just go the way it is now and wait until things boil over to ****.

[tommy00]

You should come to St.Petersburg, it will be like time travel but towards the future :D

Been there lately, didn`t see the future tough.......
Houses in citycenter were nicely painted,......but only from one side,...outer side......you step in to a so-called inneryard and your eyes rolling,...is this really the same house....
Anyway, i like St.Petersburg, it`s a nice city, plenty to do and watch, but future....well......

[Flamming_Python]

Been there lately, didn`t see the future tough.......
Houses in citycenter were nicely painted,......but only from one side,...outer side......you step in to a so-called inneryard and your eyes rolling,...is this really the same house....
Anyway, i like St.Petersburg, it`s a nice city, plenty to do and watch, but future....well......

Yeah, problem its a huge city; too many buildings, so of course you'll find some dumps.

Perhaps I spoke too soon. Come back in 5 years!

[widi243]

Was Czechoslovakia and Poland fighting each other when Poland pinched a bit of Czech land when Germany gobbled it up?

Stalin is dead and is not in charge of Russia now. I am pleased the Russian government seems to have woken up and realised that its place really isn't as a friend to the west... simply because the west has no friends. Saddam was the wests friend and look what they ended up doing to him. Business partner and trade partner and political partner in things of mutual interest but otherwise seperate entities that are rivals in some areas and same minded on others... and that is all they can be.

Hell... even the like minded western EU and the equally like minded NATO rarely fully agrees on most things. Why hold Russia to a higher standard than that?

Maybe Stalin is dead but his grandsons apparently not and still in charge of Russia :roll:

[Alexandr]

Maybe Stalin is dead but his grandsons apparently not and still in charge of Russia :roll:

Do you ever know who Stalin was in 1917?National Affairs Komissar,man who gives Estionia first time indipendance after 600 years of German/Sweden/Denmark/Poland/Russian ocuppations.

[LineDoggie]

Do you ever know who Stalin was in 1917?National Affairs Komissar,man who gives Estionia first time indipendance after 600 years of German/Sweden/Denmark/Poland/Russian ocuppations.

And also Person who invaded and occupied Estonia in 1940, no?


Also person who ordered deportations of Estonians in 1941 and 1949, no?

[ilmakas]

Do you ever know who Stalin was in 1917?National Affairs Komissar,man who gives Estionia first time indipendance after 600 years of German/Sweden/Denmark/Poland/Russian ocuppations.


Estonia gained its independence through war.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_War_of_Independence)

[Alexandr]

Estonia gained its independence through war.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_War_of_Independence)

Actually no,that was not war for indipendance,but war for disputed terretories,Narva area.
Soviet forces has 7000 involved soldiers in that conflict,and Estionian indipendance was not even disputed from Soviet side.


And also Person who invaded and occupied Estonia in 1940, no?


Also person who ordered deportations of Estonians in 1941 and 1949, no?

Way they spend freedom in late 1930s - became totalitarian dictatorship wiht Reich backup,doesnot make them look like Switzerland.

[LineDoggie]

Way they spend freedom in late 1930s - became totalitarian dictatorship wiht Reich backup,doesnot make them look like Switzerland.

Heavens! You mean to tell me one Totalitarian Dictator (Stalin) decided this guy was a Totalitarian?

Konstantin Pats

"He presided over two more governments and was elected on 21 October (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_21) 1933 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933) to became the head of the transitional administration to the new, presidential, constitution. In this capacity he declared a state of national emergency in the whole country (a partial state of emergency had applied to certain parts of Estonia since 1918) and began a thorough state reform during which he accomplished political ideas, which he had been advocating for several decades. During this time, many new buildings, mainly for new schools of all kinds and for government and self-government institutions, and also bridges and power plants were built. Regarding the constitution of 1934 too dictatorial, he organised the passing of a new constitution through a plebiscite and a National Constituent Assembly. During the transition to his constitution he became Riigihoidja (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riigihoidja) (President-Regent) of Estonia on 3 September (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_3)1937 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937) and President of the Republic, under the new constitution, on 24 April (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_24)1938 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938). His constitution was based on the contemporary Polish and Belgian constitutions. He also admired the British two-chamber parliament. This time was nostalgically remembered as an era of independence, economic success and prosperity during the following fifty years of Soviet occupation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_SSR)"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_P%C3%A4ts

http://www.iub.edu/~bafsa/articles.html

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,759198,00.html

"After 20 years of vigorous rule, Pats gave his country on Jan. 1 a new democratic constitution. It promises democratic rights to the nation's 1,100,000 people (88% of them Estonians), guarantees minority rights to Russians (8%) and Germans (1½%), disestablishes the church (most Estonians are Lutherans).
Under Pats the number of new Estonian farms carved out of the estates of former German aristocrats has now reached 60,000. Some 40,000 small Estonian farmers have risen from tenants to full ownership. Last week, two days after celebrating Estonia's 20th anniversary, Pats won, hands down, the first general election held under Estonia's new constitution"




Yeah, sounds like a regular Satan.....:roll:

[GazB]

Also person who ordered deportations of Estonians in 1941 and 1949, no?

Damn! ... no wonder Stalin is revered by some Russians. He was able to order the deportation of Estonians while Estonia was in Nazi hands from 1941-1944... or was the siege of Leningrad all made up and the Soviets held all of the baltics all that time?

After looking at the way the Baltic countries supported the nazis... they had a 96% kill rate on their Jewish populations and many Baltic nations' soldiers were in demand in the German death camps because they had the right attitude. Sorry... no sympathy there...

[LineDoggie]

Damn! ... no wonder Stalin is revered by some Russians. He was able to order the deportation of Estonians while Estonia was in Nazi hands from 1941-1944... or was the siege of Leningrad all made up and the Soviets held all of the baltics all that time?

After looking at the way the Baltic countries supported the nazis... they had a 96% kill rate on their Jewish populations and many Baltic nations' soldiers were in demand in the German death camps because they had the right attitude. Sorry... no sympathy there...

Geez are you really that Obtuse?Ok, on the basis your just horrible with google, try this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Estonia#June_deportation_of_1941Basically, Deportations started on June 14th, 1941: On June 14, 1941, and the following two days, 9,254-10,861 people, mostly urban, of them over 5,000 women and over 2,500 children under 16[3][4][5][6], 439 Jews (more than 10 percent of the Estonian Jewish population)[7] were deported, mostly to Kirov Oblast, Novosibirsk Oblast or prisons. There hundreds were shot. Only 4,331 persons have ever returned to Estonia. 11,102 people were to be deported from Estonia according to the order of June 13, but some managed to escape[6]. The operation affected Latvia and Lithuania at the same time. Few weeks later, approximately 1,000 people were arrested on Saaremaa for deportation, but the Great Patriotic War started for the Soviet Union and a considerable part of the prisoners were freed by the advancing German forces

[monty1]

Damn! ... no wonder Stalin is revered by some Russians. He was able to order the deportation of Estonians while Estonia was in Nazi hands from 1941-1944... or was the siege of Leningrad all made up and the Soviets held all of the baltics all that time?

After looking at the way the Baltic countries supported the nazis... they had a 96% kill rate on their Jewish populations and many Baltic nations' soldiers were in demand in the German death camps because they had the right attitude. Sorry... no sympathy there...
read about Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, and a bit about history, before you start posting, might improve your knowledge...

[monty1]

Actually no,that was not war for indipendance,but war for disputed terretories,Narva area.
Soviet forces has 7000 involved soldiers in that conflict,and Estionian indipendance was not even disputed from Soviet side.



Way they spend freedom in late 1930s - became totalitarian dictatorship wiht Reich backup,doesnot make them look like Switzerland.
Riiight, the link obiviously did not work , so i re-post it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_war_of_independence

And the during the 1930-s the orientation was towards british, and Päts conned the Presidency from vapsid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaps_Movement ) who in turn were not facist, but more authoritarian and nationalist . Päts goverment has been described as Authoritarian Democracy, something a russian might understand :)

But it´s pointless to post this actually, because the wiki obviously does not open in your computer....

[Kangars]

Back to Estonian economy. Is it still alive? What is your inflation rate? Is house market still falling?
From the beginning of this year my latvian company lost all customers from Estonia.

[ilmakas]

Back to Estonian economy. Is it still alive? What is your inflation rate? Is house market still falling?
From the beginning of this year my latvian company lost all customers from Estonia.

The import has dwindled, but the export is still growing, which is a good sign. Latest prediction published by Ministry of Finance is that economy will grow 2.6% in 2009. Swedish banks predict 2.0% growth. I guess we will have to wait and see.

But thanks for your concerns. :)

[Vympel]

I think biggest threat is Lithuania. That country have largest army in region, and forces capable to withtake Estonia in weeks.Plus, in Lithuania we have ex soviet nuclear silos(Soviets forgot about them and left) and we are allmost capable to launch nuclear attack from Ignalina

[Codazo]

I think biggest threat is Lithuania. That country have largest army in region, and forces capable to withtake Estonia in weeks.Plus, in Lithuania we have ex soviet nuclear silos(Soviets forgot about them and left) and we are allmost capable to launch nuclear attack from Ignalina
:) Finland is going to storm down the golf to help Eesti brothers ... who's gonna help you???p-)

[Vympel]

:) Finland is going to storm down the golf to help Eesti brothers ... who's gonna help you???p-)

Time:) Time is enemy for "hot temperament" guys from the northp-)

btw, im now considering about writing a book. It will be about fights for Brighton beach authonomy.

[Revolveri]

:) Finland is going to storm down the golf to help Eesti brothers ... who's gonna help you???p-)

Oh don't count on that. Our government is sometimes worse than the Swiss when it comes to neutrality. I don't think they've even decided yet what to do or say to Russia about the conflict with Georgia or whether to do or say anything at all.

However if Estonia was attacked, I'm sure many ordinary Finns would be ready to help them whatever way they can (at least send economical aid) including myself.

[Codazo]

Oh don't count on that. Our government is sometimes worse than the Swiss when it comes to neutrality. I don't think they've even decided yet what to do or say to Russia about the conflict with Georgia or whether to do or say anything at all.

However if Estonia was attacked, I'm sure many ordinary Finns would be ready to help them whatever way they can (at least send economical aid) including myself.
:-( Man after all the cheap beers , haircuts and what not you guys get in Estonia you'd only send economical aid if Evil Lithuanians would attack...
Next time I'm in Helsinki I'm not tipping in bars or restaurants. You backstabbers you!!! :-*$


roflroflroflrofl

(BTW THIS IS A JOKE SRY FOR OT)

[monty1]

I think biggest threat is Lithuania. That country have largest army in region, and forces capable to withtake Estonia in weeks.Plus, in Lithuania we have ex soviet nuclear silos(Soviets forgot about them and left) and we are allmost capable to launch nuclear attack from Ignalina
Ignalina is a bomb alright, just very deployable :)
And besides, it´s rather easy to stop lithuanians, you just have to light all traffic lights at the same time, they have to stop and salute every time they pass one :). OK, that was lame, i admit...

a latvian joke -
Latvia and Lithuania are in war. Latvian general calls Est.general and asks : ´You guys have 2 tanks. Could we loan one from you for a moment, OK?´
´No, we can´t give you 2 , just 1´
´Why so?´
´See, Lithuanians already borrowed the other one´

[Codazo]

Latvia and Lithuania are in war. Latvian general calls Est.general and asks : ´You guys have 2 tanks. Could we loan one from you for a moment, OK?´
´No, we can´t give you 2 , just 1´
´Why so?´
´See, Lithuanians already borrowed the other one´
LOL:):):) thats a good one.

[Revolveri]

Where the hell did this Estonia vs Latvia vs Lithuania speculation come up from :| ? Aren't they like sibling states with very close ties?

I can't imagine any of them attacking each other :D.

[Laworkerbee]

I just left Estonia, it is doing quite well (as long as you don't leave the outskirts of Tallinn anyways).

Central Tallinn, taken last week by yours truly
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k141/laworkerbee/IMG_0358.jpg

[lightfire]

Where the hell did this Estonia vs Latvia vs Lithuania speculation come up from :| ? Aren't they like sibling states with very close ties?

I can't imagine any of them attacking each other :D.

it takes time for fins to get the jokes, even lame ones.

as for tanks - Latvia has 3 of them. Estonia, AFAIK, none. Lithuania - one working. Without firing cannon though. Thus we can see, who has more offensive weapons. Conclusion...

[Loki77]

Two Estonian farms establish 'Soviet republic,' seek recognition

16:26 | 03/ 09/ 2008

ST. PETERSBURG, September 3 (RIA Novosti) - Two farms in north-east Estonia have joined forces to declare an independent "Soviet republic" and intend to seek Russia's recognition, a Russian communist organization said on Wednesday.

"We no longer want to live in bourgeois Estonia, where nobody cares about the common people...with raging unemployment and corruption, and where everything depends on NATO and the Americans," Russian communists from St Petersburg, who are assisting the 'republic,' quoted its founder, Andres Tamm, as saying.

Residents and founders of the 'Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic' have already formed a national 'Soviet government,' a police force, and have begun demarcating the state's borders.

Meanwhile, residents of the republic claim that the "bourgeois" Estonian government has sent a "squad of relatives of Estonian Nazi SS veterans" to regain control over the breakaway territory.

The republic is currently drafting a treaty of friendship with Russia to be submitted to the Russian president in the next few days.

Estonia is a former Soviet republic and a current member of both NATO and the EU.
(http://http://en.rian.ru/world/20080903/116519145.html)
Source (http://en.rian.ru/world/20080903/116519145.html)

http://www.kplo.ru/images/stories/2008/esr1.jpg

http://www.kplo.ru/images/stories/2008/esr9.jpg

[kalkun]

Post it to humor section, according to Estonian Foreign Ministry it's a fake news and there are some certain reasons to believe that.

[Revolveri]

Hehe they look like rednecks, only soviet rednecks :D

[monty1]

Their proclamation uses old soviet stamp-sentences, that the commies still obviously love. Besides there are 2 typos in 4 words :) .

[STEPAN1983]

I have a strong feeling that this is fake :D

[Gzippo]

Just another estonian joke.. :roll:

So far the best estonian joke i've seen is the russian restaurant 'TROIKA' where waiters doesn't "speak" a word in russian :).. however 'russian' food was excellent.. woot

[Turhapuro]

Finnish writer: Estonia to lose independence in 10 years

Finnish writer Johan Bäckman forecasts that Estonia has only ten years of independence left.
Johan Bäcman is part of 5th column in Finland. I personally think him as a traitor.

[domokun]

Johan Bäcman is part of 5th column in Finland. I personally think him as a traitor.

x2 I agree on Pacman.

BTW. Nice avatar, Nemesis FTW.:)

[Loki77]

Johan Bäcman is part of 5th column in Finland. I personally think him as a traitor.

Are he a swedish-speaking finn (finlandsvensk)??


Johan Bäckman sound a very swedish name, for sure!

[pekka elo]

Are he a swedish-speaking finn (finlandsvensk)??

Johan Bäckman sound a very swedish name, for sure!

Not sure, but very many finnish-speakers have swedish names too. Their ancestry is probably finnish-swedish.

[Itamajus]

Just another estonian joke.. :roll:

So far the best estonian joke i've seen is the russian restaurant 'TROIKA' where waiters doesn't "speak" a word in russian :).. however 'russian' food was excellent.. woot

Why should they?
Would you like that in a chinese restaurant all waitreses would speak with you chinese?
Now STFU and eat your borsch ;)