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Lazy Lob
08-27-2008, 01:33 PM
Man convicted over Shia flogging

A devout Shia Muslim has been convicted of child cruelty after forcing two boys to beat themselves during a religious ceremony, in an unprecedented case.

The jury at Manchester Crown Court found 44-year-old Syed Mustafa Zaidi guilty of two counts of child cruelty.

The boys, aged 13 and 15, were forced to beat themselves with a zanjeer whip, with five curved blades.

Zaidi, of Station Road, Eccles, Salford, also flogged himself during the ceremony in January.

The court heard the boys admit that they had wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress, and not with the curved blade whip.

This is a part of our religion
Syed Mustafa Zaidi

The teenagers said that they had flogged themselves with a smaller whip from the age of six in Pakistan.

The Ashura ceremony takes place during Muharram, the first month of the Islamic calendar and commemorates the death of Husayn, a central figure in the Shia faith.

Zaidi admitted he had asked the boys if they wanted to beat themselves and allowed them to use the bladed whip.

He denied his actions were wrong, saying: "This is a part of our religion."

The 14-year-old boy, who was 13 at the time, said Zaidi told them both: "Start doing it, start doing it."

The child told the court: "We said 'we don't want to do it'."

He said he saw Zaidi flogging himself before washing blood from the whip and handing it to the 15-year-old boy.

'Emotional time'

He said Zaidi was "pulling him and pushing him", telling him to "keep doing it" and telling people "this is a sad moment and look he's not doing it".

The boy said Zaidi continued to pressure the older teenager to whip himself.

He said the 15-year-old boy "swung it once or twice and said 'I don't want to do it anymore'."

Zaidi told the court: "It was an emotional time and the children were happy, they asked for it. No one forced anyone.

"If I'd known this would be the result of breaking the law I would never have done it."


This is a very unusual case and the first of its kind to be prosecuted by the
CPS in England and Wales

Carol Jackson, CPS

The boys both received multiple lacerations to their backs, mainly superficial, with several deeper cuts.

Supt Nadeem Butt, of Greater Manchester Police, said: "This man not only abused the vulnerability of these children but also went against the wishes of his own community, as well as knowingly breaking the law.

"The sensitivities this case raises - both legal and cultural - are significant."

Carol Jackson, of the Greater Manchester Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), said the prosecution "was not an attack upon the practices or ceremonies of Shia Muslims".

"Indeed, the prosecution relied as part of its evidence upon the president of the local Shia community centre," Ms Jackson said.

"We are satisfied that, given the age of the children involved, the coercion employed by Syed Mustafa Zaidi, who did not accept that he was wrong, and the possibility of such an incident occurring again, the decision to prosecute by the Crown Prosecution Service was the correct one.

"This is a very unusual case and the first of its kind to be prosecuted by the CPS in England and Wales."

Zaidi will be sentenced on 24 September.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/manchester/7584446.stm

Published: 2008/08/27 17:24:51 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

khukuri
08-27-2008, 02:41 PM
Well done, but if he wants to flog himself by all means.

Calanen
08-28-2008, 10:13 AM
"We are satisfied that, given the age of the children involved, the coercion employed by Syed Mustafa Zaidi, who did not accept that he was wrong, and the possibility of such an incident occurring again, the decision to prosecute by the Crown Prosecution Service was the correct one.


Wtf - so if he had said 'Sorry' they wouldnt have charged him? Moonbattery personified.

Calanen
08-28-2008, 10:23 AM
Shia Muslim convicted of child cruelty after forcing two boys to flog themselves

· Wooden implement with five curved blades used
· First case of its kind to be prosecuted by CPS


Riazat Butt (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/riazatbutt), religious affairs correspondent
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian),
Thursday August 28 2008
Article history

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5551/kandahar460x276bs5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Shia Muslims in central Kandahar, Afghanistan, beat themselves in a more extreme version of the ceremony. Photograph: Adam Butler/AP


A Shia Muslim was convicted of child cruelty yesterday after he forced two boys to flog themselves during a religious ritual.

Syed Mustafa Zaidi, a warehouse supervisor, told the boys, aged 13 and 15, to beat themselves with a zanjeer zani, a wooden-handled implement containing five curved blades used when commemorating the death of Hussain, grandson of Muhammad and one of the most important figures in Shia Islam. Zaidi is due to be sentenced on September 24.

Manchester crown court heard how Zaidi, 44, flagellated himself at an event held in January in Manchester until his back was bloody and cut. Others at the event also flogged themselves. Some of those present, fearing Zaidi would seriously harm himself, asked him to calm down. Zaidi agreed, only to turn his attention to the two boys.

The 14-year-old, who was 13 at the time, told the jury that neither he nor the other boy wanted to injure themselves. He said Zaidi was insistent with the older boy, "pulling him and pushing him, 'keep doing it', telling people 'this is a sad moment and look, he's not doing it'.

"He goes, 'I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it'. He kept pressuring him, make him do the knife thing, pulling him, trying to get his T-shirt off, pulling and pushing him. He was saying, 'just do it, just do it'." He said the 15-year-old "swung it once or twice and said 'I don't want to do it any more'." The older boy was then pulled away by another man.

After the ceremony, the boys went home to their mother, who noticed several deep wounds on their backs and multiple slash wounds. She took them to Manchester Royal infirmary and the matter was reported to the police.

The boys, who cannot be named for legal reasons, admitted they wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress and not using Zaidi's zanjeer zani. They also said they had flogged themselves with a smaller zanjeer zani from the age of six in Pakistan.

Carol Jackson, for the Crown Prosecution Service, said the prosecution was not an attack upon the practices or ceremonies of Shia Muslims, adding that the prosecution relied partly on evidence given by the president of the local Shia community centre. It was the first case of its kind to be prosecuted by the CPS.

[Gotta put that dhimmi bit in there and add the multiculturalist spin to taste]

For Shia Muslims the death of Hussain is a period of intense mourning, leading some to beat and whip themselves. The practice is not compulsory and some Shia authorities prohibit it, while others say it should be done only if certain conditions are met.

Safdar Zia, general secretary of the Jaffria Islamic Centre, said Shia Muslims in Manchester would now try to work with the police and the CPS towards a code of practice: "We are not above the law."

[Whose law would that be - Allah's or the English Crown's? I wonder.]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/28/islam.religion/print

Lokos
08-28-2008, 10:27 AM
Volenti non fit injuria, eh Calanen?

L.

Calanen
08-28-2008, 10:30 AM
Volenti non fit injuria, eh Calanen?

L.

Think the volenti was a bit more like extorqueo.

Lokos
08-28-2008, 10:46 AM
Think the volenti was a bit more like extorqueo.

Indeed. This tradition is a bit insane.

L.

khukuri
08-28-2008, 11:14 AM
Indeed. This tradition is a bit insane.

L.

The majority just put their hand gently on their chest. Been to a massive amounts of shiites ceremonies and never ever seen anyone mildly hurt them selves. But of course there are extremists everywhere.

Angelino
08-28-2008, 11:18 AM
Indeed. This tradition is a bit insane.

L.
If they have to flog something, they should try flogging the bishop instead ;). (Non-english speakers, google for "flogging the bishop" to find out what it means :D)

Revolveri
08-28-2008, 11:24 AM
I havent looked it up but I think it's got something to do with a male appendage. What is phallic about a bishop is the shape of his hat. Correct? :P

Sorry, I love guessing games.

Lokos
08-28-2008, 01:33 PM
The majority just put their hand gently on their chest. Been to a massive amounts of shiites ceremonies and never ever seen anyone mildly hurt them selves. But of course there are extremists everywhere.

Fair enough. As you say, there are extremists under every flag.

L.

oldsoak
08-28-2008, 03:37 PM
If they have to flog something, they should try flogging the bishop instead ;). (Non-english speakers, google for "flogging the bishop" to find out what it means :D)

If you are talking about literally flogging the Archbishop of Canterbury, I could possibly agree.
:-P
The other act makes you blind :lol:

The Balkan
08-28-2008, 03:50 PM
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5551/kandahar460x276bs5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)





Arrrrghhhhh.

Reminds me of the Chinese putting those blades through their mouths, and the Filipinos recreating the crucifiction.