KALASHNIKOV prototypes

[jhon]

The post for the KALASHNIKOV prototypes that preceded the AK47.

[jhon]

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[jhon]

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[jhon]

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[Troubadour]

It appears the bolt was at one point in its creation put on a more convenient left side. I wonder why they switched it to the right side of the rifle?

[mcsuperfly]

It appears the bolt was at one point in its creation put on a more convenient left side. I wonder why they switched it to the right side of the rifle?
I'm guessing it was so it could be part of the ejection port and therefore less moving parts. That or Kalashnikov just moved it for the hell of it. He can do stuff like that.

[jhon]

I'm guessing it was so it could be part of the ejection port and therefore less moving parts. That or Kalashnikov just moved it for the hell of it. He can do stuff like that.

Most rifles eject to the right side because most people are right handed.Rifles like the mp44 have the operating handle on the left and the ejection port on the right.The ak uses it all on the same side,making it practical,in design terms.The use of a left or right side operating handle has to do with the practical field use of the weapon.Left side,like most of the german weapons like the mp40/mp44/g3,the shooter holds the grip and trigger with the right hand,ready to fire.Right side,the shooter lets go of the grip and trigger to operate the handle.Why not just move it all to the left side,making it practical for all?you ask.
I have no f...ing idea.

[jhon]

"After WWII, as General Designer of small arms for the Soviet Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Army), his design subordinates included the Germans Hugo Schmeisser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Schmeisser) and Werner Grüner (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Werner_Gr%C3%BCner&action=edit&redlink=1) (of MG 42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_42) fame) and a pioneer in sheet metal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_metal) embossing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embossing) technology in the 1950s."

..from...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Kalashnikov

[budgie]

Most rifles eject to the right side because most people are right handed.Rifles like the mp44 have the operating handle on the left and the ejection port on the right.The ak uses it all on the same side,making it practical,in design terms.The use of a left or right side operating handle has to do with the practical field use of the weapon.Left side,like most of the german weapons like the mp40/mp44/g3,the shooter holds the grip and trigger with the right hand,ready to fire.Right side,the shooter lets go of the grip and trigger to operate the handle.Why not just move it all to the left side,making it practical for all?you ask.
I have no f...ing idea.

The rifle was also designed to be simple, easy to strip and maintain and dirt cheap in production costs. Fewer working parts means less stuff to break and a few more weapons get produced within budget.

[Rynnäkkökivääri]

That first pic really shows that he did get alot of his ideas from the Garand. Thanks for posting

[jhon]

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[BlackFlag]

That first pic really shows that he did get alot of his ideas from the Garand. Thanks for posting

I think it's more likely ans SKS influenced design.

[Kocur]

I think it's more likely ans SKS influenced design.

They may seem related on the outside, which is rather natural as both were presumably developed to meed the same requirement, but internally they are very different. And indeed Kalashnikov's semi auto carbine of 1944 was deeply influenced by M1 Garand. Not only in how rotary bolt and bolt carrier co-work (cam on the bolt carrier and lug on bolt, right behind bolt face, on top, instead of on the right side as in M1) but also in feeding, as the carbine was fed by two row clips.
Whatever other guys did on the way from the 1944 carbine to AK - and it is certain, that Kalashnikov used lots of help, but rather from other Soviets - the heart of the weapon, i.e. bolt/bolt carrier arrangement remained the same.

[Bro Jangles]

the bolt of the top one is similar to the type 81.

[jhon]

AK47 1952 rifle manual download.
http://weapon.at.ua/blog/2008-07-20-86

[wiking]

interesting pics.

wish i could read Russian, that manual looks interesting.

[jhon]

...ak1....

[Aldo Penniconi]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56858&d=1220872751

Russian Tommy Gun:lol:

[asch]

Russian Tommy Gun:lol:yup, M. Kalashnikov first gun project was Tommy-gun based.
only lately, with a team of talented egineers, born AK series.

[maw]

I'm guessing it was so it could be part of the ejection port and therefore less moving parts. That or Kalashnikov just moved it for the hell of it. He can do stuff like that.

i've seen loads of ak's with a charging handle on the left side. it doesn't add any additional moving parts. there's even an ak on arf (in the ak section) that one of the magpul guys converted to a non-reciprocating left side charging handle. i've been thinking of getting it done to my ak-104gery.

[jhon]

...the 2 levers,safety and fire selector?

[REMOV]

...the 2 levers,safety and fire selector?Yes, in the AK-46 No.1 (sometimes also called AK-1) the safety and fire selector levers were separable.

[Asheren]

Most rifles eject to the right side because most people are right handed.Rifles like the mp44 have the operating handle on the left and the ejection port on the right.The ak uses it all on the same side,making it practical,in design terms.The use of a left or right side operating handle has to do with the practical field use of the weapon.Left side,like most of the german weapons like the mp40/mp44/g3,the shooter holds the grip and trigger with the right hand,ready to fire.Right side,the shooter lets go of the grip and trigger to operate the handle.Why not just move it all to the left side,making it practical for all?you ask.
I have no f...ing idea.

Exactly it is making chambering round faster you can unsafe and chamber round in one move. It is also easier to perform safety procedures at end of duty in field using hip to support the rifle and holding it with left hand. Not to mention that AK is quite heavy so holding it like mp40 would be impractical you would be forced to lower the weapon to chamber round when you are aiming it at someone.

[Jippo]

Exactly it is making chambering round faster you can unsafe and chamber round in one move. It is also easier to perform safety procedures at end of duty in field using hip to support the rifle and holding it with left hand. Not to mention that AK is quite heavy so holding it like mp40 would be impractical you would be forced to lower the weapon to chamber round when you are aiming it at someone.

There are techniques to go around these little nuisances.

[jhon]

Exactly it is making chambering round faster you can unsafe and chamber round in one move. It is also easier to perform safety procedures at end of duty in field using hip to support the rifle and holding it with left hand. Not to mention that AK is quite heavy so holding it like mp40 would be impractical you would be forced to lower the weapon to chamber round when you are aiming it at someone.

...ak47 Weight: 4.3 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (9.5 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...g3 Weight: 4.4 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (9.7 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...mp44/stg44 Weight:5.22 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (11.5 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...mp40 Weight:4 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (8.8 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...stg45 Weight:5.22 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (11.5 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmgewehr_44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP40
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG45

[Jippo]

Well, AKM is even lighter...

[jhon]

...can one move the ak trigger,whent the rifle is on safe?In rifles like the Garand m1,the the safty blocks the bolt and trigger,is it the same whit the ak?

Thank you.

[Mate]

...can one move the ak trigger,whent the rifle is on safe?In rifles like the Garand m1,the safety blocks the bolt and trigger,is it the same whit the ak?

Thank you.
Yes..........

[Asheren]

...ak47 Weight: 4.3 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (9.5 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...g3 Weight: 4.4 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (9.7 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...mp44/stg44 Weight:5.22 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (11.5 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...mp40 Weight:4 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (8.8 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))
...stg45 Weight:5.22 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) (11.5 lb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_G3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmgewehr_44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP40
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG45

My fault i should have recheck weight before posting.
Still a lot of thing would be trublesome at best with it on the left side.
-Reloading in ****e position would require to turn entire rifle to chamber a round.
-Fast grab from shoulder. Charging handle would more than propably get stuck in uniform making whole thing impossible.
-Ceremonial hold would require to be changed unless you want to have handle poking you in the chest for a 2-3+ hours sometimes. Switch to carring on the back wouldn't be possible in a way you can do it with current one.
-With current setup you can lay AK on the ground right side up if you have no other option and not worry that sand or dirt get in to the chamber.
-Safety also would be lower because with right side chambering handle you need to remove finger from the trigger to chamber a round.
-I am not sure that "slam reload"(slaming a buttstock aginst ground to chamber a round) would be possible with handle on the left.

[jhon]

...i am just not getting it,how does the safety lever fisicly act with the safety pice.what does that wen the safety lever goes down makes the safety pice go dawn...how do they touch,i am just not getting it.:cantbeli:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd297/armeiro1/646818.jpg
Sorry and thank you.

[Jippo]

Does this pic help at all?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Jippo01/Guns/pari4.jpg

[jhon]

...no,in your image i can see the safety lever/fire selector,but where is the safety pice,the one on front of the hammer?
Does someone have the rifle,to put me out of misery.:)
Wen the safety lever/fire selector goes up and down,who does it connect whit the safety pice on the front,

[jhon]

...ak rifle mechanism training thing...

[Jippo]

...no,in your image i can see the safety lever/fire selector,but where is the safety pice,the one on front of the hammer?
Does someone have the rifle,to put me out of misery.:)
Wen the safety lever/fire selector goes up and down,who does it connect whit the safety pice on the front,

It doesn't connect with the piece in front, it is a seperate part with seperate function. The one in the rear is manipulated by hand, the one in the front is manipulated with the bolt carrier. The front one's only function is not to allow the hammer to fall if the bolt is out of battery.

The rifles above do not have that part at all. (they're semis)

[jhon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQe864rGLyk&feature=related

...second 0:24,hammer slides under the front pice.
...second 1:14,bolt goes back,front pice slides over the hammer,blocking it.
...second 1:39,bolt goes to the front,pulling front pice over hammer,unblocking it.


...is that it?:)

[Jippo]

Yes, that is it.........

[jhon]

http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo002/bo002.htm

[jhon]

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[jhon]

KALASHNIKOV mp
http://www.sinopa.ee/kalashnikov/r9899/ruzjo0199/ruz019930/ru019930.htm

[koalorka]

The AK was most obviously patterned after the M1 Garand. The trigger is practically identical. The rotarty bolt is also very similar.