Random Military Questions

[bob, just bob]

I've decided to make a thread where people can post random military questions. I decided to make this thread because I always have questions about how the military works and when google doesn't work I have to make a thread, but I don't think some questions are worth a thread. So in this thread people can answer the question, and once its answered someone else can ask a question.

first question: What is the organization of an infantry platoon in a heavy brigade combat team? I know the usual infantry platoon is 3 squads of 9, LT, and a weapons squad, but it a appears that a heavy platoon has 4 Bradleys. So if there are 4 bradleys how do they fit 36 men? If i'm correct a bradley has it's crew and 6 passenger seats so that means it can only fit 24 men.

[AkerWalker]

Is this the answer?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-7j/Appa.htm#top

or maybe this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-71/appa.htm

[Britboy]

Interesting how you have a squad of nine and not eight like a section would have.
Is the Squad Commander not part of the fireteams? i.e. he has 2 fireteam comds below him and does not personally lead a fireteam (3 other blokes) himself?

[WARPIG]

I'm all for consolidating the random comments and questions... just see that this doesn't turn into a "too stupid and lazy to friggin look for myself" thread. Walts and Posers need not post here. If you are looking for some pointers on how to out airsoft the guys from accounting, this ain't your thread either.

[orionhawk]

So if there are 4 bradleys how do they fit 36 men? If i'm correct a bradley has it's crew and 6 passenger seats so that means it can only fit 24 men.
wouldn't the crew count toward the "36"?


also, I think this thread is an excellent idea, as long as people pay attention to what WARPIG said... (like that is actually gonna happen).

[bob, just bob]

i'm not an airsofter, I just play alot of military games and i'm curious about alot of stuff. I've tried google and wiki, and they only have information on larger units.

[Mastermind]

I'm still trying to figure out why there are only sixty tanks in a tank division. When I was in, five tanks made a platoon and four platoons, plus one tank for command made a company...that's twenty tanks. So a division of tanks is only three companies?

My info on the 60 tank division is a book called Tanks of the World by David Miller.

Perhaps someone can set me and David straight.

How many tanks actually make up an Armored division? Would different countries have different orgs for their divisions? So how would you know what kind of strengths you're up against if they just number their divisions willy-nilly?

[AkerWalker]

from the same source:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/17-15/chp1.htm

[SpeedyHedgehog]

I'm still trying to figure out why there are only sixty tanks in a tank division. When I was in, five tanks made a platoon and four platoons, plus one tank for command made a company...that's twenty tanks. So a division of tanks is only three companies?

My info on the 60 tank division is a book called Tanks of the World by David Miller.

Perhaps someone can set me and David straight.

How many tanks actually make up an Armored division? Would different countries have different orgs for their divisions? So how would you know what kind of strengths you're up against if they just number their divisions willy-nilly?

When I was a tank platoon leader and XO in Germany (1983-85) the US Army underwent a transformation called Division 86. Prior to this there were 3 tank companies in a battalion, 3 platoons in a company and 5 tanks in a platoon. There was also a CSC (Combat Support Company) with the mortars, scouts and an AVLB.

Division 86 did away with the CSC (the mortars and scouts went to HHC, the AVLB disappeared). A new tank company was formed (Delta) by reducing tank platoons to four tanks. So that made a company of 14 tanks (3- 4 tank platoons, a tank for the CO and the Blade tank (a tank with a dozer blade) for the XO. So a battalion now had 58 tanks (4 x 14 tanks plus the Bn XO's tank and the Bn Cdr's tank).

I don't know where he came up with a 60 tank division. At that time 1st Armored Division had 6 tank battalions x 58 =348 tanks.

[bob, just bob]

from the same source:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/17-15/chp1.htm

thnk you sir

[Mastermind]

Thanks, SpeeyH. That's what I figured that there had to be more. I thought that perhaps it was a misprint ...they left a zero off and they meant 600 tanks to a division.Still, around 350 tanks to a division seems like plenty...but probably not on WWII scale. I see now, these things change over time.

In my Cav outfit, we had seven tracks to a platoon; Five scouts, (21-24 and 27) a platoon sgt (25) and a platoon leader (26)track (I was TC of 22). The tank platoons we worked with occassionally, all had five tanks to a platoon. Now this was in 1967-68. I imagine these orgs change from nation to nation, too...something I have not studied. But, your comment gave me a much better pricture of what "Armored Division" means in the US Army.

[Dan2004]

Why do I often find myself wishing I was a SPC again? p-)

Missing my sham-shield,

Dan

[Britboy]

I think it is more likely to be 4 tanks, or even 3, to a platoon/troop now, as opposed to 5.

Another thing is, lots of units peacetime numbers change when they go to war. i.e. a Bn can receive an extra Coy. Not sure how it works with Cavalry but maybe instead of the Regt receiving another Sqn, that filters down to 1 extra tank per Troop?

[Dominique]

There are currently three basic types of units in the Army. An Infantry Brigade Combat Team, and Stryker Brigade Combat Team, or a Heavy Brigade Combat Team. Do a google search and it'll give you the breakdown of how they're organized in peace time. When a brigade, or one of its battalions, will be organized according to the mission it's going to be performing, or the area it's operating in. I've seen some brigades deploy with as little as two battalions and some support units to up to six maneuver battalions and dozens of CS or CSS battalions and companies.

[Mastermind]

Ah...the flexible organization command system. Now I get the idea that it may be designed to organize according to the need. That kind of makes sense. Corporations do it. Why not the military?

[Dominique]

Basically they mix and match units as needed to form a task force. My old unit (a Cav Squadron) had a signal unit, Navy Sea Bees and additional medical and maintenance personnel (from the Brigade Support Battalion). The unit I'm with now (an Infantry Bn) has an active duty transportation company, and a active maintenance company attached to us. Were detached form the rest of the brigade and assigned to a Corps support group, that's responsible for running convoys in a sector that's controlled by the Marines.

[Jippo]

I think it is more likely to be 4 tanks, or even 3, to a platoon/troop now, as opposed to 5.

3 tanks per platoon is the Russian way, I think all western armies have 4 tanks per platoon so that it can be divided into two mutually supported pairs.

[Erik2a4]

Interesting how you have a squad of nine and not eight like a section would have.
Is the Squad Commander not part of the fireteams? i.e. he has 2 fireteam comds below him and does not personally lead a fireteam (3 other blokes) himself?

No. US Army Squad Leader in most Infantry units I'm familiar with have two fireteams (Alpha and Bravo) underneath them. Squad Leader is TO&E as as Staff Sergeant, Team Leaders are Sergeants. He does not directly lead his own team.

In practice, though, it's up to whatever he has at hand.

That's the light side. As for Stryker or Heavy, those guys will have to chime in.

[tecumseh11]

Why did the US Army decide to ut a .50 cal on their Strykers instead of a turret with cannon (i.e. LAV)?

[orionhawk]

probably because there are some things that don't need a 20-mm explosive shell (or larger) to be adequately handled. especially for urban terrain.

[Mastermind]

I served a .50 in an open top turret...a la ACAV unit M-113 and I found the fighting compartment very accommodating and practically invulnerable to small arms fire. The front shiled was about 5/16 inch...or about 7mm and the sides only about 6 mm face hardened steel. An RPG would of cource penetrate...but, also though the hit would result in horrible wounds, about half the guys hit with RPG would survive since there was really a small amount of schrapnel due to the thin armor. Of course, if you got in the way of the jet, you were done for.

However, the shielded .50 was rapid to deploy, nimble, easy to steady aim and rock solid in rapid fire. A five round burst could be put in a barrel at a hundred yards if you were careful. The impact of the .50 was devastating at the ranges we were hunting, too. You could easily dig out a dirt bunker in half a belt (25 rnds). but, they were hell to reload under fire, since you had to pretty much expose yourself to set a new can on. I developed a sly way of feeding a hundred rounds over the side and into the open ready ammo stowage when necessary without exposing much more than my hands and wrists.

I imagine, with todays modern video sights, computer controll etc, the turret has some advantages. But, that old fassioned hunker down and shoot the hell out of 'em worked pretty well.

[bob, just bob]

Does anyone know of the composition of a USMC Division-Level Recon squad? I know a rifle squad has 12 Marines in 3 fireteams but what about a Recon squad?