Prison abuse and Enlisting.........

[Smoothie104]

Just curious what you guys/girls think about the recent prison abuse scandal.

Do you believe that the soldiers who have been charged acted on their own accord, or do you believe that they were following the orders given to them by their superiors.

Their superiors have also stated that it was Military Intelligence and the CIA who was really running the show.

If if that's the case, what message does it send out to potential recruits?

"Join the Army and become the fall guy?"

Hopefully you realize that you are to be used as a pawn in the Politicians games, but this is different than fighting the enemy.

These kids worked for the military, were doing what they were told to by the military, and are now being imprisoned by the military.

Whaddya think?

[Ichhabe]

Personally I think it is a mix of them both. But it started with the CIA giving "orders". Then after a while things got out of controle.

And just for the record: Any person in any country having any kind of occupasion can be an abuser or a torturer. One of the best torturers in Argentina was a school teacher on elemantary-level. Even priests and nuns can be abusers. It is just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Nobody is actually safe from either being abused or being an abuser.

[BlackRain]

recent prison abuse scandal

What prison abuse scandal?

You mean the illegal actions of a few soldiers that have been completely over-played in the media in an effort to belittle the valiant efforts of hundreds of thousands of coalition members?

There is no real scandal just a manufactured one.

It is a military justice affair that has been distorted for political advantage and to embarrass the hard working men and women serving in Iraq.

[ibstolidude]

Just curious what you guys/girls think about the recent prison abuse scandal.

Do you believe that the soldiers who have been charged acted on their own accord, or do you believe that they were following the orders given to them by their superiors.

Their superiors have also stated that it was Military Intelligence and the CIA who was really running the show.

If if that's the case, what message does it send out to potential recruits?

"Join the Army and become the fall guy?"

Hopefully you realize that you are to be used as a pawn in the Politicians games, but this is different than fighting the enemy.

These kids worked for the military, were doing what they were told to by the military, and are now being imprisoned by the military.

Whaddya think?
NCO Creed:

No one is more professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as "The Backbone of the Army". I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the Military Service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind -- accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain tactically and technically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Noncommissioned Officers, leaders!
US Army creed and values taught to every reqruit and required by the US Army to be worn &/or carried on a ID tag or pocket card.


Loyalty
Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit, and other soldiers. Bearing true faith and allegiance is a matter of believing in and devoting yourself to something or someone. A loyal soldier is one who supports the leadership and stands up for fellow soldiers. By wearing the uniform of the United States Army you are expressing your loyalty. And by doing your share, you show your loyalty to your unit.

Respect - Treat people as they should be treated.

Selfless Service
Put the welfare of the Nation, the Army, and your subordinates
before your own.
Selfless service is larger than just one person. In serving your country, you are doing your duty loyally without thought of recognition or gain. The basic building block of selfless service is the commitment of each team member to go a little further, endure a little longer, and look a little closer to see how he or she can add to the effort.

Duty - Take responsibility and do what's right, no matter how tough it is, even when no one is watching.

Honor - Live up to all the Army values
Character is the most important quality you can find in any person, but especially in a soldier. It is the foundation that will get anybody through anything he may encounter. Reputation is what people think you are; character is what you are- that is the staying power. - Former Sergeant Major of the Army Glen E. Morrell

Integrity -Do what's right, legally and morally
The core of a soldier is moral discipline. It is intertwined with the discipline of physical and mental achievement. It motivates doing on your own what is right without prodding. It is an inner critic that refuses to tolerate less than your best. Total discipline overcomes adversity and physical stamina draws on an inner strength that says "drive on." - Former Sergeant Major of the Army William G. Bainbridge

Personal Courage - Face fear, danger, or adversity
Moral courage, to me, is much more demanding than physical courage. - Former Sergeant Major of the Army Leon L. Van Autreve

- they have no excuse for their behavior.

[American Patriot]

American Patriot's Fatwa 6/8/2004

It's ok to exploit Arab weaknesses (female domination, having *** in front of them, not allowing them to pray) to get information if that person was arrested while doing something illegal.

If a detainee is suspected of crime then he/she should be treated as an innocent person like in the U.S.

[Tane Angle]

What about the actual torture? I am well aware of the difference between coercion and torture. Actual torture took place there. Physical pain-inducing torture. Even wrongful deaths, be they murder or manslaughter. It is unacceptable and inexcuseable. If they were ordered to carry out such things, they should have refused and informed the proper authorities.


It's ok to exploit Arab weaknesses (female domination, having *** in front of them, not allowing them to pray) to get information if that person was arrested while doing something illegal.

If a detainee is suspected of crime then he/she should be treated as an innocent person like in the U.S.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something here, but aren't those two paragraphs mutually exclusive? Do you mean attacks on security forces vs. crimes such as theft, rape, murder, etc.?

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[shrek]

I have seen worse things done to Frat boys in college than what happened to these guys.


We did worse to guys in Afghanistan, not a lot worse but a lot more punishing. We were just smart enough not to take pictures.