TigerStripe camo questions

[Aldo Penniconi]

Before the adoption of the ERDL/81 Woodland camo, Did the US Forces ever consider using TigerStripe for thier standard camouflage? or was this more suited to 'Elite' units?.

Although the US Forces now use the ACU's, I still think the TigerStripe would have been better than the Woodland pattern for standard issue as many claim it blends in great in a number of environments and has a more aggresive look.

[Crewdog]

Well, the Air Force uses it. ;)

[-MOOSE-]

The bad thing about Tiger Stripe, as many other camo patterns, there is too much going on within the pattern itself. The big stripes of black, the green, brown and tan colors are just too mixed up, too busy. Its the same with M81 Woodland and specifically 6-Color Desert, there is too much in the pattern. M81 has the wrong colors for the most part, maybe if you are in a bush or up in a tree it would work but otherwise it is very dark.

ACU sucks, so does the ABU(Air Force Digital Tiger Stripe in ACU colors). It only works of its dirty, really dirty. MARPAT is better, the desert is very good. The colors in the digital pattern seems to blend in with each other, unlike M81, therefore it blends in with the environment better. Woodland MARPAT has that Coyote Brown background which is great because most wooded areas are really brown or even red. The green is for vegetation and the black is to break it all up even more, in my opinion there is too much black, you wont find that in nature. It wouldn't be necessary to add another green but to decrease the amount of black would surely increase the ability to blend. Black will create itself in shadows, forests aren't naturally black, shadows make them blacker.

3-Color Desert is good, the patterns can be too big and too varying. When you have a Khaki base and add, lets say, Coyote Brown, it sticks out. That is what the 6-Color, 3-Color and M81 are designed like, but without the intention to stick out. 3-Color is great, in my opinion.

[shocker_HKG]

Tigerstripe was one of final 3 choices for USMC before MARPAT was picked in final decision.

[Trael]

Tigerstripe was one of final 3 choices for USMC before MARPAT was picked in final decision.

Sorry for OT but what was the another one? Tigerstripe, MARPAT and?

[Murmelmann]

From what I've seen woodland tigerstripe only works really well in places where you have a lot of shadow. Desert tigerstripe on the other hands looks really nice e.g. in a German autumn forest.

[RECON DOC]

I think Tiger stripe should have been chosen for the cool factor alone.
Some of us in my recon plt would use them during OPFOR detail in AK. in the 80's. They actually worked great in timbered areas.

[rrossouw]

Hi Trael

The 3rd pattern was a modified version of the Rhodesian / Zimbabwe pattern.
Sadly it wasn't taken to field testing, I'm guessing political issues with Zim "unselected" it. The same way the All-Over-Brush pattern was dropped by the US Army as it looked too much like British DPM.

According to eye tracking tests tiger style patterns performed worse than the Cadpat/ Marpat - which strangely enough is a dithered tiger pattern.
Check it out over ranges out to 100m.

Marpat was selected over the USMC Experimental Tiger even after that tiger performed better in field trials. I guess they put more faith in the Canadian tests.

Riaan

[KBar666]

The bad thing about Tiger Stripe, as many other camo patterns, there is too much going on within the pattern itself. The big stripes of black, the green, brown and tan colors are just too mixed up, too busy. Its the same with M81 Woodland and specifically 6-Color Desert, there is too much in the pattern. M81 has the wrong colors for the most part, maybe if you are in a bush or up in a tree it would work but otherwise it is very dark.

ACU sucks, so does the ABU(Air Force Digital Tiger Stripe in ACU colors). It only works of its dirty, really dirty. MARPAT is better, the desert is very good. The colors in the digital pattern seems to blend in with each other, unlike M81, therefore it blends in with the environment better. Woodland MARPAT has that Coyote Brown background which is great because most wooded areas are really brown or even red. The green is for vegetation and the black is to break it all up even more, in my opinion there is too much black, you wont find that in nature. It wouldn't be necessary to add another green but to decrease the amount of black would surely increase the ability to blend. Black will create itself in shadows, forests aren't naturally black, shadows make them blacker.

3-Color Desert is good, the patterns can be too big and too varying. When you have a Khaki base and add, lets say, Coyote Brown, it sticks out. That is what the 6-Color, 3-Color and M81 are designed like, but without the intention to stick out. 3-Color is great, in my opinion.

This may have been sad,I haven't read all the posts(short on time right now) but there actualy was two versions of tiger stripe produced. They still are however it can be a little hard to find the latter.

There was the "Wet Season" TS where/when the greens and such mentioned were more pronouced,this is the one common one that I think you were talking bout. There is however a "dry season" TS that well is just th opposite...and then of course you have the desert and now even the AF version.

[-MOOSE-]

I've seen the regular green, the gold, the tan, urban, black/grey, and digital ACU versions of Tiger Stripe.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Tigerstripe was one of final 3 choices for USMC before MARPAT was picked in final decision.




Could I get this anywhere?

[KBar666]

I've seen the regular green, the gold, the tan, urban, black/grey, and digital ACU versions of Tiger Stripe.

alright MOOSE...I wasn't trying to undercut you,just saying so please don't take what I said earlier as an insult,just you'd be surprised how many don't know that there actualy is more than one.

[supercontra]

I've tried to find a pic of the modified Rhodesian cammo but with no success. All articles mention it but only post pics of tiger and MARPAT. Can anyone help out?
There are lots of pics of the ordinary Rhodesian camo but that's not what I'm after (unless they are the same)

[rrossouw]

Hi Supercontra

Sadly the modified rhodesian didn't make it off the development PC or photosimulations. There wasn't a print made.

I doubt that images will become available unless someone involved with the project posts it.

I would guess that the colours in it would have been very close to the marpat colours, with some variation due to the larger patches of colour.
Rhodesian is a 4 colour pattern (base + 2 printed colours that sometimes overlap resulting in the 4th colour).

I think it would also have been modified to exhibit a high texture pattern up close.

Riaan

[Remington Rand]

Hi Trael

The 3rd pattern was a modified version of the Rhodesian / Zimbabwe pattern.
Sadly it wasn't taken to field testing, I'm guessing political issues with Zim "unselected" it. The same way the All-Over-Brush pattern was dropped by the US Army as it looked too much like British DPM.

According to eye tracking tests tiger style patterns performed worse than the Cadpat/ Marpat - which strangely enough is a dithered tiger pattern.
Check it out over ranges out to 100m.

Marpat was selected over the USMC Experimental Tiger even after that tiger performed better in field trials. I guess they put more faith in the Canadian tests.

Riaan

any pictures available of "all over brush"? Also the Marine experimental tiger stripe is a cool pattern, though it doesnt look as versatile as the Marpat they selected.

[rrossouw]

Hi Remington

Urban and desert version at the bottom of this page.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111379

Google is your friend - for more images, you just have to wade through the cosmetic surgery stuff.

Riaan

[Cpt.Comatose]

This may have been sad,I haven't read all the posts(short on time right now) but there actualy was two versions of tiger stripe produced. They still are however it can be a little hard to find the latter.

There was the "Wet Season" TS where/when the greens and such mentioned were more pronouced,this is the one common one that I think you were talking bout. There is however a "dry season" TS that well is just th opposite...and then of course you have the desert and now even the AF version.

I haven't been aible to find the dry season version yet.
Where can it be found?

[El Diablo Rojo]

I haven't been aible to find the dry season version yet.
Where can it be found?
I've never heard of "dry season" used to refer to tigers, but I think the difference he is talking about is this


Not 100% sure.

[davidtkl]

If I am not wrong, Tiger stripes are never an American invention. It is used by South Vietnamese Special Forces, LLDB.

American forces in Vietnam adopted the same uniform for elite forces in RVN.


Before the adoption of the ERDL/81 Woodland camo, Did the US Forces ever consider using TigerStripe for thier standard camouflage? or was this more suited to 'Elite' units?.

Although the US Forces now use the ACU's, I still think the TigerStripe would have been better than the Woodland pattern for standard issue as many claim it blends in great in a number of environments and has a more aggresive look.

[chino65]

Singapore military had tiger stripe camo uniform on limited issue from 70's to 80's. This was the period when everyone was wearing plain green uniforms. This is a very rare item these days.

IIRC, this Tiger Stripe camo was used to wrap all the US-style tin pot helmets we were using during that same period.

[Cpt.Comatose]

here on this forum are some vietnam pics where you can see some pretty bright tiger stripe uniforms.
and - though it's just a movie - in "spy game" they're also using bright tiger stripe uniforms in the vietnam part of the movie.

[hankpac]

I wore Tiger Stripes in Viet Nam.
They were made from a cotton material, so they faded from a green background toward a more yellow shade. Much of the current production is from 50/50 or completely synthetic, so it stays that hard "new" color for far too long. I have a set of cotton stripes, and they not only fade, they are fitting much better the older they get.
When faded the original (a product made for the Vietnamese. As small as I was at the time, I had to wear VN large, to even get close) blended perfectly in the elephant grass in the A Shau Valley, and worked at least to some extent in the rain forest.
Interestingly, as noted above, it works well in forest. In particular in fir forests, where the lines of green and shadow match almost perfectly.
I have had elk, and deer walk within 4-5 feet of me, and never realize I was there, until scented.
As for human vision, I have also had friends and enemy look right past me, both close and far, so I know the stuff works, regardless of theory.
Hank
www.tigerforcerecon.com

[Linedoggie]

http://www.vietnamgear.com/kit.aspx?kit=460

[Cpt.Comatose]

I wore Tiger Stripes in Viet Nam.
They were made from a cotton material, so they faded from a green background toward a more yellow shade. Much of the current production is from 50/50 or completely synthetic, so it stays that hard "new" color for far too long. I have a set of cotton stripes, and they not only fade, they are fitting much better the older they get.
When faded the original (a product made for the Vietnamese. As small as I was at the time, I had to wear VN large, to even get close) blended perfectly in the elephant grass in the A Shau Valley, and worked at least to some extent in the rain forest.
Interestingly, as noted above, it works well in forest. In particular in fir forests, where the lines of green and shadow match almost perfectly.
I have had elk, and deer walk within 4-5 feet of me, and never realize I was there, until scented.
As for human vision, I have also had friends and enemy look right past me, both close and far, so I know the stuff works, regardless of theory.
Hank
www.tigerforcerecon.com (http://www.tigerforcerecon.com)

ok, so the brighter version is just pretty washed out?

[El Diablo Rojo]

If I am not wrong, Tiger stripes are never an American invention. It is used by South Vietnamese Special Forces, LLDB.

American forces in Vietnam adopted the same uniform for elite forces in RVN.
I was under the impression the Vietnamese took the design from the French lizard pattern, and modified it.

[hankpac]

I think someone else answered that with photos of two different versions, a summer and winter version.
The ones available to me in 1968 were made of cotton, so they were going to fade. They had a cigarette pack pocket on the left sleeve.
The "Propper" company set I have will probably never fade or shrink to fit.
The cotton ones I have are starting to look like my original set. They are soft, and fading slightly.
Look on my web site for how they fade.
www.tigerforcerecon.com

[STuG]

I was under the impression the Vietnamese took the design from the French lizard pattern, and modified it.

If i may repeat myself from another thread...

The classic "lizard" pattern camouflage worn by French and Colonial Paratroops in the first Indochina war was the direct inspiration for tigerstripe and it left a lasting impression on the new army of South Vietnam.

From this inspiration the many patterns of tiger were born.

The only large scale government issue of TS was to the Vietnamese Marine Corps and their unique tiger pattern was also the first pattern to emerge.

The VNMC produced an experimental pattern that had clear and obvious links in the details of the black primary stripes to that of the French pattern, and whilst not a direct copy of the French pattern in totality, it is a direct ancestral link to it.

The surviving known examples of this experimental pattern are dated from August 1957 through to December 1958.

The VNMC offically adopted tigerstripe as their camo uniform in 1959.

Tigerstripe was made during the war in Vietnam, Japan, Thailand, Taiwan, Malaysia and the Philippines. I have read of a Cambodian produced tiger pattern, but i have never actually seen an example.

Due to Vietnam being full of tailorshops, the variations that can be encountered are quite staggering.

Generally, tigers were private purchase or issued on a small local command scale (photos of indigenous members of Recon teams spring to mind here).

Please note that tigers can be seen being worn by virtually all the armed branches of South Vietnam from VNMC, through to Police and CIDG units from the beginning of the US involvement right to the fall of the South in 1975.