Military pay

[Scrim]

Was doing some research, and was not surprised to discover that US troops are among the worst paid in NATO. According to some sources, a boot Royal Marine (PFC) makes more than a ten year Sgt. in the USMC!
A basically trained US servicemember as a PFC/E-2 earns $1,290 a month. I would be interested to hear your opinions on this, and also to hear from my overseas cousins on what pay they receive for their military service.

[Seiyuuki]

"It's not a job...IT'S AN ADVENTURE" :lol: :lol: :lol:

...or so they said.

[James]

When I was on active duty, we'd get letters each year from the government at tax time. It would compare our pay and benefits with someone in the civilian workforce, things like rent, medical benefits, food, etc. The government claimed that even though we were only taking home something like $15,000 per annum, all the benefits gave us the equivalent of about $25,000 per annum in the civilian workforce. If a U.S. Servicemember is married, the government provides an aprtment or house, depending on rank. I believe that there are more benefits for having children as well.
THere have been stories (true, I believe) about U.S. servicmembers having to tak second jobs, using food stamps, etc. I my personal experience, this was often due to a 19 year old E-2 being married, having 2 or 3 kids, and a spouse that did not work. It is a shame, but people should know what they are getting into. The pay is not great. It never has been.
Everyone I knew, myself included, didn't enlist and go into the infantry because of the pay. As stated in the last post, it was an adventure with a bit of patriotism mixed in.

Are there extra benefits for troops in the UK? Canada? I am referring to government housing, medical benefits, etc. If anyone knows about this stuff, please advise.

[Desert-Fox]

the way i look at it:

its your duty to serve your country!
no matter how bad the pay is.

and by the way british soldiers are in my opinion heavily overpaied!
and quite honestly i think it is every mans duty to serve his country
for at least a couple of years!

[Scrim]

I agree with you James, I certainly never joined for the money. I just find it sad that we are the worlds superpower, and we pay our troops ****e compared to other less well off countries(no offence).
According to the Royal Navy website they have pretty much the same benefits we did(I too was a Marine) but they have to pay for food, about $38 a week if eating at the chow hall, not in the field. Hopefully one of our British friends will elaborate soon.

[ibstolidude]

It is not just a job....
it is $1.83 a day....

I think the US military is vastly underpaid. I also think the benefits to them are extremely lacking after ETS... The educational benefits are often a joke..I knew dudes in the reserves (came from active dudty) that gained the GI Bill - came into the reserves and spent the bulk of the next 10 years deployed or in schools and suddenyl Oops the 10 year elegibility is up for your education benefits!! soooo sorry.

Education should be free to soldiers that have spent X number of years or longer on AD. that is my thought anywho..

And for all those that say the benefits are just fine - imagine having a highly depoloyed job (not infantry - I said highly deployed) after five years in (the bulk spent away from home) and you are married so you exit the military after 8 years (or 6 or whatever) - now you have to provide for your family, play in the reserves (if applicable - and that can me some LONG term deployments), and then try and make education ends meet with the whatever benefits you may still have from the military (and students loans help needed for a non-public education). - good luck


It is just one more example were "supporting the troops" means I put a flag sticker on my car, but the tax dollars I put someplace else - patriotism has been become a flag signature on an email rather than the efforts of individuals to create support.

[Scrim]

I find it hard to believe anyone would think any military is overpaid. I suppose teachers and cops make way too much money as well huh? Greedy bastards should do it for free.

[andrew45c]

Royal MarineAnnual basic pay (£) from 1 April 2003
Age on Entry and Rank Salary

18 - 2nd Lieutenant Direct Entry on appointment 13,944

19 - 2nd Lieutenant Direct Entry on appointment 15,221

20 - 2nd Lieutenant Direct Entry on appointment 17,871

21+ 2nd Lieutenant Direct Graduate Entry on appointment 20,173

Subsequent Promotion Salary

Captain 31,069-36,951

Major 39,140-46,872

Lt Colonel 54,932-60,723

Colonel 63,614-70,312

Royal Marines Other Rank Salary

On entry 11,152

Marine 13,080-23,716

Corporal 21,650-27,193

Sergeant 26,846-30,260

Colour Sergeant/Warrant Officer II 30,282-35,443

Warrant Officer I 34,484-38,312


Hope this helps doesnt seem that much though

[Nawlins]

They're risking their lives to protect us, the least we can do is pay them enough so they can support their families. I was appalled to read (can't find the article now of course) that a large number of AD guys take a second job to make ends meet.

That is all.

[Chris1]

Are there extra benefits for troops in the UK? Canada? I am referring to government housing, medical benefits, etc. If anyone knows about this stuff, please advise.
For the UK
In a nutshell
Accomodation - Sort of. Its government housing, The cost is set by the pay review board, its cheaper (depending several factors, it can be *a lot* cheaper for the quality) but in some cases the accomodation is *cough* less than satisfactory. Sometimes its shared accomodation, sometimes is single living accomodation. Depends on the posting and your luck.
Thankfully most of the time its single living accomodation (single room with communal rec rooms and facilities)
Its deducted from your pay automatically, so you'd never be out of home.
Pads (Married soldiers) get more housing benefits but not being attached to a ball and chain I couldn't comment :)

Medical - Its all free anyway.

Food & Drink - technically. Its cheaper in the NAAFI as the food it is subsidised by the Government and some of it is bloody good quality stuff, but quality varies.
Obviously food on exercise and operations you don't have to pay for :)
(unless its macdonalds/BK/Pizza hut, I hear they've been setting up shop in Iraq :)

[digitalghost]

Who needs education if your in infantry/special forces---- If I was in the Army the only reason I'd want more pay is to buy better gear for missions. Check out how expensive the Paraclete RAV is:

http://www.lightfighter.com/item.html?PRID=1284202

Thats $5000 to get a woodland version and a desert version-- Hell I would have to spend an entire deployment/rotation/half year legnth just to pay for that. First thing I'll get though is a helmet camera to record all the action p-)

[Scrim]

Is Adam back?

[digitalghost]

who the hell is adam

[James]

Uh, someone who didn't want to spend 20+ years in the infantry/SF/whatever might want an education. There are other things to do in the world.
Let's not let this descend into a discussion abut what gear is cool, etc. Please.

[Marsuitor]

Good grief,
"buy better gear for missions", sounds like something out of a computer game. :roll:
I'd want more pay so i could buy a heavy tank and four grenadiers. But that'll run you 1100 credits...

On the note of pay, Norway has very high pay for it's men compared to other countries, but things are quite different here compared to the US/UK. I believe for an enlisted private pay starts at around 30000$ per annum. In addition, anyone enlisted would be getting field pay when on excercise. That's runs at about 140$ per night spent out.
When operational, you also get all sorts of extras like risk-pay, "away-from-home" pay etc. So in the end pay runs at about 3200$ a month. As you gain rank pay increases accordingly.
The main difference here being that Norway doesn't have a fully professional armed force, therefore everyone they do have on operational missions are volunteers for that specific deployment. The forces has to have such a pay to recruit enough people. The flipside to that coin is that you often get a bunch of wankers who sign up just to cruise through the six months, get a load of cash, buy "bling-bling" and very generally do a sub-standard job. At least this has been a problem in Kosovo IMO. I believe A-Stan and Irak is/will be quite different for now though...

[ibstolidude]

I remember several years back when the US army didn't even want GED people and the standards were much stricter

[Dennis G]

Military Pay Raise

A piece from the Washington Times, denouncing a pay raise. Stating 13% wage was more than they deserve.

A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this!

I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service) and my bank account. Checking my latest leave and earnings statement (LES), I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through Windows' Calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40 after.

I work in the Air Force Network Control Center (AFNCC), where I am part of the team responsible for the administration of a 5,000-host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year, nor does it pay less than this. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum. I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.

Also, you tout increases to Basic Allowance for Housing and Basic Allowance for Subsistence(housing and food allowances, respectively) as being a further boon to an already overcompensated force. Again, I'm curious as to where this money has gone, as BAH and BAS were both slashed 15% in the Hill AFB area effective in January 00.

Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you have NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces. Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off AFDC, WIC, and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN, I leave the choice of service branch up to you. Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience."

As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary breadwinner is gone -- obviously they've been squandering the vast piles of cash the DOD has been giving them.

Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a DFP (Defensive Fire Position, the modern-day foxhole), shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor.

Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't be nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your op-ed piece. But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it. You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe.

We hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies. And you, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve?

Rubbish!

A1C Michael Bragg, Hill AFB AFNCC"

[digitalghost]

How do you propose paying the military a doctor/lawyers income? Higher taxes? If you are in the Army long enough you will see that kind of money when your a high ranking General. I think its pretty fair that you can start with 10k/month and end up with 10,000 a month

[FallenAngel]

Who needs education if your in infantry/special forces---- If I was in the Army the only reason I'd want more pay is to buy better gear for missions.

Sweet Jesus...how old are you? 15? Of course you need an education. You obviously don't have ANY if you think you can get by in ANYTHING without an education (well, unless you plan on being a career private...). I am not in the military- I don't pretend I am either- but it's of great interest to me and I may sign up for a reserve unit....but all of that is secondary to my education. I am pre-med, plan on going to medical school, becoming a doctor and really doing what I love. Education is the key to everything in life, even the military. Why do you think officers need a degree? To whipe their ass with? Of course not- it's because the more you know and can do, then you're more valuable that way.


who the hell is adam

Adam was some kid who was eternally obsessed with kits. He could quote you a price for damn near anything from helmets and optics to shoe-laces. He hung around here talking like you do until he wised up and (last I read) he was getting ready to sign up for service. AFAIK, he did. Good for him I say :)

[digitalghost]

Sweet Jesus...how old are you? 15? Of course you need an education. You obviously don't have ANY if you think you can get by in ANYTHING without an education (well, unless you plan on being a career private...). I am not in the military- I don't pretend I am either- but it's of great interest to me and I may sign up for a reserve unit....but all of that is secondary to my education. I am pre-med, plan on going to medical school, becoming a doctor and really doing what I love. Education is the key to everything in life, even the military. Why do you think officers need a degree? To whipe their ass with? Of course not- it's because the more you know and can do, then you're more valuable that way.

Dont mention thy G*d's name in vain. You WILL GOTO HELL!!!!!

So let me get this straight. What kind of "college education" does one need for getting into Army units such as 101st, 75th Ranger Regiment, SF, Delta, and rising up through years in any of those units to a Rank of a General? What education? I don't understand the "system" so help me understand. I know for a fact though that one does not need any formal education such as a college degree to get into the above units.

[ibstolidude]

..............

[Beowulf]

or you could just smoke a lot of pole to get promoted....hehehe
-b

[digitalghost]

Hmm yes it should change. But what does one do to change that?


And isn't it a little nuts that soldiers have to dish out all that money for equipment? A lot of jobs might require you to buy a suit, but the amount of money, and percent of money, spent on equipment for military jobs is far higher than any civilian line of work I know about.

Actually, the Army issues you everything you basically need. If you, the unsatisfied yet more knowledgable individual would like more/better gear you can buy it yourself and use it instead of having to wait for the Army to make it GI-material.

Beowulf: Thats quite the immoral act I must say

[ibstolidude]

use the kneepads for something useful...ehh D

I then you can end up as Carl's aid down in NC.

[ibstolidude]

Digital:
Quote:
"And isn't it a little nuts that soldiers have to dish out all that money for equipment? A lot of jobs might require you to buy a suit, but the amount of money, and percent of money, spent on equipment for military jobs is far higher than any civilian line of work I know about.

Actually, the Army issues you everything you basically need. If you, the unsatisfied yet more knowledgable individual would like more/better gear you can buy it yourself and use it instead of having to wait for the Army to make it GI-material. "

Sure they do.....

Eyes Left

[James]

Gear... sigh... For much of the time I was on active duty, my gear consisted of old suspenders and a cartridge belt with ammo pouches, canteen pouches, etc. My pack was a worn out green ALICE. Much of it had been new in the late 1960s. You know what? It worked fine. When things didn't work (they were often worn out because of age and hard use), we did have some high speed gear with which to make repairs - 100mph tape and 550 cord. Nobody complained, either.

As far as education goes, it is correct that you can enlist in the military w/o any college. As someone mentioned, though, promotion beyond E-5 generally neccessitates more education. While I was on active duty, the USMC had an "Up or Out" policy, meaning that you couldn't get to Corporal or Sergeant and stay there until you retired. If you didn't get promoted within a certain time frame, you were discharged. I don't know if the other services had (or have) similar policies. If anyone knows, please advise.

If all you're concerned about is being high speed, don't even go into the military. Just buy a bunch of gear and play with it or something. I don't know. :roll:

[Duke]

While I was on active duty, the USMC had an "Up or Out" policy, meaning that you couldn't get to Corporal or Sergeant and stay there until you retired. If you didn't get promoted within a certain time frame, you were discharged. I don't know if the other services had (or have) similar policies. If anyone knows, please advise.
The US military follows the "Up or out" to make way for better upcoming personnel. It generally follows in this format.
Officers fulfulling their TIG(Time in Grade) responsibilities, ie PME(education), command billet, staff billet, or whatever is necessary, are "In the Zone"(That is proper military speak) or most likelyup for promotion. If an officer is "In the Zone" and "Above the Zone" and his promotion boards passes him over twice by better candidates, then the officer fills out separtion papers and eventually is discharged.
In the O-4(Majors, LCDR) range, (officers with ~ 15 years) the rules are little more relaxed. Often times passed over O-4s are allowed to be rat holed in billets, and serve out five more years to reach retirement with pay.

[James]

Duke, do you know anything about this policy for enlisted guys? There was a Staff Sergeant in my company at one point who had to get out because he'd been an E-6 for too long. Please advise.

[Duke]

As for civilian education and military, the system smiles on those more educated than those who are not. For example, Recruits who graduate from Basic/Boot with over 60 credits are promoted to E-3, instead of an E-2; also Recruits who graduate with a bachelors earned an E-4. Furthermore, the higher up the chevron/bar tree, the more and more personnel have under gone civilian education. ~70% of O-3 and above have atleast a master's degree. And 68% of enlisted personnel have earned college credit.

[digitalghost]

Gear... sigh... For much of the time I was on active duty, my gear consisted of old suspenders and a cartridge belt with ammo pouches, canteen pouches, etc. My pack was a worn out green ALICE. Much of it had been new in the late 1960s. You know what? It worked fine. When things didn't work (they were often worn out because of age and hard use), we did have some high speed gear with which to make repairs - 100mph tape and 550 cord. Nobody complained, either.

Why didn't you buy new gear?


If all you're concerned about is being high speed, don't even go into the military. Just buy a bunch of gear and play with it or something. I don't know

Just because I speak about one of many aspects of the military, does not mean that is the only aspect I care about. If you speak about military pay, it would be wrong of me to turn around and tell you that money is all you care about.

[James]

I apologize if I seemed irritated, but all this fascination with gear gets frustrating at times.

As for buying myself gear, what I had worked. If it was really thrashed, I could survey it for something a little less worn.

I was concerned about spending my hard earned cash on other things -

"LIBBO!"

[Duke]

Duke, do you know anything about this policy for enlisted guys? There was a Staff Sergeant in my company at one point who had to get out because he'd been an E-6 for too long. Please advise.
I had to think about that, I don't know a whole lot about E promotions. Your SSGT has a certain amount of time for promotion to E-7. This time is let by law. Each branch of service sets criteria for promotion in a point system, such as points for medals, fitreps, PME, civilian education etc etc etc. I bet the SSGT was out pointed by his cohorts. In other words, better qualified SSGTs were about.

[James]

I do know two things - he had a love for the bottle at all times of day, and he was still a a Staff Sergeant with something like 18 years in the Corps. It was best for everyone that he got out, I think. He was certainly of little use as a platoon sergeant.

[Duke]

When analyzing US military pay, you have to look at its entire system. Otherwise, you may short change the military's actually wages. The military implements numerous plans to cut down on actually take home cash, such as BAH (housing) and BAS (food). BAH for some who live on base is something like 60/month and those with dependants can be around 3000/month. As for BAS it may be a flat 167/month, but the prices at the commissary are lower than civilian prices. Also, base theatres are often free on certain nights. We actually have numerous subsidies, eventhough we don't get much coin.

[digitalghost]

Hel yea! Dont you get free medical dental eye housing food etc. ? Would be sweet if they gave soldiers a company car which is of course a civilian H1 :lol:

[ibstolidude]

as posted the majority of enlisted qualify for food stamps - and good luck when you try and get through school but hey atleast the bag lunches are great!! :(

[Royal]

Rates of pay for the Royal Marines have already been posted. As for education/promotion, things are pretty much as Duke explained.

We are probably better paid than the US (or so Tony Balir tells us). On the flip side we pay full taxes even when deployed for over six months, married accomodation is generally very poor quality.

SLA (single living accomodation) is improving, though it remains very poor for SNCO's - the powers that be figured that they can't afford to get out now and loose pesion rights.

The firefighters in the UK were on strike until GWII kicked off for a basic rate of £30,000pa (nearly three times the ammount the lads (& girls)maning the standby fire engines get). They didn't get it.

[RealUltimatePower]

Well here in the Cold North, I get paid about $81.47 cdn a day. Though I do not get housing, food or anything since I'm a reservist. In the reg force the pay scale is about the same. But they do get housing, food and benefits. Except I believe that if you have a family you have to pay rent even if your living on base.

The pay here is great, BUT we don't get to do much in the world like the US does so when I graduate high school it's off to Perris Island with me. I don't care much what they pay me. Considering housing, health care, food, clothing allowance and other benefits on top of your monthly pay is provided, plus you have the comfort in knowing the people of the United States respect you and that your job actually makes a difference, I have no problem with the pay scale there.