Economy & Politics: "It's all THEIR fault!"

[Flagg]

Pelosi: Dems bear no responsibility for economic crisis
By Klaus Marre
Posted: 09/16/08 04:14 PM [ET]
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, when asked Tuesday whether Democrats bear some of the responsibility regarding the current crisis on Wall Street, had a one-word answer: “No.”



Pelosi (D-Calif.) ripped President Bush’s “mismanagement” of the economy and a lack of regulation that led to the current situation.

“I think the American people have had it with this situation where the middle-income people in our country are not protected from the ramifications of the risk-taking and the greed of these financial institutions,” Pelosi told MSNBC.

When asked whether the Democrats “deserve some responsibility” regarding the economic crisis, Pelosi responded: “No.”

“John McCain said that this is a result of overregulation by the Democrats in Congress,” she added. “Either he doesn’t know what he's talking about or he’s misrepresenting the facts as he knows them. But it’s simply not true.”

Republicans responded quickly, pointing out that a Congress led by Democrats had not helped the economy.

“The Pelosi-Obama Congress has failed to pass an all-of-the-above energy plan, failed to stop earmarks, and failed to break the partisan gridlock that plagues Washington,” RNC spokesman Alex Conant said. “If Pelosi thinks the Democratic Congress is doing a good job handling the economy now, then just imagine how bad our economy would be if Democrats controlled the White House, too.”

And the blame game on the economy begins.......it's always someone else's fault.

Yet every Senator and Congressman had the ability and authority to put the spotlight on this gigantic pile of turds, when it was only a large pile of turds

Ron Paul may have been a bit too honest(and a bit too libertarian) for Americans to be President, but his never ending efforts to tell us all the truth are unequalled in government. Ron Paul WARNED us......and his peers ignored him.

Nearly everyone besides Ron Paul is culpable.....it's just a question of degree.

And anyone claiming ignorance of this multi-layered catastrophe is either lying or dangerously incompetent.

McCain, Obama, Biden, and Pelosi ALL could have done more to mitigate this problem.

It's what truly disgusts me in the real world of politics(and office politics as well).

Key players will have CLEARLY SEEN these problems from a distance.......and rather than rolling up their sleeves and attacking these problems in a joint bipartisan fashion they position themselves along individual and/or party lines knowingly allowing the damage and rot to continue so as to cash in politically when the cards fall by distancing themselves from known problems.

There should be a Ron Paul character test to ascertain people's ability to put the interests of their fellow citizens first, well before individual or party gain.

[Ordie]

If anything, I'm glad the issues are back on the headlines.

[Ratamacue]

If anything, I'm glad the issues are back on the headlines.Yeah, but the same people are still in charge.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

If anything, I'm glad the issues are back on the headlines.

We can agree on that.

The blame game is interesting to watch though. Most folks trace the current mess to the deregulation of investment banks by congress in 1999 - an initiative led by Republicans but with bipartisan support and Clinton's signature...so I guess the finger can point any which way.

My problem with Ron Paul is that along with the truly valuable things he says, is about 10% verifiable crazy talk...hard to know when he's switching gears. There's a certain modus operandi that some people engage in - where they'll claim to have unique or revolutionary knowledge, things that the common person couldn't understand so don't bother trying, they'll try to appeal to fear just as others operating differently appeal to greed - and they'll attempt to flim-flamm their way into positions of authority. Lyndon LaRouche always comes to mind. Paul isn't that bad but he's just so hard to listen to.

[Macs.]

Normal game. As long as it somehow works, just don't say anything.

We have a ****storm coming here right now, one of the state-owned banks transfered 300 Million Euros to the Lehman Bros on 15 September, when everyone already knew they were bankcrupt. They say it was a technical error... :roll:

[Zoomie]

All I have to say is, shut up Pelosi, Bush warned them back in 2005 and they had this to say:

''These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''
Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.
''I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,'' Mr. Watt said.

[Yeti2424]

Her comments only help to show the fantasy world that she lives in.

[Hot Lips]

All I know is, it's not my fault. And I'm sticking with that.

[Zoomie]

All I know is, it's not my fault. And I'm sticking with that.
Well Hot Lips, it's the truth. Besides, who'd want to blame you? p-)

[Flagg]

We can agree on that.

The blame game is interesting to watch though. Most folks trace the current mess to the deregulation of investment banks by congress in 1999 - an initiative led by Republicans but with bipartisan support and Clinton's signature...so I guess the finger can point any which way.

My problem with Ron Paul is that along with the truly valuable things he says, is about 10% verifiable crazy talk...hard to know when he's switching gears. There's a certain modus operandi that some people engage in - where they'll claim to have unique or revolutionary knowledge, things that the common person couldn't understand so don't bother trying, they'll try to appeal to fear just as others operating differently appeal to greed - and they'll attempt to flim-flamm their way into positions of authority. Lyndon LaRouche always comes to mind. Paul isn't that bad but he's just so hard to listen to.

How's this sound?

Ron Paul and Ross Perot on the Independant ticket :)

I agree with the "10% crazy talk" for both...I wonder if a translator could be brought in to allow them to communicate with humans.

I agree with LaRouche, he's always scared me.

But with Paul and to a lesser extent Perot, I've always felt they are pretty genuine and more credible than the rest.

It's a shame both of them are such party poopers......if only they had spent more time at university trying to gets girls drunk, telling them lies, and giving them a proper rodgering.....they'd stand a better chance of....oh wait.....that's why we're here in the first place :)

[Flagg]

Normal game. As long as it somehow works, just don't say anything.

We have a ****storm coming here right now, one of the state-owned banks transfered 300 Million Euros to the Lehman Bros on 15 September, when everyone already knew they were bankcrupt. They say it was a technical error... :roll:

I'm quite familiar with international funds transfers......there are numerous safeguards put in place to ensure there aren't "accidents" or "errors".

It's not like someone accidentally pressed a button for 300m Euros to move.

We recently had an error on the side of our issuing bank.....they were obligated to correct the error and make us whole.

Superficially it sounds like bullpoop macs

[Solomin]

Interest politics, Fanny and Freddie give huge donations to liberal organizations and they are waist deep in low income housing.

[Macs.]

I'm quite familiar with international funds transfers......there are numerous safeguards put in place to ensure there aren't "accidents" or "errors".

It's not like someone accidentally pressed a button for 300m Euros to move.

We recently had an error on the side of our issuing bank.....they were obligated to correct the error and make us whole.

Superficially it sounds like bullpoop macs

Yeah... Appartenly it was made as part of a Swap-Deal based on a long-term contract. Something like this is simply embrassing, that cannot happen. Even worse in days of such troubling banking business when everyone is on alert.

The CEO of the Bank is just 3 weeks in charge, gonna be funny for him with all the politicans that demand some blood now. Now let's see how much they get back from the insolvency-mass, they are hoping for 40% to 50% but that sounds like too much for me.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It's a shame both of them are such party poopers......if only they had spent more time at university trying to gets girls drunk, telling them lies, and giving them a proper rodgering.....they'd stand a better chance of....oh wait.....that's why we're here in the first place :)

Well ya can't have everything, right? If we get some socially retarded egghead in the White House, our books might work out better, but nobody will invite us to parties. We'll have to be all super efficient and eat our own waste. I've seen THX1138. No thank you sir.

[vryhpyammoadded]

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, when asked Tuesday whether Democrats bear some of the responsibility regarding the current crisis on Wall Street, had a one-word answer: “No.”
Simply wow! That woman has some balls.
I’ve been following the growing fiasco for a few years watching politicians on both sides of the isle and in the executive brew this stink up. No responsibility my ass. I hope she gets politically crucified for that statement but I know nothing will happen because the average Joe is simply not organized enough to do so.

The Dhimmies should change tack quick cause lies like this will burn them bad once the investigations get cracking and made public. Hell, I hope heads roll all over DC for both parties. We need a good overhaul of all those entrenched politicos like happened back in 74.

[akd]

FYI, I believe both parties are equally culpable on a grand scale, but neither together nor alone are they the sole source of all economic ups and downs. Nonetheless, some of the particulars are fascinating, and the Dems get special damnation for Fannie/Freddie:


All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie MacCampaign Contributions, 1989-2008

Name Office State Party Grand Total Total from
PACs Total from Individuals

Name / Office / State / Party / Grand Total / Total from PACs / Total from Individuals

Dodd, Christopher J S CT D $165,400 $48,500 $116,900
Obama, Barack S IL D $126,349 $6,000 $120,349
Kerry, John S MA D $111,000 $2,000 $109,000
...
62. McCain, JohnS AZ R $21,550 $0 $21,550

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3555868

Obama's place second on the list is pretty interesting considering Obama is a junior senator who doesn't hold a committee seat important to the business.

McCain's place on that list is not too surprising:

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae's regulator reported that the company's quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were "illusions deliberately and systematically created" by the company's senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.
The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae's former chief executive officer, OFHEO's report shows that over half of Mr. Raines' compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator's examination of the company's accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 1 90 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190), to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.


-Sen. John McCain, May 25, 2006

Democrats blocked the attempted reform.

On to the others:

Since the 1990 election, Merrill Lynch (http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?cycle=A&type=P&id=D000000108)'s PAC and employees have given $14.7 million to federal candidates, parties and committees. The company leans heavily Republican--64 percent of the brokerage's total donations have gone to GOP candidates and committees. All three of its top recipients have been (or still are) presidential hopefuls this election cycle. Republican John McCain received $394,300 from people associated with Merrill Lynch, making the company his top contributor. Democrat Hillary Clinton collected $290,650, and Barack Obama got $229,100. The company's favorite non-presidential candidate is Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), a member of both the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee and the Senate Finance Committee. He has received $226,150 in this election cycle.

Bank of America (http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?cycle=A&type=P&id=D000000090)'s PAC and employees have given $16.6 million, also favoring Republicans, though less sharply. About 54 percent of the company's contributions over time have gone to the GOP. Obama is the top recipient of contributions from employees at Bank of America, with $263,500 in donations. McCain has brought in $177,500, making him the fourth-largest recipient. Sen. Chris Dodd, chair of the Senate banking committee, has collected $144,650, while congressional leaders Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer (both Democrats) and John Boehner (a Republican) are all among the company's top 20 recipients over time.

Lehman Brothers has given $9.2 million through employees and its PAC since 1989, with 54 percent of that going to Democrats. Clinton and Barack Obama top the list of all-time recipients for the company, collecting $410,000 and $395,600 respectively. Schumer hauled in $181,450, while Dodd has collected $165,800. The top recipient of PAC money from Lehman Brothers has been Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del.), a member of the House Financial Services Committee, which has jurisdiction over banking and the securities industry. Castle has collected $38,500 from Lehman's PAC since 1993.

This election cycle, Lehman employees have given about $1.3 million to presidential candidates. Only fellow financial giants Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley have given more to the presidential hopefuls this election cycle. Lehman employees have made their firm one of the top contributors to both Obama (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638) ($370,500) and John McCain (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?id=N00006424&cycle2=2008) ($117,500) this election cycle. (For a full list of recipients of Lehman contributions, see this post (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/brothers-grim-is-lehman-next.html) from Friday.)

Of all the companies making headlines this week, AIG (http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000123) has been the most nonpartisan in its contributions, splitting evenly the $9.7 million it has contributed over time. Dodd has racked up the most from AIG, with a total of $281,400, while Schumer takes second with $116,400. McCain and Obama collected $103,000 and $82,600 from AIG, respectively.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/wall-street-shakeup-connects-t.html

[Gat0r]

We can agree on that.

The blame game is interesting to watch though. Most folks trace the current mess to the deregulation of investment banks by congress in 1999 - an initiative led by Republicans but with bipartisan support and Clinton's signature...so I guess the finger can point any which way.

My problem with Ron Paul is that along with the truly valuable things he says, is about 10% verifiable crazy talk...hard to know when he's switching gears. There's a certain modus operandi that some people engage in - where they'll claim to have unique or revolutionary knowledge, things that the common person couldn't understand so don't bother trying, they'll try to appeal to fear just as others operating differently appeal to greed - and they'll attempt to flim-flamm their way into positions of authority. Lyndon LaRouche always comes to mind. Paul isn't that bad but he's just so hard to listen to.

Deregulation caused this? Its more in the fact that Fannie and Freddy were GSE's, given special treatment with a huge line of credit from the Treasury that distorted what they really would have had if they were held to the standards of the market in which their competitors were. It all starts with our basic fundemental monetary policy of a central bank creating a fiat currency which brings floods of new money and credit out of nothing.

Here's some Ron Paul crazy talk for you: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr091003.htm


Ron Paul crazy talk eh, care to enlighten me as to whats so crazy about his message? I think your wrong to say that his message isnt spreading, he has been bringing up the issues that the american people havnet heard of from any of the other politicians, the amount of support he was able to pick up in the last year is astonishing, there's no flim flamm from him he's fighting the status quo which is an incredibly difficult undertaking. As a die hard Paul supporter I will agree that he isnt exactly the best public speaker.

[Power_serj]

Ron Paul has the right idea, but he is too extreme in them. For example, he is against big government....GOOD! He goes to far, and wants to eliminate the FBI, CIA etc... He is against government regulation....GOOD! He goes to far and wants to get rid of the Federal Reserve. You catch my drift. Pure Capitalism and no government protection is not a good idea. Before there was regulation, there were no labor laws, discrimination laws, crime as rampant etc..

[Gat0r]

I dont think the FBI and CIA are high up on his list, havent heard much from him in the way of getting rid of them, I was just looking at his voting record the other day he voted for CIA appropriations, Dr. NO voted for the CIA. THe Federal Reserve is the root cause of all of this whole mess, they cause the inflation and the devaluation of the dollar, and these boom bust cycles. printing money.
Our dollar is worth 95% less than it was before we had the federal reserve, its only backed by debt, that kinda tells you something huh? Most of the modern world was based on the gold standard before that and we somehow managed to get along. People need to stop drinking the Keynsian Economic coolaid as this economic approach has once again utterly failed how many times do the Austrian Economists need to be right before people listen.

[Flagg]

Deregulation caused this? Its more in the fact that Fannie and Freddy were GSE's, given special treatment with a huge line of credit from the Treasury that distorted what they really would have had if they were held to the standards of the market in which their competitors were. It all starts with our basic fundemental monetary policy of a central bank creating a fiat currency which brings floods of new money and credit out of nothing.

Here's some Ron Paul crazy talk for you: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr091003.htm


Ron Paul crazy talk eh, care to enlighten me as to whats so crazy about his message? I think your wrong to say that his message isnt spreading, he has been bringing up the issues that the american people havnet heard of from any of the other politicians, the amount of support he was able to pick up in the last year is astonishing, there's no flim flamm from him he's fighting the status quo which is an incredibly difficult undertaking. As a die hard Paul supporter I will agree that he isnt exactly the best public speaker.

While I agree nearly 100% that Ron Paul is, and has been for a LONG time, issuing a warning to America...it's a bit too much for MOST people to compute.

Those people that "get it" are not the problem, but they are, and always will be the minority.

The problem is the MAJORITY.

Ron Paul's message might as well be telling everyone that earth is going to explode, so we need to move to a moonbase.......it's beyond most people's ability to comprehend....or even just pay attention.

Ron Paul needs to team up with, dare I say, Al Gore...someone who's experienced at marketing and selling poop in a sexy wrapper......at least now it would be mostly the truth in a sexy wrapper...should be an easier sell.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Interesting times are just so much fun don'tcha think. The fact that politicians on both sides in the USA are equally responsible for not doing anything to stop the current situation developing speaks volumes about the validity of the system. Enjoy your elections it won't make any difference who wins because you're just re-electing the 'system'. :roll:

[WarriorMonk]

Interesting times are just so much fun don'tcha think. The fact that politicians on both sides in the USA are equally responsible for not doing anything to stop the current situation developing speaks volumes about the validity of the system. Enjoy your elections it won't make any difference who wins because you're just re-electing the 'system'. :roll:

so then what do you propose then?

[Winger]

so then what do you propose then?

Not much. He runs the peanut gallery commentary. ;)

To Flagg, although 10% of Ron Paul's comments/ideas are borderline crazy.......a small healthy dose of paranoia never hurt anyone.

Deregulation started back in the late 80's with both sides chiming in for it. There have been a few lone voices since 2000 who have warned of the impending dangers.

Believe it or not, McCain & Bush's team have been warning about it since 2003 and Ron Paul since the dawn of man. But, it brings to bear WTF were they thinking when it passed in the first place. Where was the SEC? They failed on this for sure.

Where was the outrage before? My guess is that none of these jokers had any real idea what was coming down the pike before 2003.

Question is, who's judgement do we trust most to keep us from replicating this mess gain going forward in 2009? The up & commer who runs with the pack? Somehow I doubt it.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

so then what do you propose then?

Anarchy of course. What's wrong with being freedom loving?
I am going to make sure I enjoy the turmoil to come :-)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It all starts with our basic fundemental monetary policy of a central bank creating a fiat currency which brings floods of new money and credit out of nothing.

IMO that's just flat-earth hooey. The reality is that even while we used the gold standard, governments simply manipulated the price of gold. It's much easier to manipulate a system where you just print paper, but it can be done with gold too - it just takes a bit more effort.

I think what we need is sound policy, not a return to the 18th century.



Ron Paul crazy talk eh, care to enlighten me as to whats so crazy about his message? I think your wrong to say that his message isnt spreading, he has been bringing up the issues that the american people havnet heard of from any of the other politicians, the amount of support he was able to pick up in the last year is astonishing, there's no flim flamm from him he's fighting the status quo which is an incredibly difficult undertaking.

Ron Paul has several messages - some crazy, and some that aren't. On balance, I find him too far out there to support. That doesn't mean the guy doesn't have some value in bringing up issues that are to entrenched in the status quo for others to touch. I'd rather have him in the back seat yelling at us that we're going the wrong way than have him in the driver's seat, that's all.

[Gat0r]

All the more reason to be on gold since you stated its harder to manipulate. Our system needs to be run by the market to determine the price, Bretton Woods clearly showed that government cannot correctly find the right price. As you said when governments or a central bank are in control of the monetary system they will manipulate it, create inflation for personal gain, and to fund warfare/welfare. There isnt an unlimited supply of gold like paper money so it restricts governments action. We wont be immune from booms and busts thats part of the free market but they will not come near to the severity of a fiat system.

Gold is a sound policy because it has been valuable and always will be, meanwhile paper currency's come and inevitably go, but you think the fiat system is still a sound monetary policy? You think regulations will keep a central bank and politicians from reverting back to the same past actions, its clear that our government doesnt even follow the constitution anymore.

Now if you excuse me while I headd back to Dr. Pauls base on the dark side of the moon. :p

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Our system needs to be run by the market to determine the priceIn many ways this is true but a free and open market can never be proofed against tampering just look at the Hunt brothers the Silver Bubble.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

You think regulations will keep a central bank and politicians from reverting back to the same past actions, its clear that our government doesnt even follow the constitution anymore.


IMO it's merely question of intent, and ability, not what mechanism we choose to use. If the people in charge of monetary policy decide to manipulate it, it'll happen whether it's gold or fiat money. The US government decided to go to the Moon, and they made it happen. If they decided to make gold worth half of what people paid for it, they could likely find a way to make that happen. What's digging junk out of the ground compared to building the Apollo program? Look at DeBeers and how they artificially control what diamonds are worth. I'm sorry but to me the idea of a return to the gold standard is very simplistic and wouldn't fix anything.

[maw]

IMO that's just flat-earth hooey. The reality is that even while we used the gold standard, governments simply manipulated the price of gold. It's much easier to manipulate a system where you just print paper, but it can be done with gold too - it just takes a bit more effort.

the price of gold was stable to within 1% up until the 30's. it was manipulated at the end somewhat but that can be controlled. moving the treasury entirely over to the gold standard probably wouldn't work. if not gold then silver or perhaps platinum, or even a combination like a composite index. the benefits of having a currency tied to a stable commodity is that it forces fiscal responsibility - i.e. the politicians can't just print money (debt) on a whim. the liability is that it has the potential constrict rapid growth, this liability can be offset somewhat through bonds, thereby giving us a hybrid model. if we had a hybrid system that adhered to a strict ratio of reserves vs. fiat money we'd probably have the best of both worlds. the ratio of fiat currency could be set at just above gdp growth, thereby offering money for loans when the economy goes through a growth cycle.

with a fiat model such as the one we have presently, politicians are free to print more money and pass the liabilities (inflation and debt) off to someone else down the line. this is one of the factors that is putting us in the situation we're in. don't get me wrong, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with borrowing and accumulating debt, all nations need to do this from time to time. if a corporation couldn't borrow money from a bank when opportunities arose they'd be unable to capitalize on the opportunity. it is unmanaged and loose fiscal discipline that is the problem and from my eyes a fiat money system appears to encourage such behavior.

for more info i highly recommend googling the former comptroller general of the United States and head of the GAO: david walker. he has some very sobering videos on the web and is behind an independent documentry called I.O.U.S.A which won several awards at sundance.


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ron Paul has several messages - some crazy, and some that aren't. On balance, I find him too far out there to support. That doesn't mean the guy doesn't have some value in bringing up issues that are to entrenched in the status quo for others to touch. I'd rather have him in the back seat yelling at us that we're going the wrong way than have him in the driver's seat, that's all.

on the surface, a lot of what he says comes as radical. but you have to acknowledge that the system is seriously fvcked and you're not going to fix it with some duct tape and rubber bands. unless we radically change several aspects of our government to more constitutionally centered ones the great American experiment is going to implode.

it's tempting to squarely lay the blame on greenspan as i did here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=141505&page=4
it's also abundantly clear that phil gramm bears a chunk of the responsibility for pushing for the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 in 1999 and then within months of W coming into office pushing through the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 which was designed to keep regulators from controlling new financial tools described as credit "swaps." these are instruments like sub-prime mortgages bundled up and sold as securities. under the gramm law, neither the SEC nor the Commodities Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) were able to examine financial institutions like hedge funds or investment banks to guarantee they had the assets necessary to cover losses they were guaranteeing.

but the root of the cancer is more insidious, the American political process is being manipulated by corporate and special interests. across the board, be it the fda, epa, sec, doe i see decisions crafted to benefit corporate interests at a price to average Americans. as citizens we have little to none influence when compared to the army of lobbyists and PAC's. why did gramm a former texas senator give a **** about banking regulations on wall street? he didn't, but someone else did and used him. the inmates are running the asylum and ripping off the American people. until we repeal the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to kick out the Political Action Committee's and send the lobbyists packing our political process will be biased. unfortunately, this being an election period, none of this will come out because the temptation to polarize the blame and make it a partisan issue is too tempting.

thom hartmann writes that to restore democracy we need to abolish corporate personhood:
http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=183&Itemid=38&mosmsg=Thanks%20for%20your%20vote!

a lot of this is somewhat politically radical, but other than nader, ron paul is the only one talking about it. that's why i like him.

[shocker1]

Here is an update on my local economic situation. Gas prices are still nearly $4 per gallon if you can find a station with gas. Mysterious empty places on the grocery shelves all of a sudden, the TVA has increased electric rates 20%, work on certain road projects has all but stopped, mechanic shops are hurting for work, the mall is dead, people are staying home spending little and water rates will increase 25% in 2009.

On the flip side, real estate prices are on the rise. Most likely because of the growth anticipated due to the new VW plant.

[Flagg]

Here is an update on my local economic situation. Gas prices are still nearly $4 per gallon if you can find a station with gas. Mysterious empty places on the grocery shelves all of a sudden, the TVA has increased electric rates 20%, work on certain road projects has all but stopped, mechanic shops are hurting for work, the mall is dead, people are staying home spending little and water rates will increase 25% in 2009.

On the flip side, real estate prices are on the rise. Most likely because of the growth anticipated due to the new VW plant.

Inflation........

The problem is:

Someone robs a bank of a $1000, they go to jail

Central bankers rob citizens of $1000 billion, they don't go to jail

Central bank theft isn't called armed robbery, it's called self destructive monetary policy.

I'm not particularly impressed with my generation or the one before me or the one after me at the moment when it comes to this issue........I'm seriously dumbfounded that people aren't getting all tar and feathery or just plain ole' stabby.

There should be world class protests going on right about now........I don't know...maybe gas is too expensive, or there's a sale at Old Navy, or some new reality TV show on.

Personally, I'd like to see "Who Wants to Tazer a Central Banker".

It certainly will not fix anything, but it would make a lot of people feel a tiny bit better seeing a central bank president losing bladder control.

[shocker1]

I am amazed at the threats and intimidation the FED is using to milk this money from us. I say we should let em fail, Americans tighten up and save, pay off bills and write their elected persons. All of them, it is our duty and millions of upset Americans writing letters does work. I predict we will take the reaming like sheep.

[Flagg]

I am amazed at the threats and intimidation the FED is using to milk this money from us. I say we should let em fail, Americans tighten up and save, pay off bills and write their elected persons. All of them, it is our duty and millions of upset Americans writing letters does work. I predict we will take the reaming like sheep.

While I agree...I think the band-aid that will have the least impact on Americans in the very short-term is a major bailout.

What I find incredibly frightening is when we start talking about the medium to long term.

What happens when businesses that are "too big to fail" are made even bigger by coerced mergers and takeovers?

Isn't it a bit like feeding Mothra and some more plutonium to Godzilla hoping he'll quit making Tokyo his b!tch?

----------------------

I think I'm pretty close to laying it on the line and saying:

I think the chances of seeing a significant loss in average standard of living(33% loss or greater) for the average American as well as America losing it's priceless reserve currency status in the next 10 years is now clearly above 50%.

[brainplay]

I am amazed at the threats and intimidation the FED is using to milk this money from us. I say we should let em fail, Americans tighten up and save, pay off bills and write their elected persons. All of them, it is our duty and millions of upset Americans writing letters does work. I predict we will take the reaming like sheep.

Uh, hate to point this out but its the Americans who can't or flat out won't pay off their bills that is a major part of this quandry.

Even with the bailout they are still going to have to pay off their bills. At some point the US will be able to recoup a decent amount of this sum unless someone proposes they do something crazy like bailout the loan holders in which case it really will cost the US this large amount. Oh wait...

Maybe if we re-instated debtors prison system would people take this more seriously. Then Joe-blow homeowner and Meryll Lynch executive can share the same cell.

[shocker1]

Uh, hate to point this out but its the Americans who can't or flat out won't pay off their bills that is a major part of this quandry.

Even with the bailout they are still going to have to pay off their bills. At some point the US will be able to recoup a decent amount of this sum unless someone proposes they do something crazy like bailout the loan holders in which case it really will cost the US this large amount. Oh wait...

Maybe if we re-instated debtors prison system would people take this more seriously. Then Joe-blow homeowner and Meryll Lynch executive can share the same cell.
Bull****! Most foreclosures are investment properties with variable rates. If not millions would be on the street in boxes like the 80's. There were 6 pages of foreclosures in the paper last week. Investigate it, they are mostly owned by investors who bought more homes with the sudden equity. Not to mention margin trading. Much more complicated than your short sighted blame the people bs. The Fed(international bankers) hold majority shares or are helping pals who do in the failed institutions. So with fear and intimidation they are demanding we borrow the money from them to pay them back for financing the bubble. Yes people did by homes very easy of late, but a banker knows what the percentage of default is on high risk loans. Why did they not care and police the borrowing? Well they can now package up bad loans nearly as soon as they are made and sell them. I would have to look up the former time limit on this type of deal put it was shortened. So the people are not to blame and that is an insult to Americans paying the high price for the elite's games.

Have you read the proposed legislation? You should, I am working on it now. The Government will have the power bail out ANY institution, ANYWHERE. Corporatism in it's most advanced form. Mussolini would be envious. That debtors prison is not far off the mark of what's in store.

This bill should be stopped, irresponsible businesses should fail, homeowners who fail to pay should get the boot. Then good debt will be left and demand will cure the ills. The bail out of insurance companies has logic, the bail out of wall street investment houses who just today changed their status to accept depositors like a real bank is flat criminal.

[domokun]

An politician admitting something... won't happen if there is no gain involved for said scum.

Yeah, Bush and other neo-cons have done quite a job at ruining US gov. economy. As they have been in power they are deserving the blame. Personally I see their economical policy as self imposed scorched earth tactic. Normally when country participates in a war, taxes are increased to cover costs (and in US sold war bonds). Bush admin has done exactly opposite, I see it as funny in ironic sense.

And to main topic...

Banking mess... in the end government has to step in cover on losses of banking system, if don't collapse will cause more wide damage to society. Real criminals involved, by this I mean CEO's of those banks get nice bonus in form of so called golden parachute. Personally I'd loved to shoot the SOB's. But going for personal gain is the spirit of capitalism, screw rest. If some dies or suffers as collateral damage that happens. Why should they care?

[Macs.]

There should be world class protests going on right about now........I don't know...maybe gas is too expensive, or there's a sale at Old Navy, or some new reality TV show on.

Because this whole thing is too abstract to most people I believe. Even when they hear the news about how horrible it is, they cannot gasp just how much money this is and that this will affect their everyday lives.

[Kaplanr]

I'm quite familiar with international funds transfers......there are numerous safeguards put in place to ensure there aren't "accidents" or "errors".

The "accident" is someone noticed.

[vryhpyammoadded]

It’s really amazing to me how so many facilitators of this fiasco in Congress are not being hauled out of their offices by mobs and whipped publicly in the streets. Wait, how many time have I said that quote these past few years? Anyway, these creeps were warned years ago yet the lure of easy money has been and always will be their priority.

Meanwhile the majority of voters this election season seem to be completely clueless to this fact and have their vengeance fixated on all the wrong targets.
I’ve been saying all along we need to purge Congress and especially the Party’s completely, exchange the House and Senate and the party elites for new faces without the old entrenched corruption connections; a complete throwing out of the baby with the bath water.

Still, the majority of people fixate only on the executive or the businessman and worse yet, fall for the old party blame shell game.

I doubt there are any long term fixes for this economic issue. The lure of wealth can always find ways to bypass or warp regulation to the benefit of some and the detriment of others via the Legislatures and public avarice. Marx got that one part right but I still vehemently disagree with the later socialist adaptations of his theory to amend this bit of human nature. One cannot have utopia, people won’t allow it.

I’m all for a limited bailout, enough to possibly prevent the bottom from dropping out. But I demand personal, business and governmental accountability be strictly enforced. The worst need to fail and some even punished and I'm all for a little 19th, early 20th century trust busting. What I don’t want is for people to get swept up with emotion, follow some demagogue and empower him to do something stupid like moving the US even closer to the socialist nanny state once everyone’s living standard plummets.
I agree with Flagg, my own research keeps bringing up around a 30%+ average loss by the time this ride bottoms.

Still feverishly prepping my Gulch.

[Nano]

A yes the blame game. All both sides need is a neutral party we can all love to hate. A well paid off fall guy anyone? **** I'd sign on for that job then buy some gold, silver, and real estate after it has hit bottom. 10 -15 years in a minimum security prison. Where do I sign on for CFO of evil investment bank or regulatory body who looked the other way. Lehman, AIG, Mr. Paulson, and (insert next bank to fail) you can contact me via mp.net.