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Dennis G
06-09-2004, 10:32 AM
This ****ing ass its at it again



REAGAN'S SHAMEFUL LEGACY

Mourn for Us, Not the Proto-Bush
NEW YORK--For a few weeks, it became routine. I heard them dragging luggage down the hall. They paused in a little lounge near the dormitory elevator to bid farewell to people they'd met during their single semester. Those I knew knocked on my door. "What are you going to do?" I asked. "Where are you going to go?" A shrug. They were eighteen years old and their bright futures had evaporated. They had worked hard in junior and senior high school, harder than most, but none of that mattered now. President Reagan, explained the form letters from the Office of Financial Aid, had slashed the federal education budget. Which is why the same grim tableau of shattered hopes and dreams was playing itself out across the country. Colleges and universities were evicting their best and brightest, straight A students, stripping them of scholarships. Some transferred to less-expensive community colleges; others dropped into the low-wage workforce. Now, nearly a quarter century later, they are still less financially secure and less educated than they should have been. Our nation is poorer for having denied them their potential.

They were by no means the hardest-hit victims of Reaganism. Reagan's quack economists trashed scholarships and turned welfare recipients into homeless people and refused to do anything about the AIDS epidemic, all so they could fund extravagant tax cuts for a tiny sliver of the ultra rich. Their supply-side sales pitch, that the rich would buy so much stuff from everybody else that the economy would boom and government coffers would fill up, never panned out. The Reagan boom lasted just three years and created only low-wage jobs. When the '80s were over, we were buried in the depths of recession and a trillion bucks in debt. Poverty grew, cities decayed, crime rose. It took over a decade to dig out.

Reagan's defenders, people who don't know the facts or choose to ignore them, claim that "everybody" admired Reagan's ebullient personality even if some disagreed with his politics. That, like the Gipper's tall tales about welfare queens and "homeless by choice" urban campers, is a lie. Millions of Americans cringed at Reagan's simplistic rhetoric, were terrified that his anti-Soviet "evil empire" posturing would provoke World War III, and thought that his appeal to selfishness and greed--a bastardized blend of Adam Smith and Ayn Rand--brought out the worst in us. We rolled our eyes when Reagan quipped "There you go again"; what the hell did that mean? Given that he made flying a living hell (by firing the air traffic controllers and regulating the airlines), I'm not the only one who refuses to call Washington National Airport by its new name. His clown-like dyed hair and rouged cheeks disgusted us. We hated him during the dark days he made so hideous, and, with all due respect, we hate him still.

Not everybody buys the myth that Reagan won the Cold War by demanding that Mikhail Gorbachev "tear down this [Berlin] wall" or bankrupting the Soviet Union via the arms race--Zbigniew Brezinski's plot to "draw the Russians into the Afghan trap" by funding the mujahedeen, Chernobyl and covert U.S. schemes to destabilize the ruble had more to do with the end of the USSR. Gangsterism replaced the ossified cult of the state, millions of Russians were reduced to paupers, revived radical Islamism in Central Asia and eliminated our sole major ideological and military rival. That increased our arrogance and insularity, left us in charge of the world and to blame for everything, paving the road to 9/11. (Reagan even armed the attacks' future perpetrators.) Anyway, the Cold War isn't over. In which direction do you think those old ICBMs point today?

The lionizers are correct about one thing: Reagan was one of our most influential presidents since FDR, whose New Deal safety net he carefully disassembled. He pioneered policies now being implemented by George W. Bush: trickle down economics, corporate deregulation, radicalizing the courts, slithering around inconvenient laws and international treaties. On the domestic front, he unraveled America's century-old social contract. What the poor needed was a kick in the ass, not a handout, said a president whose wealthy patrons bought him a house and put clothes on his wife Nancy. National parks were to be exploited for timber and oil, not protected. The federal tax code, originally conceived to redistribute wealth from top to bottom, was "reformed" to eradicate social justice.

Bush also models his approach to foreign policy on that of the original Teflon President. Reagan elevated unjustifiable military action to an art. In 1983, anxious to look tough after cutting and running from Lebanon, Reagan sent marines to topple the Marxist government of Grenada. His pretext for invading this Caribbean island was the urgent plight of 500 medical students supposedly besieged by rampaging mobs. But when they arrived at the airport in the United States, the quizzical young men and women told reporters they were confused, never having felt endangered or seen any unrest.

In a bizarre 1985 effort to free a few American hostages being held in Lebanon, Reagan authorized the sale of 107 tons of anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, at the time one of our staunchest enemies, with the proceeds to be used to fund rightist death squads in Nicaragua--something Congress had expressly forbidden him to do. Evidence strongly suggests that Iran-Contra was at least his second dirty deal with Islamic Iran, the first being the October Surprise, which delayed the release of the Iranian embassy hostages until after the 1980 election was over. Ronald Reagan eventually admitted to "trading arms for hostages," yet avoided prosecution for treason and the death penalty.

Reagan, like Bush 43, technically served in the military yet studiously avoided combat. Both men were physically robust, intellectually inadequate, poorly traveled former governors renowned for stabbing friends on the back--Reagan when he named names during McCarthyism. Both appointed former generals as secretaries of state and enemies of the environment to head the Department of the Interior. Both refused to read detailed briefings, worked short hours, behaved erratically in public appearances, ducked questions about sordid pasts, and relied on Christianist (the radical right equivalent of Islamist) depictions of foes as "evil" and America, invariably as embodied by himself and the Republicans, as "good." Based on intelligence as phony as that floated to justify the war against Iraq, Reagan bombed Muslim Libya.

AOCBravo2004
06-09-2004, 10:46 AM
Yeah, WTF!?!?! Reagan was disqualified from a combat role due to a medical condition. Sheesh, what an A-hole. I guess there is nothing like kicking a dead 93-yr old victim of alzheimers once he is down and out. :roll:

Gringo
06-09-2004, 10:55 AM
There's no pleasing some people

"That's just what Jesus said!"

2Sheds_Jackson
06-09-2004, 11:43 AM
rofl

Yes, it's a sign that like him, we should all remove one shoe.

Yeah, here come the Reagan detractors. They were wrong during the 80's and they're still wrong now. They can go fawn over that Great Statesman and utter failure Jimmy Carter for all I care.

Gringo
06-09-2004, 12:09 PM
rofl

Yes, it's a sign that like him, we should all remove one shoe.


It's a sandal not shoe!

2Sheds_Jackson
06-09-2004, 01:25 PM
rofl

Yes, it's a sign that like him, we should all remove one shoe.


It's a sandal not shoe!

You're right! I forgot...

Fintin
06-09-2004, 02:39 PM
turns up the 80s punk...

Gringo
06-09-2004, 03:54 PM
turns up the 80s punk...

"London calling......."

"Hello Ron it's Margret here" :D

pinkeye
06-09-2004, 04:21 PM
punk owes you a huge debt of gratitude to reagan!!! just imagine how crappy punk would have been had a competent president been in office!!!

http://www.quickchange.com/reagan/index.html

Dennis G
06-09-2004, 04:27 PM
punk owes you a huge debt of gratitude to reagan!!! just imagine how crappy punk would have been had a competent president been in office!!!

http://www.quickchange.com/reagan/index.html



:roll:

Gringo
06-09-2004, 04:30 PM
punk owes you a huge debt of gratitude to reagan!!! just imagine how crappy punk would have been had a competent president been in office!!!

http://www.quickchange.com/reagan/index.html

A competent President?

I think a competent politician would be needed first.

Tane Angle
06-09-2004, 04:31 PM
We can't even let the man get in the ground before people start picking at him? Hey, I'm not a big fan myself, but I'd say that there is a moratorium period until the funeral is over. If peopel really want to discuss his policies in a few days, go for it, but can we hold out a little bit longer? This isn't necessarily directed at you guys so much as the people who print that stuff.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

pinkeye
06-09-2004, 04:43 PM
We can't even let the man get in the ground before people start picking at him? Hey, I'm not a big fan myself, but I'd say that there is a moratorium period until the funeral is over. If peopel really want to discuss his policies in a few days, go for it, but can we hold out a little bit longer? This isn't necessarily directed at you guys so much as the people who print that stuff.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

perhaps, but i know some latin americans, among many others, who would disagree with giving the old gipper a break...

fisheyestudio
06-09-2004, 04:47 PM
forget the shoe...follow the gourd!



I saw part of an interview on Hannity and Colmbs last night, and I think this person was the guest. If so, He seemed like a very small man.

My own perceptions of Reagon were influenced by a show on PBS that dramtised the arms talks with the soviets. Reagon was portrayed as a weak fool. I really bought into that since I had no other point of reference. Then there was that Phil collins video were Reagan accidentally fired the nukes.(great song though...). As I have gotten older, the more history I study the more my perception of Reagan has changed. He was just a man, but I do beleive He was a great man.

Dont forget to eat all the juniper berries....

Jesus blessings!

Gringo
06-09-2004, 05:01 PM
forget the shoe...follow the gourd!

"I haven't said a word for 18 years til he came along"
"A Miracle! A Miracle! He is the Missiah!"

Seoulstriker
06-09-2004, 06:39 PM
That f***er also says that Regan is getting a nice brown crisp right now!
:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:

Deuterium
06-09-2004, 07:03 PM
The main point of contention has always been the Iran Contra affair. It always struck me as strange being that this whole affair was done to free hostages. This wasn't some stunt to keep a man in office, boost ratings, get some ****** favors from an overweight intern, or personal or financial gain. This was to free Americans held hostage. But when your only point is to gore the opposition anything is fair. Rant on...

Dennis G
06-09-2004, 07:17 PM
That f***er also says that Regan is getting a nice brown crisp right now!
:fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork: :fork:

Yeah I saw that too, I tell you the left has no shame

Durandal
06-09-2004, 07:47 PM
The main point of contention has always been the Iran Contra affair...Rant on...

I'll table this one since I (sorry Tane :) ) liked Reagan...more the man the politician, but I still liked him as my president regardless of political conflicts.

Iran/Contra was illegal. That was the whole point. Nor did it solve problems. Rather it created more. More hostages were taken as a result of "dealing" rahter than either not dealing with them or kicking the hell out of them.

I also think that, as strong as he was, he should have stood tall and siad he did it...which he did not.

His one failing in my eye, and an important one.

With that said, I agree with Tane. Crap like this is rediculous. This is also being used for a single sole purpose....to slam George Bush. I find ANY comparisons of Reagan to Bush Jr. insulting, whether they be positive or negative...because, at this point in the year, they are ALL being used to serve a poltical purpose...

Tane Angle
06-09-2004, 08:07 PM
What are you apologizing for? :D I'd probably have liked the guy too if it weren't for his bad calls on the POWs and hostages. ;)

Having said that, I thought we were playing it nice for a few more days? ;)

California Joe
06-09-2004, 08:34 PM
Tane brings up a great point. When it comes right down to it we form opinions based on the way a leader addresses the issues we care deeply about. Not taking into account personal interaction with the man. There's a huge difference.

Tane Angle
06-09-2004, 09:04 PM
You get the credit for that point, I didn't realize I was bringing it up. ;) Another point you brought up was personal interaction. From what I understand, Reagan was not very good at interacting one on one, but could interact extremely well with crowds/the nation. He conveyed a "likeable guy" image, no?

California Joe
06-09-2004, 09:12 PM
Hell, even the children of killers say "Dad was a great guy, he took me fishing"

Reagan was great at personal interaction. Hell, he was an actor. I said before how I knew uniformed Secret Service guys that were in the White House at the time that he joked with and noticed the new guys and spoke to them in the halls. It's a great quality for a leader. Remembering the people's names. Those guys probably cried when they heard he died regardless of the fact that one of his economic policies put less money in their pocket. It's all about perception.

MKtexan
06-09-2004, 09:52 PM
I dont even need to read what this looser has to say to know what the content will be. Did anyone here see him on Hannity And Colmes last night?

here it is

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122264,00.html

Dennis G
06-09-2004, 11:23 PM
^^ Yes the man is deplorable

Kilgor
06-09-2004, 11:27 PM
I hope to wake up one day and see in the news " ted rall gunned down outside home"

Mr Gently Benevolent
06-10-2004, 07:09 AM
I hope to wake up one day and see in the news " ted rall gunned down outside home"
Gee some of you guys are not keen on voices of dissent. :lol:

Durandal
06-10-2004, 09:32 AM
Having said that, I thought we were playing it nice for a few more days? ;)

We always play nice...

Its all about respect. ;)