Christianity growing fast in Mongolia

[Ordie]

Christianity growing fast in Mongolia

Missionaries convert thousands while Buddhists fear losing traditional culture

Michael Kohn, Chronicle Foreign Service
Thursday, September 18, 2008
[/URL] [URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/09/18/MNEH12HF9U.DTL&o=1&type=printable"] (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/09/18/MNEH12HF9U.DTL&o=0&type=printable)



(09-18) 04:00 PDT Ulan Bator, Mongolia -- Mitch Tillman is an unlikely savior. Six years ago, the Baptist missionary languished in an Alabama jail, facing a prison sentence on drug charges. Today he builds hospitals, feeds street children and saves souls in Mongolia.
For Christian missionaries like Tillman, Mongolia is the new El Dorado. Since communist rule ended in 1990, some 60,000 Mongolians have turned to Christianity, according to records kept by Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists, other Protestant churches and Catholics.
"A lot of my friends were becoming Christian, so I decided to learn something about the faith," said L. Chimgee, 18, a student at Ulan Bator's Technical University. "I went on a weekend retreat to a Christian camp in the countryside. It was a lot of fun and I felt a real sense of community. So I joined the church."
Tillman, who was acquitted of cocaine possession in 2002, believes prayers secured his freedom. Once out of jail, the Chattanooga native sold his auto body business and moved to Mongolia where his father, a Baptist pastor, had established a mission.
"As Mongolia enters a new era of freedom and democracy, people are looking for something different," said Tillman, a 53-year-old father of six, whose family includes three adopted Mongolian children. "They are looking for hope and a better life for their children. I think that Christ will give them that."
Monks alarmed

But the campaign to convert Mongolians has set off alarm bells in the ancient hallways of Gandan Monastery, the nation's largest Buddhist complex with 800 monks. Senior monk Khunhur Byambajav says he is concerned that fewer Mongolians are coming to his monastery.
"It's a problem of money. (Christian) missionaries have money to build schools and educate young people. They entice them by various means," said Byambajav, referring to gifts offered by churches such as food, clothing and scholarships to study abroad. "We cannot financially compete, but we have to try, otherwise we won't have enough young people becoming Buddhist."
Tillman's Harbor Evangelism International, for example, operates two hospitals, an orphanage, a soup kitchen and an alcohol recovery program in a country where alcoholism is rampant even among some Buddhist monks, some observers say.
"Our Mongolian Buddhist monasteries are weak," said L. Odonchimed, a former member of parliament. "They get money from people but don't give much back. Missionaries give things away for free and help people - that is what a religious organization should do."
Unregistered groups

Byambajav says he is most concerned about unregistered Christian groups, which he says indoctrinate children, convince Buddhists to burn religious articles and even destroy stupas (a mound-like structure that symbolizes enlightenment). "There is no control over these groups and no one is paying attention to what they are doing."
In a nation that separates church and state like the United States, Byambajav has asked the government to make Buddhism the state religion. He argues that the nation needs a law giving monks state funds and allowing the teaching of Buddhism in public schools.
"We sent a letter to the government to change the law on religion, but foreign religious organizations are very strong and wealthy," said Byambajav. "They influence the decisions of politicians because they give them money. So it puts us at a disadvantage."
Back to Buddhism

Odonchimed, the former legislator, agrees that many Mongolians are attracted by the services offered by church groups. But he predicts they will be eventually ignored as the nation's economy develops.
"As time passes, people will have less need for these missionaries and they will be forgotten," he said. "Most people will turn back to Buddhism."
In the meantime, the Federation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition, an Oregon-based nonprofit Buddhist organization, is using a Western approach to win converts. The group has opened schools in monasteries and at its center in Ulan Bator.
"Mongolian religion needs to adapt to modern times," said Ueli Minder, the Swiss head of the federation. "Young Mongolians have little knowledge of Buddhism because the monasteries don't teach the faith to laypeople. It's our goal to help people understand the roots of the culture and the religion."
Western methods

Byambajav says Gandan monastery is also using Western methods, including a radio program, and plans to open several private schools and launch a television station.
Minder, however, concedes that Buddhist monks are facing a daunting challenge when going up against Christian missionaries: proselytizing is an alien concept for most of them.
"It should not become a missionary religion, but we need to have a strategy to overcome the negative propaganda of the past and the propaganda of missionary work," said Minder. "The lamas (Tibetan/Mongolian monks) need to learn to defend their beliefs ... regain the people's confidence."
Christianity in Buddhist Mongolia

Until religion was banned in 1921 by a Communist regime, most Mongolians followed Tibetan Buddhism. New freedom following the collapse of communism in 1990 legalized Buddhism and reopened monasteries. But it also opened the gates to outside faiths.
Currently, 50 percent of Mongolians are Tibetan Buddhists, 6 percent are Shamanist and Christians and 4 percent are Muslims. About 40 percent say they practice no religion, according to CIA data.
The challenge to keep the Buddhist faithful from converting to Christianity is hampered by language. Monks chant in Tibetan, which most Mongolians do not understand. Christian sermons and bibles are given and written in Mongolian.
According to records kept by church groups operating in Mongolia, there are 60,000 Christians - a 20 percent increase over the past eight years. The government keeps no statistics on religious affiliation.
In the capital, Ulan Bator, where half the nation's Christians reside, according to a U.S. State Department report, churches are located in prominent neighborhoods, including a five-story Mormon tabernacle situated next to the city's most luxurious hotel. Residents can also watch Christian programs via Eagle TV, a satellite channel funded by American Protestants.
U.S.-style revivals are also common, including charismatic pastors giving fiery sermons to packed halls. These services include rock music, flashing neon lights and high-tech videos beamed across large screens. Clear plastic boxes overflow with donations and teens can sign up to participate in rural "Jesus Camps."
"It's a release from the status quo," said American Baptist minister Mitch Tillman. "For so many years they were under Buddhism and then they were oppressed by communism. They want something new and they find it in Jesus Christ."


source:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/18/MNEH12HF9U.DTL&type=printable

[The Balkan]

Well that sucks. Buddhism is imo one of the best and most sensible religons around, if not the most. This "Mitch" guy sounds like a douche honestly. Missionaries in this day and age are generaly annoying and the whole concept is arrogant.

[Blue_0]

Not a fan of missionaries, but it could be worse .. they could be being coverted to radical Islam.

[Jaeger07]

Uhm, not a big fan of religion... BUT, christianity is better than, say, islamofacism...

[The Balkan]

Uhm, not a big fan of religion... BUT, christianity is better than, say, islamofacism...

Didn't know that was an official religion now.



They do have missionaries though.

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0507/Nahr_al_Bared_Palestinian_terrorist_camp.jpg

[dava]

All these reports about growing christianity in China and Mongolia are to some extent wishful thinking.
I m an exchange student right now and have some chinese friends (from chongqing and shanghai). They do say that more and more chinese go to church but the big majority of them are faking their beliefs just to reap the benefits the church is offering them.

They still are chinese after all, money matters more than belief.

[Murus]

All these reports about growing christianity in China and Mongolia are to some extent wishful thinking.
I m an exchange student right now and have some chinese friends (from chongqing and shanghai). They do say that more and more chinese go to church but the big majority of them are faking their beliefs just to reap the benefits the church is offering them.

They still are chinese after all, money matters more than belief.


You don't have to be chinese to think so. Most of the people seems to be believer, but they just go to the church each Sunday. Sadly, but I feel, it is mostly true for cristianity.

[I can't think of a name]

Why are you guys so worried about people spreading Christianity? It is helping improve a lot of people's lives.

Another thing to note is the hypocrisy of western liberals when it comes to western missionaries in Africa and Asia. Here int he west we must be multicultural and allow other beliefs take precedent over more native cultural values. However when it comes to countries in Asia you have governments trying to stamp out Christianity.

I have no problem with a free-market on religion but it seems that Christianity is more repressed than any other religion both in the West and the developing world. This article is evidence of that fact due to how foreign politicians can openly discuss banning Christianity while if you talk about the same with Islam in the West you a racist xenophobe.

I would say that these developing nations are just as xenophobic or more so than westerners when it comes to outside beliefs.

There is also a strong pattern of Christianity flourishing in former Marxist states. Like Mongolia, China is experiencing rapid growth. When you are taught the religion of state, and then that state disappears people feel something lacking in their lives. Many people feel there is more to life than just making money.

The Ted Koppel show on Discovery did a good job explaining this.

[Invisigoth]

Christianity growing fast in Mongolia

Good for them...not.

[Macs.]

[/size][/b]Good for them...not.


Well, it could be worse. Like Islam for example.

Atheism should be growing...

[Lau]

Well, it could be worse. Like Islam for example.

Atheism should be growing...

No. Islam and Christianity is about the same.

Radical Christians and Radical Muslims are equally f.ucked up, so no, Islam is not better, nor worse than Christianity.

[VAMAN]

No. Islam and Christianity is about the same.

Radical Christians and Radical Muslims are equally f.ucked up, so no, Islam is not better, nor worse than Christianity.
Yes very true.

[Macs.]

No. Islam and Christianity is about the same.

Radical Christians and Radical Muslims are equally f.ucked up, so no, Islam is not better, nor worse than Christianity.

But Islam is today producing the most and some of the most horrible nutjobs. That's just how it is.

I am not advocating any religion, I see this from (at least I believe) neutral point of view.

[zxc]

But Islam is today producing the most and some of the most horrible nutjobs. That's just how it is.

I am not advocating any religion, I see this from (at least I believe) neutral point of view.

Agreed. Look what happened to Chechnya after Soviet Union...:|

[Behan]

Where exactly are these radical Christians, and what type of shenanigans are they up to these days?


No. Islam and Christianity is about the same.

Radical Christians and Radical Muslims are equally f.ucked up, so no, Islam is not better, nor worse than Christianity.

[Far]

Where exactly are these radical Christians, and what type of shenanigans are they up to these days?yeah...going around praying for the sick, feeding the hungry, sharing the message of God's love, giving hope to the masses...radical selfish bastards!!
TRUE Christianity is different than most of us have witnessed unfortunately.

[SrB-23Q]

i would personaly find it insulting if a missionary of any religion tried to get me to convert.
im sort of embarresed that Christian missionaries still to these things in the 21st century.

[PeterRJG]

No. Islam and Christianity is about the same.

Radical Christians and Radical Muslims are equally f.ucked up, so no, Islam is not better, nor worse than Christianity.

Islam and Christianity aren't the same. Christianity is a religion for most of its adherents. They go to church on Sundays, sing a few songs, roll on the floor if they're that way inclined, put money on the plate and go home and do their thing for the next six days.

Islam is a lifestyle. Nearly every aspect of your waking hours are governed by either the Koran or haditha. Nearly everything - how you wash yourself, how you pray, where you pray, the food you eat, everything.

Muslims don't go to church on a Sunday. They're in church 24/7.

So, they're not the same, not by any stretch.

[Behan]

How could any rational adult possibly be insulted by such a thing?

People try to sell me crap all day long. Ads in papers, ads on TV, ads on the radio, billboards, sides of busses, etc., etc.

If I took the effort to get offended every time someone tried to sell me something or tell me how great something was, it would be very difficult to make it through a single day without becoming homicidal or suicidal.

How about a simple, "Thanks, but I'm not really interested," and you go your seperate ways.

As the character John Winger in the movie Stripes would say, "Lighten up, Francis."


i would personaly find it insulting if a missionary of any religion tried to get me to convert.
im sort of embarresed that Christian missionaries still to these things in the 21st century.

[The Balkan]

Where exactly are these radical Christians, and what type of shenanigans are they up to these days?


India, Africa and what remains of the KKK in the US.

[Behan]

The KKK, eh? Yeah. They're a really serious problem these days.

Anyway, my question was a 2-part-er----What shenanigans, pray tell, are these radical Christians participating in that warrants such animosity?


India, Africa and what remains of the KKK in the US.

[pacifist]

Sad.

Uneducated people are easily suckered in to believing superstitious nonsense.

[The Balkan]

The KKK, eh? Yeah. They're a really serious problem these days.

Anyway, my question was a 2-part-er----What shenanigans, pray tell, are these radical Christians participating in that warrants such animosity?

That's why I said "what remains of".

And what animosity? I don't think anyone showed animosity towards christians, just the missionary and reliigon as a whole.


Here's one gem of naughty Christians though.

On July 26, 2007, 17 Christians from Poso, Indonesia, were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law. Fourteen year sentences were given to two of the seventeen for their main roles in the killings, while ten were sentenced to twelve year terms. Five were convicted in separate hearings and received eight year sentences for their part in the "acts of terrorism by the use of violence." A Christian mob attacked, murdered, and beheaded two Muslim fishermen in September 2006, reportedly as retaliation for the execution in 2006 of three Christian farmers, who were convicted of leading a militant group which killed hundreds of Muslims in Poso in 2000, an execution that attracted a plea for clemency from the pope, and accusations from Amnesty International that the trial was unfair.

[Behan]

That's why I said "what remains of"..

Noted. I will make sure that both of those guys in Alabama get word that they are on you list.


And what animosity? I don't think anyone showed animosity towards christians, just the missionary and reliigon as a whole."

So nobody showed animosity toward Christians, they were simply showing animosity toward Christianity. Gotcha.


Here's one gem of naughty Christians though.

On July 26, 2007, 17 Christians from Poso, Indonesia, were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law. Fourteen year sentences were given to two of the seventeen for their main roles in the killings, while ten were sentenced to twelve year terms. Five were convicted in separate hearings and received eight year sentences for their part in the "acts of terrorism by the use of violence." A Christian mob attacked, murdered, and beheaded two Muslim fishermen in September 2006, reportedly as retaliation for the execution in 2006 of three Christian farmers, who were convicted of leading a militant group which killed hundreds of Muslims in Poso in 2000, an execution that attracted a plea for clemency from the pope, and accusations from Amnesty International that the trial was unfair.

That is quite a gem you found there. If you get a chance to actually read up on the figting in and around Poso, please feel free to drop by and correct your assertion.

[The Balkan]

Noted. I will make sure that both of those guys in Alabama get word that they are on you list.



So nobody showed animosity toward Christians, they were simply showing animosity toward Christianity. Gotcha.



That is quite a gem you found there. If you get a chance to actually read up on the figting in and around Poso, please feel free to drop by and correct your assertion.

No, towards missionary work. ANY missionary work. OF ANY religion. Try to see the difference.

I don't get you. You ask for an example of Christians doing terrible things, I give it, you tell me read about it. Why? So I can see something like "they were provoked by Muslims who did it to them first?". As if that makes it any better to go around beheading people. Please, spare me the double standard. All these people are trash.

[Behan]

You provided an example of a Muslim country where the extreme violence by the 87% Muslim majority against the 8% Christian minority has been a topic of enormous international outrage--where young Christian girls are regularly beheaded and their severed heads left on Church steps. Then there is this single, isolated incident which many people doubt even occurred (at least in the manner the Muslim court system described it), and use that as an example that modern Christianity is equal to modern Jihadists.

And you don't get me?

[Mu-Meson]

That's why I said "what remains of".

And what animosity? I don't think anyone showed animosity towards christians, just the missionary and reliigon as a whole.


Here's one gem of naughty Christians though.

On July 26, 2007, 17 Christians from Poso, Indonesia, were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law. Fourteen year sentences were given to two of the seventeen for their main roles in the killings, while ten were sentenced to twelve year terms. Five were convicted in separate hearings and received eight year sentences for their part in the "acts of terrorism by the use of violence." A Christian mob attacked, murdered, and beheaded two Muslim fishermen in September 2006, reportedly as retaliation for the execution in 2006 of three Christian farmers, who were convicted of leading a militant group which killed hundreds of Muslims in Poso in 2000, an execution that attracted a plea for clemency from the pope, and accusations from Amnesty International that the trial was unfair.

In the month of August, there were over 200 terror attacks by radical Islamists, which killed over 1000 people. I await your list of 200 terror attacks killing a similar number of people by radical Christians. Don't worry, I'll wait.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[Behan]

Not attempting to start a "Religion X is better than Religion Y" or "any religion is better than no religion at all" argument. I personally don't care what anyone else believes. People are going to kill people, and them's the facts. At one time it was Christians doing it in mass numbers (inquisition, etc.). At one point it was Atheists (Stalin).

It just so happens that at this particular moment in time, there exists a large group of radical Muslims who would be very happy to destroy most of the Free World, and in a CBRNE world, that should scare you much more than any Bible-thumper preacher on a late night infomercial or some annoying Jehovah Witness ringing your doorbell too early on a Saturday morning.

Any person who takes an honest look at what is going on in the world right now and concludes that "Christians are no better" than Al Qaeda should have--as my young neice would put it--a "check up from the neck up."

[Mordoror]

Religions at their Best :
Catholicism

http://images.imagehotel.net/5k6fk100zr.jpg (http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=5k6fk100zr.jpg)


Protestantism

http://images.imagehotel.net/fnmvp190ol.jpg (http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=fnmvp190ol.jpg)

Islamism

http://images.imagehotel.net/yh6snrcle6.jpg (http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=yh6snrcle6.jpg)

Even Bouddhism

http://images.imagehotel.net/c2t0l7593v.jpg (http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=c2t0l7593v.jpg)


Yes every single religion was used for political achievments leading to wars / tortures / totalitarism
the religions are not bad by themselves but the use of them done by men for their political achievments and purposes corrupted the original messages

Let the Mongol stay Bouddhists and do not allow missionaries in this country (as the missionaries are the first step for some foreign countries to enter and afterward to have a leverage point on your every day internal policy)

[Behan]

Mordoror, Magistrate of Mongorians!

[Behan]

I, for one, will gladly welcome the Mongorians into the RC fold, but first they are going to have to start riding the big boy horses.

[The Balkan]

You provided an example of a Muslim country where the extreme violence by the 87% Muslim majority against the 8% Christian minority has been a topic of enormous international outrage--where young Christian girls are regularly beheaded and their severed heads left on Church steps. Then there is this single, isolated incident which many people doubt even occurred (at least in the manner the Muslim court system described it), and use that as an example that modern Christianity is equal to modern Jihadists.

And you don't get me?

You keep lying. Stop it lmao. Show me where I said "equal" to Jihadis, ANYWHERE. No you said that yourself trying to twist my words.

All I did was simply answer to the "show me an example of Christian terror". That's it. It exists and there is tons more examples. And yes you're right there is way more examples of Islamic terror today.

For people like you no answer is good enough though, it'll always come back to "Muslims are spawns of Satan, blah blah". Cuz you scared.

[Ordie]

I'm sorry that this thread became a pissing match.

Historically Mongols have been more facinated by religion but not dominated by it. It has been said that Ghengis Khan's mother was Nestorian Christian.

Heglu Khan's wife was Christian and at her behest spared the Christians of Baghdad when the Mongols sacked the city.

In turn many of the Mongol Hordes after several generations became Muslims as in the case in Persia and India (Mughals).

Ghengis Khan spared the Buddhist monastaries and adopted Tibetian Buddhism as the state religion.

I would not jump to conclusions on how the American evangelical impact will be on Mongolian society. Keep in mind that next the Philippines (Catholic) , S. Korea is the second largest Asian Christian (Protestant) country.

[Mu-Meson]

Religions at their Best :
Catholicism

[/URL]


Protestantism

(http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=5k6fk100zr.jpg)

Islamism



Even Bouddhism

[URL="http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=c2t0l7593v.jpg"] (http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=yh6snrcle6.jpg)


Yes every single religion was used for political achievments leading to wars / tortures / totalitarism
the religions are not bad by themselves but the use of them done by men for their political achievments and purposes corrupted the original messages

Let the Mongol stay Bouddhists and do not allow missionaries in this country (as the missionaries are the first step for some foreign countries to enter and afterward to have a leverage point on your every day internal policy)

You don't find it odd how only one of those examples is from the modern day? I ain't denying ALL religions have there darker, negative sides with intolerance, violence, and suffering being a part of that, but some religions have pushed the radicals outside (mostly) of the mainstream, and have marginalized them. What I am arguing is how that degree is different between Islam and other religions. Say 1-2% of Christians are violent nutjobs. Sure. Islam? Ten times that? Fifteen? Twenty? That's the difference. Sure they make the 98% of Christians look bad, and the 100%-X of Muslims look bad, but to come back to any criticism of radical Islam with the old "But Christians/Buddhists/Flying Spagetti Monsterists are just as bad" is totally false. And I am not talking in theological terms or anything like that. I am talking in numbers of dead, wounded, attacks, etc. Arguing otherwise is just trying to minimize the problem, and marginalizes the thousands of victims.

[The Balkan]

In the month of August, there were over 200 terror attacks by radical Islamists, which killed over 1000 people. I await your list of 200 terror attacks killing a similar number of people by radical Christians. Don't worry, I'll wait.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

In 1982, in just 2 days, a Christian millitia, killed 700-3500 civilians in Lebanon during the Sabra and Shatila massacre.

in 1995, Christian soldiers and paramillitary (who were blessed by a priest before the actual act) executed around 8,000 civilians in Srebrenica in a matter of days. The famous line by the general before the actual act was "and now, we get revenge on the Turks". it was all recorded on video.

Maybe you heard of it?

p-)


But look I'm honestly tired of this old, old, OLD, argument. I regret entering it. If you want to see me as a bloodthirsty maniac who rapes and claughters children cuz I come from a certain ethnoreligious background then go ahed.

[Mordoror]

You don't find it odd how only one of those examples is from the modern day? I ain't denying ALL religions have there darker, negative sides with intolerance, violence, and suffering being a part of that, but some religions have pushed the radicals outside (mostly) of the mainstream, and have marginalized them. What I am arguing is how that degree is different between Islam and other religions. Say 1-2% of Christians are violent nutjobs. Sure. Islam? Ten times that? Fifteen? Twenty? That's the difference. Sure they make the 98% of Christians look bad, and the 100%-X of Muslims look bad, but to come back to any criticism of radical Islam with the old "But Christians/Buddhists/Flying Spagetti Monsterists are just as bad" is totally false. And I am not talking in theological terms or anything like that. I am talking in numbers of dead, wounded, attacks, etc. Arguing otherwise is just trying to minimize the problem, and marginalizes the thousands of victims.

i understand what you mean (and partially agree with that, in fact i was expecting someone to take note of the fact)
but - As i said the dark side of the actual religions are linked to their political connoted side
catholicism was one of the first responsible for mass murders and war crimes (Ok other times, other rules but still) but evolved in a waestern world where much of the function between church and state are somehow separated (even if there is some hypocrisy in some states)
protestantism passed by the same pathway
actually it s islam where the mix between political and religion is the most obvious and so where the effect on an overall violence level is at its height...

but but but nobody knowns what the future will look like, given the rising of strong religious ties between some state political leaders (in USA, in Russia, in Italia....) and religion, we cannot say that some part of the christiannity could not go back to the dark age of violence and crusades (not exactly in the same way but still)

If i go further (but it is a philosophical approcah may be not suited for this forum) may be the new religion in West, after being God, then Knowledge/Philosophy (Century of Lights), then Pure Science, is the "Money " (and its relatives Oil/Natural Ressources/)
And we were/are promoting wars for this new religion much like we were promoting war in the name of God during the Crusades

[Behan]

In 1982, in just 2 days, a Christian millitia, killed 700-3500 civilians in Lebanon during the Sabra and Shatila massacre.

in 1995, Christian soldiers and paramillitary (who were blessed by a priest before the actual act) executed around 8,000 civilians in Srebrenica in a matter of days. The famous line by the general before the actual act was "and now, we get revenge on the Turks". it was all recorded on video.

I'm not sure if I won't consider these massacres entirely religious in nature. These seemed to be more ethnic/tribal than anything else. I don;t believe this was a concerted effort on the behalf of Christianity to attack Muslims. That Side A was Christian and Side B was Muslim was largely coincidental.




Maybe you heard of it?



You know something, I did hear of it, right before I was deployed to that lovely corner of Europe for 2+ years.

If you have any swing with the powers that be in that part of the world and you could maybe ask them, from me, to stop instigating global conflicts I would really appreciate it. I mean, I would really owe you one.

[The Balkan]

I'm not sure if I won't consider these massacres entirely religious in nature. These seemed to be more ethnic/tribal than anything else. I don;t believe this was a concerted effort on the behalf of Christianity to attack Muslims. That Side A was Christian and Side B was Muslim was largely coincidental.



You know something, I did hear of it, right before I was deployed to that lovely corner of Europe for 2+ years.

If you have any swing with the powers that be in that part of the world and you could maybe ask them, from me, to stop instigating global conflicts I would really appreciate it. I mean, I would really owe you one.

Yes there was other things involved as always but the fact remains those men wouldn't have been killed if they were Orthodox Christians like the attackers. They were killed cuz they were Muslims. Simple as that. People say it was religious when it suits them, then say it wasn't when it suits them. First it's about "big bad Muslim attackers", then it's "not about religion".

And sure, I'll tell 'em. Don't know if the guys who sparked World War 1 off will listen to me though, they hate me p-)

[Behan]

Fair enough.

[hskywalker]

Religions at their Best :
Even Bouddhism

http://images.imagehotel.net/c2t0l7593v.jpg (http://www.imagehotel.net/?from=c2t0l7593v.jpg)



This is probablely hinduism.One famous hindu king stopped violence when he converted to buddhism.
A buddhist must be a vegetarian, so those world conqouring mongols can't really be called buddhist.

[The Balkan]

At least not good Budhists anyway lol.

[Bia]

/me prays...

"Jesus, save me from your followers"

[Behan]

I still wish to welcome the mongorians, provided that all baptized Catholics get free pony rides.

[LaoSexMachine]

This is probablely hinduism.One famous hindu king stopped violence when he converted to buddhism.
A buddhist must be a vegetarian, so those world conqouring mongols can't really be called buddhist.

You are talking about Asoka. You don't have to be a vegetarian to be Buddhist.

[Behan]

However, if I understand things correctly in that part of the world, you immediately must forfeit your vegitarian status if you actually eat a Buiddhist.



You are talking about Asoka. You don't have to be a vegetarian to be Buddhist.

[PeterRJG]

However, if I understand things correctly in that part of the world, you immediately must forfeit your vegitarian status if you actually eat a Buiddhist.

What sort of stupid comment is that?

[chalk_2]

I personally could care less. As long as we kill as many of those bastards that hijacked those airliners, and flew them into the WTC. I think it was in the name of allah.

[Curtis E. Bear]

I personally could care less. As long as we kill as many of those bastards that hijacked those airliners, and flew them into the WTC. I think it was in the name of allah.

I'm pretty sure every one of the people who hijacked the planes are dead mate.

[chalk_2]

Ah yes, but there's plenty more to go.

[Mordoror]

This is probablely hinduism.One famous hindu king stopped violence when he converted to buddhism.
A buddhist must be a vegetarian, so those world conqouring mongols can't really be called buddhist.

This not hinduism
The picture is a part of a Khmer temple during the pinnacle of the Khmer civilization which was regularly at war with Burma and Thai elements
And yes the Khmer/Burmese/Thai were and still are buddhist !!

[Curtis E. Bear]

Ah yes, but there's plenty more to go.

AQ or Muslims? Your first post seemed to infer the second.

[Behan]

I refer to it as humor, which is designed to make people who have a sense of humor laugh. In other words, it was not directed at you.


What sort of stupid comment is that?

[Mackie]

yeah...going around praying for the sick, feeding the hungry, sharing the message of God's love, giving hope to the masses...radical selfish bastards!!
TRUE Christianity is different than most of us have witnessed unfortunately.

Ask some Israelis: who brought antisemitism to the middle east.

[PeterRJG]

I refer to it as humor, which is designed to make people who have a sense of humor laugh. In other words, it was not directed at you.

No, nice try but it was simply a retarded comment. Don't worry, you aren't the first person to post one here and you won't be the last.

[Behan]

So I see...


No, nice try but it was simply a retarded comment. Don't worry, you aren't the first person to post one here and you won't be the last.

[SrB-23Q]

How could any rational adult possibly be insulted by such a thing?

People try to sell me crap all day long. Ads in papers, ads on TV, ads on the radio, billboards, sides of busses, etc., etc.

If I took the effort to get offended every time someone tried to sell me something or tell me how great something was, it would be very difficult to make it through a single day without becoming homicidal or suicidal.

How about a simple, "Thanks, but I'm not really interested," and you go your seperate ways.

As the character John Winger in the movie Stripes would say, "Lighten up, Francis."
its different when its about your belifs :roll:

i wouldnt give a $hit about stupid adds either, but ive been raised all my life to belive in something and then some assh*le just comes up and tries to tell me his bullsh*t :roll:

[RangerStew]

You call it arrogance, they(Christians) call it their calling. Most of them are scared to do it at first, but they believe God has told them to do it, so it's something they feel they need to do. That is their religion (if you want to call it that). To adhere to it, they must go and tell others. The last time I checked though, they don't do it at gunpoint, like some other world religions. I wonder what those might be?

[The Balkan]

its different when its about your belifs :roll:

i wouldnt give a $hit about stupid adds either, but ive been raised all my life to belive in something and then some assh*le just comes up and tries to tell me his bullsh*t :roll:

yea..it's just naturaly annoying...can't even completly explain why...it's just irritating....like the jehovas witnesses especialy that come to your house.

one time a woman came to my place, my moms opened the door and the first thing the old bitch says is "do you ever wonder what happens when you die?" lmao.

*door shut in face.*



You call it arrogance, they(Christians) call it their calling. Most of them are scared to do it at first, but they believe God has told them to do it, so it's something they feel they need to do. That is their religion (if you want to call it that). To adhere to it, they must go and tell others. The last time I checked though, they don't do it at gunpoint, like some other world religions. I wonder what those might be?

Who gives a crap what they call it? People whine all day abotu Muslim belifs and practises annoying them in their every day life, why should some Christian annoyances be any different? Especialy since those people who bother you usualy come from some smaller sect of christianity that's even more annoying then the norm. And plz, nobody's going around converting anyone at gunpoint. Terrorists kill people, they dont convert them. That was done in medeival times and pre 20th century, when all religions did it.

[Behan]

I think it is all pretty much the same. If a latter-day tells me I'm going to hell, I find it no more offensive than the Smam-Wow bastard on TV.


its different when its about your belifs :roll:

i wouldnt give a $hit about stupid adds either, but ive been raised all my life to belive in something and then some assh*le just comes up and tries to tell me his bullsh*t :roll:

[RangerStew]

yea..it's just naturaly annoying...can't even completly explain why...it's just irritating....like the jehovas witnesses especialy that come to your house.

one time a woman came to my place, my moms opened the door and the first thing the old bitch says is "do you ever wonder what happens when you die?" lmao.

*door shut in face.*




Who gives a crap what they call it? People whine all day abotu Muslim belifs and practises annoying them in their every day life, why should some Christian annoyances be any different? Especialy since those people who bother you usualy come from some smaller sect of christianity that's even more annoying then the norm. And plz, nobody's going around converting anyone at gunpoint. Terrorists kill people, they dont convert them. That was done in medeival times and pre 20th century, when all religions did it.

Nobody? So tell me, what is going on in the Sudan at this very point in time?

But you are right. They aren't converting them. They are coercing them. Christians do not coerce. And if you find what they have to say offensive, they usually turn around and walk away. You don't have to listen you know. They have a right to say what they believe, even if you do think they are insane.