Heckler & Koch MP7A1 thread [Archive]

alexishere2007

09-23-2008, 02:15 AM

So many say its a good PDW but could it be used in offensive situations? Well

thats what it seems like. The KSK German Special forces are using the MP7A1

extensively in Afghanistan. Well is it doing any good? Does anyone have pics

KSK commandos with MP7A1s?

And I remember someone saying that Hk was insistent that the MP7A1

could penetrate LEVEL 4 vests!?! I think I remember it was at a SWAT

demonstration. Is this true or a bunch of **** Hk was trying to pull off?

Ft/s = 2,329 ft/s

Speed needed to penetrate level 4: 2880 ft/s ± 30 ft/s 166gr

Yea that doesn't look like it.....

Well anyways could someone answer these questions?

-Church-

09-23-2008, 02:26 AM

Multicam, PKMs, ACU, Blood Diamond pants, nerf guns.

alexishere2007

09-23-2008, 02:34 AM

ummm ok hahaha

Bro Jangles

09-23-2008, 02:40 AM

as for the the ballistics check HKpro.com.

but it is a PDW. does anyone expect it to be totally effective offensive weapon?

p.s. church your a ****.

Hippo

09-23-2008, 03:30 AM

Honestly, very few people are qualified to have a valid discussion of the MP7 (read: People who have actually shot it and have experience with it). This will just turn into a circle jerk of HK fanbois who have never fired a firearm in their lives and draw upon their experience in Rainbow Six Tijuana or Call of Duty 4 to spout "facts."

REMOV

09-23-2008, 09:11 AM

So many say its a good PDW but could it be used in offensive situations?What is the "offensive situations" for you? The PDW was a name of the some NATO program, but now is just a name of the specific type of the submachine guns fed by new, small calibre pistol cartridges (4,6 mm x 30 and 5,7 mm x 28). That's all.
And I remember someone saying that Hk was insistent that the MP7A1 could penetrate LEVEL 4 vests!?!I strongly suggest you, not to lisen rumors.

Britboy

09-23-2008, 10:49 AM

I've not used a PDW or SMG, but why would the MP7 not be usable in offensive situations?

If it can kill when used for defence, then it can kill when used for offence. Stands to reason...

I'd imagine it'd do well against enemy with body armour, but what do I know. I think some police forces use the MP7 though, and the Dutch (RNLMC?) use the P90 PDW, so it'd be interesting of their experiences regarding its employment.

Dispatcher

09-23-2008, 11:19 AM

So many say its a good PDW but could it be used in offensive situations? Well

thats what it seems like. The KSK German Special forces are using the MP7A1

extensively in Afghanistan. Well is it doing any good? Does anyone have pics

KSK commandos with MP7A1s?

First; Your post lay-out sucks.
Second; Ive seen the Feldjäger use the MP7 in Afghanistan, please share with us your sources that the KSK also uses them.

Thanks.

Sand Man

09-23-2008, 11:35 AM

Are these guys KSK (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1670779&postcount=197)?

Jarhead

09-23-2008, 01:28 PM

Yes, they are, Sandman.

Jaeger07

09-23-2008, 01:37 PM

Norway just replaced its MP5s with MP7s for its armed forces. So MP7 is the new standard machine-pistol for norw. armed forces.

AFAIK selected units have recieved it.

We now have the MP7, HK416 and HK417 as standard infantry weapons.

Sweet. I need to re-enlist...

Im only waiting for them to replace the old Glock17s and MG3s too. :)

nickless

09-23-2008, 02:59 PM

First; Your post lay-out sucks.
Second; Ive seen the Feldjäger use the MP7 in Afghanistan, please share with us your sources that the KSK also uses them.

Thanks.

Sources like this (http://www.abload.de/img/heckcl6.jpg)?

koalorka

09-23-2008, 03:42 PM

There's only so much a high-velocity .22 round can do beyond 50 m.

SMGLee

09-23-2008, 09:19 PM

The KAC PDW in 6mm actually represents a better ballistic than the P90 and the MP7

-Church-

09-23-2008, 09:21 PM

The KAC PDW in 6mm actually represents a better ballistic than the P90 and the MP7

Do you have any images of the KAC PDW ? Good pics for this weapon are hard to find.

maw

09-24-2008, 12:09 AM

too much talky-talky, not enough image posty.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4400/1190822261803fg3.jpg

conefire

09-24-2008, 06:18 AM

The KAC PDW in 6mm actually represents a better ballistic than the P90 and the MP7

And it is a lot larger too.

Macs.

09-24-2008, 07:11 AM

^^Fallschirmjäger Spezialzug IIRC.

Here is a picture from a few days ago in Afghanistan, thanks to He219:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9153/rtr220enqj5.jpg

A German Bundeswehr army soldier of ISAF forces monitors an area during a CIMIC (Civil Military Cooperation) mission in the outskirts of Masar-i-Sharif, north of Kabul, September 18, 2008
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32014&page=41

Mordecai

09-24-2008, 10:34 AM

To add to the list there is a couple US .mil units who use the MP7 as well; and use it offensively for those wondering.

Crip

Macs.

09-24-2008, 10:51 AM

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,960474,00.jpg

http://p3.focus.de/img/gen/C/w/HBCw2o0t_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg

http://images.zeit.de/bilder/2007/37/deutschland/festnahme/festnahme-artikel.jpg

GSG-9.

big_les

09-24-2008, 11:16 AM

The terminal effects of the round are said to leave a lot to be desired. After all, it's even smaller than the 5.7mm P90 round;

http://tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000050.html

If compact, controllable automatic fire is of paramount concern for a given service (close protection, vehicle & aircraft crews), then fair enough. And if the round can be improved in terms of terminal effects, so much the better.

naivi

09-24-2008, 11:26 AM

some from the a-stan thread:

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4624/610xho4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/photobucket/610x-2.jpg

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9734/AMB_0015.jpg

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2272/feyzabad1000yj.jpg

http://www.maxpedition.de/gallery/bw-0013.jpg

http://www.maxpedition.de/gallery/bw-0015.jpg

http://www.directupload.net/images/user/7990/b8ZPaNy2.jpg

http://img4.myimg.de/010209623020065f96.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/news%20photos/Todays/Continued/4624f87e.jpg

Mackie

09-24-2008, 11:28 AM

The KAC PDW in 6mm actually represents a better ballistic than the P90 and the MP7

Total different weapon. I call a MG3 PDW which has better ballistic than the KAC.^^

The MP7 replaces MP2/5s in several armies and police forces.
It's also a secondary weapon for heavy infantry in combination with Pump guns, LMGs, DMRs

The difference is the possibility to shoot by one hand and it's comapct design.
Important for logistic support behind enemy lines in asymmetric warfare.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_UCP
http://www.visier.de/bilder/msvc_intern/2309_12.jpg

4,6 mm

vinny_121_ND

09-24-2008, 01:53 PM

It's very rare for me to see anybody using a mp7. But I do know that the south korean swat teams use them, but still very less prominent than the mp5. The agreement is that their swat teams are hardcore.

SMGLee

09-24-2008, 03:29 PM

Total different weapon. I call a MG3 PDW which has better ballistic than the KAC.^^

The 6x35 really stand apart from the 4.6 or 5.7.

The 6mm has a 65-grain is heavier than the 62-grain M855 5.56x45mm, recoil like 30% less, with the 6mm packing more energy out to 200 plus yards.

The 6mm out to 200yrds are much like the standard 5.56 ammo with greater energy and still packaged in a small PDW package... if US military is ever to go to a PDW package, there is no better candidate than the KAC PDW... that is if the US Gov't see aneed for PDW...but that is another story all together.

nickless

09-24-2008, 04:29 PM

Well - overall, the weapon is not notably lighter or smaller than existing 5.56mm carbines like the Mk 18 CQBR.
Yes, the 6mm round might be more suitable for short-barelled rifles, but the difference is hardly big enough to have it in the supply system side by side with the 5.56mm round.

SMGLee

09-24-2008, 06:04 PM

I am never a huge fan of PDW, not much you can not accopmlish with a MK18CQB, but if you must have to have a PDW...I like the KAC PDW.

REMOV

09-24-2008, 08:14 PM

if US military is ever to go to a PDW package, there is no better candidate than the KAC PDWYou know, the PDW package constist (according to the NATO Ad-Hoc PDW Working Group definition from 1993) of two weapons: a semiautomatic pistol (weight 0,7 kg or less) and a submachine gun (weight 3 kg or less). There is only one family of weapons which is a real PDW according to this definition - FN 5,7 mm PDWs (FN FsN and FN P90).

In my opinion the KAC PDW is a carbine fed by weak ammo. And adopting KAC PDW when you can use the short barreled versions of carbines fed by 5,56 mm ammunition is senseless due to economic and logistic reasons. In such case all advantages of the PDW project are disapear and you have only flaws - different weapon fed by different ammunition than your assault rifle and - this is important - pistol. The whole idea of the PDW was completly different I am afraid.

alexishere2007

09-24-2008, 11:22 PM

Wow those are some nice pics!!
What US forces use the MP7 surgicalcric?
Well I think that having a PDW that is based on the 5.56 nato is a better choice... more abundance of ammo.
The KAC PDW seems like a compact carbine with an oddball round in it no offense.

Well seeing that KSK and GSG-9 and other nations are starting to adopt it I'm guessing it is effective!

domokun

09-25-2008, 12:31 AM

I am never a huge fan of PDW, not much you can not accopmlish with a MK18CQB, but if you must have to have a PDW...I like the KAC PDW.

We need to not forget what is original purpose of these Personal Defense Weapons. Weren't they designed to provide some fire power to non-combat specialist troops and vehicle/air/heavy weapon crews that can't carry bulky gun with them due to certain limitations like vehicle space etc. A carbine/sub-carbine version of assault rifle would certainly have more "punch" and range but it still can be too bulky.

Okay as not a specialist on weapons, maybe with bit more theoretical knowledge than usual. I was medic in army, I would loved to have something bit smaller to carry around in exercises than 7.62rk95, even with folding stock it's sometimes pain in arse to drag around while doing something related to own assignment.

Witch of PDW's is best or something like it, honestly don't know. I have never heard of KAC PDW before so I don't know about it (will have to google it now...). Personally I like ergonomics of P90 (this is just based on friends kid brothers airsoft toy. lol), but based on what I have hear over in forums, some folks whit real experience loathe it and others love it. P90 doesn't seem fit well in all hands. Rounds used in PDW's, as it has been already mentioned it's just another item to complicate supply systems. MP7, based on once again in just theoretical knowledge, looks fine so ergonomics are apparently good. Comparation of ammo abilities (mostly energy levels on certain ranges) how much difference there is actually between different calibers? For end user, energies involved, bullet drop and other ballistic qualities doesn't matter much, all they need to know can they hit/suppress/kill enemy when needed is enough.

orionhawk

09-25-2008, 03:53 PM

We need to not forget what is original purpose of these Personal Defense Weapons. Weren't they designed to provide some fire power to non-combat specialist troops and vehicle/air/heavy weapon crews that can't carry bulky gun with them due to certain limitations like vehicle space etc. A carbine/sub-carbine version of assault rifle would certainly have more "punch" and range but it still can be too bulky.
yes. the concept arguably originated with the US M1 .30Carbine in WWII. The idea at the time was more range, accuracy, and rate of fire, than punch. it was a supplement to the .45ACP M1911, and the Thompson and M3 Grease Gun.

domokun

09-26-2008, 02:13 AM

yes. the concept arguably originated with the US M1 .30Carbine in WWII. The idea at the time was more range, accuracy, and rate of fire, than punch. it was a supplement to the .45ACP M1911, and the Thompson and M3 Grease Gun.

M1 and M2 carbines were designed on the very same purpose as modern PDW's and they were also predecessor of "true" assault rifles, if not real assault rifles, as they had all design features of one. They ended up being popular amongst regular inf trooper too.

They just are more rifles than new breed of PDW's, witch are some where in gray zone between sub compact rifle (this due to their ammo, not size) and traditional small SMG.

BTW wasn't M3 grease gun used by tank crew untill about mid 80's?

Bro Jangles

09-26-2008, 03:13 AM

BTW wasn't M3 grease gun used by tank crew untill about mid 80's?
from what i understand they had them up till the early 90s

deagle

09-27-2008, 03:18 PM

we should merge this thread w/ hk thread

Fritz Werner

10-18-2008, 02:04 PM

"- And I remember someone saying that Hk was insistent that the MP7A1 could penetrate LEVEL 4 vests!?! I strongly suggest you, not to lisen rumors." - I strongly suggest you, not to lisen rumors.

In fact, I have a copy of HK's official "Weapons System - Military & Law Enforcement" marketing catalogue in English and it says for the MP7:

"Full penetration of the CRISAT-protection (1.6mm Titanium combined with 20 layers of Kevlar) on the 200m distance, which is four times more than the NATO-requirements call for"

It goes on to say what's really needless to say: "High energy transfer into the target"

I don't have in online and thus don't know how to upload it here but I could mail the scan to you. Also, I will get HK's special brochure on MP7 one of the next days.

Indiana Jones

10-18-2008, 02:32 PM

In fact, I have a copy of HK's official "Weapons System - Military & Law Enforcement" marketing catalogue in English and it says for the MP7:

"Full penetration of the CRISAT-protection (1.6mm Titanium combined with 20 layers of Kevlar) on the 200m distance, which is four times more than the NATO-requirements call for"

It goes on to say what's really needless to say: "High energy transfer into the target"

I don't have in online and thus don't know how to upload it here but I could mail the scan to you. Also, I will get HK's special brochure on MP7 one of the next days.
Mr Werner,
The CRISAT standard roughly eguals the German Schutzklasse 3, and is as far as I know situated somewhere in between US level IIIa and III bodyarmour. At very short ranges 4,6x30 might just defeat US level III, but I hardly believe it will make much of an impression on level IV.
Cheers,
IJ.

Fritz Werner

10-18-2008, 02:38 PM

Mr Werner,
The CRISAT standard roughly eguals the German Schutzklasse 3, and is as far as I know situated somewhere in between US level IIIa and III bodyarmour. At very short ranges 4,6x30 might just defeat US level III, but I hardly believe it will make much of an impression on level IV.
Cheers,
IJ.

Yo Mr Jones,
thanks a lot for the info, I was not aware of that. Helpful, appreciate it.
Enjoy Germany,
FW

Morris

10-18-2008, 05:23 PM

I've shot with the Mp7. It's a lot of fun. We shot at 25 meters, semi and full auto, iron-sights and red-dot sight. Very easy to use and the hits were very close together.

alexishere2007

10-19-2008, 11:36 PM

But what I don't get is why not use a G36C which has the same costs, fps, range? of the MP7A1. The G36C doesn't use oddball rounds (5.56 NATO) so wouldn't it be a more cost effective solution?

Rynnäkkökivääri

10-20-2008, 12:45 AM

MP7 is much smaller.

Jarhead

10-20-2008, 03:37 AM

x2 The MP 7 will replace the MP 2 aka UZI.

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 03:00 AM

well while speaking about the MP7 has anyone seen any armies recently using the MP5 anymore? How about SAS? They brought the MP5 into the spotlight during the enbassy seige, any sightings? Navy Seals and the MP5? Marine Force Recon?

SMGLee

10-26-2008, 03:05 AM

SEAL teams or at least the West coast guys still have MP5SD and Mp5K in inventory, although not as much anymore, but still enough for those mission that require something quiet and for drivers that want something close and personal.

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 03:08 AM

such a great weapon is coming to disuse :( well i wonder if they are going to use another submachine gun like the MP7 or Mk18s.....

SMGLee

10-26-2008, 04:15 AM

They do use the MK18....that is what replaced the MP5s.......and the MK18 isn't really a SMG....

Andy-M

10-26-2008, 04:23 AM

any news on if the Magpul 5.56mm PDW will make it to production?

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/Toolbox-X/SHOT%20Show%202008/IMG_1339.jpg

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 02:41 PM

I heard its at prototype right now (shot show 2008) but I don't know if the US armed forces will get it.
http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/PDRtech_PR.pdf
Looks pretty good I would have to say the ft/s is that of a Mk.18 but ehhh I think that the army would b**** about it and say the Mk.18 is adequate.

Galileo

10-26-2008, 02:41 PM

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicodrefonte/storage/images/media/images/defense/entrainement_au_tir_d_un_membre_d_equipage_du_daos_avec_un_pistolet_mitrailleur_hk_mp7_credit_aude_le_calve/1152480-1-fre-FR/entrainement_au_tir_d_un_membre_d_equipage_du_daos_avec_un_pistolet_mitrailleur_hk_mp7_credit_aude_le_calve.jpg
French SF firing MP7

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 02:46 PM

That is a pretty awesome picture.. I wonder if any special forces use it in the US..

The Count

10-26-2008, 02:54 PM

devgru has some in stock, but i don´t know if they are just for tests...

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 03:17 PM

DEVGRU gets everything lol....first the Hk416 and now the MP7. Where did you get this info?

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 03:25 PM

i would also expect SAS/SBS to have a couple due to British MOD getting some.

Britboy

10-26-2008, 03:58 PM

i would also expect SAS/SBS to have a couple due to British MOD getting some.

May have been for MOD Police as opposed to actual military...

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 04:08 PM

oh ok thanks.

Britboy

10-26-2008, 04:23 PM

Alright, this thread got me thinking,

How do you categorise these sorts of 'halfway house' weapons?

The differences between traditional small arms - pistol and rifle - are obvious.

But what distinguishes a Sub Machine Gun from a Personal Defence Weapon?

How could you then tell a small SMG/PDW from a Machine Pistol, or a large one from a Carbine?

Is it all a bit of a grey area and the organisation issuing/making it calls it what they want? Is it a question of roles (SMG for offence, PDW for defence?) and, if so, surely one weapon can be flexible enough to act as either, depending on how you want to employ it?

Or is there a NATO STANAG agreement on what to call all these shorty gats, like theres an agreement on doctrinal terms, interoperability & commonalities in supply, etc?

At the moment it all looks like something of a confusing mush.
Is PDW just a fancy name for SMG with some exotic rounds?
I would've thought the MP7 could be termed an SMG, PDW and a machine pistol (use one handed?) for example...

Perplexedly yours :p
BB

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 06:46 PM

Well I think a PDW has exotic rounds and can penetrate body armor. I am sure that a PDW could be used for some offensive roles. MP7 or P90 COULD be branded as an SMG or a PDW or Machine pistol. I think they are just trying to get the MP7/P90 to sell more by calling it a PDW. Many tank crews get carbines but even those are bulky so basicly HK or Fn or whatever company is trying to aim to sell their weapons to tnak/ vehicle operators for defensive roles

Britboy

10-26-2008, 07:13 PM

Fair enough...

British Royal Armoured Corps uses a cut-down L85 (L22) IW I believe...
The L85 is pretty compact as it is, being bullpup, I'm not sure if the tanky version is down to MP7/PDW size, but I'm imagining its pretty damn stubby. Being bullpup it'll hopefully still have enough barrel length to retain some real effectiveness, which I've read (albeit online) is something that can mar shorty-M16-layout-type carbines...

Not sure what they use as a sighting system, I'm imagining SUSAT would be a bit wasted on a shorty weapon thats meant to be used for self protection just after bailing out of a burning tank. Especially as it will probably (hopefully) not get used in anger at all in its average lifetime - unless the above catastophic hit on the tank actually happens.

I'm aware other organisations have expressed an interest for their troops though. Maybe its not too much of a stretch to see infantry support weapons crews (laden down with other stuff like mortar barrels or Javelin rounds) and recce sections using this sort of weapon...

Pro's to this approach (shorter version of service rifle) would be commonality of ammunition, mags, spares, training, manuals & other logistics stuff etc.

Con's would be 'just how bulky is it vs other PDWs' (not known), and 'will it still be effective' (I'm thinking yes on this one due to bullpup).

Do we have any Bundeswehr Heere members here on MP.net?
I'd be very interested to hear how they've found the other approach (dedicated PDW/SMG/MP) to work with the MP7, instead of a shorty G36 (C? K?).
Any feedback from the lads on ops yet?
Causing a bit of a drama logistically or has that been relatively smooth?
Overall, yay or nay?

Cheers
BB

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 09:00 PM

Well there the G36C is smaller then the MP7

MP7
Length: 590 mm (23.2 in) stock extended / 380 mm (15.0 in) stock collapsed
Width42 mm (1.7 in)Height172 mm (6.8 in)

G36C

Length: 720 mm (28.3 in) stock extended / 500 mm (19.7 in) stock folded
Width: 64 mm (2.5 in)
Height: 278 mm (10.9 in)

you can see the MP7 is smaller but I think using the G36C would've been a more cost effective solution. But ya know I like the MP7 because it has a sliding stock... lol

alexishere2007

10-26-2008, 11:02 PM

Oh off topic question... does the G36C see any action from military or is it mostly for SWAT

seventy6er

10-27-2008, 04:31 AM

Off topic: BritBoy, I would change my location if I was yours.

Location: In my Schlaffsack. Schlaffing.

You wrote: In my flaccid sack. Flacciding. woot

Britboy

10-27-2008, 05:09 AM

No way. Thought that was sleeping...

My vocab must be way off!

seventy6er

10-27-2008, 06:38 AM

No way. Thought that was sleeping...

My vocab must be way off!

You were pretty close. Sleeping bag = Schlafsack. That extra "f" made it the flaccid sack ;-)

REMOV

10-27-2008, 06:42 AM

The differences between traditional small arms - pistol and rifle - are obvious. But what distinguishes a Sub Machine Gun from a Personal Defence Weapon?Nothing, it is just a name. The same situation when Americans called the Minimi machine gun - SAW (Squad Support Weapon) etc. The PDW is just the NATO name of some military program - new pistolet and submachine gun fed by a new pistol round which can defeat CRISAT model armor. That's all.
How could you then tell a small SMG/PDW from a Machine Pistol, or a large one from a Carbine?In general - "submachine" gun is a military weapon fed by pistol cartridge. "Machine pistol" - in American system - is a small submachine gun (Czech Skorpion vz.61 or Polish PM-63) or a pistol with selective/automatic fire option (for example Glock G18, Beretta 93R, APS). The "carbine" is a short version of the assault rifle/battle rifle fed by intermediate/rifle cartridge.
Is it all a bit of a grey areaNope, it is not.
Is it a question of roles (SMG for offence, PDW for defence?)It is just a name of the program. The Minimi is MG (machine gun) or SAW? Or just both - one is standard name of the weapon, the second one is just local army designation. The same in UK - the L86A1/A2 is automatic rifle, but called by the natives LSW - Light Suport Weapon. And the same with the PDW - is just a submachine gun or pistol - called PDW.
At the moment it all looks like something of a confusing mush.Nope, is not.
Is PDW just a fancy name for SMG with some exotic rounds?Nope.
I would've thought the MP7 could be termed an SMG, PDW and a machine pistol (use one handed?) for example...As well as semiautomatic pistol with the British semi-automatic MP7A1 version. From the tactical-technical point of view is is just a submachine gun, which you can also called machine pistol or PDW, if you want.

SMGLee

10-27-2008, 02:14 PM

Remov, you are a stud!

gonna be at Shot in Orlando? with the business the way it is nowadays, I might not have the extra funds to fly to Orlando this year..

JoaMei

10-27-2008, 03:36 PM

For me a real PDW is any Weapon that can be carried like a Pistol but offers more Firepower at longer ranges.

koalorka

10-28-2008, 02:20 AM

For me a real PDW is any Weapon that can be carried like a Pistol but offers more Firepower at longer ranges.

Then you would be absolutely incorrect.

alexishere2007

10-28-2008, 03:20 AM

I wouldn't feel that protected with a PDW... I want to believe that it would be effective but I really don't think a bullet of that caliber could take down a man. I mean sure it yaws but is there an instantaneous knock down.... hmmm. And a lack of a common round would have me worried.

JoaMei

10-28-2008, 06:42 AM

Then you would be absolutely incorrect.

Explain? Because the other PDWs are to me only tactical SMGs or very compact Carbines.

A real PDW is something you carry all the time as a sidearm and nothing you leave in the vehicle sometimes.

Hippo

10-28-2008, 02:30 PM

Explain? Because the other PDWs are to me only tactical SMGs or very compact Carbines.

what separates a tactical smg from say a normal smg?

Is it the black synthetic furniture and 1913 rails?

Isnt saying compact carbine redudant?

Britboy

10-28-2008, 08:44 PM

I was going to say, all that 'tactical' this and 'tactical' that is fcuking weird.

How could you have a strategic SMG? Or a procedural SMG? Are some SMGs more suited to the operational level of warfare than the tactical? Really?!

Tactical sounds like a ridiculous name added to gats, gloves, pouches and such to sell them to people who don't know better.

Honestly, tactical SMG... The very first SMG would be tactical if it worked, how is it possible for it to be untac!

Hippo

10-28-2008, 10:55 PM

alexishere2007

10-29-2008, 02:40 AM

I have no idea how to tell apart from a tactical SMG and an SMG.....

Britboy

10-29-2008, 07:32 AM

A weapon becomes tactical when that future weapons douche bag talks about using the brand new tactical weapon in tactical environments for tactical operations. He also has to talk about it in that low dramatic tactical whisper of his

people just attach tactical to all things just to make it sound cooler or make them sound like they know what they're talking about *cough* JoaMei *cough*

True.
There again, if I put a set of webbing up on Ebay and called it 'webbing', I might get £30 for it.

If I put it up and called it 'TACTICAL para/rm/sas issue webbing AS USED BY ANDY MCNAB!!!!1111!!!one' then I could get £100 (thats a lot of beer tokens folks) for it from some gullible fanboy!
:D

Fritz Werner

10-31-2008, 08:01 PM

Happy Halloween

http://www.hkpro.com/images/umphalloween_000.jpg
(not MP7 but still H&K)

Amethystfretchen

11-01-2008, 01:36 AM

'Happy Oktoberfest' with a pic of Colt M16 and a 'Lederhose'. Just why DO I find this stupid...?

alexishere2007

11-02-2008, 01:57 AM

i have been hearing lately that the MP7 bullet yaws in the body. Is this true? Would this do any serious damage?

alexishere2007

11-03-2008, 12:20 AM

...........................

Britboy

11-03-2008, 10:00 AM

Does yawing in the body cause serious damage?

Eh?

For what it's worth, I'd imagine any situ that involved bullets perforating my body (yawing or not) would cause serious damage and more than mild discomfort.

In fact you could say it'd be liable to spoil my whole day.

dobrodan

11-03-2008, 01:14 PM

Because a bullet travelling sideways through your body would make a larger hole than one travelling straight through, it should cause potentially more serious damage...

Yawing applies to all "spitzer"-type bullets, and not only to those flying out of an MP7

Mackie

12-28-2008, 11:21 AM

Found this pic on my HD. Show how MP7s can be used in squads. Binoculars and NV are only added for demsontration. Perhaps a military day for press.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk143/xMackiexl/mg415rj.jpg

nickless

12-28-2008, 12:12 PM

It's in the weapon pool for the IdZ squad, so why wouldn't it be used?

dobrodan

12-28-2008, 04:54 PM

Looks incredibly impractical in combination with MG4...

The MP7 needs to be holstered somewhere to not be an annoyance when doing fire and movement...

COBRA1

12-28-2008, 09:24 PM

i have been hearing lately that the MP7 bullet yaws in the body. Is this true? Would this do any serious damage?

Yawing in the body will cause a bigger wound channel and wounding potential damging the tissues, like the AK 74 bullet that functions the same described in the picture:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4576/ak74nl9.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ak74nl9.jpg)