Lithuanian M14L1

[Ominae]

Does anyone have information on who modified the M14s to M14L1 standard in the Lithuanian Army? Thanks if answered.

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4089/m14l1gx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5323/m14l12pu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[LaoSexMachine]

That stock looks like a bastardize Dragunov stock.

[Buckeye67]

Not sure I'm digging the exposed gas piston & op rod. Looks like a good way to get foreign crap into the gas system.

[BlackFlag]

looks like an SVD and M-14 got it on.

[Bro Jangles]

never seen that before "interesting".

why remove the front sight, but retain the bayonet stud?

[AlbertoLT]

According to lithuanian web-site on guns, it was modified locally in Lithuania by "Koncernas Pergale". Modifications included new stock, bipod and scope/night vision mount.

http://www.ginklai.net/view/44/m14l1.html

[Ominae]

Wonder if there's an English equivalent to "Koncernas Pergale" for any Lithuanian natives out there? Thanks.

[AlbertoLT]

Wonder if there's an English equivalent to "Koncernas Pergale" for any Lithuanian natives out there? Thanks.

Pergale means Victory. "Pergale" factory is just a civil metal processing company in Lithuania. M14L1 were produced in 2001. They had more problems than advantages and were critisied by Lithuanian armed forces who got them. It looks that M14L1 is replaced by more sofisitcated sniper weapons now.

[hank]

never seen that before "interesting".

why remove the front sight, but retain the bayonet stud?

So you can stab people with your bayonet. Duh.

hank

[Walker-69]

So you can stab people with your bayonet. Duh.

hank

The trooper can also stick a hot dog or sausage on the bayonet, and when he empties the clip in heat of battle, the sausage/hot dog will be nice and warm and will provide nourishment and refreshment for the said trooper.

[hank]

The trooper can also stick a hot dog or sausage on the bayonet, and when he empties the clip in heat of battle, the sausage/hot dog will be nice and warm and will provide nourishment and refreshment for the said trooper.

I guess if you shoot enough the barrel and gas system might cook the hot dog as well. Good point. Those Lithuanians are resourceful.

hank

[entheogen]

Haven't seen those around. looks kinda odd thu. them 36K's they got are pretty damn sweet thu.

BTW, Greets to all the "Gelezinis Vilkas" out there woot

[Walker-69]

I guess if you shoot enough the barrel and gas system might cook the hot dog as well. Good point. Those Lithuanians are resourceful.

hank

At the barracks, of course, any soldier, whether Lithuanian, Finnish or American, can just [--------- this part censored so that no-one tries this at home --------------] But here we Europeans have a distinct advantage over North Americans - we have 220-230 VAC as standard, which makes for twice as fast cooking when compared to 110-120 VAC of USA/Canada. Well, it is also much easier for us to accidentally kill ourselves while playing with electricity.

That reminds me, there is some weird trick that people over here do, when they go fishing in summer, some guys drive 230 volts through the ground and then earthworms come up. Every once in a while someone gets killed when they trip on the wires.

Oh, and that reminds me... this is a true story. In Eastern Finland, in the lake area, a couple of men made a bet that one could swallow a live perch. OK so he stuck the perch down his throat; but those of us who have seen a perch, know that it sticks its fins up when it's caught. So the perch went down the throat, head first. The guy couldn't swallow it after all, and since the perch stuck his fins up, it was impossible to retrieve the fish either. The poor fellow suffocated, and I am not 100% sure whether the perch survived the ordeal. Guess not.

European perch are bigger and more green that American perch, BTW.

[Aldo Penniconi]

looks like an SVD and M-14 got it on.

It is probably just to show affiliation with NATO.

[D.E. Watters]

why remove the front sight, but retain the bayonet stud?

The front sight assembly on a M14 is removable from the flash hider assembly. Just remove a screw and drift it off of the dovetail. The bayonet lug is integrally machined to the flash hider assembly.

[lightfire]

As it was mentioned, this version was developed in 2001. Someone had too much time and lacked ideas (and money) how to make a good sharpshooter rifle - M14). Thus this clumsy beast was born. It is not used anymore, much simpler mods of M14 are used as sharpshooting rifle.

but here are reposts of two photos.

http://www.kam.lt/EasyAdmin/sys/photos/originals/M-14_su_ziem.jpg

http://www.kam.lt/EasyAdmin/sys/photos/originals/M-14_snaip.jpg

[Ominae]

Any other articles that has info on it? I'd like to read them.

[lightfire]

there is an article in lithuanian, but I don't suppose you'l understand that:

http://www.kam.lt/EasyAdmin/sys/files/m-14.pdf

[Alpha_Mustang]

I like the way it looks, but yeah, definatley not practical. Cover that gas sytem back up. Stock isn;t bad though. Those hollowed out sections would make it nice and light...

[lightfire]

A more practical and simplified version for the sharpshooters:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6310/61421949rx5.jpg http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4052/snilj3.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7349/snipoh6.jpg

[Bro Jangles]

looks like the normal M21.

[Lazarou]

For comparison: the Estonian M14-TP.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1104/estoniam14ti5.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=estoniam14ti5.jpg)

http://www.mil.ee/?menu=tehnika1&sisu=tapsuspuss

[3rdMillhouse]

OMG, what have they done to the M14??? :(

[kalkun]

For comparison: the Estonian M14-TP.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1104/estoniam14ti5.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=estoniam14ti5.jpg)

http://www.mil.ee/?menu=tehnika1&sisu=tapsuspuss

This version was in minimal numbers and is now going to be replaced with 300 M-14TP2

[Papenheims]

This version was in minimal numbers and is now going to be replaced with 300 M-14TP2

Do you have any pictures of M-14TP2?

[kalkun]

Latest prototype in these pics.Scope is Schmidt & Bender 3-12 x 50 PMII (Sry for ruining pics, but I had to do it.)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3999/tp22kg4.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tp22kg4.jpg)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1268/copyoftp21yu8.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyoftp21yu8.jpg)
Oh and sorry for hijacking this thread.

[Ominae]

Whoa. Didn't know about that. Looks like I'm late...

Thanks, kalkun.

[Bomber]

A more practical and simplified version for the sharpshooters:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6310/61421949rx5.jpg http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4052/snilj3.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7349/snipoh6.jpg


This version has at least four critical points (mistakes made during modernization, not the rifle itself)
Then, any modernization will never convert regullar rifle to sniper rifle. Because of it's barrel.
Why I want to ask somebody from estonia - what version did your smart guys modernized? Was it target grade M14 or regullar M14?

[bababooey]

Can't they bead the barrel to the stock to tighten up on the accuracy? If its a sharpshooter rifle, then it wouldn't be expected to shoot like a sniper rifle. It looks interesting, but I prefer the original wood stock.

[Bomber]

Can't they bead the barrel to the stock to tighten up on the accuracy? If its a sharpshooter rifle, then it wouldn't be expected to shoot like a sniper rifle. It looks interesting, but I prefer the original wood stock.

Today sharpshooter or designated marksman shooting sniper rifle, never regullar. SR's for marksmans are for example SR-25, MSG-90A2 and other mostly semi auto systems.
I don't think they could change bore somehow...

[brainplay]

Can't they bead the barrel to the stock to tighten up on the accuracy? If its a sharpshooter rifle, then it wouldn't be expected to shoot like a sniper rifle. It looks interesting, but I prefer the original wood stock.

Regular glass bedding isn't an option. It will break from the rigors of use and the zero will wander. Two options are available. Neither one is that great. First is the standard bolting the receiver to the stock. Unfortunately this not exactly a great option since the receiver was never meant to be tapped and can lead to cracking from the stress. The second is a pressure bedding system which locks the receiver in place through a series of friction panels. Little information on how well these are holding up at the moment. The infamous SEI 1000yrd sub moa shoot was nice and all but NM m14's did the same. They however needed a bedding job after so many months and that was just from padded pack to the range.

The largest problem with the M14 is that it normally requires disassembly to clean the weapon thoroughly. Once the rifle is bedded you can't really do that without having to zero it all over again. Many people get around this by locking open the receiver and attaching cleaning swabs/brushes to a rod thats already been inserted through the bore and pulling it out. Very tedious to do especially with an optic to get around.

I've read a number of statements from guys who were issued the M14/M21 making great efforts to leave it behind. Wouldn't mind if people who had it issued to them would corroborate or refute that. 100rds on a manicured firing range compared to use in the hills of Afghanistan does not a precision rifle make.

[kalkun]

This version has at least four critical points (mistakes made during modernization, not the rifle itself)
Then, any modernization will never convert regullar rifle to sniper rifle. Because of it's barrel.
Why I want to ask somebody from estonia - what version did your smart guys modernized? Was it target grade M14 or regullar M14?

You quoted Lithuanian pics, maybe you confused them with Estonians?
These should be regular M14.

[bababooey]

To my friends in the Baltics, a question. I understand why the desire to have NATO compatible weapons, but, has the Finnish approach to weapons procurement ever been discussed. The Finn's use Russian equipment modified and upgraded. Just curious. Or, is it because of the desire to distance from Russia by rejecting Russian arms.

[aop]

Hmmm... Finns have been busy scrapping their Russian equipment last 10 years which is a very bad idea IMHO because there simply isn't enough Western stuff to replace the Russian stuff with. Yeah, T-72 can't beat Leopard 2A4 but what would our T-72s go up against if there was a war? That's right, other T-72s.

[Itamajus]

To my friends in the Baltics, a question. I understand why the desire to have NATO compatible weapons, but, has the Finnish approach to weapons procurement ever been discussed. The Finn's use Russian equipment modified and upgraded. Just curious. Or, is it because of the desire to distance from Russia by rejecting Russian arms.


NATO Standarts? Corruption? Free guns from other countries? I think those might be the reasons.