M3 Grease Gun and Tank Crews

[SpeedyHedgehog]

When I was a tank platoon leader and XO in Germany (1983-85) each of our tanks had 2 M3A1 Grease Guns. We religiously loaded them onto the tanks every time we had an alert, but they never left the boxes they originally came in. We also never got to fire them (MAJOR disappointment :-() This was right before the Army switched to the 9mm Berettas, and all tankers were issued .45s (M1911A1). Supposedly there was a shortage of .45 ammo at that time, which was the reason given for our not being able to fire the grease guns. This would make sense, if the Army had quit buying .45 ammo because of the switch to a 9mm pistol.

http://world.guns.ru/smg/m3_gg4.jpg

Anyway, according to Wikipedia, the Grease Gun was used by tank crews up until the mid '90's (nothing more specific). I would like to know if, in fact, it is no longer in use, was it replaced by anything? Do US Army tank crews have anything besides a Beretta for personal defense? Thanks.

[James]

I think they get a couple of M4s these days, but I couldn't say for sure.

Sort of off topic - I had a chance to fire an M3A1 on my last trip to A'Stan. I'm very curious about how it ended up here, but long story short I was standing in the desert with a loaded M3A1 in my hands... It was fun. Not a very high rate of fire, pretty easy to control.

[deagle]

i woulda thought they got mp5ks, but if tankers will get the KRISS, everyone would want to be a tanker for sure !!

[-[Crosshair]-]

.................

[LineDoggie]

Hmmm, not sure about just Tankers. The 258th FA which had Paladins before going Light (M102's) had M3A1's for the Drivers of the 109's. Still had them in 2004 when they mobbed up for OIF II. Their Btry arms rooms had Milk Crates filled with Mags still in that waxy brown wrapping.


I've used M3's on occasion, and found them to be good shooters, but loading the mags full is a Bee-yotch without the tool.

The slow rate of fire was great, I could tick off single rounds easily once I got used to the trigger.

[SpeedyHedgehog]

Sort of off topic - I had a chance to fire an M3A1 on my last trip to A'Stan. I'm very curious about how it ended up here, but long story short I was standing in the desert with a loaded M3A1 in my hands... It was fun. Not a very high rate of fire, pretty easy to control.


I've used M3's on occasion, and found them to be good shooters, but loading the mags full is a Bee-yotch without the tool.

The slow rate of fire was great, I could tick off single rounds easily once I got used to the trigger.

I'm jealous. It STILL pisses me off that we never got to fire ours

[LineDoggie]

I'm jealous. It STILL pisses me off that we never got to fire ours

Biggest thing was giving a Joe one of these and all of a sudden they think their James Cagney in Roaring Twenties, shooting from the hip (not hitting a barn from the inside). Had to show them to use the stock and sights, short bursts. At 50-75M it was schidt hot for plinking sillhouettes.

[Hollis]

Greasegun needs a vehicle to carry them and their magazine (Heavy). One of my MOSs the M3 was a T/O weapon.

[afallan]

Well the Philippine military just brought them out of retirement and "modernized" them. They added a 1913 rail with a red dot and a suppressor. According to them, they have stockpiles of never issued guns in the Philippine Navy and Marine Corps from World War II. Also the cost of refurbishing/modernizing five of them is equal to the cost of one new HK UMP. Also .45 ammunition isn't that of a problem since the Philippines still used the 1911 as their official sidearm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAOKhLi8xj4

Here's more information: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-63057.html

So the gun is still going strong

afallan

[gtatejr]

The M60 series had two M3A1's per tank, driver and loader. I was on M60A3's from '83 to '90 stationed in Germany, Ft Knox and Korea and we fired the grease guns annually for familiarization. We never had a shortage of .45 ammo. When I was at Ft Polk in '90 we transitioned to M1's and turned in the tanks M3A1's, but our mechanics still had M3A1's on the M88's until '94.

[Ironsight06]

Sort of off topic - I had a chance to fire an M3A1 on my last trip to A'Stan. I'm very curious about how it ended up here, but long story short I was standing in the desert with a loaded M3A1 in my hands... It was fun. Not a very high rate of fire, pretty easy to control.
ANA or police? IIRC they got a lot of them donated by Greece.

[Gunge]

iirc, theres a mag loading tool thingy on the wire stock?

anyone know for sure?

[LineDoggie]

iirc, theres a mag loading tool thingy on the wire stock?

anyone know for sure?

Yes, on the M3A1 stock the loader tool is built in, problem used to be either you had a M3 stock, or no one ever told you what the piece of metal was for.

[Alpha_Mustang]

I'd assume they'd have an M9 or an m4. i don;t really know.

The point I want to bring up is that I beleive the search for a replacement is ongoing. It has to do with all this noise people are maiking about PDWs, like the MP7, P90 and KAC PDW, among others. In my eyes, the MP7 is the only one that seems like it'd fit the role very well. The others seem to be more along the lines of a submachine gun based around a new AP round.

Regardless, I'd doubt that a military PDW would use .45 or 9mm, as the whole point of a PDW is that it should have armor-peice capabilities. (if the NATO solicitation is to be believed.)

I hope that the U.S. military can settle the issue soon though, for the sake of our tank crews.

[gaijinsamurai]

It was fun. Not a very high rate of fire, pretty easy to control.

Up until I actually had the chance to fire an M3 (about 12 or so years ago), I never really thought much of them. But, their low cyclic rate makes them easy to control, and accurate at close ranges. Given the choice, I'd prefer a grease gun over a Beretta.

[matsalleh18]

the only ones ive seen lately were used buy some robbers in the newspaper.
it was pretty bitchin M3 grease,it had rails and aimpoint sight. there were 2 one was gold plated.wish i got my hands on those.

[Hippo]

i woulda thought they got mp5ks, but if tankers will get the KRISS, everyone would want to be a tanker for sure !!

rollyeyes.gif

please go back to playing your vidya games and watching Future Weapons

[Britboy]

I think that our tankies have just got shorty L85s for this purpose, a cut-down carbine version.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm
Last picture on this page.

It shouldn't be so hard for your lot to have a shorter handier version of the service rifle for Armoured Corps. PDW sounds a good idea but introducing new ammunition, spares, training courses etc would be a bit of a headache. Better to go with something already in the system so to speak.

There must be a fair few Colt Commandos/CAR15s/XM177s and other shorty M16 types knocking about...

[TheOpposition]

forgot who it was but I beicve I had asked this same question before, personal defense weapons for crews are neat as hell to for some reason, though I belive the way it was put to me, is that tank crew do have them, but their main goal is to get into another tank.

[orionhawk]

I got to shoot a Grease Gun at the Knob Creek Machine Guns Shoot last year. Muchem fun. (Also shot Thompson SMG with stick and drum mags, GLOCK18, suppressed MAC-10, MAG-58, short-barelled M2.)

I'm really hoping somebody there has a TDI KRISS this year... I have been debating either a civvy KRISS, or a High-Ready Tactical .45 AR.

[Laconian]

I've shot the M3, we've got about 4-5 in the vault. One is suppressed and has no markings, local legend insists it is an OSS toy, but it is not proven. They are very fun to shoot, and in some ways better than the Thompson, IMO

Our mechanics carried them when I was a mech guy in the '80s. I would think they have been replaced by now.

The KRISS is a neat design, I shot a prototype last year or so, IMO it solves a problem that doesn't exist.

[Gunge]

Orionhawk

'High-Ready Tactical .45 AR.'

any more info on that ?
never heard of it

[Alpha_Mustang]

Deosn't steam too special. Sure, it looks highspeed, but in reality highly impractical for a PDW. The solid fixed stock lower and the 16" barrel are far too long. Also, the .45 round doesn't meet the ballistic properties of what is asked for in a modern PDW.

http://www.highreadytactical.com/catalog/product.asp?pid=1027067&ret_id=943830

The reedeeming quality, in regards to the M3, is that it uses the same magazine.

Can;t be too bad for a civie plinker weapon, though.

[Talon]

I have shot a High-Ready Tactical .45 AR. Thing was NII-IICE.

Balanced and fired extremely well. Good for rapid target acquisition.
Hardly any felt recoil at all...so accurate rapid fire is performed easily.

Loading the mag took a second to figure out but other then that the weapon was flawless.

[orionhawk]

somebody beat me to the response...

I picked up a brochure for it at last year's KCMGS. I've been looking for a .45acp carbine for a home-defense long-gun and plinker for a couple years. Olympic arms makes one, but it is available with an A2 upper only. I had a Beretta CX4 Storm for a while, but for some reason it beat the **** out of my shoulder. its mag capacity also sucked, among other issues.

now, right when I finally get the fundage to pick up a High-Ready, the KRISS comes out...:-(
I canna bloody decide... hopefully someone has a KRISS at the KCMGS next weekend...