At 81, Japanese vet makes rare return to Iwo Jima

[kongman]

At 81, Japanese vet makes rare return to Iwo Jima

The tunnels of Iwo Jima snake deep beneath the volcanic rock and soil, their entrances camouflaged by a dense tangle of vines and tall grasses.
In their stifling heat, Tsuruji Akikusa suffered months of hunger and thirst. The bodies of dead comrades lay around him. His closest buddy blew himself up with a grenade rather than surrender.
Finally, Akikusa was the only one left alive in his cave.
In May 1945, he says, U.S. troops found him wounded, unconscious and dehydrated. Out of 21,000 Japanese defenders of Iwo Jima, only about 1,000 had survived.
Akikusa, now 81, relived those horrors this month when he stepped foot for the first time since the war on Iwo's black volcanic beaches, flown to the island for a U.S. Army-produced documentary on his life.
"Our commander told us we were going to Hell Island, not Iwo Island," Akikusa recalled, looking out over the waves where the U.S. Marines stormed ashore on Feb. 19, 1945. "We figured this was a place we would never return home from."
Not many did. And today, as old age catches up with the last survivors, only about 20 Iwo Jima vets are still alive in Japan.
Presumed dead by his family, Akikusa came home to find his own funeral in progress. Then he plunged into the hard work and growing prosperity of postwar Japan — became an electrician, married, had a child.
But he never forgot Iwo Jima, and he never forgot his buddy, Yasuo Kumakura. And when Akikusa finally returned 63 years later, he found an island where the terror of the past remains frozen in time.
___
Iwo Jima holds an honored place in the history of World War II in the Pacific, alongside the other titanic clashes of men, machine and weaponry at Guadalcanal and Leyte, Midway and Okinawa.
The desolate eight-square-mile island was the first major battlefield on Japanese territory, a fight of unbridled ferocity between U.S. Marines determined to win at any cost, and dug-in Japanese forces just as determined to fight to the last man.
The bloodletting was unprecedented. Over the course of about five weeks, from Feb. 19 until March 26, some 27,000 men were killed on a spit of semi-de****d land roughly a third of the size of Manhattan.
The Japanese vow to kill 10 Americans for every one Imperial soldier took a lethal toll: Allied forces suffered almost 28,000 casualties, nearly 7,000 of them killed.
Today, the Japanese military keeps a base and airstrip on the islet and considers it a massive open tomb. Visits are tightly restricted. The only access is by U.S. or Japanese military flights.
The remains of the 1945 battle are everywhere.
A rusted American tank lies immobilized in the ditch where it fell decades ago, its hatches yawning open. A memorial atop Mount Suribachi, Iwo Jima's volcanic peak, marks the spot where the Americans raised the Stars and Stripes — an image immortalized by AP photographer Joe Rosenthal. The tunnels, heated like ovens by the island's volcanic stirrings, are littered with helmets, cracked sake bottles, gas masks.
For the Japanese, who considered death in battle a supreme duty, the death toll remains something of a puzzle.
Of the estimated 1,000 survivors, Japanese records show only a little over 200 were taken prisoner by U.S. forces — meaning the fate of the other 800 has not been clearly established. Some speculate that Japanese returned home in silence, shamed by their survival; others suspect the calculations are faulty.
And the island is still the site of a peaceful struggle — over the ownership of its history.
After director Clint Eastwood released his two epic films about the battle in 2006, former residents of the island successfully pushed to restore its prewar name, "Iwo To." It's a minor change, but to some Japanese, it reasserts their sovereignty over a spit of land where so many perished.
___
That Akikusa survived such a hell hole is remarkable enough. But his story — which he detailed in a 2006 book, "Seventeen Years Old at Iwo To" — is a string of extraordinary coincidences and near-misses with death.
His march to Iwo Jima — or "Sulphur Island" — started in November 1942, when he entered the Japanese Imperial Navy Signal School. His studies concluded, he went to war, landing as a signalman on the northern side of Iwo Jima on July 30, 1944. He was just 17.
The expectations on board the boat carrying him to the island were grim. The men knew the Japanese war machine was faltering, and the focus was shifting from domination of Asia to forestalling an Allied assault on the mainland. Lying midway between the Marianas and Tokyo, Iwo Jima was a leading candidate for a U.S. landing.
It didn't take long for Akikusa to find out what that meant on the ground: A U.S. plane strafed his boat on arrival. He dodged the bullets and ran for the hills, wandering alone for a day before finding his post.
The air raids grew more frequent, eventually raging round-the-clock as invasion day approached. Akikusa monitored it all from his post on the plateau on the northern half of the island.
When the Americans finally landed, Akikusa couldn't believe his eyes.
"All along this beach, there were thousands of Marines," he said, gazing out to sea. "Everywhere you looked, for 360 degrees, there were U.S. Navy ships."
From his perch, Akikusa could see a distant U.S. flag atop Mount Suribachi on the southern end of the island.
Here however, his account varies from the standard narrative. According to Akikusa, control of the mountain alternated for several days between the Americans and the Japanese — a battle he monitored by noting the swapping of flags: the U.S. flag one day, the Japanese the next.
At one point, Akikusa says he saw a Japanese flag that appeared to be made of a white shirt, with the rising sun painted with what he speculated was the soldiers' own blood.
"I thought, our guys are really struggling," he said.
Then, in early March, Akikusa was knocked down by a shell fired from offshore. Wounded in his hand and leg — he lost three fingertips — he straggled from tunnel to tunnel for months, sometimes with other soldiers, sometimes alone, living off bugs, rainwater and food pilfered from American supplies.
Later he found a tunnel where, in the hellish, volcano-fueled heat, he sheltered with Kumakura. But as U.S. soldiers approached, his buddy detonated a grenade, choosing death over capture.
After that, Akikusa's recollections fade.
"I didn't eat or drink," he said, "and then I don't remember anything."
___
When he woke up, he was out of the war, a POW in a U.S. military hospital in Guam. Over the next six months, he was shuttled among various camps in Hawaii and then Washington state, Pennsylvania and Virginia.
Meanwhile, his hometown mourned his death.
In the confusion of the war's end, the Japanese military bureaucracy assumed that everyone on Iwo Jima had died, and sent what remains they could find to the bereaved families.
So while Akikusa recuperated in the U.S., his hometown in central Japan prepared his funeral. His parents refused to participate: a fortuneteller had told them their son was alive.
Still, his family was aghast when in January 1946, Akikusa appeared at the front door — while his funeral was taking place with those of a host of fallen soldiers at the local elementary school.
"They were speechless," he remembers. "Then they sent me to my own funeral, and I had to take my name down from among the dead."
Today he owns a company that fixes equipment at schools and businesses, and has often dreamed of returning to Iwo Jima to pay his respects.
His book paved the way. His writings caught the attention of the U.S. military, which flew him to Iwo Jima on an Army jet for a day of filming. (The documentary is for in-house purposes and there are no plans to make it public.)
Akikusa approached his confrontation in the calm, studied manner of a tourist. He napped during the flight, then filmed through the window as the plane landed.
Once on the tarmac, he held forth on the changes in vegetation — more lush now than in 1945 — and the weather, less hot than what he remembered as a 17-year-old.
But it was clear he had an overriding goal: to find his final cave and bid a proper farewell to Kumakura. Ferried around the island on a Japanese military minibus, he toured several caves, without success.
Then the bus stopped at one last possibility: a tiny, overgrown hillock near a runway. Akikusa got out and peered through the foliage at the opening of the tunnel, asked his guide questions about the location.
Then he lost his breath.
"Oh, this is it! It's the north entrance," he gasped, choking back tears as he pointed into the leaf-shrouded darkness. "Kumakura's in there, Kumakura's in there!"
He looked up at a fellow visitor.
"I was the last one," he said.
He pressed his hands together and murmured a prayer for his lost friend — then he pushed his fit and nimble body through the foliage and crouched in the hole, disappearing for a few seconds in the darkness where he and Kumakura endured hell.
Later, as the plane flew him back to Tokyo, he mused about having greeted Kumakura's spirit.
"I'm happy we got to meet again," he said. "I told him: 'Now we have peace.'"

Newsvine - At 81, Japanese vet makes rare return to Iwo Jima (http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/21/1892885-at-81-japanese-vet-makes-rare-return-to-iwo-jima)



a very interesting read.............

[Bushranger]

Awesome read that, thanks. That video would be very interesting to watch.

[Gunge]

all i can say is that reading that had a powerful effect on me
im 42 but one of mydads older bros was a japanese prisoner
he only spoke once about it, after some drinks and that was to say it was terrible
as a young man i hated them because of all the stuff i read and heard
but i guess its turned to respect in a way cause it was a long time ago
and alot has changed
when you hear and read their stories it kind of gets you realizing thats the way war is
its hell
but im glad they are our friends now
i always refered to them as japs but i wont any longer

[Connaught Ranger]

Before anybody gets to carried away by the old boys story, did he say he was sorry for what Japan did in WW2? As a country, Japanese people from his generation talk about the suffering they endured, but, never relate how much suffering they caused others or show any signs of regret.

Until they do that, then I have no sympathy for what they endured.

One of my Grandfathers brothers was a "guest" of the soldiers of the rising sun on the Burma Railway, I remember whenever he mentioned what happened him and his comrades at their hands it was with deep hatred.

+ R.I.P.+ Len James, now gone, but, not forgotten.

Connaught Ranger.

[Curtis E. Bear]

Before anybody gets to carried away by the old boys story, did he say he was sorry for what Japan did in WW2? As a country, Japanese people from his generation talk about the suffering they endured, but, never relate how much suffering they caused others or show any signs of regret.

Until they do that, then I have no sympathy for what they endured.

One of my Grandfathers brothers was a "guest" of the soldiers of the rising sun on the Burma Railway, I remember whenever he mentioned what happened him and his comrades at their hands it was with deep hatred.

+ R.I.P.+ Len James, now gone, but, not forgotten.

Connaught Ranger.

You've read one article about him. One about what HE endured. Watch the doco, he may be disgusted at the actions of the Japanese Army, he may not. Don't bring the bull**** into this thread. Just read it for what it is.

[Connaught Ranger]

You've read one article about him. One about what HE endured. Watch the doco, he may be disgusted at the actions of the Japanese Army, he may not. Don't bring the bull**** into this thread. Just read it for what it is.

I also saw the history channel program about him crying over his dead comrades, no remorse, no apology, only how bad they had it when under attack from the Americans:roll:

So its bull**** when one recalls what family members suffered under the "Sons of Nippon":bash:

so I will state my opinion as I see fit.

Connaught Ranger

[johanness]

You've read one article about him. One about what HE endured. Watch the doco, he may be disgusted at the actions of the Japanese Army, he may not. Don't bring the bull**** into this thread. Just read it for what it is.

Dear Connaught Ranger (substitite)

You changed your style of writing from a Gentleman and man of honour pretty much to a style of a hotheaded Teeny.
So I guess you are in hollyday and your son or a nephew has your password.

I allways liked to read your posts as they were from a man who has seen the world.
Your posts in this and others threads are not the same they used to be.

Substitute, wait until Daddy comes home....

Noapte buna

[LineDoggie]

I also saw the history channel program about him crying over his dead comrades, no remorse, no apology, only how bad they had it when under attack from the Americans:roll:

So its bull**** when one recalls what family members suffered under the "Sons of Nippon":bash:

so I will state my opinion as I see fit.

Connaught Ranger

X2 The Jpanese reaped what they sowed

[KuroiRyu]

Before anybody gets to carried away by the old boys story, did he say he was sorry for what Japan did in WW2? As a country, Japanese people from his generation talk about the suffering they endured, but, never relate how much suffering they caused others or show any signs of regret.

Until they do that, then I have no sympathy for what they endured.


Connaught Ranger.

You are funny...

It's possible that everything about Japanese regarding the 2nd World War you need put your silly propaganda?

I can't beleive you are 50 years old, really.

[kongman]

Before anybody gets to carried away by the old boys story, did he say he was sorry for what Japan did in WW2? As a country, Japanese people from his generation talk about the suffering they endured, but, never relate how much suffering they caused others or show any signs of regret.

Until they do that, then I have no sympathy for what they endured.

One of my Grandfathers brothers was a "guest" of the soldiers of the rising sun on the Burma Railway, I remember whenever he mentioned what happened him and his comrades at their hands it was with deep hatred.

+ R.I.P.+ Len James, now gone, but, not forgotten.

Connaught Ranger.


its a good read nothing more ...........you an idiot ..if you dont have anything positive to say shut the hell up and dont post

[Calanen]

Before anybody gets to carried away by the old boys story, did he say he was sorry for what Japan did in WW2? As a country, Japanese people from his generation talk about the suffering they endured, but, never relate how much suffering they caused others or show any signs of regret.

Until they do that, then I have no sympathy for what they endured.

One of my Grandfathers brothers was a "guest" of the soldiers of the rising sun on the Burma Railway, I remember whenever he mentioned what happened him and his comrades at their hands it was with deep hatred.

+ R.I.P.+ Len James, now gone, but, not forgotten.

Connaught Ranger.

Well I'm not sure he needs to be personally sorry. He was just a signalman who did what he was told. I imagine he was not responsible for making the big decisions in the Empire of Japan's war machine. Any people who committed or assisted in atrocities is a different story.

Japan the sovereign nation needs to be a lot more sorry than they are, and accept their past and what happened. Young people there are not sorry, because they dont know. I have explained to Japanese people what happened, and then they are genuinely sorry and have said they had no idea and were not taught any of that.

My grandad fought in New Guinea, still alive at 98. He has said he long ago forgave the japanese people, but not its government.

[LineDoggie]

its a good read nothing more ...........you an idiot ..if you dont have anything positive to say shut the hell up and dont post

WTF? I guess being Civil goes out the window when defending Imperial Japans Actions?

[PUG]

You are funny...

It's possible that everything about Japanese regarding the 2nd World War you need put your silly propaganda?

I can't beleive you are 50 years old, really.

Start acting your age!... Oh wait.

[kongman]

WTF? I guess being Civil goes out the window when defending Imperial Japans Actions?



nope just sick of plp hijacking threads to push there own agenda ...they need to get a life or start there own thread and then they can argue till the cows come home , sure the japs did some really bad stuff and i agree with that , they still havn't said sorry , but this isnt the time to bring it up........just enjoy the read

[KuroiRyu]

Start acting your age!... Oh wait.

He is funny...for his age, for not say other words.

How can critic an entire people, the Japanese, one of the most civil and respectul people of the earth.

How can critic the standard Japanese soldier? A guy send to fight for his country like every others did. There were more than 6.000.000 Japanese men that fought in the Imperial Army during the World War 2, and the most that committed atrocities were officers or members of Special Unit like the Kempei-Tai, the military police. For not speak of the Korean, Manchurian volueenters that send **** everywhere in the occupied territories of northern China and Korea, and this thing until today is still covered in the archives. There were many foreign volounteers in the northern front (China, Manchuria, Korea...) that did more savage and brutals crimes than Japanese. This thing were normal also on the European eastern front were Ukrainian, Polish, Baltics, Cossakcs voluenteers did many savage crimes that the history covered under the German.

But like is said, are the winners to tell the history, and they will tell their story.

I'm not denying the atrocities of the German Army or the Imperial Japanese Army during the World War 2.

[Hollis]

One of my Grandfathers brothers was a "guest" of the soldiers of the rising sun on the Burma Railway, I remember whenever he mentioned what happened him and his comrades at their hands it was with deep hatred.

+ R.I.P.+ Len James, now gone, but, not forgotten.

Connaught Ranger.



How can critic an entire people, the Japanese, one of the most civil and respectul people of the earth.

.

His quote is why he can.

Also this post is not about Europe.


I knew many Men you fought against the Japanese in the Pacific. My dad was in the China Fleet, he witness first hand the Japanese invasion of China. I have met men who survived the Bataan death march. It is very understandable for their negative feelings for the Japanese soldier.

I would suggest that you chill on this issue. I lived in a few places that where occupied by the Japanese invasion. Ask the Chinese, Filipinos, Singapore, Guam natives, natives on the various islands in the South Pacific and other countries. If there is still ill feeling it is understandable. Japan was the aggressor. Hopefully in time all this will pass and those feelings will fade.

[LineDoggie]

He is funny...for his age, for not say other words.

How can critic an entire people, the Japanese, one of the most civil and respectul people of the earth.

How can critic the standard Japanese soldier? A guy send to fight for his country like every others did. There were more than 6.000.000 Japanese men that fought in the Imperial Army during the World War 2, and the most that committed atrocities were officers or members of Special Unit like the Kempei-Tai, the military police. For not speak of the Korean, Manchurian volueenters that send **** everywhere in the occupied territories of northern China and Korea, and this thing until today is still covered in the archives. There were many foreign volounteers in the northern front (China, Manchuria, Korea...) that did more savage and brutals crimes than Japanese. This thing were normal also on the European eastern front were Ukrainian, Polish, Baltics, Cossakcs voluenteers did many savage crimes that the history covered under the German.

But like is said, are the winners to tell the history, and they will tell their story.

I'm not denying the atrocities of the German Army or the Imperial Japanese Army during the World War 2.


Thats an Excuse that wont fly, you cant blame everything on Korean Conscripts and Kempei-Tai, or Unit 731.

[Hollis]

Thats an Excuse that wont fly, you cant blame everything on Korean Conscripts and Kempei-Tai, or Unit 731.


I was just thinking about that. During the liberation of the Philippines, Japanese soldiers murdered POWs, burn to death, and other methods.

[KuroiRyu]

Japan was the aggressor.

Indeed. But there are other threads to speak about this side, the atrocities, the crimes...
If Connaught Ranger want speak about this, there are other threads.

This thread is about the Battle of Iwo Jima, a touching part of the Pacific war.

In that story, there is a veteran, but first of all a man, that speak about his memories, and need full respect, a lot, like everyone lived on own skin that hell.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Look irrespective of who started the war, who won the war. This war was of such magnitude and brutality that no participant can truly be innocent of the crimes committed.

These stories need to be heard. And we as a race need to collectively share in the guilt of this period and to make sure this does not happen again.

[Curtis E. Bear]

I also saw the history channel program about him crying over his dead comrades, no remorse, no apology, only how bad they had it when under attack from the Americans:roll:

So its bull**** when one recalls what family members suffered under the "Sons of Nippon":bash:

so I will state my opinion as I see fit.

Connaught Ranger

So every single American vet who fought in WW2 should be personally sorry about America using an atomic bomb and every single German vet should be personally sorry for the actions of the Nazi government before they're allowed to tell their story? You see how idiotic that is.

Also, I had 2 family members die at Guinea. I got over it. Even though you're 30 years my senior, you need to grow the hell up.

[gaijinsamurai]

I've always respected you, Connaught Ranger, but I have to say I'm disappointed in your post.
The guy was a young, ordinary sailor. He probably never set foot outside Japan, other than on his journey by ship from the mainland to Iwo Jima, and he almost certainly never took part in any atrocities or war crimes, much less heard about them.

Personally, I respect ANY soldier, sailor, marine, or airman, as long as they served their country with honor and respected human rights, and I lament their suffering, whether they were a German POW after Stalingrad, a Soviet in German captivity, an NVA soldier awaiting a US bombardment, or a poor Iraqi conscript trying to survive our onslought in the Spring of 1991.

Just out of curiosity, do you hold elderly Romanians to the same standards in regards to the Holocaust, since they were Nazi Germany's allies? I hope not.

[Hollis]

Gaijinsamurai, that is well said.

[SBL]

gaijinsamurai, that is well said.
x2 .

[KuroiRyu]

Gaijinsamurai, that is well said.

Wasn't you defending the Ranger before? :-D

[BearInBunnySuit]

He is funny...for his age, for not say other words.

How can critic an entire people, the Japanese, one of the most civil and respectul people of the earth.

How can critic the standard Japanese soldier? A guy send to fight for his country like every others did. There were more than 6.000.000 Japanese men that fought in the Imperial Army during the World War 2, and the most that committed atrocities were officers or members of Special Unit like the Kempei-Tai, the military police. For not speak of the Korean, Manchurian volueenters that send **** everywhere in the occupied territories of northern China and Korea, and this thing until today is still covered in the archives. There were many foreign volounteers in the northern front (China, Manchuria, Korea...) that did more savage and brutals crimes than Japanese. This thing were normal also on the European eastern front were Ukrainian, Polish, Baltics, Cossakcs voluenteers did many savage crimes that the history covered under the German.

But like is said, are the winners to tell the history, and they will tell their story.

I'm not denying the atrocities of the German Army or the Imperial Japanese Army during the World War 2.

You got to be kidding me. I am speechless that you actually bring up Korean "conscripts" in this context and think you can get away with blaming them for the atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers...Is history so distorted in your country that you actually believe that and post it as if it was fact?

For every Korean conscript dragged to war, yes dragged to war, because most Koreans would not have signed up to fight for a country they detested and hated, there were thousands of nameless men and women kidnapped and forced into labor in Manchuria, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Sakhalin. Many of them were abandoned and left to die when Japan lost the war. Too many of them never returned home nor saw their family again. Countless number of them died when the Allies bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All of them were victims of Japan in whose name Japanese soldiers tortured, raped, and murdered as a matter of routine.

So do not think, even for one second, that you can whitewash Japan's atrocities by blaming them on Korean conscripts. There are still people alive today who can be called upon as witnesses and put your version of history to shame.

[Hollis]

Wasn't you defending the Ranger before? :-D


Still am, and ???

[kongman]

I've always respected you, Connaught Ranger, but I have to say I'm disappointed in your post.
The guy was a young, ordinary sailor. He probably never set foot outside Japan, other than on his journey by ship from the mainland to Iwo Jima, and he almost certainly never took part in any atrocities or war crimes, much less heard about them.

Personally, I respect ANY soldier, sailor, marine, or airman, as long as they served their country with honor and respected human rights, and I lament their suffering, whether they were a German POW after Stalingrad, a Soviet in German captivity, an NVA soldier awaiting a US bombardment, or a poor Iraqi conscript trying to survive our onslought in the Spring of 1991.

Just out of curiosity, do you hold elderly Romanians to the same standards in regards to the Holocaust, since they were Nazi Germany's allies? I hope not.



agree 100%...............if we only get the stories from one side we will forget some of the true horrors of war .and possibly make the same misstakes again

[gaijinsamurai]

x2. Well said, Bear in a Bunny Suit.

While I may frequently defend the individual Japanese who was conscripted into the army or navy and served honorably, it should be also said that Japanese society as a whole bears a terrible responsibilty for the terrible crimes their country inflicted upon their neighbors.

(sorry for the long-winded sentence, by the way.)

[Hollis]

Again well said, gaijin.

[KuroiRyu]

You got to be kidding me. I am speechless that you actually bring up Korean "conscripts" in this context and think you can get away with blaming them for the atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers...Is history so distorted in your country that you actually believe that and post it as if it was fact?

For every Korean conscript dragged to war, yes dragged to war, because most Koreans would not have signed up to fight for a country they detested and hated, there were thousands of nameless men and women kidnapped and forced into labor in Manchuria, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Sakhalin. Many of them were abandoned and left to die when Japan lost the war. Too many of them never returned home nor saw their family again. Countless number of them died when the Allies bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All of them were victims of Japan in whose name Japanese soldiers tortured, raped, and murdered as a matter of routine.

So do not think, even for one second, that you can whitewash Japan's atrocities by blaming them on Korean conscripts. There are still people alive today who can be called upon as witnesses and put your version of history to shame.

Funny...just funny. And sad. It's not in my hopes whitewash what the Imperial Japanese Army did, just all what you posted show how you are arrogant, because for everything said you need take that like a defense point that is not, you need drag all the Japanese people for something that was only a part of the military personell that did.

[gaijinsamurai]

Thanks, Hollis! Please say HI to Jake for me!

[gaijinsamurai]

Funny...just funny. And sad. It's not in my hopes whitewash what the Imperial Japanese Army did, just all what you posted show how you are arrogant, because for everything said you need take that like a defense point that is not, but only for have a more 3d view of what was.

How is Bear in a Bunny Suit being arrogant?
Even if the Government of Japan has apologized for their deeds, the people of Korea, China, The Phillipines, and elsewhere still have a right to their anger. When Japanese make excuses, minimalize, or fail to fully acknowledge what happened, it makes those apologies ring hollow.

[KuroiRyu]

I just really feel touched that is thread, that should be a eachother understand of what was the war for every sides, there someone that need put again bad words over the Japanese people, because for what I've read few times is mentioned the Japanese Army but many times is mentioned the Japanese PEOPLE.

Just sad...

So for a thread regarding an Italian veteran victim of the Ethiopian war, we begin to speak of the terrible crimes committed by the Italian Army in the Corn of Africa? Rapes, use of chemical and biological weapons, mass atrocities, same way of what did every army in the history of the warfare.

[gaijinsamurai]

I understand your point, Kuroiryiu, and that is why I initially felt compelled to take Connaught Ranger (who I consider to be a friend, by the way) to task for his comments.

But, Bear in a Bunny Suit never made any statements against the Japanese people as individuals, and I have to agree with her that allegations of Korean conscripts are better left unsaid, in light of the terrible history of repression the Koreans suffered under Japanese rule. It's kinda like saying that Ukrainians and Russians who served with the Germans were the ones responsible for all the naughty stuff that happened on the Eastern Front.

[KuroiRyu]

I understand your point, Kuroiryiu, and that is why I initially felt compelled to take Connaught Ranger (who I consider to be a friend, by the way) to task for his comments.

Thank you for this.





But, Bear in a Bunny Suit never made any statements against the Japanese people as individuals, and I have to agree with her that allegations of Korean conscripts are better left unsaid, in light of the terrible history of repression the Koreans suffered under Japanese rule. It's kinda like saying that Ukrainians and Russians who served with the Germans were the ones responsible for all the naughty stuff that happened on the Eastern Front.

But I said that? I said that the crimes weren't committed by Japanese but were committed by Korean, Manchurians?

I said that in the history, a lot of time many "stories" are taked in obscure, for sure Japanese troops were involved in the 90%of the crimes committed.

You don't need take what I said like a defense.

BTW my english is not so good and...such things are difficult to explain.

[domokun]

Words of wisdom, Gajin... multiple times.

Individual Japanese soldiers and sailors aren't all been part of atrocities, some of them are but most not. Japanese atrocities like German ones were partially motivated by seeing victims as sub-humans, to bit lesser level than Germans but still it was present in Japanese mentality then.

Japanese actions still were effected by Bushido and general Japanese traditions and customs. Honor and loyalty runs bit deeper there than western world. If regular rank and file soldier would have refused an order, consequences would have been much more severe and harsh than in western culture and societies. Japanese military code of justice was very strict and punishments hard, refusal risked execution. And in Japanese culture refuser's family would have been disgraced too. Bushido as far as I know was abolished from military during war in China, it could have limited atrocities some what.

Atrocities were committed by all participants of war, by some in lesser extent, by others in bigger. US marines and soldiers were too brutalized in combat on islands, as battles were brutal. Both participants in those battles expected and granted no quarter. Take prisoners and risk life? I have grenades and gun, maybe not. If allies would have been forced to invade Japans mainland, battles could have been as bloody and inhuman as eastern front was... or even worse. Seeing brutality makes most of people even more brutal, bit by bit. It's beyond nationality, it's in our blood and basic instincts, we are just animals after all even with morality,culture and civilization.

On another forum, We had long discussion over morality of carpet bombing... Finland and all other smaller nations too would have done that if they had resources. If Finland would have had, lets say 500 B-17's Moscow and St. Petersburg would have burned in first week of war. Opportunity makes thieves, at least so goes proverb. I think it has a point.

[KuroiRyu]

Thank You, domokun.

Your words deserve just respect.

[Connaught Ranger]

So every single American vet who fought in WW2 should be personally sorry about America using an atomic bomb and every single German vet should be personally sorry for the actions of the Nazi government before they're allowed to tell their story? You see how idiotic that is.

Also, I had 2 family members die at Guinea. I got over it. Even though you're 30 years my senior, you need to grow the hell up.


You post shows how idiotically childish you are, The Allied Forces, including civilians gave their lives, to stop two countries, (Germany & Japan) who were in the process of enslaving the world, do you really think we, their descendants need to apologize for that?:bash:
Thankfully they had the balls to do what needed to be done, or the world would be a very different place today, and until the members of one of those countries allow the true story of what they did to other countries people in the name of the Emperor to be published in the history books and apologize I will be of the same opinion.

No matter what some modern pro-Japanese Imperialist posters here think,

the "Empire" is not coming back.

Connaught Ranger

[Curtis E. Bear]

You post shows how idiotically childish you are, The Allied Forces, including civilians gave their lives, to stop two countries, (Germany & Japan) who were in the process of enslaving the world, do you really think we, their descendants need to apologize for that?:bash:
Thankfully they had the balls to do what needed to be done, or the world would be a very different place today, and until the members of one of those countries allow the true story of what they did to other countries people in the name of the Emperor to be published in the history books and apologize I will be of the same opinion.

No matter what some modern pro-Japanese Imperialist posters here think,

the "Empire" is not coming back.

Connaught Ranger

Re-read my post. I clearly said "veterans" not descendants. Also, you didn't answer my question. You're of the opinion that Japanese soldiers need to personally apologize for the crimes committed in order to tell their story. What I was asking you was, do American or German vets need to personally apologize for the crimes committed by their side in order to tell their story?

You obviously have a grudge against an enemy you never fought which existed 10 years before you were born, but failing to see that both sides committed atrocities is just common ignorance and stupidity. But hey, "we" were the good guys, so that makes everything a-ok :roll:

Granted one of your family members died at the hands of the Japanese, but the same happened to a lot of people. Get over it. As I said before, I had 2 family members die at Guinea. Do I hold every single Japanese soldier/sailor/airmen responsible for me not knowing my grandfather and his brother? Of course not, because I'm not some moronic bigot. I cannot stand people like you.

[Connaught Ranger]

Re-read my post. I clearly said "veterans" not descendants. Also, you didn't answer my question. You're of the opinion that Japanese soldiers need to personally apologize for the crimes committed in order to tell their story. What I was asking you was, do American or German vets need to personally apologize for the crimes committed by their side in order to tell their story?

You obviously have a grudge against an enemy you never fought which existed 10 years before you were born, but failing to see that both sides committed atrocities is just common ignorance and stupidity. But hey, "we" were the good guys, so that makes everything a-ok :roll:

Granted one of your family members died at the hands of the Japanese, but the same happened to a lot of people. Get over it. As I said before, I had 2 family members die at Guinea. Do I hold every single Japanese soldier/sailor/airmen responsible for me not knowing my grandfather and his brother? Of course not, because I'm not some moronic bigot. I cannot stand people like you.

Well toughski shi*ski, there are quite a few more out there than me.

And you read my post wrong, my family relative did not die at the hands of the Japanese, he was one of the lucky(?) walking skeletons who survived the Japanese "hospitality" on the "Burma Railway". And for the rest of his life suffered with complications and health issues because of this,

I remember a time when Japanese people were made to feel unwelcome
and even discouraged from coming to Australia, because of the way they treated Allied soldiers especially POW's.

I personally have no problem with the Japanese people, only the Japanese mentality of:

A, that it never happened,

B, we will pretend it never happened,

C, we will ignore it and hope it goes away.

I, also have little time for people, regardless of race, age and plain ignorance, who are of the opinion Oh! it happened 58 years ago, old history, as I, unlike them, respect the courage, sacrifice, and memory of those with relatives, families, some still living, who helped stop
the Germans and the Japanese from acquiring World Domination.

The European theater of events has been well documented, so much in fact that the modern "history revisionists" have not got a leg to stand on, whereas events in the East, especially in regards to the Japanese Imperial military, are blatantly ignored, not only by the people who committed the atrocities, but successive Japanese Governments, who even refuse to allow the history of the true events to appear in modern history school books in the Japanese curriculum.

I am also quite sure there are many Allied Veterans of the campaigns against the Japanese who find that particular point irksome if not downright insulting in this day and age.

So if my posts offends your sensibilities its in the knowledge you are in the minority.

Connaught Ranger.

[Connaught Ranger]

Indeed. But there are other threads to speak about this side, the atrocities, the crimes...
If Connaught Ranger want speak about this, there are other threads.

This thread is about the Battle of Iwo Jima, a touching part of the Pacific war.

In that story, there is a veteran, but first of all a man, that speak about his memories, and need full respect, a lot, like everyone lived on own skin that hell.

Respect is something that's earned, not just given for his old age, he is an icon of a regime who committed terrible acts on the people of many nations, (and note here, I said people, and not just military), and he along with many others of his generation, as well a successive Japanese Governments have shown little if any remorse, they continue to live in denial of the acts committed by the venerable forefathers.

I believe as with any thread that its open to others views being freely posted, especially when relevant to the thread being posted, I am not advocating any hatred to the Japanese people, it just seems to irritate you, that I would dare point out who and what this Japanese veteran was fighting for.

Connaught Ranger.

[Rakki]

When I was a kid I hated the Japanese with a passion because hey, the KMT taught us that they were evil bastards who bayoneted babies and raped women. And that the Communists in China were all evil bastards who stole our motherland etc etc.

But when I grew up and got access to the history books, when you put things in perspective, the Japanese were no better or worse than any other colonial empire of the time.

Certainly, Allied POWs were badly treated by Western standards. But it was really no worse than the treatment that the average Japanese solider got if they screwed up or were found to have been "disloyal". Starvation diet? Well, the average diet of the Japanese soldiers towards the end of the war was a cup of rice a day. If they were lucky. And they had the hell bombed out of them, and years of US control. To this day, parts of Japan remain practically "US territory" (e.g. Okinawa).

If there's one thing that the Japanese took away from the war is that it is BAD(TM). I think that's enough.

It's now 2008 and six decades after the end of World War 2. If the Japanese were still as militaristic as ever then yes, feel free to belabor the point about the ignorance of the average Japanese person when it comes to their "atrocities" during World War 2. But that's obviously not the case (there will always be the odd right wing element) and I find the story of the Japanese veteran returning to Iwo Jima to be quite poignant. Talking **** about Japan in such a context is like visiting Pearl Harbor then crapping on about how the US is responsible for 911.

[Curtis E. Bear]

Well toughski shi*ski, there are quite a few more out there than me.

And you read my post wrong, my family relative did not die at the hands of the Japanese, he was one of the lucky(?) walking skeletons who survived the Japanese "hospitality" on the "Burma Railway". And for the rest of his life suffered with complications and health issues because of this,

I remember a time when Japanese people were made to feel unwelcome
and even discouraged from coming to Australia, because of the way they treated Allied soldiers especially POW's.

I personally have no problem with the Japanese people, only the Japanese mentality of:

A, that it never happened,

B, we will pretend it never happened,

C, we will ignore it and hope it goes away.

I, also have little time for people, regardless of race, age and plain ignorance, who are of the opinion Oh! it happened 58 years ago, old history, as I, unlike them, respect the courage, sacrifice, and memory of those with relatives, families, some still living, who helped stop
the Germans and the Japanese from acquiring World Domination.

The European theater of events has been well documented, so much in fact that the modern "history revisionists" have not got a leg to stand on, whereas events in the East, especially in regards to the Japanese Imperial military, are blatantly ignored, not only by the people who committed the atrocities, but successive Japanese Governments, who even refuse to allow the history of the true events to appear in modern history school books in the Japanese curriculum.

I am also quite sure there are many Allied Veterans of the campaigns against the Japanese who find that particular point irksome if not downright insulting in this day and age.

So if my posts offends your sensibilities its in the knowledge you are in the minority.

Connaught Ranger.

I totally agree with you on the bolded point, however in your first post it seemed to me that you were of the opinion that the stories of Japanese soldiers should not be glorified or told unless they personally apologize for certain atrocities, and to me that is ridiculous.

[wilhelm]

It is a pity that this thread has been derailed by people's agendas. Please create another thread to vent your various issues.

I have just finished reading Flags of our Fathers and must say that it was a tremendous read.

Having not seen the movie, is it any good? Most things Clint Eastwood has involved himself in have been well worth watching. I assume Letters from Iwo Jima is available somewhere on the net with English subtitles?

Lastly, I think the book mentions that the last Japanese soldiers on Iwo Jima surrendered in 1949. Does anyone know of any write-ups concerning these soldiers?

[LazerLordz]

In every conflict, there are people who actively take part in brutality, and there are those who are there by chance and compulsion.

Whatever it is, leave this thread alone and treat it as a tale about a sailor who is out there recounting the memory of his final battle.

Having had family members who fought and suffered under the IJA, I have the right to say that it is still regrettable for us to paint every grunt who served in the IJA as a war criminal as a passing comment.

I do not condone what the IJA did in WW2, but do bear in mind that the average IJA grunt had little in way of latitude in personal decisionmaking in war. However, I will give this vet the benefit of my doubt that he has made his penance for the war, and leave it as that.

There's many other threads for condemnation and debate over Japanese imperialism and what not, but keep this thread spick and span.

[gaijinsamurai]

I personally have no problem with the Japanese people, only the Japanese mentality of:

A, that it never happened,

B, we will pretend it never happened,

C, we will ignore it and hope it goes away.



The European theater of events has been well documented, so much in fact that the modern "history revisionists" have not got a leg to stand on, whereas events in the East, especially in regards to the Japanese Imperial military, are blatantly ignored, not only by the people who committed the atrocities, but successive Japanese Governments, who even refuse to allow the history of the true events to appear in modern history school books in the Japanese curriculum.



Connaught Ranger.

Connaught Ranger, I'd encourage you to check your facts before using the often repeated myth that the Japanese have never apologized for their crimes, and don't teach their kids about the atrocities and imperialism inflicted on others in WWII. The fact of the matter is that school textbooks DO IN FACT cover the atrocities, and I know from first-hand experience, as a former teacher in Japan, that young people are very aware of what the WWII generation did.
The "textbook controversy" was fueled in part by one particular book, used by less than 1% of the schools in Japan, that was written for kids with learning disabilities, and who were taught the bare minimum in all subjects, not just history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Look irrespective of who started the war, who won the war. This war was of such magnitude and brutality that no participant can truly be innocent of the crimes committed.

These stories need to be heard. And we as a race need to collectively share in the guilt of this period and to make sure this does not happen again.

I'm re quoting my post from earlier. People need to get off their soapbox and stop playing the "I'm innocent they are guilt" game. Seriously.

Strategic Bombing of Germany and Japan
Hiroshima, Nagasaki
Unit 731
Rape of Nanking
Auschwitz
And more

Humanity itself needs to apologize. We took ourselves into the Abyss. If that was not enough we then create weapons that can not only destroy civilisations in a blink of an eye but destroy life as we know it. This is the reality we now face.

[gaijinsamurai]

LazerLordz and Wilhelm, you are totally correct in that this thread should not have been derailed into a spat about Japanese war crimes and repentance, but I felt the original post which turned this thread into such was inappropriate and should have been answered.

In any event, I'm glad the man survived the terrible battle. He has my respect.

[LazerLordz]

LazerLordz and Wilhelm, you are totally correct in that this thread should not have been derailed into a spat about Japanese war crimes and repentance, but I felt the original post which turned this thread into such was inappropriate and should have been answered.

In any event, I'm glad the man survived the terrible battle. He has my respect.

No problem. Cheers :)

[PrinzEugen]

I would just like to thank the original poster for directing us to the link and story. I always enjoy reading first hand accounts, especially from WW2, regardless of under what banner the man fought. That is all.

[Hollis]

While this thread is basically about a old soldier who managed to survive a fierce engagement and to then eventually is able to return to the battle ground, it is also more than that.

Part of the healing process is deal with this issues. The scars of this war run very deep in a number of people. The natural hate from the horrors and brutality of that war was also passed on to newer generation. I think there are several points to remember.

We can not deny what has happened.

We need to reconcile the anger and hate to insure it does not continue to live in even new generations.

Post like this, will bring a mixed response. It is natural that they do. There is a lot of pain still out there from that war. It is not on just one side.

While this issue comes up periodically, the people involved may not be the same people. To wipe aside their feelings in one stroke, I think, does a disservice. I don't think the responses are about hating the Japanese people as it is more expressing the anger and hate that grew out of that war. Today generally the Japanese are good friends of Americans, we can contributed that to those who preceded us in helping both countries to heal from the scars of that war. We still have some distance to go before the task is completed.


I think it is a error to simply dismiss someone feelings about this war. I want to be clear, it is a error to even dismiss the Japanese people's feelings too. Assigning blame does very little to remove the pains of war. There is more to reconciliation than just pointing a finger.



A side story, On my birthday, my dad would call me to wish me happy birthday and then tell me where he was when I was born. After the war when I was born, he had shore duty on Iwo Jima. I guess there where a few Japanese soldier who where still, holding out.

My dad still hated the Japanese, until his death. He was in the China fleet from 1937 and in the Pacific till VJ day.

[wilhelm]

LazerLordz and Wilhelm, you are totally correct in that this thread should not have been derailed into a spat about Japanese war crimes and repentance, but I felt the original post which turned this thread into such was inappropriate and should have been answered.

In any event, I'm glad the man survived the terrible battle. He has my respect.

No worries, it was not directed at you.:)

As an aside and related to the Iwo Jima question, perhaps a new thread realating to the last Japanese holdouts would be in order. Mind you, perhaps a search is in order first, as MP.net seems to have everything in the Universe covered already...

[jasonblaster]

I've been to Iwo 4 times, and each time was simply amazing. I've always been a military history buff, but being in the actual terrain where MOH's where earned by the dozen, was awe inspiring. It was rough terrain, hot as hell, and I could only imagine being targeted by the Japanese while trying to navigate through. It's also amazing the small size of the island, and the death and carnage that took place there.

The tunnels were also quite impressive, the one's still intact that is. Spent many an hour underground on Iwo, wandering, only to surface in the most unlikely and unexpected places. Cannot imagine clearing those tunnels.

[vinny_121_ND]

I also saw the history channel program about him crying over his dead comrades, no remorse, no apology, only how bad they had it when under attack from the Americans:roll:

So its bull**** when one recalls what family members suffered under the "Sons of Nippon":bash:

so I will state my opinion as I see fit.

Connaught Ranger

This is war. Soldiers are told what to do by their governments. Even today if you don't agree with the war in Iraq, you're still not allowed to challenge the President and not serve as a soldier. You signed the contract and you must fulfill your duties.

I don't like it how our soldiers today get harassed on the subway being called 'baby killers', or get spat on by anti war protestors. It makes me sick. You should blame the japanese government, not some 17 year old soldier still in high school.

Well, it was a interesting article.

[Hollis]

Vinny, I did not read CR post as a attack on the 81 year old. Personally I think the article was very interesting to read. Again this is not a simple issue. I think it still shows we have a little more to go for a more complete reconciliation between our countries over the war. I believe CR was addressing a national Japanese response that is sometimes used on how they treat the war.

There was a great program on the last hold outs of the Japanese army. Amazing how long a very few soldiers manage to hide.

[wilhelm]

There was a great program on the last hold outs of the Japanese army. Amazing how long a very few soldiers manage to hide.

Can you remember the name of that programme?

[wilhelm]

Interesting site on last hold outs from the Japanese Army.

http://www.wanpela.com/holdouts/list.html

Seems 2nd lieutenant Hiroo Onoda was the most famous, finally surrendering in 1974!! Below are pictures and a brief description.

http://www.wanpela.com/holdouts/profiles/onoda.html

His colleague, Private Kinshichi Kozuka was shot and killed in 1972 by police during one of their guerilla raids!!!!

It boggles the mind even thinking about it. There were rumours of the odd soldiers still holding out relatively recently, but these guys would now be around 80 years old.

Certainly a fascinating subject.

[Hollis]

Can you remember the name of that programme?


I wish I did. Sorry about that, It was really good. If memory is right Philippines and Guam had the last hold outs. I think that last known hold out surrendered in late '74?


Possible, there may have been more. The US island hopped, skipping some islands and cutting them off. There could have been few left on those island, not to mentioned survivors of a ship wreck or airplane crash.

[Dragonscript]

I wish I did. Sorry about that, It was really good. If memory is right Philippines and Guam had the last hold outs. I think that last known hold out surrendered in late '74?


Possible, there may have been more. The US island hopped, skipping some islands and cutting them off. There could have been few left on those island, not to mentioned survivors of a ship wreck or airplane crash.


The Last Surrender i think.

[BearInBunnySuit]

The Last Surrender i think.

Thanks, I'm gonna try to find it at Blockbuster if they have it.

[wasser]

Vinny, I did not read CR post as a attack on the 81 year old. Personally I think the article was very interesting to read. Again this is not a simple issue. I think it still shows we have a little more to go for a more complete reconciliation between our countries over the war. I believe CR was addressing a national Japanese response that is sometimes used on how they treat the war.

I read his posts as addressing both national response and individuals - he addressed Tsuruji Akikusa directly in his first sentence:


Before anybody gets to carried away by the old boys story, did he say he was sorry for what Japan did in WW2? As he said, it's his opinion and his right to hold it.

The question though, to me, is a bit inappropriate. This article was written about a specific event. The people who created it shape what is said, not Akikusa. It's not an article about apologizing, it's about one man's experience at Iwo Jima.

And I wasn't "carried away" by it. Instead, I find it a fascinating story about how this one man survived under incredible odds and then returns to the site, thanks for the post.

[timetraveller]

I would like to visit Iwo Jima one day