PDA

View Full Version : Israeli plans to build new APC based on the Merkava Mark 1



S'13
06-10-2004, 06:34 AM
IDF studying how to upgrade its APCs

By Amnon Barzilai

The two incidents last month in which 11 IDF soldiers were killed in APCs in Gaza have again raised the issue of how the army should deal with the threat of missiles and bombs against its military vehicles.

The team dealing with the Merkava tank plan in the Defense Ministry is currently building a prototype of a heavy APC ("Nemera") based on a Merkava Mark 1 tank, which is no longer serviceable and whose turret has been removed.

The Nemera's most significant advantage is the high level of protection it provides and its weapons systems; the disadvantage is its high price. The army team believes it will cost some $750,000 to build one APC of this type.

Israel is considered a world leader in armored protection, and some of the Israeli security industries have developed a revolutionary approach to armored combat vehicles. They believe that adding armor-plating to an APC is an old-fashioned approach that has outlived its usefulness, as new missiles are capable of piercing armor or finding weak spots in the seams of the protective armor. The new approach is protection based on radar and electronics that can deflect an approaching missile.

Following long-range assessments, the ground corps forces have concluded that light infantry should be given precedence over heavy infantry. Next month three American Striker APCs will arrive here for a long series of examinations and experiments. When the results are collated, the army will decide what kind of protection is needed for the infantry.

The decision in principle to acquire the Striker was preceded by visits to Fort Knox, Kentucky, by Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon and the commander of the ground forces, Yiftah Ron-Tal. IDF officers are pleased with the APC's ability to perform and its relatively light weight, and are not particularly worried about criticism in the U.S. about the Striker's faulty protective system.

The Striker, which rides on wheels, is an expression of the move toward a different type of warfare which is expected to take place to a large extent in urban areas. This assessment is based to a certain extent on guess work, but military intelligence does not believe that large-scale battles of the type fought in the Yom Kippur War are likely in the foreseeable future.

Until the IDF gets its Strikers, the ground forces have decided to rely on the Achzarit heavy infantry assault vehicle built on the basis of the Russian T-55s, and to try to upgrade the M-113s.

Last week, after a year-and-a-half's delay, the deal known as Project Bazelet was signed with Israel Military Industries for improving the protection of 50 M-113 APCs. It includes adding protective covering of three tons, a new engine, new tracks, and a driver's seat with power steering. The cost will be $20 million. Although the APC is 35 years old, the IDF is considering gradually upgrading hundreds of the old APCs because of their availability and relatively low cost.

No tank or APC stands a chance against a roadside bomb or mine in war time, and the enemy can always increase the quantity of explosives. But here too there is good news. A group of scientists at Rafael is developing an electronic system that can discover explosives deep beneath the ground. The solution therefore does not lie in passive protection, but development of the new system is still a long way off.

The budget of the ground forces for 2004 stands at NIS 1.3 billion, 23 percent less than last year. Ron-Tal believes that money can be saved by combining the Ground Forces and the Technological and Logistics Division of the army, as many similar functions are performed by both. The chief of staff thinks otherwise.

Ron-Tal claims that the slashed budget has put the ground forces' flagship project - "a digital ground force " - at risk. The project involves the development of a command and control system which apparently has no equal in any army in the world today. It would put the senior officers of the entire IDF, as far up as the chief of staff - on the ground, in the air, and at sea - on one communications system. The project, which would take eight years to complete, is expected to cost some NIS 5 billion.

In order to save the project, Ron-Tal has proposed to the German chief of staff to fund half of it in return for Israeli technological know-how. The Germans have not yet given their response. If they turn down the offer, the IDF is expected to seek another partner.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=437311&sw=merkava

http://www.walther.ru/Pictures/tank/merkava1.jpg
Merkava MK 1

http://wmh.walla.co.il/archive/109096-5.jpg
"Nemera" APC prototype

oldsoak
06-10-2004, 06:46 AM
Good idea. The Jordanians did something with a Centurion chassis to produce an APc as well which looks pretty impressive. I wonder why we didnt do the same with Challenger I chassis, but we''re probably too clever for that :roll:

Javehn
06-10-2004, 07:11 AM
Good idea. The Jordanians did something with a Centurion chassis to produce an APc as well which looks pretty impressive. I wonder why we didnt do the same with Challenger I chassis, but we''re probably too clever for that :roll:

Temsah . The idea for it infact was taken from Ahzharit , and it's a relative of our Puma APC .

W(M)D
06-10-2004, 07:26 AM
Is the 'nagmoshot' still in IDF use?
I served on those beasts when not in an M113, preferred sitting in the Nagmoshot as I felt very secure. The M113 was good for deployable firepower (better then the Nagmoshot) with the mortar hatch down and plenty of barrels covering 360 degree arc.

oldsoak
06-10-2004, 07:46 AM
Out of interest why the Merk I ? I would have thought that upgrading that to almost Merk 4 standard and adapting the M60 to an APC would be the way to go. My argument is this - Merk I as good as, if not better than M60. ( Its the more modern tank as well ) Upgrade of the FCS, main weaponry, armour, tank to tank internet system - and it will still give anything out there a hard time. It gives you better tanks and quickly. The M60 - I dont think Israel has any plans to upgrade that much more, so why not use that a sthe base of an APC like Temsah ? Appreciate that all you have to do is take the turret and ammunition stowage out of a Merk to give it more space internally for troops.

gilgoul
06-10-2004, 08:09 AM
Out of interest why the Merk I ? I would have thought that upgrading that to almost Merk 4 standard and adapting the M60 to an APC would be the way to go. My argument is this - Merk I as good as, if not better than M60. ( Its the more modern tank as well ) Upgrade of the FCS, main weaponry, armour, tank to tank internet system - and it will still give anything out there a hard time. It gives you better tanks and quickly. The M60 - I dont think Israel has any plans to upgrade that much more, so why not use that a sthe base of an APC like Temsah ? Appreciate that all you have to do is take the turret and ammunition stowage out of a Merk to give it more space internally for troops.

of of Few thing, from the MK to the Mk, the hull frew cm larger, the L7 of 105mm is not in use anymore and going to 120mm entices a replacement of the turret.
more than that, there is obiously a urgent need for a better APC, and the Achzarit is based on one of the least protected chassis in modern tank history, the t55. SO if the achzarit is still much better than the m113, by far, it still doesnt provide the panacea in term of protection.

Marsh
06-10-2004, 08:47 AM
Hi,

The IDF trialed a Merkava based carrier as early as the mid 1980s. Four machines I believe, were converted into heavy APCs. They were given the name Namer (Tiger) a designation now used by the Merkava based ARV. Because of financial restraints and the need to introduce as many Merkava MBTs into service, as soon as possible, the decision was taken to drop the Namer and proceed with the Achzarit - a supposed cheaper option. In fact, the work done converting the T-55 hulls proved more expensive than the original Merkava carrier.

cheers
Marsh

MARINO
06-10-2004, 09:22 AM
Nice APC it looks very well

Moledet
06-10-2004, 09:48 AM
Finaly soldiers will have proper protection in APCs.
BTW, It looks like Israel has many military projects right now.

/McH\
06-10-2004, 10:12 AM
After what happened in Gaza I wondered why The IDF dont build APC like the Puma but with Exit from the Back and Engine in the Front.. and asked my self "If the Merkava is built like that, why not an APC?"

I think its great idea to Convert the Merkava into An APC, But the only problem is the cost...

big80a2
06-10-2004, 11:21 AM
this is great news... really like the desing.
hope these protetypes will kick the dust woot

anyway Namera and achzarit are in the female form is that standard for IDF thermalogy?

anyway my cat's name is namer and this vehicle won't do his name any shame :lol: ;)

oldsoak
06-10-2004, 11:46 AM
quote
In order to save the project, Ron-Tal has proposed to the German chief of staff to fund half of it in return for Israeli technological know-how. The Germans have not yet given their response. If they turn down the offer, the IDF is expected to seek another partner.


If the Germans turn you down - please dont hesitate to have a chat with the UK - I'm quite sure something can be arranged under the counter......

Operation Ivy
06-10-2004, 03:28 PM
sounds/looks good to me

FDF_Hemppis
06-10-2004, 05:09 PM
sounds/looks good to me

Anything with tracks, armor and a big gun looks good to you ;)

Operation Ivy
06-10-2004, 07:13 PM
sounds/looks good to me

Anything with tracks, armor and a big gun looks good to you ;) :D

Almost everything
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2a6-3.jpg
BOOOO :D :hug:

FDF_Hemppis
06-10-2004, 08:07 PM
sounds/looks good to me

Anything with tracks, armor and a big gun looks good to you ;) :D

Almost everything
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2a6-3.jpg
BOOOO :D :hug:

Oh, yeah, I should have remembered that soft spot in your armor! rofl

Now what about the bloody brits' with their challenger 2?

P.S.
Leo is one sexy cat! p-)

J-10
06-10-2004, 09:10 PM
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/merkava/merkava1_2.jpg

The Merkava Mark 1 tank have a rear door, so it suit to build new APC. Good idea. :lol:

Kilgor
06-10-2004, 09:24 PM
They need one of these :P

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/maus_77.jpg

Weight: 188000kg
Crew: 6 men
Engine: Daimler-Benz MB 509 / 12-cylinder / 1080hp (V1)
Daimler-Benz MB 517 Diesel / 12-cylinder / 1200hp (V2)
Fuel Capacity: 2650-2700 liters + 1500 liters in reserve tank
Speed: 13-20km/h
Range: Road: 160-190km
Cross-Country: 62km
Lenght: 10.09m
Width: 3.67m
Height: 3.63m
Armament: 128mm KwK 44 L/55 & 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5
1 x 7.92mm MG34
Ammo: 128mm - 55-68 rounds
75mm - 200 rounds
Armor (mm/angle): Turret Roof: 60/90
Gun Mantlet: 250/round
Front Turret: 220-240/round
Superstructure Roof: 50-100/9
Front Glacis Plate: 200/55
Hull Front: 200/35
Belly Plate Fore: 100/90
Side Turret: 200/30
Hull Side Upper: 180/0
Hull Side Lower: 100+80/0
Rear Turret: 200/15
Hull Rear Upper: 150/37
Hull Rear Lower: 150/30
Belly Plate Aft: 50/90

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm#maus

Operation Ivy
06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
sounds/looks good to me

Anything with tracks, armor and a big gun looks good to you ;) :D

Almost everything
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2a6-3.jpg
BOOOO :D :hug:

Oh, yeah, I should have remembered that soft spot in your armor! rofl

Now what about the bloody brits' with their challenger 2?

P.S.
Leo is one sexy cat! p-)

LoL i dont really hate any tank i just like playin around, but yea the Chally2 is pretty sweet, heavy like the Abrams, but we all know the heaviest tanks are the best :P p-)