Cartoons - Axis of evil strikes back

[fdt]

From Syria or Asadland

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031015.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031019.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031116.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031118.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031126.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040304.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040315.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040325.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040419.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040426.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040429.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031025.jpg

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20030910.jpg

[big80a2]

the lastone is the most antisemetic of them all..... :roll:

[Saranof]

I like the 4th one from the top. Pretty much the reality, if you ask me

[MARINO]

They are really bad.

[MARINO]

They are really bad.

[MARINO]

They are really bad.

[Saranof]

You can't say that the 4th one isn't true though

[perdurabo]

they all have some truth in them. i liked 2nd one moust.

[G1]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031118.jpg

True.

The rest are just BS, depicting Bush like a yellow, long-fingered monster is just so cheap and very reminiscent of 3rd Reich propaganda.

[fdt]

the lastone is the most antisemetic of them all..... :roll:It is anti-american and anti-israeli... You talk like never seeing anti-semitic ones...

[big80a2]

the lastone is the most antisemetic of them all..... :roll:It is anti-american and anti-israeli... You talk like never seeing anti-semitic ones...

well your right its both

but I know antisemetism first hand

[ZeroPositive]

cool comics sucks to see them so badly drawn :)
one of them with the weird looking dog, the artist seriously needs to make some bloody sense in that sentence....

nice one

[UkrainianAmerican]

Discriminism rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Ichhabe]

Hope those cartoons wan't made to be funny... Maybe they have another kind of humour down there.

[DE_Six]

Is it just me, or do the cartoons from the Middle East news outlets (those above, Al-Jazeera, etc) are much more simplistic and way less introspective than Western ones?

Oh wait, I know the answer to that one: freedom of the press. Nevermind. :P

You know, our cartoons bash our own politicians and their blunders, US cartoonists depicted the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, but Al-Jazeera didn't cover the Fallujah atrocities, so on and so on.

Their cartoons are just propaganda that demonize their perceived enemies. It's not even remotely funny.

Just a thought.

[Maj12]

Teh funny = teh missing. Dumb if you ask me.

[Bulkowski]

Someone how doesn't speak proper English wrote these... promis? rofl

[Vance]

TOO MUCH DISCRIMINISM!!!111

[Andyman]

why is any attack against israel always considered antisemetic. I mean this is the definition:

One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews.

therefore just because someone is showing some political viewpoint about how they feel the israelis are acting, it does not necessarily define that individual as an anti-semite.

I found one comic quite profound actually and it wasnt shown there on this link. It invovled a pic of Sharon holding a sign that said "the only middle east democracy" and then in the background there were signs saying "Jews only" and "Road for Jews only". I thought to myself wasn't this behaviour quite familiar to what the nazis did to the jews in WW2?
One would think that they learned from that experience but it appears not. Hard to refrain from racism when those you hate seem to dwindle amongst a single group.

Believe me no flame wars intended and i am in no way an islamic fundamentalist

[S'13]

why is any attack against israel always considered antisemetic. I mean this is the definition:

One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews.

therefore just because someone is showing some political viewpoint about how they feel the israelis are acting, it does not necessarily define that individual as an anti-semite.


http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20030910.jpg

This cartoon doesn't look anti-semitic to you?

If not then, and I am sorry to tell you this, you should have your head examined.

Even in Nazi propaganda we see how the Jew is always affiliated with embezzlement and other criminal acts. But Hey! Maybe the Nazis were just trying to show a "political viewpoint" as you put it... :roll:

In this Arab cartoon we see how the U.S uses a Star of David in order to steal from the Arabs. Just to let you know, the Star of David is one of the symbols of Judaism. But you don't see anything wrong here.


I found one comic quite profound actually and it wasnt shown there on this link. It invovled a pic of Sharon holding a sign that said "the only middle east democracy" and then in the background there were signs saying "Jews only" and "Road for Jews only". I thought to myself wasn't this behaviour quite familiar to what the nazis did to the jews in WW2?

Too bad you don't take any notice of the fact that over 20% of Israel's population is Arab and that these Arab citizens of Israel have the same rights as any Jewish citizen.


One would think that they learned from that experience but it appears not. Hard to refrain from racism when those you hate seem to dwindle amongst a single group.

You complain that often when Israel is been criticized the "anti-semitic card" is pulled out. Well I can argue that many times instead of really crticizing Israel people simply pull out the "Jews should know better" card and even though our situation doesn't even resemble a littile bit what happend in Europe over 50 years ago and there is no room for comparison, it is still pulled out very often.

[Sabre]

Bulkowski wrote:
Someone how doesn't speak proper English wrote these... promis?

Someone WHO doesn't speak CORRECT English wrote these...


Vance wrote:
TOO MUCH DISCRIMINISM!!!111


RussianAmerican wrote:
Discriminism rofl rofl rofl rofl

Quick question, do either of you know the arabic for 'discrimination'?

...No, then shut the f*ck up and stop taking the piss.

Don't treat ordinary arabs as ignorant f*cks and learn from this:

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040304.jpg

If you f*ck around with someone else's family they are going to defend them, no matter what pretense you were doing it under. You would feel the same way in their shoes.

What pisses me off is this:

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031126.jpg

Not because it is attacking the UK, but beacause our politicians let us get to the point where we are open to attacks like this. We used to be very pro arab, our whole foreign policy for the past 80 years had been pro arab. We had spent so much time and invested so much in building relations with the middle east (and lost many soldiers defending friendly arab countries from aggressors) only for that effort to be cast aside by Tony Blair in his quest for god-knows-what.

[bloddyaxe]

Have you people heard of pro-israeli anti-semites...?

They do exist as well... do you like them better than anti-israeli pro-semites?

[Andyman]

yesh s-13 I understand what ur saying and please leave the mindless insults to urself cause hey u never know. But anyways its not like the cartoon is saying all jews are bad and that they should die. It's just saying that the U.S uses Israel as a foothold to eventually overthrow the arabs and to be honest if I was arabic living in the middle east right now I would probably feel the same. There is no denying that Israel and the US are in cahoots with each other and that is simply what the comic is getting at, that the u.s uses israel to steal and take advantage of the neighbouring arabic states. Thus unnecessary racism and prejudice against israels in my mind cannot be found in that comic.

Thanks that is all p-)

[big80a2]

Have you people heard of pro-israeli anti-semites...?



yeh... an arabisraeli who just got fierd at Jewspizza inc :roll: ;)

[S'13]

Andyman, I have already explained to you that the Star of David is one of the symbols of Judaism. If the the person who drew this cartoon wanted to imply that Israel and America are working together to steal and take advantage of the Arabs, why did he use a symbol of Judaism? Why didn't he simply, for example, write Israel on the coin just as he wrote U.S.A on the hat of the man waving the coin?

You wrote "its not like the cartoon is saying all jews are bad and that they should die". However today I saw a cartoon on fdt's other thread, the cartoon which was used as Nazi propaganda was depicting a Jew stealing land from a farmer, the cartoon didn't say that all Jews were bad or that they should all die. Are you saying this was also not anti-semitic? :cantbeli:

As I wrote before, the message which the cartoon is trying to send, is that the Jews (not Israel) and the U.S are trying to embezzle the Arabs.

If you find this message to be true then I can only feel sorry for you and if you don't think this message is anti-semitic then you are truly naive.

Anyway I think I made myself clear on this subject.

[Ekie]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031019.jpg

This one is purdy good. Shows us the external problem, what we can easily observe of the Evil Doers. That is they have taken the form of poverty, discrimination (I can think of a better word), and Al-Qaida. The cartoonist left out the roots of all three, which is very telling. The roots of all three is ignorance, brought by their pagan religion, Islam. While the cartoon only depicts the US addressing one manifestation, all three are being worked on (i.e. nation building in Stan and Iraq) but are the roots of the problem being addressed? Time will tell, but in order for Islam to survive the 21st Century it will have to go thru a Reformation of it's own, forced open them if we must (with no help from the EuroArabians, of course).

[Ekie]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20030910.jpg

In this one we see Uncle Sam's hand on a Muslim wallet. What is in it? Well, the Muslim wallet is full of US Dollars. Did they earn those US Dollars thru hard work, wise investment, and discipline? No, it was given to them by the US. And they thank us by pretending that we steal their money, like they have any of there own. So, in short, good cartoon showing the level of ignorance Islam has brought the Muslim community.

[Ekie]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031116.jpg

I do like this one. Where does the Muslim community get the idea that they are number 3 though? What is the basis of this idea? Number 3 in science? Number 3 in medicine? Number 3 in charity? Number 3 in academia? Number 3 in space exploration? Number 3 in productivity? Number 3 on living on a piece of land that has oil under it?

They have been on a downward slide as shown, no doubt, and for what, at least 100 years, if not a thousand years. The US will pull them up, as in Iraq, even with their most backward elements kicking and screaming the whole way.

[Ekie]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20040325.jpg

Another telling one, addressing one of the trees pictured above. That being poverty, in this case the root cause being ignorance brought about by Islam itself. Islam as practiced has taught the Muslim World that wealth, success, and achievement are something you gain by holding our your hand, or by theft.

[Deuterium]

Having just returned from Iraq I find it all quite funny. When you get to know your average Iraqi on a personal basis you earn all the stereotypes that have been force-fed to them. All of these cartoons add to these. The average Iraqi is quite astounded to find out that these stereotypes are blatantly false. It was always quite funny to hear all the Jewish stereotypes. Funny in that it would put you on the floor laughing when you heard some of these misconceptions. Literacy, access to the Internet, education will solve all of these problems.

[Ekie]

Not because it is attacking the UK, but beacause our politicians let us get to the point where we are open to attacks like this. We used to be very pro arab, our whole foreign policy for the past 80 years had been pro arab. We had spent so much time and invested so much in building relations with the middle east (and lost many soldiers defending friendly arab countries from aggressors) only for that effort to be cast aside by Tony Blair in his quest for god-knows-what.

If ridding Muslims of dictators such as Sadam, and freeing the Afghan's of the Taliban ain't "pro arab" then do tell what the heck is?

[Ars Moriendi]

From Syria or Asadland

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031019.jpg



Good one.

[Ars Moriendi]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20030910.jpg

In this Arab cartoon we see how the U.S uses a Star of David in order to steal from the Arabs. Just to let you know, the Star of David is one of the symbols of Judaism. But you don't see anything wrong here.


Let me share my interpretation. I see how US uses the Star of David as a tool to distract the arab. As soon as the arab is distracted (with his holy war against the jews or whatever) the US uses the opportunity to steal his money. I dont say you are wrong, you are probably right that it is anti-semitic, but I am sure there are several ways to interpret this cartoon.

[Sabre]

Ekie wrote:
If ridding Muslims of dictators such as Sadam, and freeing the Afghan's of the Taliban ain't "pro arab" then do tell what the heck is?

The British 'freed' the Omanis from Sha'ria law and backward looking opression via small numbers of highly trained troops operating in secret. We did not invade, but we were successful in creating the modern state of oman through partnership and co-operation with local government.

Arabs take a very dim view of non-arabs invading their land. By 'their land' they mean all muslim holy land. So arabs around the world would be very displeased by western armies plowing through into iraq, no matter what their aim.

They would have seen it has an entirely inapropriate act. Of course they would like Saddam to be deposed, but not in such a way.

You want to know what would be 'pro-arab'?

Listening to them. Doing what our partners, the friendly arab countries in the region, would see as the best course of action. Which would have been diplomacy and international pressure, but significantly Arab pressure on Saddam. Showing him that he has no support in the Arab world.

[GrimmyRX]

http://www.caricature-hasan.com/img/20031019.jpg

This one is purdy good. Shows us the external problem, what we can easily observe of the Evil Doers. That is they have taken the form of poverty, discrimination (I can think of a better word), and Al-Qaida. The cartoonist left out the roots of all three, which is very telling. The roots of all three is ignorance, brought by their pagan religion, Islam. While the cartoon only depicts the US addressing one manifestation, all three are being worked on (i.e. nation building in Stan and Iraq) but are the roots of the problem being addressed? Time will tell, but in order for Islam to survive the 21st Century it will have to go thru a Reformation of it's own, forced open them if we must (with no help from the EuroArabians, of course).

The other 2 trees arn't just refering to those two problems within the Arab world; rather, they are describing those two probably everywhere. You can't pin Discrimination and poverty all on the Islamic faith anymore than you can pin the discrimination and poverty within the US on the Christian faith.

[Ekie]

Arabs take a very dim view of non-arabs invading their land....

You want to know what would be 'pro-arab'?

Listening to them. Doing what our partners, the friendly arab countries in the region, would see as the best course of action. Which would have been diplomacy and international pressure, but significantly Arab pressure on Saddam. Showing him that he has no support in the Arab world.

Worrying about what "views" Arab's have, and listening them ended on 09-11-01. Time to fix the problem. Really, being flat out medieval ignorant passed the acceptable at that point.

[Ekie]

You can't pin Discrimination and poverty all on the Islamic faith anymore than you can pin the discrimination and poverty within the US on the Christian faith.

Comparing poverty, and discrimination in the USA to that found in the Islamic world? Good point, hmm yeah, maybe it is Islam that should come to the USA and show how it is done? Now we are getting some where. Instead of foot ball or the stock market as a pass time it could be replaced by public arena stoning, or beheadings? The US could replace church attendance with making home videos of human blood sacrifices? The US could abandon space exploration, academics, manufacture, charity, and investing, etc, with goat herding? Instead of being productive the US could take up taking hand outs from other countries? I am sure you have some more ideas, please, keep em coming, can't wait to hear more.

[ShadowNeo]

Comparing poverty, and discrimination in the USA to that found in the Islamic world? Good point, hmm yeah, maybe it is Islam that should come to the USA and show how it is done? Now we are getting some where. Instead of foot ball or the stock market as a pass time it could be replaced by public arena stoning, or beheadings? The US could replace church attendance with making home videos of human blood sacrifices? The US could abandon space exploration, academics, manufacture, charity, and investing, etc, with goat herding? Instead of being productive the US could take up taking hand outs from other countries? I am sure you have some more ideas, please, keep em coming, can't wait to hear more.

You have the most delluded, screwed up vision of the Islamic world I have ever seen.

[GrimmyRX]

You can't pin Discrimination and poverty all on the Islamic faith anymore than you can pin the discrimination and poverty within the US on the Christian faith.

Comparing poverty, and discrimination in the USA to that found in the Islamic world? Good point, hmm yeah, maybe it is Islam that should come to the USA and show how it is done? Now we are getting some where. Instead of foot ball or the stock market as a pass time it could be replaced by public arena stoning, or beheadings? The US could replace church attendance with making home videos of human blood sacrifices? The US could abandon space exploration, academics, manufacture, charity, and investing, etc, with goat herding? Instead of being productive the US could take up taking hand outs from other countries? I am sure you have some more ideas, please, keep em coming, can't wait to hear more.

Normally, a post with that kind of mis-information would usually warrent a "you're a f*cking moron." type of responce.

Lucky for you, I don't do that kind of thing... usually, lol.

You missed my point Ekie. My point was that you can't blame all the problems in the world on Religion, and you definetly can't blame all the problems in the world on the Islamic faith.

Just think about this for a second: the middle East along with Africa were colonial holdings of the West for a long time. During that time, their national populations were fairly repressed. Western (mostly christian if you think about it) civilizations tended to take what they wanted and gave nothing back. When this time of colonialism finally ended, do you know who was left in power? The Cronies, the murders, the greedy/ruthless bastard, because these were the people that helped the British, or the French or the German, etc..

Also, these current countries in the Middle east are creations of the West, for the most part, as well.

I'm not blaming all of the Middle East's woe's on the West, however. They have had a few chances to shape up, but so far, have failed to do it.

I recommend that you read "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's a Alternate history of the world, where europe was wiped out by the Black Plague, alowing the Chinese, Indian, North American and Islamic people to grow without mass colonailism. It actually offers quite a deep insite into might be refered to as the "real" Islam, or the non-Bastardized Islam.

[Ekie]

Normally, a post with that kind of mis-information would usually warrent a "you're a f*cking moron." type of responce.

Lucky for you, I don't do that kind of thing... usually, lol.


Hehe, I was thinking the same thing.



You missed my point Ekie. My point was that you can't blame all the problems in the world on Religion, and you definetly can't blame all the problems in the world on the Islamic faith.


OK, I won't blame them all on Islam, but answer me this, name more then one current/active violent armed conflict that does not involve Islam?



Just think about this for a second: the middle East along with Africa were colonial holdings of the West for a long time. During that time, their national populations were fairly repressed. Western (mostly christian if you think about it) civilizations tended to take what they wanted and gave nothing back. When this time of colonialism finally ended, do you know who was left in power? The Cronies, the murders, the greedy/ruthless bastard, because these were the people that helped the British, or the French or the German, etc..

Also, these current countries in the Middle east are creations of the West, for the most part, as well.


Do I hear violins playing? That is an excuse for barbarity? Sorry, but your explanation that modern acts of Islamofascist barbarity was inspired by former Western colonization of the Middle East is intellectually bankrupt, and is a denial of the true "roots" of the problem.



I'm not blaming all of the Middle East's woe's on the West, however. They have had a few chances to shape up, but so far, have failed to do it.


Ah yeah, and that failure is extreme and has reached such a level that it is a danger to the civilized world.



I recommend that you read "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's a Alternate history of the world, where europe was wiped out by the Black Plague, alowing the Chinese, Indian, North American and Islamic people to grow without mass colonailism. It actually offers quite a deep insite into might be refered to as the "real" Islam, or the non-Bastardized Islam.

"Real Islam", or "non-Bastardized Islam" has no relevance, and as such is quite uninteresting. So while discussing a serious modern threat to civilization you would recommend a book found in the fiction section? You were not by chance reading fiction books about "real communism" and such during the Cold War were ya? Just the same, thanks for the book recommendation.

[Ekie]

You have the most delluded, screwed up vision of the Islamic world I have ever seen.

Well gee, this is a prime opportunity for you to espouse the virtues of Islam, the religion of peace.

[GrimmyRX]

You missed my point Ekie. My point was that you can't blame all the problems in the world on Religion, and you definetly can't blame all the problems in the world on the Islamic faith.


OK, I won't blame them all on Islam, but answer me this, name more then one current/active violent armed conflict that does not involve Islam?

Give me a map of South America and I'll try and point out all the spots, lol.




Just think about this for a second: the middle East along with Africa were colonial holdings of the West for a long time. During that time, their national populations were fairly repressed. Western (mostly christian if you think about it) civilizations tended to take what they wanted and gave nothing back. When this time of colonialism finally ended, do you know who was left in power? The Cronies, the murders, the greedy/ruthless bastard, because these were the people that helped the British, or the French or the German, etc..

Also, these current countries in the Middle east are creations of the West, for the most part, as well.


Do I hear violins playing? That is an excuse for barbarity? Sorry, but your explanation that modern acts of Islamofascist barbarity was inspired by former Western colonization of the Middle East is intellectually bankrupt, and is a denial of the true "roots" of the problem.

Calling my proposition "intellectually bankrupt" in no way defeats my argument, lol. The "root" of the problem lies in the fact that Islam was never really allowed to come into it's own. Remember, Christianity enjoyed a time of bloody war and conflict as well, but without outside intervention, they were able to develope past their violence and grow into something that can be viewed as, usually, a good thing.

Basicly, I'm saying that Islam, right now, is where Christianity was in the dark and middle ages, except for that fact that the majority of muslims wouldn't burn/drown/hang/stone a person just for being non-muslim, as opposed to the Christians during the middle/ early 13 colony stage.

Wait a couple of Centuries, Rome wasn't built in a day you know, :D




I'm not blaming all of the Middle East's woe's on the West, however. They have had a few chances to shape up, but so far, have failed to do it.


Ah yeah, and that failure is extreme and has reached such a level that it is a danger to the civilized world.

Interesting way of putting it. Are you suggesting that Muslims and those of the Islamic Faith arn't civilized?




I recommend that you read "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley Robinson. It's a Alternate history of the world, where europe was wiped out by the Black Plague, alowing the Chinese, Indian, North American and Islamic people to grow without mass colonailism. It actually offers quite a deep insite into might be refered to as the "real" Islam, or the non-Bastardized Islam.

"Real Islam", or "non-Bastardized Islam" has no relevance, and as such is quite uninteresting. So while discussing a serious modern threat to civilization you would recommend a book found in the fiction section? You were not by chance reading fiction books about "real communism" and such during the Cold War were ya? Just the same, thanks for the book recommendation.

The book is basicly an extrapolation built apon what is known about the Muslim world at that time, and developed into a hypothosis into what it would be like today without christian interferance.

Remember, All science is fiction too, until it's proven.

Look, quite simply, the point I'm trying to make, is you're letting the minority of people who have twisted the meaning of the Koran and the Islamic faith colour your perception of the way a majority of people actually practice it. It's like saying that the KKK is what Christianity is about.

[Ekie]

Give me a map of South America and I'll try and point out all the spots, lol.

http://www.kented.org.uk/ngfl/rivers/images/south%20america%20map.jpg

Hmm, what, one conflict there? Purdy quite continent. What is the Muslim population there?




Calling my proposition "intellectually bankrupt" in no way defeats my argument, lol. The "root" of the problem lies in the fact that Islam was never really allowed to come into it's own. Remember, Christianity enjoyed a time of bloody war and conflict as well, but without outside intervention, they were able to develope past their violence and grow into something that can be viewed as, usually, a good thing.

Ah ha, yes, you are very close, now. The root is ignorance itself, and it is fed by Islam. And yes, Christian civilization went thru both a Renaissance, and a Reformation. Islam has not, but will thru "outside intervention", or suffer extinction.



Basicly, I'm saying that Islam, right now, is where Christianity was in the dark and middle ages, except for that fact that the majority of muslims wouldn't burn/drown/hang/stone a person just for being non-muslim, as opposed to the Christians during the middle/ early 13 colony stage.

There is a distinct similarity here in practice. I will point out a stark contrast though, Christians tried to convert non-Christians, and have killed them for not converting (for their own good of course). This was in direct opposition to the practices of Christ, the Disciples, and the Apostles. In Islam killing of "infidels" was practiced by their prophet, and condoned in the Quran.



Wait a couple of Centuries, Rome wasn't built in a day you know,

Wait? We are long past waiting, or tolerance, at this point action must be taken.



Interesting way of putting it. Are you suggesting that Muslims and those of the Islamic Faith arn't civilized?

Yes, and more importantly they are a threat to civilization. Barbarian hordes have long been the bane of civilization.



Look, quite simply, the point I'm trying to make, is you're letting the minority of people who have twisted the meaning of the Koran and the Islamic faith colour your perception of the way a majority of people actually practice it.

Twisted meanings of the Quran, colored perceptions, practice of the majority, or what ever,.... the implications of Islam upon the civilized world is what is important. These implications are death and terror.



It's like saying that the KKK is what Christianity is about.

That is a sick joke right? Or is it bore of ignorance of Christ's and the Prophet Mohamemd's teaching and deeds?

[Ekie]

Sorry that the picture did not work, will get you one later...

Here is a bigger picture:

http://www.didyouknow.cd/story/graphics/worldmapconflicts.gif

[Sabre]

Well gee, this is a prime opportunity for you to espouse the virtues of Islam, the religion of peace.

Do you know any muslims mate? I do. Try talking to one.


There is a distinct similarity here in practice. I will point out a stark contrast though, Christians tried to convert non-Christians, and have killed them for not converting (for their own good of course). This was in direct opposition to the practices of Christ, the Disciples, and the Apostles. In Islam killing of "infidels" was practiced by their prophet, and condoned in the Quran.

Christianity, that would be the same religion in which the God killed the first born sons of all the Egyptians, simply for the actions of the Pharoh?


That is a sick joke right? Or is it bore of ignorance of Christ's and the Prophet Mohamemd's teaching and deeds?

Sounds like someone is a tad 'ignorant' himself.
Here's some 'Bilbe quotes' for you:

God's anger is sometimes turned away by killing people (Num 25:4,
8, 2 Sam 21).

David is praised for ten thousand slain (1 Sam 18:6-8).

The Israelites slaughter Hamor and his city and plunder it (Gen
34).

Moses is commanded by God to exterminate the Canaanites, the
Amorites and the people of Bashan "and show no mercy" (Deut
7:1-2, 9:3, Num 21).

Moses orders "every man" among the Israelites to slay his
brother, companion and neighbor, as a punishment for the
idolatry of all, and 3000 die (Ex 32:27-28).

God commands Moses to slaughter 24,000 people and hang their
heads in the sun (Num 25).

God commands Moses to slay the Midianites because the Israelites
are seduced by them. All males (including infants) and
adult women are killed; virgins are enslaved (Num 25:17,
31:1-2, 7, 15-18).

God's annihilation of Sihon's people and others (Deut 2:30-35,
36, 3:1-7).

God commands Moses, in any city near the promised land which does
not agree to become a vassal state of the Israelites, to
kill all the males and take the women and children as slaves
and the animals as booty, but in any city in the promised
land the Israelites are to kill every living thing, sparing
no one (Deut 20:10-17).

Joshua, with the help of God, annihilates numerous tribes and
cities, "left none breathing," "destroyed all that breathed,
as God commanded" (Josh 6:21, 8:24-27, 10:, 11:11,14,21-22).

Judah slays 10,000 Canaanites (Judg 1:4) and 10,000 Moabites
(Judg 3:29)

Danites destroy "peaceful" Laish and kill its people for no
reason (Judg 18:27).

Judah and Simeon utterly destroy Zephath (Judg 1:17).

Samuel tells Saul that God wants to annihilate the Amalekites,
including infants and women, which Saul then does, slaying
all the inhabitants except Agag the king (1 Sam 15:1-9).

David leaves no man or woman alive in the countries he invades:
Geshurites, Gezrites and Amalekites (1 Sam 27:9,11).

David takes Rabbah and puts its people "under saws...and harrows
... and axes of iron and made them pass through the
brickkiln" and does the same to all the cities of Ammon (2
Sam 12:31, 1 Chr 20:3).

David executes 2/3 of Moab by measuring a line (2 Sam 8:2).

More slaughter by David (2 Sam 8:5, 13, 10:18).

God helps Judah kill 50,000 Israelites (2 Chr 13:17).

Esther gets permission for the Jews to slaughter all their
enemies, including women and children, which they do, then
celebrate it and institute the feast of Purim to remember it
(Esther 8:11, 9:1-19).

"Let none [of Babylon] escape" (Jer 50:29).

"Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children,"
says God (Ezek 9:6).

See http://home.teleport.com/~packham/bible.htm#HUMANSAC for more.


Yes, and more importantly they are a threat to civilization. Barbarian hordes have long been the bane of civilization.

Mesopotamia was the cradle of civilisation. Babylon was located there for well over 1000 years, until it was sacked. Guess who did that.

[Ekie]

Do you know any muslims mate? I do. Try talking to one.

Yes I do, do you know any Christians there bud?



Christianity, that would be the same religion in which the God killed the first born sons of all the Egyptians, simply for the actions of the Pharoh?

Yeah, what is your point? Maybe God is going to kill the first born in Egypt again?



Sounds like someone is a tad 'ignorant' himself.
Here's some 'Bilbe quotes' for you:

Those are quotes dealing with actions taken by the Israelites. What is your point? Is that a slam on Judaism? Or are you ignorant of the fact that a Christian is one that follows Christ, and seeks to become Christ like? Hence the name, "Christian". By the way, Christ never beheaded infidels while screaming ALLAH AKBAR! Seems rather obvious, but hey, I have no idea where you are coming from.

And while we are at it, a Muslim is one who follows Islam, and the Prophet Mohammed. Are you at all familiar with the teachings and the actions taken by the Prophet Mohammed? I could help you out if you were so inclined. It ain't purdy.



Mesopotamia was the cradle of civilisation. Babylon was located there for well over 1000 years, until it was sacked. Guess who did that.

Well, afraid we can't blame either the Christians or the Muslims for that one, being there was no such thing as either at the time.

[mobster]

Sorry, I can't understand that religion. Very 3rd world thinking, they seem closer to gorillas and other primates than humans. Just my opinion though.

[Ekie]

Sorry, I can't understand that religion. Very 3rd world thinking, they seem closer to gorillas and other primates than humans. Just my opinion though.

I can see why one could be quite confused. For example US politicians frequently argue that the Iraqi will not be able to succeed as a democracy, because of who they are. As if they were born genetically inferior, and incapable of rational thought, or "ape men" as you alluded. That is obviously not at all the case. The problem is simply Islamofascism, just as was Nazism, Communism, and Japanese Imperialism were problems in the past. All were defeated, and their people are for the most part now productive members of modern civilization. All these "isms" had a quasi religious or cult like status. They also had sympathizers, and apologist such as Chamberlain in WWII and now Islam has France, and Germany (plus Sabre and GrimmyRX, hehe).

Another factor in Islam that makes it confusing for most is that it has two faces. It would seem that Sabre is vary familiar with it's friendly Western face. The face of Islam as taught in the Quran, and as practiced by it's prophet Mohammed, and modern practitioners such as Osama, and as directly witnessed by Daniel Pearle and Nick Berg is the face of evil. This second face is purposely hidden thru lies and deceit, if interested, go here from more info:

www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/face_of_islam.htm

[mobster]

Well put, just the radical extremists then. I just wish they were not so savage.

[GrimmyRX]

Give me a map of South America and I'll try and point out all the spots, lol.

http://www.kented.org.uk/ngfl/rivers/images/south%20america%20map.jpg

Hmm, what, one conflict there? Purdy quite continent. What is the Muslim population there?

There is one point of open and declaired warfair. The Muslime content is Almost Nil. Yet, it's a continent strife with discord. Maybe not all out war, but violent civil unrest and corruption.





Calling my proposition "intellectually bankrupt" in no way defeats my argument, lol. The "root" of the problem lies in the fact that Islam was never really allowed to come into it's own. Remember, Christianity enjoyed a time of bloody war and conflict as well, but without outside intervention, they were able to develope past their violence and grow into something that can be viewed as, usually, a good thing.

Ah ha, yes, you are very close, now. The root is ignorance itself, and it is fed by Islam. And yes, Christian civilization went thru both a Renaissance, and a Reformation. Islam has not, but will thru "outside intervention", or suffer extinction.

On that same token, ignorance is also fed by the Jewish and Christian Faith. Islam, Christian and Jewish faiths, are, after all, 3 sides to the same damn book. Funny how these 3 religions have managed to cause a whole lot more bloodshed then lets say, Buddisum and Taoism, (which do not worship a deity, rather principles of peace and good living).

It took over 1000 years for Christianity to go through that process, and STILL we have those that practice Christianity by some sort of cult. Do you Begrudge another religion the same time? (yes, I know Islam is older than Christianity, but it's development has been interupted several times by that self same "outside intervention" that you propose would cause it to undergo "both a Renaissance, and a Reformation.")




Basicly, I'm saying that Islam, right now, is where Christianity was in the dark and middle ages, except for that fact that the majority of muslims wouldn't burn/drown/hang/stone a person just for being non-muslim, as opposed to the Christians during the middle/ early 13 colony stage.

There is a distinct similarity here in practice. I will point out a stark contrast though, Christians tried to convert non-Christians, and have killed them for not converting (for their own good of course). This was in direct opposition to the practices of Christ, the Disciples, and the Apostles. In Islam killing of "infidels" was practiced by their prophet, and condoned in the Quran.

(I'm gonna assume that the whole "for their own good" was a somewhat sarcastic and ironic referance to the act and not a actual endorsment of the act. It is, after all, the Internet, and sometimes you can't tell, lol)

Give me the lines that state specificly that particular proposition. After that, consider this: the Quran is like the Torah, (or possibly like the Old Testimate) both are extreamly old books that have existed long before the current New Testimate. The current Christian faith having basicly developed FROM the older Jewish Faith.

Now consider that both the Old Testimate and the Torah might be translated as supporting the killing of those of a different faith.

The Quran is basicly in that stage, it just needs time and no outside interferance to develop. The more outside interferance, the more people will cling to the current Quran for hope. Because, in the end, that's what the bible, the Old Test, the New Test, the Torah and the Quran is FOR. It's for hope.




Wait a couple of Centuries, Rome wasn't built in a day you know,

Wait? We are long past waiting, or tolerance, at this point action must be taken.

I dunno, the christian faith took over 1000 years to get to where is it today, and still you have those that would have it back slide into ignorance and bigotry.




Interesting way of putting it. Are you suggesting that Muslims and those of the Islamic Faith arn't civilized?

Yes, and more importantly they are a threat to civilization. Barbarian hordes have long been the bane of civilization.

I'm not going to waste time arguing to you about this particular point. All I can say is that I very much disagree with your stance on this. Infact, I STRONGLY disagree on your stance on this. Muslims are as civilized as you and me, and are not "barbarian hordes", Period. I think though, that we will have to agree to disagree on this point.




Look, quite simply, the point I'm trying to make, is you're letting the minority of people who have twisted the meaning of the Koran and the Islamic faith colour your perception of the way a majority of people actually practice it.

Twisted meanings of the Quran, colored perceptions, practice of the majority, or what ever,.... the implications of Islam upon the civilized world is what is important. These implications are death and terror.

Just like the crusades and the Spanish Inq., the difference between then and now? The Crusades and the S.I killed a LOT more people than the current Radical muslim activities and were supported by a larger percent, of the then Christian population.




It's like saying that the KKK is what Christianity is about.

That is a sick joke right? Or is it bore of ignorance of Christ's and the Prophet Mohamemd's teaching and deeds?

When you read that, I'm guessing your initial responce went something like "WTF? The KKK has NOTHING to do with Christianity! ARE YOU A ****ING MORON??? ARE YOU IGNORANT?"

That, my friend, IS MY POINT.




Do you know any muslims mate? I do. Try talking to one.

Yes I do, do you know any Christians there bud?

I know both Christians and Muslims. Ekie, tell me, do you go up to your Muslim friends and say: "You are part of a barbarian horde that needs outside intervention to be brought into the new and civilized world?"

[Ekie]

There is one point of open and declaired warfair. The Muslime content is Almost Nil. Yet, it's a continent strife with discord. Maybe not all out war, but violent civil unrest and corruption.

Strife with discord? Hehe, sounds like your are describing a Islamic continent, like say this one:

http://www.hartionline.ro/lume/africa.gif

Care to guess how many Islamic fueled active wars are being fought there today?



On that same token, ignorance is also fed by the Jewish and Christian Faith.

Interesting, but which one is it that has followers that behead innocents whilst calling their god's name, on video no less? Give you a hint, it is a bad one. Yes, bad, as in does bad things. You could even say EVIL things, done by evil doers.



Islam, Christian and Jewish faiths, are, after all, 3 sides to the same damn book. Funny how these 3 religions have managed to cause a whole lot more bloodshed then lets say, Buddisum and Taoism, (which do not worship a deity, rather principles of peace and good living).

I guess that is funny?



It took over 1000 years for Christianity to go through that process, and STILL we have those that practice Christianity by some sort of cult. Do you Begrudge another religion the same time?

Did not follow you here. I think that is a typo?



(yes, I know Islam is older than Christianity,..

What? Did you read that in a fiction book? Whoa there now. What the? Gee, to think I wasted my time on this post. Should have read the whole thing first. Gee whiz took me awhile to see where you were coming from. I did notice and call you on a few obvious misconceptions, but had no idea it was that bad.

[GrimmyRX]

There is one point of open and declaired warfair. The Muslime content is Almost Nil. Yet, it's a continent strife with discord. Maybe not all out war, but violent civil unrest and corruption.

Strife with discord? Hehe, sounds like your are describing a Islamic continent, like say this one:

http://www.hartionline.ro/lume/africa.gif

Care to guess how many Islamic fueled active wars are being fought there today?

*Shrug* I never said that Africa wasn't rife with Discord. But it's not the only land that is, and South America is just as bad, if not worse in some ways.




On that same token, ignorance is also fed by the Jewish and Christian Faith.

Interesting, but which one is it that has followers that behead innocents whilst calling their god's name, on video no less? Give you a hint, it is a bad one. Yes, bad, as in does bad things. You could even say EVIL things, done by evil doers.

And which one has had it's priests engage in illegal ****** activity with thousands apon thousand of unwilling little boys, scarring them for life? Give you a hint, it's a bad one. Yes, bad, as in does bad things. You could even say EVIL things done by evil doers.




It took over 1000 years for Christianity to go through that process, and STILL we have those that practice Christianity like some sort of cult. Do you Begrudge another religion the same time?

Did not follow you here. I think that is a typo?

Yep, was a typo, thanks for pointing it out. ^_^



(yes, I know Islam is older than Christianity,..

What? Did you read that in a fiction book? Whoa there now. What the? Gee, to think I wasted my time on this post. Should have read the whole thing first. Gee whiz took me awhile to see where you were coming from. I did notice and call you on a few obvious misconceptions, but had no idea it was that bad.[/quote]

Ack, now there was a mistake, lol, I thought it said "571 BC" not "571 AD" :oops: ^^;; Thanks for catching that one too.

*Shrug* in anycase, that makes my argument stronger.