PDA

View Full Version : This week in rebuilt Jenin



ariweiner
06-11-2004, 03:05 AM
This week in rebuilt Jenin
By Gideon Levy
Is there any other neighborhood in the universe with streets whose width was adapted to the dimensions of a tank? Is there any other urban planner who took the width of the Merkava Mark III tank into account?

Slightly over two years after Israel Defense Forces bulldozers destroyed the center of the Jenin refugee camp, a white city has arisen from the ruins of "ground zero." Of the 530 residential units leveled by the IDF in operation Defensive Shield in April 2002, about 100 new apartments have already been built. Last week the first families moved into their new homes, and by the end of the summer, the Jenin camp will have a new and well-designed center, the width of whose streets has been especially adapted to the dimensions of Israeli tanks.
There were residents who objected bitterly: Why should they be the ones to make an invasion easier? Others felt it was better to pave streets that were sufficiently wide, so that maybe the tanks wouldn't call on the bulldozers to destroy their homes again. After an internal debate in the camp, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which is doing the rebuilding, decided that the Jenin camp wouldn't be a security asset, a defensive shield or a land barrier, and the movement of the tanks should be eased. The original area of each refugee home, which can be seen in the old aerial photographs taken by Israel, was reduced by 15 percent, and about 100 families were relocated in a new neighborhood that was built in the lower part of the camp. A thinning of the population density - in order to enable the paving of service roads for armored vehicles.

Instead of the narrow alleys, some of which were merely the width of a man, there are now arteries of 8-10 meters, more than enough for the steel monsters that sow destruction. Is there any other neighborhood in the universe with streets whose width was adapted to the dimensions of a tank? Is there any other urban planner who took the width of the Merkava Mark III tank into account? Whatever the case, a few days ago, the tanks came again, and one of them has already damaged the foundations of a building under construction.

There were also many in the camp who thought that the new houses should not be better designed and more beautiful than the original ones. They thought that the character of the refugee camp must be preserved, for political reasons. "We've lost the right of return," warned A., a member of the camp committee, sadly, at the sight of the new houses.

They have painted the facades of the new houses in ground zero, the ruined heart of the camp, a fashionable cream color, and used white for the houses in the new neighborhood on the southern border of the camp, for the families who agreed to accept alternative housing a short distance away from their original homes. Light-colored houses with straight lines; some of them even have spacious balconies. Bauhaus in Jenin; Unesco is on the way (Tel Aviv has just been declared a Unesco World Heritage Site because of its concentration of Bauhaus architecture).

A $29 million donation from the United Arab Emirates was handed over to UNRWA to restore the ruins. The work that has been done here is impressive, with finishing that is not typical of refugee camps. Even Saddam Hussein helped: He promised $25,000 to every family whose home was destroyed, managed to pay 100 families, and descended into the pit. These lucky families, together with several others who can afford it because they were adopted by donors from abroad, made all kinds of additions to the standard construction. This week we saw in the Jenin camp, for the first time in its history, some well-designed children's rooms, shiny kitchens, Belgian windows, Italian marble, Spanish tiles, Japanese refrigerators and Mediterranean fountains. In spite of that, there's no great joy there.





A model apartment: The Sabar home. Cream colored facade, two levels, three rooms and a kitchen on each level, blue children's room, yellow living room with an arch in the middle, something the father of the family had always dreamed of. Now Jamal is on the wall, looking at his family's designer living room from the heights of his commemorative poster. During the IDF invasion, he left their house by order of the soldiers who were gathering together all the men in the camp, his bag of medications in hand. He was diabetic. Eyewitnesses said that the soldiers asked him to remove his shirt, and then his pants. When they saw the bag, they shot him. He was 38 at the time of his death, a plasterer, unarmed and not a fighter. For a week his corpse was left rolling around on the sand, tanks running over it, until G. managed to save the remains and bring them to the hospital morgue.

In the house, Nadra and her three children remain. With their house destroyed and their father dead, they received donations, and now their house is the nicest in the camp. "It's very hard for me, we left the house together, and I returned by myself with the children," she sighed in her black widow's weeds. When the bulldozers razed their house, she hid with her children in a storage room on the ground floor, until she managed to flee to neighbors. For a week, nobody told them that the body of their Jamal was in the street. Last week they moved into their gleaming new house. A bouquet of fresh flowers in a vase, a rare thing here, a present from the neighbors. There are new sofas and old sofas that were reupholstered, everything in shades of yellow. Ceramic tiles in matching colors.

When the first missiles hit their house, Jamal still tried to calm them down, says Nadra. "`Why are you crying?'" he asked the children. "`I'll build you a new house, a nicer one.' And in the end he went - he didn't build and he didn't return."





Hassan al-Ruza is a teacher of geography and history. During the summer vacation - which has already begun in the camp - he is trying to add a room for himself instead of the patio that UNRWA set aside for him in the apartment it is building on the ruins of his house. This week he was busy digging the pit for the pillar that will support the fourth room. The teacher, who is now using the knowledge he accumulated as a worker on the scaffolds in Haifa, has 11 children. On the new white facade of the house opposite, there are already bullet holes. At night there were soldiers here.

The windows are opposite one another, and a neighbor complained: "We're not used to a person being able to look into another's home." Now it's possible. An armed man passed quickly in the street, staying close to the walls, wearing a flight jacket in the June heat, a machine gun on his shoulder, swallowed up in one of the houses. All the homeless lived until now in rented houses whose rental was also paid for by the emirs of the Gulf. Nobody remained in the street. Jenin is like an island amid the chaos.





The data: 100 residential units have already been completed, 70 families have already returned to their homes. About 1,000 workers are involved in the construction work, and their wages are NIS 40 per day for nonprofessionals and NIS 70 for professionals, from 6 A.M. until the evening hours, sometimes quite late. Most of the laborers come from the surrounding villages rather than the camp, because of the low wages and the fact that it's temporary work. Work began last June, and was frozen in October for about five months because of the killing of the UNRWA project manager, Ian Hook, by the IDF.

Each family gets three or four rooms, depending on the size of its former home. The present manager, Paul Wolstenholme, is pressing to have the work finished by September, but the Palestinian engineers know that there's no chance it will happen before December.



The Nashrati home: Here everything is standard, with no additions. Two stories, three rooms on each floor, white walls and regulation tiles, like the previous house, only newer. The kitchen and toilets have been upgraded. There is no furniture, only piles of mattresses in the corners of the rooms. Here live Asmahan and Jamal Nashrati and their 10 children. Asmahan is pleased. She has returned home. Her Jamal has another, new wife in the house opposite, who has one son.

"There's sadness in my heart. A new house isn't everything," says the unhappy husband of the two women, who hasn't given up his dream of returning to Zarin, his parents' lost village, 20 kilometers from his renovated home in the refugee camp. Last week they moved into the new house.

There's garlic for luck on the railings of the balcony in the home of the former commander of Islamic Jihad in the camp, the fallen Mohammed Tualba. This house has also been rebuilt now on the ruins of its predecessor. The way to the house passes through the old alleys of the camp, which are the width of a man. "When these alleys no longer exist, the poets won't have anything to write," says A. sadly. He was strongly opposed to paving the roads for the tanks. In the dim light of the new house of the Jihad commander's family sits his father, Ahmed Tualba, looking much older than his 53 years. A former employee of Solel Boneh, an Israeli construction company, he has had a hard life, and speaks softly, in a broken voice. For three months he has been trying to visit his sister, who is a cancer patient in Jordan, but Israel is preventing him from leaving. He is convinced that it's all because of Mohammed. A few days ago, he set out again, and was brought back from the bridge, humiliated. "Because of my son am I to blame? My file is clean. In Israel, an 18-year-old - his father is no longer responsible for him, and he (Mohammed) was already 24. Do I want my son to die? If I want my son to die, I'm crazy."

The new living room, brown ceramic tiles, light brown sofas decorated with three purple and gold ships. Two of them were made by his jailed sons. Two sons in the Megiddo Prison and one in the Be'er Sheva Prison, not including the dead Mohammed. Murad set out for Haifa wearing an explosives belt, apparently inspired by Mohammed, or even under his orders. Three times he was supposed to blow himself up, and changed his mind at the last moment. His father says that the third time was when he saw a woman and a child. He was caught and sentenced to 13.5 years in prison. Ala, his brother, is in prison and his father says he is mentally ill: "Ala only talks all the time and doesn't do anything, he's afraid even of a cat."

"Captain Jamal" of the Shin Bet security services came to arrest him, and Ala wasn't at home. He returned after three days, and his father went to hand him over to the Shin Bet captain. Now he has been an administrative detainee for a year and eight months, without a trial; he's about 18. "My wife and I are not allowed to visit the children. Do you know what Ala wants us to send him? A big teddy bear. We bought and sent him a big teddy bear. That's Ala - he's all talk." And Raad has also been in prison without trial, since the incursion; according to residents of the camp, he's not a fighter either, and is in prison because of the sins of his brothers.

How does he feel in the new house? Tualba's face contorts, trying very hard not to burst into tears in the presence of the stranger. "Maybe you can help me with my sister?"

WolverineBlue
06-11-2004, 03:39 AM
Ariweiner -- all I have to say to you is this -- tell your brothers to stop the terrorism, adopt democracy, and everything will be good. You can kick the Russians, the Israelis, whomever out, if you will stop the blood-letting.

M_S
06-11-2004, 07:53 AM
Good post airwiener, just ignore these "its all their fault" sad people here.

citizen-k
06-11-2004, 08:14 AM
"Ground zero" rofl

Man, your rhetoric is so lame... A few houses used by TERRORISTS were blown up during a militray operation - unlike other armies the IDF didn't just bomb it from the air, and paid for it with dead soldiers.

If the Palestinians are describing whats going on as war maybe its about time we will turn it into one, huh?
You know, WAR - where you see tanks & air planes doing there best to smash the enemy - "6 Days war" style, do you think any one will remain to report it in such a fantastic way?

Ground zero my ass... next time you have your own government and military force try to esteblish a state instead of searching new ways to slaughter school kids, that is, if you can ever do such a a thing...

A lame nation deserves a lame history... yours will never be lamer then it is now, think you can at least keep it as it is without making it any worse?

W(M)D
06-11-2004, 08:17 AM
The Pals can get good benefits out of the whole thing, new apartments -sounds like an 'insurance job' to me.
All those people have is 'squatters rights'.

Javehn
06-11-2004, 10:11 AM
Gideon Levi ...

Couple of things : UNRWA wants to rebuild the naighbours in a way , that the camp will finnaly enter 19 century from arcitectual point of view-20 or 21 century style building is too much for them (if you have been "so many times and times" and middle east , ariesweiner , you should know how ****y architects your brothers in faith are . Usually it's better to straighten the place , and not to build the city on the mountaints , where half street is up and down . And usually streets should be wider then foot and a half , it helps when you are not building your house on the middle of the road ).

It reminds me somewhat of the lisence plate talk . Yes , if the streets will be more wider then my leg , tank could pass . So are the cars of UNRWA and ambulances and regular cars will get faster to their destination .

I don't think Gideon wrote there that the guys are not only disagreed to rebuild , they also threatend UNRWA workers (who are supposedly their own brothers in blood and faith ) with armed gunmen .

They wanna live in **** ?? Fine by me . Just don't blame others as usuall .
A , and Merkava3 dimentions ? It's hardly a dimentions of one way condow approach road . Taken into account ... :roll:

W(M)D
06-11-2004, 10:42 AM
Quote from article:

....... the Jenin camp will have a new and well-designed center, the width of whose streets has been especially adapted to the dimensions of Israeli tanks.......



Hey Hairy Whinger, do you know if they have adapted the traffic lights also so that IDF tank drivers can see the traffic lights change through their tank vision blocks when they come driving through??!!!

Apparently, all new windows in these developments have to be of a minimum size in order to allow IDF helicopter launched missiles to enter the building easily. LOL

ExtraT
06-11-2004, 11:38 AM
Instead of the narrow alleys, some of which were merely the width of a man, there are now arteries of 8-10 meters, more than enough for the steel monsters that sow destruction.


Well, there you go - a definite improvement. And some people say you can't force people to adopt a different culture... :cantbeli: :cantbeli:



Is there any other neighborhood in the universe with streets whose width was adapted to the dimensions of a tank?


Considering that all modern tanks are built to fit into standard roads (they have to fit into trailers and rail cars), I'd say that EVERY modern city has it's streets "adapted for simensions of a tank"

Pals should be grateful - instead of a chaotic snakepit that they used to have (and which they themselves turned into a minefield), they now will have a modern city.

ExtraT
06-11-2004, 11:49 AM
Good post airwiener, just ignore these "its all their fault" sad people here.

Sad????? rofl rofl rofl rofl

Dream on.

Don't you know that having enemies that fanatically hate you is one of the defenitions of happiness??
But I guess you are too old for this kind of enlightenment, eh? All you know is blind hate.

Well, go on and hate us. And we'll be happy. :bash: :bash: :bash:

Moledet
06-11-2004, 12:33 PM
They now need to rebuild, MK4 will soon enter the IDF and I think that it's wider (in the turret), or they can just move to Jordan, they will have completely normal life there.

P.S. Three tons of explosives were found in Jenin, that's enough to take down the highest building in Israel (about 245 meters tall).

ExtraT
06-11-2004, 12:48 PM
This article is pure gold - a quintessence of Arab propaganda.
I guess Dr. Goebbels would have been very proud.


After an internal debate in the camp, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), which is doing the rebuilding, decided that the Jenin camp wouldn't be a security asset, a defensive shield or a land barrier, and the movement of the tanks should be eased.


So, what they are saying is that UNRWA actually concidered the rebuilding from tactical point of view? Is URNWA a Combat Engineering Corps for pals? :cantbeli:



The original area of each refugee home, which can be seen in the old aerial photographs taken by Israel, was reduced by 15 percent, and about 100 families were relocated in a new neighborhood that was built in the lower part of the camp. A thinning of the population density - in order to enable the paving of service roads for armored vehicles.


Let me get this straight: they want to pave better, wider roads. They calculate the area needed and see that there's too muich population. So, they reduce the area of the city, and relocate a hundred families elsewhere. What kind of a logic is that?? rofl
Oh, and I guess, the incresed level of life that pals get from smaller population density is just an "unfortunate side effect", right? rofl rofl rofl rofl



There were also many in the camp who thought that the new houses should not be better designed and more beautiful than the original ones. They thought that the character of the refugee camp must be preserved, for political reasons.


Incredible. They are being handed a better life right now, but all they can think of is their hate. That's just sick.



"We've lost the right of return," warned A., a member of the camp committee, sadly, at the sight of the new houses.


RETURN TO WHERE?? The houses they left in 1948 NO LONGER EXIST. So, he is complaining that he gets a new, free house, and can't get a house that he lost almost 60 years ago. It's simply amazing.



Bauhaus in Jenin; Unesco is on the way (Tel Aviv has just been declared a Unesco World Heritage Site because of its concentration of Bauhaus architecture).


It must be really painful for a pal to live in a house that looks like a house in Tel-Aviv.
Wait, but how will they feell if their dream comes true, and they "push all the Jews into the sea"? I mean, then they will live in Jews' houses.
I guess they will just have to learn to live with such a great such an enormous sacrifice. :roll:


The work that has been done here is impressive, with finishing that is not typical of refugee camps.

Yeah. Definetly not typical. A term "refugee camp" usually associates in my head with rows and rows of tents and not with


well-designed children's rooms, shiny kitchens, Belgian windows, Italian marble, Spanish tiles, Japanese refrigerators and Mediterranean fountains.


Maybe it's time to call it what it is: A CITY? But I guess that wouldn't sit with these wealthy Persian Gulf emirs - they need pals for cannon fodder, and everybody knows that "refugee camps" (especially long term ones) are the best places to breed it.



Even Saddam Hussein helped: He promised $25,000 to every family whose home was destroyed, managed to pay 100 families, and descended into the pit.


Good old filantropist Saddam. He payed 25,000 to the families of suicide bombers.
But don't you worry - Saddam is gone, but Hizbullah took over the expenses. Only they don't pay a flat rate - they pay 5000 bucks per Jewish head (is it 5000? I'm not sure about the exact number). Not many people can say with absolute certainty how much money their life is worth, but Israeli citizens can.



The windows are opposite one another, and a neighbor complained: "We're not used to a person being able to look into another's home." Now it's possible.


Welcome to modern urban life. I know it's hard to come out of the middle ages - but you must do it sooner or later.



An armed man passed quickly in the street, staying close to the walls, wearing a flight jacket in the June heat, a machine gun on his shoulder, swallowed up in one of the houses.


And what do you know? I guess the work is not yet complete. If they continue with their ****, they will get many more chances to rebuild these alleys as wide, or as narrow as their heart desires. But the blame for that will rest solelely on their shoulders.

Moledet
06-11-2004, 12:55 PM
ExtraT, when you give them a finger they won't the whole hand.

Mr. Nielsen
06-11-2004, 02:16 PM
Perhaps, it would be better if the UNRWA were building some of these instead.

http://www.63rdinfdiv.com/photo-dragonsteethensheimarea.jpg

Javehn
06-11-2004, 02:28 PM
Perhaps, it would be better if the UNRWA were building some of these instead.

http://www.63rdinfdiv.com/photo-dragonsteethensheimarea.jpg

Why not ? It seams that your Palestinian friends don't want nothing better .
If they bellieve that to live in better terms is bad because of Israelies , then please . Live in 15 century . What this gotta do with us .

ExtraT
06-11-2004, 02:29 PM
Perhaps, it would be better if the UNRWA were building some of these instead.

http://www.63rdinfdiv.com/photo-dragonsteethensheimarea.jpg

Instead, eh? Tell me, and where will these people (that you claim to like so much) are going to live?

Pals are just cannon fodder for you, right? Expendable cannon fodder in your fight for arian supremacy.

You f*cken nazi. :bash: :bash: :bash:

born_to_love
06-11-2004, 07:15 PM
A model apartment: The Sabar home. Cream colored facade, two levels, three rooms and a kitchen on each level, blue children's room, yellow living room with an arch in the middle,

What are they bitching about? they were living in god damn shacks before that

ariweiner
06-11-2004, 07:35 PM
Firstly this article was written by a Jew.
Secondly, I do not think that anyone would want a better house built on the graves of their loved ones and adapted to assist an invading army.

Moledet
06-11-2004, 07:55 PM
Firstly this article was written by a Jew.
Secondly, I do not think that anyone would want a better house built on the graves of their loved ones and adapted to assist an invading army.
Well Naturi Karta are also Jewish.
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.

ariweiner
06-12-2004, 02:19 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...

Javehn
06-12-2004, 04:15 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...

You are the Islamic "expert" here . You claim there is no thing as "72 virgins" . Well , Islamic expert , now find me place in Kuran where Jerusalem mentioned once .



Firstly this article was written by a Jew.
Secondly, I do not think that anyone would want a better house built on the graves of their loved ones and adapted to assist an invading army.


You have Jewish roots , and check how ****ed up you become , piece of **** idiot . "and adapted to assist an invading army" - ****er , did you read any of what's written above ? "To assist an invading army" means any streets that don't look like they are taken from 12 century , idiot .

I see where you also got the perverted logic ...

S'13
06-12-2004, 06:34 AM
UNWRA said halting work in Jenin camp in wake of threats

By Haaretz Service

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA, has decided to suspend its activities in the Jenin refugee camp, following threats from armed Palestinians, Army Radio reported Saturday.

According to the report, the armed Palestinians broke into the UNRWA offices in the camp, and demanded bigger apartments than those they had received as part of the agency's rebuilding efforts in the wake of the 2002 Israel Defense Forces demolitions there.

The UN agency has built some 70 homes to replace those demolished during the IDF's "Operation Defensive Shield," the radio said.

During the fighting in the camp, 13 IDF soldiers and more than 50 Palestinians were killed.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/438179.html

Moledet
06-12-2004, 08:50 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...
Flee? No, they will only move, like many others did and do. I don't know exactly how many Palestinians left thanks to Moledet, but from what I see when I visit the office quite a lot are interested.

/McH\
06-12-2004, 09:00 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...
Flee? No, they will only move, like many others did and do. I don't know exactly how many Palestinians left thanks to Moledet, but from what I see when I visit the office quite a lot are interested.

I have read a few months ago in the Newspaper that about 150,000 Palasitians left to Jordan since the beginning of the Intifada by their own will.

Moledet
06-12-2004, 09:19 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...
Flee? No, they will only move, like many others did and do. I don't know exactly how many Palestinians left thanks to Moledet, but from what I see when I visit the office quite a lot are interested.

I have read a few months ago in the Newspaper that about 150,000 Palasitians left to Jordan since the beginning of the Intifada by their own will.
33% said that they will leave for a house, job, and 250,000$ (per family), the rest will probably leave if they will see that parts of their family is leaving.

P.S. I've just read the Mahmud A-zahar (hamas leader) said that they will keep attacking Israel even after it will pull out of Gaza. Too bad that the Israelis are too naive and blind to see what will happen thanks to the Bulldozer plan.

/McH\
06-12-2004, 09:33 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...
Flee? No, they will only move, like many others did and do. I don't know exactly how many Palestinians left thanks to Moledet, but from what I see when I visit the office quite a lot are interested.

I have read a few months ago in the Newspaper that about 150,000 Palasitians left to Jordan since the beginning of the Intifada by their own will.
33% said that they will leave for a house, job, and 250,000$ (per family), the rest will probably leave if they will see that parts of their family is leaving.

P.S. I've just read the Mahmud A-zahar (hamas leader) said that they will keep attacking Israel even after it will leave Gaza. Too bad that the Israelis are too naive and blind to see what will happen thanks to the Bulldozer plan.

Yep i have read it too, I didnt expect anything else

I wonder how much time it will take the IDF to put this man at the place he belongs to, Hell!

http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/03072003/292203/azd_m.jpg

Moledet
06-12-2004, 10:59 AM
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.
But they are next to the third holiest site in Islam. And it is illegal by Islamic law for them to flee. So...
Flee? No, they will only move, like many others did and do. I don't know exactly how many Palestinians left thanks to Moledet, but from what I see when I visit the office quite a lot are interested.

I have read a few months ago in the Newspaper that about 150,000 Palasitians left to Jordan since the beginning of the Intifada by their own will.
33% said that they will leave for a house, job, and 250,000$ (per family), the rest will probably leave if they will see that parts of their family is leaving.

P.S. I've just read the Mahmud A-zahar (hamas leader) said that they will keep attacking Israel even after it will leave Gaza. Too bad that the Israelis are too naive and blind to see what will happen thanks to the Bulldozer plan.

Yep i have read it too, I didnt expect anything else

I wonder how much time it will take the IDF to put this man at the place he belongs to, Hell!

http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/03072003/292203/azd_m.jpg
I wonder how long it will take to Arik to understand that the pull out is a disaster. It took politicians 7 years to understand that Oslo was a disaster, how long do you think that it will take to politicians to understand that road map to Treblinca, Geneva (Gneva) plan and the pull out (transfer by force to Jews), are all mistakes?
Europe had a refugees problem in the 20h century, a number of transfer got it peace. Even though it's a disaster to make one generation refugees it's better then death for hundred generations.

alexbmn
06-13-2004, 02:08 AM
does an article by Gideon Levy even need a response? He hates Israel.

citizen-k
06-13-2004, 03:11 AM
Perhaps, it would be better if the UNRWA were building some of these instead.

http://www.63rdinfdiv.com/photo-dragonsteethensheimarea.jpg

rofl

I have a better idea - lets build a wall between us! ;)

ariweiner
06-14-2004, 03:03 AM
now find me place in Kuran where Jerusalem mentioned once .

Glorified be He[God, Allah] Who took His servant for a Journey by Night from Al-Masjid Al-Haram to Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa(aka Temple Mount), the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him some of Our Signs. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer - Quran 17:1

Flee? No, they will only move, like many others did and do. I don't know exactly how many Palestinians left thanks to Moledet, but from what I see when I visit the office quite a lot are interested.
It is prohibited, by Islamic Sacred Law, for them to move. The land was donated as an endowment to the worship of God and is currently viewed as protected land which cannot legally be sold or transferred. This is why there is the Islamic Waqf[endowment] in charge of Masjid Al-Aqsa and the surrounding area.

I have read a few months ago in the Newspaper that about 150,000 Palasitians left to Jordan since the beginning of the Intifada by their own will.
Perhaps they have. I don't know. I cannot judge or analyse them since I do not know their circumstances or their motives if they indeed left.
=====

does an article by Gideon Levy even need a response? He hates Israel.
Critiquing your country is showing more love for your country than those who blindly accept whatever the government does.
=====

I have a better idea - lets build a wall between us!
Good idea!!! But please don't let this wall go several kilometres deep into Palestinian land with the intention of annexing thousands of dunums of land.

W(M)D
06-14-2004, 05:46 AM
Well Naturi Karta are also Jewish.
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.

Do Neturei Karta even know what work is? They spend most of their time in Kollel.

Moledet - Is the party's main policy 'transfer' from the 1980's? I thought all of that went out with mallet haircuts in the early 1990s.

Mr. Nielsen
06-14-2004, 05:51 AM
I have a better idea - lets build a wall between us! ;)

A long the green line. No Problem.


Moledet - Is the party's main policy 'transfer' from the 1980's? I thought all of that went out with mallet haircuts in the early 1990s.

Interesting web site they have. Makes Jürg Haider's party look like the boy scouts.

W(M)D
06-14-2004, 05:59 AM
Makes Jürg Haider's party look like the boy scouts.

Dont you mean makes Jurg Haider's party look like the Hitlerjugend, but that would be impossible, the Austrians were only second class Nazis.

Moledet
06-14-2004, 07:13 AM
Well Naturi Karta are also Jewish.
If they don't want to live there they can come to Moledet's office in east Jerusalem and Moledet will arrange them work, appartment and transportation to Jordan.

Do Neturei Karta even know what work is? They spend most of their time in Kollel.

Moledet - Is the party's main policy 'transfer' from the 1980's? I thought all of that went out with mallet haircuts in the early 1990s.
It's Ghandi's RIP party. He already did one transfer by will in 1950 and thanks to him we don't have another 50,000 refugees. He also donated as much (if not more) then Rabin donated to this country (to Israeli arabs and tot he Jews), he is not respected enough.

P.S. Arie, we asked for the word "Jerusalem" (in the bible the word reapeats 1000 times) in the Quran and not for a description of a place.

Javehn
06-14-2004, 07:33 AM
Have a good read , Arieweiner .

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enZone=Diplomacy&enDisplay=view&enPage=ArticlePage&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article^l3717

Moledet
06-14-2004, 07:52 AM
Yep, the Quran say that we were punished and we got kicked out of the holy land but when we shall return it will stay our country for ever.

W(M)D
06-14-2004, 07:53 AM
This professor Khaleel Mohammed must be tired of life for his opinions :)

ariweiner
06-14-2004, 02:17 PM
P.S. Arie, we asked for the word "Jerusalem" (in the bible the word reapeats 1000 times) in the Quran and not for a description of a place.
It is pretty clear from the verse that I quoted that the land around the Haram Al-Sharif is blessed and consequently sacred land. Tell me, what is your overall point? Are you trying to claim that Jerusalem is not important to Muslims and consequently we should just ignore everything going on there?

Have a good read , Arieweiner .
I read that and I'm like :roll: and then rofl . See below.

Yep, the Quran say that we were punished and we got kicked out of the holy land but when we shall return it will stay our country for ever.
Err, nope. The Quran states that the Banu Israel were chosen by God. Due to their direct disobedience to Moses and other prophets, rebellion and killings of the Prophets sent to them, they lost the status of being the chosen people. The "chosen people" are those who are carrying out God's message and implementing the commmands of God. They failed to do so. The status of the "chosen people", during the time of Christ fell to the Christians...they lost this status due to going astray from the true message of Jesus Christ. During the time of Muhammad upon whom be prayers and peace, the "chosen people" status was with the Muslims. It remains with the Muslims so long as the Muslims are attempting to carry out the commands of God.

Chapter of the Children of Israel - Quran (http://web.umr.edu/~msaumr/Quran/17.html)

chauncy republicans
06-14-2004, 02:38 PM
P.S. Arie, we asked for the word "Jerusalem" (in the bible the word reapeats 1000 times) in the Quran and not for a description of a place.
It is pretty clear from the verse that I quoted that the land around the Haram Al-Sharif is blessed and consequently sacred land. Tell me, what is your overall point? Are you trying to claim that Jerusalem is not important to Muslims and consequently we should just ignore everything going on there?

Have a good read , Arieweiner .
I read that and I'm like :roll: and then rofl . See below.

Yep, the Quran say that we were punished and we got kicked out of the holy land but when we shall return it will stay our country for ever.
Err, nope. The Quran states that the Banu Israel were chosen by God. Due to their direct disobedience to Moses and other prophets, rebellion and killings of the Prophets sent to them, they lost the status of being the chosen people. The "chosen people" are those who are carrying out God's message and implementing the commmands of God. They failed to do so. The status of the "chosen people", during the time of Christ fell to the Christians...they lost this status due to going astray from the true message of Jesus Christ. During the time of Muhammad upon whom be prayers and peace, the "chosen people" status was with the Muslims. It remains with the Muslims so long as the Muslims are attempting to carry out the commands of God.

Chapter of the Children of Israel - Quran (http://web.umr.edu/~msaumr/Quran/17.html)
I'm sorry man, Muslims in general are not all attempting to do the will of God, just like some Christians and Jews attempt to do the will of God, the majority doesnt. (If the majority is actually thinkd they're trying they have misinterpreted scripture) To say Muslims as a whole try do the will of God, is like when George W Bush says he is doing Gods bidding...