The need for hidden identities among Special Forces

[n4292936]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces, and that Aus and British SF have there identities kep secret... but I would like to start a thread on why this is so, and whether or not it is an equally important standard for the forces of various countries. That is, do Rangers need to keep their identities as secret as British SAS, and if so why. Why are identities protected. Ill post my answer to the question once I have few replies.

[Hellman109]

For one, so that they can do covert operations.

Another reason is that capturing a SF member from anywhere is held in high regard, and no SF is EVER treated well, not knowing who they are means they can claim to be regulars (and therfore get better treatment and such)

Another reason is that if they are captured, the enemy have nothing to play them off with (IE. "We know your daughter goes to Middleschool in Blahsville, it would be a shame if we hurt her........................")

[n4292936]

right, so so far we have 1. the value of SF soldiers as prisoners (propoganda, torture, intel etc) and 2. protection of identity and therefore family or contacts of SF soldiers - which is a concern that could probably apply to normal soldiers as well. No doubt the first has been a longstanding concern ever since Hitlers standing order to kill SF soldiers if captured.... anyothers? Do you think these concerns apply to Rangers for example?

[Argyll]

Is there a different ID system out there to determine whether the individual is indeed an SOF,or a regular US/UK/Aus......whatever country?
I'm not sure there is,if all the Military ID were the same,then how could you possibly know they were from an SOF unit?

On Operations,"Most"SOF wear no form of distinction either,however I have seen SF on the ground in Baghdad with the SF Tab and emblem,whereas UK SF don't ever wear any features to ID them as SF.

Things that will ID an SOF is their kit,their weapons and vehicles,and that makes them stick out like sore thumbs,especially the US guys.The UK SF I've seen are normally in civvies,but carry some kit in a similar fashion.

Why the need..........it's called PERSEC,if an Operator is known publically,such as what happened with the SBS guys, ,then it has compromised their ability to work Covertly,especially on Survaillance Ops

[W(M)D]

Hey Argyll, how are the stags working out in the sandbox? Enjoy!

[Deuterium]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces, and that Aus and British SF have there identities kep secret... but I would like to start a thread on why this is so, and whether or not it is an equally important standard for the forces of various countries. That is, do Rangers need to keep their identities as secret as British SAS, and if so why. Why are identities protected. Ill post my answer to the question once I have few replies.

You are sadly uninformed my friend. You sound like all my classmates did in selection.... " You know you'll never get on a team with that tatoo."

CLUELESS!!!!!

[ibstolidude]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces - Whaaa??

Are trying to say that American SF, Rangers and SEALs do not have to show their faces on their STATE issued driver's licenses?
While you are at it, do you think this applies to other SOF's or Counter Intel - Human Intel?

Where did you get this piece of wonderful information?

[Deuterium]

Oh and BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... I'll have to post this one in the company. We'll get a good laugh.

[ibstolidude]

Oh and BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA... I'll have to post this one in the company. We'll get a good laugh.

just scream him into a kill zone why don't you!

no keep going, a little further, step to your right; NO your other right dumbass! Okay perfect!


Man I was hoping he was going to give a good answer

[Roger Rabbit]

but I would like to start a thread on why this is so, and whether or not it is an equally important standard for the forces of various countries.

From what i know all serving British Military personnel are advised to not publically show that they are a soldier. For instance on a normal day walking down the highstreet in uniform isn't sensible. I've been told that you shouldn't drive around in uniform either(in this case it was concerning TA personnel coming from home to the TA Centre). Reason being that in the past the IRA and other terrorist organistaions have and possibly still would use this as a means to target you for an attack. Adding to this i think must policeman choose to get changed at the station so they're not walking home in uniform. Just sensible precautions. Hope i've been clear.

Wasn't there a case of British soldiers returning from Germany in cars which had military number plates on were being blown up by the IRA because the IRA could easily identify them as soldiers?

[n4292936]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces - Whaaa??

Are trying to say that American SF, Rangers and SEALs do not have to show their faces on their STATE issued driver's licenses?

What I was saying is that I know for a fact, because I have seen it, that Rangers, and therefore presumably other US SF, can have a portion of their driver lisence photo covered with a black mark which covers the eyes. Obviously the names of SF operatives such as Delta and DevGru are not released publicly for a reason, just as they are not for the SAS in both Aus and Britain. The post is about the justification for this policy and is neither clueless or misguided in its origins. What I am working towards is a working justification for why identities are protected and then to whom that protection can justifiably be applied. For example, if Aus SAS identities must be protected, then by the common justification for identity protection, so too must Aus SF Commandos and their TAG team.

[Deuterium]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces - Whaaa??

Are trying to say that American SF, Rangers and SEALs do not have to show their faces on their STATE issued driver's licenses?

What I was saying is that I know for a fact, because I have seen it, that Rangers, and therefore presumably other US SF, can have a portion of their driver lisence photo covered with a black mark which covers the eyes. Obviously the names of SF operatives such as Delta and DevGru are not released publicly for a reason, just as they are not for the SAS in both Aus and Britain. The post is about the justification for this policy and is neither clueless or misguided in its origins. What I am working towards is a working justification for why identities are protected and then to whom that protection can justifiably be applied. For example, if Aus SAS identities must be protected, then by the common justification for identity protection, so too must Aus SF Commandos and their TAG team.

This person is completely full of sh*t. This is no factual part of the above statements.

[Seraphim]

What I was saying is that I know for a fact, because I have seen it, that Rangers, and therefore presumably other US SF, can have a portion of their driver lisence photo covered with a black mark which covers the eyes. Obviously the names of SF operatives such as Delta and DevGru are not released publicly for a reason, just as they are not for the SAS in both Aus and Britain. The post is about the justification for this policy and is neither clueless or misguided in its origins. What I am working towards is a working justification for why identities are protected and then to whom that protection can justifiably be applied. For example, if Aus SAS identities must be protected, then by the common justification for identity protection, so too must Aus SF Commandos and their TAG team.

You pretty much answered your own question.

[scm77]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces, and that Aus and British SF have there identities kep secret...

Really?? :lol:

I heard that they are allowed to have their faces surgically removed so nobody can tell who they are. :cantbeli:

[n4292936]

then state the misinformed bit. what about the previous post was factually innacurate? Unless I was looking at a fake drivers lisence, which I doubt, there was a black line across the eyes of the person holding the lisence. The reason given was that he had rights to such privacy protection because he was a Ranger.

[ibstolidude]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces - Whaaa??

Are trying to say that American SF, Rangers and SEALs do not have to show their faces on their STATE issued driver's licenses?

What I was saying is that I know for a fact, because I have seen it, that Rangers, and therefore presumably other US SF, can have a portion of their driver lisence photo covered with a black mark which covers the eyes. .
wouldn't that further identify your name as an "operative", however if my STATE (hint -hint) offered no indication of my military affiliation - WHICH THEY DO NOT, & if pulled over I did not show my military ID - then NO ONE would no I was in the military.
Assimilation makes for good security anywho, why try and stand out?

The US Army offers no seperate driver's license that offers state/civie privelage - and military driver's lic. does not have a photo - regardless of MOS.

[Seraphim]

then state the misinformed bit. what about the previous post was factually innacurate? Unless I was looking at a fake drivers lisence, which I doubt, there was a black line across the eyes of the person holding the lisence. The reason given was that he had rights to such privacy protection because he was a Ranger.

Its called photoshop buddy.

[n4292936]

does that apply in Gorgia? Specifically to personell from Ft. Benning?

[mocking_loudly_died]

then state the misinformed bit. what about the previous post was factually innacurate? Unless I was looking at a fake drivers lisence, which I doubt, there was a black line across the eyes of the person holding the lisence. The reason given was that he had rights to such privacy protection because he was a Ranger.

Clearly he was a power ranger.

[n4292936]

then state the misinformed bit. what about the previous post was factually innacurate? Unless I was looking at a fake drivers lisence, which I doubt, there was a black line across the eyes of the person holding the lisence. The reason given was that he had rights to such privacy protection because he was a Ranger.

Clearly he was a power ranger.
rofl ya he coulda been a power Ranger.
I know it wasnt photoshop cause this person couldnt use it to save his life, and as one who has made fake IDs it looked authentic to me. So do we have a confirmation that knowhere in the US is this allowed or sanctioned to happen on the grounds that one is SF? Its looking that way :(

[scm77]

If he showed someone (a police officer for example) his liscense and it had a black bar across his face, the cop would immediately know that he was a ranger or other SF operative, because the cop would know only they are allowed a covered face. But if it didn't have a covered face nobody would know anything about him.

[Argyll]

This is total Bollox,you guys know fine it's foking impossible to drive with Black Duct tape over your eyes!!!

And then when you rip it off when you get into camp,you look like a foking freak with nae eyebrows!!

[NcDeuce]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces

Eh???

rofl

[mrfloppy]

This is total Bollox,you guys know fine it's foking impossible to drive with Black Duct tape over your eyes!!!

And then when you rip it off when you get into camp,you look like a foking freak with nae eyebrows!!

Excellent!!! rofl rofl rofl

[Nizark]

I know American SF, Ranger and SEALs are entitled to have their drivers licenses doctored so that you cannot see their faces - Whaaa??

Are trying to say that American SF, Rangers and SEALs do not have to show their faces on their STATE issued driver's licenses?
While you are at it, do you think this applies to other SOF's or Counter Intel - Human Intel?

Where did you get this piece of wonderful information?

Yeah, and how can you get a doctored state issued license, and have your face unrecognizable? I mean, the pic is of YOUR FACE. And if a cop pulls you over asks for your license and its funny looking, they make consider it fake and hawl your ass in. And I doubt the 'i'm in Special Forces' line is gonna fly.

[duck]

But if you give them the "secret" handshake?

[Deuterium]

Thank you "n4292936" for making me dumber reading this thread. I can't believe I got suckered into responding so many times. I don't know you so I'll say this one time. No member of the US Armed services, Green Beret, Ranger, Delta, SEAL, PJ, CCT, or other organizations has issued State drivers licenses with black stripes across their eyes. Did someone show you one? If so it was a fake or joke. Step back a minute and see how stupid this would be if I had one. This would be just what I wouldn't want. So I get caught in a foreign country and my license has a black stripe. STUPID!!!! Join the SpecOps community and find out for yourself how we maintain our "quiet professional" status. I can assure you it's not how you describe it.

[Tane Angle]

So just to recap for me, because I'm a bit lost here, is the question "Do SOF personnel have special ID privileges?" If so, having a special ID would defeat the purpose-it would ID one as being special.

If the question is "Should the US act more like the Brits when it comes to PERSEC?" then I would say we could learn a thing or two from the Brits. I'm not a big fan of traveling in uniform, I'm not a big fan of using military IDs unless absolutely necessary. I think SOF photographs should not be released so readily (sorry guys ;) ), especially considering the fact that increasing SOF are being used in intelligence roles.

On the other hand, it is rarely good for a people to view their protectors as vague shadows. :|

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[pinkeye]

on a different track, what about isp information? if i know mr. x is sf, i could potentially track down his personal information through his isp, right?

[Tane Angle]

Sort of. Some people route their computers through others' computers. Sometimes the "others" know, sometimes they don't. Honestly, I've never been as good at electronics, computers, and all the SIGINT stuff as I'd like to be. Today, the roadblocks thrown in the way are usually good enough to prevent an effective trace. Perhaps more importantly, if one starts digging around or attempting to hack a computer, the hacker might become the hackee. That's CI for you. Basically, I wouldn't recommend trying it bud. ;) Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[ibstolidude]

So just to recap for me, because I'm a bit lost here, is the question "Do SOF personnel have special ID privileges?" If so, having a special ID would defeat the purpose-it would ID one as being special.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts... - unfortunately Tane - I think the problem was in the lack of question and the statements of FACT that they, US SF etc - get black bars on their faces on their Drivers ID's.

I agree a better and more provacative (needless to say realistic) question would be about the personal security people choose to excersize and should better security measures be implimented in the US?

[Khabbi]

I heard all Army Special Forces had green berets on them in their Driving L photos , so cops would know they were green berets and let them slide

[pinkeye]

Sort of. Some people route their computers through others' computers. Sometimes the "others" know, sometimes they don't. Honestly, I've never been as good at electronics, computers, and all the SIGINT stuff as I'd like to be. Today, the roadblocks thrown in the way are usually good enough to prevent an effective trace. Perhaps more importantly, if one starts digging around or attempting to hack a computer, the hacker might become the hackee. That's CI for you. Basically, I wouldn't recommend trying it bud. ;) Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

is this common practice? are sf personnel given special instructions covering internet use from their homes?

[Trigger]

is this common practice? are sf personnel given special instructions covering internet use from their homes?
Yes. They are limited to 4 hours of **** and are required to use some form of monkey as an avatar in order to better blend in with non-SF forum members...

What?