Final Presidential Debate - Discussion thread

[Invisigoth]

Thread to discuss the final presidential debate between John McCain and Barack Obama.

Presidential Debate
Hofstra University
9:00 pm (EDT)

Can be watched on CNN.com (CNN.com/live)

[hank]

Its on like Donkey Kong and my streaming vid sucks.

hank

[hank]

"Murikans are hurting"

This is going to be fun. He's literally changing into W right before our very eyes.

hank

[Bia]

Its on like Donkey Kong and my streaming vid sucks.

hankI'll watch highlights later and read y'alls commentary.
There's a few here that I trust and enjoy what they say.

:P

I'm currently trying to beat this chess proggy on level 7...I think it's impossible and a ruse.

[Invisigoth]

CNN.com stream is working fine for me, otherwise CSPAN and MSNBC have a livestream aswell if I remember correctly.

Anyone have the recent article on McCain's debate coaching? The guy just refuses to learn. Even after his 500.000 town halls and what not he still makes the same beginner mistakes and fails to adapt to the format. Old war horse.

Btw. whoever dressed these two tonight, why these ties?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe Burger? Really? Oh my god John McCain. Watch Obama shut him down on Joe the plumber in a second.

[hank]

I liked the fact that Obam said he wanted to del with energy policy to stop us from "giving our wealth away."

Damned right.

My CNN feed is good now.

hank

[hank]

Obama is just better than McCain at this. He just is. McCain get rattled when he's off script. Obama doesn't.

hank

[hank]

Joe the plumber?

Who writes this shyt?

hank

[Invisigoth]

Obama is just better than McCain at this. He just is. McCain get rattled when he's off script. Obama doesn't.

hank

Its called debate practice and sticking to your themes. You can see Obama had a good debate coach and listened to the advice. Classic skills: enumerate answers, divide them up in simple understandable segments, address the camera when necessary etc.

I recently read an article on McCain's debate training and apparently he proved rather hard to coach. Whenever he gets rattled he reverts to what has gotten him so far, "my friends etc.".


--------------------------------------------------


Joe the plumber?

Who writes this shyt?

hnak

If you find a guy on the campaign trail who is called Joe and is a plumber you gotta exploit that gold mine.

[hank]

That was great. Obama turned the tax debate into "let's let Exxon pay more." Now McCain is saying let's cut taxes. That's what I'm talking about. McCain off script is not good.

hank

[D-gin]

Joe the plumber?

Who writes this shyt?

hank

I damn near choked on my gummy bears with that one.



Someone call 2Shades.

[hank]

Now McCain want nuclear power. He doesn't want to make Exxon pay more tax but now he wants nuclear power.

wat?

hank

[Invisigoth]

Nooooooooo, did John McCain just channel Bill Clinton??

The across the board spending freeze is just retarded and I wonder why he keeps repeating it.

[hank]

NOw he doesn't want to subsidize ethanol?

Who coaches this guy? He's lost in tall weeds.

hank

[hank]

I know how to use a hatchet right now.

hank

[Invisigoth]

NOw he doesn't want to subsidize ethanol?

Who coaches this guy? He's lost in tall weeds.

hank

Karl Rove's disciples, and I bet they're sitting behind the scenes and wondering why the whole attack scheme is not working.

Ahhh McCain finally went for the "I'm not Bush line", he better hope Obama doesn't fire back with "then you shouldn't have acted like Bush".


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh snap, McCain comes out foaming and Obama is just sitting back, refuting and making him look like an idiot while patting him on the back. I do feel sorry for McCain, I think he might pull out a hatchet from under the table and chop Obama to pieces.

[brainplay]

Other commentators plz? Come on you guys can do better than this prattle.

[Bia]

Now McCain want nuclear power. He doesn't want to make Exxon pay more tax but now he wants nuclear power.

wat?

hank

And... he said repubs want more wind and solar... while adding nuclear & drilling in same sentence.

/slaps self on forehead.

[D-gin]

Keep looking at those notes, old timer.

[hank]

Other commentators plz? Come on you guys can do better than this prattle.

McCain just tried to distance himself from his party? That's good stuff.

I AM A MAVERICK.

Say it enough times and it might be true!

hank

[Thor]

hank, are you high on something? You have posted 10 posts with just gibberish.


You need to emotionally detach yourself from your lord and saviour (Obama).

[hank]

Other commentators plz? Come on you guys can do better than this prattle.

Pipe up genius. You can defend your boy can't you. He's doing so well.

hank

[hank]

hank, are you high on something? You have posted 10 posts with just gibberish.

You need to emotionally detach yourself from your lord and saviour (Obama).

You got it.

If he's lord and savior is that part of his muslim heritage also?

hank

[hank]

That was hurtful?

John Lewis.

please. That's just silly.

hank

[Invisigoth]

O M G, did Bob Schieffer just compare the negative ads of McCain with Obama's? "erratic behavior" vs "terrorist"?

Ohhh, John McCain is telling Obama to refute Lewis' remarks? Scumbag. Scumbag. Scumbag. If you are hurt John McCain then stand up and be a man and reclaim some of that supposed honor you have.

[hank]

Lewis supported Clinton for a long time.

hank

[SBL]

It has been a bit of a circle jerk in here.

I'll say McCain was doing pretty well right up until this latest question.
McCain doesn't do well at buttering people up.

[Thor]

You got it.

If he's lord and savior is that part of his muslim heritage also?

hank
I don't think he's that, more like the opposite. So you have to answer that question for yourself.


But since you're willing to vote for someone despite him being a much worse crook than Nixon, then I assume you do.


Stop with the gibberish, please.

[hank]

This whole negative ad thing is bad for both of them. Its silly. Let's debate ad strategies?

Why is that relevant?

ahnk

[Ritual]

Biased poster is biased. :bash:

[hank]

I don't think he's that, more like the opposite. So you have to answer that question for yourself.


But since you're willing to vote for someone despite him being a much worse crook than Nixon, then I assume you do.

What? I don't follow.

Obama is a worse crook than Nixon? That's good.

hank

[brainplay]

Pipe up genius. You can defend your boy can't you. He's doing so well.

hank

McCain is Bush, McCain is Bush, McCain is Bush....oh and your ads are mean.

So far that sums it up.

[hank]

Good job brainplay. nice summary.

hank

[Thor]

What? I don't follow.

Obama is a worse crook than Nixon? That's good.

hank
We know that you don't follow. But just stop with your gibberish, please.

[hank]

You got it Thor and brainplay. Why don't ya'll enlighten us about what's going on?

Again with Lewis. Do all black people speak together now? How is Obama responsible for Lewis?

hank

[INAT]

"Murikans are hurting"

This is going to be fun. He's literally changing into W right before our very eyes.

hank


Changing? Always was.They both serve the same masters.

[Ritual]

Yeah, we're about maxed on your Gibberish champ. :fork:

[brainplay]

Aww, we went from energy policy to bitching about mudslinging ads. Obama: my ads crap doesn't stink but yours does?

Get back on policy guys...

Obama trying to tie wackos to McCain, McCain trying to tie Obama to wackos.

[hank]

Ritual are you talking to me? Just trying to understand what you are talking about.

hank

[Chulo]

100% of McCain's ads are attacks.. and obama can prove it

[Invisigoth]

Oh snap, Obama is calling him out on it and seems serious, concerned and presidential. Whereas McCain appears petty, laughing nervously and erratic. And Obama turns right around and refocuses the debate on policy.

Oh John McCain, pulling the patriotism card? Let me guess, its ok cause you were a POW right? Did you repudiate the Virginia GOP chairman's remark? No you didn't. John McCain = Liar.

Reflects on this whole campaign.

[hank]

Aww, we went from energy policy to bitching about mudslinging ads. Obama: my ads crap doesn't stink but yours does?

Get back on policy guys...

That's schieffer's fault. Whoever agreed to let that be a question made a mistake. Why are we debating ad strategy? That's not a good subject for a debate.

hank

[hank]

100% of McCain's ads are attacks.. and obama can prove it

Were you watching? McCain said the very same thing right before that.

This is a stupid line of questions all the way around. They both have campaigned negatively.

McCain wants Obama to be responsible for Lewis and now he wants Obama to be responsible for T-shirts at a rally. That's silly.

hank

[Thor]

You got it Thor and brainplay. Why don't ya'll enlighten us about what's going on?
Deprogramming is not easy. Tom Cruise would be easier.

[hank]

Now the fun begins with ACORN.

This will be good.

Give McCain credit. He is trying to take the gloves off.

hank

[brainplay]

Nope, no policy turn by Obama so far. We need to reach across the isles is nothing new to the McCains which has pissed off Republicans.

Obama on the defensive about Acorn and Ayers. Doing a decent job on it.

[shocker1]

hank you are posting crap, you are my e-friend and fellow Georgian but sometimes on this election you just don't make much sense. Ethanol has cost Americans billions of dollars in increased prices and lower MPG. McCain has plenty for you to criticize. Use that noggin I know you have and do it right, instead of the knee jerk responses to McCain supporters. Government has no business spreading the wealth around as Obama wants to do. That kind of policy will drive jobs over seas, just like the 90's. Neither of these guys will be able to cut taxes in the amounts they say.

The key is a decrease in the size of government and you and I both know we will not get that with either candidate. So in the end your support of Obama is geared to defy the past 8 years, McCain is not Bush. You shoiuld have supported Ron Paul like I told you to. So what do you think Obama will do to make your life better? What will McCain do? I say we as Americans can do it better without overbearing government engineering our lives. The current situation is a fruit of that and it started long ago. It has no party because it infects both sides.

[Invisigoth]

Ohhhh Obama, refute and bitchslap. Judo-chop! God this is even more fun to watch than I expected.

Yeah, let's discuss running mates. How could this get any better?

[brainplay]

Deprogramming is not easy. Tom Cruise would be easier.

Calling the kettle black. p-)

Registered independent. I wanted Perot on a cabinet for his economic policy.


*oh crap gloves are coming off on Ayers now.

[Bia]

I admire and respect Mr McCain as an American and all that but shame on him for claiming "Acorn could possibly destroy the fabric of Democracy"

[Ritual]

Why do I get the feeling that no matter who wins.

We all lose.

[Zoomie]

Joe the plumber?

Who writes this shyt?

hank

It's an actual person hank. He confronted Obama about taxes, and Obama told him that he didn't want to punish him, but wanted to redistribute the wealth of the nation.

[brainplay]

Oh crap! Binden/Palin fight!

Almost forgot its Obama/Palin election.

[T3ngu]

This thread is of relevance to my interests.

Wank.

[SBL]

I admire and respect Mr McCain as an American and all that but shame on him for claiming "Acorn could possibly destroy the fabric of Democracy"
Yeah, he should go easy on dramatics.
Sometimes I physically cringe.

[Thor]

I admire and respect Mr McCain as an American and all that but shame on him for claiming "Acorn could possibly destroy the fabric of Democracy"
Do you know about the scope of what they have done?

Calanen posted a link.

[shocker1]

Obama sounds like a President, the man has his game on. Beyond that nothing new. McCain is depressing.

[Invisigoth]

Do you know about the scope of what they have done?

Calanen posted a link.

yeah Thor enlight us, what is the scope? Is Mr. Mickey Mouse going to turn up at the election centre and vote on November 4th? Its cute how the Rs are trying to blame their impending loss on something else than their failed policies. Remind me, why were those U.S. attorneys fired in the attorney firing scandal? you should explore that.

[Kilgor]

Mc Cains getting desperate.

He can't push the raising taxes and terrorist line any harder.

[Bia]

It's an actual person hank. He confronted Obama about taxes, and Obama told him that he didn't want to punish him, but wanted to redistribute the wealth of the nation.Yep...
those making above 250k which the average plumber is a worker and not company owner and therefore isnt making anywhere near 250k... McCain deceptively keeps insinuating the common worker will get a tax increase and evil dems will give their money to the lowest class of American citizens.

Shame :P

I think McCain really blew a lot of votes early on he said with an aire of rediculousness... "Redistribute the wealth" with an as-if attitude... while average American hears daily of CEO after CEO doing dispicable things with the $ in the current crisis.

[INAT]

That's schieffer's fault. Whoever agreed to let that be a question made a mistake. Why are we debating ad strategy? That's not a good subject for a debate.

hank

Aren’t debates supposed to be about the candidate’s policies?

everything else is 100% Grade A political bullsh!t.



Also Binden is Satan himself. He just looks evil with those slits for eyes and pointy eyebrows. My friends, where I come he is seen as pure evil.

[Thor]

yeah Thor enlight us, what is the scope? Is Mr. Mickey Mouse going to turn up at the election centre and vote on November 4th?
More gibberish...

[brainplay]

Obama sounds like a President, the man has his game on. Beyond that nothing new. McCain is depressing.

Sadly agree. He could be telling his favorite cookie recipe and people would swoon at his voice and speaking skills.

Ouch Obama was nice about Palin but McCain is raking Binden over the coals. Sad panda. Obama sat up really fast about that one.

[Thor]

Sadly agree. He could be telling his favorite cookie recipe and people would swoon at his voice and speaking skills.
Yeah, we have seen that before once, haven't we.

[brainplay]

Mortaging our children's future. Ouchie touche' mon frer.

McCain is on the attack. Obama started to but stopped. If McCain keeps it up he'll end up looking bad unless Obama goes back on the offensive.

Oh crap, he just blamed assasinations against lower classes in Latin states.

[hank]

It's an actual person hank. He confronted Obama about taxes, and Obama told him that he didn't want to punish him, but wanted to redistribute the wealth of the nation.

Of course you don't call him Joe the plumber in the debate. Its campy.

hank

[shocker1]

Obama is right on about Korean and Japanese cars flooding our market and ours are prohibited with massive red tape from entering their markets.

[hank]

hank you are posting crap, you are my e-friend and fellow Georgian but sometimes on this election you just don't make much sense. Ethanol has cost Americans billions of dollars in increased prices and lower MPG. McCain has plenty for you to criticize. Use that noggin I know you have and do it right, instead of the knee jerk responses to McCain supporters. Government has no business spreading the wealth around as Obama wants to do. That kind of policy will drive jobs over seas, just like the 90's. Neither of these guys will be able to cut taxes in the amounts they say.

The key is a decrease in the size of government and you and I both know we will not get that with either candidate. So in the end your support of Obama is geared to defy the past 8 years, McCain is not Bush. You shoiuld have supported Ron Paul like I told you to. So what do you think Obama will do to make your life better? What will McCain do? I say we as Americans can do it better without overbearing government engineering our lives. The current situation is a fruit of that and it started long ago. It has no party because it infects both sides.

I could care less about the ethanol. It was the way he brought it up was weird. I'm not advocating ethanol in any way. My point was that McCain is not a good debater, not that his position on ethanol is bad.

hank

[Kilgor]

Obama is right on about Korean and Japanese cars flooding our market and ours are prohibited with massive red tape from entering their markets.

people dont want american cars because they are sh!t.

[Zoomie]

Obama is right on about Korean and Japanese cars flooding our market and ours are prohibited with massive red tape from entering their markets.
Your point being? Detroit needs to step up to the plate and quit whining and realize that over-reliance of the SUV was a bad idea.

[Invisigoth]

McCain really doesn't get it. You can't jump from agricultural policy, to drug trade, to hostage crisis and back to free-trade in one sentence.

They clearly told him to go on the attack and he is doing horribly.

[shocker1]

I could care less about the ethanol. It was the way he brought it up was weird. I'm not advocating ethanol in any way. My point was that McCain is not a good debater, not that his position on ethanol is bad.

hank
Well you should care, because it is a very damaging deal to us. I don't care how he brought it up, it is a problem. It makes no sense whatsoever. The BTU difference nullifies any savings in gasoline.

[BearInBunnySuit]

Obama is right on about Korean and Japanese cars flooding our market and ours are prohibited with massive red tape from entering their markets.

Frankly I don't know about Korean cars. Japanese cars, yes, they are all over the place but don't really see that many Korean-made brands. But I'm getting too technical.
It is sad what is happening to the American auto industry. The country that introduced Ford to the world is now on out a limb. Instead of blaming others, I think American car makers need to find a solution on a fundamental level.
Our family, we have a Japanese car and a German car. The Japanese one we got because it is reliable and the German one we got for the brand-prestige. We leased an American car for a short time and did not feel any particular affinity for it.

[Chulo]

Of course you don't call him Joe the plumber in the debate. Its campy.

hank
Since the media given Joe that label, its being used, if he used his real name who would know what he was talking about

[hank]

He is not very good at it but at least he is trying. I thought he did poorly last time bc he let Obama dictate thie discussion. He's trying to dictate tonight but he just doesn't have the horses to do it.

hank

[Thor]

Obama is right on about Korean and Japanese cars flooding our market and ours are prohibited with massive red tape from entering their markets.
Is that really true?

To be frank, American domestic brands haven't been doing well abroad with the exception of Willy's Jeep and Ford Model T.

[hank]

Since the media given Joe that label, its being used, if he used his real name who would know what he was talking about

I understand that. But when the whole world thinks these guys are elitist in the first place and then you say Joe Plumber you reinforce that. He should have distanced himself from that. That's my only point.

hank

[matthew.manhorn]

people dont want american cars because they are sh!t.

Japanese cars in American are crap as well, they're like export versions of Soviet weapons.

American cars are okay.

[brainplay]

McCain: You want to tie me to Bush.
Obama: yes
McCain: I tie you to Herbert Hoover.
Obama: @$(*%& I'll dodge that one since I don't know what it means
American people: we need to google that...

[SBL]

Frankly I don't know about Korean cars. Japanese cars, yes, they are all over the place but don't really see that many Korean-made brands. But I'm getting too technical.
It is sad what is happening to the American auto industry. The country that introduced Ford to the world is now on out a limb. Instead of blaming others, I think American car makers need to find a solution on a fundamental level.
Yeah, Korean cars aren't so hot, but it's still a lot cheaper for your average Korean to buy a Kia or Samsung than it is to buy an exported American ride of simliar-to-slightly-better quality.

[Invisigoth]

He is not very good at it but at least he is trying. I thought he did poorly last time bc he let Obama dictate thie discussion. He's trying to dictate tonight but he just doesn't have the horses to do it.

hank

The real problem he faces is that the more he attacks the more he allows Obama to respond calmly and look presidential. At the same time, the only way he can turn things around is if he forces Obama into a major gaffe and he can only do that by attacking.

Btw. did you notice just now on the health care question, Obama looks at Schieffer as he sets up his explanation, then turns to the camera and explains his plan to the American people. The guy knows what he is doing.

Watch McCain, he is completely lacking a narrative/theme to his explanation. Obesity clinics, health clubs? Why does he constantly dilute his message.

NO JOE THE PLUMBER IS BACK!

[hank]

Well you should care, because it is a very damaging deal to us. I don't care how he brought it up, it is a problem. It makes no sense whatsoever. The BTU difference nullifies any savings in gasoline.

McCain brought it up. That was the point. Were you listening at that point?

McCain said something about ethanol in response to Obama saying he wanted to stop sending our wealth out of the country paying for energy and McCain brought up ethanol. It was a disconnect. Bad debating.

hank

[SBL]

Japanese cars in American are crap as well, they're like export versions of Soviet weapons.

American cars are okay.
I'd take a Toyota or Honda over a Chevy or Pontiac any day.

[Chulo]

faxts checkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!


bama: "every dollar that i've proposed, i've proposed an additional cut, so that it matches."

the facts: The bipartisan committee for a responsible federal budget estimates that his programs would add $281 billion to the deficit at the end of his first term. The analysis includes obama's proposals for saving money.
___
mccain: "we have to stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us very much."

the facts: This is a reference to u.s. Spending on oil imports. Mccain has repeatedly made this claim. But the figure is highly inflated and misleading. According to government agencies that track energy imports, the united states spent $246 billion in 2007 for all imported crude oil, a majority of it coming from friendly nations including neighboring canada and mexico. An additional $82 billion was spent on imported refined petroleum products such as gasoline, diesel and fuel oil. A majority of the refined products come from refineries in such friendly countries as the netherlands, canada, the united kingdom, trinidad-tobago and the virgin islands.
___
obama: "one hundred percent, john, of your ads — 100 percent of them — have been negative."

the facts: The statement is true when it comes to mccain's current commercial spots. But by saying mccain's ads "have been" 100 percent negative, obama ventures into misleading territory. Mccain is currently running all negative ads, according to a study by the university of wisconsin-madison. But he has run a number of positive ads during the campaign.
___
mccain: "now, we have allocated $750 billion. Let's take 300 of that billion and go in and buy those home loan mortgages and negotiate with those people in their homes, 11 million homes or more, so that they can afford to pay the mortgage, stay in their home."

the facts: Ordering the government to buy up bad mortgages to cut homeowners' monthly payments might sound good, but experts are skeptical. They say the plan mccain is promoting is unlikely to solve the housing crisis that's pushing the economy toward recession. One big problem: The vast majority of the toxic home loans that are clogging financial markets and freezing up credit have been repackaged into complex investments that the government would be hard-pressed to unravel and buy. And the government could end up paying far more than they would ever be worth. That could primarily help banks and lenders with taxpayer money.
___
obama: "i want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of working americans, 95 percent."

the facts: Obama constantly says this. But the independent tax policy center says his plan cuts taxes for 81.3 percent of all households in 2009.

[shocker1]

Your point being? Detroit needs to step up to the plate and quit whining and realize that over-reliance of the SUV was a bad idea.
Well, don't buy them. Detroit has came out with many ideas and models. All of which were rejected by the consumer. We drive the market, they will not build what we will not buy. Nissan Titan, Honda Ridgeline ect... we drive the product. It is our fault, mine as well. I drive a big ass truck.

[hank]

Again with Joe the Plumber. Joe has a name. Use it.

hank

[T3ngu]

people dont want american cars because they are sh!t.
I would have put it a little softer, but seems you have made my point for me.

[Nano]

Wonder if any of them are going to step on the land mine that is the mortgage/financial crisis and lay some of responsibility on the other. Obama and McCain were in the pockets of banking lobbyists.

[Chulo]

Again with Joe the Plumber. Joe has a name. Use it.

hank
Obama used it too - its a title, it identifies with all the small business people out there

[hank]

Obama used it too - its a title, it identifies with all the small business people out there

I'm blaming them both. That is not a good idea for either of them. One of them should know Joe's name and use it. Missed opoprtunity.

hank

[shocker1]

Is that really true?

To be frank, American domestic brands haven't been doing well abroad with the exception of Willy's Jeep and Ford Model T.
Who knows, it sounds good. Buy a Honda, best car out there for the money. Made in the USA too

[Createdeemcee]

They're Talking to Cali Joe.

[hank]

Jesus Christ. Did McCain jsut say big gubmint? They are all going to create big gubmint.

Like McCain will do one thing to shrink gubmint.

hank

[hank]

They're Talking to Cali Joe.

That's Joe Woodchipper. Very different.

hank

[shocker1]

I don't want my employer based plan, I want what the Senators have.

[Invisigoth]

"Yeah, I don't want government to do the Job, I want you to do the Job Joe!"

That's gonna be a great soundbite. :cantbeli:

[brainplay]

Obama: Fine? Fine? Uh... no fines! Only for big bad corporations

Obama just went on the offensive with health care. He's sounding pretty good. Explanations without sounding condescending is nice.

*oops McCain is doing explanations now, did an ok job. Ouch, took a shot at the Democrat controlled house.

Obama-chamber of commerce reference. Nice one.

[hank]

McCain is blaming Congress for growing gubmint and said he would shrink it. That's what he said.

hank

[Createdeemcee]

I don't want my employer based plan, I want what the Senators have.


Me too, sounds good.

[shocker1]

LOL, I want the States to handle it, I am a Federalist.

[SBL]

LOL, I want the States to handle it, I am a Federalist.
Yeah I caught that too.

[hank]

"I'm a federalist." McCain says. He wants to use federal money to promote national health care. But he's a federalist. Bull****. There are no federalists left. Except me.

hank

[hank]

Strict construction? The talking points memo is in his lap right now. He read that from it I guarantee it.

hank

[Chulo]

Strict construction? The talking points memo is in his lap right now. He read that from it I guarantee it.

hank
so what if he did?

[shocker1]

We are doomed. Obama wins, I drop my insurance so that I can have what they have. Let's all do that

[hank]

There is no such thing as strict construction chulo. Its a pink elephant.

Roberts is not a strict construction. He brings a bias to his decisions. McCain just likes his bias. Stephens does also. McCain just doesn't like it.

strict construction is pejorative for "I like his decisions."

hank

[hank]

Trial lawyers. That memo is in his lap.

hank

[brainplay]

LOL, I want the States to handle it, I am a Federalist.

+1
Less federal. More state. More power for the citizens to burn a politician if they step out of line with what we want.

Roe vs Wade: McCain went a little off topic but stuck a pretty nasty needle.
Obama, staying on topic. Going for women Hillary voters and single moms.
Trial lawyer jab...ouchies.
McCain is going after Obama's voting record..or lack of. Just made him look like a voting coward for his own party line with the "voting present" reference.
Obama: hippocratic oath reference, nice comeback there. Fails as a law issue but good dodge and turn around.

[Chulo]

im saying,. so what if he is reading his notes

[hank]

im saying,. so what if he is reading his notes

They aren't his notes. He didn't write them. Hannity/Rush/Rove/whoever wrote them and he needs their followers to get elected so he reads from it.

MAVERICK

hank

[shocker1]

Abortion is an issue that will not change. The SCOTUS said so. Move along, my money pot is shrinking.

[CG51]

HAI I take it yous guis are watchin the debates

[SBL]

They aren't his notes. He didn't write them. Hannity/Rush/Rove/whoever wrote them and he needs their followers to get elected so he reads from it.

MAVERICK

hank
Does Obama write his notes?

[hank]

Even Roberts has acknolwedged that. He would not overturn it if given the chance I feel pretty certain. Scalia and Thomas would but not Alito and Roberts.

Nobody is pro abortion. That's right.

hank

[brainplay]

They aren't his notes. He didn't write them. Hannity/Rush/Rove/whoever wrote them and he needs their followers to get elected so he reads from it.

MAVERICK

hank

Yar, and Obama has a secret teleprompter off to his side. p-)

[shocker1]

HAI I take it yous guis are watchin the debates
You have the best avatar of this election.

[Chulo]

They aren't his notes. He didn't write them. Hannity/Rush/Rove/whoever wrote them and he needs their followers to get elected so he reads from it.

MAVERICK

hank

so what you are saying is what he is saying is something he does not personally believe in just MAYBE someone gave him some notes.

And that Obama doesnt have the same?

[Invisigoth]

I think McCain has just pissed off a lot of female voters, not because he is anti-choice but the way in which he dismissed a pregnant woman's health to force his talking point.

Not good John.

[hank]

Does Obama write his notes?

Probably not. But the far-right buzzwords make me laugh becasue they don't mean anything.

Strict construction - what does that mean?

Trial lawyer - what does that mean?

Pro abortion - yeah we all want to kill babies. All of them.

McCain doesn't know yet he spouts them. That is funny if you ask me. But I'm sure you don't agree.

But if your point is that Obama has his little phrases as well then yeah he does. They just don't resonate with me or play on what I think are irrational fears.

hank

[shocker1]

Damn, stop it with the damn "tax credits' they mean jack ****.

[Chulo]

But if your point is that Obama has his little phrases as well then yeah he does. They just don't resonate with me or play on what I think are irrational fears.

hank

thats cause you are a commie ;)

[darz]

http://www.santhoffplumbingco.com/images/plumber_add.jpg

[brainplay]

Oh noes Obama wasn't paying attention. Question mentioned how we spend more than other countries on education but we aren't doing as well as them. Obama wants more money? What? Have we learned nothing from the New York debacle?

Reference to lazy parents. Thats not going to endear him to some of his base.

Oh dang. McCain just said there were bad teachers. Thats not going to endear him to his base. Teach for America reference and bonuses for teachers is actually good though.

[Invisigoth]

Damn, stop it with the damn "tax credits' they mean jack ****.

But you get 5000$!!!!! You can buy yourself a nice HDTV and a PS3 in exchange for your health care :)

[hank]

so what you are saying is what he is saying is something he does not personally believe in just MAYBE someone gave him some notes.

And that Obama doesnt have the same?

I am saying that John McCain does not know what strict construction means because it has no meaning whatsoever. Its pejorative for someone who will overturn Roe v. Wade is given the chance.

I am saying that trial means nothing. I know rich Republican defense lawyers who try 10 cases a year. Are they trial lawyers? That term is a pejorative for me - plaintiff's lawyer. Call it what you want but that is prototypical far right fear mongering.

Pro abortion? Please. Nobody wants abortion.

Its all designed to get "Joe sixpack" to play along without really telling them what it means. And guys like Rove come up with it.

What are the buzzwords Obama uses?

hank

[Invisigoth]

What are the buzzwords Obama uses?

hank

Early-childhood education. You commie.

p-)

[SBL]

Probably not. But the far-right buzzwords make me laugh becasue they don't mean anything.

Strict construction - what does that mean?

Trial lawyer - what does that mean?

Pro abortion - yeah we all want to kill babies. All of them.

McCain doesn't know yet he spouts them. That is funny if you ask me. But I'm sure you don't agree.

But if your point is that Obama has his little phrases as well then yeah he does. They just don't resonate with me or play on what I think are irrational fears.

hank
So it's likely neither wrote his notes.

[shocker1]

They never mention you local automotive technician. The can suck my monkey balls.

Charter schools create uneven education. Across the board standards are the answer, not "competition" among schools with charter schools, most people can't stand in line for days to get their kids in these limited schools. Bad idea and it has ruined our education system.

[BearInBunnySuit]

Oh noes Obama wasn't paying attention. Question mentioned how we spend more than other countries on education but we aren't doing as well as them. Obama wants more money? What? Have we learned nothing from the New York debacle?

Reference to lazy parents. Thats not going to endear him to some of his base.

Oh dang. McCain just said there were bad teachers. Thats not going to endear him to his base. Teach for America reference and bonuses for teachers is actually good though.

The way I see it, it has nothing to do with the system. It's about cultural values and competition. A lot of the countries that outperform the U.S. academically are East Asian countries where high emphasis is placed on education. It is also a fact that in many of those countries, a good education and the right school are the only tickets to upward mobility. Not so much in the U.S. and I always found that endearing. Besides, the U.S. always produce enough smart people to keep it ahead of the pack...just look at Obama and McCain. :)

[brainplay]

Another attempt to tie McCain to Bush...yawn.

Omg, we'll give out lots of money for college loans and grants...but lets not talk about how we'll pay for it. Did Obama just say that?

McCain: Spending more money is not the answer. Hmm, that might not go over well with some people.
School vouchers! Yay! Making some decent points about reforms. Vouchers are great but they aren't favored by some people. Subject is almost as bad as abortion in some counties and states.

Ohhh, last comment jab about vouchers. Very harsh but well planted.

[hank]

So it's likely neither wrote his notes.

If you say so.

hank

[hank]

My friends

Murika

Murika

new direction

reform

maverick

hank

[SBL]

If you say so.

hank
I do .

[shocker1]

My friends

Murika

Murika

new direction

reform

maverick

hank
Change

Great Depression

Bush

Bush

Bush

Bush

[Invisigoth]

Let's throw in some focus group predictions, I say its gonna go 57:43 to Obama

Btw. props to Bob Schiefer, he didn't suck like Brokaw.

[Chulo]

My friends

Murika

Murika

new direction

reform

maverick

hank
Change

bla

McCain = Bush

Bla

change

bla

Spend more money

bla

change

[shocker1]

Substance, neither won

Image, Obama by a landslide

[hank]

Let's see if you are right.

last 8 years

great depression

failed policies

fundamental change

brighter says still ahead

invest

tax cuts

healthcare

energy economy

lift wages

increase middle class

bi-partisan

hank

[hank]

Substance, neither won

Image Obama by a landslide

agreed.

McCain just isn't good at this.

This won't effect the polls at all.

hank

[California Joe]

Not a bad debate, except for some of the weird detours.

"Your ads are negative, they make fun of my health care plan. It's hurtful. John Lewis is a ****, he called me George Wallace cause people at my rallies want to lynch the n*gger". Please.

Sarah Palin should be the VP because she's a reformer and knows about special needs kids. Great.

You know how you deal with special needs kids? You stay the f*ck home and take care of them.

[SBL]

McCain got worked. Obama is just too darn presentable.

[Invisigoth]

"Your ads are negative, they make fun of my health care plan. It's hurtful. John Lewis is a ****, he called me George Wallace cause people at my rallies want to lynch the n*gger". Please.


Best line in this thread. rofl

[brainplay]

McCain can't win a debate against Obama in the polls unless Obama really trips up. Debates are 50/50 substance and image. Actually after the Biden/Palin debates I'll put more on image. Obama just has image in droves. McCain isn't going to win in that respect.

[shocker1]

McCain got worked. Obama is just too darn presentable.
This is why the Lady who we all love to hate is not sitting there. At this point I wish she was, I would vote for her.

[hank]

I agree. I guess I just don't fundamentally understand how anyting Lewis says is relevant in the debate. My dad called Obama a n*gger on the phone the other night. Do I need to send Obama an apology? I just don't get it. Shyt Lewis didn't even support Obama at first. Totally unrelated to Obama's campaign.

McCain was a lot tougher tonight. Good for him. But I'm not sure he was better.

Obama is just a skilled debater. He just is. And he is a lot better in this medium than McCain.

hank

[Flagg]

McCain: "Tastes Great!"

Obama: "Less Filling!"

No matter who wins, we're still stuck drinking lousy p!ss

[hank]

It is funny to me that ya'll want to hang up Obama as only talking about change. In the wrap up he talked about the policies he wanted to implement.

McCain didn't. He just said "we need to spend less" and "I'm a maverick."

I just don't think its accurate to say that all Obama wants is change. Yes he wants change but he will at least say what and how he wants to change. McCain says I'm a maverick.

I must be an assh*le liberal.

hank

[budgie]

Bugger, screwed up the time zones. Which sites have a rerun?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Bye Bye Mcain.

[shocker1]

Bye Bye Mcain.
Hello commie

[hank]

Bye Bye Mcain.

3 times a loser.

Sad for him. He's not a bad guy. He's just not that good at this part of it.

hank

[CG51]

Mojito....

[Invisigoth]

Bye Bye Mcain.

Bye Bye to the past.

Oh goodness, comments from CNN viewers:
"McCain got the right plan. Spending must be cut once and for all." rofl

[shocker1]

3 times a loser.

Sad for him. He's not a bad guy. He's just not that good at this part of it.

hank
Another victim of Bush. Damn guy is screwing up everything.

[Hilbert]

Unimpressing, boring debate.

Obama is definately better at speaking than McCain, that much is obvious. Both of them had a bit of trouble sticking to substance (as our betters always seem to do); although I will give them credit they did stick to the questions better than they did in the 2nd Debate.

McCain's never been the best on speaking but it seemed like he was just on drugs or something tonight; and, whoever the heck wrote his speech needs to be replaced immediately.

I love listening to both of them babble on and on about change and how they are just the kind of change we need. The only change I see is the name of our president changing (and possibly the party, depending on who wins). "Failed policies of the last eight years ruining this country... blah blah blah" More like failed policies of the last seventy eight years; both of the two major parties, Democrats and Republicans, are to blame for the current situation.

-Hilde

P.S. Before any party zealots start accusing me of McCain Bashing and Obama Messiah Worship or Vise Versa, let my thoughts on the two guys out: they both suck and neither of them will be getting my vote.

[hank]

Another victim of Bush. Damn guy is screwing up everything.

wat?

You guys are funny. Ya'll can tie McCain to Bush but I can't and Obama can't.

If it looks like a W, smells like a W, acts like a W, and says Murika - its a W.

hank

[shocker1]

wat?

You guys are funny. Ya'll can tie McCain to Bush but I can't and Obama can't.

If it looks like a W, smells like a W, acts like a W, and says Murika - its a W.

hank
McCain being a Republican has been damaged by Bush. Is that simple enough?

[hank]

McCain being a Republican has been damaged by Bush. Is that simple enough?

I totally agree. But why do ya'll give me a hard time when I say it? Or Obama? Its so obvious.

hank

[Nano]

Damn these are going to be some interesting times ahead for our country. I see a number of probable things happening in the years ahead. 1. We become a socio-fascist country and most go along and everyone else lives in the delusion of voting out "politicians". 2. We become socio-fascist most go along out of fear/safety guarantee of the new system from the economic hardships. Just to give two the rest of the outcomes are incarnations of civil strife and the above in one form or another. We of course remain a Constitutional-Republic in name and procedure only.

[CG51]

heh heh Hillary speaks lol

[Invisigoth]

McCain being a Republican has been damaged by Bush. Is that simple enough?

I think this has damaged McCain ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U5KZzgaB2k

[hank]

socio-fascist?

Explain.

hank

[shocker1]

I totally agree. But why do ya'll give me a hard time when I say it? Or Obama? Its so obvious.

hank
Because you guys try to "tie" him to Bush as if he will do the same ole ****. We know McCain will not govern like Bush. He would do a much better job.

LOL watch PBS for call in comments.

[Bia]

He's not a bad guy.

hank

Agreed.

It's Palin that pushed me off the fence.

[hank]

McCain will be like W in two important areas. Iraq policy - same. Talk about shrinking gubmint while growing it - same.

That hurts him as much as anything. It makes all the maverick talk silly.

hank

[Hilbert]

Because you guys try to "tie" him to Bush as if he will do the same ole ****. We know McCain will not govern like Bush. He would do a much better job.

LOL watch PBS for call in comments.

I'm certain he's not going to be exactly like Bush, he's already proven himself willing to against the guy and actively disagrees in various areas; however, as far as being better, I'm not so sure on that part I'm convinced both he and Obama will be just as bad.

[shocker1]

I think this has damaged McCain ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U5KZzgaB2k
Oh look a youtube video where a Republican supported his party's candidate. My God how horrible. This is how morons choose Presidents, by watching 30 sec ads and home made youtube virals. Morons never read bills or look at the whole picture. If your opinion is based on this kind of info, you fit into the fore mentioned group.

[SBL]

McCain will be like W in two important areas. Iraq policy - same.

I disagree. Between the economy, and the drop in violence, I don't think Iraq shows up as much more than a blip on most people's radar these days.

[shocker1]

I disagree. Between the economy and the drop in violence, I don't think Iraq shows up as much more than a blip on most people's radar these days.
Agreed, people don't give a **** about Iraq. No offense to those who served but that is the way it is.

[hank]

I disagree. Between the economy and the drop in violence, I don't think Iraq shows up as much more than a blip on most people's radar these days.

Anecdotally I disagree. Everybody I talk to (and they are mostly voting McCain) think its important that McCain will "win" Iraq. Maybe that's a southern thing. Nationally you may be right.

My wife is on the fence and Iraq policy is one of her concerns. That is a concrete example. She'll prolly vote McCain.

hank

[SBL]

Anecdotally I disagree. Everybody I talk to (and they are mostly voting McCain) think its important that McCain will "win" Iraq. Maybe that's a southern thing. Nationally you may be right.

My wife is on the fence and Iraq policy is one of her concerns. That is a concrete example. She'll prolly vote McCain.

hank
In that sense it's no different than someone voting for Obama because, say, he's going to bring "change". It's just a convenient go-to issue.
But yeah, like Shocker said, your average warm body doesn't really give a rip about Iraq these days. Other things, a little closer to home, are making them feel uneasy.

[hank]

In that sense it's no different than someone voting for Obama because, say, he's going to bring "change". It's just a convenient go-to issue.
But yeah, like Shocker said, your average warm body doesn't really give a rip about Iraq these days

I honestly don't know more than 3 people voting for Obama but none of them are voting for Obama bc of change.

My Mom is a lifelong Democrat (yellow dog) and she's voting for McCain becasue of what she says the war on terror. Frankly I don't think she can bring herself to vote for someone named Obama but that's a different story.

I can think of 5 people right this minute that think Iraq is important issue.

Are you basing your statement on your experience or national polling? I'm going to look into this. I think Iraq as an issue is still getting polled regularly.

hank

[He219]

Doesn't really matter who gets elected; bankers pull the strings and we go deeper in debt ..

[Kilgor]

Because you guys try to "tie" him to Bush as if he will do the same ole ****. We know McCain will not govern like Bush. He would do a much better job.

LOL watch PBS for call in comments.

This is why the current economic turmoil plays to the Dems. Everytime W is on tv, it raises people's blood pressure and they are reminded how bad the republican brand has f*cked America up in the last 8 years.

[shocker1]

Doesn't really matter who gets elected; bankers pull the strings and we go deeper in debt ..
Truth, those who control the money, control the country. A founding father said that. Can't remember who, think it was Jefferson.

[Invisigoth]

Oh look a youtube video where a Republican supported his party's candidate. My God how horrible. This is how morons choose Presidents, by watching 30 sec ads and home made youtube virals. Morons never read bills or look at the whole picture. If your opinion is based on this kind of info, you fit into the fore mentioned group.

No, that 30 second clip is a summary of fact.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html


*----------------------------*

All the focus groups of the major networks, including Fox, are giving it to Obama by large margins, as expected.

[shocker1]

No, that 30 second clip is a summary of fact.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html
Nevr said it wasn't. Him supporting Bush is not a big deal. Would he support Kerry. Gore? Get over it. IT is all about part, Obama always votes party. Which is why I supported Ron Paul. I am not defending McCain, just saying people are ignorant and uninformed. A better place to reasearch is http://www.govtrack.us/congress/legislation.xpd.

[He219]

Truth, those who control the money, control the country. A founding father said that. Can't remember who, think it was Jefferson.

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
... The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating. -Thomas Jefferson

History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -James Madison


Like I previously wrote, it does'nt really matter who's in office.
Our polititians are beholden to the bankers just to run for office ..

[Invisigoth]

Nevr said it wasn't. Him supporting Bush is not a big deal. Would he support Kerry. Gore? Get over it. IT is all about part, Obama always votes party. Which is why I supported Ron Paul. I am not defending McCain, just saying people are ignorant and uninformed. A better place to reasearch is http://www.govtrack.us/congress/legislation.xpd.

Him supporting Bush is not a big deal? I would think the American electorate disagrees, at least according to the polls so far. I think one of McCain's biggest mistakes was to not aggressively distance himself from Bush earlier. He is trying to do it now but I think its way too late to have a significant impact on people's perceptions of his voting record.

[EZFEED]

I think it was a mediocre to poor performance from McCain, I almost want to dedicate next weeks paycheck now to stockpiling as many firearm parts, recievers, etc as I can. Next order will be for 30 more AKM recievers probably.

With Obama in office HR1022 is breathing down our necks and in his words he is dedicated to more gun control:-(

[SBL]

I honestly don't know more than 3 people voting for Obama but none of them are voting for Obama bc of change.

My Mom is a lifelong Democrat (yellow dog) and she's voting for McCain becasue of what she says the war on terror. Frankly I don't think she can bring herself to vote for someone named Obama but that's a different story.

I can think of 5 people right this minute that think Iraq is important issue.

Are you basing your statement on your experience or national polling? I'm going to look into this. I think Iraq as an issue is still getting polled regularly.

hank

The people that are voting Iraq as an issue I tend to think are predisposed to vote for McCain anyway. Like I said, it's an easy go-to topic: "See? we're winning".
You'll recall there was a fairly dependable majority, according to polls, that thought Iraq was destined to be a disaster. I reckon if you asked a lot of those people today what concerned this most going into this election they'd say the economy.

[shocker1]

Him supporting Bush is not a big deal? I would think the American electorate disagrees, at least according to the polls so far.
In reality it isn't according to DC politics. Principles do not exist in either party that is my point. The electorate is primarily reactionary, which usually excludes logic. Which is why we have the piss poor government we have and now have so much control we have no chance of standing up to the all powerful Federal Government. The electorate may think it is a big deal but in the end what the hell would he do? He opposed Bush on Iraq policy, it got him slammed, Generals that agreed with McCain were canned.

He should stand on principles, very few do. We should demand it, we don't we like image.

[Winger]

Agreed, people don't give a **** about Iraq. No offense to those who served but that is the way it is.

If things were really going south there you could bet that he would be making a major issue out of it.

[tyovan]

I always love Cali Joe's insightful sense of humour!

I think Obama won based on attitude and appearance. We've had eight years of a President that can be fired up and make populist appeals. Obama is calm, collected, and coolly explains the issues. He also doesn't lower himself to personal attacks - the Democratic ticket is trying to run a dignified campaign and let the Republicans ruin themselves with 'politics as usual'.

McCain is an angry, old, out-of-touch, rich white dude..
Obama appears, and acts, Presidential.

[shocker1]

If things were really going south there you could bet that he would be making a major issue out of it.
There not, which is why no one gives a ****. People are cynical about it and want it all to go away.

[WARPIG]

I'm beginning to feel like the assholes on the freeway that stare at the car wreck.

Obama's hype is so transparent.. but it doesn't matter. McCain just looks like a lame duck. He's not slick enough. I get his whole "all of the above" concept for energy. Diverse energy policy should be the drive of the next 10 years. But, he can't seem to paint that picture.

Kerry beat up Bush in the last debates. It didn't mean squat. Maybe there is something to that. As long as McCain can keep it close.. it may turn out fine.


We need to go to a 3 party system.

[WARPIG]

I always love Cali Joe's insightful sense of humour!

I think Obama won based on attitude and appearance. We've had eight years of a President that can be fired up and make populist appeals. Obama is calm, collected, and coolly explains the issues. He also doesn't lower himself to personal attacks - the Democratic ticket is trying to run a dignified campaign and let the Republicans ruin themselves with 'politics as usual'.

McCain is an angry, old, out-of-touch, rich white dude..
Obama appears, and acts, Presidential.

He appears slick.

His campaign is just as involved in attack campaigning. It's all pretty equal. I'm really inspired we have people making voting decisions based on appearance. I'm really tired of ugly, boring presidents. We need hip, trendy leadership that look good on stage and tell us what we want to hear. I can think of no better quality in a president than popularity.

[hank]

Its not looking very "close" to me right now.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

hank

[Invisigoth]

I'm beginning to feel like the assholes on the freeway that stare at the car wreck.

Obama's hype is so transparent.. but it doesn't matter. McCain just looks like a lame duck. He's not slick enough. I get his whole "all of the above" concept for energy. Diverse energy policy should be the drive of the next 10 years. But, he can't seem to paint that picture.

Kerry beat up Bush in the last debates. It didn't mean squat. Maybe there is something to that. As long as McCain can keep it close.. it may turn out fine.


We need to go to a 3 party system.

Don't think it's been close for a few weeks, CBS had McCain trailing 14 points nationally yesterday, that's huge.

I'm not a fan of premature celebration and to tap into the clichee, "it's not over until it's over", but I think McCain has pulled out all the stops and its still not working.

The smart choice would be to take the money the RNCC etc. are spending on McCain ads and try to save some of the senators that are poised to lose their (re-)election bid.




[quote=WARPIG;3621632]I'm really inspired we have people making voting decisions based on appearance. I'm really tired of ugly, boring presidents. We need hip, trendy leadership that look good on stage and tell us what we want to hear. I can think of no better quality in a president than popularity.

Let me guess, that why you voted Bush? ;)

[EZFEED]

I dunno how cool and calm you think Obama was but I think we'll be a little closer towards heading down that red road of socialism with all of the stuff he wants to federalize. How lazy America has become.

[ronnieraygun]

I dunno how cool and calm you think Obama was but I think we'll be a little closer towards heading down that red road of socialism with all of the stuff he wants to federalize. How lazy America has become.

You're too late. You are already the proud owner of every major investment bank and a few more.

-B-b-but regulation and gubmint interference is evil!

No matter who wins they will have their work cut out for them, so I don't really care what cheap pat appearance either one of them made tonight.

[hank]

I don't think its over by any stretch. But its not close at the moment. It could certainly get close though but something will have to happen. Like a Willie Horton or something like that.

hank

[shocker1]

You're too late. You are already the proud owner of every major investment bank and a few more.

-B-b-but regulation and gubmint interference is evil!

No matter who wins they will have their work cut out for them, so I don't really care what cheap pat appearance either one of them made tonight.
Not to mention the power the Sec of Treasury has now. More power than anyone in the land.

[hank]

Yeah I lold when McCain talked about Obama growing gubmint. Am I the only one paying attention while W has exponentially grown the gubmint after running on an anti-abortion, strict construction, Muriak strong platform? Not a third time.

hank

[ronnieraygun]

I don't think its over by any stretch. But its not close at the moment. It could certainly get close though but something will have to happen. Like a Willie Horton or something like that.

hank

It's pretty close, IMHO. The poll is misleading, many votes will get challenged out of existence on both sides and the red state/blue state math is still pretty much the same as far as the electoral college is concerned. I'm willing to bet many people who claim they will vote for Obama will stay home on election day, too.

[EZFEED]

You're too late. You are already the proud owner of every major investment bank and a few more.

-B-b-but regulation and gubmint interference is evil!

No matter who wins they will have their work cut out for them, so I don't really care what cheap pat appearance either one of them made tonight.

True in that respect so I guess the rest of my vote leans on 2nd ammendment views. McCain never was my first choice but I see him as a lesser of two evils.

[shocker1]

I read that damn bill, the big bills of this admin border on Corporate Socialism. Oh wait, the" F" word better describes the direction but I refrain from saying it to avoid knee jerk reactions from some.

[ronnieraygun]

True in that respect so I guess the rest of my vote leans on 2nd ammendment views. McCain never was my first choice but I see him as a lesser of two evils.

Yeah, many do. As a prospective Obama voter, I'm still pretty peeved about his 2nd amendment views (read: he does not have any and his urban Chicago sensibilities are likely to be very anti-gun). I'm not seeing any "Sportsmen for Obama" bumper stickers this election. p-)

[RECON DOC]

I watched, I listned, I shuddered. No matter which one gets in we're up the creek and that's no ****. Maybe we'll be saved by an alien invasion, the kind from another planet.:|

[loganinkosovo]

Drudge has it.....

McCain 73%

Obama 25%

Neither 1%

[hank]

Drudge has it.....

McCain 73%

Obama 25%

Neither 1%

I just looked at that. I am shocked that 25% of people who go to that site voted for Obama. Must be like a /b/ raid or something.

hank

[ronnieraygun]

I read that damn bill, the big bills of this admin border on Corporate Socialism. Oh wait, the" F" word better describes the direction but I refrain from saying it to avoid knee jerk reactions from some.

Federalism? Feudalism? Forgiveness? Feingold? Fu...Oh, I get it. There, I said it for you. We're all walking a little bow-legged stateside these days, so I guess it makes sense.

[ronnieraygun]

I just looked at that. I am shocked that 25% of people who go to that site voted for Obama. Must be like a /b/ raid or something.

hank

hehe..."Disclaimer: Poll is unscientific and has a margin of error approximating 25%." -Kinda reminds me of seeing USA Today have 4% of poor African Americans in Louisiana voting for David Duke back in the day.

IIRC the Drudge site always had McCain running away with every debate, of course. I'm pretty sure if the Messiah showed up for a debate Drudge would still have McCain as the runaway winner, anyway.

[hank]

Ronnie, you need to clean out your head gear and get with Thor. The muslim messiah, obamessiah, was in the debate with McCain tonight. Duh.

hank

[EZFEED]

Yeah, many do. As a prospective Obama voter, I'm still pretty peeved about his 2nd amendment views (read: he does not have any and his urban Chicago sensibilities are likely to be very anti-gun). I'm not seeing any "Sportsmen for Obama" bumper stickers this election. p-)

Well he was pretty rabid on our disarment in the past and I doubt much has changed. I suspect any elected official who would stand for such a thing.

[ronnieraygun]

Ronnie, you need to clean out your head gear and get with Thor. The muslim messiah, obamessiah, was in the debate with McCain tonight. Duh.

hank

hehe - I don't know if the Qu'ran discusses walking on water - I missed it tonight. Instead, I'm pretty sure McCain was committing purdah with that godforsaken Sharpie he was wielding around.

Maybe Thor caught the town hall meeting where the poorly-coiffed housewife of generous girth called Obama an Arab right in front of McCain and he grabbed the mic right out of her hand. Or maybe he caught it when everyone shouted "terrorist" after Obama's name was mentioned during another "town hall meeting" and McCain shook his head and turned away. I think if Thor hung around with some of Obama's biggest detractors around here he'd hop the next flight back to Sweden out of sheer terror.

[hank]

Its his heritage, ronnie. Heritage.

hank

[loganinkosovo]

I just looked at that. I am shocked that 25% of people who go to that site voted for Obama. Must be like a /b/ raid or something.

hank


Since people who go to drudge are educated enough to read it is surprising that 25% thought Obomba won....


What does Communist News Network for the uneducated say?

:)

[LineDoggie]

I'm pretty sure if the Messiah showed up for a debate Drudge would still have McCain as the runaway winner, anyway.
Obambi isnt the Messiah? huh, go figure

[brainplay]

I think Obama won based on attitude and appearance. We've had eight years of a President that can be fired up and make populist appeals. Obama is calm, collected, and coolly explains the issues. He also doesn't lower himself to personal attacks - the Democratic ticket is trying to run a dignified campaign and let the Republicans ruin themselves with 'politics as usual'.

McCain is an angry, old, out-of-touch, rich white dude..
Obama appears, and acts, Presidential.

Why yes, appearance means everything when you run the nation doesn't it? I mean come on, you can sink a country just fine as long as you look good doing it. Right...right?

[Telmar]

Since people who go to drudge are educated enough to read it is surprising that 25% thought Obomba won....


What does Communist News Network for the uneducated say?

:)

I find it funny you mention it as those Drudge reesults you keep posting look just like the result of an election in former commie-land.

[nagant_m44]

Since people who go to drudge are educated enough to read it is surprising that 25% thought Obomba won....


What does Communist News Network for the uneducated say?

:)

right, its not like people from conservative forums spam polls on the internet.:roll:

[Snoshi]

Again.. "Polls" prove absolutely nothing.. Ron Paul was winning every debate and poll on the Internet and look where it got him..

[tyovan]

Why yes, appearance means everything when you run the nation doesn't it? I mean come on, you can sink a country just fine as long as you look good doing it. Right...right?

Debates are about image. Most people don't care about, or don't understand, the issues.
I'm a Government & Political Affairs minor in university. I like Obama's stance on the issues. I'm not saying he's fit to govern because he cant act Presidential. I think he's better to govern because of his grasp of the issues - and I hope his Presidential appearance won him some votes from stupid "Joe Six-packs" who don't take the time to investigate the issues..

[WARPIG]

Don't think it's been close for a few weeks, CBS had McCain trailing 14 points nationally yesterday, that's huge.

I'm not a fan of premature celebration and to tap into the clichee, "it's not over until it's over", but I think McCain has pulled out all the stops and its still not working.

The smart choice would be to take the money the RNCC etc. are spending on McCain ads and try to save some of the senators that are poised to lose their (re-)election bid.



[quote]

Let me guess, that why you voted Bush? ;)

CBS Polls?

[Invisigoth]

CBS Polls?

Yeah I don't recall who they commission for their polls. Rassmussen got it 50:45 a, Pew 49:42, BG 51:43 and R2000 52:41. That's LV of course.

I'll look where the 14 points poll was and get back to you, saw it on one of the sites in the last days but don't remember where ;)

*UPDATE* Found it: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/oct08b-politics.pdf


Again.. "Polls" prove absolutely nothing.. Ron Paul was winning every debate and poll on the Internet and look where it got him..

yeah, unfortunately "the Internetz" is not a scientific polling pool rofl

[Hollis]

I don't see any charisma from Senator Obama or that he is a master debater. The second debate, I about feel asleep. The third one was not much better. I think Senator Obama had a better presentation than Senator McCain. Maybe I listen too much to CNN and Fox news on the election, but both sound like the same old bland recordings.


Maybe both are two worried about loosing, so they will not commit to a real debate. Mostly they are monologues with some exchange. Last night the exchanges where better than the other two, but still ho-hum.

Senator McCain who is being out spent tremendously, could have called Senator Obama out on the idea to run a non-mudslinging campaign. It might have neutralize all the extra money that the Senator Obama campaign has.


The highlights of this campaign were at the National Conventions (Senator Obam's and Governor Palin's speeches). After that, pretty much lack luster on both sides.

[Hollis]

yeah, unfortunately "the Internetz" is not a scientific polling pool rofl


Have you done any polling, took classes on it? Your statement does not reflect that.

[Invisigoth]

Have you done any polling, took classes on it? Your statement does not reflect that.

Yes I have, and Internet polling is a joke, you can't even call it polling tbh. How would you even control your sample? (see Ron Paul)

[XShipRider]

Maybe both are two worried about loosing, so they will not commit to a real debate.

This is why few take the time to actually watch them, they're not debates by definition.

But your comment above is right on. Concession night they will be all chummy. The loser will gracefully espouse accolades ad nauseam upon the winner. Mention will be made of some sort of necessary "healing" or other rot. The summary to all this drivel will be some crappola about how we all need to "come together" to fix America.

Here's an idea for future political debates:
1) Sound proof booths where neither can hear or see the other participants
2) Identical questions are asked to each participant
3) The moderator insists they answer the question before moving to the next question - meaning: no dodging the question with rhetorical psycho-babble or political doublespeak
4) The moderator cannot ask questions with the words "your opponent" or other channeled questions designed to incite an offensive or defensive response

Then we'd see an interesting debate. Neither would have any idea what the other's response was, thus there could be no "he said, she said" BS.