Colin Powell backs Barack Obama [Archive]

bugkill

10-19-2008, 12:40 PM

I find it funny how all of sudden we got republicans talking s**t about Powell because he endorsed Obama. Some of them are hinting that he did it because Obama is winning in the polls, or to fix his standing after the UN debacle.

Listen, Powell made a great point about Palin and where the republican party has moved. McCain made a mistake listening to people to make decisions that would only fire up his base, and what got lost was McCain, and the reason to vote for him. All we have heard is a bunch of things about Obama, and how hot looking Palin is, but the man that got lost in the shuffle was McCain.

My feeling is that it is a tight race and that it is very hard to guage what many people will do come election night. The white vote is going to decide this election, and it is hard to say how they will come out.

Macs.

10-19-2008, 12:42 PM

Nizark

10-19-2008, 12:47 PM

Amazing how quickly you repubs turn on the General like that. A guy who has been a soldier his whole life, made it to the highest military post in the US military then was told to sell that WMD bull$hit at the UN.

Yeah, i'm a dem, but if Colin endorsed Montgomery Burns...er, I mean mcCain, I wouldn't change my opinion of him.

Any whoo...get ready for the soon-to-be supermajority Palinites!

mas-36

10-19-2008, 12:49 PM

I find it funny how all of sudden we got republicans talking s**t about Powell because he endorsed Obama.

Yeah, I wondered myself if the wing-nut fringes of the Right would go so far, and you're right: they are. Take this golden example from the ultra-right wing R. Lee Ermy forum:

Re: Colin Powell
http://www.rleeermey.org/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/reply_mini.gif (http://www.rleeermey.org/posting.php?mode=reply&t=18429) http://www.rleeermey.org/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://www.rleeermey.org/posting.php?mode=quote&p=190127) http://www.rleeermey.org/templates/subSilver/images/icon_down.gif (http://www.rleeermey.org/viewtopic.php?t=18429#bottom)http://www.rleeermey.org/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://www.rleeermey.org/viewtopic.php?p=190127#190127)Posted: Today at 12:37 pm He was a crappy general anyway.
_________________
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NCO Staff

http://www.rleeermey.org/viewtopic.php?t=18429

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 12:49 PM

I've never read any credible piece of news which said the UN inspectors had solid, irrefutable proof that Iraq had WMDs at the time of the invasion.

Despite Powell's mistake, I still respect him.

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 12:54 PM

Yeah, I wondered myself if the wing-nut fringes of the Right would go so far, and you're right: they are. Take this golden example from the ultra-right wing R. Lee Ermy forum:

Like most former Marines, I'm a great admirer of The Gunny, even if we disagree about politics. If I were to meet him, I suppose we'd talk about Chesty Puller, weapons, and Tarawa, instead of the elections.

BugHunt

10-19-2008, 01:03 PM

Atlantic Friend

10-19-2008, 01:32 PM

It was the UN inspectors that had the so called proof of the wmd's. He was plaing his part as general/sec dfense to make the call. He had 100% faith in the inspectors as did all of america. THey gave him invaluable info, and he ran with it like a great general he was. It was his boss that *&^%#! up contenuosly, after that overwelming fail.

You maywant to check that, CMC. The information about the mobile labs and other secret WMD installations were, IIRC, CIA-provided and ran AGAINST the UN's AIEA position. Powell went to the UN and defended an untenable (in the long run) position, with data that at best could be qualified as faulty, if not entirely fabricated.

That was also when Britain's PM delivered speeches about Iraq being able to launch WMD-carrying missile at a 45-minute notice, all based on a report that had been written by a teenager who had used pre-1991 data and a little "artistic creativity". And we also had that British WMD expert who wrote a controversial report and then oddly chose to commit suicide...

Honestly 2003 would be a dark but hilarious comedy if the life of so many hadn't been turned upside down and cut short as a result.

SOG

10-19-2008, 02:04 PM

I respected Powell because he said "**** you to the higher ups, I don't want any more of your coolaid even if it hurts us." So in other words he understood the bull**** of politics and didn't want to be a part of it. Then:

"I think he [Barack Obama] would be a transformational president," Mr Powell told NBC's Meet The Press.
An Obama victory would should "not just electrify our country, it would electrify the world", he said.

He jumps right back in believing a fast talking all promising sham dime a dozen candidate yet again. Politically speaking I have no respect for Powell's choices. The man could fall into a trance at a Elton John Concert.

I can't comment on him being a general.

seraosha

10-19-2008, 02:28 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 03:07 PM

Atlantic Friend

10-19-2008, 03:09 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

A black thing ? You think Colin Powell just sees a black bro who need supportin' ?

It's a pretty bold assumption.

BugHunt

10-19-2008, 03:10 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

I suppose if you cant knock being a airborne ranger, serving in a warzone or his 40+ years of service --- you could just say hes black :roll:

Oh yeah i heard he sukked as a general as becauz in a highly competitive enviroment like da army they alway just vote in and promote nice faces.

And he can had so many civilian offices purely on his ability to perform fellatio *wink wink* (that means oral ***!).

whitenoise

10-19-2008, 03:10 PM

Let's face it Obama is the right man for the job right now. I personally believe that Powell is and has always been a straight shooter. He went through the crucible of Viet Nam vowing never to do it like that again. He is Chairman of the Joint Chiefs during Desert storm and it's basically the polar opposite of everything that was bad about Viet Nam except for the part where people have to die. It's a short, decisive, ass-whupping of a war. He ascends to Secretary of State in the W. Bush administration and is basically sidelined because George W. Bush has run a dysfunctional presidency where the Vice President and Sec Def ran roughshod over the inter-agency process. And you get the first two years of the Iraq war that are a disaster. On the way out the door (Bush fired him) he stays in the Oval office not leaving until he lays his cards on the table for the reluctant Bush and tells his the nature of his own screwed up administration. What more can he do in the face of a president who won't believe his own eyes?

So now he's a bad General. Give me a break. Some of you guy should be ashamed. I know the Republican base doesn't like it. But face facts your party needs to get nuked in this election so you can rebuild with out the nut cases. America has a lot of work to do getting out of the ditch. Come January 20 I hope we can all, at least temporarily, put partisanship aside for a bit while we do a serious course correction.

And as for the extreme right of the Republican party that has been so vocal in calling Obama a Muslim sleeper agent. The Base in Arabic = Al Quaeda. Every culture has it's irreconcilables don't be one of ours. This is America we shouldn't roll like that.

XShipRider

10-19-2008, 03:18 PM

Good for Colin Powell. I agree that both men would make decent Presidents, but that Obama's campaign seems more inclusionary to the American people as a whole and that Sarah Palin is not ready for the White House.

"Obama's campaign seems inclusionary..." to the insiders, the outsiders would definitely disagree with you. rofl

Which has-been graveyard of political ruin did he unearth Biden from? This guy hasn't been heard from since the first Bush was in office. Suddenly he comes from nowhere to be claimed potential heir to the throne? Okay.

Don't get me wrong. No one, save Alaskans, had ever heard of Palin either. She makes McCain look that much older in my opinion.

Skutatos

10-19-2008, 03:19 PM

I never really thought of him as a republican anyways, so Im not surprised. I still have much respect for his military career, but he should have stayed out of politics.

Andrew Chalmers

10-19-2008, 03:22 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

So every white person who votes for McCain or black person who votes for Obama = racist?

What about Asians or Pacific Islanders?

:roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs43RR7IiNU
Watch the interview before judging Powell as some "black thing"

albion

10-19-2008, 03:28 PM

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 03:36 PM

"Obama's campaign seems inclusionary..." to the insiders, the outsiders would definitely disagree with you.

You mean those that choose to exclude themselves because he's a "Muslim", an "Arab", a "terrorist", etc? :cantbeli:

BugHunt

10-19-2008, 03:37 PM

God that Colin Powell book I bought was heavy and hard work to read....I fair bust me nose as I slipped asleep trying to finish it. Colin is surely banking on the winner Osama giving him a job....boost Colin into the long grass I say. CP is boring and was promoted well above his station as heads cleaner.

Buy books with a higher picture content then.

I read it and it was a decent autobiography, didnt seem to be 80% fabrications unlike many others...perhaps he shouldve made up a few more explosions and car chases to help you out? Its not his fault some people have attention spans of sandflies.

Id hate to read Bushes biography from the era - "ducked out of going to nam.....didnt show up for training....snorted some coke...daddies mad i ran my business into the ground" :roll:

To those looking to his political leanings Colin Powell isnt either a Dem or a Rep. Both sides of the house like him because hes compotent has integrity and serves to the best of his ability. Which is what happened when Bush came along as he was asked him to stay on.

The fact was he was used like a disposable rag...to burnish and give a shine to policies which were dirty from the get go....

hank

10-19-2008, 03:41 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

Wow.

hank

Skutatos

10-19-2008, 03:41 PM

The media is full of **** these days guys. I don't know a single republican that thinks Obama is a muslim, an arab, or a terrorist. Im sure they are out there, but they are fringe.

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 03:44 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

Projecting?

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 03:46 PM

The media is full of **** these days guys. I don't know a single republican that thinks Obama is a muslim, an arab, or a terrorist. Im sure they are out there, but they are fringe.

That being the case why make such a fuss over the fact that Obama had business dealings with Ayers for the sake of community and charity for something Ayers did when Obama was 8 years old and has publicly condemned on multiple occasions? Why do hardcore Republicans insist on repeating his middle name?

JKD

10-19-2008, 03:50 PM

bugkill

10-19-2008, 03:51 PM

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

So it is a "white thing" when someone white supports McCain, right? Why is it that some of you bring up the race thing as a reason for anyone black voting for Obama? Yes, Obama speaks well, and is great at inspiring people, but why in the hell do you think that he is not about anything else? I just do not get all this crap about blacks voting for him just because he has darker shade than white (let's not forget that he was raised by white grandparents and is half black, with an african father).

I could sit here and say that many whites are voting for McCain because of the color of his skin, but it is ridiculous to say it, and it is irrelevant. Obama meets the qualifications to RUN for president and then it is up to the american people to decide. It does not matter how much time you have in public office or if you ever served in the military, you still have to convince the public that you are best suited for the job, and right now, Obama has been more convincing.

Colin Powell did not make his decision based on Obama's color, and it is a slap in his face to even suggest it, especially after he has been in the republican party for many years supporting white canditates. All of a sudden, he supports a black canditate, and you want to turn around and say that he did it because Obama is black?

Hilarious.

seraosha

10-19-2008, 03:58 PM

Projecting?

Nah.

"I ceased to advertise my
mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to
suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to
whites."

Race matters today.
Someday it won't.

Ask Cousin Pookie, he'll explain it to you.

hank

10-19-2008, 03:59 PM

Powell, HW Bush, James Baker, and those sorts of guys represent the Republican party I got to know and like when I was younger. Pragmatic, level headed, thoughtful, not overly ideological. The sort of Republican that W campaigned as in '99/'00.

Today's Republican party has a bigger bible in hand, more foam around the mouth, a crazier look in the eyes, and a bigger disdain for book learnin'

Don't forget the inability to admit it made a mistake. Ever. And you also left out the penchant for claiming that anyone who disagrees with the admin isn't "patriotic."

I fully expect some yahoo to have a "list" of terrorist supporters any day now.

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 03:59 PM

Nah.

"I ceased to advertise my
mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to
suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to
whites."

Race matters today.
Someday it won't.

Ask Cousin Pookie, he'll explain it to you.

Why don't you point to something objective that shows that Powell is supporting Obama on race alone? Something he said or wrote would be helpful.

hank

Buffalo_soldier

10-19-2008, 04:00 PM

So much bitterness.

Powell is not a boyband singer. He's in a very good position to comment on politics.

hank

10-19-2008, 04:00 PM

So much bitterness.

Powell is not a boyband singer. He's in a very good position to comment on politics.

Its only race, buffalo. Here, have some koolaid.

hank

BugHunt

10-19-2008, 04:03 PM

I fully expect some yahoo to have a "list" of terrorist supporters any day now.

hank

Havent you heard the rep rallies - they shout out names on that list already "Obam...." p-)

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 04:06 PM

Nah.

"I ceased to advertise my
mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to
suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to
whites."

Race matters today.
Someday it won't.

Ask Cousin Pookie, he'll explain it to you.

"Cousin Pookie"?

No 12 or 13 year old should be made to feel that they have to spell out having white relations in order to gain acceptance or equality. That is a sad situation that some white Americas have historically created.

That you would try to make not doing so a bad thing is telling.

Misleading e-mail: From Dreams of My Father: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

Actual quote from "Dreams from My Father" [pg. xv]: When people who don't know me well, black or white, discover my background (and it is usually a discovery, for I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites), I see the split-second adjustments they have to make, the searching of my eyes for some telltale sign. They no longer know who I am. Privately, they guess at my troubled heart, I suppose - the mixed blood, the divided soul, the ghostly image of the tragic mulatto trapped between two worlds. And if I were to explain that no, the tragedy is not mine, or at least not mine alone, it is yours, sons and daughters of Plymouth Rock and Ellis Island, it is yours, children of Africa, it is the tragedy of both my wife's six-year-old cousin and his white first grade classmates, so that you need not guess at what troubles me, it's on the nightly news for all to see, and that if we could acknowledge at least that much then the tragic cycle begins to break down...well, I suspect that I sound incurably naive, wedded to lost hopes, like those Communists who peddle their newspapers on the fringes of various college towns. Or worse, I sound like I'm trying to hide from myself.

SOG

10-19-2008, 04:10 PM

I fully expect some yahoo to have a "list" of terrorist supporters any day now.
hank
I'm on it dammit!
Unpatriotic Terrorist Asshole List:
1. Hank.
2. Osama Bin Laden.
3. That Heinz Ketchup b!tch.
4. Betty Crocker - Pending
5. Pillsbury Dough Boy - Under surveillance.

So it is a "white thing" when someone white supports McCain, right?
Well I have heard Libs berating a few people on voting for McCain because he is simply white. Taking shots for the sake of taking shots is kinda fun sometimes.

That being the case why make such a fuss over the fact that Obama had business dealings with Ayers for the sake of community and charity for something Ayers did when Obama was 8 years old and has publicly condemned on multiple occasions? Why do hardcore Republicans insist on repeating his middle name?

Probably in relation to that crazy extremist pastor that Obama distanced himself from VERY fast which made others think, hmmmm.... what other fruit loops is Obama connected to. I totally agree that the thing when he was 8 years old is ridiculous however if you kept digging you could inevitably show a pattern of dealing with such people from a young age to adulthood as a regular occurrence which would suggest something more.

hank

10-19-2008, 04:11 PM

"Cousin Pookie"?

No 12 or 13 year old should be made to feel that they have to spell out having white relations in order to gain acceptance or equality. That is a sad situation that some white Americas have historically created.

That you would try to make not doing so a bad thing is telling.

I love the Cousin Pookie thing. Obama has the ability to speak with poor African Americans in the way few politicians do. And that gets turned into Obama playing the "race" card. For Christ's sake he's African American. What's he supposed to do to make ya'll happy. Paint his face and start talking like Chuck Taylor on Dave Chappelle?

Ya'll want cake and eat it too. You want to be able to say that Obama is playing the race card and then when he gets the minority vote in the country you want to say its overt racism that is getting him elected. Can't have it both ways.

And how does that explain my vote? Can ya'll not acknowledge that some people out there are voting for Obama just because? Christ he's currently polling at around 48% -50% are they all racists. What percentage is? What percentage isn't?

I'm waiting for the reasons you know Powell is voting for Obama because he's black.

hank

seraosha

10-19-2008, 04:12 PM

So it is a "white thing" when someone white supports McCain, right? Why is it that some of you bring up the race thing as a reason for anyone black voting for Obama? Yes, Obama speaks well, and is great at inspiring people, but why in the hell do you think that he is not about anything else? I just do not get all this crap about blacks voting for him just because he has darker shade than white (let's not forget that he was raised by white grandparents and is half black, with an african father).

I could sit here and say that many whites are voting for McCain because of the color of his skin, but it is ridiculous to say it, and it is irrelevant. Obama meets the qualifications to RUN for president and then it is up to the american people to decide. It does not matter how much time you have in public office or if you ever served in the military, you still have to convince the public that you are best suited for the job, and right now, Obama has been more convincing.

Colin Powell did not make his decision based on Obama's color, and it is a slap in his face to even suggest it, especially after he has been in the republican party for many years supporting white canditates. All of a sudden, he supports a black canditate, and you want to turn around and say that he did it because Obama is black?

Hilarious.

You're kidding, right?
You honestly are going to try and sell me the line that race in America isn't an issue, especially in this election? And I'll bet that many white voters are going to vote for McCain because he is white, and are not going to vote for Obama because he is black. Likewise there are going to be black voters voting for Obama because he is black.

Right or wrong, it is a reality, and pretending it isn't is disingenuous.

And you said it yourself "he has been in the republican party for many years supporting white canditates. All of a sudden, he supports a black canditate, and you want to turn around and say that he did it because Obama is black?"

Yeah, I do think he is throwing his hat into the ring in favor of Obama because he is black. And I have absolutely no problems with that, as long as folks are honest about it. Hell, I've stated all along that the only candidate I'll vote for is one with military experience and proven leadership ability...and Powell would get my vote in a second if he would run, just on his character alone.

But you guys are going to beat the drums and play race cards and pretend that it doesn't matter...because you really want to believe it doesn't matter, but it does.

Someday, God willing, if we keep raising our kids right, and our culture eventually evolves into one that's colorblind, I'll be the first to cheer.

But until that day, I'll call it like I see it.

hank

10-19-2008, 04:13 PM

Yeah, I do think he is throwing his hat into the ring in favor of Obama because he is black. And I have absolutely no problems with that, as long as folks are honest about it.

Where do you get this from? I want something factual to back this up please.

hank

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 04:19 PM

Yeah, I do think he is throwing his hat into the ring in favor of Obama because he is black. And I have absolutely no problems with that, as long as folks are honest about it.

So what you are saying is you are voting for McCain because he's white?

shocker1

10-19-2008, 04:19 PM

I am sure color is a minor factor but the condition of the Republican party and how Powell was used like toilet paper by the clown in office has drove this decision. I respect Colin Powell and his decision here. One positive of Obama being elected would be an end to this color ****, one negative could be a whole new beginning to this color ****. It is up to us not politicians. Maybe if the GOP would have given us a better candidate we could respect it. I am still writing in Santa Claus though.

hank

10-19-2008, 04:26 PM

shocker1

10-19-2008, 04:30 PM

That's a good point. How many of these McCain supporters voted for him when he ran against W? Not many IIRC since McCain got worked.

hank
Absolutely, I supported McCain then and ended up voting for my job at the time. McCain has given into the crap GOP of today. I wished they would stop sending me my GOP membership cards, I stopped paying in 2005.p-)

JKD

10-19-2008, 04:33 PM

Don't forget the inability to admit it made a mistake. Ever. And you also left out the penchant for claiming that anyone who disagrees with the admin isn't "patriotic."

I fully expect some yahoo to have a "list" of terrorist supporters any day now.

hank

That's Marxist terrorist lovin' far leftist talk right there. Why do you hate 'Mericuh? How about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?

hank

10-19-2008, 04:33 PM

Absolutely, I supported McCain then and ended up voting for my job at the time. McCain has given into the crap GOP of today. I wished they would stop sending me my GOP membership cards, I stopped paying in 2005.p-)

I still get them as well and I haven't given in probably 7 years. I get invited to all kinds of Republican fund-raisers for local politicians I've never even heard of.

I also get a call a week from John Lewis. I'm in his district.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 04:36 PM

I still get them as well and I haven't given in probably 7 years. I get invited to all kinds of Republican fund-raisers for local politicians I've never even heard of.

I also get a call a week from John Lewis. I'm in his district.

hank
They could save some money on those damn pins, calendars and such. I get those invites too, I used to be big into that sort of thing when I was a member of the Chamber of Commerce. How about them faux autographed Christmas cards.?:)

shocker1

10-19-2008, 04:39 PM

Back to Powell, I was hoping very much he would run in 2000. He would make a great President but the man has seen the dark side and does not want his family to be subjected to such a horrible thing.

seraosha

10-19-2008, 04:39 PM

So what you are saying is you are voting for McCain because he's white?

Absolutely not...as I've said earlier, Military experience and leadership ability trumps everything else, in my opinion. And that's especially true in the world we find ourselves in today.

No, for race to be an issue in how I vote, a candidate from my racial background would have to make it a lot higher up the food chain than they have since this continent was invaded by illegal aliens.

And Hank, when I find something to link you to, I promise to do so.

hank

10-19-2008, 04:40 PM

You'll get a kick out of this shocker. When I was in law school I had a buddy who lived on the grounds of the family that wholly owns a large nationals chain of truckstops/filling stations. You've been to them. They are huge UT boosters as well. I won't mention their name but if you are curious pm me.

Anyway, they would always get me and my buddy to park cars when they'd have parties.

I parked cars at fundraisers for Fred Thompson and some other lower level people. Anyway, after a Christmas party we were all sitting in their house eating the catering and the WH called to invite them to a Christmas party. Apparently it was W's personal secretary calling to invite them

I have often wondered how much you have to give to get invited and how much extra ouy have to give to get a phone call instead of one of those cards.

hank

philbob

10-19-2008, 04:40 PM

let's face it obama is the right man for the job right now. I personally believe that powell is and has always been a straight shooter. He went through the crucible of viet nam vowing never to do it like that again. He is chairman of the joint chiefs during desert storm and it's basically the polar opposite of everything that was bad about viet nam except for the part where people have to die. It's a short, decisive, ass-whupping of a war. He ascends to secretary of state in the w. Bush administration and is basically sidelined because george w. Bush has run a dysfunctional presidency where the vice president and sec def ran roughshod over the inter-agency process. And you get the first two years of the iraq war that are a disaster. On the way out the door (bush fired him) he stays in the oval office not leaving until he lays his cards on the table for the reluctant bush and tells his the nature of his own screwed up administration. What more can he do in the face of a president who won't believe his own eyes?

So now he's a bad general. Give me a break. Some of you guy should be ashamed. I know the republican base doesn't like it. But face facts your party needs to get nuked in this election so you can rebuild with out the nut cases. America has a lot of work to do getting out of the ditch. Come january 20 i hope we can all, at least temporarily, put partisanship aside for a bit while we do a serious course correction.

And as for the extreme right of the republican party that has been so vocal in calling obama a muslim sleeper agent. The base in arabic = al quaeda. Every culture has it's irreconcilables don't be one of ours. This is america we shouldn't roll like that.

dude people dont like obama not becuase he is black or a 'muslim.' but because he is the antithesis of what this country was built on; life, liberty and the presuit of happiness, not peace order and good goverment, if you belive in that garbage goto canada. Its not his right to 'spread the wealth around' or establish a governanny, the people of this nation need to be responisble for their own actions, if they really want to elevate themselves

seraosha

10-19-2008, 04:41 PM

Back to Powell, I was hoping very much he would run in 2000. He would make a great President but the man has seen the dark side and does not want his family to be subjected to such a horrible thing.

/Agreed. But from what I understand his wife told him no way, and he is going to respect that family decision.

hank

10-19-2008, 04:42 PM

I could probably get on board with Powell. I'd want to hear him talk about how it came to pass that he made that presentation to the UN. But I think he could allay my concerns on that issue and I'd be on board.

I've always considered him to be of good character but that one issue would be important to me.

hank

bugkill

10-19-2008, 04:44 PM

You're kidding, right?
You honestly are going to try and sell me the line that race in America isn't an issue, especially in this election? And I'll bet that many white voters are going to vote for McCain because he is white, and are not going to vote for Obama because he is black. Likewise there are going to be black voters voting for Obama because he is black.

Right or wrong, it is a reality, and pretending it isn't is disingenuous.

And you said it yourself "he has been in the republican party for many years supporting white canditates. All of a sudden, he supports a black canditate, and you want to turn around and say that he did it because Obama is black?"

Yeah, I do think he is throwing his hat into the ring in favor of Obama because he is black. And I have absolutely no problems with that, as long as folks are honest about it. Hell, I've stated all along that the only candidate I'll vote for is one with military experience and proven leadership ability...and Powell would get my vote in a second if he would run, just on his character alone.

But you guys are going to beat the drums and play race cards and pretend that it doesn't matter...because you really want to believe it doesn't matter, but it does.

Someday, God willing, if we keep raising our kids right, and our culture eventually evolves into one that's colorblind, I'll be the first to cheer.

But until that day, I'll call it like I see it.

It is only a issue for that individual that walks into that booth and votes. Most of these people will not come out and say it, and none of us have the power to read minds, so why in the hell do people waste time talking about? Are there going to be people (ON BOTH SIDES) that may vote because the canditate is of their racial makeup? Of course. Is there is anything anybody can do about it? Absolutely not.

I'm just sick and tired of people making the statement, because it is completely irrelevant and perfectly LEGAL. I can only go by Powell's perfectly laid out reasons why he is not supporting McCain (he made a pretty damn good argument why he is not supporting him and most of it matches my feelings also), and none of it had anything to do with Obama's skin color.

Like I said before, you had nothing to say about Powell when he was supporting white canditates in the republican party, so why all of sudden say that he has lost all credibility (which is exactly that when you support someone because of skin color alone) in making a sound judgement on supporting someone that you may not like?

Respect the man's decision and remember what McCain said at the rally, "You do not have to fear a Barack Obama presidency."

seraosha

10-19-2008, 04:46 PM

shocker1

10-19-2008, 04:47 PM

Cool story hank, we have a lot in common in our thinking. I tell you the politician that showed the most lower level interest and would come talk to us was Al Gore. I know one thing, my career path was very bright back in those days. It pays to be a part of a pet project.

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 04:51 PM

Absolutely not...as I've said earlier, Military experience and leadership ability trumps everything else, in my opinion. And that's especially true in the world we find ourselves in today.

No, for race to be an issue in how I vote, a candidate from my racial background would have to make it a lot higher up the food chain than they have since this continent was invaded by illegal aliens.

And Hank, when I find something to link you to, I promise to do so.

So you can vote for a candidate for other reasons, and that's "honest", but Colin Powell and others can not do the same without it being "dishonest"?

Just seeking to understand some of your statements.

seraosha

10-19-2008, 04:53 PM

so why all of sudden say that he has lost all credibility (which is exactly that when you support someone because of skin color alone) in making a sound judgement on supporting someone that you may not like?

I don't say he has "lost all credibility", only that he has selected a black candidate for president to endorse. As to liking Obama, that's hardly relevant.
I don't like most people, and especially politicians. Although Palin would be welcome to my house for dinner, as long as my wife cooked.

You are certainly free to disagree with my admittedly personal opinion on the matter, but even you have to acknowledge the futility in trying to convince someone that they are wrong, especially in this polarized political environment.

seraosha

10-19-2008, 04:55 PM

So you can vote for a candidate for other reasons, and that's "honest", but Colin Powell and others can not do the same without it being "dishonest".

I'm free to believe them or not, as are you.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 04:55 PM

One thing I do question about Powell's decision is how he weighed the conflict with his core Conservative politics. I would say as I said before it stems from how he was treated as demonstrated by some here, then the fact Obama is partially black made it easier. We must admit that, many blacks are voting for him on that basis. Nothing wrong with that really IMO. Blacks have a different view on this as whites for good reasons. The number of white folks supporting him also says a lot on how far we have come.

Andrew Chalmers

10-19-2008, 04:57 PM

He took one for the team.

I don't think it goes deeper than that, and most folks with military background understand the concept, as I'm sure many civilians do too. It's unfortunate that the team he took one for didn't deserve a man of his calibers loyalty, but he made his own choice in that matter.

Under that interpretation - Powell set aside his duty to the country's best interest and let the "team" (political ideologues - not the country)'s interests get to him.

There is no way around it. Either Powell misinterpreted or was misled to believe that the intelligence was strong; or he lied because his loyalty to the "team" overrode his duties as secretary of state.

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 04:57 PM

I'm free to believe them or not, as are you.

So you actually have no reason to believe Colin Powell's decision is based on skin color other than the visual similarities you see in them?

That's why I thought you were projecting. Race seems to be your issue. You liked Powell well enough, till he chose to back a black candidate.

You voted white candidate in the past and that's just a coincidence, because it was always about the issues for you.

He voted white candidate in the past, but that's only because he never had a black candidate to chose before, it was never about the issues for him then or now and to say otherwise is "dishonest" ?

plato

10-19-2008, 05:06 PM

He should run for president instead

Colin Powell speaks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/9LbLxja4UHY

hank

10-19-2008, 05:15 PM

I'm free to believe them or not, as are you.

Of course this is true, but what is it about Powell that makes you think he chose Obama for race? There had to be some facts that, when you considered them, lead you to believe that Powell was voting for Obama only because Obama was black. I just want to know what those facts were.

hank

bugkill

10-19-2008, 05:26 PM

LMAO, why is it hard for some of you to listen to what Powell said for the reasons he is not supporting McCain, and you will find that NONE of it has to do with the color of Obama's skin.

There are plenty of reasons for why people (black and white) are supporting Obama, and not all of it has to do with his skin color.

WarDancer

10-19-2008, 05:27 PM

There was always something about Powell that bothered me. Even back to his days as Chief of Staff. Now I know what it is.

plato

10-19-2008, 05:34 PM

There was always something about Powell that bothered me. Even back to his days as Chief of Staff. Now I know what it is.
What is it, then? Would you like to share?

bugkill

10-19-2008, 05:34 PM

There was always something about Powell that bothered me. Even back to his days as Chief of Staff. Now I know what it is.

Yeah, it always sucks when a person makes a decision that does not matches yours, the nerve of that man.

seraosha

10-19-2008, 05:34 PM

You liked Powell well enough, till he chose to back a black candidate.

Oh not at all, I still like Powell.

And I'd like him more if he came out and said that part of why he decided to get behind Obama was because of their shared African heritage (although by way of Jamacia in Powells case), and that his being a "transformational figure" and a more "inclusive candidate" are just added bonus's.

That's why you've been choosing white candidates for President, up until now, right Hot Lips?p-)

bugkill

10-19-2008, 05:49 PM

Oh not at all, I still like Powell.

And I'd like him more if he came out and said that part of why he decided to get behind Obama was because of their shared African heritage (although by way of Jamacia in Powells case), and that his being a "transformational figure" and a more "inclusive candidate" are just added bonus's.

That's why you've been choosing white candidates for President, up until now, right Hot Lips?p-)

We are still waiting on your evidence that say's that Powell is voting for Obama based solely on the color of his skin? You can't say it is "part" of the reason for him voting for Obama, because there is nothing wrong with people hoping to see a black president one day, so there is no need to make a big deal out of that. You only bring up the race issue if you believe that is the ONLY reason he is voting for him, or against McCain, not because you may think it is part of the reason.

A part of me would like to see a black president, but not unless I think he is not capable of doing the job, and Obama has proven to me that he could do it. I may disagree with him on certain things, but I also disagreed with Clinton, and the country did pretty well despite all of that, so what the hell.

Like McCain said, we have nothing to fear of an Obama presidency.

Lt-Col A. Tack

10-19-2008, 06:06 PM

Like McCain said, we have nothing to fear of an Obama presidency.

But an Obama presidency coupled with a Congress controlled by the same party...plenty to worry about.

Lt-Col A. Tack

10-19-2008, 06:09 PM

Oh not at all, I still like Powell.

I liked Powell as a general, but not a Secretary of State.
Not nearly strong enough; I thought his UN presentation was weak and somewhat pointless.
And I saw it as his job to scare our enemies; at that he failed.

Condoleeza has accomplished much more as SOS.

whitenoise

10-19-2008, 06:11 PM

dude people dont like obama not becuase he is black or a 'muslim.' but because he is the antithesis of what this country was built on; life, liberty and the presuit of happiness, not peace order and good goverment, if you belive in that garbage goto canada. Its not his right to 'spread the wealth around' or establish a governanny, the people of this nation need to be responisble for their own actions, if they really want to elevate themselves

I'll break it down for you real simple. Competition: This is a constant process of learning from failure and right now the Democrats have learned from years of getting their butts kicked. And now they have learned their lessons well and are clearly hungry as hell. They have out inspired, fund raised, organized, and argued the GOP by any measure. You think I should go to Canada because I want a Government that isn't incompetent? Well then why don't you go to North Korea where ideology rules to an extent your probably more comfortable with. Have a nice famine.

Kilgor

10-19-2008, 06:18 PM

Powell nailed it, couldn't agree with him more.

rkpo

10-19-2008, 06:30 PM

Kilgor

10-19-2008, 06:32 PM

Why else would he undermine his party?....well you determine that by looking at the outcome of it - his endorsment will effect/mean/speak to more to black people then anyone else wouldnt it? Effectively his decision to make it a 'public opinion' is justified by the outcome of that decision. Unless he is a regular commentator or ditching his team for future job prospects.

I think he, like other rep's are very pissed off with the negative Muslim terrorist tone adopted by some elements of the party. I bet Mc Cain is secretly not happy with it either.

hank

10-19-2008, 06:32 PM

Why else would he undermine his party?....well you determine that by looking at the outcome of it - his endorsment will effect/mean/speak to more to black people then anyone else wouldnt it? Effectively his decision to make it a 'public opinion' is justified by the outcome of that decision. Unless he is a regular commentator or ditching his team for future job prospects.

Did you listen to his reasons?

Why couldn't he just really believe that Obama might be better?

Am I missing something?

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 06:33 PM

"Taxes are always a redistrubution of money." - Powell

Sage. Sage indeed.

hank

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 06:38 PM

sidman69

10-19-2008, 06:56 PM

hmmm, i thought Colin Powell loved America, guess not.

hank

10-19-2008, 06:57 PM

hmmm, i thought Colin Powell loved Murika, guess not.

Fixed.

hank

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 06:58 PM

Powell, HW Bush, James Baker, and those sorts of guys represent the Republican party I got to know and like when I was younger. Pragmatic, level headed, thoughtful, not overly ideological. The sort of Republican that W campaigned as in '99/'00.

Today's Republican party has a bigger bible in hand, more foam around the mouth, a crazier look in the eyes, and a bigger disdain for book learnin'

Agreed. I was a Republican in the days of HW Bush, and when the Christian Right took control of the Oregon GOP in the early '90s, I felt it was no place for me. I became an Independent, and later a Democrat.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 06:58 PM

hmmm, i thought Colin Powell loved America, guess not.
That is really a dumb statement.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 06:59 PM

Agreed. I was a Republican in the days of HW Bush, and when the Christian Right took control of the Oregon GOP in the early '90s, I felt it was no place for me. I became an Independent, and later a Democrat.
Not you too! The sky is falling.:)

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 07:02 PM

hmmm, i thought Colin Powell loved America, guess not.

Yeah, I'm sure his immigrant parents were sleeper agents from the Jamaican Al Quieda, and brought up Colin to enter the US Army, serve in Vietnam, and rise through the ranks to undermine America by endorsing Obama.

How sly!

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 07:03 PM

Not you too! The sky is falling.:)

I was succeptable to Obama's cult of personality! Hope! Change!

shocker1

10-19-2008, 07:04 PM

I was succeptable to Obama's cult of personality! Hope! Change!
How dare you, don't you love Murika?

domokun

10-19-2008, 07:08 PM

I always thought of Colin Powell as the "Albert Speer/Erwin Rommel" of the Bush Administration: the talented genius who is swept along by those he has differences with, but doesn't really do much to correct what he knows is wrong, and after the fact, regrets it.

I agree on that completely. He was clearly most moderate in key places of Bush admin.

BTW. Didn't both parties circle around him after resignation from military?

Kilgor

10-19-2008, 07:15 PM

hmmm, i thought Colin Powell loved America, guess not.

He clearly hates freedom.

Cornerstone

10-19-2008, 07:21 PM

I'm going to call it as it is, "just another day in the life of Barak Obama"

good endorsement, is it the nail, IDK, maybe

bugkill

10-19-2008, 07:34 PM

Yeah, I'm sure his immigrant parents were sleeper agents from the Jamaican Al Quieda, and brought up Colin to enter the US Army, serve in Vietnam, and rise through the ranks to undermine America by endorsing Obama.

How sly!

Lol, I can actually see the McCain Campaign making that accusation against Powell, Jamaican Al Qaeda, LMAO!

budgie

10-19-2008, 07:35 PM

I find it funny how all of sudden we got republicans talking s**t about Powell because he endorsed Obama. Some of them are hinting that he did it because Obama is winning in the polls, or to fix his standing after the UN debacle.

Well spotted. Some examples:

It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

God that Colin Powell book I bought was heavy and hard work to read....I fair bust me nose as I slipped asleep trying to finish it. Colin is surely banking on the winner Osama giving him a job....boost Colin into the long grass I say. CP is boring and was promoted well above his station as heads cleaner.

There was always something about Powell that bothered me. Even back to his days as Chief of Staff. Now I know what it is.

hmmm, i thought Colin Powell loved America, guess not.

Anyone here remember the calls of "We're not racists. We'd vote for Powell if he'd run on a GOP ticket!"

brainplay

10-19-2008, 07:36 PM

One positive of Obama being elected would be an end to this color ****, one negative could be a whole new beginning to this color ****. It is up to us not politicians. Maybe if the GOP would have given us a better candidate we could respect it. I am still writing in Santa Claus though.

Face it, this is never going to go away. Despite the many black achievements (many a title's holders being republican ironically) it still has crept up. Even if he gets elected its still going to be there. After he's out of office its going to be there. Its an excuse that will not die until the people change. One man isn't going to do that even if he gives them every entitlement they can get their hands on.

I wish this was a minor thing but the level of racism from African Americans that I have to see (my government building is damn near 95% black) is near astounding. There is not justification of his qualifications. There is just "because he's black". Do I think Colin Powell is immune from it? With his record, hell no.

Its ironic how he had been booted to the curb by Republicans long ago only to be held in high esteem so suddenly by dems.

bugkill

10-19-2008, 07:41 PM

Anyone here remember the calls of "We're not racists. We'd vote for Powell if he'd run on a GOP ticket!"

pwned

What are you trying say? I'm a bit confused by your post.

Thor

10-19-2008, 07:42 PM

I find it funny how all of sudden we got republicans talking s**t about Powell because he endorsed Obama. Some of them are hinting that he did it because Obama is winning in the polls, or to fix his standing after the UN debacle.
All true. Powell became Bush's lapdog, a political soldier and not a political leader with integrity. He ****ed up, and he knows it. Endorsing some radical without credentials like Obama is a way for him of trying to make up for that. Especially when he does it a few weeks before the election and with an Obama lead in the polls...

Other than that I like Powell, but it's fair to question his motives and jugdment in this case (just like when he presented the WMD finds to the UN).

Listen, Powell made a great point about Palin and where the republican party has moved.
Problem is that whenever someone tries point to fingers against Palin, a VP candidate, it puts Obama in the spotlight. The guy who wants to become President of the United States, you know? Obama has no experience or credentials whatsoever. A 22 year old McDonalds manager has more experience than he does. And spare me any comparsion with JFK, who was in fact more like McCain. He was not only a reformative senator like McCain but also a Navy Officer and had commanded a Torpedo Boat during WWII.

The only thing Obama has is charisma and a very dark past with terrorist, extremist, communist, and criminal affiliations.

Palin is a successful, reformative governor with the highest approval rating in the country. Bill Clinton has a similar background, but Palin had to fight more and run against her own party. Something that takes guts and skills. Arguably one of the best VP candidates in the country, and that's why McCain chose her.

philbob

10-19-2008, 07:42 PM

I'll break it down for you real simple. Competition: This is a constant process of learning from failure and right now the Democrats have learned from years of getting their butts kicked. And now they have learned their lessons well and are clearly hungry as hell. They have out inspired, fund raised, organized, and argued the GOP by any measure. You think I should go to Canada because I want a Government that isn't incompetent? Well then why don't you go to North Korea where ideology rules to an extent your probably more comfortable with. Have a nice famine.

Look this country was founded on the idea that you take care of your self. People who betray that ideology for free or cheap medicine and housing are nothing more then willing slaves, the goverment that can give you anything can take everything away. I want a goverment that is compitent but i want one that belives in responisbility more. So enjoy your salvery, tool.:bash:

budgie

10-19-2008, 07:44 PM

What are you trying say? I'm a bit confused by your post.

Sorry yeah two sets of messages. I'll defrag them.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 07:47 PM

Face it, this is never going to go away. Despite the many black achievements (many a title's holders being republican ironically) it still has crept up. Even if he gets elected its still going to be there. After he's out of office its going to be there. Its an excuse that will not die until the people change. One man isn't going to do that even if he gives them every entitlement they can get their hands on.

I wish this was a minor thing but the level of racism from African Americans that I have to see (my government building is damn near 95% black) is near astounding. There is not justification of his qualifications. There is just "because he's black". Do I think Colin Powell is immune from it? With his record, hell no.

Its ironic how he had been booted to the curb by Republicans long ago only to be held in high esteem so suddenly by dems.
I agree, only we can change that. Doesn't hurt to be optimistic, reality is depressing sometimes. It is a big step forward in that regard if elected. Or as I pointed out could cause long dead racist tendencies to rise particularly in tough economic times.

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 07:47 PM

Good for Colin Powell. I agree that both men would make decent Presidents, but that Obama's campaign seems more inclusionary to the American people as a whole .......

Interesting in that you view that as a positive attribute and I view that as a negative attribute

budgie

10-19-2008, 07:53 PM

Interesting in that you view that as a positive attribute and I view that as a negative attribute

Cuz we all know exclusion pwns right?

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 07:58 PM

Cuz we all know exclusion pwns right?

I don't quite understand what you are saying, but I am guessing you are making a sarcastic remark - my comment refers to the concept of entitlement (not exclusion) - I disagree with entitlement for the same reason I disagree with Socialism.

I wanted to add "dip****", but decided not to.

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 08:10 PM

Interesting in that you view that as a positive attribute and I view that as a negative attribute

I'm a bit confused by that statement. Are you saying that the President of the US should only act as if he's representing the interests of a narrow few, rather than ALL Americans?

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 08:23 PM

I'm a bit confused by that statement. Are you saying that the President of the US should only act as if he's representing the interests of a narrow few, rather than ALL Americans?

Please read my comment above - if that doesn't explicitly answer your question, I don't know what to tell you, besides "No".

MPNFL

10-19-2008, 08:30 PM

I'm glad Powell took the time to defend Muslims, and more importantly Muslim soldiers that have given everything for their country. it's good to be treated as an equal.

gaijinsamurai

10-19-2008, 08:30 PM

I think my previous post was made before I read your explanation. Disregard!!!

California Joe

10-19-2008, 08:39 PM

I'm glad Powell took the time to defend Muslims, and more importantly Muslim soldiers that have given everything for their country. it's good to be treated as an equal.

Yeah, I thought that was appropriate. I have noticed that the Rightwingnuts enjoy substituting words when they really mean "Asshole"...

Muslim
Arab
Liberal
Democrat
Maverick...Remember back when they called McCain that and they weren't supporting him? When they supported the f*cktard that slandered McCain constantly?

hank

10-19-2008, 08:41 PM

Lots of right-wing pejoratives in this election.

hank

brainplay

10-19-2008, 08:47 PM

Well, I can see some initial racism crawling out of the woodwork but it will die down over time. Tough economic times will amplify it but the economy will work itself out in the next 4 years so he'll get credit for that which will silence many. Well assuming he doesn't make it worse. Dear "Buddy Christ", plz don't let them screw it up worse.

brainplay

10-19-2008, 08:49 PM

Lots of right-wing pejoratives in this election.

hank

Left wing ain't helping. Lots of froth and glazed eyes in the past months from the dems. But its politically correct/popular so its ok. p-)

hank

10-19-2008, 08:50 PM

I'd like to hear some of the left-wing pejoratives for McCain. Please expound mr. play.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 08:51 PM

I'd like to hear some of the left-wing pejoratives for McCain. Please expound mr. play.

hank
Bush Bush Bush get em Bush Bush

hank

10-19-2008, 08:53 PM

That's one, although I know lots of righties that now think Bush is derogatory.

Next.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 08:54 PM

All you need is Bush

hank

10-19-2008, 08:55 PM

Ok, I can live with that.

hank

11 Bravo

10-19-2008, 08:56 PM

Feh! his endorsement means as much to me as Alec Baldwins would..........

Nothing

I dont look to Celebrities for My Political Decisions

Right there with ya on that. To anyone with half a conservative brain it was obvious some years ago where Powell's sympathies lay...now he waits to the last minute as his boy stumbles figuring he needs his pathetic boost.

hank

10-19-2008, 08:57 PM

Andrew Chalmers

10-19-2008, 08:58 PM

Pardon me for putting including a snip bit of what Powell said - which I thought was particularly important.

"Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no. That's not America. Is there something wrong with a seven-year-old Muslim American kid believing he or she could be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion that [Obama] is a Muslim and might have an association with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

"I feel particularly strong about this because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay, was of a mother at Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave.

And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone, and it gave his awards - Purple Heart, Bronze Star - showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death, he was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the head stone, it didn't have a Christian cross. It didn't have a Star of David. It has a crescent and star of the Islamic faith.

"And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was fourteen years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he could serve his country and he gave his life." Picture link: http://www.newyorker.com/images/2008/09/29/p465/080929_slideshowplaton16_p465.jpg

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:02 PM

If only I could turn the clock back and see what ya'll would say if Powell endorsed McCain. I imagine it would be a big deal then.

Why? Because it is a big deal for a guy with Powell's pedigree to endorse Obama and to do it for the reasons he stated.

hank
I would say he did it for party. I would rather turn back the clock, nominate Powell instead and see what the reaction would be. I know he will never run but I would imagine some hypocrisy would play out.

California Joe

10-19-2008, 09:04 PM

Right there with ya on that. To anyone with half a conservative brain it was obvious some years ago where Powell's sympathies lay...now he waits to the last minute as his boy stumbles figuring he needs his pathetic boost.

Yeah, cause the former Head of the Joint Chiefs and a cabinet member is exactly like a fat actor that married Kim Basinger. WTF are you smoking?

whitenoise

10-19-2008, 09:05 PM

Look this country was founded on the idea that you take care of your self. People who betray that ideology for free or cheap medicine and housing are nothing more then willing slaves, the goverment that can give you anything can take everything away. I want a goverment that is compitent but i want one that belives in responisbility more. So enjoy your salvery, tool.:bash:

I just ask because you sound like a paranoid out of touch end times kind of guy. You can equate universal health care to slavery if you like but don't forget that that business community (Boeing, GM, Lockheed, et. all) is begging for it because health care costs are killing our ability to compete with all the other wealthy nations that all have universal health care. And I am sure you are so pure that you've already confiscated and burned your Grandparents Medicare cards. Or is that a kind of socialism that you like? I find your bitterness a good sign that that thirty percent solid W Bush supporters know that the end is near and they are getting jittery. Lets have a nice chat on November 5 and I can talk you off a ledge, or not.

plato

10-19-2008, 09:08 PM

Colin Powell on "meet the press" today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/T_NMZv6Vfh8

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:08 PM

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:11 PM

I have Confederate heritage.

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:13 PM

I have Confederate heritage.
Banjo? To each his own.

plato

10-19-2008, 09:17 PM

This guy has a muslim heritage, too: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/krkhan.htm

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/krskhan-gravesite-photo-september-2007-001.jpg

ronnieraygun

10-19-2008, 09:17 PM

If only I could turn the clock back and see what ya'll would say if Powell endorsed McCain. I imagine it would be a big deal then.

Why? Because it is a big deal for a guy with Powell's pedigree to endorse Obama and to do it for the reasons he stated.

hank

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27172

This thread looks promising for at least minor face-in-**** rubbing for the talk radio sycophants now beating the drum against Powell.

Andrew Chalmers

10-19-2008, 09:17 PM

Obama is more than likely nothing but a liberal Atheist.

If he were a liberal Atheist - why bother visiting the church with Rev. Wright?

But he has a muslim heritage and with that comes a different set of values.

Muslim heritage? what is that? genetic donation from his biological father? His Indonesian step-father? white maternal grandparents?

I'd say that the choices he has made regarding his affiliation with a terrorist and various islamic and political extremists was probably influenced by this. Just as his sudden trip to Pakistan during his college years was or various turban outfit photo shoots.

... are you serious? The "turban outfit" was Obama visiting Somalia and wearing a traditional Somali outfit in 2006.

OMG - I just found out that all the APEC leaders are Vietnamese!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inju/301134726/

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:21 PM

This guy has a muslim heritage, too:
I think it's a pretty low blow to try and involve fallen soldiers in politics.

R.I.P. to the soldier.

I would have no problem serving with a soldier of muslim faith, but that doesn't mean that I would vote for him.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:23 PM

Banjo? To each his own.
So you don't like the banjo?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27172

This thread looks promising for at least minor face-in-**** rubbing for the talk radio sycophants now beating the drum against Powell.
There may be some crow on the menu.

all the American Presidents will continue be affluent white males.

SOG

10-19-2008, 09:28 PM

A part of me would like to see a black president, but not unless I think he is not capable of doing the job, and Obama has proven to me that he could do it.

Really? Obama has proven to me he votes just like the rest of his party and is a died in the wool politico.

"When I was asked, 'Would I have voted for the $87 billion,' I said 'no,' " Obama said in a speech before a Democratic community group in suburban Chicago in November 2003. "I said 'no' unequivocally because, at a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush. If we keep on getting steamrolled, we're not going to stand a chance."

Yet Obama has voted for all of the president's war funding requests since coming to the Senate, and is poised to vote in favor of the latest request when it comes to the Senate floor this spring. Liberal groups have demanded that lawmakers cut off funds for the war as a way to force its end, but Obama has joined most Democrats in the House and Senate in saying he would not take such a move.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/03/22/obama_defends_votes_in_favor_of_iraq_funding/

Yeah, he sounds like a certified genius :roll: He's got a mouth that won't stop and a smooth answer for everything. That means he is a salesman and a really good one at that. Unfortunately when you compare his mouth to his voting record it reveals what he is. Yet another politician. When I deal with people I don't give a **** what they say but what they do. What this guy says can't erase what he has done. When he becomes president what he has done in the past will largely be his road map for the future. I'll pass.

"In reality, when they both got to the Senate, Senator Obama's votes are exactly the same as Senator Clinton's," Clinton strategist Mark Penn said Monday at a Harvard University forum.
Obillary? Oh no...

I may disagree with him on certain things, but I also disagreed with Clinton, and the country did pretty well despite all of that, so what the hell.
The country didn't go forward and pretty much didn't go anywhere. Clinton rested on his laurels and enjoyed the financial building success of the Regan Empire and was handed a near perfect country from Bush Senior after a resoundingly successful war in the gulf. Clinton also greatly failed to pursue America's enemies or solve anything on a diplomatic front with them. (Unlike Reagan who threatened militarily and resolved diplomatically) Clinton had to be brow beaten to go after terrorists and when he did so it was in a very stand offish manner.

I think Obama is better than Bill Clinton and Al Gore but I think even Hillary would have made a better more decisive president than Bill.

I think we are better off this election than the last three. But I'll take McCain over Obama. McCain doesn't know it all, he stumbles when he tries to politically attack someone else, he doesn't have a answer that slips off his tongue like syrup without taste, he doesn't screw Americans over time and again with pork projects and he doesn't dance like a perfect puppet. In other words he still has an ounce of humanity left.

As for Colin Powell endorsing Obama, I'd love to hear any good reasons why he does other than the terribly vague "He will electrify the sh!t out of this country." Wow that sounds like a chanted Obama slogan. Are you kidding me? Powell doesn't think the Dems crucify their own? How much flak has Lieberman gotten for trying to work with "the other side" and compromise rather then see them as an enemy?

SOG

10-19-2008, 09:31 PM

If he were a liberal Atheist - why bother visiting the church with Rev. Wright?

What are you kidding me? It's election. George Bush made the rounds. Obama was to. Funny, after election I didn't see Bush's ass in church unless it was Easter or some other traditional affair. Anybody want to take odds on seeing Obama in church? What, they don't get Sundays off? That must be it. Elementary pandering to the crowds at its very base.

plato

10-19-2008, 09:32 PM

I think it's a pretty low blow to try and involve fallen soldiers in politics.

R.I.P. to the soldier.

I would have no problem serving with a soldier of muslim faith, but that doesn't mean that I would vote for him.
Who is "him"? A muslim soldier or Obama?

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:36 PM

Muslim in general.

hank

10-19-2008, 09:37 PM

At least you admit to being a bigot Thor. I'll give you credit for that.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:39 PM

At least you admit to being a bigot Thor. I'll give you credit for that.

hank
In his defense I would not vote for a Muslim either. Sorry

plato

10-19-2008, 09:41 PM

Muslim in general.
I see. A muslim soldier is fine, but you just won't vote for him or her.

MPNFL

10-19-2008, 09:43 PM

Yeah, I thought that was appropriate. I have noticed that the Rightwingnuts enjoy substituting words when they really mean "Asshole"...

Muslim
Arab
Liberal
Democrat
Maverick...Remember back when they called McCain that and they weren't supporting him? When they supported the f*cktard that slandered McCain constantly?

i think so? what was his name? but you got it right about some in the neo-conservative block.

hank

10-19-2008, 09:43 PM

Its a big ol bigot party here at mp.net.

Let's have a party. We can all make fun of joos and muslims and buddhists. Anybody that doesn't look like us. Fun times.

hank

Chulo

10-19-2008, 09:44 PM

Its a big ol bigot party here at mp.net.

Let's have a party. We can all make fun of joos and muslims and buddhists. Anybody that doesn't look like us. Fun times.

hank
dont forget Christians and republicans

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:45 PM

Its a big ol bigot party here at mp.net.

Let's have a party. We can all make fun of joos and muslims and buddhists. Anybody that doesn't look like us. Fun times.

hank
So religion is a race now. Nice, learn something new everyday.

hank

10-19-2008, 09:45 PM

We'll make fun of them the most.

Anybody want to work up a #6 with me?

hank

MPNFL

10-19-2008, 09:46 PM

so people would be willing to fight by my side but not vote for me for office? if i'm willing to pull the trigger for my country and my brothers in my unit then i think i've proven my worth for running for any office.

edit: in case no one caught it, i'm muslim (don't really practice tho).

hank

10-19-2008, 09:46 PM

So religion is a race now. Nice, learn something new everyday.

Bigotry is different that racism. Bigotry is not limited to race. Its like racism but more inclusive. Bigots jsut hate those who are different for any reason. Like Thor.

hank

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:47 PM

I see. A muslim soldier is fine, but you just won't vote for him or her.
Correct. A different set of values that I accept with others but don't necessarily support. If I supported it and had the same beliefs I would be a muslim.

hank

10-19-2008, 09:48 PM

Correct. A different set of values that I accept but doesn't necessarily support.

Let's hear about these muslim values you are always talking about. Examples?

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:49 PM

Bigotry is different that racism. Bigotry is not limited to race. Its like racism but more inclusive.

hank
So I have to be open to voting for anyone to be a equality champion? Sorry hank but that **** just does not fly. A devote muslim should be a Conservative anyway so there may be some hope for me. Just not today. Funny **** you got going.

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 09:50 PM

MPNFL

10-19-2008, 09:50 PM

defending the constitution is the foremost responsibility of people in office and in uniform regardless of their personal 'values'

hank

10-19-2008, 09:51 PM

Blue_0

10-19-2008, 09:51 PM

<-- Would not vote for a Muslim.

I have voted for Republicans, Democrats, a Jew (singular), and Christians.

Cornerstone

10-19-2008, 09:52 PM

hank

10-19-2008, 09:52 PM

plato

10-19-2008, 09:53 PM

Correct. A different set of values that I accept with others but don't necessarily support. If I supported it and had the same beliefs I would be a muslim.
Fair enough..

ronnieraygun

10-19-2008, 09:53 PM

Holy crap. Well, I'm late for my Stormfront meeting. Check all you Hammerskins in this thread later.

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:53 PM

Let's hear about these muslim values you are always talking about. Examples?

hank
Take some time to study Islam. I have.

I don't want to start some religious war here. I simply don't support it and can't see any problem with that.

MPNFL

10-19-2008, 09:53 PM

I respectfully disagree

yea, so do i.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 09:54 PM

Shocker you know exactly what I'm saying. Saying you cannot vote for any muslim solely because he or she is a muslim is bigotted. Saying you won't vote for a particular muslim for a different reason isn't. There is a difference and you fully understand that I am sure.

hank
A devote Muslim would be in conflict with my idea of America and America would conflict with his. A devote Christian pushing religion from high office would bring the same scorn. Would you not agree? A Muslim moderate could sway me but I am sorry it would be much harder for him/her to do so.

hank

10-19-2008, 09:54 PM

Take some time to study Islam. I have.

I don't want to start some religious war here. I simply don't support it and can't see any problem with that.

I'm sure you've really studied Islam Thor. You are so predictable.

Thor - I know what I mean I just can't or won't say it.

hank

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 09:56 PM

defending the constitution is the foremost responsibility of people in office and in uniform regardless of their personal 'values'

Serving in the military does not, in and of itself, qualify someone to lead this country. Ask any Obama supporter about whether they think McCain's service to his country makes him more qualified than Obama to be the next leader of this country.

hank

10-19-2008, 09:56 PM

A devote Muslim would be in conflict with my idea of America and America would conflict with his. A devote Christian pushing religion from high office would bring the same scorn. Would you not agree?

Not necessarily. If I thought a person's beliefs would render them incapable of performing their job I wouldn't vote for them.

But that's not what ya'll said. Ya'll said I wouldn't vote for a muslim. That is very different.

hank

Cornerstone

10-19-2008, 09:57 PM

A devote Muslim would be in conflict with my idea of America and America would conflict with his. A devote Christian pushing religion from high office would bring the same scorn. Would you not agree? A Muslim moderate could sway me but I am sorry it would be much harder for him/her to do so.
The similarities are there, they worship the same God, however in different ways...

Thor

10-19-2008, 09:59 PM

I'm sure you've really studied Islam Thor. You are so predictable.

Thor - I know what I mean I just can't or won't say it.

hank
I don't know if the first part was meant to be sarcasm. But yes, I have and I have the Koran as an audio book on my puter right now.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:01 PM

Not necessarily. If I thought a person's beliefs would render them incapable of performing their job I wouldn't vote for them.

But that's not what ya'll said. Ya'll said I wouldn't vote for a muslim. That is very different.

hankExactly
I wouldn't, just like I would not vote for Pat Robertson. Christians running for office are by and large hypocrites. Muslims have a stronger devotion to their faith which could cause problems. I admire how devoted Muslims are to God and wished Christians would take note but that does not mean I would want them running the country. hank you are drawing conclusions which do not make much sense, maybe even arguing for the sake of it.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:02 PM

I don't know if the first part was meant to be sarcasm. But yes, I have and I have the Koran as an audio book on my puter right now.

Then I don't see why you can't articulate the reasons you could not vote for one. Splain yourself, Thor.

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 10:03 PM

Exactly
I wouldn't, just like I would not vote for Pat Robertson. Christians running for office are by and large hypocrites. Muslims have a stronger devotion to their faith which could cause problems. I admire how devoted Muslims are to God and wished Christians would take note but that does not mean I would want them running the country. hank you drawing conclusions which do not make much sense, maybe even arguing for the sake of it.

Alright, then its not fair to say you wouldn't vote for any muslim. You juswt wouldn't vote for some muslims, right?

That is a far cry from I won't vote for any muslim.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:05 PM

Alright, then its not fair to say you wouldn't vote for any muslim. You juswt wouldn't vote for some muslims, right?

That is a far cry from I won't vote for any muslim.

hank
Damn lawyers, I will be sure to be more clear.

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 10:05 PM

I just call them like a see them. If you can say you wouldn't vote for any muslim solely becuase they are a muslim then that's bigotry. I'm sorry if ya'll don't like it but that's what it is pure and simple.

hank

Hank -

I guess if you want to throw around the label "bigot" - there are many people that vote strictly on party lines who would never consider a particular candidate's specific qualifications, but reject them solely based on their party affiliation - bigotry?

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 10:06 PM

yea, so do i.

I don't get it

Bia

10-19-2008, 10:12 PM

Mr Powell is an honest man.
That's why King Georges Admin eventually snubbed him.
That's why he supports Obama now.

Integrity...
Makes sense really.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:12 PM

hank

10-19-2008, 10:12 PM

Damn lawyers, I will be sure to be more clear.

I only know what you write, not what you mean.

You've called me on plenty of technicalities.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:13 PM

Hank -

I guess if you want to throw around the label "bigot" - there are many people that vote strictly on party lines who would never consider a particular candidate's specific qualifications, but reject them solely based on their party affiliation - bigotry?
From what hank is saying it is. What you think or believe should never be considered, if you do you are a bigot. Maybe we could vote on how tall they are or if they are human.

California Joe

10-19-2008, 10:13 PM

Thor, take the anti muslim bullsh*t somewhere else. It doesn't apply to Powell or Obama and you don't even actually have a dog in this fight so leave it alone. You're making my brain hurt.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:14 PM

Here's the definition of bigotry, you tell me:

I don't see how a political party fits with that, do you? Bigotry and racism are when you view others with different race or religious beliefs with disdain soley for their differences.

You tell me.

hank
Oh so saying I would not vote for them is hate? damn son talk about technicalities. You are reaching.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:15 PM

From what hank is saying it is. What you think or believe should never be considered, if you do you are a bigot. Maybe we could vote on how tall they are or if they are human.

Nice oversimplification shocker. Nice.

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 10:17 PM

Oh so saying I would not vote for them is hate? damn son talk about technicalities. You are reaching.

Bigotry is absolutely involved when someone says I won't vote for muslims. I can't believe ya'll need me to explain this. Its not a difficult concept.

If, on the other hand a muslim candidate said "if elected I would implement sharia in the US" then that would be different bc sharia would be inconsistent with out constitution. The first example is bigotry the second is not and you know that full well.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:17 PM

Really hank, not voting for someone is not hate, disdain or the like. It is a logical thought on how that worldview could effect their ability to be pragmatic and represent all Americans. That is not hate, disdain or anything else like that. I must say this has gotten me fired up.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:19 PM

If you want to rest on that distinction shocker the nby all means go ahead. Hate is not required for bigotry but I don't want to offend your sensibilities.

hank

rkpo

10-19-2008, 10:22 PM

Heck I wouldnt vote for a muslim either, becuase they're religion isnt in-line with what I find acceptable - unless they state otherwise. That's not bigotry.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:23 PM

So what is it then? If not hate, disdain or some other mean term what then?

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 10:26 PM

Powell isn't exactly helping by asking if there's something wrong with being a muslim, implying that Obama is one.

Powell was NOT implying that Obama is a Muslim, he was clearly pointing out that it's inappropriate and UnAmerican to paint an entire population of people as evil or terrorist... which is what Republican's are in essence saying in their not well thought out strategy to try and tear down Barack Obama through lies and inuendo. I think Powell is right, we want to make the world a better place, irrationally tearing down an entire population of people is not the smart way to accomplish that. Especially those that live among us, abide by our laws, and even serve this country faithfully.

I think it's a pretty low blow to try and involve fallen soldiers in politics.

Except when it suits your preferred party's needs no doubt. Politicians do it all the time to make points about the sacrifices our soldiers make. Which not a bad thing to remind people of. In this case I think Colin Powell was right to mention it as something that influenced his outlook on recent political activities (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/krskhan-gravesite-photo-september-2007-001.jpg).

I would have no problem serving with a soldier of muslim faith, but that doesn't mean that I would vote for him.

Wow. Whites in days gone by used to say the same things about Blacks because of their values, lifestyle, whatever. They could serve and die for country, but not have equal rights within it.

At least you admit to being a bigot Thor. I'll give you credit for that.

hank

Amen. At least Shocker clarified it as a concern, but not an irrational, blanket opposition without any effort of assessing the individual first.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:28 PM

Amen. At least Shocker clarified it as a concern, but not an irrational, blanket opposition without any effort of assessing the individual first.

Here is your line shocker.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:30 PM

Amen. At least Shocker clarified it as a concern, but not an irrational, blanket opposition without any effort of assessing the individual first.
Thank you HL, recent events and group think effect is a legitimate concern not bigotry. A Muslim would have a tough time convincing me he could put his religion aside and govern in a secular manner. Very hard time indeed. Fighting for a country and governing a mulitcultural society are way different. If that earns me some kind of lable then so be it. I will not lie about what I think to avoid name calling.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:31 PM

Heck I wouldnt vote for a muslim either, becuase they're religion isnt in-line with what I find acceptable - unless they state otherwise. That's not bigotry.

The "unless they state otherwise" is the part that takes you from bigotry and into acceptable decision-making processes.

This not difficult guys. Ya'll know exaclty what the difference is.

I don't like Bob because he's loud and he makes me uncomfortable =/= bigotry.

I don't like Bob becasue he's a n*gger = bigotry.

I can't vote for Bush bc he is a dogmatic conservative idealogue who can't deal rationally with dissent =/= bigotry.

I can't vote for Bush bc he's an evalgelical Christian and they are alwasy crazy = bigotry.

Thus endeth the lesson on tolerance.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:34 PM

Ok hank, I think I clarified that I could be swayed even if it would be much harder. Can we hug and make up?:hug:

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 10:35 PM

In a diverse multicultural society it shouldn't be unthinkable that individuals from any culture might be as capable as the next to rise up to the challenge of managing the rest in spite of their differences. We have a process in place for assessing their ability to do so before it's point to a vote. Especially when we have so many people working together in our government to make decisions... not just one man.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:37 PM

Ok hank, I think I clarified that I could be swayed even if it would be much harder. Can we hug and make up?:hug:

no to 1 yes to 2.

hank

Thor

10-19-2008, 10:38 PM

Then I don't see why you can't articulate the reasons you could not vote for one. Splain yourself, Thor.

hank
I have nothing to explain and if I would it certainly wouldn't be to you anyway.

I don't want to incite som religious war since I know there plenty of muslims here.

One example that you would encounter fairly quickly is when Mohammed orders several hundred prisoners of war (jews) claiming it was an order from God. I simply prefer the way of Jesus Christ or Buddah.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:39 PM

Ok, so you are saying that muslims would kill Jews, is that it?

I got it. Good point Thor.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:43 PM

no to 1 yes to 2.

hank
You fail, but I still love you. Jesus himself would not make a very good President either in a secular way. Is that good enough for spreading around the thought process equally? Though my religion would love this and I could live with it until I wanted to sin on the weekends.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:49 PM

You fail, but I still love you. Jesus himself would not make a very good President either in a secular way. Is that good enough for spreading around the thought process equally? Though my religion would love this and I could live with it until I wanted to sin on the weekends.

Well you know I'd have a hard time voting for Jesus as a President knowing what I know as a Christian. I'm a big believer in separation of church and state and I'd have a hard time believing the Jesus would rule putting aside his religious beliefs. If that would be the basis for not voting for a particular muslim candidate I don't think that's racism or bigotry.

I love ms. hank and the hankettes but I have a strong affinity for you shocker, how's that?

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:56 PM

Cool, you know what I mean though. Not that kinda love. I must say this was a good discussion and made me question myself. Good going on that.

Thor

10-19-2008, 10:56 PM

Powell was NOT implying that Obama is a Muslim
Many people will perceive it differently, hence why he didn't exactly help out there.

Except when it suits your preferred party's needs no doubt.
No, I just don't think it's a good idea.

Wow. Whites in days gone by used to say the same things about Blacks because of their values, lifestyle, whatever. They could serve and die for country, but not have equal rights within it.
Why so desperate? Like when Obama tried to link McCain to George Wallace.

Amen. At least Shocker clarified it as a concern, but not an irrational, blanket opposition without any effort of assessing the individual first.
Ignorance on your part. Religions simply come with different beliefs and set of values. In this case Islam is very far from what I believe in, hence I can't support a candidate with those beliefs and set of values.

Ok, so you are saying that muslims would kill Jews, is that it?

I got it. Good point Thor.

hank
Hank, you really pushed for an answer and got a perfectly reasonble example. If you have nothing to say, please just accept it.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:57 PM

Cool, you know what I mean though. Not that kinda love. I must say this was a good discussion and made me question myself. Good going on that.

Questioning yourself is always good. And that's one of the things I get paid to do. I call BS on everything I believe about every client and case on a daily basis. If I can't convince myself my clients are right how can I convince anybody else.

And everything is grey. Accept that up front.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 10:58 PM

Why so desperate? Like when Obama tried to link McCain to George Wallace.

.
Obama did not do that, some Georgian politician did and he should receive scorn for dragging up old hatred. Guys like that only perpetuate the hate.

hank

10-19-2008, 10:59 PM

Why so desperate? Like when Obama tried to link McCain to George Wallace.

Godda*mit. Obama did not try to link McCain to George Wallace. John Lewis did. And John Lewis does not speak for Obama. That just did not happen.

McCain asked Obama to denounce John Lewis know full well that he couldn't do that. But that doesn't mean that Obama said it or believes it.

hank

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 11:00 PM

Here's the definition of bigotry, you tell me:

a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

I don't see how a political party fits with that, do you? Bigotry and racism are when you view others with different race or religious beliefs with disdain soley for their differences.

You tell me.

hank

We may not be reading the same thing as I do not understand your reply. The definition describes a bigot as "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices".

The term describes the type of person defined as a "bigot" - it does not itemize out to whom the term is applicable, that is your spin on that. If you never would vote republican or never vote democrat, regardless of the qualifications of the candidate, how is that any different than never voting for someone who is of one religion or the other? In both examples, devotion to personal intolerance overrides considering someone for their individual characteristics.

Or should I assume you are referring to the "especially" brand of bigots only applicable to those discriminating on the basis of race/religion?

hank

10-19-2008, 11:01 PM

John Lewis is a civili rights icon that has hung on a little too long. He was with MLK in Montgomery and elsewhere and he's a little past his prime.

He's also my Congressman. He calls my house at least once a week with a recorded message.

hank

Thor

10-19-2008, 11:02 PM

Why couldn't Obama denounce Lewis?

hank

10-19-2008, 11:02 PM

We may not be reading the same thing as I do not understand your reply. The definition describes a bigot as "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices".

The term describes the type of person defined as a "bigot" - it does not itemize out to whom the term is applicable, that is your spin on that. If you never would vote republican or never vote democrat, regardless of the qualifications of the candidate, how is that any different than never voting for someone who is of one religion or the other? In both examples, devotion to personal intolerance overrides considering someone for their individual characteristics.

Or should I assume you are referring to the "especially" brand of bigots only applicable to those discriminating on the basis of race/religion?

What part of racial or ethnic group is confusing you? Republicans and Democrats are not racial or ethnic groups. Bigotry has always been associated with race, religion, etc. Not with political idology.

This is not a hard concept. We all know what bigotry is, don't we?

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 11:06 PM

Why couldn't Obama denounce Lewis?

Becasue Lewis is a f*cking democrat civil rights icon you dingleberry. It would be like McCain denouncing Reagan if he was still around and saying crazy stuff.

You know full well why Obama cannot denounce Lewis.

And you still haven't explained how Obama is responsible for what Lewis said. Why should Obama denounce Lewis? Lewis does not speak for Obama.

Lots of people say lots of things and Obama neither denounces nor endorses what is said. Same goes for McCain. McCain made a play on that and it didn't work and koolaid drinkers like you believe the soundbyte. Good going.

hank

Hot Lips

10-19-2008, 11:06 PM

We had a tire swing on our bigotree out back, hank.

Thor

10-19-2008, 11:06 PM

hank

10-19-2008, 11:07 PM

We had a tire swing on our bigotree out back, hank.

I bet Thor did too.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 11:08 PM

What part of racial or ethnic group is confusing you? Republicans and Democrats are not racial or ethnic groups. Bigotry has always been associated with race, religion, etc. Not with political idology.

This is not a hard concept. We all know what bigotry is, don't we?

hank
The bigotry towards Christians on this board is thick. Just read any Christian related thread. Not much is said about it either, mostly because we can take it.

Back to Powell supporting Obama. McCain and his people have done nothing but wildly attack Obama, one more reason a soft spoken Powell would switch parties. The GOP has hit rock bottom this year to levels I never thought it could. Even W spoke on the issues more during his campaign much more than this.

hank

10-19-2008, 11:09 PM

From that standpoint you have to accept that all religions essentially have the same set of values. That's not the case, they are very different. Accepting different religions is different from supporting them. I have no problem with Christianity, Buddhism etc. but I don't particularly like Islam. No different from not liking Communism.

Comminism is not a religion.

You just cannot be that simple. You can't. You use a lot of big words and I think you are somewhat sophisticated and then you make statements like this. Communism is not a religion. Its a political idology. Islam is a religion. See the difference?

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 11:10 PM

The bigotry towards Christians on this board is thick. Just read any Christian related thread. Not much is said about it either, mostly because we can take it.

Back to Powell supporting Obama. McCain and his people have done nothing but wildly attack Obama, one more reason a soft spoken Powell would switch parties. The GOP has hit rock bottom this year to levels I never thought it could. Even W spoke in the issues more during his campaign.

And I denounce Christian bigotry with the same zeal I denounce bigotry directed at Islam. Both are wrong. I hope you know that. I am a Christian for Christ's sake, albeit not a very enthusiastic one.

Taht is true about W although the issues he spoke on were mostly related to abortion rights which is a non-issue for me. But you are right.

hank

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 11:10 PM

What part of racial or ethnic group is confusing you? Republicans and Democrats are not racial or ethnic groups. Bigotry has always been associated with race, religion, etc. Not with political idology.

This is not a hard concept. We all know what bigotry is, don't we?

hank

HANK - do you know what a semi-colon is and how it works in the English language? This will make it easy on you: If you think that use of the term bigot is only applicable to intolerance based on race/religion, I say "wrong" and so does the definition. However, the term is "especially" applicable in the context of race and religion. If you have another interpretation of that definition, it must be based on the part that no one else can see except you?

Thor

10-19-2008, 11:12 PM

Becasue Lewis is a f*cking democrat civil rights icon you dingleberry. It would be like McCain denouncing Reagan if he was still around and saying crazy stuff.

You know full well why Obama cannot denounce Lewis.

And you still haven't explained how Obama is responsible for what Lewis said. Why should Obama denounce Lewis? Lewis does not speak for Obama.

Lots of people say lots of things and Obama neither denounces nor endorses what is said. Same goes for McCain. McCain made a play on that and it didn't work and koolaid drinkers like you believe the soundbyte. Good going.

hank
I don't know what affiliation Obama has with that person, but If you have someone who are making outrageous remarks I can't see why you wouldn't want to denounce that person. McCain clearly had a point.

hank

10-19-2008, 11:12 PM

Whatever softlion. If you think a diehard Republican or Democrat is a bigot then proceed. I don't know what else to tell you.

hank

hank

10-19-2008, 11:14 PM

I don't know what affiliation Obama has with that person, but If you have someone who are making outrageous remarks I can't see why you wouldn't want to denounce that person. McCain clearly had a point.

You don't know is the key phrase here Thor.

John Lewis vehemently supported Hillary Clinton right up until about 2 weeks before Obama locked it up and then he switched. There is absolutely no connection between Obama and Lewis.

I'm glad that we have finally gotten you to admit that you "didn't know" about something you commented on. That happens a lot its refreshing for you to fess up to it.

hank

Thor

10-19-2008, 11:16 PM

Comminism is not a religion.

You just cannot be that simple. You can't. You use a lot of big words and I think you are somewhat sophisticated and then you make statements like this. Communism is not a religion. Its a political idology. Islam is a religion. See the difference?

hank
Communism represent a different set of values, just like Islam. Religions are not neutral entities.

shocker1

10-19-2008, 11:17 PM

And I denounce Christian bigotry with the same zeal I denounce bigotry directed at Islam. Both are wrong. I hope you know that. I am a Christian for Christ's sake, albeit not a very enthusiastic one.

Taht is true about W although the issues he spoke on were mostly related to abortion rights which is a non-issue for me. But you are right.

hank
To clarify, you are not my target in this comment. Just the board in general and the attitudes of the detractors. Islam is hammered as well. Religion and politics, age old kindling for heated discussions.

Bush ran on many things I agreed with in 2000 even though I did not vote for him. Small gov, less interventionist foreign policy. 911 played a factor in his turn about but that turn about was too extreme for me to think he never had that worldview. Just selling us a bill of goods that we had against Dems for the Balkans and Somalia.

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 11:21 PM

Whatever softlion. If you think a diehard Republican or Democrat is a bigot then proceed. I don't know what else to tell you.

hank

Just because you are an attorney doesn't mean you HAVE to put words in the mouths of others - I am and I don't. I didn't say anything near to what you referred to above. That just makes me think you're less credible, or maybe you are just having a ****ty nite - whatever.

You put the definition of bigot in pretty quotes, but want to interpret it your own way. I'll agree to disagree.

hank

10-19-2008, 11:22 PM

Communism represent a different set of values, just like Islam. Religions are not neutral entities.

Like "heritage" huh Thor?

Man, I am so glad you don't live in the US. I truly am.

Shocker - never let it be said that Rove is not a political genius. I am more and more convinced that he is a political genius for positioning W the way he did. It was good strategy to be sure. W delivered on so little yet ran on everything in jsut the right way to energize his base while at the same time getting the middle. And that's something McCain has not done. It helps that Obama is a lot more to the right than Kerry was although I think he's pretty even with Gore. But Rove played it perfect.

hank

shocker1

10-19-2008, 11:27 PM

Rove earned his pay for sure. Got me to vote for him in 04 even after I saw through the smoke and mirrors. Obama is his own political genius. He could sell an Eskimo an ice machine and a lifetime contract with the ice company. One reason why I have trouble with him, he says things too well and promises too much. McCain with his background not garnering Powell's endorsement is damaging.

hank

10-19-2008, 11:28 PM

Just because you are an attorney doesn't mean you HAVE to put words in the mouths of others - I am and I don't. I didn't say anything near to what you referred to above. That just makes me think you're less credible, or maybe you are just having a ****ty nite - whatever.

You put the definition of bigot in pretty quotes, but want to interpret it your own way. I'll agree to disagree.

I gave you a dictionary definition from Merriam-Webster. You know as well as I do that bigotry does not apply to Republicans and Democrats. If you think I am putting words in your mouth then so be it. That was not my intent, counselor.

You are an attorney? Bully for you.

I'm not here to be "credible" to you softlion. How could I be "credible" to you anyway?

What does any of this have to do with where this started. Is it bigotry to say "I'll never vote for a muslim" or not? I say yes. What say you?

hank

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 11:56 PM

I gave you a dictionary definition from Merriam-Webster. You know as well as I do that bigotry does not apply to Republicans and Democrats. If you think I am putting words in your mouth then so be it. That was not my intent, counselor.

You are an attorney? Bully for you.

I'm not here to be "credible" to you softlion. How could I be "credible" to you anyway?

What does any of this have to do with where this started. Is it bigotry to say "I'll never vote for a muslim" or not? I say yes. What say you?

hank

I do not view bigotry having anything to do with "political parties" "races" "religions" or any specific class, but instead feel the term is more applicable to acts of intolerance wherein one will not take into account the individual characteristics of a member of some class - what does it matter what the class is when the intolerance is the issue? Certainly, the term (hence the "especially" part of the definition) is more

SoftLion

10-19-2008, 11:58 PM

"I would never vote for any Muslim" = bigotry. "There are very few Muslims that I could envision as having policies in line with my values, but I won't rule out the possibility" = not bigotry in my book. Substitute "democrat" for "Muslim" - how is that different?

seraosha

10-20-2008, 12:15 AM

How did Islam get into this? Jeez, I go to church and come home, watch a movie with the kids, put everyone to bed, read a little and check up on this thread and it's gone to hell.

Even have hank slurring his typing; never a good sign.

Go to bed, see y'all tomorrow.

hank

10-20-2008, 12:19 AM

That's funny seroasha. I'm still waiting on the facts that support why you think Powell is voting for Obama because he's black. Don't let me down.

hank

Thor

10-20-2008, 01:05 AM

Like "heritage" huh Thor?

Man, I am so glad you don't live in the US. I truly am.
You're a poor debater and you and other proponents repeatedly turn to posting gibberish and insults toward not just me but various members after you paint yourselves into corners.

A person's core set of values define a candidate's electability in the eyes of most people. Religious and political affiliations are not neutral enitites, they constitute key indicators.

hank

10-20-2008, 01:23 AM

Thanks for the input Thor. Much appreciated.

hank

MPNFL

10-20-2008, 02:24 AM

Serving in the military does not, in and of itself, qualify someone to lead this country. Ask any Obama supporter about whether they think McCain's service to his country makes him more qualified than Obama to be the next leader of this country.

no, but it does demonstrate someone's loyalty.

philbob

10-20-2008, 03:00 AM

second that

Macs.

10-20-2008, 04:09 AM

That's funny seroasha. I'm still waiting on the facts that support why you think Powell is voting for Obama because he's black. Don't let me down.

hank

Because he's black.

-End-

brainplay

10-20-2008, 04:56 AM

I call BS on everything I believe about every client and case on a daily basis.

If I can't convince myself my clients are right how can I convince anybody else.

Had you done this you would have dropped Obama a long while back.

Lie more creatively? <--(lawyer joke..but then so is Obama).

Colin Powells interview was just surreal. The whole Muslim thing should have been put to bed ages ago. I'm not voting for him for his religion (but then people had issues with Romney about his) which is a lax christian, I'm not voting for him because I don't buy the smooth talking snake oil he's selling.

As to that list of perjoratives you wanted:

1)Bush (because its always his fault even when its not)
2)neo-con (use if racism cannot be applied to debate)
3)nutty christian (because christianity is bad but everything else is misunderstood)
4)nazi comparison (last resort in case of losing debate)
5)warmonger (omit parts about democrats voting records)
6)*insert name calling here* (because its so much easier than just straight debate)
7)facist (most popularly combined with christian)
8)racist (since being opposed to him makes us all closet racists)

bonus points: +2 points for every word thrown into a combo (this is where you really make the points).

Oh noes, you mean the left isn't being nice?! Say it isn't so. Their crap can't stink!

BugHunt

10-20-2008, 08:05 AM

Had you done this you would have dropped Obama a long while back.

Lie more creatively? <--(lawyer joke..but then so is Obama).

Colin Powells interview was just surreal. The whole Muslim thing should have been put to bed ages ago. I'm not voting for him for his religion (but then people had issues with Romney about his) which is a lax christian, I'm not voting for him because I don't buy the smooth talking snake oil he's selling.

As to that list of perjoratives you wanted:

1)Bush (because its always his fault even when its not)
2)neo-con (use if racism cannot be applied to debate)
3)nutty christian (because christianity is bad but everything else is misunderstood)
4)nazi comparison (last resort in case of losing debate)
5)warmonger (omit parts about democrats voting records)
6)*insert name calling here* (because its so much easier than just straight debate)
7)facist (most popularly combined with christian)
8)racist (since being opposed to him makes us all closet racists)

bonus points: +2 points for every word thrown into a combo (this is where you really make the points).

Oh noes, you mean the left isn't being nice?! Say it isn't so. Their crap can't stink!

Its a black thing brainplay you wouldnt understand -

Originally Posted by seraosha http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3630413#post3630413)
It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand.

It's another example of politics being no more deep than skin deep.

Oh wait thats one of your lot playing the race card :roll: