American Airborne Forces during D-day

[Maxhawk8]

I am writing a paper for a history class and i am focusing on the role of the American airborne units in the overall success of operation overlord.

Can anybody give me some general background facts preferably cited and or some good books that could help me out.

thanks

[BAF]

lol enough books,movies,television shows and other stuff about this i think ;)

but here a few tips:

H-hour (you bound to find a lot of this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-hour_(D-day)
and offcourse, everything that goes over operation overlord will have a section about the airborne landing in them

[James]

Stephen Ambrose. Band of Brothers.
Cornelius Ryan. The Longest Day.
Donald Burgett. Currahee.
S.L.A. Marshall. Night Drop: The American Airborne Invasion of Normandy.

These should be helpful.

[Jacknola]

Yes, I can help. In addition to being ex-special forces (abn) in Vietnam, I happen to be the son of the CO of one of the airborne pathfinder teams that jumped first into Normandy. His stick was “Chalk 18” from the 3/508PIR (see picture below). I’ve done extensive research on the American airborne effort in Normandy and am writing an article/book about certain aspects that have never been properly addressed.

The records of the US Airborne in Normandy were gathered by the official historian, General S. L. A. Marshall…and his book, Night Drop, published in 1962 is the finest (abet flawed) detailed account available. The book can be found in any library, or bought on the web for less than $5. BUT….without an excellent map and understanding of the general effort, it will be hard to follow.

Obviously, you need immediate help. So… here it is. First, go to this on line book and read the whole thing if possible. But especially read the introduction and the airborne invasion sections. The US airborne effort had the purpose of protecting the landing on Utah beach. This book will put the whole effort into context and it has good maps. This book is actually the official US Army history of the Utah Beach campaign and therefore, it contains all the official details of the US Airborne operation during the Normandy campaign.

http://www.history.army.mil/BOOKS/WWII/utah/utah.htm (http://www.history.army.mil/BOOKS/WWII/utah/utah.htm)

After you have read that book and understand the context, go to this web site (below). It is BY FAR the finest resource for studying the Normandy invasion that exists in any one spot anywhere in the entire world...I kid you not.

http://www.6juin1944.com/en_index.html (http://www.6juin1944.com/en_index.html)

It has all you need and more for a fabulous paper, from original documents, troop carrier information, flight serial information, DZs, maps, pictures, time line, after action, individual accounts etc. It is not only the finest such site on the internet, it is the best accumulation of historical data I’ve found in any single location anywhere.

Click on “D-Day.” This will take you to a page that has a multitude of options from maps to pictures, timeline, individual testimony, etc. Immediately click on “the Assault.” A map will appear. Position your cursor on the hachured area with the 82 and 101 symbols and click. Voila! You have entered the airborne assault page with more information than you can believe. You will need no other resources for your paper, regardless of detail level. Good luck .

Just for you information, here are some pictures. You also can search this site of the 508 Parachute Infantry Regiment if you get interested. http://www.508pir.org/ (http://www.508pir.org/)

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/42683/2576074800103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2576074800103673033taygih)

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/35059/2511266270103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2511266270103673033sXYCWE)

http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/18190/2161038800103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2161038800103673033sLiLdJ)

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/3042/2293835250103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2293835250103673033WYzUGe)



http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/12930/2985205290103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2985205290103673033bZvJkU)

http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/25977/2841007820103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2841007820103673033qbKavP)

http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/6550/2232470120103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2232470120103673033VaPdLq)

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/12328/2832909360103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2832909360103673033mEeNos)

http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/41592/2207057480103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2207057480103673033cQCmMm)


http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/6375/2854396240103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2854396240103673033mTctDo)

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/41139/2832909360103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2832909360103673033mEeNos)

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/42917/2814563920103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2814563920103673033FHKxhB)

Good luck. Oh... there is a new movie about the airborne pathfinders in Normandy that has been in production for some time. It uses the pathfinder stick of Lt. Williams, "chalk 18," as a guide. The name of the movie is "In the Company of Strangers." Production continues but no release date has been set so far as I know. Here is a picture from the trailor release. It compares the official picture of the stick taken moments before departing for Normandy with the trailor picture from the film.

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/20272/2322541390103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2322541390103673033iFGwwW)

[CMNot]

Great post Jack, thanks for the link.

[MustangPWR]

D-Day by Steven Ambrose is a good source too. Depending on how specific and if you need primary sources or not you could write your paper just off Ambrose's books. Stay as far away as you can from Wikipedia and easybib.com will save you so many headaches.

[ARGAR FORKBEARD]

Hey JACKANOLA excellent link!!!

Thanx.

[Migs]

Don't hot link. Don't act like a douche either.

[Destructlord]

Company of Heroes is a good way to know them, But i dont know how much of it is true?!

[Lefty]

Some 101-centric sources

http://www.101airborneww2.com/index.html

http://www.amazon.com/Rendezvous-Destiny-History-Airborne-Division/dp/1568523726/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224817128&sr=8-2

[I can't think of a name]

Are those Photos of COL Gavin (Who the M113 Gavin is named after?) Hi Hellfish.

Along with Band of Brother there are scores of books by Easy Company men that cover D-Day in their early chapters.

[Jacknola]

Sorry, you are mistaken about GENERAL Gavin's rank during Normandy. The photo is most likely of "Slim Jim," or "jumping Jim," BRIG. GENERAL James M. Gavin, 2nd in command of the 82nd Abn during Normandy.

Gen. Gavin was one of the greatest combat leaders of WWII and was also one of the most respected and...yes... loved ... by his men. He was nominally 2nd in command of the 82nd, but in Operation Boston, he was the "Force A" commander, meaning he commanded the 82nd troops on the ground in the initial stages. At the last minute, Maj. General Ridgeway, 82nd Division commander decided to jump on DZ "O" with the 505th rather than come in with the gliders in the 2nd wave.

General Gavin was one of the fightingest generals in the war...always up front, leading by example, exposing himself to fire. He would question a private in a foxhole about the local situation. As a COl., Gavin commanded the 505th Regiment in Sicily and later in Italy. After the Normandy campaign (82nd Abn was withdrawn about July 10), when Ridgeway was promoted to command of the 1st Allied Air Army, Gavin assumed formal command of the 82nd which he led for the rest of the war.

He was an intellectual solidier who thought deeply about the theories of his craft. His article published in the early 50s entitled something like "Cavalry, and I don't mean horses" which proposed the widespread use of heliocopters for vertical encirclement was the catalyst for the introduction of the air-mobile concept into the US Army.

http://www.combatreform.com/cavalryandidontmeanhorses.htm

Gavin and Ridgeway both resigned in protest over the adoption of the "pentaganol division" concept designed to fight a nuclear war. Gavin was later ambassador to France was was unfortunately rather famous for opposing US ground committments in Vietnam. His thoughts on that subject were taken considerably out of context by the radicals.

The M-113,the Ontos, was named after General Gavin because he designed an armored system the could accompany airborne operations. A heliocopter would have been more appropriate. If you could pick one WWII general to study in depth, Slim Jim would be the one. Here is a good biography and a link to his ground breaking article about "cavalry." I recommend you google the General and find his cretiquie of the Hergerten Forest campagin. It is a model of military writing and a real eye-0pener..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_M._Gavin

I recommend using "Google" as a good resource for confirming the rank of someone as prominent as GEN Gavin when you have a question.

[Dave76]

Are those Photos of COL Gavin (Who the M113 Gavin is named after?) [...]


[...]
The M-113,the Ontos, was named after General Gavin because he designed an armored system the could accompany airborne operations.

The M113 has never been known as "Gavin":

http://home.comcast.net/~genericdad/m113gavin.html (http://home.comcast.net/%7Egenericdad/m113gavin.html)

The M50 "Ontos" is a totally different vehicle, don't know why you mention it in conjunction with the M113.

[Winger]

Yes, I can help. In addition to being ex-special forces (abn) in Vietnam, I happen to be the son of the CO of one of the airborne pathfinder teams that jumped first into Normandy. His stick was “Chalk 18” from the 3/508PIR (see picture below). I’ve done extensive research on the American airborne effort in Normandy and am writing an article/book about certain aspects that have never been properly addressed.

The records of the US Airborne in Normandy were gathered by the official historian, General S. L. A. Marshall…and his book, Night Drop, published in 1962 is the finest (abet flawed) detailed account available. The book can be found in any library, or bought on the web for less than $5. BUT….without an excellent map and understanding of the general effort, it will be hard to follow.

Obviously, you need immediate help. So… here it is. First, go to this on line book and read the whole thing if possible. But especially read the introduction and the airborne invasion sections. The US airborne effort had the purpose of protecting the landing on Utah beach. This book will put the whole effort into context and it has good maps. This book is actually the official US Army history of the Utah Beach campaign and therefore, it contains all the official details of the US Airborne operation during the Normandy campaign.

http://www.history.army.mil/BOOKS/WWII/utah/utah.htm (http://www.history.army.mil/BOOKS/WWII/utah/utah.htm)

After you have read that book and understand the context, go to this web site (below). It is BY FAR the finest resource for studying the Normandy invasion that exists in any one spot anywhere in the entire world...I kid you not.

http://www.6juin1944.com/en_index.html (http://www.6juin1944.com/en_index.html)

It has all you need and more for a fabulous paper, from original documents, troop carrier information, flight serial information, DZs, maps, pictures, time line, after action, individual accounts etc. It is not only the finest such site on the internet, it is the best accumulation of historical data I’ve found in any single location anywhere.

Click on “D-Day.” This will take you to a page that has a multitude of options from maps to pictures, timeline, individual testimony, etc. Immediately click on “the Assault.” A map will appear. Position your cursor on the hachured area with the 82 and 101 symbols and click. Voila! You have entered the airborne assault page with more information than you can believe. You will need no other resources for your paper, regardless of detail level. Good luck .


Jack, when do you expect your book to be out? I'm interested in picking it up if and when it does come out.

[Jacknola]

I'm not sure when I'll finish it. It will likely be reduced to magazine article size in the end. Hopefully the article will address several outstanding issues, including an explanation of the extreme parachute opening shock many troopers experienced and subsequently attributed to TC speed higher than planned. It will also add some thoughts on the dispersion and point out some neglected planning issues related to to terraine.

And by "informed deduction," it will deal with some unknowns... including some initial German defense deployments. These "deductions" will stem from my own personal conclusion from reviewing several hundred individual accounts of the drop, detailed study of the original maps, interviews, a week spent walking the ground, and my experience with small unit warfare. Actually, as I write I'm on my way to a TCG convention reunion in Fayetteville N.C. to see if I can get some questrions about the drop answered.


Re: M-113-ontos. Actually, I don’t know why I used “Ontos” with M-113. I was researching something from Vietnam and my brain cross threaded. But I'm sorry...I understand that the M-113 IS known as the "Gavin." Again, it does not take much computer research to find that on the internet. .

Ontos (below) near Hue, Vietnam.

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/43644/2912583590103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2912583590103673033LHdvNy)

SuperGavin M-133, Iraq theatre.

http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/6767/2727766320103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2727766320103673033hSstHp)

But that doesn’t have much to do with Normandy, Gen-Col Gavin, or writing a paper about the US airborne effort.

[Chalkblock]

There is a book called PARATROOPER. I can not think of who wrote at this time. But it covers from the Test Platoon thru the war.

[Dave76]

[...]
Re: M-113-ontos. Actually, I don’t know why I used “Ontos” with M-113. I was researching something from Vietnam and my brain cross threaded. But I'm sorry...I understand that the M-113 IS known as the "Gavin." Again, it does not take much computer research to find that on the internet. .
[...]

I know this is totally off-topic, but have you even read the link I provided? A certain Mr. Mike Sparks is the one who's to blame for this obvious misdesignation, just to push his personal agenda to promote the M113 as some kind of über-Airborne IFV. It's all explained in the link.
I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or something, but the M113 IS NOT called "Gavin".

[Winger]

I know this is totally off-topic, but have you even read the link I provided? A certain Mr. Mike Sparks is the one who's to blame for this obvious misdesignation, just to push his personal agenda to promote the M113 as some kind of über-Airborne IFV. It's all explained in the link.
I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or something, but the M113 IS NOT called "Gavin".

X2. Sparks is the self appointed crusader and creator of calling the vehicle the Gavin.

A couple of us on this board have had some fun at his expense.

[Persian Snipers]

X2. Sparks is the self appointed crusader and creator of calling the vehicle the Gavin.

A couple of us on this board have had some fun at his expense.


Watch the first few episodes of band of brothers, it'd be a great source of information.

[BugHunt]

I do believe MaxHawk8 has just pulled the mp.net one armed bandit (in asking a real question) and hit JACKPOT :)

If you dont get a A+++ with your paper son you werent trying ;)


Cheers for the links Jacknola!

[Maxhawk8]

Thanks alot for the help guys,

i've started checking out some of those sources, really handy stuff!

[click]

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/6375/2854396240103673033S600x600Q85.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2854396240103673033mTctDo)


Col Vadervoot...He was the guy that was played by John Wayne in the Longest Day right? I read that despite breaking his ankle in the jump he stayed with his men for several weeks. Is that true?

Great pics by the way!woot

[hankpac]

I guess that Sparky guy has never seen an M113 with bullet holes in it.
A 50 BMG or 51 Soviet will penetrate the side wall ( I won't call it armor) then bounce around inside, chewing up soldiers.
It is underpowered, and underarmored.
An M-60 firing 308 Win (7.62 NATO) will eventuall chew through the skin, also. Look at derilict M113 carcasses at ranges, and see what penetrates.
This Sparky must been some kind of idiot.
I never heard it called the Gavin in either the actie duty army or the NG.

[Maxhawk8]

I just finished a rough draft of my paper which is due in about a week. Can you guys look over it and provide some recommendations/changes to the information? thanks

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcvxqtts_379dgmnvjdf

[Chalkblock]

Maxhawk8

Paper looks good, I only did a quick read. I did notice britian had a small B. In the first paragraph.
Onther then that it looked good I going to read it again to better read it as it interest me a lot.

[CMNot]

Likewise; I was writing my own essays last night so didn't have the inner strength to look at anymore when I was done.

I've glanced over it, looks good so far - although .doc to .html converters I know from experience screw up writing formats.

My only advice, in the vein of Chalkblock, is to proof read everything multiple times.

[Chalkblock]

Several years ago I had the honor of making friends with my fathers foreman where he worked. The gentleman was in the Test Platoon that was formed in early 1941 and later the start of the Airborne soldier.
His name was Aubrey Eberhardt or as he was known then Private First Class Aubrey Eberhardt* later serve with the 503d PIR.
Eberhardt was also credited with being the first soldier to jump and yell GERONIMO.
Eberhardt had been out drinking on post at the beer garden and his buddies and him had been talking about the jump the next day. This was to their first Mass jump. His buddies were saying that they all would be so scared that they would not be able to speak. Eberhardt said he ould not be scared and would yell when he jumped. His buddies replied back what are you going to yell and his reply was GERONIMO. Being 6 foot 9 inches tall, his buddies did not push the matter. The next day word has made the rounds and everyone was listening and Eberhardt jumped into AIRBORNE HISTORY.
He also told me that he was so focused on his jump, that he could hear the bands snap as the chute deployed.
He is way I joined the Army and ended up serving for 22 Years 6 Months and 14 days in the Army. Not Airborne, but Infantry and Air Assualt.

The 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501st_Parachute_Infantry_Regiment)'s motto and slogan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo_(exclamation)) was named after him. In 1940, the night before their first mass jump, U.S. paratroopers at Fort Benning watched the film Geronimo (1939 film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Geronimo_(1939_film)&action=edit&redlink=1), in which the actor playing Geronimo yells his name as he leaps from a high cliff into a river, depicting a real-life escape Geronimo successfully attempted in which he jumped off Medicine Bluff at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, into the Medicine Creek with his Cadillac horse. Private Aubrey Eberhardt announced he would shout the name when he jumped from the airplane to prove he was not scared. The trend has since caught on elsewhere, becoming widely associated with any sort of high jump in popular culture. This unit was the first parachute battalion of the U.S. Army.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo#cite_note-12)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo#cite_note-13)

[Elfstone44]

Several years ago I had the honor of making friends with my fathers foreman where he worked. The gentleman was in the Test Platoon that was formed in early 1941 and later the start of the Airborne soldier.
His name was Aubrey Eberhardt or as he was known then Private First Class Aubrey Eberhardt* later serve with the 503d PIR.
Eberhardt was also credited with being the first soldier to jump and yell GERONIMO.
Eberhardt had been out drinking on post at the beer garden and his buddies and him had been talking about the jump the next day. This was to their first Mass jump. His buddies were saying that they all would be so scared that they would not be able to speak. Eberhardt said he ould not be scared and would yell when he jumped. His buddies replied back what are you going to yell and his reply was GERONIMO. Being 6 foot 9 inches tall, his buddies did not push the matter. The next day word has made the rounds and everyone was listening and Eberhardt jumped into AIRBORNE HISTORY.
He also told me that he was so focused on his jump, that he could hear the bands snap as the chute deployed.
He is way I joined the Army and ended up serving for 22 Years 6 Months and 14 days in the Army. Not Airborne, but Infantry and Air Assualt.

The 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501st_Parachute_Infantry_Regiment)'s motto and slogan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo_%28exclamation%29) was named after him. In 1940, the night before their first mass jump, U.S. paratroopers at Fort Benning watched the film Geronimo (1939 film) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Geronimo_%281939_film%29&action=edit&redlink=1), in which the actor playing Geronimo yells his name as he leaps from a high cliff into a river, depicting a real-life escape Geronimo successfully attempted in which he jumped off Medicine Bluff at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, into the Medicine Creek with his Cadillac horse. Private Aubrey Eberhardt announced he would shout the name when he jumped from the airplane to prove he was not scared. The trend has since caught on elsewhere, becoming widely associated with any sort of high jump in popular culture. This unit was the first parachute battalion of the U.S. Army.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo#cite_note-12)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo#cite_note-13)



FYI, 508th PIR yelled "Diablo" during a jump. Their patch of course had a jumping devil on it. See www.508pir.org.

I've always associated "Geronimo" with the 504th. Guess I stand corrected.

[Chalkblock]

FYI, 508th PIR yelled "Diablo" during a jump. Their patch of course had a jumping devil on it. See www.508pir.org (http://www.508pir.org).

I've always associated "Geronimo" with the 504th. Guess I stand corrected.

Until then I did not know were the idea for yelling Geronimo came from and it turns out a lot of Die Hard Para-Troopers do not know either.

I heard a joe once about Canadian Airborne and Geronimo

The US Army was teaching some Canadian Troops how to jump. The Jump Master instructed them to follow everything that had be taught to them over the last few weeks, but to remeber to yell GERONIMO when the exited the plane. Plane takes off and the doors open everyone is up and ready. Green light comes on and everyone exits. Jump Master shuts the doors and sits down. A minute later he hears knocking on the door from out side. Upon opening the door the jump master see a Canadian soldier flapping his arms. The Canadian Soldiers yells to the Jump mater: WHAT WAS THAT INDIANS NAME AGAIN.....:)woot

[Elfstone44]

The topic was "American Airborne Forces in D-Day." Neither of those kibbitzing comments have anything to do with that topic.

[Jacknola]

It’s embarrassing for anyone with even half an appreciation of the history of Persian culture to see how delusional the entire country and these people have become.

"BTW i like american-english policy in the WWII, Send soviet to heavily defended areas and berlin to suffer heavy casualties and take the easy parts for themselves! very clever!"

This belongs in the same category with the home-built Iranian jet fighters, submarines, etc. And their backyard mad-scientist amateur nuclear program? What is most likely to happen is that the incompetent Iranians will accidently set off a blast killing a truly significant number of their countrymen.., and then we all will have the unpleasant experience of seeing Amajackass crying of TV blaming the evil juice and the great satan.

What a bunch of losers. And the other illusionary post, about "D-Day in the Balkans", ...the Soviets vehemently were opposed to it because it would interfere with their plans… and it is very likely Tito and the communist gurrillas would have militarily opposed the allies. It was a dead end strategically in any case.

Back to the subject, I wonder how “we” did on the paper? Did we get a passing grade?

[Elfstone44]

I find the posts by the Serbian Freak77power and and the Persian Destructlord to be blasphemous and off topic and really insulting. I've asked Hollis to delete them. Open your own Damned lines about the proposed invasion in Slovenia or your Irano-xenophobic-paranoic crap view of history...leave this thread to the US Airborne in Normandy.

[Jacknola]

In the interest of closure, here is a late add for those who followed the thread. I asked Max how he did on his paper and what education level the paper was for. Here is his reply...

"Sorry to get back to you so late, i got a solid A on the paper. It's for a college level history course in HS (IB HISTORY)"

I'm glad to hear it. I replied that he is probably way ahead of the average battlefield tourist in his knowledge.

When he walks the battlefields of Normandy one day in the future, he will already understand the hot, desperate actions at Hill 30, XYZ, Neuville au Plain, Chef du Pont, La Fiere Causeway, St. Mere Eglise, Carantan, Dead Man's Corner, Baupte, Pretot... all US Airborne milestones in Normandy.

Seeing the ground those men fought for, he will probably say... "holy ****!" just like I did. Congratulations Max.

[westie]

Another book that would be good would be utah Beach, The Amphibious Landing And Airborne Operations on D-Day by Joseph Balkoski.

[John R.]

These three manuscripts may help you:

http://www.history.army.mil/documents/WWII/Cassidy/cassidy.htm

http://www.history.army.mil/documents/WWII/506-Nor/506-nor.htm

http://www.history.army.mil/documents/WWII/Lock/lock.htm