FAVOriTE SF

[=75th=RANGER]

Wud up

[Vance]

*Waits for funny jokes about Delta Force*

[globe]

*Waits for funny jokes about Delta Force*

It don't exists. It's just some lousy movies and computer games.

[theGHOST]

What??..........1 it wasnt a lousy movie and the Delta Force exist.

DELTA FORCE

[/quote]DELTA FORCE

The US Army's Combat Applications Group or 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta (Airborne), more commonly known as Delta Force or just Delta, is one of the world's premier counter terrorist units. Although initially formed as a dedicated counter terrorist and hostage rescue unit, Delta is also tasked with specialized missions that require small units. These missions would include special reconnaissance, security for US assets in high risk areas, hunting and arresting fugitives and war criminals outside the US ("snatches") and even assassination of enemy military leaders. They often operate with the Army's 75th Ranger Regiment and the Navy's DevGroup.

History

Delta was formed in 1977 by the legendary Special Forces commando Col. Charles "Chargin' Charlie" Beckwith. In 1962 Beckwith, who was then a Special Forces sergeant, was chosen to spend a year with 22 SAS under an exchange program. During his tour he became aware of some serious shortcomings in the way the US Special Forces functioned.

At that time soldiers were assigned to Special Forces instead of volunteering. This stood in sharp contrast to the SAS where volunteers underwent an extremely strenuous selection process with high attrition rates to earn their place in the Regiment. This method ensured only the most qualified and highly motivated men made it to the unit. Beckwith also noticed a difference in the behavior of the SAS men compared with his US Army spit-and-polish style. Beckwith recalls in his book, Delta Force, how he walked into the barracks to meet his troop for the first time only to see their kit strewn about and two SAS men brewing tea right in the middle of the room! His first instinct was to "clean up" his troop but he soon learned that among professionals who respect each other salutes, rank and spit-and-polish were not necessary.

Beckwith served with 22 SAS until he was evacuated from the jungles of Malaya with a severe infection. After he returned home, Beckwith set about trying to incorporate his experiences into the Special Forces but he met with stiff resistance and suspicion from his superiors. Nevertheless, he continued to advocate the practices of the SAS - like the four man patrol as opposed to the Special Forces 12 man A Team - every chance he got. Finally, as a result of the plague of terrorist incidents in the early to mid seventies, the US Army began to consider putting together an elite unit to combat terrorism. Beckwith felt his type of unit, small and highly specialized, would be ideal for the job. He dug out the proposal for the unit, which he wrote on his return trip to the US from Britain, and went about trying to gain approval.

Almost immediately internal politics and inter group rivalry reared their ugly heads. Special Forces felt there was no need to form a new unit, but instead their own men could be trained in counter terrorist warfare. Even the Rangers jumped in saying that the mission should be theirs. However, Beckwith felt that a dedicated unit should exist that specialized and trained exclusively in the black arts of counter terrorist warfare. Eventually after months of bickering, Beckwith finally formed 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta. It was still only after a few more months of struggling that Special Forces commanders and, later, the Rangers allowed their best men to show up for selection.
[/quote]

[theGHOST]

DELTA FORCE

The US Army's Combat Applications Group or 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta (Airborne), more commonly known as Delta Force or just Delta, is one of the world's premier counter terrorist units. Although initially formed as a dedicated counter terrorist and hostage rescue unit, Delta is also tasked with specialized missions that require small units. These missions would include special reconnaissance, security for US assets in high risk areas, hunting and arresting fugitives and war criminals outside the US ("snatches") and even assassination of enemy military leaders. They often operate with the Army's 75th Ranger Regiment and the Navy's DevGroup

Got tHAT right off the NAVY SEAL site

[Ichhabe]

Best SF-forces in the world are the SALVATION ARMY, period!!!

And they have the best motto aswell.

[tahoe]

Ghost, it was a joke...you need a sense of humor. Until a few years ago, Delta was a black program, and its existence was not officially recognized.

[Beowulf]

Green berets are awesome they are fuzzy....and green....and you can wear them on your head to keep it warm. You can care for your green beret by shaving it and shaping it.... it's definitely the best.
-b

[hood]

I'm going to have to go with Ichbabe on this one. The Salvation Army sends their soldiers behind enemy lines and they take various forms to disguise their legions. Often they look like Santa Claus, while doing their dirty work, slowly degrading the US economy by taking your quarters and nickels during Christmas time. To end out, I'll deliver a really bad pun. "Delta makes all the difference."

[rob]

"delta force does not excist, yet odly enough they do recrute." quote from the book delta force.

the best is would have to say that there are 5 really high up there

delta
grom
devgru
astralian sas
british sas

as for which is the best they all train together and all are very similar

the grene berets are very good too. they had a school in vietnam where the final test to pass was actually a mission behind enemy lines where the instructor tried to make contact with the enemy. that is one test you dont want to fail.

[Alleycat]

Navy SEALs.

[ScoutRanger]

the grene berets are very good too. they had a school in vietnam where the final test to pass was actually a mission behind enemy lines where the instructor tried to make contact with the enemy. that is one test you dont want to fail.


Recondo

[jokiemastah]

Delta is an airline.

[Andy]

What is with German KSK? The american Goverment said '' The German KSK is better than the british SAS! '' And I think thats right!
But i like the SAS too, and the Delta Forces is not bad :petting:

Andy

[ibstolidude]

the chairborne ranger with reclindo tab...(that is the guy critic every operator ou there actually doing it)....
the only way to go

[Gringo]

U can't have Delta and Green Beret's (they shouldn't be called that). As Delta and Special Forces aren't like each other. It would have been more appropriate Delta and SEALs, but still not appropriate as they r both american.

[Zach R.]

I don't have a #1 favorate. Mine is a tie between CAG and Devgroup. But here's some advice. NEVER ask what the best CT team is in the world. You'll be eaten alive. But if it ever does boil downto it. I believe that it's tied between Delta, Devgroup, GROM, British SAS, and Rainbow 6(Haha, just joking).

[andrew45c]

Hands down the British sf are the worlds premeir special forces and set the standard to which all other sf try to achive altough SBS are infact probably better than SAS due to the fact that they are less publicly recognised and so they get most of the black ops and have been known to do work for the CIA, chosen over Delta or Seals, because they recognise the SBS's profesionalism and skill , can do everything SAS can do and more plus the training is longer and more tough. Plus they have to be RM commandos in the first place so they have to complete the longest and toughest basic infantry training in the world(30 weeks basic).

It has also beem knowm for Delta and Seals on loan to the SAS to fail the SAS/SBS training.

So i would say that the Best SF in the world SBS has been left out which is a shame.

I would say that
1.SBS
2.SAS
3.Delta Force (afterall they where founded by a serving SAS member)

[USAF G]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of these "my dad can beat up your dad" kind of loaded polls. It's all subjective, especially when one is asking a bunch of guys who have never even met A real operator, let alone a cross section of the different services. I say loaded, because there are a whole lot of high speed units left out. I might say PJs are the best, that's because that's who I am exposed to on a regular basis, however, I don't know any Special Forces (I do know one former SF guy) and I don't know any SEALS or any of the other units out there. I do get the impression, from the real operators I talk to, that they all cross train, they are all superbe at their individual missions, and they are all top notch. So when someone says "DEVGRU is the best special operations group (or whatever is their pet unit), I tent to think they don't know what they are talking about. :roll:

One more thing, the only SF is Army, all others are SOF. OK, rant complete.
G

[digitalghost]

I like DELTA more than SF A-Detachment teams because DELTA does more Direct Action(DA) missions such as hostage rescue and not non-DA stuff like training foreign guerillas to attack their nation and being diplomats and etc. screw that I like DIRECT ACTION-- Just like what 75th Rangers and Infantry does--- I dont know why some people are so fascinated over units like SF/SEALs when infantry gets to do more DA than SF--- I bet some of these adolescents "didnt know" about the unconventional warfare part or the training and dealing with other nations locals/military etc.

[Beowulf]

sigh...... :cantbeli:

[JiJoMacLE45]

I think those PsyOps guys are so awesome. Do they wear khaki cargo pants and Oakley's like Delta cause like getting inside people heads and stuff is like so next level. They're so dreamy with their loudspeakers and what not.

[Dmitri]

It would have been more appropriate Delta and SEALs,
How are seals more like delta??

I bet some of these adolescents "didnt know
you must be talking about yourself

I dont know why some people are so fascinated over units like SF/SEALs when infantry gets to do more DA than SF
shows how much you know... seals don't usually do any guerilla training, and believe me sf gets to see way more action than infantry grunt, plus they have to lead the guerillas they were teaching into combat also...

[digitalghost]

seals don't usually do any guerilla training

Really? Know what rogeing intenral defense is? Training foregin military-- I'd rather do DA


Navy Special Warfare mission areas include unconventional warfare, direct action, combating terrorism, special reconnaissance, foreign internal defense, information warfare, security assistance, counter-drug operations, personnel recovery and hydrographic reconnaissance.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/navspecwarcom.htm

I tend to categorize training guerilas/training military into one category basiclaly TRAINING OTHER PEOPLE which is not what id like to do


and believe me sf gets to see way more action than infantry grunt, plus they have to lead the guerillas they were teaching into combat also

Maybe, but are they doing DA action or UW action? Basically SF doenst do as much DA as infantry.... Sure they do DA but baisically:

SF does:

UW + DA

Infantry does:

DA

[SABER 2-3]

the chairborne ranger with reclindo tab...(that is the guy critic every operator ou there actually doing it)....
the only way to go


AMEN. Lets make sure that to many people know every thing about these guys and then will pick their operations apart from the comfort of our own homes!

[Dmitri]

seals don't usually do any guerilla training


Really?
Obviously you don't know what "usually" means, including everything else you are talking about


SF does:

UW + DA

Infantry does:

DA
Yes, the do UW, but that doesn't mean they do less DA...

I'd rather do DA

Go ahead..

[ibstolidude]

Digital -
Beowulf wrote it best when he wrote - sigh..

Hey join the infantry then deploy and sit in the wire overseas....

Infantry has a job not all can do, but it is by NO means even at the top of the most deployed or used units in the inventory.

I know SOF reservists and national gaurdsman that have more time down range per year that most AD 11b and 11bp. If you want that kind of life in the infantry go 75th and put or shut up - but the reality is you are guessing on what you don't know.

The standard infantry soldier is not nearly as deployed as many of the other troops in the ranks, nor are they given the freedom to travel outside the wire when they are. The reality is you may get deployed but it is likely that you won't or you will end up spening the bulk of your time sitting on your ass. per man, per unit v/s the same ration in the army the standard infantrymans optemp for "in the box" deployments isn't that high - unless you count JRTC, NTC, brightstar, cobra gold and ofcourse the Ft Campbell - "operation trash eagle" (post clean up) and much of the deployemnts in past years, not so much the last 2 years optemp, but not the fives years prior - unless you count sitting in the behind the wire in kosovo, bosnia or macedonia - or North Korea DA.


I AM NOT knocking the infantry - an army is useless with out it. And ultimately they are the force the is expected to walk into the valley (usually when everyone knows they are coming); but your comments are not on the mark. (you stated that SF are not infantry?? - I wonder why the field behind the tab and patch is blue - and they are authorized the eib/cib?)

You have also in other posts commented that you need no education and intelligence to be in the infantry - VERY very wrong - the multitasking skills needed in the infantry is in high demand, with ever more complicated equipment and TTP's being employed and used by those forces - overall the current trend is for the infantry to keep getting smaller, faster, and smarter.

[Dmitri]

hey SF are not infantry - I wonder why the field behind the tab and patch is blue - and they are authorized the eib/cib?)
How are they not infantry??? I might be missing something, but what are they if not infantry????

[ibstolidude]

Don't ask me that was posted as a question to digital
there is that better

[SABER 2-3]

Whom ever said that you need little intelligence to be Infantry should remember that a certain leader of the British (WW2 time frame) was made to join the Cav. due to his rejection from the Infantry because of low test scores.
The Infantry will alwawys be the Queen of Battle not the Silent Professionals.

[Saranof]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of these "my dad can beat up your dad" kind of loaded polls. It's all subjective, especially when one is asking a bunch of guys who have never even met A real operator, let alone a cross section of the different services. I say loaded, because there are a whole lot of high speed units left out. I might say PJs are the best, that's because that's who I am exposed to on a regular basis, however, I don't know any Special Forces (I do know one former SF guy) and I don't know any SEALS or any of the other units out there. I do get the impression, from the real operators I talk to, that they all cross train, they are all superbe at their individual missions, and they are all top notch. So when someone says "DEVGRU is the best special operations group (or whatever is their pet unit), I tent to think they don't know what they are talking about. :roll:


I hooah that.

[Gringo]

I think I might and start a thread asking "Where r u from?" Coz, that is what these "Which countries army is better?" r pretty much asking. There maybe the one or two peeps that would vote for some other countries army. The majority of the votes r Delta possibly coz there r a load of americans here.
No offence meant by that.

[ibstolidude]

well I think Delta force is a far more superior game to play...

[digitalghost]

screw all this confusing **** all i know is that id rather do 101st/75th infantry DIRECT ACTION stuff instead of doing SF stuff like training guerillas and being diplomats wiht beards speaking different languages and getting guerillas to attack saddam etc. uhh not me but it still is VERY COOL dont get me wrong i just like what 101st/75th does more than SF thats all--- One thing about SF you can wear wahtever gear you want and not get chewed out by brass for wearing a differnet vest or customizing your BDUs SF style

[Beowulf]

You.......are a moron

[digitalghost]

no you're a moron :lol:

[Nawlins]

Way to further prove your ignorance. What are you, 13? Grow up.

:bash:

[ibstolidude]

digital you have NO IDEA what those units typically do...
What have then done in the time post GW1 to US invasion of afghanistan?

- How does peacekeeping in the balkans sound? is that DA enough for you
- or maybe peacekeeping in haiti - after taking over for the marines ?
- In Honduras the 101st provided humanitarian assistance. They sent JTF-BRAVO, a helicopter battalion, to take supplies to the villages that are inaccessible by roads. By using Chinooks or large cargo helicopters the supplies can easily be delivered to National Guard Units who can then use them to build schools, houses, ect.... The division has units there often

- During 1994 a flood of Cuban migrants were making their way to the US by any means possible. Many of them were intercepted by the US Coast Guard and taken to US installations in Panama. Within the holding camps disorder and riots broke out causing some US service members to be injured. Because of the 101st ability to react quickly the were called upon to restore order. In Jan. 1995 two battalions ( First and Third ) from the 502nd infantry were sent to Panama for operation "Safe Passage". By the end of the operation 3,500 migrants had be safely escorted for processing.

The 101 has a proud lineage and excellant history but like them for what they; are not what you make them up to be - after all they only do DA according to you. -

EYES LEFT

[theGHOST]

Digital shut up man, SF, 101st, 82nd, 4th ID etc.............they all do there part, in there own way. By you saying the 101st does more then SF thats juss being stupid, they both have there parts soo stop your bull****. SF dont just train guerillas jeez, for example the JTF-2..........they were on mountains in Afghanistan feeding information for army units on the ground.

[Trigger]

...apparently 'Hooked On Phonics' hasn't made it to Ontario yet. :roll:

[digitalghost]

hey no one talks to the digitalghost like that. i will haunt you at night and then we will see who has a real sense of humor then.

anyway--- then I say SEVENTY FIFTH RANGER REGIMENT Then! 75th does more DA stuff than SF--- You dont see 75th training guerillas and being diplomats--- 75th and DELTA! Delta is SF but do surgical DA like hostage rescue but dont train guerillas and diplomating

but hey you better watch your tone soldier digital ghost will haunt you becuase thats what i do best

[Trigger]

OMG!!!
So Hood, when does the pre-adolescent forum 'Officially' open?
We've got a whole lot of little rocket scientists in here lately :cantbeli:

[digitalghost]

Hey trigger perhaps you should consider posting some relevent-if not helpful intelligence on the subject at hand instead of critisizing other people and their beleifs and arousing resentment :lol: I'd recommend reading HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671723650/qid=1058311430/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-6045945-2970447

Heres an excerpt JUST FOR YOU:


I studied the life of Abraham Lincoln for
ten years and devoted all of three years to writing and
rewriting a book entitled Lincoln the Unknown. I believe
I have made as detailed and exhaustive a study of
Lincoln’s personality and home life as it is possible for
any being to make. I made a special study of Lincoln’s
method of dealing with people. Did he indulge in criticism?
Oh, yes. As a young man in the Pigeon Creek
Valley of Indiana, he not only criticized but he wrote
letters and poems ridiculing people and dropped these
letters on the country roads where they were sure to be
found. One of these letters aroused resentments that
burned for a lifetime.

Even after Lincoln had become a practicing lawyer in
Springfield, Illinois, he attacked his opponents openly
in letters published in the newspapers. But he did this
just once too often.

In the autumn of 1842 he ridiculed a vain, pugnacious
politician by the name of James Shields. Lincoln lamned
him through an anonymous letter published in
Springfield Journal. The town roared with laughter.
Shields, sensitive and proud, boiled with indignation.
He found out who wrote the letter, leaped on his horse,
started after Lincoln, and challenged him to fight a duel.
Lincoln didn’t want to fight. He was opposed to dueling,
but he couldn’t get out of it and save his honor. He was
given the choice of weapons. Since he had very long
arms, he chose cavalry broadswords and took lessons in
sword fighting from a West Point graduate; and, on the
appointed day, he and Shields met on a sandbar in the
Mississippi River, prepared to fight to the death; but, at
the last minute, their seconds interrupted and stopped
the duel.

That was the most lurid personal incident in Lincoln’s
life. It taught him an invaluable lesson in the art of dealing
with people. Never again did he write an insulting
letter. Never again did he ridicule anyone. And from that
time on, he almost never criticized anybody for anything.

[FallenAngel]

I doubt Digital has the brains to be an infantryman. He's probably be made latrine officer or something

and just in the God-forsaken-mistake that would put him in the infantry, I got two words for you- "cannon fodder" :D

[Trigger]

Hey digital, why don't you take a look around, you'll find that this whole 'what's your favorite SF organization' thread has been started and re-started way too often. It leads to a bunch of juveniles playing 'speckles'* with each other. Secondly, I'll post whatever the hell I want and criticize whenever I feel like it. And finally, since I'm not really going to run for President in 2008, I won't worry about winning friends and influencing people. Instead I'll quote Al Pacino from 'Scarface':
Why don't you try stickin' yo head up yo ass and see eef eet fits

[digitalghost]

Do you know the definition of an opinion?

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

[digitalghost]

Trigger: Thats a profanity violation----- Im reporting you to the upper chain of command

**My previous message was directed at my beloved friend FALLENANGEL

[theGHOST]

Naw, Latrine OffiCer too gOod for him. He'll prolly juss be moppin the bathRooMS on a shiP. Dats it.

[digitalghost]

Hey theGHOST: Same goes for you:

Do you know the definition of an opinion?

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

[digitalghost]

hey guys i have some errands to run--- i'll come back and play later ok? bye bye ;)

[Beowulf]

yeah we understand your boyfriend has you on knee-pad duty again...it's cool, do your business......polesmoker
-b

[Trigger]

theGHOST wrote via Private Message:

You FuKKIN FAgGET, you think i'm typing my **** like that cuz i dont kno how to spell it. Your fukking dumb. I can TyPe tha way i wanna bitch.......soo shut your fukking mouth fag.

ahhh....so nice to get love letters from my fans. Little man, you're not worth the effort. rofl

[Nawlins]

Hmmm... noticing similarities and wondering if somewhere in the world "ghost" really means "obnoxious a**hole." Good grief.

Thanks for the laughs, fellas.

I agree with those of you who think topics like this one are pointless... it ends up just being a pissing contest. They're all the best at whatever their job is, that's why they're "Special". Last time I checked, they weren't just letting in any old Joe.

[JKD]

Naw NAW YaLL Be getinGG it ALL wrong yO. TheBESt is the jEdi KnigTs yo. CuZ thEy be weaRin whateva they bE WAntin DoGG. My dAd wuz a Jedi KnIght and hE could bEaT up yo Dad aNdJedis DonTBe TRAinIN No GErILAs. ThEY dO DirECt ACTIon stuff. Fo reAL. I JusT BE wiShin JEDIS had SUM M4SOPMODS Yo insted o LITE SaBers. M4s are Da KooleSt!

Um, yeah sorry guys just trying to fit in around here. :D :roll:

[theGHOST]

Seriously TriGGer, that has **** to do wit this ToPiC. I sAId that to you not n e body else. At least you could've responded back idiot.

[Seraphim]

yeah we understand your boyfriend has you on knee-pad duty again...it's cool, do your business......polesmoker
-b

rofl rofl rofl

[Andyman]

Ever notice how "hush hush" the Canadian JTF2 are I mean i havent seen one pic of JTF2 soldiers that dont have their faces blurred or something. Even in that inside Canada's elite special forces book I kinda forget what its called but anyways all the soldiers faces are covered. Also I mean until a few years ago the Canadian government denied the existence of such a task force and to this day are very hush hush about their operations. The Americans however are very open with information about who they are and what they do. I'm not knockin the Americans but dont they think that by revealing any information about their SF troops they allow for certain info to be obtained by for lack of a better word "enemies" of the US.

[Nawlins]

Good point about the JTF2, I had never even heard of them... but I'm no expert.

I wouldn't say that the American SOF gives out just "any information." IMHO they give enough to satisfy the media hounds and keep as much as they can to themselves. But when you're in the elite groups of the largest military force, it's kind of difficult to keep completely out of sight.

Just my opinion. Anybody have info to back that up?

[rob]

hell i didnt even know canada had a army. seriously though, because they are part of a more famous and active army i think it be natureal that more is know. but i do think the army should just shut up the media. i dont mean withhold all information but dont let them stay with troops and make clear boundries that are not to be crossed.

[digitalghost]

things are getting hot in here----- dont worry guys i'll be back

hey Hood-- STOP THE VIOLENCE!

[Mortimer]

Lets get back on topic

The Australian SASR had the highest kill ratio in the Afghan war, comapred to the US and UK soldiers there.( i am 90% sure of this statement :) )

There was also one battle where they saved a whole lot of US grunts who got ambushed on the side of a hill, the SASR called in a perfect air strike(with the help of US pilots i might add).

AUS SASR are the best!

[theGHOST]

Andyman here's a picture of the JTF-2........

http://cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/gfx/apcbcnewsonline_afg_2984006.jpg

The Canadian government is very quite and sensitive about the JTF-2, when that photo was leaked to the media the Minister of Defense lost his job because he did not tell the Prime Minister that we had prisoners, and then the Media as usual started making a fuss over it blada blada therefore it lead to the firing of the Defense Minister.

The only information the public get from the the JTF-2 is from the American military.

This is off the CBC site


We learned just before Christmas that JTF2 was part of a seven-nation operation called Task Force K-Bar during the campaign in Afghanistan. Task Force K-Bar took part in 42 reconnaissance and surveillance missions, as well as what U.S. military authorities call “direct action” operations. JTF2 soldiers were part of commando operations that killed at least 115 Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters and captured 107 senior Taliban leaders over a six-month period.

JTF2 commandos led a mountain climb in Afghanistan to reach a high-altitude observation post. The Canadians also entered caves looking for enemy forces and intelligence. One of their missions, called Operation Anaconda, took place last March when JTF2 soldiers stationed themselves high in the Afghanistan mountains to feed information to army units on the ground.

The Canadians worked with U.S. Navy commandos and elite forces from Australia. U.S. Navy Commander Kerry Metz, director of operations for Task Force K-Bar, praised the work of the “foreign” commandos to members of Congress.

“We were fortunate to have the finest special operators from a coalition of seven nations,” Metz said. “We challenged our operators to conduct missions in some of the most hostile environments ever operated in. For example, we had special reconnaissance teams operating in the mountains of Afghanistan above 10,000 feet for extended periods without resupply.”

I guess we fortunate that we have that information.........

[Dmitri]

latrine officer or something

how about the chief of latrine staff under the direct supervision of an E-2.

Digitalghost, you know, if every person on this board tells you that you are stupid, naive, immature and don't know anything about military besides reading a couple of questionalble books, you might wanna think about it and consider what is being said...

dont worry guys i'll be back

don't bother..

[ScoutRanger]

Hands down the British sf are the worlds premeir special forces and set the standard to which all other sf try to achive altough SBS are infact probably better than SAS due to the fact that they are less publicly recognised and so they get most of the black ops and have been known to do work for the CIA, chosen over Delta or Seals, because they recognise the SBS's profesionalism and skill , can do everything SAS can do and more plus the training is longer and more tough. Plus they have to be RM commandos in the first place so they have to complete the longest and toughest basic infantry training in the world(30 weeks basic).

It has also beem knowm for Delta and Seals on loan to the SAS to fail the SAS/SBS training.

So i would say that the Best SF in the world SBS has been left out which is a shame.

I would say that
1.SBS
2.SAS
3.Delta Force (afterall they where founded by a serving SAS member)

This post is loaded.

Number one; If SBS is so 'less recognized' maybe you can point out why they are known to do missions for the CIA, chosen over SFOD or SEAL's.

Number two; SBS doesn't do more. They do different. RM may have a longer and tougher basic infantry training but I fail to recognize how that makes SBS better, care to explain? Because their target recruits are better trained? What, do you think SFOD or SAS recruit green recruits right out of boot?

Number three; Delta Force was not founded by a serving SAS member. Last I checked Col. Charlie Beckwith served in the US ARMY SF before he created and commanded Delta Force. He did attend an SF/SAS exchange twenty years before hand and witnessed the Malaysian conflict first hand with the SAS.

[ScoutRanger]

Hands down there really is no best. You cheat yourself and the unit every time you say such a thing.

[theGHOST]

WeLL Ranger, it says FAVORITE SF..........guess ppl have to argue who's the best.

[theGHOST]

FAVORITE

[digitalghost]

Who gives a defecation(which means "**** "defecation is an exellent alternative I must say, and most politically correct extremists would agree) so let me start again......

------------

Who gives a defecation if people tell me im wrong or if I dont know anything? One should question what the hecks important to me when saying that. If I say:

"Hey I like 75th Ranger Regiment and will join. Why? Becuase I want to join a unit which does 100% DIRECT ACTION High Speed missions unlike infantry who does YES DA but unfortunately humanitarian and peacekeeping; In fact I saw a 101st soldier on this site policing the traffic LMAO----- And I dont want to join SF becuase they dont do 100% DA either they train other people and do dipomatic stuff and thats not what i want to do"

Now if I said that what i know or dont know doenst even matter--- what i found out is this:

Infantry = DA + Humanitarian/PeaceKeeping
Rangers = DA
SF = DA + UW
Delta = SURGICAL DA(Hostage Rescue)

As you can see the level of "DA" eliteness is 1)Delta 2)Rangers yes sounds like BHD but who can say that SF does a better job at surgical DA(hostage rescue) than DELTA or that army infantry(101, 82, etc.) does better DA than the rangers----- Its all about DA and my first selection would be 1)RANGERS then 2)DELTA if possible

Take MOGADISHU for example-- Why dindt DOD send SF instead of DELTA? Because DELTA did better Surgical DA than SF. Why dindt DOD send 101st Airborne instead of the Rangers? Becuase rangers did better DA

Also, why make fun of people and call each other names? Dont you guys have any morals and ethics? Why put someone down and arouse resentment and hatred just to get your self esteem up? Why not corect their mistakes, praise them and help them out with knowledge instead of getting hostile evil and angry. Thats bad.. and you know what I think---- YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[theGHOST]

Aren't Rangers special forces?

[digitalghost]

Negative, they are SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES(SOF); ARMY SPECIAL FORCES(SF) are the U.S. Army Special Forces Command's 1 of 4 Special Forces Operational Detachments which is "Special Forces Operational Detachment A (SFOD A)" or "A Teams" the B+C Detachments are something else which you can read about here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arsfc.htm

The newest "D" detachment referred to as "Delta" is of course our favourite AntiTerrorist Unit :D

***EDIT ----- Rangers are also 1 of 4 Units in the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC); The other 3 are:

1st Special Forces Operational Detachment / Delta - "Delta Force"

Naval Special Warfare Development Group - (SEAL Team Six)

160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Airborne) - "Night Stalkers"

http://www.specialoperations.com/Units/JSOC/default2.htm

Hey I just figured out that all the "trigger pullers" in JSOC are my favourite DA units :D Except for DEVGROUP of course becuase they like the water too much and Im not too crazy about the water

[Scrim]

GoRanger, actually US Special Forces pretty much do recruit right out of Boot, its called the 18X program. SBS takes Royal Marines with three years service in one of the toughest infantry units in the world. SEALs take sailors with 3 years experience swabbing decks, who has the better apptitude? Obviously his post is loaded he's in England, but I think his main point was that SBS was not even included in this ridiculous poll.

[SABER 2-3]

To the above,
It's painfully obvious that you have gained all of your "Special Operations" knowledge from books and on-line sites. I will clue you in young hardcore, your coming in broken and stupid. Order a fall back, re-group and assault when you have the assests required to take your stated objective. You need to respect the fact that many posting here are or have been in ALL of the units that you are sounding off on. Are we tracking...if so Carry On; if not, Stand-By to Stand-By

[theGHOST]

Scrim to become a SEAL you dont need any experience at all in the military.

[Scrim]

Obviously my statement is exagerated and sarcastic but true none the less. No offense meant, you must be a Squid huh?

[theGHOST]

Um..........all i said is that you dont need any military experience to become a SEAL, dont kno why you feelin soo hostile cause i said it.

[[AFSOC]]

Yeah I know, Scrim........why are u soo hostile?

[Scrim]

At ease, not you Ghost.

[ScoutRanger]

GoRanger, actually US Special Forces pretty much do recruit right out of Boot, its called the 18X program. SBS takes Royal Marines with three years service in one of the toughest infantry units in the world. SEALs take sailors with 3 years experience swabbing decks, who has the better apptitude? Obviously his post is loaded he's in England, but I think his main point was that SBS was not even included in this ridiculous poll.

Negative, I was speaking of Special Forces Operational Detachment / Delta.

[Scrim]

Roger that, out.

[SABER 2-3]

To the above,
It's painfully obvious that you have gained all of your "Special Operations" knowledge from books and on-line sites. I will clue you in young hardcore, your coming in broken and stupid. Order a fall back, re-group and assault when you have the assests required to take your stated objective. You need to respect the fact that many posting here are or have been in ALL of the units that you are sounding off on. Are we tracking...if so Carry On; if not, Stand-By to Stand-By

This was for DIGITALGHOST, sorry to anyone who might have been in the kill zone.

[martinexsquaddie]

Digital Ghost should apply to the Ukraininan Spetnaz he'd fit right in My brother trained with these Heros last year. Two injured themselves with British Grenades didn't die because they had been forced to wear CBA as someone said "hey proves this stuff works :D )". One died in his bunk from alcohol posioning after drinking a bottle of ukrainein vodka.
they even lost the falling plate contest against a part time infantry battalion and they were suppoused to be an elite special forces unit :o
Digital ghost would fit right in woot

[ibstolidude]

to Digitalghost - Don't take your lesson from a book/movie - SF ODAs WERE in somalia. Your primary source should not have been a movie - and I believe even this sight offers pictures of atleast one team from 5th SFG(A) in Somalia

to Mortimer - your wrote "The Australian SASR had the highest kill ratio in the Afghan war, comapred to the US and UK soldiers there.( i am 90% sure of this statement ) " - What is your evidence a news article or your brothers cousin, neighbors who once claimed he was there. How in the hell would you be 90% sure? were you there? NO - even if you were were you wasting your time on operations keeping tabs? NO Would you have any first hand intimate knowledge of what other forces were doing to make a comparision (when they are located 1000s of Klicks away) NO.

And to be technical, if you mean number of kills per man - if you don't bet every dollar you own on the gunners for the AC 130 Spectre 's you would be extremely lacking in any real knowledge.

[theGHOST]

Ya......Mortimer at LEast i HAd proof of the JTF-2's kills...........aahhaha

[Trigger]

Guys, in case you hadn't noticed digitalghost writes very much like the infamous adamballscratchit. Maybe he's adams 'digitalghost'...just some thoughts.
...and littleGHOST: doo uS a favuRr aNd goo bak tOo wachin pOkeymoNN and GnawWin on YeR fuDgeSickLe.
Do you really think that anyone values your incredibly retarded posts?

[theGHOST]

seriously TrigGer, your fUkkin gay.....dont even kno why you start **** on a forum. You prolly sum gay ass nerd that just sits der by his computer jackin off to gay ****. Get a life idiot.

[Trigger]

rofl Keep going littleGHOST, you're well on your way to 'camp woodland - cabin D55' and as far as gay **** goes, you're the one who types like he's got a **** in one hand and another on the mind at all times.

Anxiously awaiting your next dose of brilliance.
Smooch!

[andrew45c]

Hands down the British sf are the worlds premeir special forces and set the standard to which all other sf try to achive altough SBS are infact probably better than SAS due to the fact that they are less publicly recognised and so they get most of the black ops and have been known to do work for the CIA, chosen over Delta or Seals, because they recognise the SBS's profesionalism and skill , can do everything SAS can do and more plus the training is longer and more tough. Plus they have to be RM commandos in the first place so they have to complete the longest and toughest basic infantry training in the world(30 weeks basic).

It has also beem knowm for Delta and Seals on loan to the SAS to fail the SAS/SBS training.

So i would say that the Best SF in the world SBS has been left out which is a shame.

I would say that
1.SBS
2.SAS
3.Delta Force (afterall they where founded by a serving SAS member)

This post is loaded.

Number one; If SBS is so 'less recognized' maybe you can point out why they are known to do missions for the CIA, chosen over SFOD or SEAL's.

Number two; SBS doesn't do more. They do different. RM may have a longer and tougher basic infantry training but I fail to recognize how that makes SBS better, care to explain? Because their target recruits are better trained? What, do you think SFOD or SAS recruit green recruits right out of boot?

Number three; Delta Force was not founded by a serving SAS member. Last I checked Col. Charlie Beckwith served in the US ARMY SF before he created and commanded Delta Force. He did attend an SF/SAS exchange twenty years before hand and witnessed the Malaysian conflict first hand with the SAS.

About them doing missions for the CIA i read that in a book by an Ex SBS guy it was a factual book about there training and stuff i think it was called first into action.
Ok i will explain if ypor feeble brain cannot work it out the reason they are better is that the SAS recruit there operators from basic infantry, whereas the SBS only recruit from RM which are almost special forces in themseves. Then SBS operators have to complete the grueling SAS training which is world renowned for being the worlds hardest training, even after that they must complete SBS training which consists of Submarine incursion and canoe assault and also parachuting into the sea.
They also have to canoe miles and miles offshore in the dark and run 15 miles carrying canoes.

So the reason this makes them the best is because SAS , Delta Force deal with CT aswell as normal SF work, whereas the SBS are trained in all of this aswell as seabourne assault and Ship clearance , all this makes them the most versatile SF in the world.

So Go ranger if u r still not convinced then you r obviously to stupid or pround to except that the worlds best SF is in fact not american altough i have checked on the internet and I must conceide that you are right about Delta Force not being founded by a SAS man but he still created Delta Force after being inspired by the expertise of the SAS.

[cut]

looks like handbags at ten paces all round in this thread..

[andrew45c]

GoRanger, actually US Special Forces pretty much do recruit right out of Boot, its called the 18X program. SBS takes Royal Marines with three years service in one of the toughest infantry units in the world. SEALs take sailors with 3 years experience swabbing decks, who has the better apptitude? Obviously his post is loaded he's in England, but I think his main point was that SBS was not even included in this ridiculous poll.

Negative, I was speaking of Special Forces Operational Detachment / Delta.


My post was loaded but this is not just because im british i have done research and the SBS is the most qaulified,best trained and most experienced.
And you are right about U.S special forces not needing as much previous service to join. Nevrtheless Delta are an excellent SF just not as good as SAS/SBS, you can find proof of this anywhere.

So please dont make this about me being british. Just because our country is tiny compared to yours it doesnt mean your the best at everything.

[JKD]

GoRanger, actually US Special Forces pretty much do recruit right out of Boot, its called the 18X program. SBS takes Royal Marines with three years service in one of the toughest infantry units in the world. SEALs take sailors with 3 years experience swabbing decks, who has the better apptitude? Obviously his post is loaded he's in England, but I think his main point was that SBS was not even included in this ridiculous poll.

Negative, I was speaking of Special Forces Operational Detachment / Delta.


My post was loaded but this is not just because im british i have done research and the SBS is the most qaulified,best trained and most experienced.
And you are right about U.S special forces not needing as much previous service to join. Nevrtheless Delta are an excellent SF just not as good as SAS/SBS, you can find proof of this anywhere.

So please dont make this about me being british. Just because our country is tiny compared to yours it doesnt mean your the best at everything.

So you're less interested in saying that the "best" is British and just more interested in saying that the "best" ISN'T American, huh?
"..you can find proof of this anywhere" Ok, show us. Show us this proof of who the "best" is.

[ScoutRanger]

About them doing missions for the CIA i read that in a book by an Ex SBS guy it was a factual book about there training and stuff i think it was called first into action.
Ok i will explain if ypor feeble brain cannot work it out the reason they are better is that the SAS recruit there operators from basic infantry, whereas the SBS only recruit from RM which are almost special forces in themseves. Then SBS operators have to complete the grueling SAS training which is world renowned for being the worlds hardest training, even after that they must complete SBS training which consists of Submarine incursion and canoe assault and also parachuting into the sea.
They also have to canoe miles and miles offshore in the dark and run 15 miles carrying canoes.

So the reason this makes them the best is because SAS , Delta Force deal with CT aswell as normal SF work, whereas the SBS are trained in all of this aswell as seabourne assault and Ship clearance , all this makes them the most versatile SF in the world.

So Go ranger if u r still not convinced then you r obviously to stupid or pround to except that the worlds best SF is in fact not american altough i have checked on the internet and I must conceide that you are right about Delta Force not being founded by a SAS man but he still created Delta Force after being inspired by the expertise of the SAS.


Oh then excuses my little brain but I wasn't aware Delta Operatives didn't attend LRS, HALO, SOTIC, Pathfinder, Air Assault, Combat Diver, SFAS, RIP, SERE, Sniper, Ranger, Airborne, nor Jumpmaster school before they even attend the Delta Force selection program. I wasn't aware Delta didn't recruit out of the Special Forces. But then again, who am I to speak. SBS can run 15 miles with a canoe. Yeah, then I guess that makes them more elite then everyone else... So yeah, obviously I must be stupid because I'm to ‘pround’ to except the fact that there is no 'best.'

Cute how you had to resort to insults at the slightest of a challenge. You really know how to keep cool, I admire your character.

[ScoutRanger]

My post was loaded but this is not just because im british i have done research and the SBS is the most qaulified,best trained and most experienced.


Or lack there of? You mean to tell me that you've researched and compared SBS to every other unit in the world? Yet you thought Delta was started by the SAS? You must be a pretty extensive researcher.

[andrew45c]

I could go on for ages about the proof of SBS being the best but you have obviously made up your minds and you would just quote me meaningless Military jargon to contradict me so i will quit while im ahead because it doesnt really matter who you think is the best SF what matters is who is the best.

Ill just leave you with the thought that 5 SBS guys rescued 150 rangers from 500 taliban using only light gear.

[ScoutRanger]

Ill just leave you with the thought that 5 SBS guys rescued 150 rangers from 500 taliban using only light gear.

Source?

[ibstolidude]

When where - offer proof - the reports from those that were there certainly do not support your accounts...(this doesn't make or break the claim the sbs/sas are the best - but this claim is fiction - I don't profess as to who the best is)

[JiJoMacLE45]

MOMMY! Help!

And I still think those PsyOps guys are so dreamy.

[hood]

Maybe I should find a copy of the Army entrance exam and make it a requirement to pass it to get a forum account here.

[Ratamacue]

You know, it's a shame that Darwinism doesn't really work anymore because of modern technology. :bash:

[Nawlins]

And I still think those PsyOps guys are so dreamy.



Amen to that. :)

[hood]

They sure are dreamy, but their faces are always so blurry! ;)

Here's a copy of the Marine entrance exam...

Subject: MARINE ENTRANCE EXAM
Time Limit: 3 WKS
Name: _____________________________

1. What language is spoken in France?

2. Give a dissertation on the ancient Babylonian Empire with particular reference to architecture, literature, law and social conditions -OR- give the first name of Pierre Trudeau.

3. Would you ask William Shakespeare to
___ (a) build a bridge
___ (b) sail the ocean
___ (c) lead an army or
___ (D) WRITE A PLAY!!!!

4. What religion is the Pope? (check only one)
___ (a) Jewish
___ (b) Catholic
___ (c) Hindu
___ (d) Polish
___ (e) Agnostic

5. Metric conversion. How many feet is 0.0 meters?

6. What time is it when the big hand is on the 12 and the little hand is on the 5?

7. How many commandments was Moses given? (approximately)

8. What are people in America's far north called?
___ (a) Westerners
___ (b) Southerners
___ (c) Northerners

9. Spell: Bush, Carter, and Clinton
Bush: __________________________________________
Carter: _________________________________________
Clinton: _________________________________________

10. Six kings of England have been called George, the last one being George the Sixth. Name the previous five:

11. Where does rain come from?
___ (a) Macy's
___ (b) a 7-11
___ (c) Canada
___ (d) the sky

12. Can you explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity?
___ (a) yes
___ (b) no

13. What are coat hangers used for?

14. The Star Spangled Banner is the National Anthem for what country?

15. Explain Le Chateliers Principle of Dynamic Equilibrium -OR- spell your name in BLOCK LETTERS.

16. Where is the basement in a three story building located?

17. Which part of America produces the most oranges?
___ (a) New York
___ (b) Florida
___ (c) Canada
___ (d) Wisconsin

18. Advanced math. If you have three apples, how many apples do you have?

19. What does NBC (National Broadcasting Corporation) stand for?

20. The Cornell University tradition for efficiency began when (approximately)?
___ (a) B.C.
___ (b) A.D.

* You must correctly answer three or more questions to qualify

* If you are stuck on any questions, you may ask the monitor for help.

[Nawlins]

rofl rofl rofl

[digitalghost]

ibstolidude: What were the SFG doing in Somalia? Even if they were there were they doing intelligence stuff or primarily SURGICAL DA DELTA-Style?

Why does everyone keep talking about this adam dude? Who the hell is he? I havent seen him on here so I dont even know waht you are talking about or why your associateing me with him

YES THERE IS A BEST GROUP for the individual-- One individual may "believe" that their unit is the best of the best just like someone in a religion may think that "my belief system is best for me" yes there is a best for the indiviudal but not a "best for everyone" In fact this topic asked "WHATS YOUR FAVOURITE" and everyones free to voice their opinions; The question however dindt ask "WHATS TEH BEST UNIT ON EARTH?"

As for the navy seal training thing....No you dont need experience to get into SEALs. SEAL recruiting is similar to Army SF where you would just tryout and if you fail you go back to your mediocore military job--- In this case its any other Navy job--- WHICH SUCKS. In the Army, if you fail, you would probably get into some COMBAT INFANTRY unit-- Since the Marines is under the "Department of the Navy" why not send SEAL failures to Marine Infantry Units?

***EDIT: I mean hell thats another advantage of joining the Army instead of Navy you would get a COMBAT related job and not some dead-end Navy job you must really desire the SEALs to be able to handle that-- If I failed 75th's RIP, I'd ask to be assigned to the 101st or something-- Which is perfectly fine for me-- Plus I can always retry the RIP--i think :(

[IronHeart_26]

Hey! I can answer all those questions. Does this mean I get to be a marine??? I too, am always looking for a few good men! But, I prefer the Army. Hooah! Got any tests for them???? woot

[digitalghost]

Yeah Army uses ASVAB which is actually easier than the above Marine Test

[ibstolidude]

I don't know what "SURGICAL DELTA STYLE STUF" is?

I can say from experience one advantage of the ODA is that they have the ability to infil, collect the intel, use the intel to create a plan and then execute the plan with little outside assistance all while fwd deployed down range and utilizing only the assets at their disposal or organic to their team - that plan can be anything from DA to UW to FID to SASO to anything else you can ask them to do.

That is there point/ there purpose.

[Royal]

DigitalGhost - you're starting to piss me off.

Go back to mommy, do some growing up and then try joining up.

[theGHOST]

DigitalGHost i have a question, what do you mean by SEAL failures?

[digitalghost]

theGHOST: What happens when you say "I QUIT" in BUD/S training? What happens if you get injured and cannot get rolled back? You go back to your NAVY JOB which has NOTHING TO DO with combat or non-combat related--- If you fail/get injured in SF however you'll go to an infantry job

ibstolidude: There are 2 levels of DA(Direct Action)

Level 1: General DA-- Like what the Rangers do

Level 2: Surgical DA-- Hostage Rescue, Calculated Killing etc. which is what rangers dont do and what DELTA does

Compare the 2 and you will understand:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/sfod-d.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/75rr.htm

Hmm what I dindt know is that DELTA selects from 82nd Airborne!!! Hmm I wonder if they select from 101st if they dont 82nd will be my primary choice looks like they like airborne guys more than air assault guys

Royal: My mother is dead-- How unsympathetic of you-- Why are you getting so mad? Trying to put me down to raise your low self esteem? Post something useful like that one dude nameed "digitalghost" hes cool yes do that and you will be happy like me

[Nawlins]

AFAIK, you have to be very intelligent to get selected for SFODD. Hmm...

Case in point: explaining to a BTDT what direct action is. Oh, the comedy never ends...

:cantbeli:

[FallenAngel]

Hey I just figured out that all the "trigger pullers" in JSOC are my favourite DA units :D Except for DEVGROUP of course becuase they like the water too much and Im not too crazy about the water

Well, now I know why you don't want to be a Marine.

Also, not to burst your bubble, but I think aquatic training is a big part of ALL SOF forces.

[SABER 2-3]

[quote="digitalghost"]

ibstolidude: There are 2 levels of DA(Direct Action)

Level 1: General DA-- Like what the Rangers do

Level 2: Surgical DA-- Hostage Rescue, Calculated Killing etc. which is what rangers dont do and what DELTA does

Compare the 2 and you will understand:

Now STOLI, I hope that taught you something...
Excuse me, Supreme Commander Digitalghost sir. Could you please teach us more. I would really like the training block concerning the 2 levels of Direct Action. You know what Rangers do and more about calculated killing (Rangers, ignore this block) so that I can understand just what The Delta Force does.
Digitalghost you say that you plan on trying out for Ranger Regiment? Please, please...all I ask is that you tell me when your ETA is. I only want to know this so that I may ensure that you are properly greeted and received by the Regimental Ripper cadre.
I would also like to make sure that you are properly introduced to the "Tabbed" Specialist Mafia (they specialize in the 3rd, top-secret, type of Direct Action)
And I would like to be the one to make sure that the orders you are cut(upon immediate release from the 75TH RGR RGT, LOM drop I'm sure)are fitting of a person w/ your skills. the 2ND INF DIV needs you.
But what ever you do don't stop posting because I have not laughed this hard in a while.
WILCO?

[digitalghost]

i will haunt you too--- watch out---

[theGHOST]

Look what DigitalGhost wrote guys..........LoL


my daddy is the best he is a navy seal in the 82nd airborne air assault mechanized division of the united states army royal special operations forces and hes so cool he even has a ranger tab becuase he went to sniper school to receive it hes so cool i want to be just like him

[digitalghost]

That was on a "WHOS BEST MY DADDY OR YOUR DADDY" forum where humar is intended------THIS IS THE NO SPIN ZONE and what your doing is spinning the truth son--- In fact that entire topic was a joke so my post was a joke also you can find how ridiculous it is--- "Went to sniper school to get a ranger tab" now im not taht stpuid ranger school is nto sniper school

[SABER 2-3]

i will haunt you too--- watch out---

Take a number and wait your turn I got ghosts already waiting for me to give back their souls...care to join them?

[digitalghost]

sure dude it will be cool

[SABER 2-3]

sure dude it will be cool

Cool indeed, plenty of insulation. 6ft. worth if your family gives you a proper.

[digitalghost]

thats right buddy

[Dmitri]

Hmm what I dindt know is that DELTA selects from 82nd Airborne!!! Hmm I wonder if they select from 101st if they dont 82nd will be my primary choice looks like they like airborne guys more than air assault guys

:bash: Think about it! Who cares what do they do: airborne, air assault or cooking, if you are high speed, you have a chance. I had a drill seargent from a regular unit invited to try out for delta after my cycle...

Yeah Army uses ASVAB which is actually easier than the above Marine Test
Have you ever taken one???

Level 1: General DA-- Like what the Rangers do
another quote that proves that you don't know s**t.

[martinexsquaddie]

Digital ghost as My old PSI said
Please continue I'm a bit of a bull****ter in my spare time but I love to watch a master at work :o :o