View Full Version : Socialism at Work: Oil powerhouse Venezuela struggles to keep lights on
loganinkosovo
10-23-2008, 10:42 PM
For Full Story.....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081023/wl_nm/us_venezuela_electricity
AN FELIX, Venezuela (*******) – Despite having some of the world's largest energy reserves, Venezuela is increasingly struggling to maintain basic electrical service, a growing challenge for leftist President Hugo Chavez. The OPEC nation has suffered three nationwide blackouts this year, and chronic power shortages have sparked protests from the western Andean highlands to San Felix, a city of mostly poor industrial workers in the sweltering south.
Shoddy electrical service is now one of Venezuelans' top concerns, according to a recent poll, and may be a factor in elections next month for governors and mayors in which Chavez allies are expected to lose key posts, in part on complaints of poor services.
The problem suggests that Chavez, with his ambitious international alliances and promises to end capitalism, risks alienating supporters by failing to focus on basic issues like electricity, trash collection and law enforcement.
"With so much energy in Venezuela, how can we be without power?" asked Fernando Aponte, 49, whose slum neighborhood of Las Delicias in San Felix spent 15 days without electricity -- leading him to block a nearby avenue with burning tires in protest.
"snip"
This should be in the joke section.
Chavez does not like America therefore Americans and those brainwashed by Americans think Venezuala is now a communist country.
He was democratically elected in a country that is a democracy.
And BTW if you think power cuts in little weak countries are unusual I wonder how this got by you:
Wow power cuts in the worlds ONLY superpower... how can it call itself the beacon of democracy if it can't even keep its own lights going?
August 2000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/862765.stm
But that was only an isolated case right?
March 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1224693.stm
seraosha
10-23-2008, 11:58 PM
LOL, using California's rolling blackouts as an example is great.
Overloaded capacity due to industry and folks running AC in the peak heat of summer vs basic infrastructure failure. Not to mention the power outages were part of the Enron scam...or did you miss that memo?
Compare the Oil output of Cali with that of Venezuela, you tell me who is generating more energy.
Chavez is a socialist douchebag who no one will weep over when he is jailed.
Not brainwashed, just annoyed at yet another tinpot loudmouth that happens to be sitting on a lot of oil.
Hogan
10-24-2008, 12:05 AM
This should be in the joke section.
Hrmmm... I'm looking for where the OP said "communist". Chavez promotes himself as a democratic socialist and he's essentially regarded worldwide as a dictator...If you don't think Venezuela has a socialist government...perhaps some research on your part is in order.
You may now continue trudging along on your Anti-American bandwagon.
Kilgor
10-24-2008, 12:21 AM
Heh, this is the guy who was overjoyed at the current American banking crisis, yet he can't even keep his own backyard in order. Despite all the oil revenue, the place is a mismanaged sh!thole.
C.MAXIMUS
10-24-2008, 07:10 AM
I think Venezuela needs oil around USD 100 to keep their budget spending power. I wonder how they will pay for all the Russian toys.
Winger
10-24-2008, 08:03 AM
This should be in the joke section.
Chavez does not like America therefore Americans and those brainwashed by Americans think Venezuala is now a communist country.
He was democratically elected in a country that is a democracy.
And BTW if you think power cuts in little weak countries are unusual I wonder how this got by you:
Wow power cuts in the worlds ONLY superpower... how can it call itself the beacon of democracy if it can't even keep its own lights going?
August 2000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/862765.stm
But that was only an isolated case right?
March 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1224693.stm
You can be a democratically elected socialist without being a dictator. This A$$hat happens to be both. Good luck with democrat elections after getting him in. I can take some good with some bad because you never really get what you want completely. However, bad piled on top of more bad just sucks.
Chulo
10-24-2008, 11:28 AM
This should be in the joke section.
Chavez does not like America therefore Americans and those brainwashed by Americans think Venezuala is now a communist country.
He was democratically elected in a country that is a democracy.
And BTW if you think power cuts in little weak countries are unusual I wonder how this got by you:
Wow power cuts in the worlds ONLY superpower... how can it call itself the beacon of democracy if it can't even keep its own lights going?
August 2000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/862765.stm
But that was only an isolated case right?
March 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1224693.stm
lol.. you need a bit more reading comprehension and reality check - but like the others said.. you are on a bandwagon .. what do facts matter?
I think Venezuela needs oil around USD 100 to keep their budget spending power. I wonder how they will pay for all the Russian toys.
That's pretty much correct; Venezuela and Iran are two countries that are probably going to take it on the chin pretty hard in a bit. From what I've gathered, neither one has saved any of that $147 USD / barrel oil money away like Russia did.
Mr.Flint
10-24-2008, 01:24 PM
I think Venezuela needs oil around USD 100 to keep their budget spending power. I wonder how they will pay for all the Russian toys.
He wont, remember he got a "loan" from Russia to buy those toys...
Brute
10-24-2008, 02:57 PM
Chavez is a socialist douchebag who no one will weep over when he is jailed.
And what would he be going to jail for?
You can be a democratically elected socialist without being a dictator. This A$$hat happens to be both.
Huh? :) Since when do true dictators hold, and then accept defeat in referendums?
Winger
10-24-2008, 03:00 PM
Huh? :) Since when do true dictators hold, and then accept defeat in referendums?
You get elected the first time and that's the only time you actually have to run. :)
LOL, using California's rolling blackouts as an example is great.
Thank you.
Overloaded capacity due to industry and folks running AC in the peak heat of summer vs basic infrastructure failure. Not to mention the power outages were part of the Enron scam...or did you miss that memo?
A basic infrastructure failure is possible because of rapid growth where infrastructure fails to keep up with demand.
If it can happen in the worlds last Super Power, then why not in a small South American backwater?
Compare the Oil output of Cali with that of Venezuela, you tell me who is generating more energy.
Genius. WTF has crude oil output got to do with electricity generation?
I guess the solution for California is to burn all those computers they have there in silicon valley to generate power. :roll:
Chavez is a socialist douchebag who no one will weep over when he is jailed.
What is he being jailed for? Getting elected against the CIAs wishes?
Is that really what democracy means? America decides who can get into power in every country in the world? Or is that only countries that have oil?
Not brainwashed, just annoyed at yet another tinpot loudmouth that happens to be sitting on a lot of oil.
Ahhh, so it is just plain jealousy. That I can understand.
Hrmmm... I'm looking for where the OP said "communist".
Everyone knows Socialist is secret code for communist.
Chavez promotes himself as a democratic socialist and he's essentially regarded worldwide as a dictator...If you don't think Venezuela has a socialist government...perhaps some research on your part is in order.
But unless you agree that socialist means communist then you are actually stating he is not a dictator. According to the CIA websites World Factbook Venezuala has a democratically elected leader called Hugo Chavez, which means that he is not a dictator.
You may now continue trudging along on your Anti-American bandwagon.
Pro American Government person requires me to be a moron and not have an opinion till I am told by the US State Department. How the F should I know that the Russians are evil for fighting in Georgia... it looks like a normal reaction to Georgian aggression. A pro American government person needs the US State Department to tell them Russia is evil and georgia is the victim. It is the same with Hugo. He was democratically elected so how can I tell he is a dirty commie dictator? The US State Department of course tells me he is. Otherwise I just might think he is a normal person that took exception to the US undermining the democracy it claims to love so much and remove him in a coup attempt.
I can understand why Americans are pro American government. The US government might piss all over the supposed American ideals of truth and democracy, but they certainly look out for the interests of American citizens. Who cares what is right or wrong as long as you are financially wealthy right? What I would like to know from you is why you think I should be pro US government when any help I might get from them will be purely accidental.
Despite all the oil revenue, the place is a mismanaged sh!thole.
It is a democracy. The place was likely a ****hole when he was elected.
I think Venezuela needs oil around USD 100 to keep their budget spending power. I wonder how they will pay for all the Russian toys.
Loans.
You can be a democratically elected socialist without being a dictator.
You mean like Tony Blair taking the Brits to war in Iraq without consulting the people of Britain or the opposition party?
This A$$hat happens to be both. Good luck with democrat elections after getting him in.
An elected president has the right to make decisions and therefore in effect is a dictator in any democracy. Chavez has already been reelected once so democracy still exists in Venezuala... but I am sure your free and fair and open media already made you aware of that right?
lol.. you need a bit more reading comprehension and reality check - but like the others said.. you are on a bandwagon .. what do facts matter?
The American government hopes facts don't matter. Hugo Chavez was democratically elected the leader of a country. The CIA tried to have him removed in a coup but it failed. Hugo has since been reelected as leader of that country... but the country that controls the CIA that wanted to overthrow this person wants us to believe he is a dictator.
If it was the Venezualans that tried to interfere in the US elections most Americans would consider it an act of war let alone attempting an insurrection in the US to remove a president from office.
But Hugo is the bad dictator... which is enormously ironic because the West loves its dictators... the Saudi Royal family offer stability that the west loves. They also bend like reeds to the will of the west which also suits the west. The reason Saudi Arabia doesn't get democracy is because the majority of Saudis are like Osama Bin Laden and really don't much care for the west or the US.
You get elected the first time and that's the only time you actually have to run.
In the second election he won 62.9% of the vote... According to the CIA World Factbook. In comparison, that wonderful beacon of democracy, Saakashvili got something like 97% of the vote in the last election.
seraosha
10-25-2008, 12:49 AM
You left your sheep for that weak response?
Get back to her you baaad baaad boy.
teoretikern
10-25-2008, 02:34 AM
...
I wonder what the sheiks and Chavez will say when the first electric cars get their commercial debute? rofl
You left your sheep for that weak response?
Get back to her you baaad baaad boy.
You do America proud.
Mr.Flint
10-25-2008, 06:29 AM
Gaz why are you still in New Zealand? shouldnt you move into like Russia and Venezuela if you admire them that much?
I mean only a worst kind of a fanboy would excuse, Venezuela's classic third world style blackouts (something you are most likely are not familiar with, unlike a few posters here), with California's energy overindulgence.
Mamont
10-25-2008, 06:41 AM
Gaz why are you still in New Zealand? shouldnt you move into like Russia and Venezuela if you admire them that much?Stupid responce.
I mean only a worst kind of a fanboy would excuse, Venezuela's classic third world style blackouts Why not exuse them? Or by some chance you think that Ugo really could foresee and prevent it? Besides, increase in electricity demand is one of the signs of progress. Too bad he can't keep up with it. Not to mention that directly linking oil "energy reserve" and shortage of electricity is next to idiotic.
(something you are most likely are not familiar with, unlike a few posters here), I'm familiar. Like 4 hours or more everyday for like 10 years with blackouts in present time due to old and poorly maintained net.
Mynameischarlie
10-25-2008, 07:46 AM
The electricity systems are "underpowered" in many countries - not only in Venezuela.
Having Oil =/= having electricity
BTW: The Norways do not use a single drop of their oil for the generation of power.
#1: Leftist governments in South America is just the aftermath of Cold War politics, because many of the pro-US/Western governments/dictatorships have failed to develop their countries substainablely.
#2: Hugo Chavez & Evo Morales and others are democratically elected. You can dislike & critize their politics or the authoritarian tendencies in their governments, but you cannot call them dictators - at least currently.
#3: American politicians, who blame guys like Hugo Chavez for many problems, just behave in the same way as Hugo Chavez blame them for Venezuela's problems.
#4: Many populist governments allaround the world have also failed to solve problems. So sooner or later the pragmatic fraction/politicians will come to power.
Anyway the comments in this thread just show something very usual in MP.net: ARM CHAIR ANALYSTS STRONG!!!!
Gaz's comparison is somewhat overstated but he's not completely wrong either. His own country suffered lengthy blackouts in Auckland's CBD some years ago - and in my neck of the woods, recent blackouts in some suburbs for hours on end has become cause for complaint by many angry customers. This was due to lack of investment and a management mentality of 'run it into the ground till it dies'. This has bitten the arse of the local power utility and state Govt big time. 47 truck container sized Generators have been bought in as backups for local substations as assessments of what needs to be done are completed and implementation of equipment replacement takes place. And we are heading into the Monsoon (rainy season).
loganinkosovo
10-25-2008, 10:17 PM
More Socialism at work!
Venezuela's Chavez wants to jail rival
CARACAS (*******) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened on Saturday to imprison his main political rival, intensifying a campaign against a man he calls a crime boss just a month before he faces tough regional elections.
Opposition leader Manuel Rosales, who lost to Chavez in the 2006 presidential vote, is governor of the oil producing state of Zulia and is running for mayor of its capital Maracaibo.
"I am determined to put Manuel Rosales behind bars. A swine like that has to be in prison," Chavez said.
Chavez railed against Rosales at a gathering of businessmen in Zulia, urging the audience to vote against his rival for allegedly plotting to assassinate him, running crime gangs and illegally acquiring cattle ranches.
Chavez provided no specific evidence for the charges against the main leader of a fragmented opposition who has solid support in the oil-producing west of the OPEC nation.
"snip"
http://www.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE49O2FL20081025?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true
Gaz why are you still in New Zealand? shouldnt you move into like Russia and Venezuela if you admire them that much?
Yeah... those Kiwi soldiers fought the Boer war and WWI and WWII so I could shut the F up and do as I am told by my government and the US government... Oops not they didn't. They fought for the rights that their fathers and mothers had fought for before them.
NZ is the worlds first real democracy where men and women first got the vote. It wasn't handed to them... they had to fight for that too.
But you think just because I exercise my rights to believe what I want I should be shipped off somewhere else? The next boat have Jews and Gays on it perhaps? Then retarded people and those that are too short or not white enough for you on the next one?
I mean only a worst kind of a fanboy would excuse, Venezuela's classic third world style blackouts (something you are most likely are not familiar with, unlike a few posters here), with California's energy overindulgence.
Power shortages happen in every country from the poorest to the richest. The US in this case being the richest. I can see why you object to me mentioning the US as being one of the richest because obviously that must be because I am a communist. :roll:
Chavez has been in power for less than a decade. Do you think he should have fixed everything in two terms? I mean I can agree that Bush seems to have gone a long way to doing the opposite in the US in two terms but I think that is a much easier agenda.
(something you are most likely are not familiar with, unlike a few posters here),
I live in the lower South Island of New Zealand where a lot of the power in this country is generated through hydro electric Dams on major rivers. When the lakes are low due to lack of rain we occasionally have power cuts. I am sure there are plenty of Australians just dying to pop up and claim the SI of NZ is a third world country, and probably a few from the North Island of NZ who want to say the same thing.
The reality is that whether it is managed by a government or private enterprise (we have seen both in NZ and quite frankly as inefficient as the government was at least they spent money and maintained things) blackouts are always a possiblity.
Venezuela's Chavez wants to jail rival
Every politician would love an easy win. If the opposition could have impeached Clinton for Adultery over Lewinsky they would have. They tried everything they could at the time.
This just shows all politicians are scum... so nothing new here.
Gaz's comparison is somewhat overstated but he's not completely wrong either. His own country suffered lengthy blackouts in Auckland's CBD some years ago - and in my neck of the woods,
Hahahaha... yeah that was actually really funny. The CBD of Auckland lost power for two hours and they went nuts like their throats had been cut. Some places in the high country in Canterbury lost power for 2 weeks (because snow brought down the lines) and no complaints. Of course of the 6 main power cables bringing power into Auckland only two were working and they couldn't shut down either for maintainence cause the other cable couldn't supply enough power on its own.
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