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C.MAXIMUS
10-24-2008, 10:12 AM
Israel election looms as religious party backs out of coalition talks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/24/israelandthepalestinians-middleeast1

Ultra-Orthodox party Shas will only join Tzipi Livni's coalition if its key demands are met





Rory McCarthy (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/rorymccarthy) in Jerusalem
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/),
Friday October 24 2008 14.18 BST
Article history (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/24/israelandthepalestinians-middleeast1#history-byline)

Israel (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/israelandthepalestinians) moved closer to an early general election today when a key ultra-Orthodox party refused to join a new coalition government that the prime minister designate, Tzipi Livni, has spent weeks trying to put together.
The decision by Shas, a rightwing party that represents religious Jews from non-European backgrounds, means Livni faces the prospect of either forming a slim, weak coalition or failing outright, which would mean an election early next year. Livni said a decision would be reached by Sunday.
Livni, the foreign minister, narrowly won the leadership of her ruling party, Kadima, in an internal vote in mid-September. She was given six weeks to persuade others to join her in a coalition that needed at least 61 votes of approval in the 120-seat Knesset. She has secured the support of the Labour party, giving her a combined 48 seats, and can expect the support of at least one other small party, but had still hoped for the 12 crucial seats of Shas to form a clear majority.
The negotiations were difficult from the start. Shas, as expected, made two key demands: a substantial increase in child allowances, which would benefit its supporters who tend to have larger, poorer families, and a promise that in any peace negotiations with the Palestinians the Israeli government would not agree to divide Jerusalem. Shas had reportedly asked for a 1bon shekels (£160m) in child allowances. Livni offered less money but proposed extending the jurisdiction of rabbinical courts in the hope of winning the party's favour.
The party's spiritual leader, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, met with his advisers and decided to pull out of the coalition talks.
"Throughout the entire coalition negotiations, Shas did not ask for treats, titles or any political upgrade," the party said in a statement. "Shas asked for real aid for the Israeli society's disadvantaged population and sought to protect Jerusalem. We cannot ignore the difficulties and hardship these days, when Israel has reached the first place in poverty among the developed countries."
The Shas decision at first appeared to be final, but Eli Yishai, the party leader, went on Israel Radio and hinted a deal could still be done. He said it was in Kadima's hands. "If they don't meet our demands, we won't be able to join," he said.
A spokesman for Livni said she was sticking to her deadline of Sunday to conclude an agreement. The autumn session of the Knesset begins on Monday and she had hoped to address the parliament as prime minister and head of a new coalition.
If the Shas decision is final, Livni could still form a coalition with other smaller parties, including the leftwing Meretz party, which has five seats, the Pensioners party, with four seats, or United Torah Judaism, an ultra-Orthodox party with six seats.
Most political observers now say that at best she can hope for a slim coalition of 60 seats, which would put her at the head of a weak government. To win Knesset approval she would have to persuade other MPs to vote for the coalition without joining it.
If she fails, the president, Shimon Peres, will probably call an election for early next year. Livni had hoped to avoid an early vote with opinion polls still forecasting a win for Benjamin Netanyahu's opposition Likud party.

Mr.Flint
10-24-2008, 01:29 PM
Hurray. there might be an election! I hope she fails.

C.MAXIMUS
10-24-2008, 01:58 PM
Fingers crossed! Kadima is on its way out!!! woot

RoyB
10-24-2008, 02:02 PM
In the election Bibi is taking this for sure, I don't know if I want to see Nataniyahu as PM, but maybe the elections will be for the best..

Mr.Flint
10-24-2008, 05:47 PM
In the election Bibi is taking this for sure, I don't know if I want to see Nataniyahu as PM, but maybe the elections will be for the best..
He did fix the economy...

gilgoul
10-24-2008, 06:28 PM
Please, just an election, the faster, the better.
And let kadima and gil party go down the toilet of history.
But I'm sure Livni and Barak are going to go down on their knees in front of Shas, they know that an election would mean the end of their political career.

NimDod
10-24-2008, 07:30 PM
But I'm sure Livni and Barak are going to go down on their knees in front of Shas, they know that an election would mean the end of their political career.

I wouldnt be so sure.
last time I saw a poll, Kadima under Livni wasnt that far behind the Likud and Bibi.
the Avoda/Labor party got less than 10 parlament members.

but you know how things are in here. everthing can change in days.
I also hope there will be elections, but I dont think I'll ever be able to vote for the corrupted Likud. I'd rather give my vote for some small party, like many people voted for Gil party on the last elections.

gilgoul
10-25-2008, 06:59 AM
I wouldnt be so sure.
last time I saw a poll, Kadima under Livni wasnt that far behind the Likud and Bibi.
the Avoda/Labor party got less than 10 parlament members.

but you know how things are in here. everthing can change in days.
I also hope there will be elections, but I dont think I'll ever be able to vote for the corrupted Likud. I'd rather give my vote for some small party, like many people voted for Gil party on the last elections.

Yeah, and waste a vote for yet another unstable coalition, while Iran, Hizballah, Hamas, Fatah et co. are waiting for us at the corner, while our western "allies" breath down our neck to expose ourselves even more, and the internal situation is degrading on the fast track (have been to Akko lately?)
I voted Tafnit last elections, and the very fact that Dayan joined the Likud is telling, Because Dayan ain't a rightist, and Likud ain't a rightist party no more, it is just that Labor and Kadima have sone the big step toward the extreme left.
More over, Netanyahu litterally saved the public debt and parts of the economy, and while I disagree strongly with many of his positions (stop the production of the Merkava for instance), he is the only PM able Israeli public figure who follows a clear line of conduct, unlike Olmert and Livni, who worked their way to try to torpedo Oslo in their time, just to get us something worse later.

The way we put problems under the carpet in the hope we'll be able to solve them later, the "ehie be seder" mantra is what's going to blow in our face if we don't go on a confrontation path now, not by love of war, but because the conflagration is coming our way anyway, and we'd rather be able to chose the where and when.

With Livni as PM, Barak as DM and Deri as Finance minister, while Mofaz, for whom I have lost the last bit of respect I ever had since he came back to "politics" like a poodle, this country won't celebrate it's 70's birthday, because the dichotomy between the people and the establishment will at some point create a crack from the inside.

Mynameischarlie
10-25-2008, 08:10 AM
Best thing for Isreal's ( and also for Italy's) democracy would be a electoral law that has a "5 percent hurdle" like in Germany. In the long run you cannot rule a country if the major parties cannot gain a significant majority. Instable majorities only hurts the democracy in the long term.

C.MAXIMUS
10-25-2008, 08:32 AM
I cant vote in Israel but this land for a piece of paper obsession from the current coalition has just alienated me from their policy... Second Lebanon war, Gaza pull out and Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem negotiations are really being taken very very badly

frenchy
10-25-2008, 02:53 PM
The main problem in Israel according to me after the security is the brain drain.

Less and less high level scientists there, and the country will be ruined. They're running because of high tech industry and innovation.

What are the intentions of the different parties in this domain ?
Forget and just thinking security ?

RoyB
10-25-2008, 03:01 PM
A BIG part of the money goes to security, and most of it is really needed I think, but that(and not only that) is making the crumbling of the education system, thats why some of the younger generations students prefer leaving the country..but the security will always be the #1 subject(I hope).

gilgoul
10-25-2008, 07:49 PM
A BIG part of the money goes to security, and most of it is really needed I think, but that(and not only that) is making the crumbling of the education system, thats why some of the younger generations students prefer leaving the country..but the security will always be the #1 subject(I hope).

Israel spends a lot of money in education, but badly, by refusing to pay teachers normal wages, and having a better selection of teachers, comes the first failure. Then, discipline, behavior and commitment are definitely lacking, but hey, what could I say, I was myself thrown out of school twice.

Moledet
10-26-2008, 04:21 AM
It doesn't matter who you vote to, at the end of the day two of the large parties will have to form a coalition together so whether it's Bibi, Barak or Livni the PM they will have the same ministers and cabinet.

DID
10-26-2008, 04:31 AM
Israeli Election&Govt. system is the worst and the most complicated in the world. Jewish mind! But it work since 1948, I just hope we will never do the same errors as in 70 when the Roman Legions were surrounding Jerusalem and we fought against each other.

C.MAXIMUS
10-26-2008, 08:25 AM
Subject: Torah Sages Council rules Shas won't join government

Torah Sages Council rules Shas won't join government
Council members vote in telephone survey against joining Livni-led
coalition. Statement released by ultra-Orthodox party says, 'Difficulties
and hardship of disadvantaged population cannot be ignored'
Attila Somfalvi YNET Published: 10.24.08, 10:42 / Israel News
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3612518,00.html

The Shas party has officially announced that its Council of Torah Sages
decided not to join a new government led by Kadima Chairwoman Tzipi Livni.

The party said in a statement that Shas had demanded real aid for the
disadvantaged population and sought to protect Jerusalem.

"We cannot ignore the difficulties and hardship on days when the developed
countries report is being published, and Israel is first in poverty. We
suggested solutions for the poverty issues and Jerusalem, but our opinion
was not accepted and thus we will not be able to join the government," the
statement said.

Snoshi
10-26-2008, 08:34 AM
^^ that Israel tops the poverty rankins in developed countries is only their fault when they are breeding like rabbits and get children that they cannot support.