happy st crispians day

[martinexsquaddie]

BOO to the french :)
battle of agincourt

WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[Adam Wilhelm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAvmLDkAgAM

[AkerWalker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApcrdI-XPdU

[LineDoggie]

Beautifully done, thanks

[Calanen]

One of the best anecdotes of the battle involves Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey,_Duke_of_Gloucester), Henry V's youngest brother. According to the story, Henry, upon hearing that his brother had been wounded in the abdomen, took his household guard and cut a path through the French, standing over his brother and beating back waves of soldiers until Humphrey could be dragged to safety.


From wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt

I liked how the English put sharpened palings into the ground so that when the French cavalary charged they got impaled or veered to avoid them, and created huge medieval traffic jams as horse after horse crashed into each other and fell over, all the time being hit with arrow fire. The English longbowmen were lightly dressed compared to the heavily armoured French who had to slowly wade through the mud to get to them, so they were exhausted by the time the longbowmen, set upon them armed with hatchets when they were out of arrows.

[T-Rex]

A very interesting battle and a very decisive one. I am still amazed at the effectiveness of the Longbow, as used by the British. This battle must be one the turining points in medieval European history.

[Eoin666]

There was an article in the Telegraph I think it was, some French academics are trying to say that Agincourt was an English war crime :roll:

[Eoin666]

A very interesting battle and a very decisive one. I am still amazed at the effectiveness of the Longbow, as used by the British. This battle must be one the turining points in medieval European history.

Agincourt, was celebrated for centuries in England long before old Bill Shakespeare.......

English armies had been training with the long bow for a couple of hundred years since we first encountered it in the hand of the Welsh bowmen. The archers formed bands with spearmen, and freelance knights/men-at-arms to form all-arms combat teams each providing mutual support to the others.

Here at Agincourt the French had too many men, funnelled by the terrain and weather into a killing zone, with archers firing into the flanks and men-at-arms killing anything that broke through the defense lines. Captured nobles as was the custom were to be held for later ransom, however when the rear was threatening with being over run, Henry gave orders to kill the prisoners, but the English knights refused, so he turned to his archers, who as commoners had no qualms about the killing, most being killed with hammers or the huge defensive-construction mallets they carried. Most of the English army was riddled with dysentery, there's a painting of English archers with breeches around their ankles leaving them "hands-free to release the chocolate hostages" at anytime, and also barefoot in the mud........

Archery was compulsary training for all commoners, and people were required to keep weapons at home. This contradicted with European armies where commoners weren't trusted to keep weapons ready to hand for fear of revolt. Edward I even banned football, as it was interfering with archery training.

In the end though Aginicourt although a famous victory, was not a decisive battle in the Hundred Years war or European history

[Eoin666]

From wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt

I liked how the English put sharpened palings into the ground so that when the French cavalary charged they got impaled or veered to avoid them, and created huge medieval traffic jams as horse after horse crashed into each other and fell over, all the time being hit with arrow fire. The English longbowmen were lightly dressed compared to the heavily armoured French who had to slowly wade through the mud to get to them, so they were exhausted by the time the longbowmen, set upon them armed with hatchets when they were out of arrows.

That tactic failed at Verneuil a few years later, the mercenary Lombard heavy cavalry on their armoured horses rode straight over the archers who couldn't hammer their stakes in in time due to the rock hard baked ground. Henry V's younger brother, John, Duke of Bedford turned the almost routed army around and pushed the French army into the town and with their backs to a steep moat were slaughtered, it was probably a greater victory then even Agincourt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verneuil

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/W/weapons/armour2.html

[Calanen]

That tactic failed at Verneuil a few years later, the mercenary Lombard heavy cavalry on their armoured horses rode straight over the archers who couldn't hammer their stakes in in time due to the rock hard baked ground. Henry V's younger brother, John, Duke of Bedford turned the almost routed army around and pushed the French army into the town and with their backs to a steep moat were slaughtered, it was probably a greater victory then even Agincourt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verneuil

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/W/weapons/armour2.html

I dont think the tactic failed - more couldnt be put to use fast enough. The English and their stakes worked, but anyone who gets surprised gets slapped.

The longbow was such a fearsome weapon - that I saw in that wiki article although unsourced, that the Duke of Wellington had asked for a group of longbowmen to fight in the Napoleonic Wars, Longbowmen being able to fire arrows faster than a musketman can reload. It says in wiki that the Duke was told there was no such animal anymore - but one wonders what carnage a group of bowmen supported by musketeers could have wreaked on advancing lines of unarmoured Napoleonic infantry.

[stonecutter]

I've often wondered why bowmen weren't used by European powers in later wars, such as the Seven Years War and the Napoleonic wars...

[Eoin666]

I dont think the tactic failed - more couldnt be put to use fast enough. The English and their stakes worked, but anyone who gets surprised gets slapped.

The longbow was such a fearsome weapon - that I saw in that wiki article although unsourced, that the Duke of Wellington had asked for a group of longbowmen to fight in the Napoleonic Wars, Longbowmen being able to fire arrows faster than a musketman can reload. It says in wiki that the Duke was told there was no such animal anymore - but one wonders what carnage a group of bowmen supported by musketeers could have wreaked on advancing lines of unarmoured Napoleonic infantry.

Unlike the crossbow and later firearms, the longbow required a lifetime of use and training to be effective, warbows ranged from 120-240lb pulls. The yeoman archers of the middle ages, although commoners were by no means peasant soldiers, they were highly professional, and well paid as the surviving recruitment documents from the 100yrs war period shows. By the 1650's there were no more professional archers left, the training and discipline had long since gone and it became more a sport in England...it's cheaper to bang out a few matchlock muskets and issue them to half trained troops rather than highly trained archers requiring years of training. Interestingly, during the British wars in India, they encountered Indian troops armed with steel bows, and many said they would rather face firearms than trained archers.

[Eztyga]

I have read this modern English version out on Anzac Day (from No Fear Shakespere).

If we are slated to die, the fewer, the better for our country, and if we're slated to live, the fewer men, the greater the share of honor for each of us. In God's name, I beg you not to wish for one more man. By God, I am not selfish when it comes to money: I don't care who eats at my expense. It doesn't bother me when people borrow my clothing—I don't care about these concrete things. But if it is a sin to be selfish about honor, I am the most guilty soul alive. No, my cousin, don't wish that even one man who is now in England were here instead. By God, I wouldn't lose as much honor as a single man more would cost me, I think—not even if it meant giving up my best hope for victory. Oh, do not wish one more! Instead, make this known throughout the army: whoever has no spirit for this fight, let him depart. He will be given safe conduct and money for his passage home. We would not want to die in the company of a man who fears to die with us. This day is called the Feast of Saint Crispian: he who lives to see this day out and comes home safe will stand tall when this day is named and raise himself up at the mention of Crispian. He who survives this day and lives to see old age shall yearly entertain his neighbors on the eve, saying, “Tomorrow is Saint Crispin's Day (javascript:void(0);) .” He'll roll up his sleeve and show his scars, saying, “I got these wounds on St. Crispin's Day.” Old men forget. But these men will remember every detail of what they did today long after they've forgotten everything else. And as the wine flows, our names, familiar as household words, will be invoked again: Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester. Good men will tell their sons this story and the Feast of St. Crispin will never go by, from this day to the end of time, without our being remembered: we few, we happy few, we band of brothers—for whoever sheds his blood with me today shall be my brother. However humble his birth, this day shall grant him nobility. And men back in English now safe in their beds will curse themselves for not having been here, and think less of their own manhood when they listen to the stories of those who fought with us here on St. Crispin's Day.

[Ali Baba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApcrdI-XPdU


That was Beutiful man. I Cannot explain how that made me feel. :hug:

[Billy No Mates]

There was an article in the Telegraph I think it was, some French academics are trying to say that Agincourt was an English war crime :roll:

There were certainly acts commited by the English that went against the accepted articles of war most notably the execution of French prisoners when the English were hard pressed and their guards feared they might revolt/be released .
The real relevance of these English victorys was the prominant role of the Yeoman class in them and their rise as a military(and social)force in the medieval age .

[oldsoak]

Cry Havoc was the term I beleive.
It wasnt in the English interest to kill their captives - captives meant ransom money, which was far more than what you'd get paid/loot as a soldier. Imagine having some French nobleman captive , who is worth ( in relative terms ) hundreds of thousands of dollars to you and being told to kill him.