Germany's biggest mosque opens in Duisburg

[Fuschimuschi]

For Calanen ;)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/25/germany-islam-mosque-religion


It has a 34-metre minaret and a dome-shaped ceiling handpainted with floral patterns and verses from the Qur'an. Its crowning glory is a golden chandelier engraved with 99 epithets for Allah, and there is seating for 2,000 worshippers.
Germany's biggest mosque opens tomorrow in the Ruhr valley city of Duisburg in what leaders of Germany's 3 million Muslims have described as a watershed moment, bringing mosques out of the backyards and alleys and into the middle of urban life.
The multimillion-euro Merkez mosque in the working-class district of Marxloh, which was financed by private and public money, will transform the lives of the city's Muslims. Their previous meeting place was the rundown canteen of a former mining company.
For some, its consecration is a sign that the country has finally integrated its Muslims, too long considered guest workers who would one day go home, while for others it shows that Islam is taking over the religious landscape.
"How many mosques can a country cope with?" the conservative newspaper Die Welt asked in a recent commentary.
For their part, Germany's Muslims, of whom 70% are ethnic Turks, say they want their rightful place in a society they have been a part of for 50 years or more.
"The fact that we've been allowed to build a mosque is a sign for us that the community is telling us 'you're accepted'," said Mustafa Kücük, a spokesman for the Merkez mosque.
However, there have been protests in Berlin, a citizens' initiative was formed in Munich to prevent a mosque being built, and in Cologne rightwing populists used opposition to the building of a mosque to stoke Islamophobia.
Germany has 206 mosques, and more than 120 are under construction or in the planning stage.



http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,586579,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1337604,00.jpg

[Calanen]

3.2 Million Euros contributed by the EU and the state of North Rhine-Westphalia to build it.



Duisburg is home to sixty thousand Turkish Muslims. The new Merkez Mosque, the largest Muslim place of worship in North Rhine-Westphalia, is being built with a contribution of 3.2 million Euros from the EU and the state of North Rhine-Westphalia.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duisburg#cite_note-2)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duisburg#cite_note-2

[BAF]

lol i wonder if they are going to hang speaker phones on that minaret and start preaching like in the middle east? :p wouldnt wanna live near that thing :p

[b0sco]

3.2 Million Euros contributed by the EU and the state of North Rhine-Westphalia to build it.


And the police here doesn't have proper radios. Awesome.

[aimforthemedic]

lol i wonder if they are going to hang speaker phones on that minaret and start preaching like in the middle east? :p wouldnt wanna live near that thing :p

Yup, thats fun to hear 5 times a damn day. :-*$<-- My thought process near the end of my second deployment.

[AmandlaEwetu]

Didn't Himmler wish that Germany was a Muslim instead of a Christian state so they would be more aggresive-funny old world

[Weasel]

3.2 Million Euros contributed by the EU and the state of North Rhine-Westphalia to build it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duisburg#cite_note-2

400 billions for poor investment bankers - in Germany alone..

[Macs.]

400 billions for poor investment bankers - in Germany alone..

You know, you are are really a Weasle. You flip flop faster than anything else. If it was 3.2 Million for something else you would be the first to come here and whine about the goverment spending money for ****. Do you even have a a opinion or do you make up a new one for every thread ? Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.

[mas-36]

If a Christian church wanted to build the largest church, could they expect the same generous EU funding and a receptive Muslim population? I'd like to know how much, if at all, was funded by Saudis?



Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.

I agree 110%, with a caveat: All funding should be from private donors, not at taxpayer's expense. The EU was wrong in giving over 3 million Euros for this, unless it is not opposed to doing the same for Christians or other religions. Also, all funding should not come from outside the EU (Saudi A., Iran,etc...)

[Silent Reader]

i don't think that many people would complain if it had loudspeakers.
Marxloh basically is something like little Istanbul with a Turkish / muslim majority. most of the shops there on the main road are Turkish (and half of those shops are shops for wedding dresses)
personally i think its okay to have a mosque here (i live in Duisburg) - though i live maybe 2km or so away from it.

btw
Duisburg is also home to the biggest (afaik) synagogue in western Germany and there nobody made a big deal about it when it was build about 10 years ago... although Duisburg has a pretty big muslim community
(for the Germans - it was featured in one of the Tatort/Schimanksi movies :D)

/edit
there won't be any lodspeakers etc on the mosque

[Henry's Fork]

Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent.

Quoted for awesomeness and cold hard truth.

I wonder, does Germany hand out tax exempts to religious organizations, like we do here in the US?

[Military-G]

You know, you are are really a Weasle. You flip flop faster than anything else. If it was 3.2 Million for something else you would be the first to come here and whine about the goverment spending money for ****. Do you even have a a opinion or do you make up a new one for every thread ? Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.

Spot on macs :)

[Silent Reader]

Quoted for awesomeness and cold hard truth.

I wonder, does Germany hand out tax exempts to religious organizations, like we do here in the US?


yes we do

thats why there is so much trouble with scientology - they want to be recognized as a religion like in the US while in Germany they are classified as an economic enterprise (among other things) - this means no tax exempts for them :)

[jetsetter]

Looks quite impressive.

[Henry's Fork]

yes we do

thats why there is so much trouble with scientology - they want to be recognized as a religion like in the US while in Germany they are classified as an economic enterprise (among other things) - this means no tax exempts for them :)

Thats a shame. Good looking out on the tom cruise cult, they are some extra wierd elitists.

On the other side of the coin, we do have freedom of worship, and as much as i dislike the "cults", i will back that right by all means, or until they kill/jihad/sacrifice me for being a weak nonbeliever. ;)

[2495]

The EU just paid 3 million euros into its own downfall. Until the islamic world is as equal to religions as we are in europe, it should be banned out right unless its in private homes.

Filthy eyesore, and you bet your life saudi wouldn't let a 300 foot high catherdral be built in down town desert'dom.

Oh and don't even get me started on that monstrosity they are planning on building for the 2012 olympics in London. Seen the size of it? and guess what? the saudis are stumping up the cash. Suprise bloody suprise.

[Silent Reader]

Thats a shame. Good looking out on the tom cruise cult, they are some extra wierd elitists.

On the other side of the coin, we do have freedom of worship, and as much as i dislike the "cults", i will back that right by all means, or until they kill/jihad/sacrifice me for being a weak nonbeliever. ;)


well we also have freedom of worship, its not like scientology was banned - they just have to pay taxes and won't get any government jobs since they are also widely regarded as anti-democratic
though most religions are to some extend - the catholic church/ the Vatican is the only absolutist regime left in western Europe - and everyone tolerates it for some reason ^^

[Weasel]

You know, you are are really a Weasle. You flip flop faster than anything else. If it was 3.2 Million for something else you would be the first to come here and whine about the goverment spending money for ****. Do you even have a a opinion or do you make up a new one for every thread ? Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.

I have an opinion. It´s the opposide of yours.

[Silent Reader]

The EU just paid 3 million euros into its own downfall. Until the islamic world is as equal to religions as we are in europe, it should be banned out right unless its in private homes.

Filthy eyesore, and you bet your life saudi wouldn't let a 300 foot high catherdral be built in down town desert'dom.

Oh and don't even get me started on that monstrosity they are planning on building for the 2012 olympics in London. Seen the size of it? and guess what? the saudis are stumping up the cash. Suprise bloody suprise.


this is what i call pure paranoid bs :D

honestly.. how can someone be so afraid of a few mosques? its not like there will be a muslim majority in the west within the next few decades or centuries.. and so far i haven't seen any steps taken to introduce sharia law in the EU

i personally am atheist and i too don't really like the idea of government spending money for any religion - but this is not the end of the world...

[Henry's Fork]

the catholic church/ the Vatican is the only absolutist regime left in western Europe - and everyone tolerates it for some reason ^^

LOL wondered that myself.

People seem to loose their doubt after a nice relaxing Italian vacation with a visit to Vatican City. All the bling bling in the Vatican alone almost lured me back in their clutches as well.

[Rictor]

Didn't Himmler wish that Germany was a Muslim instead of a Christian state so they would be more aggresive-funny old world

Hitler actually, but yeah. He lamented the fact that the Muslims had been turned back at Tours. In his view, Arabs would have brought the religion to Germany, but their inherent genetic inferiority compared to the hardy Teutonic peoples would have meant that Islamized Aryans, and not Arabs, would have come to rule a vast and militaristic Caliphate.

It is indeed a funny world.

[Macs.]

I have an opinion. It´s the opposide of yours.

Yeah, just like I thought. Mindless. :)

[m.i.t]

İn last 7 years 32 little churches or chappels opened by missonaries in only istanbul

city..Most of them belong different christian groups potestants or catholics ...No one said any negative

comments....

Also currently istanbul has more than active 142 churches and Greek head orthodox

church is among them....No one feel any disturbing...

Some inactive ones also rebuilded or repaired by state funds like heybeli ada church...

Most of them bells in every sunday mornings freely ....l dont know why Just one

mosque make worry so much people...

[2495]

İn last 7 years 32 little churches or chappels opened by missonaries in only istanbul

city..Most of them belong different christian groups potestants or catholics ...No one said any negative

comments....

Also currently istanbul has more than active 142 churches and Greek head orthodox

church is among them....No one feel any disturbing...

Some inactive ones also rebuilded or repaired by state funds like heybeli ada church...

Most of them bells in every sunday mornings freely ....l dont know why Just one

mosque make worry so much people...

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=5552&dos=70&size=A



Ankara (AsiaNews) – Tomorrow marks one month since the death of Fr Andrea Santoro. On Sunday, 5 February, in Trabzon – a Turkish city on the Black Sea – at the close of a day of protests and violence in the Islamic world because of Mohammed cartoons in some western newspapers, the 60-year-old Roman priest was shot dead by two bullets to his back. He had been kneeling in prayer in the back benches of the church, after having celebrated Sunday mass in the afternoon, as usual.
Turkish police said a 16-year-old youth had shot him, shouting "Allah is great". The murderer was duly arrested, political and religious leaders condemned the act, and most public opinion declared itself appalled, while the haggard Christian community mourned its friend, witness and martyr.
Now, it is as if nothing as happened for the media, which now and again fans the flames with their accusations of proselytism; everything seems to have returned to a chilling normality.

Oh yeah, Turkey is a real enlightend place, for sure it is. Don't worry though, this isn't a bash against Turkey, its a bash at the spread and spread of Saudi finaced fundimentalism. This one mosque, that one mosque... they spread and spread, and you have to end up doing a Balkans after the Pakistanis have filled it to the brim with saudi sponsored nutters.

[m.i.t]

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=5552&dos=70&size=A


This one mosque, that one mosque... they spread and spread, and you have to end up doing a Balkans after the Pakistanis have filled it to the brim with saudi sponsored nutters.

sadly He was 16 years old fanatic imbecile 1500 km away from istanbul and
Turkey has 72 M people...Ofcourse every country has own fanatic maniacs.

But dont worry dude. Turkey is secular state and all religions and faiths

have equal situations....

[Weasel]

Yeah, just like I thought. Mindless. :)

Moppelkotze

[Lee]

muslims are acting like they are in Germany to stay. But I can't help feel that the Germans are going to wake up from their slumber and clean the stables one day. I suppose its going to take a severe economic depression along with a civil war and then the rise of a strong central figure to get them out. All could happen one day.

[Macs.]

muslims are acting like they are in Germany to stay. But I can't help feel that the Germans are going to wake up from their slumber and clean the stables one day. I suppose its going to take a severe economic depression along with a civil war and then the rise of a strong central figure to get them out. All could happen one day.

Oh no ! The same thing, happening to the same people AGAIN.

[Silent Reader]

muslims are acting like they are in Germany to stay. But I can't help feel that the Germans are going to wake up from their slumber and clean the stables one day. I suppose its going to take a severe economic depression along with a civil war and then the rise of a strong central figure to get them out. All could happen one day.


well they are going to stay.. actually many of them are German citizens today.
what you say is like saying it needs a new civil war in the US to get the blacks out again or some similar stupidity... ^^

lol Macs :D

[PeterG]

muslims are acting like they are in Germany to stay. But I can't help feel that the Germans are going to wake up from their slumber and clean the stables one day. I suppose its going to take a severe economic depression along with a civil war and then the rise of a strong central figure to get them out. All could happen one day.

It's us europeans that will be 'cleaned out' some day. We're working tirelessly for this to happen one day - the sooner the better, it seems.

[muck]

So what? According to the Ministry of the Interior, 40 percent of all German muslims are radical and would use violence to fight for their believes. 13 percent are radicals and support the "holy war" and suicide attacks. Does a nice big church make better citizens out of them? I don't think so.
And why the feck do they even receive tax moneys for their mosques?

400 billions for poor investment bankers - in Germany alone..Get the feck off this thread with your poor argumentation. This is so utterly stupid and so far beyond the point of the topic that I don't even know how to adress it properly.
:roll:

[Silent Reader]

So what? According to the Ministry of the Interior, 40 percent of all German muslims are radical and would use violence to fight for their believes. 13 percent are radicals and support the "holy war" and suicide attacks. Does a nice big church make better citizens out of them? I don't think so.


first of all.. the Turkish community which build this mosque is considered moderate and very integrated and why should't they have their own mosque? it doesn't make them more violent? to the contrary.. such mosques in the middle of the public are better than any backalley mosques hidden from the public. in this sense it might be positive for integration and public education.
do i think the government should pay taxmoney for it? no. but then there are far worse things one could do with the money and seeing it from the positive side.. such a big mosque could be good for tourism in a very limited way.

concerning the will to defend their beliefs.. it depends how the question was asked.. if you ask a question like this for example in the US bible belt region the numbers would probably the same.

concerning the 13% number.. yes these are sympathizers but the Verfassungsschutz regards only about 3.000 of the 3 million muslims as extremists willing to commit terrorist acts or violence. these are about 0.1% of them (Link (http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article1159630/Gewaltbereite_Islamisten_in_Deutschland.html)). then you would also have to ask yourself how many Germans for example are symperthizers of extreme rightwing politics etc? people like these are in every society - regardless of nationality or religion

[Thrasymachus]

Meanwhile in the Turkish press:



http://islaminturkey.blogspot.com/2008/10/pro-censorship-theologian-confirms.html
... Professor [of Islamic law and columnist at Islamist Yeni Safak] Hayrettin Karaman, does not mince his words and tell the truth as is: Islam and Democracy does not mix easily due to Islam’s rejection of secularism and the principle of “separation of Church and State”. Why? Because Islam is not just a spiritual connection between an individual and her Creator but also a political system and a state ideology.

Here is what Karaman said on the issue (as reported by Turkish daily Milliyet, October 1, 2008):

“A secular person cannot be a Muslim. If some Muslims at the same time say “elhamdülillah I’m secular”, then they fall into a contradiction. If they are saying so without really beliving it, for fear or political reasons, then they are committing takiyye [a lie that Muslims are allowed to say when faced with danger]. But I not only refrain from saying “I’m a secular person” but I also openly declare that secularism cannot be commensurate with Islam. Also I’m not saying that “Muslims can begrudgingly become secular-democrats when they need to act so.” What I’m saying is this: “Muslims tolerate and effectively adapt to a secular-democrat regime not because these regimes are in line with Islam but because they are forced to do so – and their religion allows that in cases of exigency.””

[Anti_tanky]

"what leaders of Germany's 3 million Muslims have described as a watershed moment, bringing mosques out of the backyards and alleys and into the middle of urban life."

-Awesome (read; in your face)

That said, no offence to any English members here, but I think that it will be soon that the only thing that can save England from a complete, or at least significant transformation, will be a dominant facist government and a significant deal of social engineering. I had heard the stories from my in-law and found it hard to believe, until I actually went there recently to visit him and my sister not too long ago.

Would such a thing re-ignite the cyclical advent of facist VS detractor confrontation? - perhaps, but then again, how much personal investment does a citizen place upon the shrine of a slowly-dying culture and a fading way of life?

Not enough nowadays I think. The uncompromising PC nonsense isn't helping things either. Common sense is dead.

[Johnny_H02]

You know, you are are really a Weasle. You flip flop faster than anything else. If it was 3.2 Million for something else you would be the first to come here and whine about the goverment spending money for ****. Do you even have a a opinion or do you make up a new one for every thread ? Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.x2 could not agree more.

[Calanen]

Would such a thing re-ignite the cyclical advent of facist VS detractor confrontation? - perhaps, but then again, how much personal investment does a citizen place upon the shrine of a slowly-dying culture and a fading way of life?


Concerns about political correctness will become a longway secondplace to the worries about the economic mayhem that is coming for all of us. I dont think people quite realise, exactly how incredibly bad it is going to get.

If the right comes back - it will be a nationalistic sentiment without the racist idiocy that can be present. Right wing doesnt mean Nazi, no more than all left wing means communist.

It is ok to be proud of, and want to preserve your unique cultural heritage - whether that be Dutch, Danish, Flemish, French or English. That doesnt make you a race hater, or a Nazi - it just makes you proud of who you are. And you have the right to be proud of who you are, and maintain your uniqueness and specialness - without being ashamed of that.

[Weasel]

Get the feck off this thread with your poor argumentation. This is so utterly stupid and so far beyond the point of the topic that I don't even know how to adress it properly.
:roll:

It´s so utterly stupid to call it argumentation. It was a comparison!

Oh, and by the way. Nobody every complained about the mosque or the plans to build it. Stupid Germans, right?

[Anti_tanky]

It is ok to be proud of, and want to preserve your unique cultural heritage - whether that be Dutch, Danish, Flemish, French or English. That doesnt make you a race hater, or a Nazi - it just makes you proud of who you are. And you have the right to be proud of who you are, and maintain your uniqueness and specialness - without being ashamed of that.

A good number of fools would burn you at the stake, obstensibly and ironically for being a racist, Anglo-supremacist Nazi.

The clear difference between the radical right (eg; the Nazis) vs the moderate right, is that while the former had a core emphasis upon the assertion and expansion of their culture, the latter is concerned primarily with the (arguably) justified efforts of self preservation of itself and the subject identities and cultures therin.

A critical mass for establishing any real bulwark against cultural bullying is not likely to come about anytime soon, not at least until the vast majority feel a very tangible and undeniablle pressure or intrustion of sorts - if of course they are not feeling it already.

Still, generations later, the first world is very much weary of the aftermath of WW2. With millions dead as a reminder, the concept of cultural self-assertion has become a controversial topic that will likely have its proponents labeled as racist firebrands.

Common sense and hyper-logical expediency have taken a back seat so that we can punish ourselves in order to sleep easy at night, thinking better of ourselves for being so morally straight and accomodating.

[Pistol Prawn]

open a mosque? Why?

[Mr.K]

open a mosque? Why?
Suit the population's needs. (and win votes) p-)

[Lee]

well they are going to stay.. actually many of them are German citizens today.
what you say is like saying it needs a new civil war in the US to get the blacks out again or some similar stupidity... ^^

lol Macs :D

They are only German citizens on paper. The truth is to be a German one has to be of teutonic racial ancestry. That is the way it has always been throughout history and changes were made on paper after WW2. But that paper is just that--a piece of paper with some printed words that doesn't mean **** when it stands up against racial blood lines.

One must understand that before Christianity the religions of the Aryans were always tied in with the racial makeup of the people. Religion and race were one and the same thing. Now christianity only seemed to change that on the surface when they preached that all people have a soul and all people are equal no matter who they are. The ancient religion is embedded deeply in our aryan souls and no religion is going to change that. However, to the muslims race doesn't mean anything and has no bearing on who becomes a muslim or not.

I think Aryans are going to wake up one day and exercise their warrior heritage.

[Mr.K]

They are only German citizens on paper. The truth is to be a German one has to be of teutonic racial ancestry. That is the way it has always been throughout history and changes were made on paper after WW2. But that paper is just that--a piece of paper with some printed words that doesn't mean **** when it stands up against racial blood lines.

One must understand that before Christianity the religions of the Aryans were always tied in with the racial makeup of the people. Religion and race were one and the same thing. Now christianity only seemed to change that on the surface when they preached that all people have a soul and all people are equal no matter who they are. The ancient religion is embedded deeply in our aryan souls and no religion is going to change that. However, to the muslims race doesn't mean anything and has no bearing on who becomes a muslim or not.

I think Aryans are going to wake up one day and exercise their warrior heritage.


Sieg Hail?

[Indiana Jones]

They are only German citizens on paper. The truth is to be a German one has to be of teutonic racial ancestry. That is the way it has always been throughout history and changes were made on paper after WW2. But that paper is just that--a piece of paper with some printed words that doesn't mean **** when it stands up against racial blood lines.


Alter Schwede...I have some trouble maintaining my countenance here. What jewel of a post ! I am honestly amused and at the same time concerned. Where are you from, if I may ask ? Anyways, one need not be a historian to know that the Teutones proper from the time they first appear on the world stage have to a degree always mingled with Slavic, Dinaric, Celtic and various other ethnicities. Nationality and/or ethnicity are prima facie artificial constructs along real or perceived cultural and linguistical similarities. I know quite a number of Turks, Asians and black people who feel more "German" by virtue of their upbringing and citizenry than your cliché fair-haired sixth generation Teuton.
As for the rest, I won't even comment.

[Lee]

Alter Schwede...I have some trouble maintaining my countenance here. Hilarity ensues.
First off, one need not be a historian to know that the Teutones proper from the time they first appear on the world stage have to a degree always mingled with Slavic, Dinaric, Celtic and various other ethnicities. Nationality and/or ethnicity are prima facie artificial constructs along real or perceived cultural and linguistical similarities. I know quite a number of Turks, Asians and black people who feel more "German" by virtue of their upbringing and citizenry than your cliché fair-haired sixth generation Teuton.
As for the rest, I won't even comment.

you sound like a natural born intellectual who jumbles words around to come to the conclusion that you want to believe. You say nationality and/or ethnicity are arificial constructs? I have to laugh at your stupidity if you actually believe that. Its imperically obvious that there different nationalities and ethnics and if you can't see that your blind.

As far as turks, blacks, and asians feeling like Germans--well, let them feel like Germans but their not Germans. Oh, next you will tell me that there will be another black or asian or turk Beethoven, or rocket scientist, or one like the great German culture creators of the past. Genius is in the blood fella in case you don't know.

[Mr.Flint]

Sieg Hail?
x2.

Aryans?:cantbeli:
One would think that most people but Iranians and Nazi hacks got cured from that stupidity....

[Silent Reader]

you sound like a natural born intellectual who jumbles words around to come to the conclusion that you want to believe. You say nationality and/or ethnicity are arificial constructs? I have to laugh at your stupidity if you actually believe that. Its imperically obvious that there different nationalities and ethnics and if you can't see that your blind.

As far as turks, blacks, and asians feeling like Germans--well, let them feel like Germans but their not Germans. Oh, next you will tell me that there will be another black or asian or turk Beethoven, or rocket scientist, or one like the great German culture creators of the past. Genius is in the blood fella in case you don't know.

i honestly have to say that you are a really stupid person.. normally i wouldn't say something like that.. but you deserve it :roll:


on a sidenote
concerning the construction of ethnicity.. read about the genocide in Rwanda for example - Tutsi and Hutu were inventions of the Belgian colonizers and didn't exist as different ethicities before...

[toki]

They are only German citizens on paper. The truth is to be a German one has to be of teutonic racial ancestry. That is the way it has always been throughout history and changes were made on paper after WW2. But that paper is just that--a piece of paper with some printed words that doesn't mean **** when it stands up against racial blood lines.

One must understand that before Christianity the religions of the Aryans were always tied in with the racial makeup of the people. Religion and race were one and the same thing. Now christianity only seemed to change that on the surface when they preached that all people have a soul and all people are equal no matter who they are. The ancient religion is embedded deeply in our aryan souls and no religion is going to change that. However, to the muslims race doesn't mean anything and has no bearing on who becomes a muslim or not.

I think Aryans are going to wake up one day and exercise their warrior heritage.
Where are you from? I guess not Germany.
You know that Third Reich mythology is just that... faked mythology.
There is nothing like "pure German Aryan race". Just the oppossite, From the (very) old ages on Germany was a tribal melting pot. Due to the central geography, every other ancient migration led through what is now Germany. The modern geographical Nationstate has little to do with the history of the region. You won't find a sample-genotype. Sorry to burst your bubble. And if you think that you are German, because you have a German name from a German Greatgrandfather you're not.


Oh, next you will tell me that there will be another black or asian or turk Beethoven, or rocket scientist, or one like the great German culture creators of the past. Genius is in the blood fella in case you don't know.
Not in yours obviously.
"Alter Schwede" war schon passend... Meine Fresse.

[Deman]

melting pot:cantbeli:

[Kilgor]

Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.

X2 , I agree with this hun.

[IraGlacialis]

I think Aryans are going to wake up one day and exercise their warrior heritage.
Last I remember, the definition of Aryan refers to a Indo-Iranian, not Germanic, group of people.
Unless you are toting the the ideals of a certain little Austrian with a funny mustache.

Genius is in the blood fella in case you don't know.Brilliant post of the day.

[Kletterbuxe]

you sound like a natural born intellectual who jumbles words around to come to the conclusion that you want to believe. You say nationality and/or ethnicity are arificial constructs? I have to laugh at your stupidity if you actually believe that. Its imperically obvious that there different nationalities and ethnics and if you can't see that your blind.

As far as turks, blacks, and asians feeling like Germans--well, let them feel like Germans but their not Germans. Oh, next you will tell me that there will be another black or asian or turk Beethoven, or rocket scientist, or one like the great German culture creators of the past. Genius is in the blood fella in case you don't know.

Whats the name of your mental disability ?

[Atlantic Friend]

Every cent invested into Religion nonsense is a lost cent. Period.

Every PUBLIC cent, I agree, with the exception of what is invested in repairing religious buildings.

What people want to make with their own money is not for me to judge.

[Weasel]

Every PUBLIC cent, I agree, with the exception of what is invested in repairing religious buildings.

What people want to make with their own money is not for me to judge.

Don´t forget that the church has many social aspects.

[Macs.]

Don´t forget that the church has many social aspects.

...and don't forget that they also evade taxes AND demand taxmoney.

[Kletterbuxe]

By the way. The tax money and the EU money is only for the community center, not the mosque. It´s supposed to be a inter-religous meeting point.

[Tyon]

Sieg Hail?

More like sieg fail...



@Topic: Its just a mosque. The cristians have their churches, the jews their new shiny synagogues and the muslims get finally their mosques after a long time in backyard factories. So what? Just a mosque...

[Holycrusader]

As far as turks, blacks, and asians feeling like Germans--well, let them feel like Germans but their not Germans. Oh, next you will tell me that there will be another black or asian or turk Beethoven, or rocket scientist, or one like the great German culture creators of the past. Genius is in the blood fella in case you don't know.


I really wonder if there is a need for posters like you on this forum...

[Kletterbuxe]

I really wonder if there is a need for posters like you on this forum...

Couldn´t agree more...

[Lee]

i honestly have to say that you are a really stupid person.. normally i wouldn't say something like that.. but you deserve it :roll:


on a sidenote
concerning the construction of ethnicity.. read about the genocide in Rwanda for example - Tutsi and Hutu were inventions of the Belgian colonizers and didn't exist as different ethicities before...

How do you know that the Tutsi and Hutu didn't exid before? They sure the hell did. There's no way some foreign country is going to divide the same blood line into two different groups that feel cuturally and racially different. I read that the Tutsi(or maybe it was Hutu) is the most artistocratic of the africans. So there is a difference right there that the Belgians didn't create but was natures creation.

[Lee]

Where are you from? I guess not Germany.
You know that Third Reich mythology is just that... faked mythology.
There is nothing like "pure German Aryan race". Just the oppossite, From the (very) old ages on Germany was a tribal melting pot. Due to the central geography, every other ancient migration led through what is now Germany. The modern geographical Nationstate has little to do with the history of the region. You won't find a sample-genotype. Sorry to burst your bubble. And if you think that you are German, because you have a German name from a German Greatgrandfather you're not.


Not in yours obviously.
"Alter Schwede" war schon passend... Meine Fresse.

No I'm not from Germany but that doesn't have anything to do with my views on whats right for the Germans. As far as the third reich goes that is past and gone and I don't promote any third reich revival or anything like that.

True the Germans may be mixed to some degree but their mixture is of a tribal nature not racial. if they were mixed racially they would look like the iranians.

[Lee]

When Germany finally decides to send the foreigners home it would be wise to dismantle their mosques piece by piece and send them back with the turks to avoid any controversy that might surround action like the bulldozing of mosques.

[Atlantic Friend]

When Germany finally decides to send the foreigners home it would be wise to dismantle their mosques piece by piece and send them back with the turks to avoid any controversy that might surround action like the bulldozing of mosques.

You don't think there might be some controversy amongst Germans from European stock when religious buildings are bulldozed ?

[Laworkerbee]

Pure entertainment this thread is http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8408/1947eatingpopcornanddrimt4.gif

[Raptus_regaliter]

When Germany finally decides to send the foreigners home it would be wise to dismantle their mosques piece by piece and send them back with the turks to avoid any controversy that might surround action like the bulldozing of mosques.

Psst. Head back to stormfront - I'm sure they're missing you.

[tsuri]

I fortunately escaped to Scotland while this thing was opened. Lots of security, lots of police and pretty hard to get in or out of Marxloh during that time, so I heard at least.

It is pretty ugly, does not fit the surroundings much. While I am not familiar with the way mosques are supposed to be built, it does stand out very much in a part of the city that is in 99% constructed from red bricks. Even the churches for that matter.

But well, it is an improvement over the older mosques they have. Basically backstreet buildings, tiny and cramped and in disrepair. Not very fitting for representative purposes. But the new environment is not really much better. Across the street from there, they filmed scenes for "Das Wunder von Bern" because the original look of a bombed out and totally destroyed city street from the early 1950s had been perfectly preserved there. Just to give you an idea...

Money given to the building project was also not used on the mosque. They have constructed a community center thing next to it, which is supposed to be used as a meeting place between muslims and Germans. That whole thinking alienates me a bit because I see the people praying there as Germans, why would I need a center to visit them? I also doubt that this will see much use but it looks good for the ministry anyways.

[tea drinker]

So WHat if there is a huge mosque in doucheburg?

[IraGlacialis]

It is pretty ugly, does not fit the surroundings much. While I am not familiar with the way mosques are supposed to be built, it does stand out very much in a part of the city that is in 99% constructed from red bricks. Even the churches for that matter.
x2

Probably an attempt to recreate some of the Ottoman classics such as the Sultan Ahmet, Yeni Cami, or Selimiye mosques.
What it instead looks like is some failed cheap megachurch-ish knockoff that doesn't, like you stated, fit in with it's surroundings. And there have been excellent mosques built in the past that have been red brick or at least something close to that.
Sinan must be gyrating in his tomb.

[Silent Reader]

How do you know that the Tutsi and Hutu didn't exid before? They sure the hell did. There's no way some foreign country is going to divide the same blood line into two different groups that feel cuturally and racially different. I read that the Tutsi(or maybe it was Hutu) is the most artistocratic of the africans. So there is a difference right there that the Belgians didn't create but was natures creation.


if you have no idea what you are talking about then just shut the fvck up

Tutsi, Hutu and Twa are creations of the Belgians
after a census (in 1934/35) in the then Belgian colony everyone who owned much livestock (actually just more than 10 animals) was declared a Tutsi, everyone with less was declared a Hutu (Twa were mostly potters). The Tutsi were "created" by the Belgians so that they would have an elite upper class which would help them rule and administrate the colony.
The only difference between Hutu, Tutsi and Twa was their social status - they share the same culture, the same language etc. The Belgians also introduced ID cards which included the information to which of the new "classes" each Rwandan belonged. These ID cards were still in use at the time of the genocide and Hutu often identified their enemies just with these ID cards if they didn't know before to which side they belonged. The ID cards were abolished after the genocide and officially there is now no more distinction between Hutu, Tutsi and Twa in the official language of Rwanda - today all are to be called Banyarwanda. But of course the wounds are deep and many still identify themself with the old terms - in addition to this neighboring countries still hold on to this artifical distinction.

Its all on the internet... so read it and keep quiet before you have read it

[deli_dumrul]

if you have no idea what you are talking about then just shut the fvck up

Tutsi, Hutu and Twa are creations of the Belgians
after a census (in 1934/35) in the then Belgian colony everyone who owned much livestock (actually just more than 10 animals) was declared a Tutsi, everyone with less was declared a Hutu (Twa were mostly potters). The Tutsi were "created" by the Belgians so that they would have an elite upper class which would help them rule and administrate the colony.
The only difference between Hutu, Tutsi and Twa was their social status - they share the same culture, the same language etc. The Belgians also introduced ID cards which included the information to which of the new "classes" each Rwandan belonged. These ID cards were still in use at the time of the genocide and Hutu often identified their enemies just with these ID cards if they didn't know before to which side they belonged. The ID cards were abolished after the genocide and officially there is now no more distinction between Hutu, Tutsi and Twa in the official language of Rwanda - today all are to be called Banyarwanda. But of course the wounds are deep and many still identify themself with the old terms - in addition to this neighboring countries still hold on to this artifical distinction.

Its all on the internet... so read it and keep quiet before you have read it

This is why I like this site so much... Information about stuff that I am completely clueless, ignorant about. It just hits you in the face.

Thanks for the informative post.

[kvk1]

More like sieg fail...
Well played chap....well played.

[Pezy]

(...)
and so far i haven't seen any steps taken to introduce sharia law in the EU
(...)


Islamic Law (its Ottoman version) is operative in W. Thrace, Greece by the indigenous muslim minority living there (Turks, gypsies...). A few months ago I also watched on TV a professor saying that the Greek Law School there will start teaching it. Calanen are you reading this? p-)

Since Greece recognizes some legal actions coming from Islamic Law for her indigenous minority, some EU countries may be obliged to do so too; it's an EU principle thing. Remember a case that was brought to the German courts, about the recognition of a marriage between an adult 'Greek' muslim with a 12(?) year old girl? The German judge gave his 'Ok', at least that was the first rule, didn't follow it further.

There are people that want to modernize this backward version of Islamic Law but it's a taboo for Greece since Turkey can use the muslims to stir things up.

[Silent Reader]

Islamic Law (its Ottoman version) is operative in W. Thrace, Greece by the indigenous muslim minority living there (Turks, gypsies...). A few months ago I also watched on TV a professor saying that the Greek Law School there will start teaching it. Calanen are you reading this? p-)

Since Greece recognizes some legal actions coming from Islamic Law for her indigenous minority, some EU countries may be obliged to do so too; it's an EU principle thing. Remember a case that was brought to the German courts, about the recognition of a marriage between an adult 'Greek' muslim with a 12(?) year old girl? The German judge gave his 'Ok', at least that was the first rule, didn't follow it further.

There are people that want to modernize this backward version of Islamic Law but it's a taboo for Greece since Turkey can use the muslims to stir things up.


hmm.. but i think such traditional courts etc or sharia for example would most likely be only allowed as long as it does not violate the constitution or any existing laws of the respective country. though i don't know how Greece actually handles this.

concerning the marriage case:
i found this: Link to pdf (http://www.robert-orth.de/asp/Bilder/EheeinesGriechen.pdf) (German)

The girl was actually sent back to her parents in Greece - so the German judge didn't give an ok but said since she as well as her husband are of Greek nationality and they were married outside of Germany the Greek jurisdiction is responsible for this issue. But in Germany they were not allowed to live as a married couple.
German members of parliament also asked the Greek parliament to take steps to prevent such child-marriages in the future and seemingly also had the support of a Greek-Muslim member of the Greek parliament - though the text does not mention if this actually resulted in new laws in Greece.

[timetraveller]

well we also have freedom of worship, its not like scientology was banned - they just have to pay taxes and won't get any government jobs since they are also widely regarded as anti-democratic
though most religions are to some extend - the catholic church/ the Vatican is the only absolutist regime left in western Europe - and everyone tolerates it for some reason ^^


Big Jock knew ....they were a Political power in the early days ....

Any man of god doesn't use the sword ...

jesus and his desciples never used any violence , violence was used against them...

Rome killed the son of god , and now Rome is the home of catholic religion ..

yet why will they never release the writings of nostradamuos /

Apolgoies for goin on

[timetraveller]

So WHat if there is a huge mosque in doucheburg?

my thoughts exactly ....

[Shadowstorm]

Pure entertainment this thread is http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8408/1947eatingpopcornanddrimt4.gif
Yep, with Lee starring in the show with bulls**t.

[Pezy]

(...)
The girl was actually sent back to her parents in Greece - so the German judge didn't give an ok but said since she as well as her husband are of Greek nationality and they were married outside of Germany the Greek jurisdiction is responsible for this issue. But in Germany they were not allowed to live as a married couple.
(...)

Pardon me but I believe it was the decision of the German judge that brought the attention and public outcry to this case. Obviously later the rule was overturned.



(...)
German members of parliament also asked the Greek parliament to take steps to prevent such child-marriages in the future and seemingly also had the support of a Greek-Muslim member of the Greek parliament - though the text does not mention if this actually resulted in new laws in Greece.

LoL hypocritical bastards... the same would vote for imposing sanctions on Greece for alleged minority oppression if Greece tried anything like that.