U.S. has plundered world wealth with dlr -China paper

[joka]

BEIJING, Oct 24 (*******) - The United States has plundered global wealth by exploiting the dollar's dominance, and the world urgently needs other currencies to take its place, a leading Chinese state newspaper said on Friday.
The front-page commentary in the overseas edition of the People's Daily said that Asian and European countries should banish the U.S. dollar from their direct trade relations for a start, relying only on their own currencies.
A meeting between Asian and European leaders, starting on Friday in Beijing, presented the perfect opportunity to begin building a new international financial order, the newspaper said.
The People's Daily is the official newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party. The Chinese-language overseas edition is a small circulation offshoot of the main paper.
Its ****ouncements do not necessarily directly voice leadership views. But the commentary, as well as recent comments, amount to a growing chorus of Chinese disdain for Washington's economic policies and global financial dominance in the wake of the credit crisis (http://www.*******.com/news/globalcoverage/creditcrisis).
"The grim reality has led people, amidst the panic, to realise that the United States has used the U.S. dollar's hegemony to plunder the world's wealth," said the commentator, Shi Jianxun, a professor at Shanghai's Tongji University.
Shi, who has before been strident in his criticism of the U.S., said other countries had lost vast amounts of wealth because of the financial crisis, while Washington's sole concern had been protecting its own interests.
"The U.S. dollar is losing people's confidence. The world, acting democratically and lawfully through a global financial organisation, urgently needs to change the international monetary system based on U.S. global economic leadership and U.S. dollar dominance," he wrote.
Shi suggested that all trade between Europe and Asia should be settled in euros, pounds, yen and yuan, though he did not explain how the Chinese currency could play such a role since it is not convertible on the capital account.
******* (http://www.*******.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSPEK466920081024)

I think the People's Daily take on it is a little harsh, but a development where the world is on a more equal footing is very desirable.

[Alpheus]

Oh, those chicoms crack me up every time. :lol:

[JJC]

Does this mean that U.S. will see less of "made in china" crap? I'm sick and tired of China assembled slippers, gadgets and batteries, ripping, braking or exploding on me with in weeks of purchase.

[BearInBunnySuit]

...Shi suggested that all trade between Europe and Asia should be settled in euros, pounds, yen and yuan, though he did not explain how the Chinese currency could play such a role since it is not convertible on the capital account.

Doh!

In all seriousness, the greenback became the dominant currency because people trusted the government that backed it. Would people feel the same way about the yuan with the current Chinese regime behind it? Somehow, I don't think so.

[loganinkosovo]

Had to take it before Ol' Charlie ChiCom stole it!

So it's all just Sour Lichees.......

:)

[Shadowstorm]

Same here, I'm tired hearing about recalled "Made in China" products.

[tea drinker]

Same here, I'm tired hearing about recalled "Made in China" products.
Yeah?
Now imagine how much crap ISN'T recalled.... and slips through the net.
Much respect to the Chinese people but I wouldn't use anything from there without washing it first.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Wishful thinking on somebody's part. The reality is that the dollar is the dominant currency at the moment because of the convertibility, value and stability it represents in comparison to alternatives. Any substitute will have to prove it's worth in the marketplace...much to the dismay of authoritarian governments...one can't just make a ****ouncement and have the marketplace fall in lock-step.

[joka]

Oh, those chicoms crack me up every time. :lol:

Regardless of who wrote the article or why, the point remains the same. The US has enjoyed a significant advantage due to the position of it's currency, no plundering involved per se it's just the way things are done, but now there are those in The EU and China who want in on the action. Everybody gots to get theirs.

[Kilgor]

How about China STFU and practise what they preach, and float their currency.

You can't complain about manipulation of the USD when they keep their own currency artificially low.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Wishful thinking on somebody's part. The reality is that the dollar is the dominant currency at the moment because of the convertibility, value and stability it represents in comparison to alternatives. Any substitute will have to prove it's worth in the marketplace...much to the dismay of authoritarian governments...one can't just make a ****ouncement and have the marketplace fall in lock-step.

As much as I'm a commie I agree.

Before the power of the US currency came along after WW1 it was the British Pound/Gold that was the standard.

Fact is which ever countries/empire economy has the biggest global reach it's currency will be the one used in global trade.

[Blue_0]

Are we actually forcing anyone to use the dollar? There is nothing to stop them form carrying out trade in whatever currency they want if I remember right.

[Bulletproof]

If the US dollar worth something it's because people have confidence in it. Does the people are losing confidence in the US dollar? I don't think so. Whoever wrote this global wealth plundering bull**** can go back to his rice field if he's not happy.


ut the commentary, as well as recent comments, amount to a growing chorus of Chinese disdain for Washington's economic policies and global financial dominance in the wake of the credit crisis.

They can always go back to what China used to be 50 or 60 years ago.

[Buffalo_soldier]

It's pretty well established that the US has struct an agreement with the Saudi's and co to sell the oil in dollars. Therefore, in a way we are forced to use dollars.

China is right on the money - almost literally. There's no need to be bitter about it. In a few years time that cheap chinese crap will be quality goods in much the same vein that Japanese goods improved remarkably.

[sinophile]

It's pretty well established that the US has struct an agreement with the Saudi's and co to sell the oil in dollars. Therefore, in a way we are forced to use dollars. China is right on the money - almost literally. There's no need to be bitter about it. In a few years time that cheap chinese crap will be quality goods in much the same vein that Japanese goods improved remarkably.

Their point is the US dollar should not be a worldwide reserve currency. Its nothing to do with exports except indirectly. Why despite the rise of the European Union, China and Japan the dollar retains primacy; and now rises relative to the Euro?

And what deal was struck with Canada, Nigeria, Venezuela and Mexico who (combined) supply more oil to the US than the Saudis?

[Anti_tanky]

While I can understand to a degree the inherant "chicom blacklash" going on, I can't help but observe that a lot of it is Continental American, or even just Western sinophobia in general.

China's sphere of influence will grow, of that there is no doubt and in the current economic and political climate, it is inevitable. The most important thing is arriving at a situation that benefits as many people as possible, as opposed to the hegemony that has persisted up until this day.

The arrow flinging from both sides is a standard occurance during times of major and turbulent change anyway, but what will happen will happen irregardless.

Personally, I find other issues to be of higher importance when compared to the inevitability of socio-economic evolution. I'm referring of course to the spread and proliferation of a certain expansionist faith of unconditional intolerance and assimilation.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Their point is the US dollar should not be a worldwide reserve currency. Its nothing to do with exports except indirectly. Why despite the rise of the European Union, China and Japan the dollar retains primacy; and now rises relative to the Euro?

It's risen relative to the Euro (recently) because of relative levels of confidence expressed by the market. One can't objectively say it "should not be" a worldwide reserve currency ...it is just that, because the market accepts and backs it. Things will change when they change, and at the moment, people are bailing out of some other currencies, other markets, other commodities (like oil, yikes). IMO, when somebody else produces a superior economy, government and currency (and they will, some day I'm sure) - then the dollar will be replaced. My point in a nutshell is that this is not a policy decision for somebody to make. It's a manifestation of global economic realities.

[epictetus]

Right....we should take advice from a commie dictatorship. I wonder what their economy would look like if they stop manipulating their currency

[LRPV]

Wishful thinking on somebody's part. The reality is that the dollar is the dominant currency at the moment because of the convertibility, value and stability it represents in comparison to alternatives. Any substitute will have to prove it's worth in the marketplace...much to the dismay of authoritarian governments...one can't just make a ****ouncement and have the marketplace fall in lock-step.

Agreed, but with what I'll label "Pan-anti-Americanism" becoming politically acceptable, I'd expect to see an attempt to push the Euro again in 2009.

What I haven't seen in this thread so far is anything on the Chinese foreign reserves of USD. The Chinese can't have it both ways, give Uncle Sam a kick in the nuts and have a firm grip on said nuts.

[Flagg]

Possessing the global reserve currency provides unequalled and invaluable benefits.

Incredible ABUSE of those invaluable benefits is the reason why the world is complaining about it.

It's like having a magic genie in a bottle.......and using it as an ashtray and urinal.



The words Stan Lee penned "With great power comes great responsibility" in Spider Man are pretty relevant right about now.

Just the mere POSSIBILITY of the US Dollar getting replaced by a basket of currencies should result in the responsible parties getting the pimp hand....but no

[Flagg]

Agreed, but with what I'll label "Pan-anti-Americanism" becoming politically acceptable, I'd expect to see an attempt to push the Euro again in 2009.

The Euro itself is in trouble...........currencies can be a bit like varieties of steel....some are quite maleable and can bend substantially without breaking...others are far harder...but much more brittle.......some European economies are INCREDIBLY exposed to emerging markets..........Switzerland, Spain, UK, Sweden, etc are incredibly exposed(to the tune of 25-60% of GDP) to the likes of collapsing Eastern Europe economies.

What I haven't seen in this thread so far is anything on the Chinese foreign reserves of USD. The Chinese can't have it both ways, give Uncle Sam a kick in the nuts and have a firm grip on said nuts.


If you are a member of China's leadership and you are dealt the following hand:

Your main opponent possesses unmatched and almost god-like abilities to militarily annihilate it's enemies, but your main opponent has to borrow money from YOU to do it.

How would you proceed?

"Gimme my monies b!tch!"

[I can't think of a name]

Google "Dollar Hegemony".

Also who is China to complain when their biggest customer is the USA (who happens to use....dollars).

If they don't want to be beholden to the dollar maybe they should find somone else who can by their crap by the trillions.

The Chinese leadership is upset because they cannot make up ground with the USA. Their economy is tied to the hip with ours. Like people here have mentioned, if they floated their currency they would being to loose their "cheap advantage".

Also the news is leaking about about massive lay offs and factory closures in Guangdong. The "New" China has no system of governance to deal with this, it may turn violent. The biggest threat to the Chinese leadership is a lot of unemployed and pissed off Chinese. Look up the "peasant revolutions" that happen periodically in China. Many Chinese will soon not have a job and have little savings. They will look up and see that every party official got stinking rich off the economic boom and that the citizen got nothing.

The Chinese (like everyone else) acted like the economic growth would never end. Trust me that it will be a much harder adjustment for them than it will be here in the US.

[Buffalo_soldier]

And what deal was struck with Canada, Nigeria, Venezuela and Mexico who (combined) supply more oil to the US than the Saudis?

It's not about the US buying oil by the dollar.

It's about forcing everyone else too.

[joka]

Agreed, but with what I'll label "Pan-anti-Americanism" becoming politically acceptable, I'd expect to see an attempt to push the Euro again in 2009.

Why would it be anti-Americanism to pursue the interests of EU citizens? I'd expect the EU to not wait until 2009 to push for the euro but do so constantly with vigour.

[XShipRider]

Google "Dollar Hegemony".

Also who is China to complain when their biggest customer is the USA (who happens to use....dollars).

If they don't want to be beholden to the dollar maybe they should find somone else who can by their crap by the trillions.




They have to dump their toxin laced products somewhere, why not here?

[Flagg]

They have to dump their toxin laced products somewhere, why not here?


Your answer is quite confusing...to which nation are you referring?

Trying to take an impartial viewpoint are you referring to the toxic Chinese lead-flavoured and aspestos filled toys sold to the US?

Or are you referring to the toxic MBS, CDO, or credit default swaps the US sold to China?

It really could be interpreted either way.

[Flagg]

Why would it be anti-Americanism to pursue the interests of EU citizens? I'd expect the EU to not wait until 2009 to push for the euro but do so constantly with vigour.

The Euro is broken as well.....EU banks are hip deep in the poo too.....and are highly exposed to incredibly vulnerable Eastern European economies on the brink of failure.

[vinny_121_ND]

Does this mean that U.S. will see less of "made in china" crap? I'm sick and tired of China assembled slippers, gadgets and batteries, ripping, braking or exploding on me with in weeks of purchase.

Actually, it's foreign investors who contract out chinese firms the designs to make them. I don't blame these chinese firms for doing business with these big companies. My dad is the most senior software engineer for nortel, and it's sad that so many jobs in north america are being sent to china and india because of the salary difference. It's all about bottom line in this cutthroat world now.

[Flagg]

Actually, it's foreign investors who contract out chinese firms the designs to make them. I don't blame these chinese firms for doing business with these big companies. My dad is the most senior software engineer for nortel, and it's sad that so many jobs in north america are being sent to china and india because of the salary difference. It's all about bottom line in this cutthroat world now.

As I've stated before........if you are in a field that is "exportable", you need to climb the ladder faster than those beneath you(in terms of continuing education/skillset development) for your entire career to ensure continued employment.....or risk wage/employment attrition.

My mate's a self-employed plumber.......he makes more money than even some of the quite affluent folks I know and because of the average age of plumbers around here being about 117 years old he's got the kind of employment security most would kill for......when my kids are older I'm going to suggest they become nanotechnologists......or plumbers.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

The Euro is broken as well.....EU banks are hip deep in the poo too.....and are highly exposed to incredibly vulnerable Eastern European economies on the brink of failure.

Australian banks a pretty well insulated from all this and I think only one bank is directly affected by the credit crunch.

AUD should be the currency of choice. It's floated on the markets but also regulated to a point that you know. It pwns.

[Calanen]

Australian banks a pretty well insulated from all this and I think only one bank is directly affected by the credit crunch.

AUD should be the currency of choice. It's floated on the markets but also regulated to a point that you know. It pwns.

Seems the markets disagree. It's been devalued by about 30 per cent in the last month.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

So has every major currency.

We have to be careful but. As we are a major exporter of resources a high valuation of the AUD will **** with the resource industry.

[Flagg]

Australian banks a pretty well insulated from all this and I think only one bank is directly affected by the credit crunch.

AUD should be the currency of choice. It's floated on the markets but also regulated to a point that you know. It pwns.

That's right...they are SO insulated that government is suddenly offering blanket deposit insurance.

Your Oz coloured glasses are impeding your ability to see dire reality.

Non-bank finance is collapsing in Oz as we speak......both GE and GMAC have pulled the pin in the last few business days.

As I've stated before Australia will weather this financial storm better than most, but will still get hammered.

Now would be a good time to read up on Aussie economic history....specifically the 1970's and early 80's...then multiply it by about 2 or 3 in some sectors.

[Flagg]

So has every major currency.

We have to be careful but. As we are a major exporter of resources a high valuation of the AUD will **** with the resource industry.

Maybe you should go and find out why that is........

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Point I'm making is that the AUD has historically been a pretty stable currency despite all the financial dramas. Take the Asian crisis of a few years back.

As for protecting bank deposits. I would not read to much into that actually. Well not at this point. I'd say it's more of a preventative measure in case **** does hit the fan. IE there is warning signs lets do something. As opposed to the US where it's wait until the **** does hit the fan before they do anything.

[Flagg]

Point I'm making is that the AUD has historically been a pretty stable currency despite all the financial dramas.

You need to look at some charts........I just did...the Aussie against it's major trading partners currencies in 15 year charts looks like an EKG....ending with a jump off a cliff


Take the Asian crisis of a few years back.

What of it? Australia's bilateral trade with the nations most affected by the Long Term Capital Management and Soro's forex plundering was pretty thin in the greater context of things...that has since changed.

As for protecting bank deposits. I would not read to much into that actually. Well not at this point. I'd say it's more of a preventative measure in case **** does hit the fan. IE there is warning signs lets do something. As opposed to the US where it's wait until the **** does hit the fan before they do anything.

If you think Australia is doing anything superlative in the world of banking you are mistaken.

Everyone is in the sh!t and everyone is mimmicking everyone else's moves as REAL capital is like quicksilver and can move more quickly to where it is truly appreciated, faster than governments and central banks can react....hence all the very quiet talk of the possible return to capital controls to "fix" the problem.

Ahhh the good old days, when you had to beg permission to exchange some of your already taxed bits of paper for some bits of paper from another country.....that worked just great.

[SoCalEMT]

....hence all the very quiet talk of the possible return to capital controls to "fix" the problem.

Ahhh the good old days, when you had to beg permission to exchange some of your already taxed bits of paper for some bits of paper from another country.....that worked just great.


Sir, this rather insightful statement is the stuff of nightmares. Truly a freight train coming right at us. Shiver...

[Buffalo_soldier]

The US is like the starving ethiopian kid.

He's fat; he looks healthy; but really it is the advanced stages of starvation. Remember that problem is one that has come from the US. What i worry is that the US stability now is simply the calm before the storm.

[Flagg]

The US is like the starving ethiopian kid.

He's fat; he looks healthy; but really it is the advanced stages of starvation. Remember that problem is one that has come from the US. What i worry is that the US stability now is simply the calm before the storm.

I'm highly confident that the volatility we have seen isn't over....not even close.

We've got quite a few more financial grand mal seizures to go through before we get back to any sense of normality.

There's a LOT of still undisclosed systemic rot to be made public yet.

There's also the unknown with either candidate's SPECIFIC and IMMEDIATE remedies...which will likely require the INCOMING President to make some very public and very vocal remarks before the OUTGOING President has even left office.....the world simply can't wait until January.

The only thing I'm sure of is that the two will likely be highly coordinated to leverage the best sentiment response.

We live in very interesting times.

[Nano]

I'm highly confident that the volatility we have seen isn't over....not even close.

We've got quite a few more financial grand mal seizures to go through before we get back to any sense of normality.

There's a LOT of still undisclosed systemic rot to be made public yet.

There's also the unknown with either candidate's SPECIFIC and IMMEDIATE remedies...which will likely require the INCOMING President to make some very public and very vocal remarks before the OUTGOING President has even left office.....the world simply can't wait until January.

The only thing I'm sure of is that the two will likely be highly coordinated to leverage the best sentiment response.

We live in very interesting times.

Yeah the clown festival(remedies) has just gotten started and soon freedom will become further restricted. Shorting financial stocks was previously suspended. I'm of the opinion that shorting and various other real market tools will be suspended entirely at some point or another and like you said "capital controls" put in place. All the remedies are of the Stalinist Russia variety and everyone seems to be begging for more. If our elected officials had done their job and implemented a truer un-bias free market banking system then we would not have this problem.

The Fed is the underlying culprit to all of this and I'm not talking about Greenspan's "free market" spiel I'm talking about its centralized economic market planning power. The moral hazard that comes with special interests in the hill in banking and was part of the catalyst to all of this. People mix the idea of true government regulation with manipulation for someone's interests. That is the problem the government decided not to regulate for someone's interests. I'm of the notion that free markets work in un-biased(no conflict of interests) govenrment regulation where the government is a referee not a manipulator for one side or another . If current indications are foretelling of the future "remedies" true freedom is going to be slowly choked. Capital controls are just the beginning. The 250k tax ceiling for those who aspire for a brighter future is going to be another obstacle to overcome. "The power to tax is the power to destroy" This has not rang truer to me.

[LRPV]

Why would it be anti-Americanism to pursue the interests of EU citizens? I'd expect the EU to not wait until 2009 to push for the euro but do so constantly with vigour.

I was referring to countries like Iran and Venezuela that have raised the issue of the currency of exchange. Iran has been pushing the adoption of the Euro for some time.

[LRPV]

Seems the markets disagree. It's been devalued by about 30 per cent in the last month.

True, but its underlying stability is under-represented by the market.

[ren0312]

As I've stated before........if you are in a field that is "exportable", you need to climb the ladder faster than those beneath you(in terms of continuing education/skillset development) for your entire career to ensure continued employment.....or risk wage/employment attrition.

My mate's a self-employed plumber.......he makes more money than even some of the quite affluent folks I know and because of the average age of plumbers around here being about 117 years old he's got the kind of employment security most would kill for......when my kids are older I'm going to suggest they become nanotechnologists......or plumbers.

I think most people would view blue collar jobs as being beneath them, even if they pay a little better than your standard 9 to 5 office job, unless the salary differential is really large, the same goes for vocational schools vs. gettng a university degree, you actually would not need to import large amounts of immigrants for cheap labor from 3rd world countries(which would see their economies in even deeper trouble than they already have if not for the remittances that those OFWs send to their home countries, mine incuded) if you could find some way to persuade your own citizens to work on some of those blue collar jobs like in agriculture, construction, and yes plumbing, that goes for countries that actually have stable demographics even without much immigration like the US (TFR 2.1), Australia (TFR 1.9), and New Zealand (TFR 2.2).

[Siddar]

If you are a member of China's leadership and you are dealt the following hand:

Your main opponent possesses unmatched and almost god-like abilities to militarily annihilate it's enemies, but your main opponent has to borrow money from YOU to do it.

How would you proceed?

"Gimme my monies b!tch!"

You forgot the part where your economy is built open selling your ennemy cheap crap that can just as easly be made by other countrys and you only have the money to lend them because of the cheap crap they bought from you and if you stop lending the money to them they will stop buying your cheap crap thus making all the money your not lending them disappear.

[Flagg]

I think most people would view blue collar jobs as being beneath them, even if they pay a little better than your standard 9 to 5 office job, unless the salary differential is really large, the same goes for vocational schools vs. gettng a university degree, you actually would not need to import large amounts of immigrants for cheap labor from 3rd world countries(which would see their economies in even deeper trouble than they already have if not for the remittances that those OFWs send to their home countries, mine incuded) if you could find some way to persuade your own citizens to work on some of those blue collar jobs like in agriculture, construction, and yes plumbing, that goes for countries that actually have stable demographics even without much immigration like the US (TFR 2.1), Australia (TFR 1.9), and New Zealand (TFR 2.2).

It's a shame really....when you factor out any localized illegal immigrants/illegal workers self-employed tradespeople can do INCREDIBLY well for themselves.

And it only gets better when it's a trade with few young folks in the pipeline......everytime an older tradesperson retires...cha-ching!

Those smart enough to see the big picture and take advantage of it earn and deserve every penny.