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View Full Version : Red Cross ultimatum to US on Saddam



MetalBoy
06-13-2004, 10:53 PM
Oh ****, we better release him or else the Red Cross will arrest throw the USA into prison. p-)

Release him, charge him or break international law, Bush told

Jonathan Steele in Baghdad
Monday June 14, 2004
The Guardian

Saddam Hussein must either be released from custody by June 30 or charged if the US and the new Iraqi government are to conform to international law, the International Committee of the Red Cross said last night.
Nada Doumani, a spokeswoman for the ICRC, told the Guardian: "The United States defines Saddam Hussein as a prisoner of war. At the end of an occupation PoWs have to be released provided they have no penal charges against them."

Her comments came as the international body, the only independent group with access to detainees in US custody, becomes increasingly concerned over the legal limbo in which thousands of people are being held in the run-up to the transfer of power at the end of the month.

The occupation officially ends on June 30 and US forces will be in Iraq at the invitation of its sovereign government.

"There are all these people kept in a legal vacuum. No one should be left not knowing their legal status. Their judicial rights must be assured," Ms Doumani said.

Saddam and other senior officials of the old regime are the only Iraqi detainees to have been given PoW status. Hundreds of other Iraqis have been seized since the war often, according to critics, on flimsy suspicion and held for long periods without charge, usually without their families knowing for weeks where they are.

The ICRC visited the notorious Abu Ghraib prison in early June and found 3,291 detainees, including three women and 22 boys under 18. This was less than half the 6,527 it found in March.

President George Bush has promised to close the prison where US guards indulged in ****ographic abuse of prisoners and several groups of releases have taken place since. But many prisoners have been transferred to other prisons.

The ICRC is angry that it has not been given exact figures for releases or the whereabouts of those who are moved from Abu Ghraib and it is hoping the end of the occupation will put pressure on the authorities to clean up their act. "If we consider the occupation ends on June 30, that would mean it's the end of the international armed conflict. This is the legal situation.

"When the conflict ends the prisoners of war should be released according to the Geneva conventions," Ms Doumani said.

She accepted that US and other foreign forces would remain in Iraq.

Whether that meant an occupation continued would be "determined by the situation on the ground". The presence of foreign forces ought to be governed by a legal agreement with the host government.

The ICRC has made at least two visits to the former Iraqi president who is believed to be in a special prison at Baghdad airport.

Around 40 other members of the so-called "pack of cards", Washington's list of high-level members of the former regime, are also there, most in solitary confinement.

Interrogation has been sporadic and none has been charged or allowed visits by their lawyers. A few have had family visits.

They include scientists who were never members of the Ba'ath party, like Dr Amer al Saadi, who was the Iraqi government's liaison with the United Nations' weapons inspectors.

US lawyers have been helping Iraqis prepare charges against Saddam but officials say they do not expect a trial until next year at the earliest. The US and the Iraqi authorities hope other defendants will first testify against him.

But none has been willing to do so. Whether it is out of loyalty or fear of retribution by Saddam's sympathisers is not clear.

Once charged the former president will be entitled to judicial guarantees including access to a lawyer and the right to prepare a defence.

The US has made clear it will continue to detain some Iraqis after the transfer of sovereignty as part of its security operations

cut
06-13-2004, 10:56 PM
don't worry it's the Guardian, it's the left equivalent of the telegraph. By all means read them but don't take them seriously

budanski
06-13-2004, 11:01 PM
Release Saddam? Do these fools know what they're suggesting?!

I can't recall if the Red Cross/Red Crescent made any complaints when Saddam was killing thousands of his own people though.

I'd be interested in seeing what military the Red Cross comes up with to try and enforce this...

n4292936
06-13-2004, 11:11 PM
Well, the law is the law. America's obviously not goin to release him :D so if they want to act in concordance with international law they obviously have to charge him. On the other hand, its going to be hard for America, who does not recognise the international criminal court - the principal body used for trying those accussed of war crimes, to charge him with war crimes without looking hypocritical.... again :cantbeli:

Tane Angle
06-13-2004, 11:11 PM
budanski, I think they were leaning towards the official charges alternative. ;) Let us hope so. Can you explain the below quote to me though?


Saddam Hussein must either be released from custody by June 30 or charged if the US and the new Iraqi government are to conform to international law, the International Committee of the Red Cross said last night.

If the new Iraqi government doesn't officially take power until 30 June, how can that government charge anyone by the time of the handover, prior to their taking power? Maybe it's just confusing wording? p-)

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

n4292936
06-13-2004, 11:25 PM
Good point Tane, and besides, Saddam is in the custody of only one of those two entities. I dont see how both could be breaching any laws. I think it'll be really interesting to see what happens if they hand him over to the interim gov in Iraq to be tried... it'd be a bit of a hot potato issue for them. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the US Gov debates on what to do with him!

budanski
06-13-2004, 11:26 PM
If the new Iraqi government doesn't officially take power until 30 June, how can that government charge anyone by the time of the handover, prior to their taking power? Maybe it's just confusing wording? p-)

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

As far as I remember we are not holding him as a criminal but as a POW and there has not been a formal Peace accord signed. I'm sure once the transfer of power happens as schedule on June 30, we will return him to the proper authorities of Iraq.

I thought that a date had already been set for his trial by Iraqis some time later this summer.

Secret Squirrel
06-13-2004, 11:41 PM
Saddam, like many visual figures from various walks of life before him, is just being made the center piece to try and define some legal limits regarding the U.S's latest war (much like the legal discussions surrounding people held at Gitmo). It does bring some interesting legal plays to light though, because until the U.S charges him, he's not entitled to a lawyer. It also, again if this is true, brings up the question of where Saddam will be tried (ie. if the U.S charges him then can he still be tried in Iraq?). Also remember, again if this story is true, that the people making comments about either charge Saddam or release him are pencil pushers; meaning they do everything by the book so thats exactly what they're doing.

Fintin
06-13-2004, 11:44 PM
this rates right up there with his daughter having a bad time...boo fecking hoo...it doesnt take much brain power to figure out what he might be charged with

seruriermarshal
06-14-2004, 12:20 AM
So that's red cross .

Vance
06-14-2004, 12:21 AM
this rates right up there with his daughter having a bad time...boo fecking hoo...it doesnt take much brain power to figure out what he might be charged with
Drunk in public?

Fintin
06-14-2004, 12:25 AM
this rates right up there with his daughter having a bad time...boo fecking hoo...it doesnt take much brain power to figure out what he might be charged with
Drunk in public?

i was thinkng let the fashon police get their hands on him

n4292936
06-14-2004, 12:26 AM
he was punk in drublic

OB Kenobi
06-14-2004, 12:43 AM
this rates right up there with his daughter having a bad time...boo fecking hoo...it doesnt take much brain power to figure out what he might be charged with
Drunk in public?

i was thinkng let the fashon police get their hands on him

http://www.gothamist.com/images/saddam.jpg

n4292936
06-14-2004, 12:46 AM
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl Hilarious!