CIA Agent Graham Fuller: Turkey is becoming a major player

[Clearday-TRForce]

Author Graham Fuller Talks About His Book The New Turkish Republic
By Judith Latham
Washington
13 February 2008

Turkey plays a pivotal role between the West and the Middle East, says Graham Fuller, author of the recently published book, The New Turkish Republic: Turkey as a Pivotal State in the Muslim World. Mr. Fuller is a former vice chairman of CIA’s National Intelligence Council and previously served 15 years as an intelligence officer in various countries of the Middle East and Asia. In his latest book, he explores how – after a long period of isolation –

Turkey is becoming a major player in Middle Eastern politics.

http://www.voanews.com/english/NewsAnalysis/images/210_Book_The_New_Turkish_Re_1.jpg

Speaking with host Judith Latham of VOA News Now’s Press Conference USA, Graham Fuller says that people tend to forget that Turkey ran the most extensive Islamic empire in history, lasting for about 600 years. The Ottoman Empire, he notes, stretched from the Balkans to the borders of Iran and included much of the Arab world and North Africa. Mr. Fuller argues the new Turkish republic, now ruled by the “moderately Islamist” Justice and Development Party [known by its Turkish acronym AKP], is returning to a “normal state in the Middle East.” With the Kemalist reforms of modern Turkey’s first president Mustafa Kemal Ataturk following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I, Graham Fuller says, Turkey became a Western-oriented secular state and effectively “turned its back on its entire Islamic past as backward and primitive.”

Graham Fuller explains that “secularism” in Turkey was based on the French model, which meant a “weakening of the role of religion in the state and in society.” That contrasts, he says, with the American model in which the state simply “stays out of religious affairs.” In Turkey, for example, the state “banned certain types of religious practice.” The controversy over whether university women should be allowed to wear the “headscarf,” Mr. Fuller says, is “emblematic,” and it is bound up in the struggle over the proper role of Turkey’s political elite and the “intervention of the military in political affairs.”

Mr. Fuller calls Turkey the first Muslim country in the world to “freely and democratically elect a party with Islamist roots into full national power and to do so without violence.” He suggests that the Turkish public is moving away from the notion that Turkey should be a “loyal ally of the United States, or indeed of anybody.” Mr. Fuller observes that people now see “Turkish interests” and “American interests” as not necessarily the same. He says that “ironically” the ruling AKP is the most “positive towards the West” of any of Turkey’s political parties, some of which are quite anti-American. That’s partly because the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq has raised the political prominence of the Kurds there. According to Mr. Fuller, Turkey tends to view the world “through the lens of its own Kurdish problem.” Furthermore, he says, Turkey sees U.S. policy in the greater Middle East as “highly destabilizing” to the region, whereas Ankara is now seeking improved bilateral relations with all its neighbors.

Regarding Ankara’s foreign policy, Mr. Fuller says it no longer revolves around Washington. Turkey’s new government, in fact, is moving towards a “no enemies policy, where they have “good relations with every single neighbor.” Europe, he says, is the major focus of the Turkish economy, but whether – or when – Turkey will become a member of the European Union is not yet clear. Mr. Fuller stresses that an “independent” foreign policy is not incompatible with Turkey’s having good relations with the United States or with EU membership. Furthermore, he says, Turkey now has economic and energy interests in Russia, China, Central Asia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the Gulf.

Graham Fuller is the author of numerous books on the Muslim World and Islam, including The Future of Political Islam. He is an adjunct professor of history at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, British Columbia.


http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-02/2008-02-11-voa21.cfm



Best Regards,
CDTRF

[Calanen]

Speaking with host Judith Latham of VOA News Now’s Press Conference USA, Graham Fuller says that people tend to forget that Turkey ran the most extensive Islamic empire in history, lasting for about 600 years. The Ottoman Empire, he notes, stretched from the Balkans to the borders of Iran and included much of the Arab world and North Africa

Yeah just like Italy is equivalent to the Roman Empire of old...

No..wait..

[bucketman]

I see your "The New Turkish Republic" and raise you

"Legacy of Ashes" by Tim Weiner

[Clearday-TRForce]

I see your "The New Turkish Republic" and raise you

"Legacy of Ashes" by Tim Weiner

Turkey as regional hegemon—2014: strategic implications for the United States

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a714005731~db=all

[deli_dumrul]

Yeah just like Italy is equivalent to the Roman Empire of old...

No..wait..


Turkey never ceased to exist. Turkey only changed its political system (was a Monarchy, became a Republic). The name Turkey was first used in the 15th-16th century Latin scripts. The Ottoman Empire was actually called "Turkey" if you read the texts of 19th century treaties such as the Paris Peace Conference (1856) or the Congress of Berlin (1878). Just look at the 19th century caricatures on Punch magazine and you'll see that Turkey was always "Turkey".

Turkey didn't change its flag which was adopted in 1844. It is the Ottoman Navy flag.

Turkey paid for the Ottoman debts until the 1950s, being the only legal heir to the Ottoman Empire.

With your definition, the Turkish Air Force can't be founded in 1909-1911 (which is its official founding date). 1911 predates the establishment of the Turkish Republic. Similarly, the official founding date of the Turkish Navy is 1081, which also predates the Turkish Republic.

In short, "Turkey was always Turkey" - it only changed its political system. The flag and the institutions remain the same, but the ideology has changed.

[Raven_gr]

Graham Fuller says, Turkey became a Western-oriented secular state and effectively “turned its back on its entire Islamic past as backward and primitive.”


Has it now? Secularism is imposed by a very effective mix of nationalism unequal to any western nation and a democracy that operates under the stewardship of the military. Meanwhile one can still see Islamic tendencies and a moderate Islamic government.



Mr. Fuller calls Turkey the first Muslim country in the world to “freely and democratically elect a party with Islamist roots into full national power and to do so without violence.”

Yes, after some coups and the ever present threat of yet another one. Ergenekon affair. Look it up.


He suggests that the Turkish public is moving away from the notion that Turkey should be a “loyal ally of the United States, or indeed of anybody.” Mr. Fuller observes that people now see “Turkish interests” and “American interests” as not necessarily the same. He says that “ironically” the ruling AKP is the most “positive towards the West” of any of Turkey’s political parties, some of which are quite anti-American.

Exactly. The whole AKP in the government, E.U door face slam, ever present Kurdish problem and the Iraq war has raised nationalist tendencies with the kemalist elite seeing Turkey besieged by enemies and loosing allies fast. Isolationist tendencies are more powerful than ever and that with the explosive situation in the country can spell trouble. Though not a reality now, still a country that could very well be run by ultra nationalists in the foreseeable future could be as dangerous to the peace and stability of the region as any other with islamic jihadist tendencies.


Furthermore, he says, Turkey sees U.S. policy in the greater Middle East as “highly destabilizing” to the region, whereas Ankara is now seeking improved bilateral relations with all its neighbors

In some areas there has been improvement with very slow approachment , true, but still the dogfights in the Aegean are as high as ever and occupation of N.Cyprus is a reality. I haven't seen the threat of war against my country evaporate. So no it is not all milk and honey.

There is no word in the text about the Kurdish problem in Turkey or the political havoc and divisions in the country or the huge debt to the IMF or the low per capita income in the country.

[Lau]

Turkey still has a looong way to go.

Turkey still uses the army to control both journalists, and Islamic fanatics. The latter i can understand, after all, it's the reason why Turkey is where it is today.

But arresting Journalists for criticizing the Army? No No!

[4X4Driver]

I think most of you so far (including the OP of the article..unless of course he's a AKP supporter) misunderstood what Mr. Fuller is doing here...even some took him serious enough and use the opportunity to push their paranoiac neighbourly feelings. :)

Mr. Fuller is a fanatical AKP supporter for their stand against the secular system of Turkish Repuplic. He supports the Islamization efforts of the ruling Islamic party in power right now. He believes fundementals of secular Turkey stands in the way of setting the country as an example for the Islamic countries in the region and he supports the watering down of the secular Turkish system. When he was active on duty, he spend a lot of time working for the AKP agenda in Washington.

Simply, he's a mouthpiece of the Islamic gov't in Turkey...keep this in mind please.

[Karaahmetoglu]

Yes, after some coups and the ever present threat of yet another one. Ergenekon affair. Look it up.
Hmm Greece of course never ever had any internal strife oh no.

Civil War

Main article: Greek civil war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_civil_war)
German forces withdrew on October 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_12), 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944), and the government in exile returned to Athens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens). After the German withdrawal, ELAS guerilla army controlled most of the Greece, and its leaders were determined to take control of the country, although Stalin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin) had agreed that Greece would be in the British sphere of influence after the war and he gave the Greek Communists little encouragement. A demonstration by Communists in Athens on December 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_3), 1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944) ended in violence and was followed by an intense, house-to-house battle with British and monarchist forces. After three weeks, the Communists were defeated and an unstable coalition government was formed. Continuing tensions led to the outbreak of civil war in 1946 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946). First Britain and later the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) gave extensive military and economic aid to the Greek government (see Greek Civil War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War)).
Communist successes in 1947–48 enabled them to move free over much of mainland Greece, but with extensive reorganization and American material support, the Greek National Army was slowly able to regain control over most of the countryside. Yugoslavia closed its borders to the insurgent forces in 1949, after Marshal Tito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito) of Yugoslavia broke relations with the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union).
In August, 1949, the National Army under Marshal Alexander Papagos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Papagos) launched a final offensive that forced the remaining insurgents to surrender or flee across the northern border into the territory of Greece's communist neighbors. The civil war resulted in 100,000 killed and caused catastrophic economic disruption. In addition, at least 25,000 Greeks and an unspecified number of Macedonian Slavs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_%28ethnic_group%29) were either voluntarily or forcibly evacuated to Eastern bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_bloc) countries, while 700,000 became displaced persons inside the country. Many more emigrated to Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) and other countries.
The postwar settlement saw Greece's territorial expansion, which had begun in 1832, come to an end. The 1947 Treaty of Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Treaties,_1947) required Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) to hand over the Dodecanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecanese) islands to Greece. These were the last majority-Greek-speaking areas to be united with the Greek state, apart from Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus) which was a British possession until it became independent in 1960. Greece's ethnic homogeneity was increased by the postwar expulsion of 25,000 Albanians from Epirus (see Cham Albanians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameria_Issue)). The only significant remaining minorities are the Muslims in Western Thrace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_minority_%28Greece%29) (about 100,000) and a small Slavic-speaking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_language_%28Greece%29) minority in the north. Greek nationalists continued to claim southern Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania) (which they called Northern Epirus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Epirus)), home of a significant Greek population (about 3%-12% in the whole of Albania [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_modern_Greece#cite_note-0)), and the Turkish-held islands of Imvros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imvros) and Tenedos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenedos), where there were smaller Greek minorities.

Postwar Greece (1950–present)

After the civil war, Greece sought to join the Western democracies and became a member of NATO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO) in 1952. From 1952 to late 1963, Greece was governed by conservative parties: the Greek Rally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Rally) of Marshal Alexander Papagos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Papagos), and its successor, the National Radical Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Radical_Union) (ERE) of Constantine Karamanlis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Karamanlis). In 1964, the Center Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_Union) of George Papandreou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papandreou,_senior) was elected, and governed until July, 1965, when King Constantine II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_II_of_Greece) dismissed him, causing a constitutional crisis. The term July apostates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_apostates) refers to the group of George Papandreou's dissidents, led by the politician Konstantinos Mitsotakis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantinos_Mitsotakis), then also member of the Center Union, who crossed the floor to bring about the fall of his elected government in favour of the King. It was followed by a succession of unstable coalition governments formed by conservatives and rebel liberals.
On April 21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_21), 1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967), just before scheduled elections, a group of right-wing colonels led by Colonel George Papadopoulos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papadopoulos) seized power in a coup d'état (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) establishing the Regime of the Colonels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967-1974). Civil liberties were suppressed, special military courts were established, and political parties were dissolved. Several thousand suspected communists and political opponents were imprisoned or exiled to remote Greek islands. Alleged US support for the junta is claimed to be the cause of rising anti-Americanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Americanism) in Greece during and following the junta's harsh rule. However, the US earned the animosity of Greek Communists long before. In Greece's Civil War the US backed the Greek government at a crucial time when the British could no longer support Greece due to its post war economic crisis.
On November 25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_25), 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973), following the bloody suppression of Athens Polytechnic uprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens_Polytechnic_uprising) on the 17th of November, Captain Dimitrios Ioannides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrios_Ioannides) replaced Papadopoulos and tried to continue the dictatorship despite the popular unrest the uprising had triggered. Ioannides' attempt in July, 1974 to overthrow Archbishop Makarios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarios), the President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Cyprus) of Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus), brought Greece to the brink of war with Turkey, which invaded Cyprus and occupied part of the island. Senior Greek military officers then withdrew their support from the junta, which toppled. Karamanlis returned from exile in France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) to establish a government of national unity until elections could be held. Karamanlis worked to defuse the risk of war with Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey) and also legalised the communist party which had been illegal since 1947.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_modern_Greece#cite_note-1) His newly organized party, New Democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democracy_%28Greece%29) (ND), won elections held in November, 1974, and he became prime minister.
Following the 1974 referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum) which resulted in the abolition of the monarchy, a new constitution was approved by parliament on June 19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_19), 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975). Parliament elected Constantine Tsatsos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Tsatsos) as President of the republic. In the parliamentary elections of 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977), New Democracy again won a majority of seats. In May, 1980, Prime Minister Karamanlis was elected to succeed Tsatsos as President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_Greece). George Rallis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Rallis) succeeded Karamanlis as Prime Minister.
On January 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1), 1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981), Greece became the 10th member of the European Community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Community) (now the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union)).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_modern_Greece#cite_note-2) In parliamentary elections held on October 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_18), 1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981), Greece elected its first socialist government when the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhellenic_Socialist_Movement) (PASOK), led by Andreas Papandreou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Papandreou), won 172 of 300 seats. On March 29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_29), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985), after Prime Minister Papandreou declined to support President Karamanlis for a second term, Supreme Court Justice Christos Sartzetakis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christos_Sartzetakis) was elected president by the Greek parliament.
http://www.abdullah-ocalan.org/2008/pkk-greece-questions-answers/


As a reprisal terrorist supporters have attacked Greek, Kenyan & UN diplomatic missions and taken hostages around the world. By this aggression against diplomatic compounds and personnel PKK has broken another international treaty against terrorism. In Turkey they have moved their arson/bombing operations to city targets, aiming civilians without care for ethnic origin.
Q: Why is Greece important for the PKK?
A: Greece is used by the PKK as a launch pad to infiltrate Europe.
Q: How was the Greek-PKK connection established?
A: It started when Greece established the Lavrion refugee camp and started sheltering pro-PKK Kurds there.
Q: Is there any other NATO country that allows use of its territory for activities against another NATO country?
A: No. France was providing shelter to Basque guerillas, but that has ceased.
Q: Are there any PKK camps in Greece?
A: Yes. It’s been known for some time that the PKK has at least three mobile training camps in Greece. Greece has been denying the existence of camps where terrorists have been receiving both textbook and tactical training; however, confessions by captured terrorists underline that Greek camps were used by the terrorist gang, in particular to train urban death squads.
Q: What other organizations does the PKK have in Greek territory?
A: In contrast to other European countries, Greece does not consider the PKK a terrorist organization. Front organizations of the separatist gang have been given permission by Greek authorities to establish themselves and function in all major cities of Greece. Greek security even tolerated efforts by these terrorist gang organizations to collect donations (!) and organize “cultural nights” in order to raise funds for the separatist gang.
On April 30, 1998 Greece allowed the establishment of the “PKK Representation of the Balkans.” This was the first time that the PKK had opened an official representation in any country under its own name.
Q: Was Greek support to the PKK limited to these?
A: No. After Ocalan left Syria, he was in Russia for a brief period. When Russia, under Turkish and American pressure, placed him on board an Aeroflot flight and sent him to Rome, Greece was one of the first countries to voice sympathy for the “Kurdish cause,” while still refusing to condemn the PKK, and campaigned for the convening of an international conference to discuss the so-called “Kurdish question.”
Q: When did Greece start supporting the PKK?
A: Greek support for the PKK dates back to late 1980s. It had previously supported yet another anti-Turkish gang, the notorious terrorist group, the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA). Interestingly enough, Syria as well was supporting ASALA.
Q: Was sheltering Ocalan the sole Greek support for the PKK?
A: No. Greece has been providing facilities to the PKK on its soil in the form of shelter as well as training and logistics for its activities aimed at destabilizing and dividing Turkey. It has been known for some time that
retired Greek officers have been training PKK members both in Greece and abroad. Although Greece has categorically been denying this fact, it was noted that in the latest Ocalan episode one of the key players of the fiasco was a former Greek naval commander, retired Adm. Andonis Naxakis.
In addition to the support of the Greek military, parliamentarians – mainly from the Pan-Hellenic Socialist Party (PASOK) of Prime Minister Costas Simitis — have been maintaining close links with the group. Several Greek parliamentarians have visited Ocalan, either in Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley or in Damascus, Syria. These visits became public when pro-Kurdish newspapers and magazines published photographs and stories of these contacts.
When Turkey forced Syria to get Ocalan out of its territory four months ago, Greek parliamentarians publicly invited the separatist leader to take “refuge” in Greece.
In addition to Ocalan, many Kurdish outlaws whom Turkey placed on Interpol’s Red List have been freely organizing gatherings in Greece and have been meeting with Greek government officials.
Q: Who orchestrated the latest diplomatic fiasco?
A: Statements by Theodoros Pangalos, the foreign minister who was forced by Prime Minister Simitis to resign, indicate that the Greek Foreign Ministry and Intelligence Agency were the masters behind the fiasco.
Q: What are they accused of?
A: Allowing Ocalan to unobtrusively enter Greece many times. Hosting him at the Greek ambassadorial residence in Nairobi, Kenya. Failing to provide Ocalan a secure place.

Q: Wasn’t Simitis involved?
A: According to Pangalos, he acted on instructions from Simitis.
Q: Why were Pangalos and two other ministers forced by Prime Minister Simitis to resign?
A: In the hopes of surviving the aftershocks of the fiasco.


Oh and how could we ever forget who was kept in that Greek Embassy in Kenya before the Turkish Special Forces forces captured him?
http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/inside/turkey/Ocalan.jpg



There is no word in the text about the Kurdish problem in Turkey or the political havoc and divisions in the country or the huge debt to the IMF or the low per capita income in the country.Kurdish problem which your government supports, so you can write comments like these here. The low per capita income stems from people not reporting to the Government there earnings so that they do not have to pay so much taxes. Income taxes in Turkey are way to high. And majority of Kurds in the South East are very poor because apparently they have no income, but shocks me when they come to the Black Sea for vacations on 2007 Mercedes-Benz S-classes, and a few ML class Mercedes to carry there endless lines of Children.

[4X4Driver]

And majority of Kurds in the South East are very poor because apparently they have no income, but shocks me when they come to the Black Sea for vacations on 2007 Mercedes-Benz S-classes, and a few ML class Mercedes to carry there endless lines of Children.

You know...there is a widely know phrase in SE Turkey ppl knows about; "1 kilo toz, 1 otobos"

Translation; 1 Kilo of dust (heroin) equals to 1 Bus (Buses still widely used in TR for the public/intercity transportation)

[saladin]

Turkey still has a looong way to go.

Turkey still uses the army to control both journalists, and Islamic fanatics. The latter i can understand, after all, it's the reason why Turkey is where it is today.

But arresting Journalists for criticizing the Army? No No!

Well, the liars (Taraf newspaper) spread false news about Turkish army and later proven as flat lies. They critize Turkish army everyday using the funds from EU and Soros. What happens? Are they in jail No, No. So please write after you are informed.

Here is the the comment I wrote to NPR about a similar topic.



NPR should verify its sources before publishing an article. I'm not going to even mention the conspiracy theories behind Taraf, however it is suffice to say that the articles they published about Turkish army almost always proven to be false if not flat lies. For example, look at the video above. They claimed the video was from the neighborhood of Aktutun, a recently attacked base just minutes before the attack. Their aim was to show Turkish army was not capable to do anything. However the coordinates on the video clearly showed that they were 30 miles away. If I'm as a regular user can prove that the claim was wrong with google maps in 2 minutes, one wonder why they did not do the same. Only after their lies caught by other newspapers they accepted their mistake. But looks like, founding no opposition here, Congar still speaks the same tone of the original article. Same goes with their other videos, showing innocent villagers farming and yet claiming they were terrorists preparing to attack. Turkish army, just like any other organization may need improvements, but they are neither impotent nor a powerful tool of deep state as Taraf tries to present them. What is more, military's inability to stop Taraf publishing plain lies is a good example that Turkish military is not so dictatorial as some claims (including this article).
While I hope to see in the future that NPR will verify its articles with more people, my experience from listening your shows about Turkey leaves little room to be optimistic.

[Thrasymachus]

http://www.info-turk.be/360.htm#Breakdown
...
Between the dates of 4th August 2006 and 25th May 2008, 14 newspaper has been stopped 33 times. The peak times were March 2007, October 2007 and November 2007. In March 2007 4 newspapers was closed, 3 newspapers in October 2007, 4 newspapers in November 2007. In addition the Alternatif newspaper which started its publication in 19th May 2005 has stopped for 1 month on 25th May 2005 and the Gelecek newspaper which started publication 28 May has stopped for 1 month in 30th June. This situation shows clearly the current state of censorship and anti-democratic practices level.
...




http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=20827&Valider=OK
...
At least 65 people, including many journalists and writers, have been prosecuted under article 301 of the new criminal code introduced on 1 June 2005. ...




Well, the liars (Taraf newspaper) spread false news about Turkish army and later proven as flat lies. They critize Turkish army everyday using the funds from EU and Soros. What happens? Are they in jail No, No.


I am sure it is only a matter of time before a newspaper like Taraf in a country like Turkey is facing repression. Then you can rejoice in private and pretend externally to be against the repression(just like the Turkish government will do). Maybe they can prosecuted on the basis of the conspiracy theory that they are funded by Soros and EU, it would sound like Turkish justice to me.

[4X4Driver]

I am sure it is only a matter of time before a newspaper like Taraf in a country like Turkey is facing repression. Then you can rejoice in private and pretend externally to be against the repression(just like the Turkish government will do). Maybe they can prosecuted on the basis of the conspiracy theory that they are funded by Soros and EU, it would sound like Turkish justice to me.

Nope...everyone knows they're funded by soros, but nothing happens to them. Why?, It is a stragety of the state that they should be allowed to say in order to expose themselves to the majority of the public...this is a whole new understanding/concept.. at least of the military. Everything they claimed proven to be false so far..this is a big plus on the side of the instutions this newspaper is attacking with soros funding behind.

Also...seems like you definetely have some issues with the Turks in general..you need to make up your mind about where to stand.

Referring to another post of yours:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3648554&postcount=33

Edit: A ha..I didn't hit the link you've provided before. I see you brought the PKK's propaganda site here. FYI, the so called newspapers they're referring to are PKK printed propaganda material..not a newspaper ;)

Where are you from?
Edit: Never mind..it's quite obvious where you from :)

why do you carry the terrorist propaganda sites like the one below here?
Edit; Never mind that too..now I know why.

http://www.info-turk.be/360.htm#Breakdown (http://www.info-turk.be/360.htm#Breakdown)

[deli_dumrul]

I am sure it is only a matter of time before a newspaper like Taraf in a country like Turkey is facing repression. Then you can rejoice in private and pretend externally to be against the repression(just like the Turkish government will do). Maybe they can prosecuted on the basis of the conspiracy theory that they are funded by Soros and EU, it would sound like Turkish justice to me.

I can't wait when we start repressing their a$$es. Do we have some sort of criteria to match or sth? rofl

Privately?

We will rejoice publicly, right in this forum, when anybody who supports international terrorism (directly or indirectly or privately) gets the muzzle shoved in his mouth. Turk or Greek...

[saladin]

I am sure it is only a matter of time before a newspaper like Taraf in a country like Turkey is facing repression. Then you can rejoice in private and pretend externally to be against the repression(just like the Turkish government will do). Maybe they can prosecuted on the basis of the conspiracy theory that they are funded by Soros and EU, it would sound like Turkish justice to me.

Lets talk when they do. Otherwise I can also speculate that I'm responding to a troll who is using yet another login. Of course, as this is only a speculation it doesn't have any merit until it turns out true, just like your claim that Taraf is going to be repressed. By the way, how convenient is it to skip the Taraf lies, and play the (non-existing) repression card.


Where are you from?
Edit: Never mind..it's quite obvious where you from

so true, so true....

[Raven_gr]

Hmm Greece of course never ever had any internal strife oh no.

Sure in the 1940's and from 1967 to 1975. I don't understand why you try to turn this thing around to Greece yet again. Besides I am referring to Turkey's instability past and PRESENT.



http://www.abdullah-ocalan.org/2008/pkk-greece-questions-answers/
Oh and how could we ever forget who was kept in that Greek Embassy in Kenya before the Turkish Special Forces forces captured him?
http://www.silkroadstudies.org/new/inside/turkey/Ocalan.jpg
Kurdish problem which your government supports, so you can write comments like these here. The low per capita income stems from people not reporting to the Government there earnings so that they do not have to pay so much taxes. Income taxes in Turkey are way to high. And majority of Kurds in the South East are very poor because apparently they have no income, but shocks me when they come to the Black Sea for vacations on 2007 Mercedes-Benz S-classes, and a few ML class Mercedes to carry there endless lines of Children.

You accuse others of posting stuff from biased sources and then you follow the same practice. Now in what way does the Greek government support the riots that occur almost daily in southeast Turkey, or other parts of the country. Are the Greeks also behind the outrage of thousands of people that take to the streets?Are all of those Kurds PKK supporters? Are the millions of Turks of Kurdish origin that elect Kurdish mayors, local and parliament officials PKK supporters? I spoke about an existing Kurdish problem. Put sprinkles and spice on it, bury it I don't know, the fact is that it is there and that is what matters.

About the low per capita income. You guys must be miracle workers when it comes to tax evasion to achieve that low official performance. Also why you bring up the Kurds again I don't know. I guess it is again all their fault that you score so low and that they are impoverished and according to our sayings thief's and con men.

[4X4Driver]

You accuse others of posting stuff from biased sources and then you follow the same practice. Now in what way does the Greek government support the riots that occur almost daily in southeast Turkey, or other parts of the country. Are the Greeks also behind the outrage of thousands of people that take to the streets?Are all of those Kurds PKK supporters? Are the millions of Turks of Kurdish origin that elect Kurdish mayors, local and parliament officials PKK supporters? I spoke about an existing Kurdish problem. Put sprinkles and spice on it, bury it I don't know, the fact is that it is there and that is what matters.

About the low per capita income. You guys must be miracle workers when it comes to tax evasion to achieve that low official performance. Also why you bring up the Kurds again I don't know. I guess it is again all their fault that you score so low and that they are impoverished and according to our sayings thief's and con men.


Actually, all those you see on the streets are pro pkk. They're chanting pro pkk slogans and not deniying being pro pkk..neither should you ;) Mayors and other kurd officials, who are from DTP (in total got 1.1 mil votes out of 10 mil of kurds in Turkey) openly demanding pkk leader to be set free.

Mate, untill the day you allow ethic Mecedonians represented in your parliament with their ethnic identy (like the kurds do in Turkey) and allow them to express their loyalty to the Republic of Macedonia,(like the kurds do in Turkey by expressing their loyalty to N. Iraq) you have nothing what's so ever to say about our situation... ;)

[Raven_gr]

Actually, all those you see on the streets are pro pkk. They're chanting pro pkk slogans and not deniying being pro pkk..neither should you ;) Majors, who are from DTP (in total got 1.1 mil votes out of 10 mil of kurds in Turkey) openly demanding pkk leader to be set free.

Mate, untill the day you allow ethic Mecedonians represented in your parliament with their ethnic identy (like the kurds do in Turkey) and allow them to express their loyalty to the Republic of Macedonia,(like the kurds do in Turkey by expressing their loyalty to N. Iraq) you have nothing what's so ever to say about our situation... ;)

I am not pro-PKK, I am pro democracy and pro human rights.

So, just asking, you say the DTP is PKK in disguise and those 1,1 million are PKK supporters?

Nice flame and derailment attempt on Macedonia. People don't bite, it is yet another attempt to derail the topic.

[deli_dumrul]

So, just asking, you say the DTP is PKK in disguise and those 1,1 million are PKK supporters?


Apo (the guy you see in the picture) ordered - in his own words - "kill everybody who does not vote for his party along with their chickens". During the last elections they threatened rival party members with death... Who would you vote for if a terrorist had a gun pointed at your thread?

May I ask how the heck do you consider yourself pro-democracy without even knowing about death threats?

[4X4Driver]

I am not pro-PKK, I am pro democracy and pro human rights.

So, just asking, you say the DTP is PKK in disguise and those 1,1 million are PKK supporters?

No disguise...they're openly saying they are pro pkk and they protest for the freedom of the terror org. leader öcalan.

That's democracy for you.

Democratic Society party,or DTP, incited several protests, some of which turned into support rallies for the terrorist Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, as the Prime Minister resumed his tour of southeast Anatolia over the weekend.


Meanwhile, a two-day sit-in demonstration in Diyarbakır, staged across from the seventh army corps headquarters by the DTP, turned into a full fledged pro-PKK rally yesterday, as DTP local administrators, deputies and mayors sang pro-PKK songs together with participants. “PKK is the people, people are here,” read some of the banners.



http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=119174


Nice flame and derailment attempt on Macedonia. People don't bite, it is yet another attempt to derail the topic.

No flame...just showing that you're not in any position to criticise us at all (even though you guys are "civilized" EU member and we're "barbaric savages") ;)...you can try, but not many will buy it any more.


If I may copy/paste your own words...


I spoke about an existing Mecedonian problem. Put sprinkles and spice on it, bury it I don't know, the fact is that it is there and that is what matters.

[Raven_gr]

Apo (the guy you see in the picture) ordered - in his own words - "kill everybody who does not vote for his party along with their chickens". During the last elections they threatened rival party members with death... Who would you vote for if a terrorist had a gun pointed at your thread?

May I ask how the heck do you consider yourself pro-democracy without even knowing about death threats?

You are implying the DTP is more or less connected to the PKK.
That aside, according to your sayings, two things happen if that is true.

The PKK is much more successful in intimidating people who otherwise experience no discrimination and oppression such as having their language outlawed and the like, as it was done a couple of years ago. Also, by your logic, the military and your government have failed to protect all those poor people who live under the constant menace of those terrorists. We are talking about 1,1 million people here!!!




No disguise...they're openly saying they are pro pkk and they protest for the freedom of the terror org. leader öcalan.

That's democracy for you.

Democratic Society party,or DTP, incited several protests, some of which turned into support rallies for the terrorist Kurdistan Workers’ Party, or PKK, as the Prime Minister resumed his tour of southeast Anatolia over the weekend.


Meanwhile, a two-day sit-in demonstration in Diyarbakır, staged across from the seventh army corps headquarters by the DTP, turned into a full fledged pro-PKK rally yesterday, as DTP local administrators, deputies and mayors sang pro-PKK songs together with participants. “PKK is the people, people are here,” read some of the banners.



http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=119174



You have me confused. Demi says they are not pro-PKK and are being intimidated to support PKK agenda and you say that they are PKK by their own volition . Make up your mind...

So, by your accounts, you have at least 1,1 million people that are pro PKK. I would say that qualifies as a major factor for internal instability. Don't you think?



No flame...just showing that you're not in any position to criticise us at all (even though you guys are "civilized" EU member and we're "barbaric savages") ;)...you can try, but not many will buy it any more.


If I may copy/paste your own words...

I'll bite once.

Oh really? And when was the last time you saw these people march the streets of Thessaloniki chanting separatist slogans and demanding their, according to you, refused rights. Take a glimpse on what it says next to "location" on my Avatar. Check the Greek constitution. There are clauses protecting freedom of expression and human rights and , in contrast to yours, has never been criticized about being oppressive towards anyone . Last time the Slavs that, according to you constitute a minority, participated in the election they got some 0,0002% of the vote. Nobody has prohibited before or since the participation in the elections of that party.

Check what you have done with the Kurds all these years and then start pointing fingers.

[4X4Driver]

You are implying the DTP is more or less connected to the PKK.

I'm not implying that...they're saying it outloud. You should give up insisting that they're not on their behalf.

That aside, according to your sayings, two things happen if that is true.


The PKK is much more successful in intimidating people who otherwise experience no discrimination and oppression such as having their language outlawed and the like, as it was done a couple of years ago.

that's if one believes that their problem is the basic rights and not seperating Turkey into two ;) Like you also said, there are no restirictions for more than two years only..they're being represented in the parliament, but all they've been wanting is "freedom to pkk leader" nothing else. If there was any other issues, they should bring that up...not the freedom of a terrorist.



Also, by your logic, the military and your government have failed to protect all those poor people who live under the constant menace of those terrorists. We are talking about 1,1 million people here!!!

At least, you're correct there. This gov't has been very soft on the pkk under the strict orders of the EU and this is what they created.



You have me confused. Demi says they are not pro-PKK and are being intimidated to support PKK agenda and you say that they are PKK by their own volition . Make up your mind...

Didin't quite get what you're saying here, but they're openly declaring that they support pkk and I've posted links for you to acknowledge that...no use to still deniy it on their behalf.


So, by your accounts, you have at least 1,1 million people that are pro PKK. I would say that qualifies as a major factor for internal instability. Don't you think?

Well'' it's still a drop in a 10 mil (for some 15 mil) and this has been like this for some time now and they still could not provoke the Turkish side enough to create major instability.



I'll bite once.

Oh really? And when was the last time you saw these people march the streets of Thessaloniki chanting separatist slogans and demanding their, according to you, refused rights. Take a glimpse on what it says next to "location" on my Avatar. Check the Greek constitution. There are clauses protecting freedom of expression and human rights and , in contrast to yours, has never been criticized about being oppressive towards anyone . Last time the Slavs that, according to you constitute a minority, participated in the election they got some 0,0002% of the vote. Nobody has prohibited before or since the participation in the elections of that party.

Forget making peaceful demostrations ( although it's known they've tried several times, but didn't end up good for them) It's kind of difficult for ethnic Macedonians do anything like the kurds do in Turkey, under the given situation in your country...isn't it?


The Macedonians of Greece (http://hrw.org/research/aboutpub.htm#outofprint)
Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up a large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally-recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been prosecuted and convicted for the peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government — followed and threatened by security forces — and subjected to economic and social pressures resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ethnic Macedonian political refugees who fled northern Greece after the Greek Civil War of 1946-49, as well as their descendants who identify themselves as Macedonians, are denied permission to regain their citizenship, to resettle in, or even to visit northern Greece. By contrast, all of these are possible for political refugees who define themselves as Greeks. Greek courts have denied permission to establish a "Center for Macedonian Culture." Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity. (From our “Denying Ethnic Identity” series)
HRW Index No.: ISBN 1-56432-132-0
May 1, 1994 Report

Denying Ethnic Identity (http://www.hrw.org/reports/pdfs/g/greece/greece945.pdf)
The Macedonians of Greece
The Greek government views the term "Macedonian" as a geographic term that describes all Greek citizens living in the Macedonian region in northern Greece. The government denies the assertions of the ethnic Macedonians in Greece that they are are a minority group; officials refer to them as "Slavophone Greeks" or "bilinguals." In July 1993, a fact-finding mission made up of representatives of three organizations, the Danish Helsinki Committee, Minority Rights Group-Greece, and Human Rights Watch/Helsinki, went to northern Greece to look into the situation of the Macedonian minority there. The climate of fear was striking; a large number of people asked the mission not to use their names, for fear of losing their civil service jobs or being harassed by police. The mission also journeyed to Bitola in the southern region of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to interview ethnic Macedonian political refugees from Greece who have been denied the right to regain their citizenship or property (taken from them after the Greek Civil War) or to visit relatives and friends in northern Greece.

http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=europe&c=greece&document_limit=20,20

P.S. The answer to the "location in your avatar" is in the pre-1903 history of the region..I strongly urge ppl to read on that for more detailed answer.