do not aim like that

[iflu]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur

http://russianarms.info/roma/092.jpg

[Ichhabe]

Guess your only option is to look him up and give him a thourough lesson in how one is suppose to aim I'll guess.

Btw, I aim like that when on the range, can shoot off the balls on a fly at 200 meters. But I could have done it so much better...*sigh*

And while we're at it: there are different teqhnuices for different aiming and bla bla bla. But I'll guess there is only one true way to do it.

[Javehn]

Don't see many problems with that ... Perhaps some techniques required both eyes open in fighting , but in shooting ranges and zeroing weapons , i personally better liked it with one eye . Don't see many problems there .

[thatguy96]

coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur
The only point about keeping both eyes open, is that it keeps your periferal eye open, as well as, your direction eye. This is supposed to give you better awareness. However, for longer range shooting, target shooting, zeroing, and even tense combat situations, whatever gives you the most confidence in your sight picture is the way you aim. I've seen people aiming both ways in too many pictures to think that its all that bad.

[Burncycle]

You aim whichever is most comfortable. Some people can't handle aiming with both eyes open.

I'm right eye dominant, and with both eyes open I can see a good sight picture, but if I try to aim with both eyes open through my left eye, I can't see the sight picture well since I'm right eye dominant. I could probably practice and be able to, but its easier to just close my right eye if I'm shooting with my left :P

[obd]

Question: why is the return spring exposes like that? I imagine maybe to drain river water out faster hehehe.....but it seems to me that might make problems with dirt and mud and ****......I know Im going way way way out on a limb questioning Russian small arms design (hehe) but it just seems odd

[MEGR]

Go over to that operator, and tell him that he is doing it wrong.

[American Patriot]

The recoil spring is covered up when the safety is on.

[thatguy96]

Question: why is the return spring exposes like that? I imagine maybe to drain river water out faster hehehe.....but it seems to me that might make problems with dirt and mud and ****......I know Im going way way way out on a limb questioning Russian small arms design (hehe) but it just seems odd
Seeing as that's how it is on most Kalashnikov action based weapons, I don't think its too much of an issue. Or we somehow haven't heard that being a major problem with any of the millions of weapons with this exposure ;)

What is it anyhow? Tula AS Val?

[5jumpchump]

obd wrote:
Question: why is the return spring exposes like that? I imagine maybe to drain river water out faster hehehe.....but it seems to me that might make problems with dirt and mud and ****......I know Im going way way way out on a limb questioning Russian small arms design (hehe) but it just seems odd

Perhaps you didnt see the video of some good ol red necks taking an AK47 out of the water , opening the reciver and stuffing it with moss , twigs and dirt . Then closing the top cover on it and bump firing it with no jams . It's some where on these boards - anyone know where a link is ?

Anyhow the US Army teaches you to fire like this . Aimed fire always wins a fire fight . Spray and pray does not . ALthough fireing with both eyes open is prefered when the combat distance is close say 20 - 35 meters it isn't the end all be all way to fire . Like all have said you wouldn't use this type of firing method to zero your rifle or shoot to hit tagets far away . So what was the point of this thread again :roll:

[Steve Andrews]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur



What the **** are you talking about? :|

[pipaz]

What the f*** are you talking about?

read da post and watch your language.... :bash:

[American Patriot]

Anyhow the US Army teaches you to fire like this . Aimed fire always wins a fire fight . Spray and pray does not . ALthough fireing with both eyes open is prefered when the combat distance is close say 20 - 35 meters it isn't the end all be all way to fire . Like all have said you wouldn't use this type of firing method to zero your rifle or shoot to hit tagets far away . So what was the point of this thread again :roll:

What the **** are you talking about? :|

[Undo]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur

http://russianarms.info/roma/092.jpg

Wow. You use leet speak and everything, so you must be a pro.

What is the point of this thread? Your credibility is now damaged, and no one with a brain or any experience thinks any differently about the quality of the operator in the photo. Useless.

[MVSpartan117]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur


d00d! U r t3h ub3r 1337!!!!! u $hOu1d j01n t3h m1l1t@arY aNd $h0w t3h l@zY b@$t@rd$ h0w 1t$ d0n3 r1ghT!!!1!!11!!!

[pipaz]

hmmmm I dont remember my senior drill teling me to shot with my boath eyes open in BT.

corect me if im wrong

[5jumpchump]

Anyhow the US Army teaches you to fire like this . Aimed fire always wins a fire fight . Spray and pray does not . ALthough fireing with both eyes open is prefered when the combat distance is close say 20 - 35 meters it isn't the end all be all way to fire . Like all have said you wouldn't use this type of firing method to zero your rifle or shoot to hit tagets far away . So what was the point of this thread again :roll:

What the f*** are you talking about? :|

What was wrong with what i said ? Are you trying to say that what my drill instructor told me was wrong ? Are you saying that aimed fire is less accurate then point firing ? Perhaps i should fire from the hip complete with Hollywood pose ? Should i grow a mullet , die it black and find a red bandana ? I'll need a M-60 huh rofl **** if forgot the knife :roll:

[American Patriot]

Keeping one eye closed has nothing to do with accuracy

[Undo]

Keeping one eye closed has nothing to do with accuracy

You are both in Arizona! Fight!!

Seriously, American Patriot, what are you talking about? One eye closed is perfectly acceptable in every class I have had. Maybe not preferred, but it doesn't make you an amateur.

[5jumpchump]

What about having both eyes closed ?

[Steve Andrews]

Both eyes closed does it for me.

But seriously, when target shooting I keep one eye closed to aquire the target (and make sure I'm shooting on the right lane!) then open them both. I find that this puts less strain on the shooting eye.
Many shooting sportsmen wear a patch on their non-aiming eye.

Both eyes open is also use for close range, instinctive shooting.

[Pooga]

Yeah, my instructor told me to shoot with both eyes closed and my right arm around the left side of my neck. That way if you hit something while getting shot at it looks really cool and you can go "RAR!" like a tiger and throw your gun down and start beating up the other people that are shooting at you.

Actually I never had an instructor, most likely because I was never in the military, so catch that and paint it green.

[RomanS]

5jumpchump vs American Patriot in a shooting competition?

OH GOD ....

NO.....

AMerican Patriot, at least bring a **** load of hot women with you,
to smooth out all the embarrassing/ass whoppin/pwnage/cockholstering you going to recieve.

Now I've seen 5jump shoot before.

Oh GOD

No....

[5jumpchump]

Both eyes closed does it for me.

But seriously, when target shooting I keep one eye closed to aquire the target (and make sure I'm shooting on the right lane!) then open them both. I find that this puts less strain on the shooting eye.
Many shooting sportsmen wear a patch on their non-aiming eye.

Both eyes open is also use for close range, instinctive shooting.

Lol that's funny , i do the exact opposite ! I keep both eyes open with the front post down and out of view . I get the general direction , point at the target and when i at least have the barrel lined up i pull the front sight post into view . When I'm close i close and eye and concentrate on perfecting my aim to the center of the target and then concentrate on breathing and stillness . Some ugly bastard with a funny hat with a big set of lungs told me this is a good way of setting up a kill :lol:

[RomanS]

Keeping one eye closed has nothing to do with accuracy

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS

come on dude, Usery Shooting range (Rio Salado)

You are in Tempe.

Bring your best rifle, and we will do a friendly competition. You can open your eyes, close them, blink them, twitch them, slant them whatever.

5jump will do it his way.

300 yard diamond target (size of a stop sign)

10 shots

any caliber accept .50


WE NEED A LITTLE FUN IN THIS STATE, I'm geting bored.

[rob]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur

http://russianarms.info/roma/092.jpg

your worried about him having one eye closed, hell what caught my attention more was the lack of a rear sight from what i can see. :cantbeli:

[RomanS]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur

http://russianarms.info/roma/092.jpg

your worried about him having one eye closed, hell what caught my attention more was the lack of a rear sight from what i can see. :cantbeli:

this is getting silly now.

Please research about the weapon this operator is holding, and than make comments.
If you don't know anything about it, sometimes its much more appropriate to hushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.


http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

[Seraphim]

Yeah I dont even see a barrel, that is messed up. p-)

[cut]

I've never fired anything other then air rifles but I know I have a dominant left eye and I'm right handed, does that mean I would have to aim with my left eye closed like this?

[rob]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur

http://russianarms.info/roma/092.jpg

your worried about him having one eye closed, hell what caught my attention more was the lack of a rear sight from what i can see. :cantbeli:

this is getting silly now.

Please research about the weapon this operator is holding, and than make comments.
If you don't know anything about it, sometimes its much more appropriate to hushhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.


http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

my apologies, but it was not evident in the picture and i would assume it would be in the same place as a ak47 because of the weapons lineage with the kalashnikov.

[Seraphim]

I've never fired anything other then air rifles but I know I have a dominant left eye and I'm right handed, does that mean I would have to aim with my left eye closed like this?

Yeah Im in the same boat as you. :|
Although there was that one movie where you put a stocking over your head and drive around in a willies jeep with a tube for your right eye to see through. :lol:

I dont know...go ask a optometrist...maybe you can wear a patch over your left eye for awhile and your right eye will become dominant.

[DE_Six]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://www.gunsworld.com/gun_ar/graphs/as1.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

[RomanS]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

100-400 meters best range for VSS/VAL

beyond the bullet slows down too dramatic.

[DE_Six]

I see.

Thanks.

[Flagg]

sorry about this. there is no info. just wondering if your trainer ever told u do not aim like that. in fact, i saw a marine photo aiming like that. coz u should not not close ur eye when u r aiming. so i m supprised that a special operator aims in this way. its too amateur

riiiiiiiiiiight......

Earlier this year at an Army range I was shooting quite well but a shooting coach suggested I follow through more on my trigger pull.....I did, and my groups expanded by a factor of 2x-3x......the shooting coach obviously noticed as well.....at start of qualification shooting the shooting coach whispered to me...."Forget what I said....just do what you were doing before." I did and my groups shrunk.

Afterwords he told me a story of a guy on the NZ Army shooting team.

His weld with the rifle leaves his eye socket in contact with the optics and when he fires the rifle impacts with his eyebrow...leaving him with a nice bruise after shooting. But he's a winner of the Freyberg Cup...which means he gets results.....and if the results are that good...who cares how he does it?

[Undo]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

100-400 meters best range for VSS/VAL

beyond the bullet slows down too dramatic.

VSS and VAL are designed for urban situations like those encountered by SWAT type units and for urban fighting in places like Grozny and soon Baghdad. The 9X39 round is extremely effective out to 300m or so and has great penetration. I defer to the experts, but it is an awesome weapon.

[rob]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://www.gunsworld.com/gun_ar/graphs/as1.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

thanks, but permiskii posted a pictue, that is not shwoing up for me anyway untill i copied the link into the browser. so yeah i figured it out.

[RomanS]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

100-400 meters best range for VSS/VAL

beyond the bullet slows down too dramatic.

VSS and VAL are designed for urban situations like those encountered by SWAT type units and for urban fighting in places like Grozny and soon Baghdad. The 9X39 round is extremely effective out to 300m or so and has great penetration. I defer to the experts, but it is an awesome weapon.

how would you know

[Undo]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

100-400 meters best range for VSS/VAL

beyond the bullet slows down too dramatic.

VSS and VAL are designed for urban situations like those encountered by SWAT type units and for urban fighting in places like Grozny and soon Baghdad. The 9X39 round is extremely effective out to 300m or so and has great penetration. I defer to the experts, but it is an awesome weapon.

how would you know

Lol. Well, as you damn well know, I have put a few rounds down range with the VSS. I lust after the VAL, but haven't been able to use one. Yet. You haven't shot one by chance, have you? Lol.

[RomanS]

The AS Val's rear sight is further to the front than the AK family's.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val.jpg

Shorter radius, less accurate at long ranges? Does it matter if the rifle is intended for close range shooting?

100-400 meters best range for VSS/VAL

beyond the bullet slows down too dramatic.

VSS and VAL are designed for urban situations like those encountered by SWAT type units and for urban fighting in places like Grozny and soon Baghdad. The 9X39 round is extremely effective out to 300m or so and has great penetration. I defer to the experts, but it is an awesome weapon.

how would you know

Lol. Well, as you damn well know, I have put a few rounds down range with the VSS. I lust after the VAL, but haven't been able to use one. Yet. You haven't shot one by chance, have you? Lol.

Me?

nuh

its all CG Undo. Airsoft

[Undo]

Doh! That's right. Sorry.

извините меня. Вы вешаете лапшу на ваших ушах.

Teehee.

[RomanS]

Doh! That's right. Sorry.

извините меня. Вы вешаете лапшу на ваших ушах.

Teehee.

I don't remember sleeping on my stomach

[Undo]

Doh! That's right. Sorry.

извините меня. Вы вешаете лапшу на ваших ушах.

Teehee.

I don't remember sleeping on my stomach

...don't talk...

[RomanS]

Doh! That's right. Sorry.

извините меня. Вы вешаете лапшу на ваших ушах.

Teehee.

I don't remember sleeping on my stomach

...don't talk...

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[DPGLAW]

Considering everything that I have read about the Russian military and it's state of disarray I would venture to say that the reason for the return spring being out in the open is that it is broken like much of their other military equipment.

On top of that, in the photo the area where the spring is showing kind of looks as if it's broken to me. Although I am not by any stretch of the imagineation a firearms expert, it just looks wrong, therefore broken to me. Coupled with the fact that the Russian military itself is broken, I think it is plausible to say that it's probably broken. :)

[Undo]

Considering everything that I have read about the Russian military and it's state of disarray I would venture to say that the reason for the return spring being out in the open is that it is broken like much of their other military equipment.

On top of that, in the photo the area where the spring is showing kind of looks as if it's broken to me. Although I am not by any stretch of the imagineation a firearms expert, it just looks wrong, therefore broken to me. Coupled with the fact that the Russian military itself is broken, I think it is plausible to say that it's probably broken. :)

...don't talk...

[RomanS]

Although I am not by any stretch of the imagineation a firearms expert

agreed

don't sleep on your stomach ...

[American Patriot]

it's not broken. have you ever seen a spring compressed on a rod?

also the slot is there to accomodate the bolt carrier moving back during operation.

now apologize for being so stupid. rofl

[Deuterium]

1. I challenge anyone that is left-eye dominant to keep both eyes open and shoot (man size target) at any distance over 20 meters.
2. There are countless reasons to keep one eye shut. It is no strange coincidence that in competition shooting, say olympic competition, that the use of eye blinders for the non-firing eye are utilized.
3. Flagg is right, if you can hit the X's and do it quickly, who cares what your technique is.

[josh10524]

I am left-eye dominant, and shoot with both eyes open exclusively, iron sights or red dots. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with shooting with one eye closed. There are many techniques, and nothing will be the best for everyone. I understand that the U.S. Army trains to shoot with one eye closed, simply because about 25% of people can not ever make it work with both open. I don't know why I can shoot two eyes open with my left eye dominant, except that that's how I learned to shoot and never did it another way. It does give me better depth perception and opens up my peripheral vision. One situation it might be bad to shoot both open is if it's a very bright day and you are looking through a scope into a window or shadow. The brightness will make your eyes less sensitive and you might have trouble seeing into the window.

[5jumpchump]

Considering everything that I have read about the Russian military and it's state of disarray I would venture to say that the reason for the return spring being out in the open is that it is broken like much of their other military equipment.

On top of that, in the photo the area where the spring is showing kind of looks as if it's broken to me. Although I am not by any stretch of the imagineation a firearms expert, it just looks wrong, therefore broken to me. Coupled with the fact that the Russian military itself is broken, I think it is plausible to say that it's probably broken. :)

So you would survive a Russian firing squad then riiiiiiiight ? :bash:

[UkrainianAmerican]

Considering everything that I have read about the Russian military and it's state of disarray I would venture to say that the reason for the return spring being out in the open is that it is broken like much of their other military equipment.

On top of that, in the photo the area where the spring is showing kind of looks as if it's broken to me. Although I am not by any stretch of the imagineation a firearms expert, it just looks wrong, therefore broken to me. Coupled with the fact that the Russian military itself is broken, I think it is plausible to say that it's probably broken. :)

So you would survive a Russian firing squad then riiiiiiiight ? :bash:
PWN3D!

[5jumpchump]

ZACKLY !

[Scrim]

The Marine Corps taught me to shoot with one eye closed. I think the Corps might know a little about marksmanship.
The only people Ive ever heard going on about shooting with both eyes open, are civillians. But hey thats just me.

[Fargin]

All I remember is my DI telling me how having atleast one eye open would dramaticly increase my accuracy and that I was a nogood son of a...

[Deuterium]

I am left-eye dominant, and shoot with both eyes open exclusively, iron sights or red dots. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with shooting with one eye closed. There are many techniques, and nothing will be the best for everyone. I understand that the U.S. Army trains to shoot with one eye closed, simply because about 25% of people can not ever make it work with both open. I don't know why I can shoot two eyes open with my left eye dominant, except that that's how I learned to shoot and never did it another way. It does give me better depth perception and opens up my peripheral vision. One situation it might be bad to shoot both open is if it's a very bright day and you are looking through a scope into a window or shadow. The brightness will make your eyes less sensitive and you might have trouble seeing into the window.

Then your dominance is VERY small. Most people, regardless of their eye dominance see a double focus on close objects with their un-dominant eye.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

The Marine Corps taught me to shoot with one eye closed. I think the Corps might know a little about marksmanship.
The only people Ive ever heard going on about shooting with both eyes open, are civillians. But hey thats just me.

Only time I thought you were supposed to keep both eyes open was if you were using a red dot sight and you were in very close quarters (i.e. room clearing)...am I right?

[iflu]

Ok i have to make it clear. First of all, i would not argue my credibility. We never use any patch (or it is impossible) and someone noticed that during matches some sportsmen use patch partly because they may be not quite convenient with the other eye half-opened in that enviroment and I think that they will not use the patch to cover their eyes completely. i mean they may just use sth to avoid strong light or other disturbtions to concentrate.

I m sad that i did not read strong posts. ok let me explain it. in fact the other eye is not fully opened (some people can do it, but i cant). it is half opened (or u can say it is half closed) and DOES NOT FOCUS. it may need some training to get used to that with only one eye focusing but two eyes open. I wish somebody good could correct me.

So maybe your trainer would not put focus on how u aim rather how u pull the triger. I can understand coz it is also important for accuracy.

[Steve Andrews]

Both eyes closed does it for me.

But seriously, when target shooting I keep one eye closed to aquire the target (and make sure I'm shooting on the right lane!) then open them both. I find that this puts less strain on the shooting eye.
Many shooting sportsmen wear a patch on their non-aiming eye.

Both eyes open is also use for close range, instinctive shooting.

Lol that's funny , i do the exact opposite ! I keep both eyes open with the front post down and out of view . I get the general direction , point at the target and when i at least have the barrel lined up i pull the front sight post into view . When I'm close i close and eye and concentrate on perfecting my aim to the center of the target and then concentrate on breathing and stillness . Some ugly bastard with a funny hat with a big set of lungs told me this is a good way of setting up a kill :lol:

We have our wires crossed. For deliberate shooting I use the method you have quoted, up to the point of breathing..stillness - I then open both eyes...
It has worked for me.....
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9514/2004_0615Image0001.jpg

[Ichhabe]

Or to say it short & sweet: There is a time for having both eyes open and there is a time for having one eye open. But the worst is when both is closed.

[gregom]

It really depends. With ironsights though, I always shoot with my one eye. With a scope I sometimes have both open so I can see what's around the target, but when I want to focus on the shot and make sure I hit it, I close my other eye. With a red-dot sight both eyes are open, except if I'm shooting a target in the distance.

I say use whatever is most comfortable and effective. It's who gets the first shot more accuratly who wins.