Question about privately owned weapons and unit armorers

[Pappy]

I'm my Company's armorer and I also have to store my personal rifle in the arms room because I'm forced to live in the barracks. My Commander thinks that according to regulations I'm not allowed to sign out my own weapon. He also thinks that every time I open up the arms room, the arms room officer is supposed to be at the Company. Does anybody happen to know the regulations on either of these issues?

[Hollis]

I'm my Company's armorer and I also have to store my personal rifle in the arms room because I'm forced to live in the barracks. My Commander thinks that according to regulations I'm not allowed to sign out my own weapon. He also thinks that every time I open up the arms room, the arms room officer is supposed to be at the Company. Does anybody happen to know the regulations on either of these issues?


Sure you want to get into a pissing match with your CO?

[Pappy]

Sure you want to get into a pissing match with your CO?

Haha, definately sage advice, but he's reasonable. I just have to show him the regs if they help me out any. I may have to read AR 190-11 from cover to cover but I was hoping somebody might be able to help out.

[LineDoggie]

IIRC, permission to open the Arms Room must be obtained from the Unit Commander.

When I lived in the Barracks at Hood Back in 1982, I was the Armorer and If I wanted to take My M1 Carbine or M1903 Springfield out to shoot, I had to run it up the chain for an OK, I couldnt just get keys and open it for Sh_ts and Giggles. Have you thought of asking your base PMO Office?

[Laconian]

I'm with Linedoggie. Any POWs removed from the Arms Room had to have the blessings of the CO. I was delegated with responsibility as the XO (and Arms Room OIC). The Arms Room should have an Access Control Log for signing in/out everybody entering and any wpn entering/leaving.

[Pappy]

IIRC, permission to open the Arms Room must be obtained from the Unit Commander.

When I lived in the Barracks at Hood Back in 1982, I was the Armorer and If I wanted to take My M1 Carbine or M1903 Springfield out to shoot, I had to run it up the chain for an OK, I couldnt just get keys and open it for Sh_ts and Giggles. Have you thought of asking your base PMO Office?

Yeah, it's kind of odd. When I first had him sign the memorandum to allow it in the arms room, he said I just had to ask him for permission when I wanted to take it out. So I asked him today about taking it out this weekend to go hunting. It was then that he said I couldn't sign it out to myself and that the arms room officer was also supposed to be present at the company when I open the arms room. So unless I can find some regs that state otherwise, I'll most likely have to have my assistant and the arms room OIC both come in on weekends to take it out. It seems rediculous, but this is the Army so who knows. He did allow me to take it out this weekend as long as the staff duty officer came over to the company while I did it, but it's just a one time exception I think.

[LineDoggie]

See the Issue isnt just your firearm(s). As you know the Arms Room is a Controlled Area. Without Supervision, whats to stop anyone with the keys from Helping themselves to Government Weapons at the same time. Thats why having an XO present Protects You in case something does come up Missing or damaged, etc. I remember another Companies Armorer took the Cdrs M1911 to the sportsmans range and broke it badly. Come Monday how he explained it was being fired was an interesting Sworn Statement. He looked funny as a 30 year old PV2 afterwards working that swingblade at Forty Acres on weekends

[ZoneOne]

I assume the weapon is registered on post since it is there in the arms room - there should be no reason you can not sign it out - as long as you have schedule a time to sign it back in -- it's your POW.

[phigment]

Why not just sign it out and leave it at a friend's house off base?

[hitmonjules]

Hoooo boy, this brings back memories. I got lucky. I had a commander who rightfully trusted me and as long as I correctly signed out the keys from battalion and signed them back in, punched in the code to enter and leave, I was good. It allowed me to get a LOT of necessary work done and my chain of command was impressed with my dedication to my new position. The bad stuff: there is a reason you should have a witness, if not the XO (who IMHO shouldn't be bothered with every niggling thing) then at least the CQ. The trick is, for how long? I have spent full weekends getting weapons ready for deployment and no one wants to spend their family time to watch someone beyond reproach in the arms room. Problem is, trust is one thing. Murphy's Law is another, and it happens.

During my stint, the CO didn't care about privately owned weapons being signed out, but if you as the armorer let it out, you are responsible for being there to get it turned back in. As a barracks rat, that should be no problem for you.

[dangerdan87]

In the Marines, we're allowed to have personal firearms on base as long as you sign them in and keep them in the armory. You can take it out when you want to go to the range which more then likely will have to be on base as we cant have firearms in vehicles unless its a government vehicle. Its a pain in the ass, as the custodians (the guys who give your weapons to you out of the armory) are lazy and usually married and dont want to come to the armory so you can take your stuff out and back in later. And having to walk to the range talk to Range Control etc etc. If you live off base, then keep them in your house and go to a civilian range.

[Pappy]

linedoggie and hitmonjules, you make good points. However, I'm the only one authorized unaccompanied access to the arms room. Key word being unaccompanied, so required supervision would seem to go against that. And until I put my own POW into the arms room, I never had an issue with opening it up unsupervised. Oh well, I may just see if I can convince him that our 24 Company CQ is enough of a supervision. Thanks for everybody's input.

[dave81]

You could just do what my buddy does, and rent a locker (like $20 a year) at a gun shop off post.

[Firefly26]

The CO should have a written request procedure for opening the armsroom. When I was in Germany in 1998, I had my USP in the armsroom, and I was also the BN S2 physec NCO so I also had unaccompanied access. All I had to do was give the CO a written request ahead of time and once he signed it, it was on the armorer and I to open and close. I don't know if you are an NCO or not, but if you weren't I could see there being a leadership supervision issue that may make the CO uneasy. Maybe getting the SDNCO to be present when you opened and closed would cover that gap. If you are in CONUS and can get a POW without having to register it on post, I would recommend having a place to keep it off post, with someone whom you could trust. It was pretty stupid that I had to keep my POW in the armsroom while other NCOs in the housing areas could keep theirs at home.