Rahm Emanuel favors compulsory universal service

[Fade]

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
November 6, 10:03 AM

Rep. Rahm Emanuel (http://www.house.gov/emanuel/photos.shtml) of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586484125/), that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:
"It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster.

These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

Story continued....
(http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner%7Ey2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service)

[Moledet]

3 months of your life for your country? DISASTER.

[RoyB]

I'm sure they'll be very patriotic for 3 months..

[Albatross]

This is a ****ing mistake!!! This is the kind of stuff that everyone was worried about when this ****stick was elected. I was thinking, its just a bunch of hype. Surely Obama wont get all radical, nope here it is. You should only volunteer if you want to serve, it brings a higher quality of service to our country. Good voting hippies, lets see how you like basic.

[LineDoggie]

Ahhhhhh, nothing spells Patriot like being Pressganged...

will they get little red books with "O"s on the cover?

Will we now have to call the Annointed one the "Dear Leader"?

[LineDoggie]

wait, universal Service Before moving onto the Military or Civilian world?????? That seems vaguely Familiar


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/800px-RAD_Hausflagge_svg.png


Reich Arbeits Dienst anyone?

[Moledet]

Ahhhhhh, nothing spells Patriot like being Pressganged...

will they get little red books with "O"s on the cover?

Will we now have to call the Annointed one the "Dear Leader"?
What's the big deal about doing some community service? Seems like you care only about yourself over there. Why not volunteer to help? Even in HS here it's mandatory to volunteer to help the elderly or children for one year in order to get your diploma.

Then you are surprised when someone is dying on the street and people just walk by...

[Mr.Flint]

What's the big deal about doing some community service? Seems like you care only about yourself over there. Why not volunteer to help? Even in HS here it's mandatory to volunteer to help the elderly or children for one year in order to get your diploma.

Then you are surprised when someone is dying on the street and people just walk by...
Word.
I volunteered to help deaf children in HS, as well in Big Brother program. And i dont remember me being an evil commie :) quite the opposite actually.

Not so long ago an elderly lady fell, right in front of a walk in clinic. I was right behind her, and saw her falling. There were two nurses at the clinic entrance, smoking. When i yelled for them to come help and the lady, as her face was a complete mess, replied that they are busy, and didnt lift a finger, I actually had to walk to lady into the clinic and find a more sensible nurse.

[Albatross]

What's the big deal about doing some community service? Seems like you care only about yourself over there. Why not volunteer to help? Even in HS here it's mandatory to volunteer to help the elderly or children for one year in order to get your diploma.

Then you are surprised when someone is dying on the street and people just walk by...

Most high schools here require community service, at least on some level, to graduate. I say most, but that actually means in the midwest.


Word.
I volunteered to help deaf children in HS, as well in Big Brother program. And i dont remember me being an evil commie :) quite the opposite actually.

[I can't think of a name]

The problem with it is that you don't have the free will to choose. I am beyond the requirment. So I hope he does it. It will make the "youth vote" turn on him in no time.

[Mr.Flint]

Most high schools here require community service, at least on some level, to graduate. I say most, but that actually means in the midwest.
Volunteered, in a sense that i had the choice where to do the community service, but there was no choice in doing community service or not.

[Albatross]

Volunteered, in a sense that i had the choice where to do the community service, but there was no choice in doing community service or not.

gotcha....

[Moledet]

The problem with it is that you don't have the free will to choose. I am beyond the requirment. So I hope he does it. It will make the "youth vote" turn on him in no time.
It won't since if they enjoy it they will vote for him in 4 years and if they don't they wouldn't want it canceled because they did it, so the younger generation must do it too.

[California Joe]

F*ck em. Teenagers are annoying as hell. They should make them all do compulsory service with former Marine Drill Instructors as bosses.

[Cornerstone]

What does it matter rahm doesn't dictate his own policy

[Connaught Ranger]

This is a ****ing mistake!!! This is the kind of stuff that everyone was worried about when this ****stick was elected. I was thinking, its just a bunch of hype. Surely Obama wont get all radical, nope here it is. You should only volunteer if you want to serve, it brings a higher quality of service to our country. Good voting hippies, lets see how you like basic.



Read it again its:-

three months of civilian service, no mention of the military:roll:

[Connaught Ranger]

wait, universal Service Before moving onto the Military or Civilian world?????? That seems vaguely Familiar


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/800px-RAD_Hausflagge_svg.png


Reich Arbeits Dienst anyone?

No connection what so ever, the RAD was ran as a quasi military system, in the 3 months civil service who you gonna shoot with a pen ?:roll:

Where do you get the
"Before moving onto the Military or Civilian world"bit from?

[LineDoggie]

What does it matter rahm doesn't dictate his own policy

SENIOR AIDE, try Google-fu on the Job and see if he has no power

[Cornerstone]

SENIOR AIDE, try Google-fu on the Job and see if he has no power
I understand the position and all, however it is up to Obama he has the final say

[C.MAXIMUS]

I think it is not a bad idea. They want to bring it back in the UK as some youth lacks all sense.

[philbob]

F*ck em. Teenagers are annoying as hell. They should make them all do compulsory service with former Marine Drill Instructors as bosses.

second that oooh three whole months lawdedaw... I wonder how many of them will be whining about how unfair it is that they have to do it

[JKD]

Take out the compulsory part and it's not a bad idea.

A few months learning first aid, cpr, physical fitness, and what to do in a disaster, natural or otherwise, wouldn't be such a bad thing. Throw in some leadership and teamwork training.

Give 'em college credit for it.

[Cornerstone]

Take out the compulsory part and it's not a bad idea.

A few months learning first aid, cpr, physical fitness, and what to do in a disaster, natural or otherwise, wouldn't be such a bad thing. Throw in some leadership and teamwork training.

Give 'em college credit for it.
I don't know if yall realize this but some of the kids these days can't run up the stairs let alone exercise and pt....

[philbob]

The problem with it is that you don't have the free will to choose. I am beyond the requirment. So I hope he does it. It will make the "youth vote" turn on him in no time.

true that, the majority of the youth are notriously (sp?) selfish and wont go for that and im speaking as someone in there age group (24) but i also did the military....

On the otherhand i didnt exactly care for Obama and didnt vote for him but i was exstatic when i heard him tell his followers that they were supposed to bring about the 'change' from here on outrofl

[NathS]

wait, universal Service Before moving onto the Military or Civilian world?????? That seems vaguely Familiar


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/800px-RAD_Hausflagge_svg.png


Reich Arbeits Dienst anyone?

For a better dramatic effect, I suggest you comparing Rahm's idea with concentration camps, to show people hom much fascist HUSSEIN is.

After all RAD was quite nice, I mean my grandmother had the fabulous opportunity to build radios for the Fuhrer, too bas she wasn't paid (nor German, fot that matters).

Idiot.

[Rictor]

Not that I'm a big fan of Obama, but should I be given to understand that before 1973 the United States was a despotic tyranny because military service was involuntary? I wasn't alive then, but I doubt that the vast majority of people were busy decrying the infringement of their fundamental rights for the past 200-odd years.

I'm still against it, because it's utterly unnecessary. But the argument "ZOMG, evil Obama wants to turns us into the USSR!11" is a bit weak.

[RoyB]

A country like the US don't need any compulsory service, at least not now..
But having community service for some time is important and helpful.

[California Joe]

Maybe he favors the Israeli model where young people are required to give a sh*t about their country.

I'm still confused by the whole hippy liberal pacifist = Nazi stormtroopers thing going on.

[Buckeye67]

Obama already has (well had) this on the change.gov website. When the site first went up it said that they wanted to implement mandatory "community service" - not just for kids in middle and high school and college - but for adults as well. Specifically mentioned were "Youth Corps", "Classroom Corps", Veterans Corps (like volunteering to serve your country for 4 years isn't enough) and a program for age 55 and up people.

There was a pretty major reaction to this on the intarwebs, and wonder of wonders - they changed what the website says.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/11/hah-obamas-changegov-caught-changing.html

[philbob]

Maybe he favors the Israeli model where young people are required to give a sh*t about their country.

I'm still confused by the whole hippy liberal pacifist = Nazi stormtroopers thing going on.


WEll that would require that our public school teach that is country is a good place .....:roll:

[Hot Lips]

F*ck em. Teenagers are annoying as hell. They should make them all do compulsory service with former Marine Drill Instructors as bosses.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea to get them involved in their community and trained to help in the face of disaster. Maybe as a summer gig Freshmen and Sophmore years at college. I would image they would be paid and benefits during this time as well. Receive credits towards graduation...

[XShipRider]

Now, how would you go about ensuring everyone actually performs their compulsory service? Hmm... Maybe some sort of national ID card. Where have I heard this idea before?

[Hot Lips]

I'm still confused by the whole hippy liberal pacifist = Nazi stormtroopers thing going on.

Projecting

[Hot Lips]

Now, how would you go about ensuring everyone actually performs their compulsory service? Hmm... Maybe some sort of national ID card. Where have I heard this idea before?

No problem with that either. I have a SS card, a drivers license, a birth certificate, etc... might as well have a smart card and get our national records straight in a centralized database. Something most businesses do because it makes sense. Running a country is a business of sorts.

[zonk]

I think it is a good idea, if it were me it would be 2 years mandatory government service in one of the branches of the armed forces to all able minded/bodied folks. I saw basic training break a lot of hard headed folks and turn them into team players.

[LineDoggie]

for a better dramatic effect, i suggest you comparing rahm's idea with concentration camps, to show people hom much fascist hussein is.

After all rad was quite nice, i mean my grandmother had the fabulous opportunity to build radios for the fuhrer, too bas she wasn't paid (nor german, fot that matters).

Idiot.ألف ألف ديكس في حسابك الحمار

[LaoSexMachine]

I like it. FFS it's only 3 months not an enlistment.

[XShipRider]

No problem with that either. I have a SS card, a drivers license, a birth certificate, etc... might as well have a smart card and get our national records straight in a centralized database. Something most businesses do because it makes sense. Running a country is a business of sorts.

And just imagine the potential for abuse.

[Kippari]

This is a ****ing mistake!!! This is the kind of stuff that everyone was worried about when this ****stick was elected. I was thinking, its just a bunch of hype. Surely Obama wont get all radical, nope here it is. You should only volunteer if you want to serve, it brings a higher quality of service to our country. Good voting hippies, lets see how you like basic.

Eh? people who volunteer for anything like that usually aren't from the brightest end. That includes military too. You can do those jobs with an IQ equal to you shoe size.:)

[Henry's Fork]

Already starting to regret voting for the man, and its way too early for that.

In Scouts we live volunteer comunity service, and doing so requires alot of time, planning and energy. This is for 15 to 25 kids, one scout troop of kids who are behaving most of the time. So i can only see the huge amount of work ahead to organize the millions of kids all over the US to get some sort of plan going, let alone deal with huge amount of "troublemakers" that are in these millions of kids.

Dam the torpedos, large bloated red taped up government black hole feel good programs full steam ahead!! toot toot!!

[Hot Lips]

And just imagine the potential for abuse.

They already have your information in one form or another. The potential for abuse is always there. I don't fear that our government is going to "go rogue" at least not until 2012. ;)

I just don't believe it's something to be feared by law abiding citizens.

Are you a member of the military? Do you have a CAC card?

[LoboCanada]

Doesn't sound like a bad idea to get them involved in their community and trained to help in the face of disaster. Maybe as a summer gig Freshmen and Sophmore years at college. I would image they would be paid and benefits during this time as well. Receive credits towards graduation...

We have the exact thing in Canada. Maybe a slightly different one would be good. In Canada you have the option for Military Co-op where you do BMQ in the place of a semester, which earns you a BMQ, a few $thousand, and 4 credits (what you would get in a full semester at school.

I don't see how 3 months (OMG!:roll:) of community service would be bad. If it trains young people how to help and react in a natural/ civil disaster then how could it be a bad thing?

[boone]

I don't see how 3 months (OMG!:roll:) of community service would be bad. If it trains young people how to help and react in a natural/ civil disaster then how could it be a bad thing?

Clearly, you have misplaced your tinfoil hat.

[Horse Thief]

Heh, everyone's a big patriot, but when someone actualy proposes a way for everyone to help the community and country, everyone is on some "I have my rights! I don't have to do anything! I don't care about thos epeople i work hard for my money, I'm ahalalalalalalalalalala".

Hillarious.

[Albatross]

Read it again its:-

three months of civilian service, no mention of the military:roll:

Ok, but its still forced service in the land of the free. Give the kids a free year of college, or if they choose the military give them a free rank jump. Forcing these kids to do it is wrong. This is a very slippery slope, very.

[Albatross]

Eh? people who volunteer for anything like that usually aren't from the brightest end. That includes military too. You can do those jobs with an IQ equal to you shoe size.:)

I volunteered, as did quite a few people that post here, and find myself to be a quite a bit smarter than you. It should be volunteer only. I have served with people whom got the option, go to jail or go to the army. They were always ****bags, always. So unless you speak from exp. I strongly suggest you stfu.

[Raven_gr]

In ancient Athens military service was a requisite to gaining full political rights and so only citizens could become soldiers and join the phalanx. Only residents that could become citizens enjoyed that right and was considered duty and an honor.

From Aristotle's "Politics"


The present state of the constitution is as follows. The franchise is open to all who are of citizen birth by both parents. They are enrolled among the demesmen at the age of eighteen. On the occasion of their enrollment the demesmen give their votes on oath, first whether the candidates appear to be of the age prescribed by the law (if not, they are dismissed back into the ranks of the boys), and secondly whether the candidate is free born and of such parentage as the laws require. Then if they decide that he is not a free man, he appeals to the law-courts, and the demesmen appoint five of their own number to act as accusers; if the court decides that he has no right to be enrolled, he is sold by the state as a slave, but if he wins his case he has a right to be enrolled among the demesmen without further question. After this the Council examines those who have been enrolled, and if it comes to the conclusion that any of them is less than eighteen years of age, it fines the demesmen who enrolled him. When the youths (Ephebi) have passed this examination, their fathers meet by their tribes, and appoint on oath three of their fellow tribesmen, over forty years of age, who, in their opinion, are the best and most suitable persons to have charge of the youths; and of these the Assembly elects one from each tribe as guardian, together with a director, chosen from the general body of Athenians, to control the while. Under the charge of these persons the youths first of all make the circuit of the temples; then they proceed to Piraeus, and some of them garrison Munichia and some the south shore. The Assembly also elects two trainers, with subordinate instructors, who teach them to fight in heavy armour, to use the bow and javelin, and to discharge a catapult. The guardians receive from the state a drachma apiece for their keep, and the youths four obols apiece. Each guardian receives the allowance for all the members of his tribe and buys the necessary provisions for the common stock (they mess together by tribes), and generally superintends everything. In this way they spend the first year. The next year, after giving a public display of their military evolutions, on the occasion when the Assembly meets in the theatre, they receive a shield and spear from the state; after which they patrol the country and spend their time in the forts. For these two years they are on garrison duty, and wear the military cloak, and during this time they are exempt from all taxes. They also can neither bring an action at law, nor have one brought against them, in order that they may have no excuse for requiring leave of absence; though exception is made in cases of actions concerning inheritances and wards of state, or of any sacrificial ceremony connected with the family. When the two years have elapsed they thereupon take their position among the other citizens. Such is the manner of the enrollment of the citizens and the training of the youths.

These youths with their induction to this institution to the Ephebic college swore the ephebic oath:



We will never bring disgrace on this our City by an act of dishonesty or cowardice.
We will fight for the ideals and Sacred Things of the City both alone and with many.
We will revere and obey the City’s laws, and will do our best to incite a like reverence and respect in those above us who are ****e to annul them or set them at naught.
We will strive increasingly to quicken the public’s sense of civic duty.
Thus in all these ways we will transmit this City, not only not less, but greater and more beautiful than it was transmitted to us.

http://www.imageshack.gr/files/tdoo0o3enlyup66ovqee.gif (http://www.imageshack.gr/view.php?file=tdoo0o3enlyup66ovqee.gif)

check this out for a more detailed analysis

http://www.unc.edu/~sfox/classics.html

Civic service is linked to your civic rights. How can a person demand the privileges of liberty democracy provides when he does not respond to his civic duties?

[XShipRider]

They already have your information in one form or another. The potential for abuse is always there. I don't fear that our government is going to "go rogue" at least not until 2012. ;)

I just don't believe it's something to be feared by law abiding citizens.

Are you a member of the military? Do you have a CAC card?

Retired, which means they have my fingerprints, photos, pretty much everywhere I've lived for 30 years, my DNA, and a whole lot more because I had to fill out security clearance paperwork every five years. It's not me I'm worried about since I willingly put all that info at the government's fingertips. It's Joe Average who wants to go through life anonymously, or relatively so, that concerns me.

I'll grant you, marketers probably have better databases than the government right now. But that info isn't supposed to be obtainable by our government without proper warrant, aside from the gray area of seeking out potential terrorists.

The problem I have is your tongue in cheek statement of going "rogue" at some later time. The best of intentions can go horribly wrong or be intentionally abused by some future governmental body. The SS card was not intended to be any sort of national ID, in reality it has become a simple form of one.

[Cedan]

Civic service is linked to your civic rights. How can a person demand the privileges of liberty democracy provides when he does not respond to his civic duties?

Absolutely agree! Very well said! woot

[gaijinsamurai]

x3. Well said, Raven.
I've got no problem with this. Military service should still be voluntary, but I think young people, as well as the country, can benefit from something like this.

[LineDoggie]

Heh, everyone's a big patriot, but when someone actualy proposes a way for everyone to help the community and country, everyone is on some "I have my rights! I don't have to do anything! I don't care about thos epeople i work hard for my money, I'm ahalalalalalalalalalala".

Hillarious.


Crack is Wack, dude.

[Hot Lips]

Retired, which means they have my fingerprints, photos, pretty much everywhere I've lived for 30 years, my DNA, and a whole lot more because I had to fill out security clearance paperwork every five years. It's not me I'm worried about since I willingly put all that info at the government's fingertips. It's Joe Average who wants to go through life anonymously, or relatively so, that concerns me.

I'll grant you, marketers probably have better databases than the government right now. But that info isn't supposed to be obtainable by our government without proper warrant, aside from the gray area of seeking out potential terrorists.

The problem I have is precisely your tongue in cheek statement of "going rogue" at some later time. The best of intentions can go horribly wrong or be intentionally abused by some future governmental body. The SS card was not intended to be any sort of national ID.


If the government "goes rogue" in this Zombie Movie theory of yours do you expect law enforcement, the military, retirees, etc all who already have their info on file to just mindlessly go along? Do you expect that our electoral process would put someone in office that would undermine and control all these people as well as the civilians ready to defend our way of life?

Joe Average isn't going through life anonymously. If he thinks he is, he's ignorant. Joe Average has SS card, drivers license, birth certificate, etc. He has benefits cards, records with utility companies, fire arm purchase records, etc. Joe Average is not off the grid by any means.

All a smart card does is makes record keeping more cost efficient. That's why the military does it and military personnel goes along with it. It makes sense. They already have the information.

[Horse Thief]

Crack is Wack, dude.

It's also a money drainer :(

*bludgens you to death and takes your shoes*

[I can't think of a name]

Starship Troopers (A fascists book by the left's standards) required military service to be a full citizen.

[zonk]

Ok, but its still forced service in the land of the free. Give the kids a free year of college, or if they choose the military give them a free rank jump. Forcing these kids to do it is wrong. This is a very slippery slope, very.


very true, vietnam was proof that forcing someone to serve is a bad idea. forcing someone to serve against their will isn't going to make the situation any better. I am willing to bet though that if you ask them, a large majority would say they were proud to serve their country. I also personally believe the president of the USA needs to be a Vet, I think it would give them further insight into what we go through, another thing is that officers need to spend 2 years as enlisted prior to going officer so they also can see things from our perspective.

[Connaught Ranger]

very true, vietnam was proof that forcing someone to serve is a bad idea. forcing someone to serve against their will isn't going to make the situation any better. I am willing to bet though that if you ask them, a large majority would say they were proud to serve their country. I also personally believe the president of the USA needs to be a Vet, I think it would give them further insight into what we go through, another thing is that officers need to spend 2 years as enlisted prior to going officer so they also can see things from our perspective.

There is no comparison between being drafted to serve in the military

and having to serve in your local area, State, country, in a civil organization

which has no connection with the military whatsoever,

its like saying if you volunteer for the Red Cross,

you gonna serve in a war zone.

Why should the President of the USA have to be a vet?

most of them in the past never were.

Also by adopting that method you shortlist those who

would be eligible to apply for the job, including most women.

[Albatross]

There is no comparison between being drafted to serve in the military

and having to serve in your local area, State, country, in a civil organization

which has no connection with the military whatsoever,

its like saying if you volunteer for the Red Cross,

you gonna serve in a war zone.

Why should the President of the USA have to be a vet?

most of them in the past never were.

Also by adopting that method you shortlist those who

would be eligible to apply for the job, including most women.

Women can join the military:roll:. It is the most important job in our country, if not the world. It should be a very, very short list.

[LineDoggie]

Starship Troopers (A fascists book by the left's standards) required military service to be a full citizen.


Well good thing were not fighting Space Roaches then.....

[Hot Lips]

I don't think the president should have to be a Vet. There are high ranking military personnel and advisors to represent military interests always in place.

[Albatross]

Well good thing were not fighting Space Roaches yet.....

fixed it for you.

[philbob]

I think it is a good idea, if it were me it would be 2 years mandatory government service in one of the branches of the armed forces to all able minded/bodied folks. I saw basic training break a lot of hard headed folks and turn them into team players.


I love that idea

[Macs.]

It's a interesting topic. We still have mandatory military service here (Only for men) but the military doesn't even need that much people these days. The alternative is social service.

It's also very easy to avoid military service, with a simple letter explaining why you can't imagine to shoot a human being etc pp.

[NavyTimes]

What's the big deal about doing some community service? Seems like you care only about yourself over there. Why not volunteer to help? Even in HS here it's mandatory to volunteer to help the elderly or children for one year in order to get your diploma.

Then you are surprised when someone is dying on the street and people just walk by...


I was thinking along the same lines as this gentleman. I served 12 months conscription duty for my country, and had no problem with it.

I have to say I am a bit surprised that national duty is so controvercial in a country that is talking so much about PATRITISM!




It's a interesting topic. We still have mandatory military service here (Only for men) but the military doesn't even need that much people these days. The alternative is social service.

It's also very easy to avoid military service, with a simple letter explaining why you can't imagine to shoot a human being etc pp.

Sounds like you have the exact same system as us. We're also taking in just a small percentage of the yearly resource pool, so it can be seen as a little bit unfair for those that are conscripted.

[IDF_TANKER]

Maybe he favors the Israeli model where young people are required to give a sh*t about their country.

I'm still confused by the whole hippy liberal pacifist = Nazi stormtroopers thing going on.

Very much possible - his parents are Israelis:

Rahm Israel Emanuel (Hebrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language): רם עמנואל‎) was born in Chicago, Illinois.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-BioGuide_Emanuel-30) His first name, Rahm, means "high" or "lofty" in Hebrew,[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-Kuttler-31) while his last name, Emanuel, means "God is with us." According to his father (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_M._Emanuel), his son is the namesake of Rahamim, a Lehi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29) combatant who was killed.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-Haa_20081106-32) Rahm’s surname was adopted by his family in 1933, after Rahm’s paternal uncle, Emanuel Auerbach, was killed in a skirmish with Arabs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) in Jerusalem.[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-NYT_Bumiller_199706015-33) His father, the Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem)-born Benjamin M. Emanuel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_M._Emanuel), is a pediatrician and former member of the Irgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun),[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-Haa_20081106-32) a Zionist militia active in the British Mandate of Palestine between 1931 and 1948. His mother, Martha Smulevitz, worked as an X-ray technician and was the daughter of a local union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_union) organizer.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-RS-5) She became a civil rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights) activist; she was also once the owner of a Chicago-area rock and roll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll) club.[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-NYT_Bumiller_199706015-33) The two met in Chicago in the 1950s.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-washpost-34) Emanuel's older brother, Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel_J._Emanuel), is an oncologist and bioethicist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioethicist), and his brother Ari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ari_Emanuel) is a talent agent in Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles) who inspired Jeremy Piven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Piven)'s character Ari Gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ari_Gold_%28Entourage%29) on the HBO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO) series Entourage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entourage_%28television_series%29).[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-RS-5) Emanuel himself is the inspiration for the character Josh Lyman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Lyman) on The West Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_West_Wing)[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-35). Emanuel is a first cousin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_cousin) of Howard Stern Show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howard_Stern_Show) writer Benjy Bronk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjy_Bronk). [6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-RS-5) Emanuel also has a younger adopted sister named Shoshanna, 14 years his junior.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-RS-5)[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel#cite_note-NYT_Bumiller_199706015-33)
Quite fascinating family history he has, conspiracy theorists will crazy about this ****...

Israeli model works for Israel, being a melting pot of Israeli society etc. However it also has several problems: most of all, excess (and, as a result, waste) of human resources. IDF has huge "hidden unemployment" problem, when only relatively small part of army are actually combat soldiers or doing other important jobs in Intelligence, technological divisions etc, there is an enormous "army" of "sprinkler operators" of various kinds which spend much of the time home and do almost nothing when in army - hardly something contributing to their sense of patriotism.

[IDF_TANKER]

It's a interesting topic. We still have mandatory military service here (Only for men) but the military doesn't even need that much people these days. The alternative is social service.

It's also very easy to avoid military service, with a simple letter explaining why you can't imagine to shoot a human being etc pp.

The same in Israel and also very easy to avoid service, all you need to do is to explain to your recruiting officer that you really-really want to get a rifle so you could shoot many Arabs (ironically enough).

[LineDoggie]

I was thinking along the same lines as this gentleman. I served 12 months conscription duty for my country, and had no problem with it.

I have to say I am a bit surprised that national duty is so controvercial in a country that is talking so much about PATRITISM!

That would be PATRIOTISM! ;-)

The USA has a Tradition of Free Will, and one of the reasons for the war of 1812 was Americans Being Pressganged into the RN, we dont particularly like the idea of People being Pressganged or Shanghaied in Involuntary "Voluntary" Service.

A True Volunteer typically works Better than someone being Forced


Call it a quirk

[California Joe]

A "true" teenager in the US right now couldn't give 2 sh*ts about their country, service to said country, or parents. They would however play PS3 until their thumbs bleed, gain more weight than a middle aged alcoholic, and wear more black than Johnny Cash.

Waiting for them to "volunteer" for anything is like waiting for a frost in hell.

[NavyTimes]

That would be PATRIOTISM! ;-)
A True Volunteer typically works Better than someone being Forced

That is not necessarily true. A conscripted army is arguably more in touch with the population, and is probably less inclined to stray away from the interests of the people.

I am also quite sure that I will be able to pick quite a few conscripted armies that have won wars, if we take a look in the history books.

[philbob]

A "true" teenager in the US right now couldn't give 2 sh*ts about their country, service to said country, or parents. They would however play PS3 until their thumbs bleed, gain more weight than a middle aged alcoholic, and wear more black than Johnny Cash.

Waiting for them to "volunteer" for anything is like waiting for a frost in hell.

second that (sadly), which again is why i loved how obama passed the 'change' ball to the people in the audiance on election night.

[LineDoggie]

That is not necessarily true. A conscripted army is arguably more in touch with the population, and is probably less inclined to stray away from the interests of the people.

I am also quite sure that I will be able to pick quite a few conscripted armies that have won wars, if we take a look in the history books. Well, when I am in an Alley in Sadr City with My Squad, I would much rather have the Volunteer Manning the M2HB in the Support By Fire, than some scmendrick who doesnt care because he's annoyed that his life was interrupted and Hates "Lifers".

How about You? You willing to trust someone who doesnt want to be there with Your Life?

[Rynnäkkökivääri]

Wouldn't the 13th Amendment make this illegal? It states that " Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Unless all of a sudden everybody's a criminal, this would be illegal. Then again, the drafts in years past would have been illegal too, so they may take precedent from them.

EDIT: Well, the SCOTUS ruled in Butler v Perry (1916) that the military draft was not involuntary servitude. So either the SCOTUS would have to include any form of servitude to the government, or they would have to make it a military draft.

[brainplay]

I think it is a good idea, if it were me it would be 2 years mandatory government service in one of the branches of the armed forces to all able minded/bodied folks. I saw basic training break a lot of hard headed folks and turn them into team players.

You saw basic break alot of hard headed VOLUNTEERS and turn them into team players. Conscripted recruits in countries that pull that kind of thing treat it like a prison sentence or a vacation. You don't change unless you want to. The smart ones will toe the line with the hardest drill instructors but the second they're out..well. Its a losing battle.

Forced community service doesn't make a person want to do it anymore or even want to try very hard. Volunteers on the other hand are some of the hardest working community service people there are because they want to be there and they feel they're making a difference despite the conditions or the results.


A conscripted army is arguably more in touch with the population, and is probably less inclined to stray away from the interests of the people.

Sorry...what? Unless you use Israel you won't find a peacetime conscripted military or service thats had very good results. There is a darn good reason they aren't given live ammo when on guard duty (or a single mag which doesn't leave the pouch).

[LazerLordz]

You gotta give back to the society that raised you. There's nothing wrong with youth these days that community service wouldn't be able to fix.

[brainplay]

You gotta give back to the society that raised you. There's nothing wrong with youth these days that community service wouldn't be able to fix.

America isn't a socialist or communist society...yet. Society didn't raise me nor my neighbor nor anyone on my block. And frankly I'd be a bit worried about today's current society raising anyone right now.

So by your theory then the usual two years community service commonly handed out to young criminals instead of jail time is going to "fix" them as well?

[LaoSexMachine]

America isn't a socialist or communist society...yet. Society didn't raise me nor my neighbor nor anyone on my block. And frankly I'd be a bit worried about today's current society raising anyone right now.

So by your theory then the usual two years community service commonly handed out to young criminals instead of jail time is going to "fix" them as well?


Three effing months. Kids these days needs it. We might be a democracy but welfare and all other programs like it reeks of socialism then.

[helomech]

Maybe he favors the Israeli model where young people are required to give a sh*t about their country.

I'm still confused by the whole hippy liberal pacifist = Nazi stormtroopers thing going on.


I'm puzzled by this as well;I would make it minimum of 2 years to 4 years though-3 months is just a waste of time altogether

[WarriorMonk]

I'm puzzled by this as well

These days anyone with extreme fanatical views can be turned easily into your "Nazi Stormtrooper"

It's just that the ones you mentioned try to act more "holier-than-thou" than anyone else...

[I can't think of a name]

America isn't a socialist or communist society...yet. Society didn't raise me nor my neighbor nor anyone on my block. And frankly I'd be a bit worried about today's current society raising anyone right now.

So by your theory then the usual two years community service commonly handed out to young criminals instead of jail time is going to "fix" them as well?


Damn straight.

[Raven_gr]

I don't get this socialism crap. So Germany, Israel Greece, Turkey, to name a few are by your sayings socialist countries?

[Erik2a4]

Make it one year compulsory service in either the military, Peace Corps, federal employee, FEMA, etc.

Make completion of it a requirement in order to be eligible to vote.

Neither will happen, but I rather like the idea of one having a "vested interest" in their community.

[NavyTimes]

It's very interesting to see this debate. Are europeans (and the rest of the conscription club) inherently more patriotic than the yankees since we consider obligatory service for our homelands a natural thing?


Well, when I am in an Alley in Sadr City with My Squad, I would much rather have the Volunteer Manning the M2HB in the Support By Fire, than some scmendrick who doesnt care because he's annoyed that his life was interrupted and Hates "Lifers".

How about You? You willing to trust someone who doesnt want to be there with Your Life?

I served with 13 other privates on my FPC, and yes I trusted them and was very proud to be a part of that squadron. Hope that answers your question.

[sujithkochi]

Cant u guys spare 3 months of ur life for ur country?

I wud happily do that.

[XShipRider]

If the government "goes rogue" in this Zombie Movie theory of yours do you expect law enforcement, the military, retirees, etc all who already have their info on file to just mindlessly go along? Do you expect that our electoral process would put someone in office that would undermine and control all these people as well as the civilians ready to defend our way of life?

Joe Average isn't going through life anonymously. If he thinks he is, he's ignorant. Joe Average has SS card, drivers license, birth certificate, etc. He has benefits cards, records with utility companies, fire arm purchase records, etc. Joe Average is not off the grid by any means.

All a smart card does is makes record keeping more cost efficient. That's why the military does it and military personnel goes along with it. It makes sense. They already have the information.

"Zombie Movie theory?" Not sure what you mean. You're taking the word 'horribly' out of context apparently. Though the thought intrigues me... :)

National ID leads to abuse. Maybe not now but eventually. SS cards were never intended to be ID cards but certainly have become more than just "benefit" cards. Though they were never intended to be such, laws were passed to make them so. How long would it be before somebody came up with the idea of having to use your national ID to get an Internet account? Or is my tinfoil hat on crooked?

Idea - make the national ID card voluntary. I'm sure people would jump at the chance. Then again, it was brought up originally as one possibility to track compulsory service. There has to be a way to track said service. I guess they could just use your SS card.

P.S. Hot Lips brought up the "rogue" part, I enclosed in double quotes to indicate those weren't my words. A governmental agency doesn't have to "go rogue" to abuse records that are available to them.

[Connaught Ranger]

It's very interesting to see this debate. Are europeans (and the rest of the conscription club) inherently more patriotic than the yankees since we consider obligatory service for our homelands a natural thing?



I served with 13 other privates on my FPC, and yes I trusted them and was very proud to be a part of that squadron. Hope that answers your question.


I served over 21 years in the Irish Defence Forces and with the U.N., I like all others then and now volunteered to serve, we never had conscription (in WW2 the Republic of Ireland was a neutral, a lot of men were called up to serve in the L.D.F / Security Forces in that time.)

This thread has degenerated, since there are more posts with a military connection being made, where in fact there is no evidence of a military connection, involved in this proposal, its not even National Guard related, but CIVIL SERVICE related, as in a civilian doing his bit to help out in his country, no camo, no guns, period.

Connaught Ranger.

[LineDoggie]

It's very interesting to see this debate. Are europeans (and the rest of the conscription club) inherently more patriotic than the yankees since we consider obligatory service for our homelands a natural thing?



I served with 13 other privates on my FPC, and yes I trusted them and was very proud to be a part of that squadron. Hope that answers your question.

So you were on Offensive Operations not just gate guard then?

[LRPV]

F*ck em. Teenagers are annoying as hell. They should make them all do compulsory service with former Marine Drill Instructors as bosses.


I have a teenager...it's illegal to shoot them here...:-(

[Kaplanr]

Now, how would you go about ensuring everyone actually performs their compulsory service? Hmm... Maybe some sort of national ID card. Where have I heard this idea before?

National Voluntary DI program, that's how.

I love the hypocrasy though. If he said that the US was going to reinstitute the draft (by that we really mean conscription,) people might be against it, but there'd be no calls of facist, commie leftist Hussein anti-American conspiracy.

Oh, and in a time of 7% unemployment, what would be so wrong with a CCC modeled program?

[Umbro2914]

little random but the link dosent work... i wanted to read the whole thing. can you repost the link. thanks.

[LazerLordz]

America isn't a socialist or communist society...yet. Society didn't raise me nor my neighbor nor anyone on my block. And frankly I'd be a bit worried about today's current society raising anyone right now.

So by your theory then the usual two years community service commonly handed out to young criminals instead of jail time is going to "fix" them as well?

Hey, everyone needs to think higher and further, don't they.

Community service served by law-abiding citizens who have the ability to comprehend what it means to serve the larger good, not slap on the wrists given to young criminals who logically should be kept in detention until they have been rehabilitated.

[California Joe]

As CR and Hot Lips and a few others keep trying to point out, there has been absolutely NO mention that this has anything to do with the military in anyway. This is not draft cards and conscription. No one says you have to share a foxhole with a 16 year old goth kid. :roll: Tighten the f*ck up.

WTF is wrong with everyones reading comprehension in here lately?

Having our spoiled little brats do something for their country for a few months is somehow evil?

[Calanen]

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31851_Obama_Quietly_Revokes_His_Plan_for_a_Draft

It then got amended after it hit the news. The only thing I don't like is the new bureacracies it will set up.

[MichaelF]

Returning the (military portion of the) topic:

I'm fully in favor of a well thought out and efficient system of Universal Military and Defense Service (to include Civil Defense and Infrastructure support taks for those who, due to conscience, are not suitable for military service), formed around a core (~25% or so) of professional long-service personnel.

Pros:

For one, I think it's healthier for the Republic. It's harder, historically, to subvert a military made up of absolutely random individuals, versus the self-selecting group that volunteers. It can be done, but really only in systems in which the military was subverted from day one (such as the PLA, Wehrmacht, and Red Army).

Secondly, as our European (and Israeli) Friends can tell you, it gives quite a bit of strategic depth. That is, you can double the size of your force by recalling recently-deactivated personnel. You also have the establishment and infrastructure to massively increase intake and throughput (in terms of producing trained Soldiers from civilians) in times of war.

Thirdly (and perhaps most importantly), it allows the establishment and maintenance of forces much, much larger than can be supported with a Professional All-Volunteer military.

Cons:

12 or 24 months just isn't enough time to recoup on the investment in training and create a functional Soldier. By that time, they have just grasped the basics of their MOS (never mind the MOSs that have AIT of that duration). Terms of Service would have to be no less than 48 months (extended for MOSs with lengthy AIT periods). Especially with our commitments.

What do you pay the conscripts? Spending your years at 18-22 makng $10 a day is not going to go down real well with the kids. Much more, and you start cranking up the budget (as you already have to House, Feed, Clothe and provide Medical to every Soldier, Conscript or Volunteer. Not to mention survivor's benefits..) in a massive way.
You could probably circumvent this by mandating that any Conscript who completes his or her (yes, them too) Service gets a full tuition waiver from any Public University in his or her home State.

---------------------

There's two ways to do this:

Either have the whole Army and Marine structure manned by Conscripts led by long-service Professionals (the way we did it prior to 1973).

Or

Have a two-tier system, where most units are manned by Conscripts, led by Professionals....AND have a number of units (~25% of BCTs) manned by Professionals. Leadership in Professional units has to be preceded by successful leadership at the same level in a Conscript unit (IOW, to be a Platoon Sergeant or Platoon Leader in a Professional unit, you must have had a satisfactory run as PSG or PL in a Conscript unit).

-----------------
For those who opt for civil defense service, something like a larger version of the German THW could work, and be very valuable.

-----------------

As a system designed to get kids to plant flowers on the median or build playgrounds or houses for disadvantaged families.....I'm not sure it's that great an idea. That kind of classical cosmetic community service is more properly the domain of the various voluntary organizations.

If you are going to mandate Service, it needs to be Service in ways that are important on a macroscale. Rescue/Recovery, Military Service, hospital volunteers (Candy Stripers), etc. It has to be something that affects the doer as much as the recipient.


My $0.02

[MichaelF]

Well, when I am in an Alley in Sadr City with My Squad, I would much rather have the Volunteer Manning the M2HB in the Support By Fire, than some scmendrick who doesnt care because he's annoyed that his life was interrupted and Hates "Lifers".

You mean like the guys who fought the Kaiser, Hitler, Tojo and Kim I?

[Calanen]

That would be PATRIOTISM! ;-)

The USA has a Tradition of Free Will, and one of the reasons for the war of 1812 was Americans Being Pressganged into the RN, we dont particularly like the idea of People being Pressganged or Shanghaied in Involuntary "Voluntary" Service.

A True Volunteer typically works Better than someone being Forced


Call it a quirk

Not in respect of the military. The US has had the draft in:

- the Civil War (both Union and Confederacy);
- WW1
- WW2 (and prior to it from 1940)
- for the Korean War;
- the Vietnam War (ending in 1969 by Nixon)
- then selective service registration was reinstated since 1980. By the way, that includes all males within the United States between 18-26, not just US citizens. If you are a student in the USA, you must also register.

The one snag Obamamessiah may hit is this. If this is not a military draft, which is constitutional - it may fall foul of the prohibition against involuntary servitude in the thirteenth amendment. Unless of course he wants to pay people, but then its not really community service then, is it.

[Macs.]

Well, when I am in an Alley in Sadr City with My Squad, I would much rather have the Volunteer Manning the M2HB in the Support By Fire, than some scmendrick who doesnt care because he's annoyed that his life was interrupted and Hates "Lifers".

How about You? You willing to trust someone who doesnt want to be there with Your Life?

In most conscript countries those who really don't want to serve don't have to anyway.

Also in Germany for example a conscript is never gonna end up in Afghanistan or Congo or whatever if he doesn't agree with it since the conscription time is so limited that they won't get drafted for deployments unless they choose to do a longer time.

[LineDoggie]

Not in respect of the military. The US has had the draft in:

- the Civil War (both Union and Confederacy); Draft riots in 1863, and Conscripts amounted to 2% of the Union forces

- WW1
- WW2 (and prior to it from 1940)
- for the Korean War; And the Country was facing all out Global World War in the First Two.

- the Vietnam War (ending in 1969 by Nixon) Draft Riots and the Draft ended in 1973, not 1969

- then selective service registration was reinstated since 1980. By the way, that includes all males within the United States between 18-26, not just US citizens. If you are a student in the USA, you must also register. I know that well I had to register AFTER I served and was Getting Discharged.

I think you'll find most Military Professionals want nothing to do with the Draft anymore. The Last time the US Forces used them it wasnt a Happy Nurturing Experience was it?

[LineDoggie]

In most conscript countries those who really don't want to serve don't have to anyway.

Also in Germany for example a conscript is never gonna end up in Afghanistan or Congo or whatever if he doesn't agree with it since the conscription time is so limited that they won't get drafted for deployments unless they choose to do a longer time.

Not for Nothing But in Germany a Conscript doesnt even have to get his hair cut anymore:
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1435354.html

"German soldiers allowed to keep mullets

German soldiers will be allowed to sport mullets and ponytails after a court ruled army hair regulations were unconstitutional.

The ruling came after an 18-year-old soldier was locked up in a cell and fined £100 when he refused to chop off his 10-inch ponytail.

The teenaged recruit only agreed to let army barbers cut his hair when faced with three weeks in solitary confinement, but made a formal complaint at the same time.

The military court in Munich ruled in favour of the soldier and argued the varying rules for male and female recruits were "unconstitutional" and "incomprehensible".

It said forcing male soldiers to cut their long hair went against their rights as individuals."

So the Fighting in Afghanistan is left to The Professional German Soldiers for the most part, correct?

[szr]

Here's a hint for Obama,

Rather than a mandatory "Youth Corps" trained to do who-knows-what, how about facilitating training resouces to states that choose to add, as a prerequisite for high school graduation, earning of an American Red Cross CPR/Rescue Breathing certifcation. Maybe AED as well as they're becoming more common these days. If you start there, who knows, maybe First Aid class will be as common as algebra class in American secondary schools, someday.

[Calanen]

I think you'll find most Military Professionals want nothing to do with the Draft anymore. The Last time the US Forces used them it wasnt a Happy Nurturing Experience was it?

It wasnt really a history of 'free will' in terms of military service though as you had portrayed. The US history of service is intertwined with conscription, and many conscripts have done the service proud.

[Macs.]

Not for Nothing But in Germany a Conscript doesnt even have to get his hair cut anymore:
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1435354.html

What a moronic case.



So the Fighting in Afghanistan is left to The Professional German Soldiers for the most part, correct?

Of 3600 soldiers in Afgahnistan only around 70 are conscripts who opted for a longer service.

[XShipRider]

National Voluntary DI program, that's how.

I love the hypocrasy though. If he said that the US was going to reinstitute the draft (by that we really mean conscription,) people might be against it, but there'd be no calls of facist, commie leftist Hussein anti-American conspiracy.

Oh, and in a time of 7% unemployment, what would be so wrong with a CCC modeled program?

Uh, you missed my point. The national ID idea came about most recently as a possibility to tighten national security in the wake of 9/11 (that's where I'd heard it before). I'm not sure how serious the talk was, or if it was more of an Internet rumor (they have a way of growing legs these days). Regardless, the idea was not implemented.

I don't think I mentioned the draft in my post. Nor did I mention any "facist (sic), commie leftist Hussein" in my diatribe. That is, if it was directed at me.

[szr]

Heh, everyone's a big patriot, but when someone actualy proposes a way for everyone to help the community and country, everyone is on some "I have my rights! I don't have to do anything! I don't care about thos epeople i work hard for my money, I'm ahalalalalalalalalalala".

Hillarious.A great deal of the people who happen to post on this particular website have already put their money where their mouth was and given a great deal more than 3 months of their lives to this country. Straighten up and get a clue.

[Anthony91]

I don't see a problem with bringing back compulsory service for the Military at all. At the most, 3 years of active duty service with a few years in the reserves after that.

It would teach a lot of these little whiny brats I have to attend class with some discipline, respect, and be able to become a productive member of their communities and their country. Sometimes I just think about how f**ked we are when these idiots raise children and become our future leaders.

So yes, i'm all for compulsory service in the military, for all males aged 18-25.

[Horse Thief]

A great deal of the people who happen to post on this particular website have already put their money where their mouth was and given a great deal more than 3 months of their lives to this country. Straighten up and get a clue.

Then what's the problem with helping out your community? Is it a "commie" thing to do?

I find it hillarious the way most people in America fear certain words, cuz they're "scary". They end careers just like that or cause nationwide uproars. "Racism, communism, socialism, Nazi, facism, nationalism" etc.

Nobody even asks "is this a good idea", they just hear a word like "socialist" then freak out like a dumbass redneck. Not speaking about anyone here, but other people I have seen.

It could be a great idea and help the nation but because it's associated with "socialism", OMFGZ RUN FOR THE FVCKIN HILLZ!!!

I heard someone say Obama wants to turn America into a country like Sweden or Norway. I laughed then I wondered, wait WTF, why are they saying it in a way as if to say Sweden or Norway is a horrible country. Scandanavian countries ranked as first and highest always for standards of living and least violence and etc. But people acted like they're ****holes when they heard that.

I dunno, just alot of stuff happening right now is idiotic.

[PaulDmitrios]

Maybe they're just trying to form some more useful organization out of their youthful supports like Noriega's Dignity Battalions :):

The Dignity Battalions were paramilitary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary) combatants under the Manuel Noriega (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega) Regime in Panama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama) in the 1980s to suppress dissent and terrorize the opposition. They carried out arrests, torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture) and murder of political opponents, and were disbanded after the U.S. invasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Just_Cause) in 1989.
In the controversial presidential elections of May 1989, all of the political parties against Noriega banded behind a unified ticket of Guillermo Endara Galimany, along with vice presidential candidates Ricardo Arias-Calderon and Guillermo "Billy" Ford.[1] (http://sshl.ucsd.edu/collections/las/panama/1981.html) The Panamanian government decided to proceed with the election; Noriega's candidate lost by a large margin, too great for Noriega's intended rigging mechanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud) to sway the vote. Even Noriega's own troops, bussed around all day to vote repeatedly, often voted against him. Noriega canceled the election rather than display the results. Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter), there as an observer, denounced Noriega, saying the election had been "stolen". (Noriega advocates[who? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words)] complained that the elections had already been tampered with when the United States backed Noriega's opposition by funding their campaign) Bishop Marcos McGrath did as well. Amid the outcry, Noriega unleashed his Dignity Battalions to suppress demonstrations. In an image caught on video and played out in news sources around the world, they attacked Billy Ford's car. Ford's bodyguards were shot and killed. Covered in blood from the bodyguards, Billy Ford attempted to flee as one member of the Dignity Battalions pummeled him repeatedly with a metal pipe. This image brought worldwide attention to Noriega's regime. The other two political candidates were also severely beaten.
The leader of the battalions, appointed by Noriega, was Benjamin Colamarco, current Minister of Public Works (2006) under President Martín Torrijos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mart%C3%ADn_Torrijos)' administration.

[szr]

Then what's the problem with helping out your community? Is it a "commie" thing to do?I trust you'll be the first person to volunteer for compulsory service? Oh, that's right, you don't volunteer for compulsory service. It's compulsory.

By the way, in the United States there is a constitutional prohibition of involuntary servitude (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiii.html).

[Horse Thief]

I trust you'll be the first person to volunteer for compulsory service? Oh, that's right, you don't volunteer for compulsory service. It's compulsory.

By the way, in the United States there is a constitutional prohibition of involuntary servitude (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiii.html).

Yes, I would be the first there and happy to do whatever I'm able.

[LineDoggie]

Off Original Topic I Know, but this needs answering.

How much would Draftees be paid now? Considering that an E-2 Base Pay is now $1509.90USD per month @ $18,118.00 a Year times say 300,000 Men, thats $5,435,400,000.00 USD just for Base Pay, not including subsistance allowances, Bonuses, Proficiency Pay, etc.

Or do we give a Draftee Less than the Volunteer?

Where are these men to be Housed, Trained, Equipped?

Where do the Training Cadremen, Weapons & ammo come from?

Where do we have the resources to train them anymore?

In 1972 Army Basic Training was conducted @

Benning
Polk
Leonard Wood
Ord
Hood
Sill
Jackson
Dix
Devens
Knox

And several others I left out. Of those listed Only Benning, Sill, Jackson, Leonard Wood still do Basic

[szr]

Yes, I would be the first there and happy to do whatever I'm able.Nobody's stopping you from volunteering somewhere, right this very second. Go for it.

[LineDoggie]

Maybe they're just trying to form some more useful organization out of their youthful supports like Noriega's Dignity Battalions :):

The Dignity Battalions were paramilitary combatants under the Manuel Noriega Regime in Panama in the 1980s to suppress dissent and terrorize the opposition. They carried out arrests, torture and murder of political opponents, and were disbanded after the U.S. invasion in 1989.



Jeez, I forgot about the "Dingbats" those Red T shirts were so Useful werent they?

[LineDoggie]

Yes, I would be the first there and happy to do whatever I'm able.


So I take it Your serving now then?

[California Joe]

My kids are already required to have a "Capstone Project" to graduate high school. They need to put in time and effort to bettering the school and community. I don't have a problem with it. I welcome it.

F*ck me, what is wrong with you people? There is no mention of the military at all in this proposal. The stuff Calanen just posted is a good idea. But you just want to keep arguing over things that are not even proposed. I have a hard time believing that if this was proposed by John McCain there'd be this much obtuse bullsh*t.

Maybe you could make a few more bizarre Hitler Youth referrences before I ban you for stupidity.

[Horse Thief]

Nobody's stopping you from volunteering somewhere, right this very second. Go for it.

How do you know I haven't?


My kids are already required to have a "Capstone Project" to graduate high school. They need to put in time and effort to bettering the school and community. I don't have a problem with it. I welcome it.

F*ck me, what is wrong with you people? There is no mention of the military at all in this proposal. The stuff Calanen just posted is a good idea. But you just want to keep arguing over things that are not even proposed. I have a hard time believing that if this was proposed by John McCain there'd be this much obtuse bullsh*t.

Maybe you could make a few more bizarre Hitler Youth referrences before I ban you for stupidity.


Holla^

[szr]

How do you know I haven't?How do I know you have?

[Horse Thief]

How do I know you have?

Lol You don't it's the net. But this is all irrelevant, the point is I think it's a good idea just like the guy above me and others. Are we stupid for it?