Was Pearl Harbor a conspiracy?

[Secret Squirrel]

I was just wondering how many people believe that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy (ie. the U.S knew and allowed it to happen) or not. You dont have to post why you think whether it was or wasnt.

[Obergefreiter]

I think the U.S. entry into the war was inevitable. I do not think FDR would allow this to happen.

[Sir Zach of R.]

I was just wondering how many people believe that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy (ie. the U.S knew and allowed it to happen) or not. You dont have to post why you think whether it was or wasnt.

I hope you are f*cking kidding. :bash:

[Secret Squirrel]

I was just wondering how many people believe that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy (ie. the U.S knew and allowed it to happen) or not. You dont have to post why you think whether it was or wasnt.

I hope you are f*cking kidding. :bash:

Nope I wasnt kidding, I was actually asking people's opinion on the matter. There was a discussion concerning the supposed conspiracy in another thread so I started this thread to avoid hi-jacking the other one.

[Vance]

I think maybe Eisenhower may have let it happen so that we could go to war - before Britain and Russia fell.

[Obergefreiter]

Eisenhower was not Supreme Allied Commander at the time. No one even really knew who he was. This was not his command anyway.

Patton on the other hand would have but again, did not have the power to do so.

[Tengu]

NO SIR.

But if i knew i was going to be attacked there, i would have let it happen so i would have the public opinion on my side to go to war.

[chauncy republicans]

I was just wondering how many people believe that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy (ie. the U.S knew and allowed it to happen) or not. You dont have to post why you think whether it was or wasnt.
Historians have proven that there was of some sort.
To all those that voted no, you should start watching the History channel, then maybe you can graduate to reading books, if it's not too hard, and then you can actually try to educate yourselfs.

[HavocIRL]

But if they knew about the attack would they not have defended the harbour anyway? Even without the devastating casualties the mere attack itself would have gotten most people on the war bandwagon. I don't think the president or the military chiefs would have allowed to have their position compromised so much by the attack, I mean most of the pacific fleet were wiped out in the attack.

[Obergefreiter]

Historians have proven that there was of some sort.
[u]To all those that voted no, you should start watching the History channel[/u .

rofl rofl rofl rofl

If you think they have a good view of histroy you need to get out and read some books.

They are good for repetative film footage of battles that are not the one they are talking about, that is about it. Remember, the channel is owned by the far left Discovery Channel. The History Channel is entertainment, nota teaching tool.

[chauncy republicans]

Historians have proven that there was of some sort.
[u]To all those that voted no, you should start watching the History channel[/u .

rofl rofl rofl rofl

If you think they have a good view of histroy you need to get out and read some books.

They are good for repetative film footage of battles that are not the one they are talking about, that is about it. Remember, the channel is owned by the far left Discovery Channel. The History Channel is entertainment, nota teaching tool.
Thats why I typed that :cantbeli: amatuers like you are too lazy to uncover facts, the least you could do is watch the HIstory Channel so you at least have some kind of clue as to what went on. Personally I read a lot, obviously more than you...

[chauncy republicans]

To all those that voted no, you should start watching the History channel, then maybe you can graduate to reading books, if it's not too hard, and then you can actually try to educate yourselfs.
Notice what I typed after "start watching the History Channel" who are you to talk about reading? Either you didnt finish reading my whole post or you are to ignorant t o comprehend what I just typed. :cantbeli:

[Obergefreiter]

I have 300+ books read on WWII with about another 80 on the shelves not read.

How many do you have lightweight? :P

I did not catch your point about the History Channel. I see now that we agree that it is crap.


Note to self: In the fututre, get some sleep before typing.

[Secret Squirrel]

I was just wondering how many people believe that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy (ie. the U.S knew and allowed it to happen) or not. You dont have to post why you think whether it was or wasnt.
Historians have proven that there was of some sort.
To all those that voted no, you should start watching the History channel, then maybe you can graduate to reading books, if it's not too hard, and then you can actually try to educate yourselfs.

Maybe you could post some proof? There have been various attempts from "historians" in the past, with three examples popping up that were quickly shot down. Also, which historians are you talking about specifically?

[Obergefreiter]

I too would like some proof. Not to be a jerk, but I have a hard time believing this. There is alot of revisionist history out there that many do not know is revisionist.

I think FDR ruined the U.S., but do not think he would do something like this.

I would be willing to read your information without bias.

[droopy]

I will never ever discuss something like this on a forum it leeds to a Pool and more people arguing :oops:

[Secret Squirrel]

I will never ever discuss something like this on a forum it leeds to a Pool and more people arguing :oops:

But you've discussed it in another thread...or had you forgotten?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=324044&highlight=#324044

[droopy]

I will never ever discuss something like this on a forum it leeds to a Pool and more people arguing :oops:

But you've discussed it in another thread...or had you forgotten?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=324044&highlight=#324044
Yes this is what i was speaking about.

[the_spec]

From what I've read, the american government knew that the japanese were planning an attack and they also knew that pearl harbor was a possible target, from intercepted japanese messages. What the government did not do was to inform the Pearl Harbor base commander of this, instead they were informed of possible sabotage actions which is why the american planes were placed so close together and could be easily destroyed during the attack. Pearl Harbor was completely unprepared for an enemy attack when it hit them and a simple info from washington could have changed that. So to me it's obvious that they wanted something to happen down there.
And I can say again, meeting this attack would in no way have the same effect on the public as the suprise attack had. It would have meant war, but it wouldn't have rallied the public like that, 'cause after Pearl Harbor every american wanted revenge. Just like after the USS Maine everybody wanted to go to war with spain and just like 9-11 everybody wanted to wipe out afghanistan.
Another thing to mention is how many exciting photographs and video material we have of Pearl Harbor that day. It's 1941, but the coverage feels like 2004, strange huh?

[rob]

I have 300+ books read on WWII with about another 80 on the shelves not read.

How many do you have lightweight? :P

I did not catch your point about the History Channel. I see now that we agree that it is crap.


Note to self: In the fututre, get some sleep before typing.

just looking at the pictures doesnt count. :cantbeli:

[Obergefreiter]

I have 300+ books read on WWII with about another 80 on the shelves not read.

How many do you have lightweight? :P

I did not catch your point about the History Channel. I see now that we agree that it is crap.


Note to self: In the fututre, get some sleep before typing.

just looking at the pictures doesnt count. :cantbeli:

:D

I wish some had a few pictures. History books without pictures can get dull.

[droopy]

I saw a documentary on DIscovery Civilisation on Pearl HArbor and it said that the US knew about the attack and that it didn`t think it was going to happen at Pearl HArbor they thought that was going down in the Philipines !?

[Hav218]

Was Ruben winning American Idol one too?

[anonymous individual]

I highly doubt it if it was a conpsiracy.

[the_spec]

Conspiracy is the wrong word here.
I think we can all agree here that the US government knew that the direction they chose would lead the USA to war and they didn't mind the slightest. The government was ready before Pearl Harbor, but after Pearl Harbor, the public was ready and that's what this is all about, PH's significance.

[Obergefreiter]

I have heard the idea that the U.S. ecpected an attack on its colonial territories. The Philipines was the best guess.

This, to me, seams like an obviouis and clear target. I would not doubt for a moment that the U.S. Governemnt had and idea that the Philipines would be attacked. It would have been foolish for the Japanese not to do so from a strategic standpoint

[five-five-sixer]

Hmm... I've heard a particular conspiracy theory on Pearl Harbor attack. It says that the British destroyed a Dutch submarine - which had discovered the Japanese fleet on its way to Hawaii - in order to force US into the war.
A man called Christopher Creighton claims to have engineered its sinking. He appeared in a Dutch TV programme in 1980 annoymously to say that. He mentions it in his books "OP JB" and "Paladin" Any1 heard about this man?

[Black Dots]

I honestly have no idea. There is some circumstantial evidence to indicate a conspiracy (Marshall withholding the intercepted notice from Tokyo to the Japanese consulate in Hawaii that the attack was coming, the fact that the three fleet carriers stationed at Pearl Harbor had left shortly before the attack, etc.). I think it’s plausible, but who knows?

Here’s a link to some more info about this:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/trask1.html

[Secret Squirrel]

I honestly have no idea. There is some circumstantial evidence to indicate a conspiracy (Marshall withholding the intercepted notice from Tokyo to the Japanese consulate in Hawaii that the attack was coming, the fact that the three fleet carriers stationed at Pearl Harbor had left shortly before the attack, etc.). I think it’s plausible, but who knows?

Here’s a link to some more info about this:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/trask1.html

In 2000, Robert Stinnett published Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor, which uses the fact that American intelligence did seem to intercept Japanese messages not far from Hawaii. But as reviewers noted, Stinnett never demonstrated that those intercepts were fully understood or even relayed to the highest levels. Like many conspiracy theorists, he attributed to high-level plotting what was in fact something far more common: human error.

Enterprise and Lexington were out of port on Dec. 7th under orders of Adm. Kimmel, not anyone in Washington D.C. Enterprise would have made it back into port on Dec. 5th if the weather hadn't delayed her. No human being prevented her from being there on the 7th. It was widely known that she was scheduled to be there on that date. After the start of hostilities both carriers were directed to locate and engage the enemy, despite facing unknown odds. It cannot be said, then that the carriers were "safely out of port" if they are just going to be sent to look for trouble when the shooting starts.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/index.html

[Black Dots]

Word. Again, I haven't really looked into it.

[1071]

It was intel. operation "SNOW" INO NKVD (pre KGB)
it's truth...

[khukuri]

Hmm... I've heard a particular conspiracy theory on Pearl Harbor attack. It says that the British destroyed a Dutch submarine - which had discovered the Japanese fleet on its way to Hawaii - in order to force US into the war.
A man called Christopher Creighton claims to have engineered its sinking. He appeared in a Dutch TV programme in 1980 annoymously to say that. He mentions it in his books "OP JB" and "Paladin" Any1 heard about this man?

ive heard that one too

But you never know cuz the book OP JB is full of ****. Alot of the things their are clearly made up, but experts do disagree on that point. Some of them say that the whole story is made up others say that parts mentioned did happen but not 100% the way the author describes it.

I beleive somewhere some part of the US system knew of an jap attack.
Some of you here say military others say washington. I think that they knew but didnt think It was going to be that big attack, like PH.

[Secret Squirrel]

Hmm... I've heard a particular conspiracy theory on Pearl Harbor attack. It says that the British destroyed a Dutch submarine - which had discovered the Japanese fleet on its way to Hawaii - in order to force US into the war.
A man called Christopher Creighton claims to have engineered its sinking. He appeared in a Dutch TV programme in 1980 annoymously to say that. He mentions it in his books "OP JB" and "Paladin" Any1 heard about this man?

ive heard that one too

But you never know cuz the book OP JB is full of ****. Alot of the things their are clearly made up, but experts do disagree on that point. Some of them say that the whole story is made up others say that parts mentioned did happen but not 100% the way the author describes it.

I beleive somewhere some part of the US system knew of an jap attack.
Some of you here say military others say washington. I think that they knew but didnt think It was going to be that big attack, like PH.

He claims attacking a sub, but not confirming a kill (ie. you confirm a sub kill generally by collecting pieces of the boat and body parts). Anyway, you can read the interview with Outerbridge here http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths/outerbr1.html

[khukuri]

Hmm the interview you link to is very interesting. Do you know anything about source and stuff, do you beleive it yourself? you things on the net.

Well the interesting part is that there is other names than Christopher Creighton that is mentioning what happend. Cuz ive only read it from Christopher Creighton and I dont beleive that guy.

I will read the interview now. thanks for the link

[2RHPZ]

The Pearl Harbor Strike Force

Great site (http://www.friesian.com/pearl.htm)

[cut]

I think there is a chance that the US knew in time that war had been declared but didn't have time to react. In which case the attack on Pearl harbour goes from being illegal to being a dirty trick. Other than that I don't think any conspiracy can justify a US president allowing that big an attack to happen.

[Caraway]

I don't know if anyone remembers...but a Japanese mini-sub's wreck was discovered a few years ago... Newspaper articles in Finland published some photos of it. Articles also stated that U.S. Navy was responsible for sinking it....just few hours before the strike on Pearl Harbour. I might be wrong, but that is what I remember reading. :|