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INAT
11-12-2008, 01:45 AM
According to the separatist "government" in Pristina, the German Government is paying millions in militarily equipment to transform the former UCK (Kosovo Liberation Army - KLA) terrorist group into a Kosovan army. German soldiers are providing "manned support" and the German Bundeswehr the military hardware. The new troops, operating under the name of the "Kosovo Security Force" (KSF), due to be operational by next June, are being recruited from the current "Kosovo Protection Corps" (KPC), the successor organization of the KLA. In the future, they can be deployed around the world within the framework of NATO interventions. Not only the future army of Kosovo, but even the secessionist government's new "minister of defense" Fehmi Mujota have their roots in KLA tradition. The current "prime minister" was once the militia's political leader and other current top politicians in Pristina had also been active in the KLA. Charges of serious war and postwar crimes raised against them have remain unsettled. Berlin is broadening its cooperation with these former militiamen and beginning to arm them - in strict accordance with NATO standards.
Voluminous
As a first step, the German government has earmarked seven million Euros for the creation of the "Kosovo Security Force" (KSF). This was reported by the Kosovan "government" following negotiations in Pristina with the German Defense Minister Franz-Josef Jung. Jung had visited the Bundeswehr troops stationed in Kosovo at the beginning of the week and also held talks with the "Prime Minister" and the "Minister of Defense". As announced by the German Defense Ministry, the Bundeswehr is also providing "manned support" - with 15 soldiers, for the time being. Ultimately Berlin will also be participating in equipping the KSF with military hardware. The planned delivery is rated as voluminous by the Defense Ministry.[1]

Abroad
Officially the KSF is at first supposed to be only engaged in "crisis management," "civil defense" and disposal of ordinance. Later it is supposed to take on more extensive tasks, that generally fall within the realm of army duties.[2] This is also written into the "constitution" of the Kosovan secessionist regime, which states in Article 126 that the KSF "shall protect the people and Communities of the Republic of Kosovo."[3] It further states that the KSF "may send its members abroad" - an indication of future foreign interventions of the Kosovan army. Against this background, it is significant that it is under the auspices of the NATO that the KSF is being built up, trained and armed - with light weapons, for the time being - but in accordance with NATO standards.[4] Other NATO states, participating with Germany in these measures include the United States, France and Great Britain. Countries not taking part are Slovakia, Rumania and Spain, who have refused to recognize Kosovo's secession. The KSF is supposed to be operational by June 2009.

Nucleus
The KSF will initially be a force of over 2,500 with 800 reservists. The personnel is mainly taken from the 5,000 man strong "Kosovo Protection Corps" (KPC), which is to be officially disbanded by December 10. It is a direct successor of the former KLA terror troops. Having served NATO as terrain cognizant ground forces during its aggression against Yugoslavia, the KLA, was only formally disbanded after the war, but transformed in fact into the KPC militia. Though officially classified as a "civilian emergency management organization," it perceives itself to be the nucleus of a Kosovan army in the making. Accordingly KFOR soldiers complained that the members of the KPC, in violation of their official assignment, were going around heavily armed in public. One was not supposed to interfere, it was said; the NATO lets them do it. In fact KPC members and KFOR troops - including Germans - were carrying out common training maneuvers. The Bundeswehr was equipping the KPC, for example with German military ambulances. Already in the spring of 2007, while officially, the status of Kosovo was still being "negotiated", the KPC spokesman announced that the transformation of his forces into a regular army had already begun.

Warrant
The types of personnel that went from the KLA to the KPC, with some now being taken on as members of the KSF, can be judged from examples of some prominent individual militiamen. Agim Çeku was very significant for the KPC. He had fought against Belgrade already in the first half of the 1990s - in the newly created Croatian army - to then join the KLA at the beginning of 1999. During the war, he rose to the rank of the highest military commander. The war crimes charges leading to an arrest warrant against him in Serbia date from this period. Through several direct interventions, the West has thwarted court proceedings against him. Instead, already in 1999, Çeku became the first leader of the KPC, and always maintained close cooperation with KFOR. In March 2006, he rose to the office of "Prime Minister" in Pristina.

Hit Man
In the mid 90s, Çeku's successor Hashim Thaçi was one of the KLA's main organizers and was considered its political leader. First sentenced to several years of imprisonment in 1997 for various acts of terrorism, he was again placed on the wanted list in 1999 because of several other terrorist attacks. "After one year of KLA-leadership, Thaçi was in control of an extensive network of gunrunners, trained hit men, soldiers and former criminals," wrote a prominent expert on Yugoslavia at the time.[5] Unlike other KLA members, Thaçi did not join the KPC, but launched a political carrier - in spite of the fact that the German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) suspected him of close ties to organized crime.[6] But most likely his name will not be mentioned in the next edition of the European Commission's annual Kosovo Report, due in November. It will be focused on organized crime in Kosovo.[7]

High Positions
The Pristina secessionist regime's new „Defense Minister", charged with the transformation of the KPC into the KSF, came not only from the same party as the "Prime Minster", but also like Thaçi from the KLA. He is also had charges raised against him. The same goes for Thaçi's "right hand" man, Fatmir Limaj, former KLA commander and current "Transportation Minister", who was miraculously acquitted in The Hague. Jakup Krasniqi also fought on the side of the KLA during the war - as its spokesman. Today he serves as Pristina's "Parliamentary President", while his former comrades make up the hard core of the new Kosovan army.

Noble
Quite noble terms are being applied to describe the legal status of Germany's support for the KSF. KFOR is assuming the "responsibility" for "the establishment and the training of the future 'Kosovo Security Forces' (KSF)," announced Defense Minister Jung at the Central Conference of the German Military Attachés last Mai.[8] This is more than merely another violation of international law. After all, the KSF will be an illegal military arm of the illegal secessionist regime in Pristina. That this is being organized through the KFOR is also an affront, because even though the UN Security Council legitimized KFOR's presence in Kosovo, it explicitly did not recognize its secession. The aid furnished by KFOR personnel to train and arm the KFS is one of the West's innumerable violations of international law in Kosovo - and it will surely not be the last.[9]
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56198

Herman the II
11-12-2008, 02:02 AM
Seven million Euros? Not exactly much if your target is a NATO compatible army. They are supporting the local Security Force with basic equipment so one day they are able to control their country on their own. I honestly cant see how they are building an "army".

tyovan
11-12-2008, 09:20 AM
Reading about their military performance in the Kosovo war, I wouldn't put any faith on them in any international operations.. unless they need a force to destroy churches after a war..

Mundzos
11-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Reading about their military performance in the Kosovo war, I wouldn't put any faith on them in any international operations.. unless they need a force to destroy churches after a war..


Don't be to quick to jump to conclusions about someone's ability to fight...After reading about Russian army performance in Chechen Wars you could say the same about mighty Russia...

tluassa
11-12-2008, 01:07 PM
"Information on German Foreign Policy" (german-foreign-policy.com) is compiled by a group of independent journalists and social scientists who observe, on an ongoing basis, Germany's renewed attempts to regain great power status in the economic, military and political arena.

The daily news, interviews and background information should be read against the background of the formative tendencies of German history. For this purpose, the column "History" provides extensive analyses.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

One should keep that in mind - the authors of this site are leftist - highly critical of any German Government action - and have an isolationist attitude after all.

Just look at the questions they ask and the terminology, they are not even able to hide their political agenda ... the effords to appear objective have utterly failed :)

http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56095

Dukagjin
11-12-2008, 01:14 PM
Reading about their military performance in the Kosovo war, I wouldn't put any faith on them in any international operations.. unless they need a force to destroy churches after a war..

ask the serbian army about "pakao koshare" , they´ll tell you about the military performance of kla.
the serbs had it easy in kosovo , bosnia and croatia fightin against mostly unarmed villagers , but now its another situation , albanians are well known for their fightin skills like the chechens in kavkazia !
im sure that germany, britain and the united states will support a strong kosovar army with military equipment

Mate
11-12-2008, 02:29 PM
Seven million Euros? Not exactly much if your target is a NATO compatible army. They are supporting the local Security Force with basic equipment so one day they are able to control their country on their own. I honestly cant see how they are building an "army".
Your`e right ......but it`s only the begining,so Germany IS helping with donations ,we expect in the future the Security Force to be larger to meet NATO standards......but I think it`s enough for now.
Thanks to all the states that are supporting the new Kosovar Security Force.
I think Serbia would not feel threatened by our force......I think it will bring more balance in the region.

Stefan850
11-12-2008, 03:55 PM
ask the serbian army about "pakao koshare" , they´ll tell you about the military performance of kla.
the serbs had it easy in kosovo , bosnia and croatia fightin against mostly unarmed villagers , but now its another situation , albanians are well known for their fightin skills like the chechens in kavkazia !
im sure that germany, britain and the united states will support a strong kosovar army with military equipment


Guys, you won, you have US and NATO on your side, be happy, enjoy, you pushed us out totally. But dont talk like you are some kind of Conan like warriors because you are not, and it only makes you look childish when you talk like that and end sentences with exclamation mark.

BW2
11-12-2008, 05:13 PM
the serbs had it easy in kosovo , bosnia and croatia fightin against mostly unarmed villagersYour an idiot


albanians are well known for their fightin skills like the chechens in kavkazia ! You truly are made for each other... terrorists of the world unite!

INAT
11-12-2008, 09:49 PM
"Information on German Foreign Policy" (german-foreign-policy.com) is compiled by a group of independent journalists and social scientists who observe, on an ongoing basis, Germany's renewed attempts to regain great power status in the economic, military and political arena.

The daily news, interviews and background information should be read against the background of the formative tendencies of German history. For this purpose, the column "History" provides extensive analyses.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

One should keep that in mind - the authors of this site are leftist - highly critical of any German Government action - and have an isolationist attitude after all.

Just look at the questions they ask and the terminology, they are not even able to hide their political agenda ... the effords to appear objective have utterly failed :)

http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56095


So you see no problem with what Germany is doing?

Given the history of German involvement in the region,
this is not a democratic action. This is clearly a destabilizing move
that harms relations between Serbia and Germany.

-BlackZodiac-
11-12-2008, 09:56 PM
albanians are well known for their fightin skills like the chechens in kavkazia !

What? Spray & pray, then hide in the civilian population? :roll:

Herman the II
11-13-2008, 03:59 AM
So you see no problem with what Germany is doing?

Given the history of German involvement in the region,
this is not a democratic action. This is clearly a destabilizing move
that harms relations between Serbia and Germany.


Whats wrong with supporting the local security force with money and training? Hopefully the Kosovars will be able to control their territory on their own someday.
The better the police and security force is trained and geared the sooner Kosovo will turn into a stable country. Cant see how that is a destabilizing move, quite the opposite. Why do you think its undemocratic? I honestly don't think that a majority in Germany or Kosovo is opposing the mentioned actions.

INAT
11-13-2008, 04:26 AM
Whats wrong with supporting the local security force with money and training? Hopefully the Kosovars will be able to control their territory on their own someday.
The better the police and security force is trained and geared the sooner Kosovo will turn into a stable country. Cant see how that is a destabilizing move, quite the opposite. Why do you think its undemocratic? I honestly don't think that a majority in Germany or Kosovo is opposing the mentioned actions.


Where should I begin? below are the details.Lets see Germany sponsored the KLA terrorist group,then German planes under NATO bombed Serbia, then occupied part of her territory,thenallowed ethnic cleansing of Serbs, then took away Kosovo-Metohija and now are cementing their actions.
You do see why that is undemocratic?

Since the early 1990s, Bonn and Washington have joined hands in establishing their respective spheres of influence in the Balkans. Their intelligence agencies have also collaborated. According to intelligence analyst John Whitley, covert support to the Kosovo rebel army was established as a joint endeavor between the CIA and Germany's Bundes Nachrichten Dienst (BND) -- which previously played a key role in installing a right wing nationalist government under Franjo Tudjman in Croatia. The task to create and finance the KLA was initially given to Germany: "They used German uniforms, East German weapons and were financed, in part, with drug money." According to Whitley, the CIA was, subsequently instrumental in training and equipping the KLA in Albania.
The covert activities of Germany's BND were consistent with Bonn's intent to expand its "Lebensraum" into the Balkans. Prior to the onset of the civil war in Bosnia, Germany and its Foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher had actively supported secession; it had "forced the pace of international diplomacy" and pressured its Western allies to recognize Slovenia and Croatia. According to the Geopolitical Drug Watch, both Germany and the U.S. favored (although not officially) the formation of a "Greater Albania" encompassing Albania, Kosovo and parts of Macedonia.
http://www.cpa.org.au/garchive/954kla.htm

Serbs are not indians willing to trade their land for smallpox-laden blankets and a few bottles of liquor. As the indians discovered to their great
misfortune, the U.S. government cannot be trusted to keep promises, and a promise was made not to divide Serbia. The true motives behind the war
on Serbia and Kosovo independence are buried in plausible excuses to pacify our taxpayers. What you could know, if you care to read about it, is that a
former NATO commander in the Balkans said NATO, and America, helped the wrong side in the Serb war.
The latest conspirators to negligently stumble into a future Balkan war are the United States and the European Union, which have rushed in to
recognize what Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica rightly calls the "fake state of Kosovo." Why is it a fake state? Because there are no
Kosovars, only Serbs and Albanians. Each group seeks to unite Kosovo with its homeland, historic Serbia or Greater Albania. An independent Kosovo
has the half-life of a sub-atomic particle.
The action of the U.S. and the EU in stripping Serbia of Serbs' historic homeland is both a crime and a blunder. It is a crime, first, because the EU, NATO,
and the UN, have no legal right to either create, dismember, or partition a sovereign state, and second, because the narrative used to justify
the illegal action is a lie. The stated justification is that the Serbs, under Slobodan Milosevic, were ethnically cleansing Kosovo of Albanians. As German
courts have established, there was no ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo until NATO started bombing Serbia. After NATO launched its
unprovoked attack on Serbia (Mrs. Albright's splendid little war), the Serbs dumped the Albanians on NATO's doorstep as a vast logistics sponge.
That wasn't terribly nice, but when you are a very small country fighting all of NATO, you do what you can. Ironically, after Serbia was forced to capitulate when Russia withdrew her support, NATO blithely presided over the ethnic cleansing of two-thirds of Kosovo's Serbs by the Albanians.
As your neighbors cannot legally agree to give away half of your land without your consent, the EU, NATO, and the UN have no ownership interest to
give away part of Serbia without its consent. The UN has no right of eminent domain, nor could it have such a right, because the UN is not a sovereign
nation. Under international law, the unlawful dismemberment of a nation could be a crime of genocide - the intentional dismemberment of a sovereign state resulting in relocation of a portion of its population, and under the rules established at Nuremburg, leaders of organizations participating in this crime could be prosecuted. Serbia will never accept the wholesale alienation of one of her provinces. Like France after 1871, her whole policy will focus on recovering her lost territory as soon as the moment is ripe.
Unchosen, mandatory obligations are state slavery, which should be obvious because the obligations are not chosen. In claiming or bestowing
unchosen positive obligations onto other people, it is the demanding authorities who must face a burden of proof. The organization which claims that
others have unchosen positive obligations to them is the one who must prove that others owe some kind of duty to them. In the absence of any
objectively definable duty previously owed, the claim is false and fraudulent. To claim an abstract positive right to the labor of others, or to their land, is
to claim authority over them by definition. Yet the UN, NATO, and the EU have no legal authority over Serbia. Someone who must fulfill unchosen positive obligations is engaging in involuntary servitude. Involuntary servitude is slavery and slavery is undemocratic. Forcing Serbia's government, at gunpoint, to participate in the loss of her territory is as undemocratic as armed robbery and a horrible precedent for the future.


http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=12430

You asked.

finnishcpl
11-13-2008, 04:32 AM
It's going to be a long way before KSF will be able to participate in international operations (or even function locally). Even though most of the recruits are coming from the KPC, the KPC was never a "real army" and neither was the KLA. So they'll have to pretty much start from scratch here. A position in the KPC doesn't guarantee a position in the KSF and that goes for everyone even the higher ranking officers. Also officers won't get the same positions in the KSF just because they had them in the KPC.

Herman the II
11-13-2008, 04:51 AM
Where should I begin? below are the details.Lets see Germany sponsored the KLA terrorist group,then German planes under NATO bombed Serbia, then occupied part of her territory,thenallowed ethnic cleansing of Serbs, then took away Kosovo-Metohija and now are cementing their actions.
You do see why that is undemocratic?



Please, not that "Serbia is the virgin victim" again...
Everybody here knows how the Balkan wars developed and which country lost in the end. You may find that unfair or unjust but history is already written. What do you suggest? Kosovo back to Serbia?:roll:
The only way forward is a stable and independent Kosovo, that will only happen with a functioning security force. Cant see how that is destabilizing or undemocratic. I you find the fact that the loosing party in a military conflict cant accomplish its goals afterwards "undemocratic" then...


Btw.:
The article you posted is unfortunately 100% crap...

The covert activities of Germany's BND were consistent with Bonn's intent to expand its "Lebensraum" into the Balkans

Ja sure, let our Panzers roll..

INAT
11-13-2008, 05:30 AM
Please, not that "Serbia is the virgin victim" again...
Everybody here knows how the Balkan wars developed and which country lost in the end. You may find that unfair or unjust but history is already written. What do you suggest? Kosovo back to Serbia?:roll:
The only way forward is a stable and independent Kosovo, that will only happen with a functioning security force. Cant see how that is destabilizing or undemocratic. I you find the fact that the loosing party in a military conflict cant accomplish its goals afterwards "undemocratic" then...


Yes I do suggest at least followng Res 1244 which has been completly ignorned.Yeah how crazy the cradle of Serbian culture to be given back to Serbia.

No most people do not know the facts, they know propaganda and lies they were told. I EVERY side including your country under NATO committed crimes in the last 17-18 years in the Balkans .Every side was
Allowed to carve out a state. The difference was that every side was a traditional ally of Germany except Serbia. Germany as the
Strongest EU state has realized her goal in the Balkans and Serbia, stood in the way of Germany but now she has been neutralized. It is too bad but we are defeated and might make right.

It is difficult for Serbs to see this as somehow divorced from the rest of German histroy in regards to Serbia and the Balkans.Can you at least see that?

I realize we are going to see things from a different perspective, so let us just agree to disagree.

Herman the II
11-13-2008, 05:37 AM
It is difficult for Serbs to see this as somehow divorced from the rest of German histroy in regards to Serbia and the Balkans.Can you at least see that?

I realize we are going to see things from a different perspective, so let us just agree to disagree.

As I have said before, I can understand some of the feelings the Serbs currently have towards EU/Germany. Unfortunately I have the impression that most Serbs aren't sorry for the war, they are just sorry that they have lost. In the end, let us agree to disagree..

Stefan850
11-13-2008, 04:19 PM
Unfortunately I have the impression that most Serbs aren't sorry for the war, they are just sorry that they have lost. In the end, let us agree to disagree..

I am sorry that it had to come to war, and I am sorry that we lost, why shouldnt I be sorry that we lost? My people suffered because of that.

epictetus
11-13-2008, 04:31 PM
Where should I begin? below are the details.Lets see Germany sponsored the KLA terrorist group,then German planes under NATO bombed Serbia, then occupied part of her territory,thenallowed ethnic cleansing of Serbs, then took away Kosovo-Metohija and now are cementing their actions.
You do see why that is undemocratic?


http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=12430

You asked.

Somehow you had a different attitude to Germany in 1913.