EU plans a power supergrid to protect from Russian energy blackmail [Archive]

Lazarou

11-13-2008, 05:20 AM

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2765/mapgm8.jpg

Power supergrid plan to protect Europe from Russian threat to choke off energy

A supergrid of power supplies to protect Europe’s energy from the threat of a Russian stranglehold will be announced today.

The building blocks of the proposed supergrid would be new cables linking North Sea wind farms, and a network patching together the disparate electricity grids of the Baltic region and the countries bordering the Mediterranean, according to a blueprint drawn up by the European Commission and seen by The Times.
Full article: link (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article5142622.ece)

philbob

11-13-2008, 05:39 AM

intresting

tea drinker

11-13-2008, 07:47 AM

We should have diverse supplies - any country or company would take advantage of a monopoly situation, it's good business practice. I think Russia has a bad name as energy supplier due to dispute with Ukraine, who didn't want to pay market rate for gas - rather the old commie buddy rate. Ukraine is equally unreliable a transit country as Russia is supplier.

Renewables will take off - still a huge amount of wave / tidal and wind power to be exploited all over western europe. The oil price collapse will likely hamper this development.

CMNot

11-13-2008, 09:08 AM

The oil price collapse will likely hamper this development.

True, although it should serve as a stark warning from history for us.

Fiber

11-13-2008, 09:09 AM

As a Norwegian - I approve the plan!

Breakfast in Vegas

11-13-2008, 09:11 AM

Renewables will take off - still a huge amount of wave / tidal and wind power to be exploited all over western europe. The oil price collapse will likely hamper this development.That is exactly why I think we can expect oil prices to stay low. Of course oil-producing nations profit from high prices (oil companies even more), however neither the producers or the oil companies have any fun if people turn away from oil and develop alternative energy.

It should be entertaining... and yes, the EU should develop a backup plan should their energy suppliers turn unreliable or too expensive.

daily666

11-13-2008, 12:06 PM

Well as a Polish I approve this plan too.

After second thought Germany and France will kill it anyway.

Herman the II

11-13-2008, 12:11 PM

Why would we kill it? Germany always underlined how important a common energy politic for the EU is.

Karry

11-13-2008, 12:24 PM

EU plans a power supergrid to protect from Russian energy blackmail
Wait, wasnt it the other way around ? Wasnt EU blackmailing Russia into signing their Energy Charter which was the same as robbing Russia blind, while EU wouldnt give anything in return ? I dont remember Russia blackmailing EU with energy, though.

daily666

11-13-2008, 12:24 PM

Why would we kill it? Germany always underlined how important a common energy politic for the EU is.

Germans (Ruhrgas IIRC) invested quite a lot in the Nord Stream. This British project would make Nord Stream less profitable (if it ever was but that's a different thing). Angie's govt. would propably support this idea but the Schroeder's (who's a Nord Stream's Supervisory Board Director) fanboys will not agree.

Wait, wasnt it the other way around ? Wasnt EU blackmailing Russia into signing their Energy Charter which was the same as robbing Russia blind, while EU wouldnt give anything in return ? I dont remember Russia blackmailing EU with energy, though.

Because Russia never did that (to EU it did cut off Belarus and Ukraine). The plan is in case it ever tries to.

Herman the II

11-13-2008, 12:54 PM

I don't believe that the powergrid will reduce the profits of Nord Stream, it doesn't include other pipeline toward Russia.
Our government always said that the pipeline will strengthen the energy security for whole Europe, be it Schröder or Merkel. The power grid only supports that, if one of the old pipelines is blocked for whatever reason the powergrid can distribute energy gained from the North Stream gas. Additionally the existing pipeline system can transport the North Stream gas towards Poland(e.g.).
Sounds good for me...

Btw: The German company is EON together with one from the Netherlands.

xav

11-13-2008, 01:02 PM

Well as a Polish I approve this plan too.

After second thought Germany and France will kill it anyway.

Lol typically polish... they just joined and they think they can impose their own rules and ways.

Germany and France are FOUNDING members. Live with it. (Or get out of EU if you are not happy about it)

Magnus18

11-13-2008, 01:56 PM

CMNot

11-13-2008, 02:03 PM

Germany and France are FOUNDING members. Live with it. (Or get out of EU if you are not happy about it)

...and doesn't the CAP show it.

a_very_ex_STAB

11-13-2008, 02:09 PM

Lol typically polish... they just joined and they think they can impose their own rules and ways.

Germany and France are FOUNDING members. Live with it. (Or get out of EU if you are not happy about it)

Since when did that become relevant?

Or did you just let slip what the Eurosceptics have suspected all along - that the EUSSR is simply a plot to achieve by stealth what Napoleon and Hitler failed to achieve by force?

Your controllers in the Commission will not be happy with your performance comrade

roflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

xav

11-13-2008, 02:45 PM

Since when did that become relevant?

Or did you just let slip what the Eurosceptics have suspected all along - that the EUSSR is simply a plot to achieve by stealth what Napoleon and Hitler failed to achieve by force?

Your controllers in the Commission will not be happy with your performance comrade

roflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

Yeah whatever
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/image.php?u=11971&dateline=1224757800

:roll:

domark3

11-13-2008, 02:49 PM

To my opinion there was never any kind of energy blackmail from Russia. The energy given in credit to Ukraine was not paid in time. That was a key point to stop further supplying until covering the debt or revising it. It is elementary buisness logic of each savvy person. Look, for example, how it could be if to come to advanced payment... Would it be better for all?

daily666

11-13-2008, 05:48 PM

GazB

11-13-2008, 08:31 PM

I don't believe that the powergrid will reduce the profits of Nord Stream, it doesn't include other pipeline toward Russia.

Saw the news yesterday and Putin was negotiating with Finland. The Russians agreed to delay the imposing of tarriffs on the export of wood for a year or so to allow Finland to diversify. The leader of Finland said they were not going to withdraw their objection to the nord stream gas pipeline, to which Putin basically said that if the pipeline does not go ahead they will build a plant to liquify the natural gas as it can be sold at a higher rate than in gas form through a pipeline.

Sounds to me like the Russians are prepared for any countermeasure the West might try.

Lazarou

11-14-2008, 01:24 AM

Saw the news yesterday and Putin was negotiating with Finland. The Russians agreed to delay the imposing of
tarriffs on the export of wood for a year or so to allow Finland to diversify.
Off topic:

If the wood tariffs go into full effect, 40 000 Russians will lose their jobs. Not a very good equation in the current economic situation, and Putin understands that.

tea drinker

11-14-2008, 04:22 AM

It's a British idea if you haven't noticed. They are the net payers too, so shut up and live with it (in USA btw).
Thread hits the powerband p-)

Telmar

11-14-2008, 06:20 AM

Well as a Polish I approve this plan too.

After second thought Germany and France will kill it anyway.

Maybe not...this Greenpeace plan could have the support of Sarkozy and Brown, just as Sarko and Brown agree on the supergrid transporting electricity from solar plants in the Sahara.

http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2222278/eu-african-solar-farms-plan

The UK and France are remarkably close since this summer.

CMNot

11-14-2008, 06:55 AM

The UK and France are remarkably close since this summer.

A good thing.

Karry

11-14-2008, 07:32 AM

If the wood tariffs go into full effect, 40 000 Russians will lose their jobs.
1) If wood tariffs go up - there will be new factories built inside Russia, meaning more work. +
2) If wood tariffs go up - then Finns will try to steal wood more agressively, someone will have to guard borders and execute customs checks more often, meaning more work. +

StalinOrgel

11-14-2008, 08:02 AM

Well my congradulations to EU. There is only one little thing left, to raise Nigeria gas production 900% and to build 5000 km long pipeline.
Gas from Azerbaijan is really bad idea. They just dont have enough gas. Russians have persuaded Central Asia to run its gas through Russia.

Kitsune

11-14-2008, 09:39 AM

I completely support plans like this as well. But I would complement it with building a considerable number of "CleanCoal" plants as well as nuclear powerplants. As far as the latter are concerned, it would be good to concentrate on safe High-Temperature-Reactors for which a core-meltdown is impossible. This may need considerable investments, but it is wise starting to reduce dependency on oil in general, not only because of Russia. Some pessimists believe that oil will be running out far earlier than presently suspected, and if that should be true, anyone not ready for it will suffer. Badly.
In the end, it is quite possible that in the not-so-distant future, we will be needing any single powerplant we have.

a_very_ex_STAB

11-14-2008, 10:17 AM

I completely support plans like this as well. But I would complement it with building a considerable number of "CleanCoal" plants as well as nuclear powerplants as well. As far as the latter are concerned, it would be good to concentrate on safe High-Temperature-Reactors for which a core-meltdown is impossible. This may need considerable investments, but it is wise starting to reduce dependency on oil in general, not only because of Russia. Some pessimists believe that oil will be running out far earlier than presently suspected, and if that should be true, anyone not ready for it will suffer. Badly.
In the end, it is quite possible that in the not-so-distant future, we will be needing any single powerplant we have.

For once I agree with Kitsune about something

~~~~

11-14-2008, 01:02 PM

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2765/mapgm8.jpg

Full article: link (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article5142622.ece)

at least!!

but I wonder how much time will it take to build all that stuff...

gazell

11-14-2008, 03:11 PM

Maybe not...this Greenpeace plan could have the support of Sarkozy and Brown, just as Sarko and Brown agree on the supergrid transporting electricity from solar plants in the Sahara.

Yep, the horrible truth about a lot of renewable energy, that they deliver near nought, depending on where you are, your geography and climate.

As for Russia and politics of energy source embargo as an argument in political discussion, by no chance it is, that the EU thought to pull up such plan would be handy. Trust me, I'd grown up around there.p-)

GazB

11-15-2008, 02:50 AM

If the wood tariffs go into full effect, 40 000 Russians will lose their jobs. Not a very good equation in the current economic situation, and Putin understands that.

40,000 fired from one industry... there are plenty of factories that have gotten contracts to make stuff now there is money in the budget who would love to hire people.

The purpose of the tariffs is to promote adding value to raw material before it is exported so that Russia gets more benefit from its raw material. Makes a lot of sense to me.