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View Full Version : Karzai : to US and EU leave the country or remove me



Horizon
11-17-2008, 03:25 PM
President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan has offered to provide security for the Taleban's reclusive leader, Mullah Omar, if he agrees to peace talks.

Mr Karzai made the offer despite the multi-million dollar bounty offered for the militant leader's capture by the United States.

He said that if the US and other Western countries disagreed, they could either leave the country or remove him.

There was no immediate response to Mr Karzai's offer from the militants.

Mullah Omar escaped capture when the Taleban were ousted from power in 2001.

Correspondents say there is a growing international debate about whether to negotiate with the Taleban as the insurgents make gains in Afghanistan.

Speaking at a news conference in the Afghan capital Kabul, Mr Karzai said:

"If I hear from him [Mullah Omar] that he is willing to come to Afghanistan or to negotiate for peace... I, as the president of Afghanistan, will go to any length to provide him [with] protection.

"If I say I want protection for Mullah Omar, then the international community has two choices: remove me, or leave if they disagree. And both are good.

"If I am removed in the cause of peace for Afghanistan by force by them, then I'll be very happy. But if they disagree they can leave. But we are not in that stage yet."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7732301.stm


No one picked the article?? I recognize the man has grandeur to say remove me; I think he is honest, but maybe not the right man to rule Afghanistan, even if one government could rule Afghanistan ever.It must be extraordinary difficult to be the President and have people confidence when your foreign allies kills civilians by dozen, indiscriminately, when your government of compromises entice corruption at state scale.

One gonna say that fighting an insurgency collateral fatalities may happen, I would say yes, but not every two weeks with 20 to 40 killed by...mistake.
What about the use of F/A-18 Hornets and other multi-role fighter jets for close air support, I don't think this type of combat platform is adapted to COIN operations, or chasing tangos on foot...for this work you don't need MACH speed, but you need very good visibility, low speed and patience, like the AV 10 Bronco; the US used COIN aircrafts in Vietnam, with success, but in this war the US has no methods.

This war will not be win by massive superior technology, but by the side who has the most will, motivation, and warrior spirit; the coalition spirit is down, with false ideas like the lacks of military hardware, not enough troops, and so on.Everyday soldiers are filled with debilitating feelings, this armor will protect you better, don't engage until you have CAS, helos, reinforcements, be wise, don't go out it's risky etc.Talibans just act, they do war without MEDEVAC, body armor, TVs, Playstation, they are efficient with what they have on hands, no access to high-tec weaponry? no problem DIY lethal weapons, they die? another one rise and continue the fight, something to loose? not much, what can be more exiting that fighting in your own country to repulse the invaders, add it high spirit and religion fervor and you have that explosing mix, who ruins our dreams of a "pacified" Afghanistan.

PeterG
11-17-2008, 03:32 PM
One gonna say that fighting an insurgency collateral fatalities may happen, I would say yes, but not every two weeks with 20 to 40 killed by...mistake.
What about the use of F/A-18 Hornets and other multi-role fighter jets for close air support, I don't think this type of combat platform is adapted to COIN operations, or chasing tangos on foot...for this work you don't need MACH speed, but you need very good visibility, low speed and patience, like the AV 10 Bronco; the US used COIN aircrafts in Vietnam, with success, but in this war the US has no methods.



Get real.. CAS now are better than ever. JDAMs and LGBs, A-10s and Apaches.. UAVs.. Troops on the ground can call in more, faster and more effective air support than ever before.

2495
11-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Remove the ungrateful fvcker and let his slow beheading be posted on the net after they hand him over to the Talibs.

US/UK/CAN/OZ/NZ and others leave?

roflroflroflrofl

Hes having a bloody giraffe.

Vorian
11-17-2008, 03:50 PM
Remove the ungrateful fvcker and let his slow beheading be posted on the net after they hand him over to the Talibs.

.

That's just like admiting that instead of "spreading democracy" they just created a protectorate

Mordecai
11-17-2008, 04:55 PM
Its been time for HK to go for some years now. He was the best of what was there at the time...not so much now.

khukuri
11-17-2008, 05:03 PM
Remove the ungrateful fvcker and let his slow beheading be posted on the net after they hand him over to the Talibs.




He is trying to assure mullah omar with the biggest words and chip he has. Its afghan rethoric, dont bother....

Rictor
11-17-2008, 08:36 PM
He's just playing to his crowd. Showing that he's not a lackey. Not that, I suspect, Mullah Omar will ever take him up on his offer.

But seriously, who does the US have that's better for the job? One of the corrupt warlords? Zalmay Khalilzad? Masoud's younger brother? Get real - none of those people have a shred of legitimacy. It's the Major of Kabul or...bust.

4X4Driver
11-17-2008, 08:40 PM
He's just playing to his crowd. Showing that he's not a lackey. Not that, I suspect, Mullah Omar will ever take him up on his offer.

But seriously, who does the US have that's better for the job? One of the corrupt warlords? Zalmay Khalilzad? Masoud's younger brother? Get real - none of those people have a shred of legitimacy. It's the Major of Kabul or...bust.

How 'bout Gen. Dostum?? :)

ren0312
11-18-2008, 02:33 AM
Curtis Lemay had a one size fits all solution for these problems.

lightfire
11-18-2008, 04:03 AM
talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

Topper
11-18-2008, 03:51 PM
This war will not be win by massive superior technology, but by the side who has the most will, motivation, and warrior spirit; the coalition spirit is down, with false ideas like the lacks of military hardware, not enough troops, and so on.Everyday soldiers are filled with debilitating feelings, this armor will protect you better, don't engage until you have CAS, helos, reinforcements, be wise, don't go out it's risky etc.Talibans just act, they do war without MEDEVAC, body armor, TVs, Playstation, they are efficient with what they have on hands, no access to high-tec weaponry? no problem DIY lethal weapons, they die? another one rise and continue the fight, something to loose? not much, what can be more exiting that fighting in your own country to repulse the invaders, add it high spirit and religion fervor and you have that explosing mix, who ruins our dreams of a "pacified" Afghanistan.

Blah, Blah, Blah :backhand:

Supe
11-18-2008, 10:07 PM
He is trying to assure mullah omar with the biggest words and chip he has. Its afghan rethoric, dont bother....

Exactomundo. And if a peaceful solution can be brokered by including Talib leadership and that country returns to relative peace then all stakeholder nations should be for it. As long as AQ gets squeezed out. It might not be the perfect solution or the fairytale vision of a Democratic, liberal nation but they have to start somewhere. Peace and stability are good foundations.

Karzai is doing a politically astute thing. He's saying he's nobody's 'man'. It's a perception he needs to cultivate further as there are some who think he is nothing more than a puppet. I don't believe this to be the case but he is one person walking a very delicate tightrope.

timetraveller
11-18-2008, 10:09 PM
Sandy Shaw - Puppet on a string ...

Metallica - Master of puppets ...


He reminds of those 2 songs ...

timetraveller
11-18-2008, 10:13 PM
No one picked the article?? I recognize the man has grandeur to say remove me; I think he is honest, but maybe not the right man to rule Afghanistan, even if one government could rule Afghanistan ever.It must be extraordinary difficult to be the President and have people confidence when your foreign allies kills civilians by dozen, indiscriminately, when your government of compromises entice corruption at state scale.

One gonna say that fighting an insurgency collateral fatalities may happen, I would say yes, but not every two weeks with 20 to 40 killed by...mistake.
What about the use of F/A-18 Hornets and other multi-role fighter jets for close air support, I don't think this type of combat platform is adapted to COIN operations, or chasing tangos on foot...for this work you don't need MACH speed, but you need very good visibility, low speed and patience, like the AV 10 Bronco; the US used COIN aircrafts in Vietnam, with success, but in this war the US has no methods.

This war will not be win by massive superior technology, but by the side who has the most will, motivation, and warrior spirit; the coalition spirit is down, with false ideas like the lacks of military hardware, not enough troops, and so on.Everyday soldiers are filled with debilitating feelings, this armor will protect you better, don't engage until you have CAS, helos, reinforcements, be wise, don't go out it's risky etc.Talibans just act, they do war without MEDEVAC, body armor, TVs, Playstation, they are efficient with what they have on hands, no access to high-tec weaponry? no problem DIY lethal weapons, they die? another one rise and continue the fight, something to loose? not much, what can be more exiting that fighting in your own country to repulse the invaders, add it high spirit and religion fervor and you have that explosing mix, who ruins our dreams of a "pacified" Afghanistan.


Some war junkies have forgotten what it was like during ww2 when such tech wasn't freely available ,,, the Allies won it with Hard Graft ... and sheer determination ..and each Soldier sailor Airman looking out for each out in the heat of battle ...

And even today in Astan you can't deny the hard graft and determination by those ....

Horizon
11-19-2008, 05:48 PM
Get real.. CAS now are better than ever. JDAMs and LGBs, A-10s and Apaches.. UAVs.. Troops on the ground can call in more, faster and more effective air support than ever before.

"Endurance beyond weapon availability is not needed – indeed, this reduces the utility of a COIN aircraft – and empty pylons is the signal to replace the platform on-station. Employing weapons in close proximity to civilians or friendly troops requires excellent situational awareness (SA). Unfortunately, this is an SA level that cannot currently be met by UAVs. Certainly some UAVs are employed in this manner but a limited weapon selection with limited SA means that some targets are not hit, or not hit appropriately."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2056693/posts

I'm not sure you catched the COIN concept.



Supe :
Karzai is doing a politically astute thing. He's saying he's nobody's 'man'. It's a perception he needs to cultivate further as there are some who think he is nothing more than a puppet. I don't believe this to be the case but he is one person walking a very delicate tightrope.


Yes he implies whatever coalition thinks of his achievements, "it's me or I let you dealing with the mess".



TimeTraveller :
And even today in Astan you can't deny the hard graft and determination by those ....


John I must admit I looked "hard graft" with Google to get the meaning, is that an usual expression?