WWII German Secret Weapons from the Air

[uniroad]

Warning! Many Big Images..

All photos are from http://www.luft46.com/ (very good site for WWII German aircraft project)

Enjoy wonderful graphics! ;)

http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jg179-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jg179-7.jpg

Heinkel He P.1079B/II, jet heavy fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jglor-2.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw "Super Lorin", ramjet fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jg795-1.jpg

Messerschmitt Me P.1079/13b, single seat fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jg794-3.jpg

Messerschmitt Me P.1079/51, single seat fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jg329-7.jpg

Messerschmitt Me 329, twin-engine bomber

http://www.luft46.com/jgart/jg283-3.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw 283, ramjet fighter

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh162-1.jpg

Heinkel He 162A

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh162d-5.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh162d-6.jpg

Heinkel He 162 w/, forward-swept wings

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh078-4.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh078-1.jpg

Heinkel He P.1078A, single-seat fighter

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh183-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/ghart/gh183-5.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw Ta 183, single-seat fighter

http://www.luft46.com/ghart/ghtrb-3.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/ghart/ghtrb-1.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw Triebflugel, rotary-wing fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jhbmw-3.jpg

BMW Strahljager III, single-seat fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jh180-1.jpg

Heinkel He 343, jet bomber

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jhp14-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jhp14-3.jpg

Skoda-Kauba Sk P.14.02, ramjet fighter

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jh193-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jh193-3.jpg

Blohm & Voss BV P.193, Ground Attacker

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jhsang-6.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jhsang-5.jpg

Sanger "Silverbird", Orbital Bomber

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jha4b-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jha9-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jha6-2.jpg

A-4b, A-6, A9/A10

http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gm188-3.jpg

Blohm & Voss BV P.188.04, 4-Jet Bomber

http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmp14-3.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmp14-4.jpg

Skoda-Kauba Sk P.14, Ramjet Fighter

http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmfw4-7.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmfw4-8.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmfw4-9.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw P.III/IV, Single-Seat Fighter

http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mmwesp5.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mmart/mmwesp4.jpg

Heinkel "Wespe", VTOL Fighter

http://www.luft46.com/roart/rotew-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/roart/rotew-2.jpg

Arado Ar TEW 16/43-13, rocket interceptor

http://www.luft46.com/aoart/ao381-3.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/aoart/ao381-4.jpg

Arado Ar E.381, Parasite Fighter

http://www.luft46.com/rpart/rpbvm-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/rpart/rpbvm-3.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/rpart/rpbvm-4.jpg

Blohm & Voss BV, Rocket Mistel

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr229-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr229-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr229-3.jpg

Horten Ho 229, Flying Wing

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mra6-4.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mra6-3.jpg

EMW A-6

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mrvto-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mrvto-2.jpg

Focke-Wulf VTOL Project

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr132-5.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr132-2.jpg

Junkers Ju EF132 Bomber

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mrdbf-5.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mrdbf-4.jpg

Daimler Benz DB Project "F"

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr283-1.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw Ta 283

http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds500-3.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds500-2.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds500-1.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw 500, heavy fighter "Kugelblitz"

http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds128-3.jpg

Junkers Ju EF128, single seat fighter

http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds343-1.jpg

Heinkel He 343

http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds262-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/dsart/ds262-3.jpg

Messerschmitt Me 262 HG, "early variant"

http://www.luft46.com/kwart/kw87-3.jpg

Henschel Hs P.87, Schnellbomber

http://www.luft46.com/vaart/du1110.jpg

Messerschmitt Me P.1110/I

http://www.luft46.com/vaart/tcfw3-1.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/vaart/tcfw3-2.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw 1000x3, B Bomber

http://www.luft46.com/vaart/tc79-3.jpg
http://www.luft46.com/vaart/tc79-1.jpg

Heinkel He P.1079A, Nightfighter

[tenda]

cool graph.........man !!! :lol:

[Pille1234]

what computer game is that?

[Tengu]

too little too late. Thank god.

Nice pics man.

[RSK]

Awsome pics man!!!!!!

[Metak]

http://www.mikegrantdesign.com/modelpix/Mistel1.jpg
http://www.rlm.at/galerie/02/mistel_originalfoto.jpg

This is Mistel1. It is combination of Bf-109 and unmanned Ju88 which is used as a bomb

[ZeroPositive]

amazing pics

[Uncle Chô]

what computer game is that?
It is not a computer game. Those are digital images renderings of the various German projects as of mid 1945 (the He-162 / Me 262 saw operational use). Some of them were never left the drawing boards, some others were at various tests or prototype building stages :roll:

This is what we (modellers) refer as " Luft' 46" (for "if " Luftwaffe 1946 ;)).

Had the Nazis enough raw material and petrol to build and fly the aircrafts, the war may have changed :roll:

Stunning artistic work anyway!

[Metak]

He 162 in the museums...

http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/heinkel/images/He162A120076.JPG
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/heinkel/images/He162Chino.jpg
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/heinkel/images/He162RAFM.jpg
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/heinkel/images/He162NASM.jpg

...and during the war

http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/kepek/planes/pics/he162_3.jpg
http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/kepek/planes/pics/he162_2.jpg

Spanish site with German WWII jets:
http://exordio.com/1939-1945/militaris/armamento/luftwaffe2GER.html

[kenshiroIT]

WOOW cool pics :D

[scrybe]

Yea those are some great renderings, congrats to whoever pu all those togther. Some of those had some very innovative ideas in them, and look pretty damn cool.

[droopy]

Hwo elsse agrees that if there was no WW2 and german scientists the human race would be far less tehnologycal advanced ?

[Uncle Chô]

http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmp14-3.jpg

http://www.luft46.com/gmart/gmfw4-7.jpg

Typical German landscape and surroundings (unless they are current relics leftover in the Luftwaffe area at Luke AFB)? rofl rofl

[Lone Predator]

the germans were in italy and africa in ww2...

[Raistlin]

Wow. I knew the 3rd Reich had some crazy/genius plane ideas up its sleeve but I never knew there were so many- orbit bomber?? Even looks like NASA's X33-34-36

[Herrmannek]

Wow. I knew the 3rd Reich had some crazy/genius plane ideas up its sleeve but I never knew there were so many- orbit bomber?? Even looks like NASA's X33-34-36

To qoute one of our forum member: This is called plagiarism :)

[Philbert]

I sware some of those are from battlefireld 1942 - secret weapons of WW2, are you sure they are ideas, cause most of them are just so stupid and could never work.

[Adri]

wow, nice planes ! :D

[catalyst]

this looks so mch like the JSF!
http://www.luft46.com/vaart/tc79-3.jpg

vs

http://www.arnold.af.mil/aedc/testhighlights/aeropropulsion/jsf.jpg

[Raistlin]

To qoute one of our forum member: This is called plagiarism :)
Hehe, I hope you were joking.


this looks so mch like the JSF!
I thought the same thing! But I was too lazy to find a pic - thanks :P

[Herrmannek]

To qoute one of our forum member: This is called plagiarism :)
Hehe, I hope you were joking.

Yes :)

[He219]

Great pic's, uniroad.

Indeed, those designs proved to be no less than revolutionary ..

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr229-1.jpg
The HoIX was actually built by the Gothaer Wogon-factory as the Go229 in the Baravian Alps.

Why a wagon factory?
Because of the inherent design benefits of using wooden composites considering the scarcety of aluminum at that time ..

The original 'stealth fighter':

http://jpcolliat.free.fr/ho9/images/ho9v3_12.jpg
http://jpcolliat.free.fr/ho9/images/ho9v2_04.jpg
http://jpcolliat.free.fr/ho9/images/ho9v2_06.jpg
http://jpcolliat.free.fr/ho9/images/ho9v2_01.jpg
http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Horten_Nurflugels/ho_ix/ho_ix_first_flight.jpg

Ho IX V2 was transferred in January 1945 to Oranienberg for powered flight testing Flight tests went quite well. Handling characteristics were much better than expected. A maximum level speed of 497 mph was attained during the tests.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg1099.jpg
^ Horten IX (Go229) V-3 currently at the NASM Paul Garber Facility awaiting restoration (He219 wing in the back ;) )

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Thanks for posting. These are the best rederings of 3rd Reich aircraft concepts I have seen.

[AFACadet]

Both the east and the west used German design concepts well into the 60s and 70s and a large part of the European, Soviet, and North American jet forces right after WWII were heavily modeled after german designs if not outright copies.

[pinkeye]

terrific post!! german scientists and engineers were definitely decades ahead of everyone else. frankly, the pics are frightening because they inevitably force you contemplate the simple fact that nazi germany could and probably should have won the war. on the flipside, the allied victory is that much more impressive...

[Kitsune]

Those pictures are impressive, thats for sure.

But be realistic: These are, for the most part, ideas, plans, sketches and outlines. The reason for these was more or less that Germany was some years ahead of everyone else in rocket and jet propulsion technology (Hitler actually WASTED nearly two of these years, before the Me 262 came out...) and since this technologies were a leap ahead in aircraft design, the Germans were naturally the first who thought about how the jet propulsed aircraft of the future might look. Thats more or less is it. "Decades ahead" is a gross overstatement in any case. Many of those projects weren't realizable for many, many years (take the "Sänger" for example...something like this hasn't been realized even now).

[He219]

Not at all. They were decades ahead. :lol:

Take the jet fighter, the stealthy flying wing jet fighter, the swept wing, the forward swept wing, the cruise missile, the ballistic missile, the television guided anti-shipping cruise missile that turned into a torpedo, the guided air-to-air missiles, the surface to air missiles, the ejection seat etc..... Well ahead of their time!

Some of these made it into production.

I give you a prime example:

Another plane build in Oberammergau ;)
http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Me-P1101/P1100_3.jpg

The P.1101 as found by the Allies in 1945

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14a-p1101-01.gif

Messerschmidt The P.1100 at Oberammergau May 1945 fitted with a Heinkel He S 011 engine:

The Bell X-5 origins from a 1944 design by Messerschmidt, called Me P1101. The Me P1101 was intended to be a possible replacement for the twin-engined jet-fighter Me262 and should have been faster and more agile than the Me262 because of the use of newly invented sweep-wings. The first prototype of the P1101 had already swing-wings, but these could change sweep angle only when on the ground. The engine was the Heinkel He S 011 jet-engine with only 12.75 kN!

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14a-x5-01.gif
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14a-x5-02.gif

An extract from NASA papers: "The X-5 (1950 - 1954) was the first aircraft capable of sweeping its wings in flight. (Note by the editor: The Me P1101's wingsweep angle could only be changed on the ground) It was a single-place jet-powered aircraft measuring 30 ft in length with a wingspan of 19 feet (with the wings swept back 60 degrees). The wings could be swept back 20 to 60 degrees. The X-5 weighed 10,000 pounds when fully fueled.

"Its mission was to study the effect of wing-sweep angles of 20, 45 and 60 degrees at subsonic and transsonic speeds. Results from these tests provided some of the design background for the F-111 and the Navy F-14 tactical aircraft.

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14a-x5-03.gif

Two X-5's were manufactured by Bell Aircraft Co. The X-5 was powered by an Allison J-45-A jet engine with a static thrust of 4900 pounds. The maximum speed was 716 mph and the maximum altitude reached was 49,919 feet. The aircraft was equipped with an ejection seat.

"The first flight was completed on June 20, 1951, with Jean Ziegler, Bell test pilot, at the controls.
"Results of the research program provided a significant full-scale verification of NASA wind-tunnel predictions for the reduced drag and improved performance resulting from increasing the wing sweep as the speed of the aircraft approaches the speed of sound. The pilots found they could use the variable wing sweep as a tactical control to outperform accompanying escort aircraft during research missions."
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-f14a-p1101.htm

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I'd agree with that. While the Germans were undoubtedly far ahead - many of these are nothing more than fanciful concepts.

Like the flying wing Ho IX V2 - they may have flight tested it & all, but I'd wager that the design was wholly unworkable due to yaw problems. No vertical stabilizer of any kind. Control would be spooky - especially if one engine were to go out. The B2 uses computers to control the problem.

One has to wonder if instead of putting attention and resources on all these separate designs, if they had instead concentrated on a couple that were less innovative - they could have produced them in real numbers.

Thankfully they didn't! Anyway - outstanding artwork. Now go produce a Flight Sim fully implementing DX-9 featuring these models!

[He219]

More fanciful concepts:
;)

http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/P1101-1.jpg
http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/Mig15-1.jpg

The Me P.1101 led to the design of most modern jet fighters in all parts of the world.2 The configuration of the Me P.1101 and the similarity of the F-86 and MiG-15 is no coincidence as shown in the picture above

http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/Mig15.jpghttp://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/Guenther.jpg

A Russian defector, Captain V.L. Sokolov caused a big ripple when he testified that Siegfried Guenther, on right, chief designer for Heinkel Aircraft, had offered his services to America in 1945, but was turned down. The Russians hired Guenther who designed the MiG 15/17. For the amazing story of the supersonic DFS-346 designed and flown by German's in Russia, the MiG-15 jet and the design of the Russian jet bombers and the Russian B-29 by clicking here to download English translation from Ref. 8.

A number of US aircraft that benefited and used the data from the design of the Me P.1101 were:
The XP-86 had straight wings and was "Germanized" and converted to the F-86 "Sabre." The swept wings made it a great aircraft. Parts from the Me 262 wings were used. See references 1, 2, 3 and 8.
The "Thunderjet" derived from the P-47 "Thunderbolt" was designed into the F-84 F "Thunderstreak" based on the German development of swept wings.
McDonnell converted the design of a long range fighter to one with swept wings. XF-88. Later F-101.
Douglas and Convair designed new delta wing jets based on German data.
Chance Vought developed the F7U "Cutlass" based on German designs, sketches and consultants.
Bell X-2 was designed with swept wings. The X-1 had flown supersonic at 1.05 Mach by the use of brut force.

In the Russian zone of Germany other events took place. The Russians had promised the Germans that they could remain in Germany while working for the Russians. However, on October 22, 1946, 92 empty trains had been brought into Berlin. Then at 2 AM in the morning, at gunpoint, the Russians took 20,000 Germans scientists and engineers, placed them on these trains and deported them to two locations near Moscow. The scientists included rocket experts, navigation and control and electronic experts. Complete aircraft companies such as Junkers and their Chief, Dr. Bruno Baade, were deported. Some scientists were kept as long as 20 years before they were allowed to return to Germany. In Russia, the German scientists were put to work redesigning aircraft and rockets developed in Germany during the war. In Russia, the conditions were dismal but the Germans worked hard with the promise that they would be returned to their homes. By 1954, the Junkers group was allowed to return to Germany. Out of 800 men, 25 died, 5 committed suicide, and 2 went insane.4 Not only had German technology given the Russians a lead in space and rockets, but they designed the MiG 15/17. The MiG 15 (alias I-310) first flew in December 30, 1947 and it was designed by German's.7, 8 Appearance of the Mig 15 in 1950 in the Korean conflict was a shock to the United States. German jet designs developed during WWII were far advanced for their time and they include:



http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/DFS-346-2.jpg
http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/B-29-1.jpg
http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/DFS-346-3.jpg

A picture of the DFS-346 under the wing of a Russian B-29 (Tu-4) is shown below. To the lower left, the DFS-346 in a wind tunnel. The pilot lay on his stomach. With this position he was able to withstand 11 gs compared to 6 gs when seated.9 On its first flight in Russia, Wolfgang Ziese, the German pilot reached a speed of Mach 1.02 He later flew the Russian "Samolot 5-2" which was a copy of the DFS-346 and also broke the sound barrier two months before Chuck Yeager did in the Bell X-1. On his last flight, Ziese bailed out of the Samolot, under strange circumstances, he died on the way to the hospital in Russia.


http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/P.183.jpghttp://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/P.183-2.JPG

Multhopp P.183 designed at Focke-Wulf. It used a wing sweep of 40 degrees, projected speed was 620 mph at 46,000 feet. Scheduled first flight was June 1945. The similarity in configuration, wing design and engine placement of the MiG 15, left to the P.183 is shown.2

The Mig 15 used the British designed Nene engine. However the engine was limited in thrust. Only a true axial gas turbine engine such as the Wagner Jumo designs could be used for increase performance.
http://www.aeroscientists.org/jets2.html




Like the flying wing Ho IX V2 - they may have flight tested it & all, but I'd wager that the design was wholly unworkable due to yaw problems. No vertical stabilizer of any kind. Control would be spooky - especially if one engine were to go out. The B2 uses computers to control the problem.

Hehe
:D

Without a doubt this aircraft was many many years "ahead of it's time" and demonstrates some of the aeronautical design brilliance that was present in Germany during the period. It certainly seems humorous to think that the Northrop B-2 Stealth Bomber that we see today of comparable design requires millions of dollars of computers to enable it to simply stay airborne. In contrast the Horten designed Go-229 performed perfectly well with conventional mechanical control linkages. Also it was designed without all of today's advanced design aids but rather on sound principles of aerodynamics. http://www.geocities.com/nedu537/go229/

Extensive performance tests were made on the conrol surfaces of the flying wing ..

http://nacismus.mysteria.cz/luftwaffe/luftimag/horten_v1.jpg

Flight tests started on the 1/3/1944 with the V-1, which was built as a unpowered glider.

http://nacismus.mysteria.cz/luftwaffe/luftimag/horten7.jpg

Stroj Horten VII se dvěma motory Argus As 10 C

[Herrmannek]

I always wondered what would happen if Hittler woul be smart enough to not start with USA...In all my "what would happen ifs..." we were fukked esspecialy it would give Nazis enough time to develop nuclear bomb and I'm sure that few working prototypes would be enough...

[Raistlin]

I always wondered what would happen if Hittler woul be smart enough to not start with USA...
Funny, many historians ask themselves the same thing but only about CCCP ;)

[Herrmannek]

I always wondered what would happen if Hittler woul be smart enough to not start with USA...
Funny, many historians ask themselves the same thing but only about CCCP ;)

Its almost sure that if Hitler wouldnt start with CCCP, Stalin would start with Nazis...Hitler wasn't completly mad :) and choosed most apropierate moment .

[mi35d]

I get rather tired of the "years ahead" and "they coulda won!" arguments.

The documentaries on tv center on the German experimental production to get a scare tactic going through the audience. Meanwhile, the US was well on its way to making up any lost ground. For example, the P-80 was flying in mid 1944 and countless designs were on the books. (BEFORE German scientists became guests of the US.) A few minor things to consider as well, the US was already fielding a massive bomber force that would have rendered any airfields in Germany useless. (B-32 and by 1946, the B-36). Oh, and that minor thing - the Atomic bomb that would have been completed and functional regardless of how many super-zippy jet fighters the Luftwaffe fielded.

Turning the tide? Doubtful. The war would have been won a bit later by the massive tide of men coming from the west and east. The Germans would still have lost. No Navy. No long range bombers. Tanks that were superior in combat but were unreliable. The majority of their grunts still using a 19th Century designed bolt action rifle...etc. etc. etc.

Form follows function. The US was designing flying wings just like Germany. It's a design thing. Where to put the engines? How do we streamline the aircraft? What do we do about fuel, controls, etc.?

HG Wells wrote about a time machine - doesn't mean that British were YEARS ahead of everyone else concerning quantum physics.

[He219]

I always wondered what would happen if Hittler woul be smart enough to not start with USA...In all my "what would happen ifs..." we were fukked esspecialy it would give Nazis enough time to develop nuclear bomb and I'm sure that few working prototypes would be enough...
Fortunately that was never to happen. They also weren't even close to developing a deliverable 'bomb' ..

However, the technicall innovations are quite astounding ..

The most capable plane of WWII:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0008.jpg
Ar-234B at NASM's Garber restoration facility in Silver Hill, Maryland (http://ipmslondon.tripod.com/referencearticles/id6.html)

http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-11.jpg
JATO (another innovation)
;)

http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-13.jpg
Note the Guided Bombs

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an41a.jpg

The "Fritz X" (or PC 1400 X) was a 3,450 lb. armor-piercing bomb fitted with a radio receiver and control surfaces in the tail. It was intended for use against heavily armored ships or ground targets. When dropped from 20,000 feet, an altitude above the most effective anti-aircraft defense, it could penetrate about 28 inches of armor. Aided by flares in the bomb's tail, the bombardier could follow its fall after release and could send radio signals which moved the control surfaces and produced minor changes in the bomb's course.

Later operational Fritz X bombs were wire-guided instead of radio-controlled to prevent jamming. The first operational use was on August 29, 1943--over the Mediterranean--and the most famous employment of the Fritz X was the sinking of the Italian Battleship Roma off Sardinia on September 9, 1943, to prevent its surrender to the Allies. Between April 1943 and December 1944, about 1,386 of these weapons were produced; 602 were expended in testing and training. Its combat use was limited by the small number of Luftwaffe aircraft available to carry it and its relatively poor accuracy, which averaged about 20% against Allied shipping.

http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-16.jpg
http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-5.jpg
Ar 234 V-16

http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-7.jpg
Esperimento di traino semirigido applicato ad una V-1 trasformata in serbatorio da circa 1.250 litri che alimentava un Ar 234B-2

http://www.luft46.com/arado/ar381-10.jpg
:lol:

[Raistlin]

Its almost sure that if Hitler wouldnt start with CCCP, Stalin would start with Nazis...
Hm, who told you that?

[vryhpyammoadded]

I've always admired the Luft 46 website. There's some really great aviation art there. Maybe some day someone will make a similar site as good covering allied and other axis experimental and concept planes.

One of my favorite "what ifs" has been, what if the gas turbine engine took longer to develop and what would the next generation prop planes and engines have looked like?

[scattergun]

Good thing allied troops beat the hell out of the Germans on the ground!

[Herrmannek]

I always wondered what would happen if Hittler woul be smart enough to not start with USA...In all my "what would happen ifs..." we were fukked esspecialy it would give Nazis enough time to develop nuclear bomb and I'm sure that few working prototypes would be enough...
Fortunately that was never to happen. They also weren't even close to developing a deliverable 'bomb' ..


What you mean weren't close, they had everything in technical/material/intelectual meaning only thing they lacked was one genial idiot with few "trivial" ideas and some more time for him to articulate his thoughts... :)

[Uncle Chô]

http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-7.jpg
(Towing experiment of a V1 Cruise Missile for air launch)
Are you sure? I thought it was a towed fuel tank for in flight refueling...

[Hydro]

The Germans attacked a few ships in the Med with wire guided Air-to-Surface missiles in 1943...I think they were called "Fritz-X" or something.

The Germans certainly had the technical know-how, but by the time they came around to developing it, it was too late. If the war had taken a different course, and dragged on for longer, it certainly would've been interesting. The British could have developed their EM-2, the Germans would be fielding the STG-44 in larger numbers, and possibly even look at replacing it with the STG-45M, snipers engaged in night duels with infra-red sights, like the Vampir, and the SniperScope. British Comet and Centurion, alongside US Pershing medium tanks, going head to head with Tiger II's, and those huge SturmTiger monstrosities.

[Herrmannek]

Someone must make movie with that scenario...

[He219]

http://fun.supereva.it/arse.freeweb/Ar234-7.jpg
(Towing experiment of a V1 Cruise Missile for air launch)
Are you sure? I thought it was a towed fuel tank for in flight refueling...

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0212.jpg
You are right. The Italian text says so.
:oops:

They slung the V1 underneath a He111 for air-launch:
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/v1-1.jpg

[Hydro]

Someone must make movie with that scenario...

That would be very very cool indeed. Don't know where you'd find EM-2's or Vampirs for a movie, mind you ;)

[Herrmannek]

Someone must make movie with that scenario...

That would be very very cool indeed. Don't know where you'd find EM-2's or Vampirs for a movie, mind you ;)

Airsofters have everything :)

[He219]

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0387.jpg

The Germans attacked a few ships in the Med with wire guided Air-to-Surface missiles in 1943...I think they were called "Fritz-X" or something.

I mentioned earlier that the Italian Battleship Roma was sunk this way ..
;)


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0235.jpg
Lippisch DM-1 (Reminds me of Shuttle 'Tiberius' in Return of the Jedi)


Considering that they got this (http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/lrg0361.jpg) (BV141) to fly, you've gotta give 'em a little credit!
:lol:

[Kitsune]

Actually, I think it is highly likely that the USA would have declared war on Germany in that case. Hilter had desperately tried to prevent the US entry...in fact America had already substantially supported the Soviet Union and of of course Britain economically. In 1941 (before Pearl Harbor) the US Navy started actively to protect the convoys for Britian in the whole Western pacific, thereby attacking German submarines, who were explicedly forbidden to fire on US Navy ships (a situation the German submariners didn't like at all). After Pearl Harbor Hitler was convinced that the US had decided its course...Germany was allied with Imperial Japan after all. So he decided that there was only gain in declaring war on America...he hoped the bond between Japan and Germany would be strengthened.

The biggest chance to win the war was in 1941...during that year the Soviet Union nearly collapsed. Probably if Mussolini hadn't started his campaign in southeastern Europe, with the result that the Wehrmacht had to come to his rescue and Barbarossa had begun a few weeks earlier the whole thing might very well have been a success. But as it happened, the onset of winter stopped the German advance and gave the Soviets time to recover. In 1942 the Germans advanced further but had more and more trouble with their elongated supply lines...the advance was halted in december 1942, from 1943 onwarts the war had changed from "Blitzkrieg" character to an endurance struggle, for which the Wehrmacht wasn't prepared at all. So the Soviets were the ones who advanced...

Had Hitler won in 1941, he had turned on Great Britain again, although I personally believe that, if the British had sued for peace, that would have been it. Actually, the German populace would have demanded that the boys are brought home (did you know that, until 1942, Germanies economy was not set on war footing, was no war economy, that the producing of normal consumer goods exceeded those of war material? Hitler had never prepared for a long war...) France would have probably received an reversed "Versailles Vol.2" kind of treaty, but I believe the occupation would have ended.
Essentially, with the Sovietunion gone and Russia to the Urals controlled by Germany, he had achieved what he wanted and thought so important. The rest of his life Germany had probably spend finding out what sheer folly this whole idea was...probably terrorists and guerillas all the way from Poland to Russia.

Germany under Hitler hadn't been especially totalitarian until 1942, just because the Nazis simply hadn't had the time to form a true Soviet like totalitarian system (6 years from 1933 to 1939, actually Hitler was a quite modest "Chancellor" in the first year after his election, he started to mutate to "Führer" from 1934 onwards, that leaves just 5 (!) years of Nazi rule...a time of economic prosperity and foreign political achievement. The Nazi antisemitism seemed a small price to pay, since most Germans weren't jews...)
So while Germany still had quite a few free minds DESPITE of Nazi rule, who created and invented many things...the Nazis would have tried to perfect their control system, had they won the war. And, I think, that wouldn't have had positive effects on German creativity...

All in all, even with a stunning victory, Germany wouldn't have ruled the world. That is Allied propaganda and exaggeration. And I peronally believe it wouldn't have controlled Poland and Russia forever, either. In effect Hitler would have created some "Germanic-Slavic" apartheid state...and those apartheid systems have a tendany to fail over time.

Just my thoughts of course...and rather misplaced in this thread, too.
But what the hell. p-)

[Herrmannek]

What a ugly **** under that link. he you should put graphic content disclimer :)

[Herrmannek]

I'm sure Kitsune if Hitler would won the game there would be no more living Poles or Russians :) to guerila fight in short term after game.

[perdurabo]

Its almost sure that if Hitler wouldnt start with CCCP, Stalin would start with Nazis...
Hm, who told you that?
as far as i remember whole thing was set Stalin would attack Hitler in next few months even propaganda posters where made they waited in magazines until 43-45 :)

[MARINO]

GP

[Metak]

World's first operational turbojet fighter:
http://www.sepsy.de/Luftwaffe-jpg-Planes/me262-schwalbe.jpg
http://www.luft-art.com/images/models/me262a-l.jpg

The most technologicall advanced plane of its kind when it first appeared, this jet was too little, too late to save the Luftwaffe from defeat in WW II. The Me262 went into service late in 1944. Being so late in the war though, Germany could not afford the time to train pilots properly so the full potential of this marvelously engineered plane was never realized.

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/lme2621.htm


WWII jets and rockets:
http://www.ww2guide.com/jetrock.shtml

[-=P=-]

It seemed so that Hitler wanted only his Wunder-Waffen, conventional high-tech weapons which were their times ahead and should kill enemy systems because their are generations ahead of them... everyone waited for the wonder weapon which would bring Germany the victory but the time was too short and Americans and Russians could build much more propeller planes and light tanks with their recourses. IIRC from 44 or even already 43 the Germans saw their only chance by Hitler’s Wunder Waffen.

I know not much about the WWII but if Germany remained in Europe and Italians would hold their position without dumb ideas, Germany would defeat Russians and send them at least so much to the east to reach the Caucasus then the Germans would meet with their Iranian allies and so get access to Oil, after that also Iraq would join, then further to Pakistan and Afghanistan and meet with the Japanese in India. With a secure supply line over the Caucasus the Oil would flow Iran would secure the Caucasus and get Afghanistan, Pakistan and southern parts of Russia, Iraq would hold its position and capture Syria. The Russians would now get attacked also from the south and Germans would secure everything until the Urals, with some luck Japanese would have enough recourses to attack Soviets from the east. With the Oil Italia would capture south Eastern Europe with German help and over turkey join Iranian and Iraqis. With this scenario Soon the complete Soviet Union would be removed, the middle east captured with advance to North Africa, complete Asia would be under control and with so much recourses the Brits would fall very soon.

Germany would control most parts of western and northern Europe, to the east up to the Urals and even further east to Siberia joining there with Japanese in the east and Iranians in the south.

Italy would control most parts of south and south west Europe. Later also North Africa.

Parts of south, south-east and Eastern Europe would be under control of, Croatia, Hungary and Romania and maybe some western parts of turkey.

Iraq would control most of the southern parts of the Middle East, until west to the Mediterranean and Egypt.

Iran would get the area up to the Caucasus and east to middle Turkey. In the north east the area until Kazakhstan and in the east Afghanistan, Tajikistan and Pakistan. Maybe also parts of north western India would fall under Iranian control

Japan would have its borders up to India bordering there with Iran and parts of east Siberia bordering with Germany.

Now if Japanese wouldn’t have problems with Americans in their east they would really have come to India. When Russians were pulled back to the Caucasus by 1941 and Iran would have get help and then also Iraq. This could really have happened. Germans had to do too much, North Africa and south Eastern Europe was too much. The Brits could have been holded under control until Russians were pulled back and defeated, then with the new recourses England would have no chance.



But in the end America was too much to handle. ;)

[FLaKKeY]

some amazing concepts that were taken by the victors and slapped their names on it.. and claimed it was theirs..

[J-10]

Just to say wonderful! woot

So many original manuscript of modern aircrafts are from German.

[fdt]

MORE !!!
MORE !!!

[Rantanplan]

http://www.aeroscientists.org/images/scans/Guenther.jpg


http://www.tigersweat.com/images/slove07.jpg


;)

But............

http://www.luft46.com/jhart/jhsang-5.jpg

........thats a joke, right?

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

........thats a joke, right?

Ekhm... no ;)

http://www.luft46.com/misc/sanger.html

[He219]

No Joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/c/c9/Eugen_Sanger.jpg
Eugen Sänger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_S%E4nger)

In 1935 and 1936, he published articles on rocket-powered flight for the Austrian journal Flug (Flying). These attracted the attention of the Reichsluftfahrtministerium ("Reich Aviation Ministry" - RLM) who saw Sänger's ideas as a potential way to accomplish the goal of building a bomber that could strike the United States from Germany (the Amerika Bomber project).

Sänger agreed to lead a rocket development team in the Lüneburger Heide region in 1936. He gradually conceived a rocket-powered sled that would launch a bomber with its own rocket engines that would climb to the fringe of space and then "skip" along the upper atmosphere - not actually entering orbit, but able to cover vast distances in a series of sub-orbital hops. This remarkable design was called the Silbervogel ("Silverbird") and would have relied on its fuselage creating lift (as a lifting body) to carry it along its sub-orbital path. Sänger was assisted in this design by mathematician Irene Bredt, whom he married. Sänger also designed the rocket motors that the space-plane would use, which would need to generate 1 MN of thrust. In this design, he was the first to suggest using the rocket's fuel as a way of cooling the engine, by circulating it around the rocket nozzle before burning it in the engine.

By 1942, the RLM cancelled this project along with other more ambitious and theoretical designs in favour of concentrating on proven technologies. Sänger was sent to work for the Deutschen Versuchsanstalt für Segelflug ("German Gliding Research Institute" - DFS). There he did important work on ramjet technology until the end of World War II. After the conflict ended, he worked for the French government and in 1949 founded the Fédération Astronautique. Whilst in France, he was the subject of a botched attempt by Soviet agents to win him over. Stalin had become intrigued by reports of the Silbervogel design and sent his son, Vasili, and scientist Grigori Tokaty to convince him to come to the Soviet Union, but they failed to do so.

By 1954, Sänger had returned to Germany and three years later was directing a jet propulsion research institute in Stuttgart. Between 1961 and 1963 he acted as a consultant for Junkers in designing a ramjet-powered space-plane that never left the drawing board. Sänger's other theoretical innovations during this period were proposing means of using photons for interplanetary and interstellar spacecraft propulsion, including the solar sail.

He died in Berlin. His work on the Silbervogel would prove important to the X-15, X-20 Dyna-Soar, and ultimately Space Shuttle programmes.


http://www.luft46.com/misc/sang3.jpg
The diagram on the right is part of Dr. Eugen Sänger's original proposal and shows the expected flight path that his "Silverbird" would travel on a bomb run to New York City. Please note the skipping, roller coaster-like path the Sänger would take before landing....

http://www.luft46.com/misc/sang2.jpg
) Pressurized Cockpit 2) Oxidant Tanks 3) Fuel Tanks 4) High-Pressure Combustion Chamber of 100 Tons Thrust
5) Auxiliary Rocket Chambers 6) Wedge-Shaped Wing 7) Retracted Undercarriage 8) Free-Falling Bomb

http://ablecd.wz.cz/darkside/article/sanger-1.jpg

http://ablecd.wz.cz/darkside/article/sanger-2.jpg

http://ablecd.wz.cz/darkside/article/sanger-3.jpg

http://www.volga.ru/~TRAMP/misc/sang/sangerny.jpg

http://ablecd.wz.cz/darkside/article/sanger-4.jpg

http://ablecd.wz.cz/darkside/article/sanger-5.jpg





Some others:

http://www.betten-24.de/wesser1.jpg
http://www.betten-24.de/wesser2.jpg
Weserflug P.1003

http://www.betten-24.de/Ar_E_555-1.gif
Ar E 555-1

http://www.betten-24.de/Arado_555.jpg
http://www.betten-24.de/arado-555-27.jpg
Arado-Ar 555

http://www.betten-24.de/Ta183bt_vor_der_Insel_Usedom.jpg
Ta183bt vor der Insel Usedom im Luftkampf mit YB-49

http://www.betten-24.de/Heinkel_He_P.1078A.jpg
He P.1078A

http://www.betten-24.de/FW_Super_TL_basis_MIG_9.jpg
http://www.betten-24.de/FW-Super_TL_basis_MIG_9.jpg
FW-Super TL

[vryhpyammoadded]

Dr. Strangelove…
Still one of my all time favorite movies! Peter Sellers was great in every part he played in that movie. Anyway…

The old skip bomber concept is still alive and kicking.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/hypersoar.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/HypersoarHawaii.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/b-3_Hypersonic-1.jpg

[Rantanplan]

v-22-osprey :lol:

http://www.betten-24.de/wesser2.jpg

[Falco]

v-22-osprey :lol:

http://www.betten-24.de/wesser2.jpg

Canadair CL-84 Dynavert

http://www.exn.ca/news/images/1998/06/16/19980616-dynavert1b.jpg

Period: Postwar
Uses: Experimental
FirstFlight: 1965
Manufacturer: Canadair Ltd., Canada
WingSpan: 34 ft 8 in (10.6 m)
Length: 53 ft 7 1/2 in (16.3 m)
Height: 17 ft 1 1/2 in (5.2 m)
WeightEmpty: 8,775 lb (3,980 kg)
WeightGross: 14,500 lb (6,577 kg)
CruisingSpeed: 309 mph (497 km/h)
MaxSpeed: 321 mph (517 km/h)
RateClimb: 4,200 ft (1,280 m)/min
ServiceCeiling: Unknown
Range: 420 mi (677 km)
Power: two Lycoming T.53 Model LTC 1K-4C, 1500 hp, turboprop engines

from : http://www.exn.ca/FlightDeck/Aircraft/imagearchiveresult.cfm?Keyword=19980616-dynavert1b.jpg

[SR15]

wow, nice pics.