What If: Large Nuclear strike on the US

[Dragonscript]

An offshoot of this thread: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146467

Here is the scenario: The US has just been hit with a surprise large nuclear strike. The defenses of the US were able to stop most of the incoming nukes from hitting their targets but several hundred still impacted US soil. The US immediately responded with nukes of its own and hit the state that fired first. The military took some losses but they are still in the fight and sadly the US federal government survived. Major portions of the country are damaged, some cities are gone and there is no threat of invasion or a second nuclear strike. Emergency services are responding and have the situation in hand, as well as could be expected.

Facts:
Nukes were a mix of Ground blast, Air blast & EMP types
Military is diminished but largly intact
Federal government is intact
Significant damage to the country but not totaly destroyed
Little/no fear of invasion or 2nd strike

What does the US do to recover from this situation?

[BlackFlag]

This scenario is highly flawed and improbable.

if several hundred nukes hit the US but the military is largely intact, then that means the attacking country launched an attack against the civilian population of the US. In that case, there would likely be not adequate Emergency services in place.

However, given your scenario, I'd say coordinate with NATO and finish off the attacking country. As for the rest of the country? see the Fallout series of games :)

The fact is, unless you are using a fictional nation as the attacker, the only 2 nations really capable of such an attack would be Russia and China. If that is the case, then a full scale nuclear attack would most definately be aimed at military, government and industrial sites. An attack on the civilian population would be suicide, as the Russians or Chinese would surely know. the US would strike back against military and civilian targets. Both these nations are definately not stupid.

[BloodyTalon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7jKRDTg8m8

[The Mighty Quinn]

What would happen is that you and I would be dead.

[seraosha]

Thanks for the new thread, I appreciate it.

Well the first thing that comes to mind is the number of warheads and the amount of damage "several hundred" hitting the US would cause. We can also take into consideration the retaliatory strikes being a similar number...so just ballpark it, 600+ nuclear bombs going off...air burst, ground burst, and at sea...and probably a few thrown into near orbit to take out all the satellites.

We would be looking at catastrophic deaths in the 100,000,000s...and that's just the initial exchange. The following days and weeks would see more, from radiation sickness, burns, infections, illness, trauma, all the was that humans can suffer.

To make it easier to project ideas, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_war) is a good starting place for information.

*edit IronCross1985 (http://militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=7897) is correct, cities would not be the primary targets, but infrastructure, military, government, etc.

[1911-a1]

There will be a new government based in Cheyenne. Texas will be independent.
The flag is going to look like this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/92/jericho20new20flagnl6.jpg

If you want to know more I recommend you watch all episodes of the documentary show "Jericho".

[Ulytau]

“I don't know the weapons that will be used in the Thirth World War, but in the Forth men will use wood and stones.”

Albert Einstein

[BlackFlag]

^

not to be off topic but..

That show was pretty good. I hear sc-fi might pick it up for new episodes.

[1911-a1]

^

not to be off topic but..

That show was pretty good. I hear sc-fi might pick it up for new episodes.
Dude that's awesome. I have both seasons in HD, and I was thinking of watching it tonight. Sorry for the off topic btw.

[Mordoror]

What does the US do to recover from this situation?


if several hundred nukes hit the US but the military is largely intact, then that means the attacking country launched an attack against the civilian population of the US. In that case, there would likely be not adequate Emergency services in place.
100 % agree

if the targets are mainly civilian areas (let's say all of the main cities in CONUS) they what you can expect is CHAOS

millions of dead to be buried quicly before spreading of epidemies
millions of wounded that would die painfully and slowly because of no more health assistance capacbilities (no more medics/nurses/hospital or in any case not enough)

no more economy (Wall Street down, banks annihilated with the informatic counts)

no more production (millions of workers dead)

no more law

may be even no more food above local production (farmers may have food until stockpiles of seeds and fertilizer vanish, anyway urban areas not hit would not be able to be provided the food because of the disorganization of the transport)
beside that think that a lot of not directly hit areas would be contaminated making vegetables/milk/crop radioactive

disorder with starving people fleeing everywhere, bearing beginning of infectious diseases with them (and violence/looting/criminality)

the Hell .....

as somebody said , in case of a nuclear attack the lucky ones would be those that would die immediately....

[seraosha]

On the subject of food...

Unless it's in a can, there isn't any food.
And there won't be any food grown for at least a year.
Worldwide...that's with the scenario of "a couple hundred" for each side of the exchange.

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter#2007_study_on_global_nuclear_war)

[Invisigoth]

If you wanna see some people who have prepared for that, I recommend Louis Theroux's - Survivalists. Hilarious, scary and 'somewhat' disturbing.


Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep8efE6mIEY

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wngQ5nlPUXQ

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVPxSq6D-JM

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZ0CaeRqoI

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUsjQd4myc

[xav]

100 % agree

if the targets are mainly civilian areas (let's say all of the main cities in CONUS) they what you can expect is CHAOS

millions of dead to be buried quicly before spreading of epidemies
millions of wounded that would die painfully and slowly because of no more health assistance capacbilities (no more medics/nurses/hospital or in any case not enough)

no more economy (Wall Street down, banks annihilated with the informatic counts)

no more production (millions of workers dead)

no more law

may be even no more food above local production (farmers may have food until stockpiles of seeds and fertilizer vanish, anyway urban areas not hit would not be able to be provided the food because of the disorganization of the transport)
beside that think that a lot of not directly hit areas would be contaminated making vegetables/milk/crop radioactive

disorder with starving people fleeing everywhere, bearing beginning of infectious diseases with them (and violence/looting/criminality)

the Hell .....


And then sombies... or more like Ghouls and welcome to Fallout world...

[Hellfish]

Hate to break it to you, but Cheyenne is in the heart of nuke country... they're gonna get annihilated. Google Warren Air Force Base.

A lot of it depends on how many ground bursts vs. air bursts. Ground bursts are really only effective against hardened targets - Cheyenne Mountain, missile silos, the Pentagon, etc. Air bursts are best used against most other targets (cities, bases, industrial facilities).

A lot of it also depends on the kind of strike launched against us - total nuclear annihilation, counter-force (i.e. they targeted our nuclear/strategic capabilities, but largely left our civil, industrial and non-nuke military bases alone) or countervalue (i.e. city busting).

The good news is that airbursts don't have a lot of long-term fallout (fallout is mostly caused by radioactive dust and debris kicked up from ground bursts), and most of the radiation from them will be dissipated in the atmosphere (that said, nobody has ever detonated several hundred nukes at once, so it may very well overwhelm nature's ability to absorb it all).

[Lazy Lob]

How much of a threat is EMP? I've always believed that most civvie odds n sods were shielded. Faraday Cage shielding lark. Never mind mil hardware.

A bit like the neutron bomb. I was taught wax "stopped" neutrons.

[Mordoror]

I was taught wax "stopped" neutrons.certainly not
heavy neutrons have at least the same energy if no more than X-rays
they are going through any material except those with the higher density (lead will protect you but you will not be safe inside an APC so the wax .... hum)

[Dragonscript]

I agree with most of what everybody is saying but i want you think of the solution not the problem. What would the US need to do to recover.

Remember, the US government is still in charge, the military is still effective since a few US bases were able to avoid being hit and all our bases overseas were not touched. The amount and type of destruction would be random since the missile defense would not be able to stop all the incoming missiles. I'm trying to keep the damage nonspecific and the attacker undefined. The attack is much larger than a single weapon but much smaller than full annihilation.

[seraosha]

One significant air-burst at high enough altitude would destroy the US Civilian electronics...that includes cars, computers, phones, everything.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cd/EMP_areas.JPG

[seraosha]

I agree with most of what everybody is saying but i want you think of the solution not the problem. What would the US need to do to recover.

Without a concrete start point, and a measure of the subsequent damage, any solutions to a recovery are moot. At a certain threshold, there isn't anything to recover. Maybe if you could put forth a realistic damage/attack scenario, it would be easier to respond with what (I think) you are looking for.

[Lazy Lob]

certainly not
heavy neutrons have at least the same energy if no more than X-rays
they are going through any material except those with the higher density (lead will protect you but you will not be safe inside an APC so the wax .... hum)

Something to do with protons in wax and wax lenses. Cheap n cheerful shyte sort of stuff. Well there you go, learn something new every day.

[Mordoror]

Something to do with protons in wax and wax lenses. Cheap n cheerful shyte sort of stuff. Well there you go, learn something new every day.

I am not convinced ... but Try it .... and come back with photos to prove :)

more seriously have you any link because i am very very .... how to say ... doubtfull about that

[seraosha]

Remember at a certain point, citizens were encouraged to hide under their desks with folded pieces of wet newspaper on their heads...
link (http://www.booksattransworld.co.uk/billbryson/billBrysonAssets/galleryImages/americana/08.jpg)

Didn't make it any more effective than sticking your head between your legs and kissing your ass goodbye, but probably scored higher on the "feel good-o-meter"

[Hellfish]

I agree with most of what everybody is saying but i want you think of the solution not the problem. What would the US need to do to recover.

Remember, the US government is still in charge, the military is still effective since a few US bases were able to avoid being hit and all our bases overseas were not touched. The amount and type of destruction would be random since the missile defense would not be able to stop all the incoming missiles. I'm trying to keep the damage nonspecific and the attacker undefined. The attack is much larger than a single weapon but much smaller than full annihilation.

A lot of it depends on specifics. What was hit? How was it hit? How many were killed? What are the casualty projections for the next 6 months? Year? Five Years? Ten? All of these factors, and more, matter.

If you want, I can post some scans of the old Twilight 2000 game. It has some details about a hypothetical nuclear strike on the US and we can go from there.

[Dragonscript]

seraosha: I think of something and post it soon.


A lot of it depends on specifics. What was hit? How was it hit? How many were killed? What are the casualty projections for the next 6 months? Year? Five Years? Ten? All of these factors, and more, matter.

If you want, I can post some scans of the old Twilight 2000 game. It has some details about a hypothetical nuclear strike on the US and we can go from there.

Sure, go ahead, that would be as good as a spot to start as anywhere.

Also, i love Twilight 2000. I still have my photo copied core book at the house somewhere.

Edit: Apparently the 3rd edition for it was just released this month, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_2000#New_Edition_--_Twilight:_2013. I'll have to check that out.

[Skutatos]

If there is little fear of invasion, then I would assume the military would focus primarily on survivors. Search the impact sites focusing on buildings most like to protect human life(large basements or underground complexes, subways, etc...), ignore the rest. Finding people in a good state of health would be first priority, the rest are ****ed anyways. Also scan the radios for emergency signals, many people own radios and would be able to report their locations if they survived.

Set up evacuation centers for refugees in areas relatively safe from fallout, survivors could be flown in as well. Record names, and get as much information as possible from survivors such as the names of family members/loved ones and continually cross reference with other evacuation centers, if nothing else it gives the impression that something is being done to find their loved ones.

Find out how the hell you are going to feed everyone.

If the military is left largely intact, the ball would be in our court. We could threaten to nuke the **** out of who ever attacked us UNLESS they give us food, humanitarian relief etc...

Start making babies.

[Lazy Lob]

I am not convinced ... but Try it .... and come back with photos to prove :)

more seriously have you any link because i am very very .... how to say ... doubtfull about that

I'm not putting my nuts in a vice for anyone, let alone you. I'm not a physisist but Google is your friend. Something about neutrons having a similar mass as the protons in paraffin wax and one replacing the other. Mind you it may all be gobbledeegook. It was along time ago.

[seraosha]

How did I know Twillight2000 was going to get mentioned?

Yep, looks like we all played/play it.
So........Gamma World, anyone?p-)

[Britboy]

Ambio ran a few pieces on this in 1982 and 89 (or was it 87?)

http://www.jstor.org/stable/4312774?seq=2&Search=yes&term=ambio&list=hide&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dambio%26wc%3Don%26dc%3DAll%2BDisciplines&item=25&ttl=6310&returnArticleService=showArticle&resultsServiceName=doBasicResultsFromArticle

Thats a projected fallout map for CONUS after things get hit... looking at that map I'd say head for Canadia...

If you have access to JSTOR/academic journals online, look for Ambio.

And also look for other strategic studies type journals, they love this ****.

BB

[Mordoror]

I'm not putting my nuts in a vice for anyone, let alone you. I'm not a physisist but Google is your friend. Something about neutrons having a similar mass as the protons in paraffin wax and one replacing the other. Mind you it may all be gobbledeegook. It was along time ago.

you are somewhat right (i salute you and admit my defeat Sir :))

Neutron radiation protection relies on radiation shielding. In comparison with conventional ionizing radiation based on photons or charged particles, neutrons are absorbed in light nuclei, so large mass of hydrogen-rich material is needed. The most effective materials are eg. water, polyethylene, paraffin wax, or concrete, where considerable amount of water molecules is chemically bound to the cement. The light atoms serve to slow down the neutrons by elastic scattering, so they can then be absorbed by nuclear reactions. However, gamma radiation is often produced in such reactions, so additional shielding has to be provided to absorb it. (in fact only an half defeat p-)woot)

[SoSo]

In Twilight 2000 the chaos following the bombardment saw the rise of at least two U.S. governments, each claiming to be the lawful one, plus an unknown number of secessionist regimes. In Jericho, the same thing occurred.
If the U.S. government holds together, our armed forces overseas will be brought home to restore order and bring help to the nation. Friendly nations will send troops to the U.S., to aid in these tasks (Mexico, Canada and other allies sent military personnel to help us after Hurricane Katrina).
I'd like to believe the world would be so horrified by what had happened that every country would agree to rid itself of weapons of mass destruction, and promise never to develop more. But a nuclear war might have the opposite effect, making more countries seek nukes, to deter such an attack.
It would be nice to think Americans would stand together after the war. But it would probably be only a matter of time before the states that had come through almost unscathed would start to complain about having their money and resources taken by the Federal government to pay for the reconstruction of devastated areas. If a Democratic administration was in office before the attack, Republicans might blame liberal weakness and timidity for the strike. And if a Republican had been President, Democrats might point an accusing finger at warmongering conservatives. But I would hope not.
One thing is for sure, the U.S. would emerge from the war as a second-rate nation, its superpower status gone, maybe forever. We would become an importer of food, rather than an exporter. Americans would no longer be known as the most obese people on the planet. Diabetes and hypertension would no longer be regarded as serious health threats to our people; we would be worried about radiation, cholera, famine and thirst instead.
I wonder which nations would rise to greatness, to take our place as a world power? Canada? Australia, Argentina, Brazil? India?

[Lazy Lob]

...........

You are a true sport, of the best sort. I was just relying on faded memory. I've also wondered why no one stockpiles neutron bombs. But that may be another story.

[Britboy]

I thought the neutron bomb was originally conceived as a large-scale anti-armour wpn over Germany.

Since that role has just about gone, no more neutron bombs?

[Lazy Lob]

I thought the neutron bomb was originally conceived as a large-scale anti-armour wpn over Germany.

Since that role has just about gone, no more neutron bombs?

Tritium is also a bit of a bugger and fizzles out. Not enough bang for the taxpaying buck so to speak.

[Createdeemcee]

There will be a new government based in Cheyenne. Texas will be independent.
The flag is going to look like this:



hahaha, I miss that show, Yes I guarantee it would be much like that. I would expect to see major leader ship fights for who would run things. it would be survival of the fitest.

[Mordoror]

I thought the neutron bomb was originally conceived as a large-scale anti-armour wpn over Germany.

Since that role has just about gone, no more neutron bombs?

yes it was created for that but had one major flaw : irradiating armor crew would have in most case not be lethal immediately but after several hours may be several days (with some strange effects like the Walking Ghost Phase : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_ghost_phase)

knowing that they were doomed the ennemy soldiers would have fighted without restrain (or so was feared)

[seraosha]

Walking Ghost Phase

Jesus. When I try to explain to my teenager about the constant fear we grew up under in the 80's of impending attack, I just can't get the horror across...but that might do the trick. And no, I'm not going to have her watch "Threads" or "The day after". Scary ****.

[Trouble]

An offshoot of this thread: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=146467

Here is the scenario: The US has just been hit with a surprise large nuclear strike. The defenses of the US were able to stop most of the incoming nukes from hitting their targets but several hundred still impacted US soil. The US immediately responded with nukes of its own and hit the state that fired first. The military took some losses but they are still in the fight and sadly the US federal government survived. Major portions of the country are damaged, some cities are gone and there is no threat of invasion or a second nuclear strike. Emergency services are responding and have the situation in hand, as well as could be expected.

Facts:
Nukes were a mix of Ground blast, Air blast & EMP types
Military is diminished but largly intact
Federal government is intact
Significant damage to the country but not totaly destroyed
Little/no fear of invasion or 2nd strike

What does the US do to recover from this situation?

Well, thats easy, remember Katrina ? Well, That plus or minus the water, plus fallout, the public's fear of it happening again at any minute this time to them (at least for the first few days / weeks), the worst parts of the 1993 LA riots and it will all be happening at the same time at Hundreds of separate locations *using your hypothetical number from above).

I also do not think you could reasonably rule out the threat of a follow on ground invasion, second strike, or other military actions. Even if that was not the intent or plans of the initial aggressor, others might get the idea that taking advantage of the situation is to their advantage.

We would be cleaning that big of a mess for years and decades the initial chaos would last for weeks at best if not for months or for years in some parts of the country.

I am basing this on how long it took us to get a good handle on the aftermath of Katrina. That was one relatively small area of the country that we had advanced warning was going to be destroyed and under peace time conditions. With all those advantages in our pocket, it was still a monumental undertaking, a long hard miserable mess to deal with and in many ways a cluster-f**k and media circus.

Now throw in that there would be at best about a 30 minute warning for a nuke strike, then add in all the other bad stuff I mentioned and leave some wiggle room for a whole number of unpleasant things that have not even thought of.

[usa320]

hahaha, I miss that show, Yes I guarantee it would be much like that. I would expect to see major leader ship fights for who would run things. it would be survival of the fitest.

I disagree... Maybe on a local scale authority would break down, but if anyone would survive a catastrophic nuclear strike, it would be a functioning US government and military command authority.

Serious time and money was spent since the 60's perfecting continuity of government plans, with redundancy heavily incorporated to make sure that 1) some form of civilian federal authority would exist after such an event and 2) The military would maintain sufficient command and control to launch retaliatory strikes.... assuming all missiles, subs and aircraft havent been wiped out.

[BlackFlag]

Jesus. When I try to explain to my teenager about the constant fear we grew up under in the 80's of impending attack, I just can't get the horror across...but that might do the trick. And no, I'm not going to have her watch "Threads" or "The day after". Scary ****.

I know the danger isn't nearly as immanent as in the 80's when I was a small child, but even today I sometimes will be laying in bed at night thinking that at any possible moment the air raid sirens could go off and the EBS would be warning of a nuclear launch.

I think it's still a frightening possibility.

[Britboy]

I disagree... Maybe on a local scale authority would break down, but if anyone would survive a catastrophic nuclear strike, it would be a functioning US government and military command authority.

Serious time and money was spent since the 60's perfecting continuity of government plans, with redundancy heavily incorporated to make sure that 1) some form of civilian federal authority would exist after such an event and 2) The military would maintain sufficient command and control to launch retaliatory strikes.... assuming all missiles, subs and aircraft havent been wiped out.

See, this is what I don't get about this NCA/COG thingymajigger.

El Presidente is going to be a high priority target - one way or another, whether it be sniper, polonium, suitcase nuke, whatever - he quite possibly will buy it. Lets not forget he may be struck before hostilities open so theres no chance to whisk him away - remember when JFK got hit people thought WWIII was about to kick off.

Imagine hits on many govt ministers and other key figures through which nuclear release authority passes.

If you are #54 on the list of 'nuc bosses' how do you know the 53 people above you, who I'd think would all be geographically dispersed for survivability, are dead? Comms would not be good. Do you order a release anyway? What if you order a general release and someone above you was still alive and, o I don't know, working on the principle of a withold or some other limited counterforce plan? What then?

How about at the missile end, how do they know to take your orders and that above you is dead? What if they take your orders and someone else is really boss? What if everyone else is dead except no one knows it, so they won't even take your orders when you are the last one to be able to take the decision?

How you going to communicate with your submarines now your ELF antennas have in all likelihood been taken out of action by the en?

What about EM interference more generally from all the crazy nuc explosions in the atmosphere?

How are those big continuity of govt bunkers going to help when people know of them? You can't keep a massive place like that secret, so whats the point in it, surely it'll just get hit by something larger.

Whats the point in the airborne command planes beyond the time they can stay aloft? Nowhere to refuel left, what do you do after the first hours of an exchange?

Comd and control in a nuc environment - Not easy.

[Britboy]

I know the danger isn't nearly as immanent as in the 80's when I was a small child, but even today I sometimes will be laying in bed at night thinking that at any possible moment the air raid sirens could go off and the EBS would be warning of a nuclear launch.

I think it's still a frightening possibility.

I agree.

Hopefully there would be a period of tension beforehand when preparations could be made.

However that may not be the case.

If there was any warning, running to your nearest manhole cover or under-road culvert and getting underground would be my No1 priority.

With terrorism there may be no warning at all I should think.

A Bad Thing, most definitely, however it pans out.

[RECON DOC]

Seriously. You guys make me laugh.
You can intellectualize about this all day. The truth of the matter is that every person on the planet would be totally ****ed, survivor or no. And the spawn of those survivors will be as well for generations. That is if they don't die off as well from radiation poisoning.

Snap out of it.

[Britboy]

Hey my 'quick in the sewers' plan wasn't meant to be a sustainable plan for the rest of my life :p just a kneejerk reaction.

I've no doubt at all nuc warfare would be The $hittiest Thing That'd Ever Happen.

Had no idea a nuc winter was to last so long either, sounds like a decade or more from the 2007 study on that wiki link.

I do recommend the Ambio articles from 82 and 87/89 if you have the chance, just search for Ambio on JSTOR.org if you have access, or anywhere else that holds journals. Nuc warfare was not going to be a pleasant experience at all.

[drunken sailor]

Now you all see why missile defense is a high priority. We are not going to launch against anyone unless we are hit first. We sure as hell do not want to get hit. Me thinks the U.S. has had a good missile defense system for awhile now or they would not have moved all the defenses away from the cities like they did in the 70s.

[Bringer of Greater Things]

Alas, Babylon was a good book.

[Calanen]

Serious time and money was spent since the 60's perfecting continuity of government plans, with redundancy heavily incorporated to make sure

Serious time and and money *still* is spent on this stuff. The Army COOP or Continuity of Operations Plan.

[Hellfish]

Now you all see why missile defense is a high priority. We are not going to launch against anyone unless we are hit first. We sure as hell do not want to get hit. Me thinks the U.S. has had a good missile defense system for awhile now or they would not have moved all the defenses away from the cities like they did in the 70s.

The concept of MAD is lost on you, isn't it?

The city defenses went away because they were obsolete and they couldn't stop an incoming missile. There were more effective alternatives to intercepting any bombers that came in as well.

[Skutatos]

I thought the neutron bomb was originally conceived as a large-scale anti-armour wpn over Germany.

Since that role has just about gone, no more neutron bombs?

They have many purpouses, such as: area denial through intense radiation, destroying biological material while doing minimal damage to infrastructure, rapid death from radiation at greater ranges etc...

They have the capability to overcome the radiation protection of armoured vehicles however, and would have been effective in an anti-armour role, not sure how they would do against some of today's tanks.

[FlintHillBilly]

. The military took some losses but they are still in the fight and sadly the US federal government survived.

What does the US do to recover from this situation?


Well i would assume they would first get rid of people who make communist comments like yours :|. Then its what ever they feel necessary to survive. By the way what do you mean by this comment?

[Calanen]

Well i would assume they would first get rid of people who make communist comments like yours :|. Then its what ever they feel necessary to survive. By the way what do you mean by this comment?

Lighten up Francis.

[FlintHillBilly]

Lighten up Francis.

Im only teasing, trying to desipher what he ment by the comment, could have very well been a typo. Lets see if he explains.

[Johnny_H02]

Seriously. You guys make me laugh.
You can intellectualize about this all day. The truth of the matter is that every person on the planet would be totally ****ed, survivor or no. And the spawn of those survivors will be as well for generations. That is if they don't die off as well from radiation poisoning.

Snap out of it. Finally a statement I can agree with in this thread.

[Calanen]

If there was any warning, running to your nearest manhole cover or under-road culvert and getting underground would be my No1 priority.


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/480/coyotewu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah that would work.....

[vryhpyammoadded]

Well back in the old days when we were 30 min away from an 8000 megaton exchange between the US and Soviets, one could expect nearly everywhere east of the Rockies enjoying an average 10k Rad bath over two weeks from fallout. This can be easily handled by those prepared and willing to tough it out but seeing 99.999% are not. Can they deal without civilization? Note: this is figuring on the ICBM silos eating a lot of ground impacts.

What sort of exchange are you talking about? How may megatons over how many targets? How spread out? The simulation depends on this to be even remotely accurate.

One nuke would equate to a lot of trouble for the people who did it and hardly a hiccup in the national economy as the war economy would kick in as we devoured another nation or three.

A few dozen nukes in the right places would also dump us into war mode, possibly internally, and lord forbid anyone get in our way. American would recover in two decades as something very frightening if nuclear escalation didn’t ensue.

A hundred or so would lead to one hell of a mess and recovery in a couple generations or so if things stop there.

Anything more eventually equals total exchange with someone else with too many nukes and we live some brief Hollywierd pochiplx Road Warrior thing as the remaining industrialized nations inherit the planet and repopulate our lands in a few decades.

About ten minutes down the road there’s a big harbor full of fancy yachts owned by people up north who’ll all be dead in a few moments considering a large exchange. I enjoy sailing and would most likely dust off the old Kevlar, load up the M-14, pass out my other gear to my buddies that need it and raid the local markets for supplies we don't have, then I'd take me a nice big sloop or ketch about 65ft, load my family and some friends up and head south. The Caribbean would be nice or maybe I’d set off for Brazil. Screw sitting around dying slow pulling out hair and teeth while picking at beta burns and sucking in Strontium 90.

I still have a crate of all the TW2000 stuff somewhere, 2300AD too. GDW was an excellent company. To bad they passed on.
http://www.holidaywest.com/nukehi.jpg

[deagle]

i'd want a refund of all my tax dollars that are supposed to protect and prevent that from happening. depending on where we're hit we might be dead, so it might not matter

[Martel]

There will be a new government based in Cheyenne. Texas will be independent.
The flag is going to look like this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/92/jericho20new20flagnl6.jpg

If you want to know more I recommend you watch all episodes of the documentary show "Jericho".
This came first to my mind when I read the title ;)

[BugHunt]

A pertinant article....

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/20/futureofwar.jpg

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/11/***-and-war-exc.html



Sad thing is nukes might even be one of the "nicer" WMDs well be facing within the next 50 years....

[Britboy]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/480/coyotewu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah that would work.....

Got a better plan if you are caught out in the open with no time to prep anything? Hardly the best chance of survival but are you telling me you'd do nowt?

Oh don't tell me, you've already got an underground bunker prepped with 5yrs of supplies, haven't you?

[Britboy]

Well i would assume they would first get rid of people who make communist comments like yours :|. Then its what ever they feel necessary to survive. By the way what do you mean by this comment?


I love the way that anyone who disagrees with what a certain administration says, or even with the group-think of the time, becomes 'communist'. Not just 'anti-whatever', but instantly pushed over to the other extreme of the political spectrum...

If I disagree with my housemate who sadly spends 20hrs a day on his computer and say he needs to spend less time gaming, does that put me in the same league as the Iranian Ayatollah in 1984 who banned videotapes throughout the country because he didn't figure they were compatible with Islamic revolution? Does it put me in the same league as the Taliban who wanted a return to more primitive, medieval culture?

Like fvck it does, you can hold an alternate viewpoint without being the extreme opposite, its called dissent, believe it or not its good for us, our freedom of speech, and is actually what used to separate us from the Second-World countries - nontotalitarianism. Challenging peoples freedom of speech as you have tried is actually remarkably a trait of communist states - how ironic, eh!

[DID]

Us govt with a small amount of surviving soldiers are going for holiday in the desert and meet the childrens of the survivors of this war:
http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/nmedia/18/63/30/63/18878155.jpg

nice scenario for an horror movie.

[Britboy]

Argh my god its that one out of the Goonies

He's going to truffleshuffle us all to death!!!

[FlintHillBilly]

I love the way that anyone who disagrees with what a certain administration says, or even with the group-think of the time, becomes 'communist'. Not just 'anti-whatever', but instantly pushed over to the other extreme of the political spectrum...

If I disagree with my housemate who sadly spends 20hrs a day on his computer and say he needs to spend less time gaming, does that put me in the same league as the Iranian Ayatollah in 1984 who banned videotapes throughout the country because he didn't figure they were compatible with Islamic revolution? Does it put me in the same league as the Taliban who wanted a return to more primitive, medieval culture?

Like fvck it does, you can hold an alternate viewpoint without being the extreme opposite, its called dissent, believe it or not its good for us, our freedom of speech, and is actually what used to separate us from the Second-World countries - nontotalitarianism. Challenging peoples freedom of speech as you have tried is actually remarkably a trait of communist states - how ironic, eh!


My comment about communist comments where about as serious as this thread is.

[seraosha]

We might as well admit it...this is really a fanboi thread for twilight 2000.
I'm cool with that.

Suggest a topic name change and move to /ot.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Awe come on people. The pochyplix ain’t all that bad. Hollywood says so. p-)
Hell, I’d enjoy dodging a few Kriegs and horse clans to hit on a chick with two belly buttons. Hit me with the pain stick baby, yeh!

Just beware the fallouts in their shelters and don’t eat the gruel.

[cobra25]

I suggest that all interested read this.
Truth is stranger (and more interesting) than fiction.

all the major western intel agencies were in on this.
Titled "Global Trends 2025: A Transformed World (http://www.dni.gov/nic/PDF_2025/2025_Global_Trends_Final_Report.pdf)"

http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_2025_project.html

[SoSo]

I love the way that anyone who disagrees with what a certain administration says, or even with the group-think of the time, becomes 'communist'.

Calling someone a "communist" or a "fascist" or "Nazi" is the ultimate cheap shot. It's a way of dismissing their argument without having to consider it. Once you've labelled someone with whom you disagree a "communist", you've put them beyond the pale of rational discourse. You've branded that person a fanatic. You no longer have to listen to anything they say.

[Britboy]

I love the way that anyone who disagrees with what a certain administration says, or even with the group-think of the time, becomes 'communist'.

Calling someone a "communist" or a "fascist" or "Nazi" is the ultimate cheap shot. It's a way of dismissing their argument without having to consider it. Once you've labelled someone with whom you disagree a "communist", you've put them beyond the pale of rational discourse. You've branded that person a fanatic. You no longer have to listen to anything they say.

And thats why it's pump.

Far better to engage in the debate and prove to them just why their standpoint is wank! Much more amusing, arguments for fun! p-)

[kartveli2]

Hitting a few hundreds would cause depopulation in USA i assume.

[seraosha]

I love the way that anyone who disagrees with what a certain administration says, or even with the group-think of the time, becomes 'communist'.

Calling someone a "communist" or a "fascist" or "Nazi" is the ultimate cheap shot. It's a way of dismissing their argument without having to consider it. Once you've labelled someone with whom you disagree a "communist", you've put them beyond the pale of rational discourse. You've branded that person a fanatic. You no longer have to listen to anything they say.

Shut up commie.

[LaoSexMachine]

I will up armour the 350 and drive around Houston looking for shyt.

[Calanen]

Got a better plan if you are caught out in the open with no time to prep anything? Hardly the best chance of survival but are you telling me you'd do nowt?

Oh don't tell me, you've already got an underground bunker prepped with 5yrs of supplies, haven't you?

Nah I seriously dont care for the same reason I'm not afraid of flying. So we die, big deal.

[Britboy]

Nah I seriously dont care for the same reason I'm not afraid of flying. So we die, big deal.

Part of me applauds this laidback attitude.

Part of me thinks we've got a responsibility to survive to carry things on. Even if the remainder of our life was ****ty, doesn't mean to say things couldn't be recovered for future generations.

M'eh.

Alls I know is a lot of people who don't seem too bothered about hurt/losing/death, suddenly go all-out and hang on 'for dear life' with all they've got when the event happens and the bloods up. Perhaps the fight or flight instinct, and human nature, is preprogrammed and can't really be changed by reasoned thought you've already had.

A lot of people say things like 'I'd rather die than have <whatever> happen to me'. But when whatever does happen, do they commit suicide? Nah, they work around it, overcome it, don't give in, largely.

[JB1628]

There will be a new government based in Cheyenne. Texas will be independent.
The flag is going to look like this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/92/jericho20new20flagnl6.jpg

If you want to know more I recommend you watch all episodes of the documentary show "Jericho".
Allied states of America for the win! It's a shame that the show got canceled because it was awesome.

[RICHICOQUI]

We been ready for a long time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixy5FBLnh7o

[Constantin]

There will be a new government based in Cheyenne. Texas will be independent.
The flag is going to look like this:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/92/jericho20new20flagnl6.jpg

If you want to know more I recommend you watch all episodes of the documentary show "Jericho".
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2007/02/18/obama/
Lenta.ru - one of the popular news-site in Russia.
I think the editors of this news-site, have a realy good sence of humor.^)