Israeli troops fight Jewish settlers in Hebron

[Fade]

Israeli troops fight Jewish settlers in Hebron
Dec 4 11:28 AM US/Eastern
By NASSER SHIYOUKHI
Associated Press Writer

HEBRON, West Bank (AP) - Rioting by Jewish settlers is spreading in the West Bank after Israeli soldiers forcibly removed about 250 extremists from a disputed house in the center of the West Bank city of Hebron. The riots erupted Thursday after Israeli troops hurled tear gas and stun grenades to repel settlers pelting them with rocks, eggs and chemicals as they hauled the hard-liners out of the Hebron house.

Violence quickly spread to other parts of the West Bank. Settlers set fires around two Palestinian homes, and Palestinians reported one person injured by settler gunfire.

Right-wing activists also blocked the main road to Jerusalem, and scuffled with police who tried to disperse them. The army declared the entire Hebron region a "closed military zone," barring nonresidents.Source.... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94RVGA80&show_article=1&catnum=0)

[kahn267]

These extremists should be thrown in Jail
they are all a bunch of psychos and they really **** the peace process entirely

[Mr.Flint]

These extremists should be thrown in Jail
they are all a bunch of psychos and they really **** the peace process entirely
What peace process?
The one that exists only in the inflamed imagination of the openly Leftist Supreme Court and Olmert who created, in a sense, those "extremists", who are called so for being patriots of their country?

This action is an absolute profanation of justice, and ideals of the nation, and leads to nothing but civil war.
They should not have been removed from Hebron, for any reason.
Especially not for placating Palis, and their foreign supporters.

[RoyB]

I think whats going on in Hebron is a disgrace for us.
Not because what the settlers believe or what they think, but because they dare to raise their hands on soldiers and officers, because of this they should be in jail.
fvck them.

[vinny_121_ND]

I think whats going on in Hebron is a disgrace for us.
Not because what the settlers believe or what they think, but because they dare to raise their hands on soldiers and officers, because of this they should be in jail.
fvck them.

I agree. They should be in jail. Just like if they were attacking a police officer and resisting arrest. The peace process is very fragile, and their actions against palestinians is not helping build better relations.

[bbsh]

The settlers arent helping out the situation, thats obvious..

But i think some of the blame has to go to the Israeli govt (current, and past) for letting it get to the situation today..

[Ordie]

I'm sure the Arab locals are watching this with bemusement.

[Elemental666]

I think whats going on in Hebron is a disgrace for us.
Not because what the settlers believe or what they think, but because they dare to raise their hands on soldiers and officers, because of this they should be in jail.
fvck them.

100%.

Nothing pisses me off more than this crap. Also, this:





Settlers to Ethiopian troops: ******s don't expel Jews

Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent report rising number of racially motivated verbal attacks from Hebron youths; Druze officers also suffer racist remarks

Danny Adino Ababa
Published: 12.04.08, 11:39 / Israel News

Not only do they serve long and tiring hours in the reserve forces, and not only are they forced to deal with violent clashes with settlers, but now, Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent are also faced with rising racism.

"******s don't expel Jews! This isn't what we brought you to Israel for!" are just some of the degrading slurs Border Guard officers reported hearing from masked settlers.



During the violent clashes between Israeli forces and settlers in Hebron on Tuesday "a bunch of veiled people started yelling at us: Who are you to expel us from our home? An Ethiopian does not expel a Jew! A ****** does not expel a Jew!" one Border Guard officer of Ethiopian descent recounted.

"I just didn't know what to do with myself," he said.

Officers 'deeply offended' by remarks

And it turns out this was not the only such incident to take place. Another officer reported that while arriving to make an arrest about a week and-a-half ago, a group of youths verbally attacked him saying, "Who told you to come and evacuate us? You Ethiopians. What are you, this State's ******s? Olmert's ******s?"

The officers said they were deeply offended by these remarks, but stressed that the ones making them were settler youths coming from outside of Hebron, and not the residents of the Jewish settlement or Kiryat Arba, who have treated them with respect.

Border Guard sources reported that racist remarks were also made against Druze soldiers. "We knew that this would happen so we instructed our officers in advance," said a source.

"We harshly condemn those extremists that bring a bad name to an entire public by using racial slurs against Border Guard fighters that spend night and day protecting residents of the West Bank.

"As part of the preparations for the mission the fighters were instructed to ignore such comments and carry out their mission with the utmost professionalism."

Zvi Zinger contributed to this report
Ynet (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3633163,00.html).

That's really, really low.

[Givati575]

What peace process?
The one that exists only in the inflamed imagination of the openly Leftist Supreme Court and Olmert who created, in a sense, those "extremists", who are called so for being patriots of their country?

This action is an absolute profanation of justice, and ideals of the nation, and leads to nothing but civil war.
They should not have been removed from Hebron, for any reason.
Especially not for placating Palis, and their foreign supporters.

yeah i really felt the patriotism when i risked my life defending theirs and all i got were stones, and cursed out. My own people calling me a nazi? These people are total outlaws, they will have it only their way, if the government thinks different it's unacceptable to them and they cause problems.

Just last year for the 40th time or so the police were ordered to demolish a synagogue the jews of kiryat arba built on palestinian terrirory, when the police came and took the place down, the next day the jews were back rebuilding and taking out their anger on the palestinians by driving through town spray painting their houses and throwing rocks.

[Andrew Chalmers]

This action is an absolute profanation of justice, and ideals of the nation, and leads to nothing but civil war.

Is it just to ignore a court order to vacate a building that you have no title? Is it just to be a squatter?

I didn't realize it was the "ideal" of the Israeli state to ignore its Israel courts.

[LRPV]

Barak was in negotiation with the settlers when the troops moved in to evacuate the house. The house has contentious title and a judicial finding on ownership has not yet been reached.

This mess has been fired for political reasons, there was no need to exacerbate this situation.

This bubbling and frothing at the mouth by some indicates the level of willingness for some Israelis to undermine their own interests.

[Carib]

Orthodox anything usually sucks

[Kletterbuxe]

What peace process?
The one that exists only in the inflamed imagination of the openly Leftist Supreme Court and Olmert who created, in a sense, those "extremists", who are called so for being patriots of their country?

This action is an absolute profanation of justice, and ideals of the nation, and leads to nothing but civil war.
They should not have been removed from Hebron, for any reason.
Especially not for placating Palis, and their foreign supporters.

If these people really represent your Ideals, than good night...

[Kletterbuxe]

Orthodox anything usually sucks

Couldn´t agree more. People who belive to have the ultimate truth scare me.

[LRPV]

Orthodox anything usually sucks

Try to address the topic rather than your religious preferences. This thread is already a pile of dried leaves...

[LRPV]

Couldn´t agree more. People who belive to have the ultimate truth scare me.

I thought you said Goodnight? This thread is about the politics of the forced evacuation of residents, not religious creed.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

I thought you said Goodnight? This thread is about the politics of the forced evacuation of residents, not religious creed.
These acts are done by religious fanatics, not secular Israelis.

While the Palestinians aren't angels themselves and frequently miss opportunity to opportunity to have peace these settlers are just the worst. Although its not clear whether all these settlers are from Hebron, the settler community there has some serious far right lunatics. I say dismantle the whole thing.

[LRPV]

Olmert voter huh?

[vinny_121_ND]

I hope no israeli soldiers were injured. When acid is thrown at them, it's just horrifying to think of the consequences.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081204/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_disputed_house

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Olmert voter huh?
I'm not even Israeli :bash:

You'd rather make some political statement about Barak then to condemn these religious fanatics. The same ones who fought against Israeli troops. Sickening.

[LRPV]

I'm not even Israeli :bash:

You'd rather make some political statement about Barak then to condemn these religious fanatics. The same ones who fought against Israeli troops. Sickening.


Given your avatar, the Olmerting was a political comment.

There are actually different groups involved. Those who brought ill attention upon the movement were condemned by others. However you and some others seem to base your opinion on headlines in left wing media.

Did you know an Arab sold the house to a Jew? Did you know that the matter has not yet been settled in the courts? Yet the Government deployed the Border Police and Army.

The Barak/Abbas coalition are fighting for their political lives, fighting to the last Jew in Judea and Samaria.

Finally, at no time have I commented favourably upon injuring Government officials. As an ex-serviceman I empathise with the plight of the Border Police and IDF, they are fulfilling their role in highly sensitive circumstances.

[Kaplanr]

LRPV, even if I accept your explanation, that does not excuse the racism and hate displayed towards the Police, Border Police and the Army. To then go and foment a pogrom on the nearby Palestinians is opportunism and inexcusable. Vis-a-vis the state they are Naturei Karta without the 17th Century Polish and Dutch clothing. They are at this point extra-state actors and should be treated as common criminals and thugs.

My experiences there 20 years ago mimic Givati 575's, they looked down on us and they looked for any opportunity to bully the local Arabs. They might as well be in armed camps in Iowa spouting white supremacist blather.

[timetraveller]

These extremists should be thrown in Jail
they are all a bunch of psychos and they really **** the peace process entirely

End of the day ... You can't blame them for standing there Ground ..

[LRPV]

LRPV, even if I accept your explanation, that does not excuse the racism and hate displayed towards the Police, Border Police and the Army. To then go and foment a pogrom on the nearby Palestinians is opportunism and inexcusable.

This part I agree with entirely. Though the latter for different reasons. I wonder what your views are on the ongoing attacks on Israelis in Judea & Samaria. As I have stated previously, this situation has been a political football, and not just by Barak.

How do you get Naturie Karta from this lot? No Israel versus Greater Israel? The analogy might be a bit harsh... I don't agree with settler violence against the State but at least they agree there should be a State. Naturei Karta have more in common with the Arabs in Hebron.

[Andrew Chalmers]

There are actually different groups involved. Those who brought ill attention upon the movement were condemned by others. However you and some others seem to base your opinion on headlines in left wing media.

Did you know an Arab sold the house to a Jew? Did you know that the matter has not yet been settled in the courts?

So the Israeli High Court had not ordered the settlers to leave the building?

[LRPV]

So the Israeli Supreme Court had not ordered the settlers to leave the building?

Nice twist..I referred to the finding regarding ownership of the title to the building. Two different issues.

[Andrew Chalmers]

Nice twist..I referred to the finding regarding ownership of the title to the building. Two different issues.

Ah - so you do not deny that the Israeli high court has ordered them to leave? And they have refused?

Are they even legally allowed to resettle themselves into Hebron without the approval of the Israeli cabinet?

[Kaplanr]

This part I agree with entirely. Though the latter for different reasons. I wonder what your views are on the ongoing attacks on Israelis in Judea & Samaria. As I have stated previously, this situation has been a political football, and not just by Barak.
To me the question has two levels. Let's call them strategic and tactical. Strategically, Israel has to decide as an entity, and not as the ruling political party de-jour, where its boudaries are going to be vis-a-vis the territories and the Palestinian population there. I don't see it as all or nothing, it's going to be something between 1967 and Greater Israel.

Tactically - the day to day safety, do what we were doing 20 years ago, patrols, ambushes, keep the "enemy" off their guard and unbalanced; and do it without obstructing the Palestinians day to day lives the way the system is now.


How do you get Naturie Karta from this lot? No Israel versus Greater Israel? The analogy might be a bit harsh... I don't agree with settler violence against the State but at least they agree there should be a State. Naturei Karta have more in common with the Arabs in Hebron.I make the equation this way. The hilltop youth and the "radical" mitnahalim like many of those found in Hebron may agree there should be a state, but they want a theocracy a-la Kahane. They are absolutists; Arabs have no place, Jews are something they define very narrowly, and we'll get our own Sharia, only it's called Halacha (as interpreted by them.)

[LRPV]

Ah - so you do not deny that the Israeli high court has ordered them to leave? And they have refused?

Are they even legally allowed to resettle themselves into Hebron without the approval of the Israeli cabinet?

Andrew, old mate, I have yet to address any of your posts on this thread, so if this aspect really rocks your boat, have chat with one of similar mind.

If a post of mine follows yours please do'nt assume that my post necessarily addresses you. No offence intended but it is clear you have the perception that I have responded to one of your posts.

[LRPV]

To me the question has two levels. Let's call them strategic and tactical. Strategically, Israel has to decide as an entity, and not as the ruling political party de-jour, where its boudaries are going to be vis-a-vis the territories and the Palestinian population there. I don't see it as all or nothing, it's going to be something between 1967 and Greater Israel.

Absolutely agreed. It's the current political activity that bothers me.

Tactically - the day to day safety, do what we were doing 20 years ago, patrols, ambushes, keep the "enemy" off their guard and unbalanced; and do it without obstructing the Palestinians day to day lives the way the system is now.

Good luck with Peace Now, they see nothing but obstruction and are giving cameras to the Arabs to create media events.


I make the equation this way. The hilltop youth and the "radical" mitnahalim like many of those found in Hebron may agree there should be a state, but they want a theocracy a-la Kahane. They are absolutists; Arabs have no place, Jews are something they define very narrowly, and we'll get our own Sharia, only it's called Halacha (as interpreted by them.)

Ok, I see where you are coming from, the new Sanhedrin. Fair enough.

[LazerLordz]

Break the law, face the consequences. These extremists prove that there's always idiots of all sorts.

[PeterG]

The israeli army should leave. If God has given the settlers that land, he will protect them, so they don't need the army anyway. Let them sort it out themselves with the palestinians.

[oldsoak]

I sympathise with the IDF. It must be pretty hard to have to obey an order that brings you into conflict with your fellow countrymen. Likewise, I would hope that the settlers would understand that to curse or stone the IDF is to behave like their enemies. A stone in the face feels the same, be it thrown by Palestinian or settler. By all means contest the decision in the courts, in the ballot box - but do not strike those who may have to lay down their lives protecting you.

[PsihoKeke]

Israel should have a policy of granting voting rights only to those that served. It would lower the influence of religious parties, enabling goverment to leave security of these idiots to god.

[Big Lebowski]

The israeli army should leave. If God has given the settlers that land, he will protect them, so they don't need the army anyway. Let them sort it out themselves with the palestinians.

Agreed. They dont seem to appreciate the fact that if it wasent for the IDF, they would be f'ucked.

[Moledet]

Israel should have a policy of granting voting rights only to those that served. It would lower the influence of religious parties, enabling goverment to leave security of these idiots to god.
Then people would say it's Apartheid since you can't expect Arabs to serve in the military.

It's a real shame the way Hebron settlers act toward the troops, in Gaza it was never like this.

The Palestinians are probably joyful though I doubt it will stay this way for long, the settlers there are heavily armed and they will respond.

[Kaplanr]

Agreed. They dont seem to appreciate the fact that if it wasent for the IDF, they would be f'ucked.

Actually, as long as they're armed, the Hebron folks are quite capable of taking care of themselves, maybe too well.

[PeterG]

Actually, as long as they're armed, the Hebron folks are quite capable of taking care of themselves, maybe too well.

So let them kill each other then. When the gunsmoke clears, the survivors can perhaps try to come to a political solution. Or continue to fight with stones and guns until they are all dead. If this is what their 'religion' say is a really clever and necessary thing to do.

[alexz]

Break the law, face the consequences. These extremists prove that there's always idiots of all sorts.

There are idiots among the settlers but this time I support them 100%.
The dispute is about a house they legaly purchased, paid in full and moved in.
The Israeli supreme court that its known for extreme left bias ruled that until the dispute is resolved they must be evecuted. In no other rulling in Israel or anywhere else in the civiliazed world, the legal owner of the propery has to leave his own house when challanged by a stranger in court. Imagine I challange your right to live in your own home and until the courts rule you have to move out.

[CMNot]

The dispute is about a house they legaly purchased, paid in full and moved in.

This (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1227702438893&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) house?

[GrimReaper]

This (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1227702438893&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) house?
Yes, this house. The house was bought and paid for, including recording the deal. The court hasn't made a decision regarding the ownership, only about the legality of inhabiting it - due to an obscure law making it mandatory for Jews to have approval from the MoD before moving in.

[RoyB]

I can't argue about how idiotic our court is.. but spilling acid on police officers and soldiers? throwing paint at them? wishing for their death?
Those who do the above deserve a beating.

[alexz]

Morris Abraham claims he legally purchased the property from a Palestinian, but the alleged seller says he changed his mind and that the deal was never finalized

Abraham is a descendant of Jews who were banished from Hebron following the 1929 massacre. He gave up his retirement fund to buy the building in Hebron, which links Kiryat Arba with the Tomb of the Patriarchs.

He presented documents which he says prove he purchased the house, and complained about the High Court's refusal to look into the ownership issue at any depth.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041317.html

[Fade]

Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men

guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Friday December 5 2008 10.52 GMT

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem has released graphic video footage showing settlers fighting with Palestinians in Hebron and shooting two men at close range in the hours after a settler house was evacuated by police yesterday.

The film, recorded by a Palestinian resident in Hebron, shows settlers attacking his house, which was in a valley close to the three-storey building where dozens of settlers were evicted by Israeli riot police. In the hours after the eviction, Jewish settlers rioted in Hebron, throwing stones at police and Palestinians and setting fire to Palestinian trees and attacking Palestinian homes. Most of the violence took place between the evicted house and the nearby hardline Jewish settlement of Kirya Arba.

The footage shows a settler firing a handgun and injuring two Palestinians, Hosni Abu Se'ifan, 40, who was hit in the chest and is now in a stable condition in hospital, and his father, Abd al-Hai Abu Se'ifan, 65, who was hurt in the arm. Others from the family then overpower the gunman until armed Israeli security guards from the Kiryat Arba settlement arrive and shoot several rounds over the heads of the Palestinians. The Abu Se'ifan family have frequently been targeted by settlers in the past.

B'Tselem handed the video to Israeli police in Hebron last night and was "demanding that the assailant is immediately brought to justice and that the involvement of the security guard be investigated".WARNING: VIOLENT CONTENT

Link to story and video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/05/hebron-settlers-shooting-israel-palestinians)

[GrimReaper]

Jewish settlers in Hebron shoot Palestinian men

guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Friday December 5 2008 10.52 GMT Wrong headline, the correct one is "Jewish man fires in self-defense at a Palestinian mob trying to assault him"/

[RoyB]

Two Kiryat Arba residents, suspected of shooting at Palestinians following the forced eviction of settlers from the "House of Contention" in Hebron on Thursday, turned themselves in to the authorities on Saturday.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1044061.html

[CMNot]

Caption is right, "Violent Content"; video just seems to show a bloke shoot twice at two people then taking some licks.

[Rudolph]

WARNING: VIOLENT CONTENT

Link to story and video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/05/hebron-settlers-shooting-israel-palestinians)

Well, that's not good.

[RoyB]

I think the video shows that the guy panicked. but I don't support the settlers actions..

[vinny_121_ND]

Wrong caption, the correct one is "Jewish man fires in self-defense at a Palestinian mob trying to assault him"/

You're sure?



In the hours after the eviction, Jewish settlers rioted in Hebron, throwing stones at police and Palestinians and setting fire to Palestinian trees and attacking Palestinian homes. Most of the violence took place between the evicted house and the nearby hardline Jewish settlement of Kirya Arba.

I'll be very honest. I don't like it when settlers attack palestinians. I've seen photos of palestinians who have been burned by fire and acid from these attacks and they're horrific injuries. At the same time, I don't like it when palestinians fight the settlers, and israelis. The cycle of violence must stop.

[Bulletproof]

I love how they managed to plug an ad of Toshiba just before....

[GrimReaper]

Caption is right, "Violent Content"; video just seems to show a bloke shoot twice at two people then taking some licks.
I meant the guardian headline...

[JJC]

It's a real shame the way Hebron settlers act toward the troops, in Gaza it was never like this.

Because the "settlers" have a very fast learning curve these days. The state that they live in has lost its identity and it is no longer a state that represents all Jewish but only represents the interests of a few elites and enlightened secular, progressive Jews.

Gaza pullout was a good lesson for these savage, land hungry, brutal settling religious nuts. They don't trust an establishment which will decide their fate in near future based on "just law" and popular politics.
Any evacuation of lands is viewed as furthering the agenda of activist judges and peace loving politicians. Slap the word "settler" and everyone becomes an expert historian on what belongs to who. These "settlers" serve their country and serve in the IDF like any other secular Jews too.

There is lots of arrogant foaming at the mouth in the world. "extremist Jewish, religious settlers; ohh how crazy they are fighting for a some plot of land because of some old fairy tale book." And it's so comforting to some peace experts to equate them to Palestinians. I can't blame these "extremist settlers.'

[Dr_Fünke]

Because the "settlers" have a very fast learning curve these days. The state that they live in has lost its identity and it is no longer a state that represents all Jewish but only represents the interests of a few elites and enlightened secular, progressive Jews.


If the state appeased these colonials would it be representing 'all jewish'?

[Rudolph]

If the state appeased these colonials would it be representing 'all jewish'?

Would supporting a minority causing problems for the majority be in the majority's best interest? Glad I don't have to make these decisions! I don't implicitly mean the settlers are bad news, that is beside the point/question, I mean if supporting any kind of minority in a country leads directly to negativity deflected onto the majority, then at what price is homogeny attempted?

[LRPV]

If the state appeased these colonials would it be representing 'all jewish'?

Once again I read your flamebait. Do you have an intellectual interest? If so it must be obscure as you consistently refute factual history...or at least ignore it.

I suggest you study recent history, from 1947 should help. Even my Arab friends acknowledge that what has transpired was not what was intended for Israel.

Do you have another user name? Your posts are remarkably similar.......

[Dr_Fünke]

Once again I read your flamebait.

what constitutes 'flamebait' to you seems to be just about anything that doesn't represent the views of the extreme right wing when talking about israeli politics and history, apparently those views include having something of a soft spot for religious fanaticism


so lets not confuse 'flaming' for ones' oversensitivity and difference of opinion.


Even my Arab friends acknowledge that what has transpired was not what was intended for Israel.i don't see how a country's original intentions, whatever people think they were, have any role in legitmizing present day events



i'm sure we don't need to resort to cliches about 'having friends on the other side who agree with me' in order to bolster one's own claim to bipartisanship or objectivity either, a lot of other people's arab friends would be in disagreement with yours!