Would legalization of drugs solve worlds drug problem?

[rhino]

now would it?
discuss

[Albatross]

The only drug that I think should even be in consideration should be marijuana. The only reason that I think it should be legalized is the fact that we could tax the hell out of it and pay for quite a bit of infrastructure support and rebuilding. It is fairly prevalent in our society, and my personal belief is that our law enforcement agencies have better things to do than busting some kid with a bag of pot.

All the others get a hell no.

[gaijinsamurai]

Agreed.

I would also like to see heroin remain illegal, but approached from more of a treatment vs. criminal approach. Most heroin addicts I had contact with desperately wanted to quit, but the drug had too strong a hold on them.

I'm for all-out war on methamphetamines.

[jupiter]

But then you'll end with a new batch of syntetic drugs, thus restarting the cycle. Natural drugs, marijuana, peyote, and....what else it's natural?

[IraGlacialis]

^^^^^
Shrooms.

I agree that Cannabis should be legalized and taxed to an unholy amount.
Meth, cocaine, and heroin should stay illegal.

How about LSD?

[Hawkeye4077]

My sociology professor tried to argue that legalizing all drugs would lower use because everyone would have access to them and thus wouldn't be so tempted to use them, whereas not having easy access to them makes you want them more. I fail to see the logic in this, but wouldn't be too upset if marijuana was legalized. The rest can stay illegal for all I care

[gaijinsamurai]

I think a lot of young people would try the drugs once or twice if they were legalized, and most would decide it's not for them, but there would be that percentage of the population who would become addicted, either through a natural propensity for such, or through using it enough times.

Kinda like gambling, alcohol, etc.

Personally, I think the fewer vices our society has, the better.

[ggk]

the answer is no....it will not...and im legit.

regarding marijuana (in my country we call it ganja) i have mix feeling.

[IraGlacialis]

My sociology professor tried to argue that legalizing all drugs would lower use because everyone would have access to them and thus wouldn't be so tempted to use them, whereas not having easy access to them makes you want them more. I fail to see the logic in this, but wouldn't be too upset if marijuana was legalized. The rest can stay illegal for all I careI would compare it to high school/college students and drinking. From what I see, sneaking alcohol in and drinking it underage has a certain appeal to many people. However, once you turn 21 and can actually buy it yourself, the novelty tends wears off (not saying that the drinking stops; it just doesn't seem as important).

But going to the original question; of course it won't. We have trouble with the drugs that are already legal.

[pekka elo]

I don't think it'd solve any problems.
There's already enough trouble with the legal drugs, ethanol and nicotine here in Finland. Particularly the former.

However I think personal cultivation of cannabis should be allowed. There's no crime involved or money moving around.

[rhino]

legalizing marijuana solves nothing, there will always be people who would try to compete with the gov suplied stuff, just as they do with moonshine and illegal tabaco products

[Hispeed1]

No. You won't stop the problem that way.

[SoCalEMT]

I think a lot of young people would try the drugs once or twice if they were legalized, and most would decide it's not for them, but there would be that percentage of the population who would become addicted, either through a natural propensity for such, or through using it enough times.

Kinda like gambling, alcohol, etc.

Personally, I think the fewer vices our society has, the better.

This is an excellent point. I believe that many are underestimating just how prevalent and readily available drugs (up through sch. 1 narcs) are in society. I don't believe that the raw numbers of addicts would dramatically increase, as those with the predilection toward drug use already have access to their poison of choice. I used to deal with drug addicts every day I went to work, and it sucks, no doubt. I would simply state that the worst case scenario scenarios of society crumbling are not accurate. Hell, up to 1911, you could buy heroine OTC.

[rhino]

This is an excellent point. I believe that many are underestimating just how prevalent and readily available drugs (up through sch. 1 narcs) are in society. I don't believe that the raw numbers of addicts would dramatically increase, as those with the predilection toward drug use already have access to their poison of choice. I used to deal with drug addicts every day I went to work, and it sucks, no doubt. I would simply state that the worst case scenario scenarios of society crumbling are not accurate. Hell, up to 1911, you could buy heroine OTC.

I can respect your point of view;
but in 1911 how many people knew about heroin and its effects? is the fear of prosecution not an excellent way of keeping most curious folks at bay? come on, everyone knows about drawbacks of smocking but yet a lot, especially a youth, try it out and though certain procentage quits, there are plenty that stay hooked, and heroin is not tabaco, in many cases just one, one exposure create predisposition to addiction

I do belive this would be the undoing of western civilization

[SoCalEMT]

I can respect your point of view;
but in 1911 how many people knew about heroin and its effects? is the fear of prosecution not an excellent way of keeping most curious folks at bay? come on, everyone knows about drawbacks of smocking but yet a lot, especially a youth, try it out and though certain procentage quits, there are plenty that stay hooked, and heroin is not tabaco, in many cases just one, one exposure create predisposition to addiction

I do belive this would be the undoing of western civilization

You're right, opioids are much less addictive than nicotine:). I don't know where you hail from but, anecdotally at least, I can say, that if you want drugs, you're gonna get them. Liability for prosecution doesn't seem to play the leading role in the decision making process, as evinced by the absolutely HUGE amount of drugs consumed in the U.S. People decide that drugs aren't going to take them anywhere in life, so theys stay away, or as Gaijinsamurai stated, they dabble and quit. Should drugs be legalized (and don't worry, they're not...ever) employers will still screen employees, people will still go to jail for DUIs, and people that want to achieve in life will still stay away from using. The U.S. has been at "war" with drugs since the Nixon administration, with literally billions spent, and all we have to show for it is the largest prison population in the world.

[Steaks]

I remember seeing a show on weed prohibition, it pointed out something like 70% of drug incarcerations were for possession of marijuana. Jails are big business though...that'd be a lot of $ lost

[2Sheds_Jackson]

There's a reason why certain substances were made illegal - we as a civilization didn't just wake up one day and decide to be uncool and heavy. All we would do is trade an enforcement problem for a consumption problem. Which is worse? Well it only takes a quick look back in history, at the huge problems society had when these substances were legal, for me to decide that legalization is a dumb idea. Maybe there are some drugs around the edges (like pot maybe) that could be managed like alcohol - but others are just out of the question IMO.

[SoCalEMT]

There's a reason why certain substances were made illegal - we as a civilization didn't just wake up one day and decide to be uncool and heavy. All we would do is trade an enforcement problem for a consumption problem. Which is worse? Well it only takes a quick look back in history, at the huge problems society had when these substances were legal, for me to decide that legalization is a dumb idea. Maybe there are some drugs around the edges (like pot maybe) that could be managed like alcohol - but others are just out of the question IMO.

No doubt societies intolerance for narcotics didn't spring up overnight. I would simply say that we, right now, have the worst of both worlds, a gigantic enforcement problem, AND a huge (and perpetually growing) consumption problem. Can the center hold?

[CG51]

This has been discussed before here several times. But, I will state that I'm for legalization. There is a certain percentage of the population that will be addicts to something, regardless of what is done in the enforcement sector and education. Alcohol is the worst drug IMO as it wins hands down in the number of arrests, destruction of families, random vilolence, ect... and it is legal! Ciggeretts kill more than gun crimes, it's legal.

Those who point out that if legal, some kids will be more likely to try the hard stuff like meth then I would say, well, with all the information out there on the web and from schools and you seek out meth, well, probably not the type of person that you would want to keep around anyway.

Tax all drugs, revenue for education and infastructure and other programs. Reduces the amount of dealers on the street protecting their trade with violence.

Win.

[Sloppy Joe2]

There's a reason why certain substances were made illegal - we as a civilization didn't just wake up one day and decide to be uncool and heavy. All we would do is trade an enforcement problem for a consumption problem. Which is worse? Well it only takes a quick look back in history, at the huge problems society had when these substances were legal, for me to decide that legalization is a dumb idea. Maybe there are some drugs around the edges (like pot maybe) that could be managed like alcohol - but others are just out of the question IMO.well the other day i was watching "History" and they were having a show on drugs. generally what it told me is that the majority of drugs were made illegal because racist white people thought it would make a murderer out of the black man :cantbeli:

[gaijinsamurai]

I remember seeing a show on weed prohibition, it pointed out something like 70% of drug incarcerations were for possession of marijuana. Jails are big business though...that'd be a lot of $ lost

That may be the case in some places, but definitely not where I'm from. When I was a parole officer, we couldn't even arrest offenders for violations if their only crime was for a drug offense.
And the cops in Portland don't even bother arresting for possession cases anymore. Cite and release.

And as far as jails being "big business", our jails are nothing but a big drain on government rescources. A lot of the people who NEED to be behind bars aren't, simply because there isn't the space, and the public, although frustrated, isn't willing to fork over the tax dollars to fund more cells.

Again, I'm just writing about Oregon, but I'd be willing to bet my state's situation isn't too different from that of others.

[Lt. James Anderson]

Drugs are legal in Afghanistan.
I know first hand how that's working for them. :roll:

[CG51]

Crime is big business. The government hire more cops to patrol, lawyers to prosecute and defend, judges, builds new prisons and people to staff those facilites. Generates revenue, good for the economy. Wonder what the pecentage are incarcerated for drug possion only?

[len173]

No. It wouldn't help anything. Marijuana should be decriminalized for small amounts. That way the police don't spend 24/7 do paperwork on the 50 joints they took from 50 different people. It should stay illegal though.

We had prohibition, then alcohol became legal and taxed. It didn't do anything; there is still mass amounts of people dependent on alcohol. Our police spend a majority of time dealing with alcohol related calls.

I sure as hell don't want my kids believing it's okay to smoke marijuana. No matter what you tell a kid, if something is legal it puts an entirely new spin on it.

[Policía Loco]

That may be the case in some places, but definitely not where I'm from. When I was a parole officer, we couldn't even arrest offenders for violations if their only crime was for a drug offense.
And the cops in Portland don't even bother arresting for possession cases anymore. Cite and release.

And as far as jails being "big business", our jails are nothing but a big drain on government rescources. A lot of the people who NEED to be behind bars aren't, simply because there isn't the space, and the public, although frustrated, isn't willing to fork over the tax dollars to fund more cells.

Again, I'm just writing about Oregon, but I'd be willing to bet my state's situation isn't too different from that of others.

Most cops in my state wouldn't waste their time arresting someone for possession either. Unless it was aggravated or felony. Either charge with a citation and release or some would make the subject destroy it right their on the spot and send them on their way. I don't know of anyone sentenced to state prison or county jail for simple possession of marijuana. It's always dismissed or they are given probation. Other drugs should definately remain illegal as there are reasons.

As far as prisons, I don't agree with the more taxes argument. I think we need to use the tax dollars we have in a different manner. It's annoying to see rapists, murderers, child molesters, etc spending their days not doing ****, yet enjoying cable, with their own tv in each cell. With three hot meals a day, free medical care, free education, a nice clean blanket to lay down with and a/c and heat. These people live better than a lot of law abiding citizens.

[rhino]

a question for those advocating for legalization;
once taxed, what would prevent the drug cartels from providing better quallity and cheaper drugs to addicts?
sure there would be those that will go legit, but seeing that there wont be any enforcement to keep them from he busines a lot of 'fat'(protection/kickbacks) could be cut out too so there still be profit for those already organized to import drugs into US and other countries

[Vandervahn]

...
sure there would be those that will go legit, but seeing that there wont be any enforcement to keep them from he busines ....

I think that is a misconception. I don´t see any western country implementing an all-out legalization of (certain) drugs, even in the Netherlands the sale of "soft" drugs is heavily restricted and controlled. I don´t think the cartels could really compete in this situation with the legit traders, unless going legit themselves.

The whole point of drug legalization is not decriminalisation of the end-user, but to break up the criminal structures behind the trafficking. To achieve that, a government would have to make sure their "product" is a lot more appealing to the majority of the users, both in price and in quality.

[CG51]

a question for those advocating for legalization;
once taxed, what would prevent the drug cartels from providing better quallity and cheaper drugs to addicts?
sure there would be those that will go legit, but seeing that there wont be any enforcement to keep them from he busines a lot of 'fat'(protection/kickbacks) could be cut out too so there still be profit for those already organized to import drugs into US and other countries

Pretty good question. Mary Jane and coke come from plants (using these two as an example), could not cost much to manufacture/grow and coke is processed with the cheapest chemicals available. MEK is/was used, I worked with that stuff in the Navy, nasty sh!t. Organized crime give a fvck all about the effects of the drugs on the street. The goverment could have quality control in the manufacture process for health standards (lol). I believe the reason for the price of the drugs is due to transportion into the states as they lose a certain percentage of product coming into here as all the routes are watched by various agencies, also, greed is a factor. Also, each dealer cuts the product to make his margin of profit. The government could cut the cost by a lot, even subsidize (by reinvesting from the taxation) like the farmers to cut out the organize crime element.

This is just me trying to promote discussion :). Any others like to chime in?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Whilst it would not help with the social issues of drug addiction. It would lower the criminal element.

[rhino]

of course this is all theoretical, there is no way to chang status quo at the moment

for this whole thing to work the billions spend on war on drugs would have to be cut off and placed into programs supporting the legalization, no?
is it my misconception that war=enforcement? if not what is the procentage that goes into enforcement? how much $ go to infrastructure that deals with the victims of drug addiction?

[rhino]

you are right beNder about the price of end product being directly linked to costs of import (that even sounds funny)
since legalization would lessen the costs, the end product would greatly drop in prise

[jupiter]

Drugs are legal in Afghanistan.
I know first hand how that's working for them. :roll:
But they export those drugs to where is illegal, and make a huge profit of it, financing the taliban.

[Red-Phos]

Drugs are for wrong'uns and wank shafts.

[jupiter]

Alcohol, tobaco, and some drugs are legal, controlled but legal. How many deaths are linked to the use of the two first?. Legal or illegal, to many deaths result of the addicction. Basicaly, we are facing a never ending story.

[giggler]

I am for keeping them illegal even for upping the age for the one legal drug some you of you drink alchol. Life long Teetolar.

[Createdeemcee]

Taxation on Weed, I hear weed makes an excellent plant for other uses. Rope, Textiles, amd even fuel. Everything else should stay illegal. I have a friend who is a hard drinker. hes worse than any of the hippy guys I know.

[rhino]

I am for keeping them illegal even for upping the age for the one legal drug some you of you drink alchol. Life long Teetolar.

no offence, but are you trying to prove your point with this post?
I cant make up what you saying

[CG51]

Taxation on Weed, I hear weed makes an excellent plant for other uses. Rope, Textiles, amd even fuel. Everything else should stay illegal.

How would they justify legalizing weed and not other narcos? You would have to change the classification of the drug I assume. Also, synthetic drugs, stay illegal or go across the board if you are going to legalize? Much debate needed here.

[jupiter]

Translation: keep all drugs illegal, even if you raise the legal age to buy alcohol, make it illegal to.

[tea drinker]

Legalising drugs may make the problem of arresting importers/pushers mostly go away, but it doesn't fix the problems with adverse effects of them.
It's like saying legalising paedophilia makes it ok, and remember there is pressure for the age of consent to be reduced and it has in many countries.
A more obvious comparison is: doing away with speed limits gets rid of the speeding problem. The usual argument is that we are all adults and we can all make up our own mind... and what about my freedom?

It's up to people to make a stand for what they believe in, all our morals are being eroded by SO-CALLED do gooders.

Do you really think the big Pharmaceutical companies will make drugs cheap? No, they will be as expensive as they can get away with, same as the rest of their wares.
Remember, these drugs will have to go through all sorts of testing and verification process and an insurance/claim cost will be built into each pack.
Street dealers do not offer any assistance to addicts that I know of, nor any testing or approval... so their costs are lower.

[tbk107]

What a complete waste of money the war on drugs has been. Legalize it all and tax them. Shift money from LE, courts and incarceration into education and treatment.

My guess is you'd come away with less drug use, less violence, fewer people incarcerated and you could tank a few third world economies too boot!

[gilgoul]

Legalize but control everything.
It doesn't mean that there won't be issues, just like alcoholism is a lingering problem in most societies, but the arbitrary decision to allow one molecule over an other has proven only wrong.
And LE agencies and armed forces have been spending way too much money and resources on the "war on drug", for no evident result.
And the younger generations are even more exposed to it than before.
As for taxing the hell out of drugs, it would simply lead to what happens with cigarettes, smuggling rings of legit packs between countries with different taxation.
Legalize the products, but punish severely whoever get's out of line using, and make sure that the production is trackable to avoid the intrusion of "illegal" productions in the circuit.

[gilgoul]

BTW, in Israel, chemotherapy patients have now access to legal Marijuana.

[gilgoul]

No. It wouldn't help anything. Marijuana should be decriminalized for small amounts. That way the police don't spend 24/7 do paperwork on the 50 joints they took from 50 different people. It should stay illegal though.

We had prohibition, then alcohol became legal and taxed. It didn't do anything; there is still mass amounts of people dependent on alcohol. Our police spend a majority of time dealing with alcohol related calls.

I sure as hell don't want my kids believing it's okay to smoke marijuana. No matter what you tell a kid, if something is legal it puts an entirely new spin on it.

Well, prohibition is what made the mafia what they are.
Now at least, the money goes to manufacturers and taxes to the collectivity.
As long as we don't understand that psychoactive substances are a part of human life, we won't be able to deal with the issue.

[philbob]

no cuz we wpould realise there wouldnt be enough for everyone and whoops there goes the neighbor hood

[Aerosoul]

Agreed.

I would also like to see heroin remain illegal, but approached from more of a treatment vs. criminal approach. Most heroin addicts I had contact with desperately wanted to quit, but the drug had too strong a hold on them.

I'm for all-out war on methamphetamines.

From what I see, the one drug holding the most attention by agencies is meth. I saw a very well-outfitted (with equipment/supplies) truck the other day that had "Tennessee Methamphetamine Task Force Clandestine Response Unit" on the side. Lot of money being spent to fight meth, at least around here. TN has one of the biggest problems with it.

I'll agree about legalizing weed. Tax it, whatever. Tax shouldn't be ridiculous but I do support the legalization of it. The rest I don't care, should probably remain illegal.

Weed should have never been made illegal in the first place.

[CG51]

There is no good drug. All drugs have their side effects. Alcohol being being one of the worst and legal is hypocrisy if you ask me. So much bad with that drug and they keep it legal, read about the Prohibition. IMO weed is better than alcohol but it's all about the person using.

This is about government trying to stem the tide of crime and violence with the huge amounts of money being made with the manufacture and sale of narcotics.

The government has failed in the War on Drugs. Time to assess the current policy and realize that prohibition has failed.

[rhino]

There is no good drug. All drugs have their side effects. Alcohol being being one of the worst and legal is hypocrisy if you ask me. So much bad with that drug and they keep it legal, read about the Prohibition. IMO weed is better than alcohol but it's all about the person using.

This is about government trying to stem the tide of crime and violence with the huge amounts of money being made with the manufacture and sale of narcotics.

The government has failed in the War on Drugs. Time to assess the current policy and realize that prohibition has failed.

I think we go cold turkey on all vices sooner

[BorisBC]

Well I guess you need to ask yourself, what's worse - the current problems of crime associated with drugs, or, a possibly much higher incidence of mental health problems. You have to make drugs very cheap, so there's no incentive to make your own (ala tobacco), and reasonably easy to obtain (ala alcohol). Yes, for sure you'd have to deal with at least one, but possibly two generations of idiots who abuse themselves on drugs, but I reckon it would settle down somewhat, so long as the usual prohibitions that are in force for legal drugs were applied.

But I reckon the biggest problem would be socially with all these masses of people no longer 'criminals'.. or worse yet, no longer able to make money from the sale of drugs: the social backlash would be pretty immense. Do we think all these people making X millions of bucks from drugs are just going to give it up?

[tea drinker]

Well I guess you need to ask yourself, what's worse - the current problems of crime associated with drugs, or, a possibly much higher incidence of mental health problems. You have to make drugs very cheap, so there's no incentive to make your own (ala tobacco), and reasonably easy to obtain (ala alcohol). Yes, for sure you'd have to deal with at least one, but possibly two generations of idiots who abuse themselves on drugs, but I reckon it would settle down somewhat, so long as the usual prohibitions that are in force for legal drugs were applied.

But I reckon the biggest problem would be socially with all these masses of people no longer 'criminals'.. or worse yet, no longer able to make money from the sale of drugs: the social backlash would be pretty immense. Do we think all these people making X millions of bucks from drugs are just going to give it up?

Good post.
However as a taxpayer I don't want to fund recreational activities for loosers. I suggest the full insurance cost is built into each pack of drugs and no bailout from taxpayers is allowed. If the drug or insurance company tanks then let the druggies die or pay for incarceration, as is their decision.

I reckon the true cost of drugs would still be prohibitive and black market "blow your mind out your ass" drugs would still have a good market.

In addition children of druggies may need to be removed and the cost of housing and educating them should be billed to druggie or drug company.
Nice way to grow up - watch mammy and daddy drool on the carpet.
Surely that kid will be a net contributor to society?
The time for lifestyle choices (drug addiction or work aversion - whatever)to be paid for by taxpayers has come and gone. Stand on your own feet, so you kids can do the same.

[Van Gogh]

I remember seeing a show on weed prohibition, it pointed out something like 70% of drug incarcerations were for possession of marijuana. Jails are big business though...that'd be a lot of $ lost

i got a question. what about jail is big business? they're not paying to go to jail. the jails aren't making money. the money is coming out of your pocket when someones goes to jail. taxpayer money. and thats not big business for you or me. legalize weed.

[C.Fodder]

Legalize is maybe a step too far,
de-criminilize usage and small possessions,maybe even prescriptions for long term heroin addicts.
let these small fish come out of hiding and talk about their problems without fear of the law and lot more would get help...earlier.

You can still go after the dealers,importers & producers,and the cops,courts and prisons will be less inundated with silly/curious kids and hopeless fools who wouldn't otherwise be considered"criminal".

If you let pot smokers grow a few plants legally,as opposed to commercial scale cropping,you negate their need to associate with criminals.

Commercialization would only legitimize the substance to impressionable minds.

[Lazarou]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2620/dependencephysicalharmfd1.gif

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse)

[cmoor]

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse)

This graph is imho wrong in regards to heroin. Heroin itself poses few physical harms.
The physical harm arises through the illegal character of the drug that puts the consumer at risk, i.e. reused syringes and the varying quality of the drug.
Legal hand over of heroin or substitutes, in a controlled enviroment, can and does at least fix this problem.
On the other hand you don't want any more dependant heroin users which will happen, when you legalize heroin or any high addictive drugs, that you later have to supply with legal drugs.
Sounds like a chicken or egg dilemma to me.

[SoSo]

We should decriminalize marijuana, immediately. There are worse drugs that require the attention of law enforcement. One reason it hasn't happened is, many conservative politicians associate marijuana with the counterculture, with people with whom they have little sympathy. But many professional people also smoke marijuana. Not everyone who smokes has long hair, and wears tie-dye and sandals and hemp clothing. Some people you would never suspect, also smoke. A big problem is, the criminalization of marijuana causes many otherwise patriotic, productive, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens to regard the police and authorities as potential enemies.

[rhino]

A big problem is, the criminalization of marijuana causes many otherwise patriotic, productive, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens to regard the police and authorities as potential enemies.

this is the kind of reasoning I find oximoron

[Nacho-Libre]

I feel that drug use in the UK needs to be re-evaluated. I think that if certain drugs (cannabis, some other natural substances) were maybe legalized in a controlled manner, it would provide solid income and allow police to act on more serious drugs.

Myself and a few friends were at the pub debating how it would be done. We decided that if a place was licensed to sell cannabis in controlled (i.e designated smoking areas) environments in small amounts (much like a coffee shop in amsterdam) that it would be beneficial. A license based on category of cannabis, amount to be sold, and where it is purchased from, could be slapped onto that pub. It would then be allowed to sell a certain amount every day, of a certain category (i.e lightweight - 7% to 10%) as long as it was supplied from a government or government approved source for a reasonable license fee. The government would benefit from this because it removes the need for people to illegally purchase cannabis on the street when one could buy 2.5g in a licensed shop for say £15. (instead of 3.5g of ****ty stuff from a dealer for the current £20 - £25.)

A further license system which allows people to grow for personal use could be introduced. I.e if I wanted to grow myself enough cannabis to smoke on a regular basis, I would apply for a license to grow no more than 2 plants at a time, of a certain class and yield. I would then be subject to random checks by officials to make sure I hadnt been producing to sell, or exceeding my allowed amount to grow. For a nominal fee of say £200 per year per plant, the government would make a good amount of money, and the consumer would be able to provide themselves with their own home grown cannabis.

(note: per plant implies that you are allowed to grow 1 plant at any time within that year at the cost of £200. so if you have the license, you can always grow a single plant, likewise, if you have a bigger license, you can grow 2.)

I would then increase the prison terms for illegal selling / cultivation to rediculous amounts with no chance of getting off easy. People would think "well, why should I risk going to prison for 3 years per plant, if I can just pay a small some and enjoy some stuff ive grown myself, or go to a pub and enjoy it there?".

Its not about banning the substance, its better to control it. And if you take something out of the equation, it becomes a non-viable option for drug dealers. I dont mean that this should be the case for all drugs - but cannabis use is so frequent that people will always find ways of getting it.

[budgie]

The only drug that I think should even be in consideration should be marijuana. The only reason that I think it should be legalized is the fact that we could tax the hell out of it and pay for quite a bit of infrastructure support and rebuilding. It is fairly prevalent in our society, and my personal belief is that our law enforcement agencies have better things to do than busting some kid with a bag of pot.

All the others get a hell no.

With the 'tross on this one. Marijuana is no worse than booze or tobacco and can be regulated. The hard stuff just ruins everyone touches, legal or not.

[Scrim]

i got a question. what about jail is big business? they're not paying to go to jail. the jails aren't making money. the money is coming out of your pocket when someones goes to jail. taxpayer money. and thats not big business for you or me. legalize weed.
Well, private prisons are making lots of money from the taxpayer, there are over 200 in the US.
All kinds of conspiracy theories, hell maybe even truths, that theyre filling them up with drug offenders for profits.
Marijuana at least should be decriminalised. I really dont understand why its illegal.

[INAT]

Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual that the use of the drug itself.

President Jimmy Carter, 2-August-1977



There is no doubt that whatever the American government declares war on is a joke, a failure.Meth is an epidemic, and it hurts not only the user but also almost everyone involved. I certainly think marijuana is OK to legalize but the government just cannot do it. I do not think non-violent drug users should always been locked up. The drug problem has many facets but it belongs to the medical field and not the law enforcement field. The prison complex and everything involved with the prison complex would suffer if they legalized drugs. California in the last decade or so has turned to treatment, as an option for non-violent offenders and it has been successful.

[BlackFlag]

Dependsw on the drugs.

Legalizing Marijuana would, in my opinion, would be beneficial to the US. If it was regulated like Tobacco and Alcohol, alot of crime stats would go down. Not to mention, Marijuana is less harmful to the mind/body over a long period.

Also, alot of county jails are loaded passed maximum capacity. Alot of convicts in county, are there directly or indirectly for Marijuana (Possession, Intent to distrubute, Vio-of-probabtion).

However, drugs like Meth, Heroine, and Crack are without a doubt a blight on Humanity. Legalizing physically addictive drugs to solve the world's drug problem would be legalizing Murder to solve the world's Homocide problem.

(I'm not a pothead BTW)

[eskachig]

... very complicated marijuana legislation proposalWhy does this have to be so complicated? Why can't we simply do what we do for tobacco - tax it to pay for related health problems and let the market take care of the rest. Yes you'll probably end up with a few brands grown in huge amounts by a few large companies, so what?

Does the government work hard to make it so that beer could only be made in small batches (they should actually do this imho, it tastes better that way)? No - you get your fancy beer, and your mass produced beer.

And nobody makes illegal beer on the side because you can always buy Bud cheaper.

this is the kind of reasoning I find oximoronI don't see anything oxymoronic. I know a lot of people who lead productive lives, and the only law they break habitually is marijuana prohibition. And maybe speeding.

Its use among young professionals is fairly widespread - most of my engineer friends smoke, and they're all bright people with good careers ahead of them.


There is no good drug. All drugs have their side effects. Alcohol being being one of the worst and legal is hypocrisy if you ask me. So much bad with that drug and they keep it legal, read about the Prohibition.Alcohol is the most destructive drug known to man. If every alcoholic suddenly magically became a pothead the world would be a dramatically better place.

[eskachig]

They might as well legalize marijuana. Almost everyone has a cannibis card.Well I certainly don't :(

I live in San Francisco, and yes it's stupidly easy to get one here. But I actually believe in the concept of medical marijuana and feel that all of those faking their "illnesses" are hurting both the movement and legitimate patients.

[Steaks]

i got a question. what about jail is big business? they're not paying to go to jail. the jails aren't making money. the money is coming out of your pocket when someones goes to jail. taxpayer money. and thats not big business for you or me. legalize weed.


The jails ARE making money. Private prisons receive a guaranteed amount of money for each prisoner, independent of what it costs to maintain each one. Private jails balance minimal number of guards per inmate. The ultra-modern prison in Lawrenceville, Virginia, have five guards on dayshift and two at night to watch over 750 prisoners, for example.
Then there's the prison labor. The federal prison industry produces military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Inmates in state penitentiaries generally receive the minimum wage for their work, but not all; in Colorado, they get about $2 per hour, well under the minimum. And in privately-run prisons, they receive as little as 17 cents per hour for a maximum of six hours a day, the equivalent of $20 per month.
That's why companies like IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom's, Revlon, Macy's, Pierre Cardin, and others use prison labor.

[rhino]

I don't see anything oxymoronic. I know a lot of people who lead productive lives, and the only law they break habitually is marijuana prohibition. And maybe speeding.

Its use among young professionals is fairly widespread - most of my engineer friends smoke, and they're all bright people with good careers ahead of them.


my turn to use speeding argument, I know tons of people, good, law abiding, productive and intelligent yet once a while they will step on that pedal too hard and brake the speed limit, sure most of the time they do no harm to anyone, they dont really brake the law because noone was watching and you know those speed limits are mostly just a suggestions:cantbeli:
do you see my point?

[eskachig]

my turn to use speeding argument, I know tons of people, good, law abiding, productive and intelligent yet once a while they will step on that pedal too hard and brake the speed limit, sure most of the time they do no harm to anyone, they dont really brake the law because noone was watching and you know those speed limits are mostly just a suggestions:cantbeli:
I'm pretty sure the people I am talking about are quite aware that they're breaking the law - even if in these parts mj possession is decriminalized. They consider it unjust, and so do not follow it. But in other respects they are upstanding citizens, whose view of government and law enforcement is skewed because of its unreasonable stance on this fairly harmless vice.

do you see my point?
I really don't.

[Kadrun]

Would legalization of drugs solve worlds drug problem?
-> NO

Would elimination of drugs solve worlds drug problem?
-> YES

[Laconian]

The problem with the "let's legalize it and tax it and the problem goes away" argument is that you then have to deal with all of those folks that skirt the tax angle. Untaxed/illegal tobacco and alcohol are a huge (billions of dollars) enterprise. It is run by either organized crime or terrorist organizations. It is international in scope. Every now and then you get the enterprising group of folks making illegal hooch (moonshine, white lightening, what have you) and selling it; even that can run into the millions of dollars.

Making drugs legal may increase revenue to the State and states, but it will not solve a majority of the enforcement issues. Crooks will come up with something else -synthetics, etc. I just don't see any good coming from it.

[rhino]

I really don't.

fair enough, I dont see your point either

[eskachig]

fair enough, I dont see your point either


But many professional people also smoke marijuana. Not everyone who smokes has long hair, and wears tie-dye and sandals and hemp clothing. Some people you would never suspect, also smoke. A big problem is, the criminalization of marijuana causes many otherwise patriotic, productive, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens to regard the police and authorities as potential enemies.

This.


The problem with the "let's legalize it and tax it and the problem goes away" argument is that you then have to deal with all of those folks that skirt the tax angle. Untaxed/illegal tobacco and alcohol are a huge (billions of dollars) enterprise. It is run by either organized crime or terrorist organizations. It is international in scope. Every now and then you get the enterprising group of folks making illegal hooch (moonshine, white lightening, what have you) and selling it; even that can run into the millions of dollars.I have never had any illegal and untaxed booze or tobacco, nor do I know where to find some. While I can go find pretty much any drug known to man by going to a few certain parts of town and asking the first hobo. Somehow I think that bootleg liquor and tobacco are a drop in the bucket compared to the legal stuff.

Making drugs legal may increase revenue to the State and states, but it will not solve a majority of the enforcement issues. Crooks will come up with something else -synthetics, etc. I just don't see any good coming from it.Why would anyone buy from them when they can get cheap, safe, legal drugs?

And most law enforcement issues come up from a) crime to get money for drugs, and b) trafficking said drugs. Now trafficking obviously goes away in favor of legal and licensed businesses, while crime for money to feed the habit goes down because the price goes down.

You see those people who buy a pint of the cheapest vodka every day when they get off work? If that vodka cost $100 they'd be stealing crap too.

[Laconian]

This.

I have never had any illegal and untaxed booze or tobacco, nor do I know where to find some. While I can go find pretty much any drug known to man by going to a few certain parts of town and asking the first hobo. Somehow I think that bootleg liquor and tobacco are a drop in the bucket compared to the legal stuff.
Why would anyone buy from them when they can get cheap, safe, legal drugs?

You haven't had any that you know of. A lot of mom & pop bodegas in most major US cities are selling illegally taxed tobacco. It is a big deal in every port city where cigs are supposed to be exported. A lot of bars that are run/controlled by OC and there are more tha you think are selling illegal untaxed liquor.


And most law enforcement issues come up from a) crime to get money for drugs, and b) trafficking said drugs. Now trafficking obviously goes away in favor of legal and licensed businesses, while crime for money to feed the habit goes down because the price goes down.

You left out the violence to control one's crew, territory and defeat one's competitor, and the guy who wants to be on top by killing everybody in his way. And the general depravity that goes along with addiction. I've sat in surveillance holes and the nasty stuff a junkie will do for a fix when they are jonesin'. Trafficking will not go away.

Your argument is cute hypothetical sociology BS. You want pot legal so you can toke at a concert or snort a line of coke at a dinner party and not have to worry about your world falling apart if you get caught. Good for you. That's not the reality of drugs in America. IMO having a greater number of stoned out zombies relying on the gov't for their next fix is not worth it.

[C.Fodder]

Enforcement will NEVER rid the world or even your city of drug abuse, even in extreme police states people find a way to circumvent prohibitions.So why not at least try a different approach than "war on drugs",it's a war that will never be won and it's a war on your own people.

if you Magically took away all drugs,people would still find a way to get high,like spinning in circles till they fall down laughing,and hospitals would would be plagued slip and fall injuries.

legalization has never been shown to significantly or permanantly raise usage levels afaik,and why weren't these substances abused more widely when no laws were in place against them? Doomsayers usually have an agenda.

[Michigun]

I think people focus to much on the name of it war on drugs than whats actually going on. I hate people who say it can never be won no **** it cant be won its like an idea you would have to kill everyone and everything that has to do with it to be completely forgotten. but it can be curbed and drastically reduced so its kept underground instead of it flowing around out of cities and into suburbs. I think cops are doing a decent job at curbing some of the hardcore drugs. I mean if u want it youll most likely be able to get it but you gotta look for it and it might take awhile. All my pothead friends were complaining all summer long about the drought there was around the Detroit area for weed. As far as weed goes i say legalize it and tax it focus more on the hardcore drugs.

[eugenlitwin]

now would it?
discuss

yes, it´d solve many problems. but it´d never happened ...drug mafia is very much against

[eugenlitwin]

The jails ARE making money. Private prisons receive a guaranteed amount of money for each prisoner, independent of what it costs to maintain each one. Private jails balance minimal number of guards per inmate. The ultra-modern prison in Lawrenceville, Virginia, have five guards on dayshift and two at night to watch over 750 prisoners, for example.
Then there's the prison labor. The federal prison industry produces military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Inmates in state penitentiaries generally receive the minimum wage for their work, but not all; in Colorado, they get about $2 per hour, well under the minimum. And in privately-run prisons, they receive as little as 17 cents per hour for a maximum of six hours a day, the equivalent of $20 per month.
That's why companies like IBM, Boeing, Motorola, Microsoft, AT&T Wireless, Texas Instrument, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom's, Revlon, Macy's, Pierre Cardin, and others use prison labor.

modern slavery?

[Michigun]

^Well if you feel sorry for someone who just murdered an entire family and doesnt feel the least bit sad about it go ahead and complain about modern slavery.

[Fiber]

I am for legalization. Not to stop drug use, but to stop fueling criminal organizations. The reasons are outlined here: Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php)

[gilgoul]

BTW,
Khat is legally tolerated in Israel, and you don't see people chomping on the green leafs at every street corner.
Just like not all Dutch are pot heads.
If you look for the most visible pot head society, I guess N. America win's the cup.
Visiting california a few years ago, I was shocked by the availablity and the use of the product.
Maybe time has come to review the attitude toward psychotropic products.

[Group9]

But many professional people also smoke marijuana. Not everyone who smokes has long hair, and wears tie-dye and sandals and hemp clothing. Some people you would never suspect, also smoke. .

How do they keep from reeking of the stink of it for the rest of the day, the way all the other marijuana users I encounter all day smell?

I can even smell people who smoke cigarettes when they just walk by. It seems like everybody I smell marijuana on, looks like they are on welfare, unemployed, and living off their parents.

How do all those professional people manage to avoid that?

[Laconian]

Clouding issues with facts, Group, will get you nowhere...

[JKD]

How do they keep from reeking of the stink of it for the rest of the day, the way all the other marijuana users I encounter all day smell?

I can even smell people who smoke cigarettes when they just walk by. It seems like everybody I smell marijuana on, looks like they are on welfare, unemployed, and living off their parents.

How do all those professional people manage to avoid that?


The white collar workers I know that smoke marijuana don't smell like weed during the day either. They don't smoke during the day, they're too busy working. The people I know who drink alcohol don't drink alcohol on the job either.