MP.Net Dogs of war part 2: The great raid.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Intent

The sequel to the original Dogs of war thread run by hellfish6.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92739

Background

Pirates, what else?

A cabal of 'business' interests have employed you to plan and prepare a raid to neutralise the effect that pirates activity is having on their bottom line. They'll front the cash. You are responsible for everything else.

Collateral damage and casualties are to be minimised as a matter of course.

Post raid BDA is to be provided.

Intent

Organize a raid on the Town of Eyl on the Somali coast and it's surrounding area in order to destroy pirate infrastructure and neutralise pirate operations.

Your Resources, Limitations, and House Rules

$25,000,000 for all expenses.

No more than 120 personnel, this includes logistics, C3I and shooters.

All weapons, transport and personnel must be realistically obtainable. No Ohio class SSBN's, F-22's, T-95's, Troops/Squadrons/Teams of CAG/DEVGRU or any other SMU, plasma rifles in the 40w range, etc.

Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces.

All information/intelligence used is to be open source.

You have six weeks to prepare your submissions.

Interested parties are to submit their respective Operational Orders (OPORD), to include;

1. Detailed orders, (No set format but must include Ground, Situation, Mission, Execution, Admin and logistics, co-ordinating instructions - timings)
2. Itemised expenditure list,
3. Table or Organisation and Equipment (TOE),
4. Logistics plan,

Include a mission analysis study/appreciation process if possible (extra points awarded).

Requests for additional funding (to include justification) are to be submitted NLT 1 Jan 09.

Complete OPORD's to be submitted NLT [b]1 Mar 2009.

Notes to all posters;

1. This isn't Off Topic and Humour. If you spam this thread with stupidity, ie, Pirates of the carribean pics, etc. You will be suspended.

2. This thread isn't a X vs Y weapon/equipment/unit pissing contest.

3. If you are going to submit an OPORD, expect to have it picked over with a critical eye. If you're too proud to handle that then don't post anything.

This can be an individual or team effort.

Feel free to post your insights, research and thoughts as you see fit.

Feel free to ask questions and clarify points, however, don't expect all the answers...

A board consisting of BTDT members from The Mess will judge the submissions and rank them in order of merit.

Bonus points will be awarded for originality, initiative, effort put in and theoretical likelyhood of success.


--------------------------------------

Here's a couple of links to get you going.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/so.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1242871/an/0/page/0


Happy hunting.

[scrybe]

Awesome idea. Missed most of the first thread but enjoyed reading through it later.

I'm willing to help with research if anyone needs it.

[Andreas]

I have resources available in the Norwegian diplomatic community who can be convinced to go to Somalia for a humanitarian mission. This will provide some eyes on the ground to get a feel for the situation on the ground.

I also volunteer to set up logistics, i have some friends with an ocean sailer in the area who can drop of a small cache of weapons or a small team of operators via inflatable dingy.

Cheers
Andreas

[Daniel San]

I'll be posting maps and satellite pics shortly of the Area of operations.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3666/largeviewvi1.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/6481/somalia19881mn4.gif
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5761/unosatba8.jpg


http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9088/eylclosernu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Town

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2377/eyltownop5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Google maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=fr&geocode=&q=eyl,+somalie&sll=4.66403,47.636719&sspn=2.852158,4.943848&ie=UTF8&ll=7.980868,49.817569&spn=0.011071,0.019312&t=h&z=16)

Port

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9665/eylportmy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=fr&geocode=&q=eyl,+somalie&sll=4.66403,47.636719&sspn=2.852158,4.943848&ie=UTF8&ll=7.96408,49.846087&spn=0.011072,0.019312&t=h&z=16)

[PUG]

Image of Eyl Town.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9760/134727092daa8d08a01pb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Beach East of Eyl.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2341/610xhz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Hellfish]

How exciting. :)

[LongShot]

Our very own war college operation...sweet. If I can find the time, I will work up a capabilties brief for a operational deployment based on the rules.

[I can't think of a name]

I know you said your intel has to be Open source but would having your own small airship acting like a UAV count?

I think something that people don't talk about for cheap intelligence is Small Airships. Inflate it from you transport ship and have some basic sensors (FLIR) if you want to make head counts.

[Hellfish]

I know you said your intel has to be Open source but would having your own small airship acting like a UAV count?

I think something that people don't talk about for cheap intelligence is Small Airships. Inflate it from you transport ship and have some basic sensors (FLIR) if you want to make head counts.

If it's plausible, why not? You better find out how to obtain one and create a plan for utilizing it.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I know you said your intel has to be Open source but would having your own small airship acting like a UAV count?

I mean what intelligence/information you post here on this thread.

If you can realistically purchase, outfit and employ an airship as a UAV for your plan then have at it.

[LongShot]

I know you said your intel has to be Open source but would having your own small airship acting like a UAV count?

I think something that people don't talk about for cheap intelligence is Small Airships. Inflate it from you transport ship and have some basic sensors (FLIR) if you want to make head counts.


This raises another question, with me at least. Are issues such as controlled items (moving select-fire weapons and items such as FLIR outside of the US or your host nation) a given, or must there also be a detail on how these items are to be legally transported to be detailed?

[Hellfish]

In an effort to maybe streamline this, would someone be willing to provide a geopolitical briefing of our target, maybe? Include things like a short history of the region, why piracy is so prevalent there now, a geographical study of the terrain in and around the objective, potential political ramifications, etc.

That'll put everyone on the same page in regards to what the overall situation is.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

This raises another question, with me at least. Are issues such as controlled items (moving select-fire weapons and items such as FLIR outside of the US or your host nation) a given, or must there also be a detail on how these items are to be legally transported to be detailed?

A given. Obviously small arms in general are fairly easily procured. Tech such as FLIR, ECM, C3I, etc less so.

But as we found in the last thread, you'll be surprised what a little research and ingenuity will get you.

Thinking outside the box is a must in this situation. Don't expect anything to be handed to you on a platter.



In an effort to maybe streamline this, would someone be willing to provide a geopolitical briefing of our target, maybe? Include things like a short history of the region, why piracy is so prevalent there now, a geographical study of the terrain in and around the objective, potential political ramifications, etc.

I considered it, then figured that someone would contribute a link eventually and besides, can't make this too easy to begin with. ;)

[Alfacentori]

This is very cool idea, just a few thoughts

I think one of the key questions is what exactly classifies as 'pirate infrastructure'. From our AO maps we can see the town is split into two parts, that on the coast and that further inland, the potential list of targets that need to be 'neutralised'-excluding enemy personnel- would likely include

-All sea capable craft capable of use in pirate activity
-Heavy transport vehicles
-Repair/Mechanics facilities
-Weapons caches
-Storage facilities (possibly excluding food/water storage to limit impact on non combatants)
-Fuel stores
-Long Range Communications
-Any permenant port facilities/docks etc (although impact will likely be low due to types of craft used)
-Any vehicles capable of pursuing forces upon exfil
-Any heavy weapon emplacements (AAA, HMG's etc)

-Priority targets would obviously also include any key leaders/organisers or targets of opportunity.

This op would have to be split into two simultaneous operations, one on the coastal settlement and one on the main town to limit organised resistance. It would also be wise to provide backup exfil plans to ensure the extraction of all personell if the 1st plan is interrupted due to unforseen problems.

I'm looking forward to see this pan out :)

Alfa

Edit: If anyone wants a hand on a submission or to brainstorm ideas feel free to PM me, I havent served but I can think logically.

[Red-Phos]

Im just posting in here so i can look for this thread on my post.

[LoboCanada]

I agree with Alfa

Also, its to be noted that when trying to free two fremch sailors, French Commandos had to rescue them before reaching lEyl because Eyl was considered to be too dangerous to conduct a rescue operation in. I think we'd have to use the river/stream to get to the inland settlement from the settlement on the coast. Does anyone know the climate and if its dry season. If it was dry season the use of the stream would have to be forgotten. If we were able to use it, it would be a good way to exfil.

Eyl has been turned into a port that is completely focused on Pirate activity, so its safe to say that everyone in the village would be hostile towards anyone trying to disrupt thier way of life. This raid would have to be done very, very quick. Since this place is known to be a pirate haven, any attracting activity would probably be watched by navies trying to disrupt the towns pirate activity.

Some additional reading and sources:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7618142.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7623329.stm

Am I doing this right?

[Karpov360]

Im not too sure on the river/stream and this is from Feb. 23 2006 as noted.

[Hawkeye4077]

It's all but certain that we'd have to use the road connecting the coastal community to the town itself, a journey of about 2.30 miles. There is what appers to be a compound situated on the road about a half mile or so outside of the town that can be commondeered for use as a staging area for when the assault on the town itself begins. We'd have to make this journey at night for concealment and in order to limit the effects of the heat on the team making the run

[LoboCanada]

Thanks for the pic. The river seems big enough for some small boats, rowed (more silent obviously) or small motorboats. I wasn't talking about a frigate or anything.

I saw it too Hawkeye. My point would be that if were to save on cost, we could try to raid the checkpoint on the outskirts of the port settlement, it might have some ammo or even some weapons. Or, if we were in infiltrate silently at night, we could skip past the port settlement completely, row to the main settlement of Eyl, avoid the roads and therefore avoid any patrols or any attention. Destroy our targets in the town and on the way back (using the road this time) hit the port and destroy the boats with explosives on the way out to sea. Assuming we'd leave from the sea.

[USMC68]

I cant get get the size of the map right. I was trying to put grids on it. Oh well.

[Karpov360]

are the thick white lines roads?

[LoboCanada]

Yes^. Anyone like the idea of escaping using some of the pirates boats and destroy the others we aren't using?

[Alfacentori]

Yeah the exfil will be one of the keys to any operation, your choices are really limited to a few options

-Sea-perhaps the best option, as the pirates have no air and once neutralised no sea capability.

-Land foot-not really practible unless to walk out to extract further from the targets and again hostile pursuit.

-Land vehicle-poor roads, to where? and again large number of personnel and pursuit by hostiles

-Air- Air is expensive, especially if you need to move 100+ operators, remember the budget.

Alfa

[Alfacentori]

Yes^. Anyone like the idea of escaping using some of the pirates boats and destroy the others we aren't using?

The problems I see with that is the possible poor condition of the craft and unknown fuel status, very very risky... the best way to extract your people is by the same method use to get them in theatre to start with.

Alfa

[boone]

Alfa beat me to it.

[Chulo]

Im just posting in here so i can look for this thread on my post.
For everyone else, look at "Thread Tools" on the top right of this thread and on the pull down menu you should have a "subscribe to this thread" that you can subscribe without having to post if you want to keep track of this thread.


just to keep it cleaner

[Hellfish]

I'd be willing to bet that there are sentries along that wadi/riverbed. At least you should plan for there being some there.

[Karpov360]

Problem with trying to get small craft up the river, the stream/river "ends" before it reaches the ocean, and if you compare parts of the stream/river to buildings it seems to small,at least 2-5m wide.
Also it should be noted that the photos are from Feb. 2006

[SBL]

Whats the status of the Ethiopians in Somalia? News reports indicate that they're on the verge of withdrawing, but if there are any Ethiopian or AMISOM troops in the neighborhood, they might be persuaded to lend some help for the right price.

[ronnieraygun]

One problem is that you will likely find no friendlies to help you along. It is said that the inhabitants of the town, which is in Puntland, are linked by clan to the government and that everyone in the town benefits economically from piracy. It is also said that they routinely attack aid ships destined to feed them...

Could a raid be facilitated by a fake aid ship? I also noticed hills surrounding the area. Is a helicopter insertion an option there? As Alfa says, it would be cost-prohibitive.

A riverine craft insertion in East Africa is not a likely option.

[ronnieraygun]

Whats the status of the Ethiopians in Somalia? News reports indicate that they're on the verge of withdrawing, but if there are any Ethiopian or AMISOM troops in the neighborhood, they might be persuaded to lend some help for the right price.

Actually, Puntland and Ethiopia have reportedly cooperated as far as Ethiopia's presence in "Somalia" is concerned. The right price might not be had because someone among Ethiopian contacts would likely spill the beans based on prior relationships.

[BlackFlag]

Inserion from helicopter possibly? Would it be possible to buy or lease Mi-8's or other troop carrying helo's from surrounding nations?

Should be a night OP. Using night vision and thermal imaging would be a great force multiplier.

EDIT: I am aware of a 'Black Hawk Down' scenario, as why I said, it should be a night OP.

[boone]

Just a thought: Where do the pirates get their fuel from? By land or by sea?

[Alfacentori]

Couldn't find any Mi8's but these are an example of civilian type helicopters available in southern Africa for purchase.

Eurocopter Ecureuil's, about 1.5mil $US each, carry capacity 6 plus crew and about a 500km range I think.

http://www.globalplanesearch.com/gpsads/ads/ad_eurocopter-as350b2_sn-3418.htm

http://www.globalplanesearch.com/gpsads/ads/ad_eurocopter-as350b3_sn-3295.htm

If hired you have to consider finding trained and willing pilots, wages, range etc plus risk vs reward of this type of insertion, i.e noise, risk to fire etc

Alfa

[Chulo]

Stupid question, but is there insurance cost on items that are hired or bought?

[BloodyTalon]

In an effort to maybe streamline this, would someone be willing to provide a geopolitical briefing of our target, maybe? Include things like a short history of the region, why piracy is so prevalent there now, a geographical study of the terrain in and around the objective, potential political ramifications, etc.

That'll put everyone on the same page in regards to what the overall situation is.
Well some guys have already mentioned the basic issue that Eyl has essentially allied itself with the pirates due to economic reasons, but i can still write down a brief of the geopolitical issues with the town and the pirates if anyone is still interested.

[ronnieraygun]

If hired you have to consider finding trained and willing pilots, wages, range etc plus risk vs reward of this type of insertion, i.e noise, risk to fire etc

Alfa

Would it be a safe assumption that Eritrea would have trained pilots willing to go into Puntland? I'm assuming Djibouti would have few trained pilots competent enough to pick from for something like this.

[CreepingDeath]

Just a thought: Where do the pirates get their fuel from? By land or by sea?

most of their boats they use are motorized thus they use diesel fuel in which they get it from land

[BlackFlag]

UPDATE

This site offers a few different Russian designed Helo's ranging from Mi-8's to unarmed Mi-24's available for purchase or lease. Prices aren't bad.

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/russianhelicopter1.htm

EDIT: Also, Where would be a good spot for a base of operations.

[CreepingDeath]

Inserion from helicopter possibly? Would it be possible to buy or lease Mi-8's or other troop carrying helo's from surrounding nations?

Should be a night OP. Using night vision and thermal imaging would be a great force multiplier.

EDIT: I am aware of a 'Black Hawk Down' scenario, as why I said, it should be a night OP.
here's my humble contribution

helicopters are somewhat effective IMO but their noise can be heard from a distance alerting nearby militias. IMO mission would be compromise

(question: does Mi-8's produce a loud rotor noise?)

but H.A.L.O. jump would be best

pardon me in advance if I make a mistake.

[Alfacentori]

Would it be a safe assumption that Eritrea would have trained pilots willing to go into Puntland? I'm assuming Djibouti would have few trained pilots competent enough to pick from for something like this.

I would think so, either that or wk on the assumption that group/company willing to undetake this type of op has the contacts to find some exmil pilots for hire.

Alfa

[BlackFlag]

helicopters are somewhat effective IMO but their noise can be heard from a distance alerting nearby militias. IMO mission would be compromise

(question: does Mi-8's produce a loud rotor noise?)

but H.A.L.O. jump would be best


Finding a large number of HALO certified shooters would be difficult. Also, how would they be extracted?

[junglejim]

If you can find time and money, you can send me to training and I'll fly any damned helo you want. As long as you promise me a hot LZ, ass whippin, and big chance of dying. I'm your man.

[BlackFlag]

Would it be a safe assumption that Eritrea would have trained pilots willing to go into Puntland? I'm assuming Djibouti would have few trained pilots competent enough to pick from for something like this.

The site I posted offers to lease helo's with the option of using their pilots.

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/russianhelicopterlease.htm

[Red-Phos]

Does anyone no where i can get a prices for certain weapons?

[boone]

most of their boats they use are motorized thus they use diesel fuel in which they get it from land
Yeah, I didn't think they were sailing up to tankers and then boarding them.
What I'm asking is: How easy would it be to interdict their fuel supply? It might take a little longer to see results but it might be a helluva lot cheaper than doing some Secret Squirrel Commando raid with dodgy helos or a Riverine insertion during the dry season.

[junglejim]

Does anyone no where i can get a prices for certain weapons?


I heard Thailand is the best place for weapons hunting.

[BlackFlag]

Reguarding site's lease policy/price

1/. Type of helicopter required & dates when required.
2/. Prospective place of where the helicopter/s will be based--city and country?
3/. Specifications of the work to be carried out by your organization.
4/. A Guarantee of a minimum number of hours per month per each helicopter? Please state if possible the max monthly hours you intend to use per month-MIN 50 HOURS.
5/. Number of helicopters you wish to aquire for your work?
6/. Under whose flag the helicopter/s will fly?
7/. Do you require our pilots to fly the said missions or will you supply
these as well.
8/. Logistical staff required /support staff.

9/. Terms of lease period wanted please?

10/. Any other relative information and needs you may require

One operated Aircraft shall be supported by one set of Russian crew. Each crew
consists of:
Pilot-in-Command: 2 persons
Flight Engineer: 1 person
Ground Engineer: 2 persons


Basic condition
Quantity available: ......................
Year of manufacture: past ..................
Year of last overhaul:.....................
Condition: as new or used
Modification: Ka-32A
Lease rate: ACMI US$ 2550 - 3500 per block hour?? THIS VARIES
includes US$ 2400 net rate
plus US$ 150 operational costs of using water cannon simplex system and infra-red avionics.
Lease period: up to three years, can be extended
Limitation on block hours per day/month: no

[CreepingDeath]

Finding a large number of HALO certified shooters would be difficult. Also, how would they be extracted?

depends on where the location is at. if the target area is near the border of ethiopia or Kenya, they'll have to cross border.

also, it maybe suitable if they'll be extracted near kenyan waters. Chinook water extraction perhaps?

[BlackFlag]

depends on where the location is at. if the target area is near the border of ethiopia or Kenya, they'll have to cross border.

also, it maybe suitable if they'll be extracted near kenyan waters. Chinook water extraction perhaps?

HALO would cost probably be less cost efficient than helo insertion, especially if the extract will be by helo ( Also, a Chinook may be hard to come by). If you already have the helo, you might as well use it both ways.

[Alfacentori]

A few Naval options for people


79m Fishing Trawler, $1,450,000USD
http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/1970/Custom-Fishing-Trawler-1958692/South-Africa

18m Freezer/trawler craft, $185,000USD
http://www.apolloduck.co.za/feature.phtml?id=73258

42m Trawler, $495,000USD
http://www.apolloduck.co.za/feature.phtml?id=22333

All in South Africa and ready to ship your seaborne assault forces into theatre.

Alfa

[boone]

also, it maybe suitable if they'll be extracted near kenyan waters. Chinook water extraction perhaps?
Yeah, because there's a ****-load of Chinooks sitting around doing nothing.

[CreepingDeath]

Yeah, I didn't think they were sailing up to tankers and then boarding them.
What I'm asking is: How easy would it be to interdict their fuel supply? It might take a little longer to see results but it might be a helluva lot cheaper than doing some Secret Squirrel Commando raid with dodgy helos or a Riverine insertion during the dry season.

well I have no clue about that. to be honest I begin to have the same question as to what you have right now. all I know is that most of the boats they've used are pretty "homemade". correct me if Im wrong

[Hellfish]

Yeah, because there's a ****-load of Chinooks sitting around doing nothing.

Hahahaha...

[junglejim]

How about painting the helo in UN livery so as not to arouse suspiscion?

[Hellfish]

How about painting the helo in UN livery so as not to arouse suspiscion?

Get out of this thread. You're an idiot.

[CreepingDeath]

How about painting the helo in UN livery so as not to arouse suspiscion?

militias would still shoot at them. same thing happened to those Pakistani UN troops in mogadishu being butchered back in '92 (or '93)

[Red-Phos]

Going by sea:They will have lads stagging on around the coast etc.So by the time you land they have a QRF/RRF there to welcome you.There are 2 Airstrips the closest is 140k away.
But a Extraction by sea is a good idea.

[BlackFlag]

militias would still shoot at them. same thing happened to those Pakistani UN troops in mogadishu being butchered back in '92 (or '93)

Not to mention, that would be illegal

[BlackFlag]

Going by sea:They will have lads stagging on around the coast etc.So by the time you land they have a QRF/RRF there to welcome you.There are 2 Airstrips the closest is 140k away.

Where are they located? link?

[CreepingDeath]

HALO would cost probably be less cost efficient than helo insertion, especially if the extract will be by helo ( Also, a Chinook may be hard to come by). If you already have the helo, you might as well use it both ways.

that would be effective also regarding that you mention that its hard to find shooters who are HALO trained.

but the problem is: target point is at Eyl, Nugaal which is, a hundred miles north of Kenya, and a couple of miles away from the Ethiopian border. pirates are patrolling the waters.

[boone]

How about painting the helo in UN livery so as not to arouse suspiscion?
I think the UN might have a problem with that.
Gentlemen, This is going to be a water-born insertion or a hellacious stroll.
The unreliability of helicopters available, as well as dubious pilots rules that option out, doesn't it?

[BlackFlag]

I think the UN might have a problem with that.
Gentlemen, This is going to be a water-born insertion or a hellacious stroll.
The unreliability of helicopters available, as well as dubious pilots rules that option out, doesn't it?

Why are they unreliable? How are the pilots "dubious"?

If I remember, Executive Outcomes used Russian helicopters quite successfully.

[Albatross]

Could we capture an airfield and use it for insertion?

[junglejim]

Get out of this thread. You're an idiot.



militias would still shoot at them. same thing happened to those Pakistani UN troops in mogadishu being butchered back in '92 (or '93)

So far the answer here point to a helo insertion and extract. Other governments already gave the virtual go ahead as a premise, and Andreas even proposed a Norwegian team acting intel, with humanitarian mission as cover. Which is already one step in the mud of a basic violation of a UN code somewhere, why not go full on and pretend its a humanitarian mission by having a UN helo.

The UN uses hinds in some of their missions so I dont think it will create too much suspiscion. Sure they will be taking potshots at the helo, but I dont think it will be in the same volume as an umarked helo with no markings at all.

I might be an idiot but Im not the one that proposed an insert via Chinook.

Didnt see Boones, reply while typing this message. Ignore

[Red-Phos]

Where are they located? link?
One is El Gaan and the other is Ambalio.But they will both have have lads on them as im sure they use them for errrrrrr bad stuff.

[Karpov360]

If a helo insertion is planned , what are the chances the warships from foreign nations will pick them up on radar? unless they have tipped off on the raid, surley they could pose a problem....

[BlackFlag]

One is El Gaan and the other is Ambalio.But they will both have have lads on them as im sure they use them for errrrrrr bad stuff.

I'd have to look at the distance on a map, but you could get up to 1,600km out of an Mi-8T with the right modifications.

Long-range modification: AEFT (Auxilliary External Fuel Tanks) by Aeroton adds another 1,900 litres in two internal tanks, plus same quantity in four external tanks on the stores pylons of the Mi-8T and Mi-8AT. Operational range with all six tanks is 1,100km; ferry range 1,600km.

Would there be a possibility of getting Djbouti, or Ethiopia to host the op?

[CreepingDeath]

So far the answer here point to a helo insertion and extract. Other governments already gave the virtual go ahead as a premise, and Andreas even proposed a Norwegian team acting intel, with humanitarian mission as cover. Which is already one step in the mud of a basic violation of a UN code somewhere, why not go full on and pretend its a humanitarian mission by having a UN helo.

The UN uses hinds in some of their missions so I dont think it will create too much suspiscion. Sure they will be taking potshots at the helo, but I dont think it will be in the same volume as an umarked helo with no markings at all.

I might be an idiot but Im not the one that proposed an insert via Chinook.

Didnt see Boones, reply while typing this message. Ignore

the UN uses Hind?

Chinook insertion could be crucial but effective. its quick but dangerous IMO
IF our hired shooters are incapable in HALO.

[CreepingDeath]

If a helo insertion is planned , what are the chances the warships from foreign nations will pick them up on radar? unless they have tipped off on the raid, surley they could pose a problem....

a nearby amphibious ship could be one. chinooks could take off and land from there.

[BlackFlag]

a nearby amphibious ship could be one. chinooks could take off and land from there.

CreepingDeath, not to be disrespectful, but Chinooks and HALO drops are out of the question.

[boone]

No.1 Ships found in situ are going to require inspection. The pilots aren't climbing into anything that hasn't been.
Chances are, some of those ships are going to fail at flying.
Not good for timings.


If I remember, Executive Outcomes used Russian helicopters quite successfully.
EO also operated and maintained their own fleet, as well as crewed them.
Quite a difference from showing up and commandeering helicopters.

[Red-Phos]

I am not going to be involving and of the surrounding countries,not worth the money.
Maybe Halo'in in lads to set up OP's and do a CTR.

[CreepingDeath]

CreepingDeath, not to be disrespectful, but Chinooks and HALO drops are out of the question.

ok, I guess I got waay overboard. Im just chipping in my 2 cents.

sorry.

[BloodyTalon]

Okay, I have completed a brief of the geopolitical situation in the region for anyone that is interested in why piracy is so widespread in Eyl and Puntland and why the Somali government has essentially sat on their arses when it comes to solving the problem:



Eyl is a coastal town located in the northern part of the semi-autonomous Puntland region in Somalia. Before the large rise in piracy in Somalia, Eyl was just one of many poor fishing towns that inhabited the coast. Their economy was far from prosperous and was especially hindered by the general anarchy that has been prevalent in the state as well as other disasters such as the 2004 Tsunami.

Piracy in Somalia and especially the Puntland region has been steadily increasing since the civil war in the 90’s due to the country’s strategic vicinity to the Gulf of Aden and the lack of a strong, centralized government with an interest in stopping the pirates. There was a brief drop in piracy during the brief period when the Islamic Courts Commission was in charge of the majority of Somalia, but quickly resumed after the ICC’s defeat by combined forces of the Ethiopian military and the current Somali government. As everyone knows, it has grown to the point that the pirates have become a serious disruptive force in the region. There have been well-publicized attempts to combat the pirates by mainly western governments, but since there hasn’t been any operations conducted against safe havens such as Eyl, these deterrents will have very little effect on the problem.

The major problem with conducting a military operation against the pirates situated in Eyl is that neither the local government nor the national government(s) has an interest in ending the pirates. On the contrary, evidence points to both governments benefiting from the pirates’ activity to the point that it would be in their best interests not to crack down on them. Eyl’s economy has boomed as a result of the pirates’ activity and in many cases is now being centered around their operations. For example, restaurants are being built up specifically to cater to crews of the ships that are hijacked.

As well as the local government in Eyl deliberately supporting the pirates, there is evidence that the governments of both Puntland and Somalia as a whole will not do anything to stop the pirates. The reasons behind this are both economic and cultural. Firstly, a report by the UN that has come out this year that piracy in the Puntland region have generated an income of $30 million, about $10 million more than rest of Puntland’s economy. Also, it is very important to note that many of the current officials in the government of Somalia have tribal connections to Puntland and even Eyl itself. The current presidents of Somalia and Puntland, the prime minister, and minister of defense are all part of the Majeerteen tribe, which makes up the majority of the populace in Eyl. This tribal link, combined with the aforementioned economic boon that the pirates have created, it is extremely unlikely that we’ll be able to get local support from the governments of Eyl, Puntland, and Somalia itself.

From this information, I have two conclusions about the operation: First, its going to have to be conducted outside of Somalia. I recommend either Eithopia, Djibouti, or Yemen. Second, because of how much support the pirates have in the town, I doubt 120 are going to be enough to destroy the infrastructure and operations of the pirates. Its likely that most of the fighting is going to be against a large, asymmetrical force similar to what the US faced in Mogadishu and most of Iraq. I suggest a change is made to the conditions so that more personnel can be used in the operation.

[BlackFlag]

No.1 Ships found in situ are going to require inspection. The pilots aren't climbing into anything that hasn't been.
Chances are, some of those ships are going to fail at flying.
Not good for timings.


If I remember, Executive Outcomes used Russian helicopters quite successfully.
EO also operated and maintained their own fleet, as well as crewed them.
Quite a difference from showing up and commandeering helicopters.
No one said showing up and comandeering helicopters. If you would have read previous posts, I supplied a link in which leasing of well maintained helicopters and crew are advertised.

[Karpov360]

Question, what type of boats/ships that have been hijacked are brought to eyl? surley it cant be big ship due to the lack of a port, anyone know any ships that have been brought here?

[Alfacentori]

I think a few peopleare forgetting the budget here, its 25 mil $US, thats for everything, gear, weapons, transport, pay for the PMC's, bribes if necessary--- everything!

The best plans are kept simple, flashy doesnt always mean best, just more things that can go wrong.

A few other points
-MI6, CIA etc have signed off on the deal, so the warships off coast wont hinder ops but wont aide them either.
-Due to size of towns, distances to cover and potential enemy numbers a large team(s) is required, this means larger transport and logistics costs/problems.

Alfa

[boone]

No one said showing up and comandeering helicopters. If you would have read previous posts, I supplied a link in which leasing of well maintained helicopters and crew are advertised.
To what standard have these crews been trained? Have they been trained on night vision? Can they operate on night vision? Will you get the crews that are advertised? "Well maintained" by whose standard? Have you got the fuel to get them into theater? Do you have the fuel to get them out? Do you have an SAR plan?
Too many questions.......

[CreepingDeath]

Question, what type of boats/ships that have been hijacked are brought to eyl? surley it cant be big ship due to the lack of a port, anyone know any ships that have beem brought here?

A French Yacht AFAIK but wasnt docked. if a bigger shipped was hijacked, they'll just take their loot and hostage then leave the boat.

[Karpov360]

Ok thanks......I will post some satellite photos shortly

[ronnieraygun]

-MI6, CIA etc have signed off on the deal, so the warships off coast wont hinder ops but wont aide them either.
-Due to size of towns, distances to cover and potential enemy numbers a large team(s) is required, this means larger transport and logistics costs/problems.

Alfa

If CIA has signed off on the deal, could we get Camp Lemonier as a base of operations/training/staging/logistics center? There are already plenty of foreign faces running around there and IIRC it's supposed to be staging for East African anti-terror ops, so it's not as if a presence there would arouse too much suspicion in the region as opposed to setting up a camp in Puntland or further north in Eritrea.

[ronnieraygun]

A French Yacht AFAIK but wasnt docked. if a bigger shipped was hijacked, they'll just take their loot and hostage then leave the boat.


this happens all the time, IIRC their biggest haul to date was an oil tanker last month. they can hold the crew for ransom and take some gold watches, but there is no way they are getting that big sucker back to town. it's not as if they are showing up at the nearest port saying "here, buy our oil," either.

Not to digress, gentlemen, but IIRC they have dozens upon dozens of hostages in the town as we speak and dozens of smaller commercial craft they have commandered.

[Alfacentori]

If CIA has signed off on the deal, could we get Camp Lemonier as a base of operations/training/staging/logistics center? There are already plenty of foreign faces running around there and IIRC it's supposed to be staging for East African anti-terror ops, so it's not as if a presence there would arouse too much suspicion in the region as opposed to setting up a camp in Puntland or further north in Eritrea.

This is what Ngati said in the Op Plan

"Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces. "

So no external support, were on our own on this one

Alfa

[ronnieraygun]

This is what Ngati said in the Op Plan

"Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces. "

So no external support, were on our own on this one

Alfa

Ahh, well, I guess saying "hey, can we use your range?" certainly qualifies as support. For shame...thanks for the clarification, though - it is essential that people come back to the boilerplate rules or this will turn into another 80 page digressive wankfest.

[C.Fodder]

Oh Boy is this great !!

How about beach invasion, sea going ferries that can beach and back out shouldnt be too rare . Maybe even an old LST..
Save that helicopter money for some 2nd hand AFV,s.

[BlackFlag]

This is what Ngati said in the Op Plan

"Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces. "

So no external support, were on our own on this one

Alfa


The main thing that's bugging me about this sim is "no support from external forces". I don't see how you could conduct this raid by land, sea, or air without any support. Too many international laws, regulations. Conducting a raid like this with no support would basically be illegal and unfeasible. I'd like Ngati to possibly give some latitude on that aspect.

[ronnieraygun]

-Another thing to consider regarding planning:

It is said that this area is actually rich in cel phone towers and it is some of the cheapest telecom to be had in most of Africa. Is is safe to assume that communication among possible defenders would be extremely efficient such that the operation should include destroying nearby cel phone towers?

-Most places like this had shoddy copper-pair telephony and the copper wire would get jacked. It proved a lot easier to build a cel phone tower or two instead lay a bunch of telephone poles and such.

[ronnieraygun]

The main thing that's bugging me about this sim is "no support from external forces". I don't see how you could conduct this raid by land, sea, or air without any support. Too many international laws, regulations. Conducting a raid like this with no support would basically be illegal and unfeasible. I'd like Ngati to possibly give some latitude on that aspect.

I guess there isn't any. Fullstop. But at the risk of more wankfest digression, yes, there are naval vessels from Malaysia and Canada and others in the area - however, for purposes of the exercise, we are to assume that they won't bat an eyelash.

[Alfacentori]

Ahh, well, I guess saying "hey, can we use your range?" certainly qualifies as support. For shame...thanks for the clarification, though - it is essential that people come back to the boilerplate rules or this will turn into another 80 page digressive wankfest.

Yeah I know but we have to wk with what we have not what we wish we had I guess.

-I would keep it simple, a sea insertion from a trawler via inflatibles or scuba in darkness
-1 team hikes in and hits the main town while a 2nd hits the coastal settlement at a coordinated time.
-Both extract by foot a short distance down the coast using NVG's and cover sniper fire to avoid and pursuit to where a smaller fall back team has the exfil boats covered with snipers and MG's.

This is of course a gross simplification, tactical planning and weapons loadout would be crucial and in depth to achieve a rapid strike in and out.

Alfa

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I'd like Ngati to possibly give some latitude on that aspect.

No.

As stated already, Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces.

Hint: Instead of wanking over equipment first and foremost, figure out what your intent is first, what you intend to achieve, then figure how to achieve it.

[BlackFlag]

Yeah I know but we have to wk with what we have not what we wish we had I guess.

-I would keep it simple, a sea insertion from a trawler via inflatibles or scuba in darkness
-1 team hikes in and hits the main town while a 2nd hits the coastal settlement at a coordinated time.
-Both extract by foot a short distance down the coast using NVG's and cover sniper fire to avoid and pursuit to where a smaller fall back team has the exfil boats covered with snipers and MG's.

This is of course a gross simplification, tactical planning and weapons loadout would be crucial and in depth to achieve a rapid strike in and out.

Alfa

Assuming the insertion you mentioned with RIB's are used. It looks like there is a pretty promising cliff section just southeast of the town center, it would probably be pretty good for any observation, sniper/MG positions.

[Karpov360]

Here are some photos.....

[ggk]

i m thinking something unconventional, instead or predictable air insertion or surgical strike.

and im wondering of the attacking force casualties, at what point (or percentage of casualties) do we want to push the attack untill the casualties become unacceptable.

[ronnieraygun]

Hint: Instead of wanking over equipment first and foremost, figure out what your intent is first, what you intend to achieve, then figure how to achieve it.

If the intent is to beat up on some pirates, it seems like there might be quite a bit of collateral damage, contrary to New Zealand Soldier's boilerplate. This is quite challenging! It would be nice if you could get every last one of them to chug out on their little boats and blast away, but I suppose some of the targets will be right there, chilling among the locals.

[boone]

No.

As stated already, Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces.

Hint: Instead of wanking over equipment first and foremost, figure out what your intent is first, what you intend to achieve, then figure how to achieve it.
My intent is to curtail piracy and go home with as much of that 25 mil in my pocket as possible. I still say interdict the pirate's fuel supply.

[Karpov360]

Sniper point SE of town

[ronnieraygun]

A cabal of 'business' interests have employed you to plan and prepare a raid to neutralise the effect that pirates activity is having on their bottom line.


Hey Ngati, as a fair question, does neutralizing this effect include any asset recovery? Are we to provide for steaming away with a few boats while we're at it or does neutralizing the effect they have on the bottom line only include decimating their ranks and taking out some bosses?



Intent

Organize a raid on the Town of Eyl on the Somali coast and it's surrounding area in order to destroy pirate infrastructure and neutralise pirate operations.


[EDIT] Never mind. I have my answer. I will just leave the "intent" part out here for the benefit of all.

[BloodyTalon]

The problem is that you can't destroy the pirates' infrastructure without destroying the infrastructure of Eyl itself. I seriously believe we need more funds and especially more men if we want to have a lasting effect on the pirates activity. For now, the closest i can suggest is a raid on the ports with the intent of taking any captures vessels while destroying the rest and destroying any piers as wells.

[ronnieraygun]

The problem is that you can't destroy the pirates' infrastructure without destroying the infrastructure of Eyl itself. I seriously believe we need more funds and especially more men if we want to have a lasting effect on the pirates activity. For now, the closest i can suggest is a raid on the ports with the intent of taking any captures vessels while destroying the rest and destroying any piers as wells.

Well, go back to the briefing again. It says Eyl. One town. There are other towns from which pirates take off, but this one says Eyl. Also, it didn't say anything about taking captured vessels. I read that, as well.

I enjoyed reading your summary, well done.

[ronnieraygun]

All information/intelligence used is to be open source.


-This probably bears repeating.


I should also point out that there is a lot of stuff online that seems to indicate that private security firms are talking with different firms and entities right now regarding this very subject, of course. It would be interesting to see what someone comes up with.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

If the intent is to beat up on some pirates, it seems like there might be quite a bit of collateral damage, contrary to New Zealand Soldier's boilerplate.


Your point being?

[ronnieraygun]

Your point being?

-That limiting collateral damage is a big challenge given the circumstances. I thought that was clear.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

-That limiting collateral damage is a big challenge given the circumstances. I thought that was clear.

The whole enterprise is full of challenges.

Limiting collateral damage is just one of many.

Of course no one is forcing you to partake...

[ronnieraygun]

The whole enterprise is full of challenges.

Limiting collateral damage is just one of many.

Of course no one is forcing you to partake...

Au contraire. I was just in the chorus of doubting Thomases for a bit trying to figure out some things. Your list of requirements is quite clear after reading them the 10th time and kudos and thanks if you came up with this yourself. I'm looking forward to it!

[TheKiwi]

Well from the photos and satellite maps, the port really doesn't have much in the way of infrastructure to destroy. Spending $25 million to destroy a town that wouldn't be worth that much even if you melted down everyones gold teeth doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

A right bastards way of looking at things, one who didn't care too much about civilian casualties would be to mount a campaign with land mines on the roads in and out of the place. A few of those and the supplies of diesel fuel coming in could start to dry up.

While this might achieve the objection, even if damaged/destroyed beyond the point of economic pirate use, I suspect that the next town down the coast will become a pirate mecca instead.

So the "real" objectives might be more like "give an object lesson why you should not be a pirate". At this point, I'm not sure what direction this should take. More thoughts to come.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Well from the photos and satellite maps, the port really doesn't have much in the way of infrastructure to destroy. Spending $25 million to destroy a town that wouldn't be worth that much even if you melted down everyones gold teeth doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

It would if you calculated how much pirate activity had cost businesses over the last ten years. Even a cursory tally of the nett effect will come out at rather more than 25 mil. The ransom for the Sirius Star alone was up to US$25 mil last time I checked. That stretch of coast line has raked in a couple of hundred mil this year alone by conservative accounts.

The town in and of itself is worth nothing. It's the effect that counts...

Anyway, if you don't like it don't bother posting.

[TheKiwi]

I didn't say I didn't like it - quite the opposite. And I agree, it has to be done for the effect. If all you're doing to smashing some fuel pumps and wooden boats, then you're not giving the right lesson.

Hmm, wonders aloud. How many boats in port at anyone time? How are they tied up/anchored? Need to do some research.

[junglejim]

It would if you calculated how much pirate activity had cost businesses over the last ten years. Even a cursory tally of the nett effect will come out at rather more than 25 mil.

The town in and of itself is worth nothing. It's the effect that counts...


Ngati,

What's a tolerable amount of collateral damage? I mean if the town is not worth much the best way to go would be to teach them a hard lesson. Now this might come in a not so precision type of attack, hence some civilians will definately be mowed down.


I know Im an amateur when it comes to this things so I really cant see the entire picture. Judging from the budget, Ethiopia and even parts of Somalia has attack choppers and theres some mercenary pilots already flying them in the continent. At $25 million, theres plenty of bribe money to go around for say an Air base commander from these two nations to "lease" several aircrafts. Have some team lay low on the ground to observe the area to find out the places where the pirate bosses stay or hang out at exact moments. Then send out these choppers to attack those specific areas. You might not kill them all and it would be a bit messy, but definately a message will be sent.

Now I know its pretty cool to have a commando raid, using ex D3LT@ L33t people and what not, but as soon as **** hits the fan, and soldiers... white soldiers, start dying, thats a far more of a PR or News nightmare than a smoking town who nobody gives a **** about.

- Mogadishu
- PMC in Iraq
- Iran hostage rescue

Also, these pirates seem to be a community and according to the news the community benefits from piracy, dont you guys think then that the community would be the weakest link in this group. Make it costly for the community, and they will stop supporting these guys, who knows might actually stop them from operating in their areas.

[Alfacentori]

Just a thought for those who are planning and scheming submissions, intelligence is key and there is no intel like eyes on the target.
It might be worth it, if you can wk it into your budget, to deploy a couple of 2 man recon/sniper teams early (maybe the day before) to get eyes on the objectives and report back on enemy activity, patrols, potential threats, targets, vehicle movements etc.
This would allow you to better execute your assault and pinpoint threat buildings, such as those occupied by armed militias, that need to be 'neutralised' in the 1st moments of the attack.

Edit: This of course greatly increases the risk but it also gives your real time intel to wk with.

Alfa

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Ngati,

What's a tolerable amount of collateral damage?

Somewhere between no dead civi's and an ashen smear where Eyl used to be.

Common sense should dictate. A scorched earth massacre will not be accepted by the international community but there's is always a 'reasonable' threshhold...


At $25 million, theres plenty of bribe money to go around for say an Air base commander from these two nations to "lease" several aircrafts.

Read the first post again, it's real clear.


white soldiers, start dying, thats a far more of a PR or News nightmare than a smoking town who nobody gives a **** about.

Who said they are 'soldiers' and who said they are to be white?


Also, these pirates seem to be a community and according to the news the community benefits from piracy, dont you guys think then that the community would be the weakest link in this group. Make it costly for the community, and they will stop supporting these guys, who knows might actually stop them from operating in their areas.

Interesting. Develop it more. Keep asking "so what?".

[Dispatcher]

Sorry for the sh*tty quality and the music, but all eyes on town are needed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT-Yxs9kI0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5-9IvFz5uo


http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-150736

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/nov/19/1

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-150775



PDF alert!; http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/fullMaps_Af.nsf/luFullMap/138FA04683BB219DC1257515003716BD/$File/unosat_SEC_som081102.pdf?OpenElement

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-12-10-somali-piracy-backed-by-international-network <<<--Something to keep in mind.

[paracrusader]

So, to simplify things here, this operation will basically have 4 stages:

1. Preparation, the most mundane but complicated phase, planning it all out, and in this case, researching and planning for logistics.

2. Inflitration: How to get there, and contingency plans

3. Actions on the objective: We know what we want to achieve here, so it's a matter of figuring out how to do it. This seems almost too easy.

4. Exfiltration: How to get out once you are done, and contingency plans

Any kind of high-tech "sexy" infil may sound cool, but will overly complicate things. HALO is out of the question. It's been already pointed out, the difficulty of finding enough personnel who are qualified, but the cost of equipment alone would be staggering if you were able to find enough personnel. Helicopter transport seems possible, but not for the required number of personnel to actually action on this target, and the cost would be prohibitive. Overland travel by the required number of personnel would be impossible to hide. From the sea seems to be the only viable option. Any mix of these overcomplicates the mission.

One suggestion, which has already been touched on. Within 24 hours of your main effort actually moving on the objective, emplace several teams to observe the target. Keep in mind, the longer they are there, the greater the chance of being compromised, and you must have a contingency plan in the event that happens. They would be able to provide supporting fires as well.

Another thing to point out, when organizing your force, this is a raid, and you will need to: first, isolate the target to prevent anyone from leaving or from external interference while you go to work (security). Second, you will need to actually enter and clear this village, in order to avoid collateral damage and to ensure the desired effects (assault). And third, when you have an element actually moving onto an objective like that, you will have to provide support, whether it is by fires or by overwatch (support). I think machineguns would be adequate, but perhaps a few recoilless rifles. Mortars are a possibilty, but may be cost-prohibative, and too difficult to move. Just a few thoughts.

I am really into this whole idea.

[lightfire]

As for maps:

any idea what this compound is?

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7629/eyl1ld1.jpg

seems to be quite new, luxurious, and thus important. Don't think that's just a humble home of honest businessman.

Now, Eyl is important, but as there are no other similar pirate ports around, there is one, a bit further south. Might be a fishing village, but rece would be a nice thing

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3337/eyl2lp8.jpg

And finally, the reinforcements. Pirates might have them, since they do have sophisticated communications as we know already. The closest important bigger setllement, the help might come from is Garoowe, that about 200+ km, some hours drive to Eyl. Might be useful to create blocking positions at the connecting roads after or even during the operation. (also - mines, ****y traps?)

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4908/eyl3ta4.jpg

as for infiltration. In posted videos we could see goats. Great chance goat herders will be around, as well as kids, thus causing a danger for any rece force prior the main invassion.

[scrybe]

I'm going to reiterate what Ngati pointed out a couple pages ago: there needs to be a goal before a plan can be created.

If the intent is to destroy/disrupt piracy, are you just going to kill off a bunch of low-level thugs? Or would you rather strike the higher ups in the Pirate organization?

If you plan on toppling an organization, is it more efficient to just kill of the heads (who could be replaced), or control their transfer of money? It's extremely doubtful all the ransom money is staying in Eyl. Would operations to take down the real movers and shakers need to occur prior to/simultaneously to those in Eyl? (This could very well be out of the scope of this project.)

And finally, if you are going to strike just heads of pirate organizations in Eyl, how are you going to find and identify them? Is it assumed they are already identified and located? Or will you have to plan to have scouts on the ground and spies that can infiltrate and explore the pirate organizations? This will require time.

Some things to think about.

[Dispatcher]

I'm going to reiterate what Ngati pointed out a couple pages ago: there needs to be a goal before a plan can be created.

One of the links i posted kinda outlays the pirate's organogram.. Its an organisation that doesnt really have a head, it relies on family, tribal and business ties. And it can change in a matter of hours if one of the parties is taken out of the equiasion. Therefore i think the goal should be; A punitive strike on the footsoldiers.


If you plan on toppling an organization, is it more efficient to just kill of the heads (who could be replaced), or control their transfer of money? It's extremely doubtful all the ransom money is staying in Eyl. Would operations to take down the real movers and shakers need to occur prior to/simultaneously to those in Eyl? (This could very well be out of the scope of this project.)

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-12-10-somali-piracy-backed-by-international-network

I think thats a no-go. Too big to handle without proper government support. Which we dont have.


And finally, if you are going to strike just heads of pirate organizations in Eyl, how are you going to find and identify them? Is it assumed they are already identified and located? Or will you have to plan to have scouts on the ground and spies that can infiltrate and explore the pirate organizations? This will require time.

I think id'ing the targets is going to proof the most difficult task. We cant really walk in and kill every man above 16 and under 80, now can we? (Well, we could.. But where is the challenge in that?)



Some things to think about.

Its a hell of a lot less easy then i first thought...

[paracrusader]

With 120 personnel, it's going to be difficult to do anything more than a quick raid. I like the idea of interdicting their supplies, but how long could you really do that for without maintaining a presence? I think the intent here is to send a message with a violent raid - if you participate in or support piracy, there will be consequences. In the process, we may be able to destroy supplies, damage their infrastructure, and kill some high-level guys, but not in any large, meaningful way. If we destroy their fuel supplies in this one town, what will the effects be? If we capture or destroy some weapons, I think there is no shortage of those in this area. If we burn it to the ground, yes, we have attacked their infrastructure and prevented them from operating from this particular village, but at what cost? I think an unacceptable one from any perspective. Destroying a large number of boats would probably be the most effective way of attacking their ability to conduct further operations, but our task, specifically, is to conduct a raid on this village. I think our goal should be to simply conduct a raid with the intent of killing or incapacitating as many pirates as possible. But, there lies another problem: you enter this town at night, everyone is most likely sleeping. Maybe there's guards, maybe not. But do we just go door-to-door, executing every military-aged male? Or do we instigate a fight, let them come to us, duke it out for a bit, then withdraw? Neither seems very feasable or, ummm, legal. The second option would put our raiding force in a position where they would be on the defensive, something we do not want. That's a pretty important thing to figure out here, but I think, basically, we know what we want to do here.

Here's my thought on this. Conduct a smaller raid on the nearby coastal community, with the sole intent of destroying boats. It does not need to be spectacular, just some demo or some hand grenades, destroy as many as you can with a force only large enough to defend itself and fight it's way out if need be. Prior to initiating that, have an ambush in place in between the two villages, and attack any force that reacts from the objective area. Anything more ambitious just does not seem feasible with the size of the force. As a secondary objective, target any identifiable caches or fuel supplies.

[paracrusader]

A punitive strike on the footsoldiers.

Wow, we posted at just about the same time!p-)

[paracrusader]

I think id'ing the targets is going to proof the most difficult task. We cant really walk in and kill every man above 16 and under 80, now can we? (Well, we could.. But where is the challenge in that?)

Exactly what I am saying!

[CombatBoots]

Chopping a head in that region means another one taking his place on top, you would just have promoted somebody.

About information, the people there are most likely ready for a deal, how much cash can you set aside to get them to cooperate. Also leaders tend to stand out, if you have the time to observe, watch any "unusual" cars, a man with bodyguards, a man with a nice gun. Then you have a suspect, on that you can build and find out more details.

In my opinion you need to starve the operations of the pirates, no weapons, no money no operations. The man who will rise to replace the leaders that we take out of the game should have nothing to work with, no end of a rope to start at.

Which would mean trying to isolate Eyl, intercepting shipments, deliveries, setting up checkpoints.

Leaving armed groups intact will mean they will become autonomous, launching their own raids because that is what they do for a living. Regardless if there is a big dog at the top who provides weapons and information or not. So to fully stop pirate operations you either make a daring move and try to take on Eyl or have an observation team near Eyl warning a naval force of any suspected pirates leaving the port so they can be stopped at sea.

P.S. Sorry but isolating Eyl would mean definately maintaining a presence and not a quick raid.

[paracrusader]

Not sure if anyone agrees with my concept for this operation, but I'm brainstorming a bit. If we figure out what we want to do on the ground, we can then plan for how to equip the on-the-ground portion, how many we need and who's doing what, and then we'll know how much transportation we will need, and how much money we will have left. The infiltration can go very cheap, or not so cheap, but going cheap on the main effort means you might as well not waste your time getting there. Honestly, I've lurked here long enough to not want to touch the equipment portion with a 10-foot pole.

Assuming we are going with the baited ambush, we will need to have two elements. I'll say one 20-man for the diversionary raid on the boats, and say at least a 80-man element for the main effort. I think leaving 20 out for the logistic piece should be adequate, but we can adjust. The 20-man diversion team should be lightly equipped, say nothing bigger than a SAW. They'll also be carrying with them some kind of demo or other equipment to destroy small boats with and generally make alot of ruckus and confusion. They will be the most unsupported, and should be able to mvoe quickly if the situation dictates. The larger ambush element will be there to slug it out for a bit, and so should be equipped accordingly.

[CombatBoots]

Here's my thought on this. Conduct a smaller raid on the nearby coastal community, with the sole intent of destroying boats. It does not need to be spectacular, just some demo or some hand grenades, destroy as many as you can with a force only large enough to defend itself and fight it's way out if need be. Prior to initiating that, have an ambush in place in between the two villages, and attack any force that reacts from the objective area. Anything more ambitious just does not seem feasible with the size of the force. As a secondary objective, target any identifiable caches or fuel supplies.

My problem with this would be that they rely on boats for more than piracy, destroying all the boats is not an option for me.

[Alfacentori]

My problem with this would be that they rely on boats for more than piracy, destroying all the boats is not an option for me.

Your quite right but I would think that a key objective of such an op is to send a message to the population, that supporting Piracy is to costly, that if they support it that their lives will suffer.

Alfa

[paracrusader]

True, they may use the boats for more than piracy, but with that same thought, they use piracy to support their families. Not all the boats would be destroyed, and they can build more boats. There will be consequences on innocent people, which is unfortunate, but the point is to show them that there will be consequences for their actions. It's their choice. You reap what you sow, I say.

Not trying to argue the point, I just don't see a better way without maintaining a presence, which is not feasable, nor is it in the budget.p-)

[CombatBoots]

Your quite right but I would think that a key objective of such an op is to send a message to the population, that supporting Piracy is to costly, that if they support it that their lives will suffer.

Alfa

Have eyes on the ground is what I would get started with, let a small observations team tell us what is going on in real time, let them mark our boats that are linked to piracy, and they can also warn when a target boat is going out.

When planning to send in a ground force into an enemy stronghold, being limited in anything from budget to equipment is giving me the chills.

[ex Strathcona]

interesting project

as a goal i would suggest keeping it simple, use an attack on the built up area by the coast as bait to draw fighters from the main village.
the road that connects the two uses the river valley. the valley has some steep sides and creates a nice defile.
higher positions along the north wall just inland from the coastal settlement would be a good position for a deliberate ambush.

this would keep the operation close to the sea (where i assume the operation would be launched from) also eliminating the need to travel inland to attack the second village.

in theory...
it would give the best results with a minimal risk and eliminate most if not all collateral damage on the second village.

[paracrusader]

Have eyes on the ground is what I would get started with, let a small observations team tell us what is going on in real time, let them mark our boats that are linked to piracy, and they can also warn when a target boat is going out.

This presents the problems of supporting a force on land for a prolonged (or not?) amount of time. I am all about emplacing someone to keep eyes on the target prior to proceeding with any kind of operation, but the logistics of supporting them will be daunting, to say the least. With what they can carry, they couldn't be in place for more than 3-5 days, but during that time, what if they are compromised, attacked, become sick, or any number of emergencies that would require a speedy and secure extraction, possibly compromising your entire operation? In these kind of rural communities, the presence of stranger is likely to be discovered well before 3-5 days has gone by. How long do you propose, and with what size force? And how to reinforce/evacuate of necessary?


When planning to send in a ground force into an enemy stronghold, being limited in anything from budget to equipment is giving me the chills.

Agreed!!! Perhaps we could have some kind of emergency support for medevac/casevac/emergency withdrawl?

[Red-Phos]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=142377
This thread might be of help.
What do we do then if we do not no the Number of Enemy? Im Halo'in in lads to set up a few Op's and do a CTR so do we just imagine an amount?

[CombatBoots]

This presents the problems of supporting a force on land for a prolonged (or not?) amount of time. I am all about emplacing someone to keep eyes on the target prior to proceeding with any kind of operation, but the logistics of supporting them will be daunting, to say the least. With what they can carry, they couldn't be in place for more than 3-5 days, but during that time, what if they are compromised, attacked, become sick, or any number of emergencies that would require a speedy and secure extraction, possibly compromising your entire operation? In these kind of rural communities, the presence of stranger is likely to be discovered well before 3-5 days has gone by. How long do you propose, and with what size force? And how to reinforce/evacuate of necessary?



I would never start an operation without having had more than Google Earth to tell me what's going on. I would assume we chose the observation team carefully, men who know how to do it, and the risks are there that one will get sick, or while advancing to the OP he will sprain his ankle or one of them has explosive diahrea, they'll have to make the best with what they have. More than 3-5 days would be considered maintaining a presence, we'll have to make the most of a day, have half the team sleep half the team observe, report back. You do realise that unless we have percise information whether about the port, if that is our target or the leaders, if that is our target, or the city if that is our target we will have our trained ex-L33t soldiers running like thugs unorganised and unprepared taking opportunity targets, that will create a lot of noise but might result in the killing of nobody important, and quite likely the death of many operators and having survived our attack the leaders will use us as propganda. "They came and we beat them back" and this would result in even stronger support for the pirates, more people will see it safe to invest in doing business with them and we were counterproductive to say the least.

[paracrusader]

I agree with you, I just think any more than 24 hours won't work. Of course, there is plenty of open-source imagery resources. But, obviously, recon for this is going to have to be extensive. Maybe we can use some of the money to fund a few overflights in civilian small aircraft, get some pics from overhead a few days prior. Maybe infil a team posing as reporters. I know that's not technically "legal", but either is this whole operation. It's already been offered to provide intel and assistance from HA agencies, we should use that. A sniper team, or an OP sitting in bad-guy land for that long, on their own, is asking for them to be killed or captured, or used as bait in a rescue operation.

But, like you said, going in blind would be far worse and potentially counterproductive than not going in at all. We can use easily available imagery, improvised aerial recon, one undercover team (the reporters, who could also assist with logistics), the HA agency angle, then finally, no more than 24 hours prior to the operation, observation/surveillance teams.

[paracrusader]

http://www.yachtingbrokers.com/passenger_ship_for_sale.html

I think this would fulfill our needs, at just under US$2MIL!

[Red-Phos]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147917

[CombatBoots]

undercover team (the reporters, who could also assist with logistics)

What logistics mate? The team on OP will go in, set up, and live out of what they carried in, and will carry it all out on their own aswell.
If given the choice I will use most of our time given with recon and gathering information, once all is established (of course I still haven't figured out our target) the operation itself must be very damn quick, once they get organised with their commanders all they'll see is the aftermath of our success.

[CombatBoots]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147917

"Attacks on shipping in the region have been rising in frequency and audacity this fall and winter. In September, Somali pirates hijacked a Ukrainian vessel carrying 30 Russian T-72 tanks" I would like to know more

Definately something I'd like to look into more, currently using Google earth to get a better idea.
BTW Red-Phos did you wand to Helo or HALO teams in?

[paracrusader]

I meant logistics overall, such as marking the beach, providing support once everyone is on the ground, perhaps carrying equipment/food/medical supplies. The very likely possiblity of having to evacuate casualties comes to mind. Additionally, they would potentially be able to identify targets, provide grid locations to more specific targets. Intelligence gathering would be their primary task. They could get an idea of the morale of the local fighters, the level of support they enjoy, the presence of equipment. Hell, they could even seek out interviews with the leadership there. While there, they could certainly participate in the whole operation. While I think having some guys in ghilly suits observing the targets from standoff range is necessary at some point prior to the operation, I think this is a cheaper, safer, and more reliable source of intelligence. IDK, maybe a bit of a stretch. How hard would it be to provide press credentials, transportation, appropriate equipment, and local contacts to facilitate their arrival? I agree 100% on the intelligence gathering pieve, however.

So, does the actual raid take place in 6 weeks, or we have 6 weeks before the operation starts? Do we have to gather intel now? If so, we need to start right away.

[Red-Phos]

"Attacks on shipping in the region have been rising in frequency and audacity this fall and winter. In September, Somali pirates hijacked a Ukrainian vessel carrying 30 Russian T-72 tanks" I would like to know more

Definately something I'd like to look into more, currently using Google earth to get a better idea.
BTW Red-Phos did you wand to Helo or HALO teams in?
Im keeping my ideas quite for the mo. p-) Again does anyone have any idea on number of Enemy?

[CombatBoots]

So, does the actual raid take place in 6 weeks, or we have 6 weeks before the operation starts? Do we have to gather intel now? If so, we need to start right away.

6 Weeks to submit your entire plan, expenses, forces, procedure everything. It is like a deadline, we must have a plan of action in 6 weeks from Ngati's first post, what is to be included is stated in his first post.
(In this Thread p-))

[Red-Phos]

Is it possible to +A week for Christmas?

[CombatBoots]

Im keeping my ideas quite for the mo. p-) Again does anyone have any idea on number of Enemy?

I'm looking through videos that Mjolnir provided the links to and trying to decypher what I see on Google earth. In the videos the streets (If you can call it that) are empty.

P.S. Too bad Ngati isn't here to say "You are going way off track".

[sujithkochi]

I agree with you, I just think any more than 24 hours won't work. Of course, there is plenty of open-source imagery resources. But, obviously, recon for this is going to have to be extensive. Maybe we can use some of the money to fund a few overflights in civilian small aircraft, get some pics from overhead a few days prior. Maybe infil a team posing as reporters. I know that's not technically "legal", but either is this whole operation. It's already been offered to provide intel and assistance from HA agencies, we should use that. A sniper team, or an OP sitting in bad-guy land for that long, on their own, is asking for them to be killed or captured, or used as bait in a rescue operation.

But, like you said, going in blind would be far worse and potentially counterproductive than not going in at all. We can use easily available imagery, improvised aerial recon, one undercover team (the reporters, who could also assist with logistics), the HA agency angle, then finally, no more than 24 hours prior to the operation, observation/surveillance teams.

i believe the pirates dont go out to attack vessels on a daily basis. so ur eyes on the ground wont be able to tell u who are pirates, which are the boats they are using etc in just 24 hrs.

[paracrusader]

Is it possible to +A week for Christmas?

Or maybe -4 weeks, they'd never expect a Christmas eve raid! "Ho ho ho, MF'ers!":-*$

[Red-Phos]

Or maybe -4 weeks, they'd never expect a Christmas eve raid! "Ho ho ho, MF'ers!":-*$
I was on about mate that i have **** to do during Christmas like Romance my Girlfreind and act interested with the family.

[Red-Phos]

I'm looking through videos that Mjolnir provided the links to and trying to decypher what I see on Google earth. In the videos the streets (If you can call it that) are empty.
Doesnt realy help roflBut we cant go sending people over to have a look in ''real life'' can we! It says on Wiki that the Population of Eyl is 19,000 so im sure there are quite a few Pirate Fo's.

[TwoFistedFlava]

Well since we are not rescuing any hostages, what I would suggest is this:

1. Buy a large commercial shipping vessel capable of storing one or more seaplanes and possibly a helicopter. A crew must be hired to man the ship, and it would also be a good idea to outfit the ship with light weapons in case of pirate attack.
2. Purchase one or more seaplanes, preferably ones with serious hauling capacity. Once again, you would need a proper crew in the form of trained pilots, mechanics, etc.
3. Build a half dozen or more GPS-guided bombs, similar to the ones used by the Lebanese air force during their seige of the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp. I imagine that these bombs would be in the 250-500 lb range, but maybe even as small as 100 pound. This may sound difficult to some, but if you hired people with the proper technical expertise it could be done. It would also be good to test the bombs before the mission. If detonating a live bomb were out of the question due to legal issues, then just the guidance system could be tested with a dummy warhead.
4. Modify the seaplanes to carry and deliver the bombs, while training the crew on how to operate the systems and carry out the mission. The ship might also need to be modified to carry the planes and other equipment.
5. Buy a civilian helicopter and acquire a crew. Outfit the helicopter as a gunship, machine guns on both doors and rockets if possible.
6. Hire a special crew to recon and map out any significant targets in the port and nearby town. The recon team would stay around Eyl both before and during the attack in order to provide up to date intelligence on pirate movements. They might also be used to sabotage or take out AA positions that could pose a threat during the assault.

The Attack: Having reconnoitered the targets, conduct a combined-arms assault on the port facilities, using both the seaplanes and the helicopter gunship in a simultaneous attack. The major role of the gunship will be to take attention away from the seaplanes, which have the most important mission. The gunship will start its attack just a couple of minutes before the planes, and while it is keeping the pirates attention with machine gun and rocket fire, the seaplanes will swoop in and bomb the port with multiple guided bombs. Depending on the amount of major targets which were previously identified in the port, the planes may have to make multiple bombing runs. The gunship could then mop up anything else that the planes may have missed. The helicopter isn't essential for the mission, but would help enhance its chances of success. Both the helicopters and seaplanes would deploy from the large ship that was purchased, and return to it after delivering the attack.

Summary: This plan has a high cost attached to it, and if it was unsuccessful the element of surprise will be lost and the pirates will be much harder to take out in the future. Another potential problem with the plan is that if the timing was not perfect, the helicopter might make the pirates scatter before they can be effectively targeted by the planes, or it might arrive too late and not draw enough attention away from the vulnerable seaplanes. It might be better to just have the helicopter and planes arrive at the same. Both the helicopter and planes would stand a good risk of getting shot down if the pirates have effective AA positions, so good intelligence on their capabilities is of the utmost importance. I know there are a lot of other holes in my plan, since I've only had about an hour to flesh it out in my head, but I think that if it worked the attack would be devastating, and yet still be precise enough to satisfy Ngati's restrictions on collateral damage. While the plan's cost is high, the planes, helicopter, and boat could be re-sold afterward. If the plan was successful, future missions could be prepared for a much lower cost.

[Red-Phos]

Well since we are not rescuing any hostages, what I would suggest is this:

1. Buy a large commercial shipping vessel capable of storing one or more seaplanes. A crew must be hired to man the ship, and it would also be a good idea to outfit the ship with light weapons in case of pirate attack.
2. Purchase one or more seaplanes, preferably ones with serious hauling capacity. Once again, you would need a proper crew in the form of trained pilots, mechanics, etc.
3. Build a half dozen or more GPS-guided bombs, similar to the ones used by the Lebanese air force during their seige of the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp. I imagine that these bombs would be in the 250-500 lb range, but maybe even as small as 100 pound. This may sound difficult to some, but if you hired people with the proper technical expertise it could be done. It would also be good to test the bombs before the mission. If detonating a live bomb were out of the question due to legal issues, then just the guidance system could be tested with a dummy warhead.
4. Modify the seaplanes to carry and deliver the bombs, while training the crew on how to operate the systems and carry out the mission. The ship might also need to be modified to carry the planes and other equipment.
5. Buy a civilian helicopter and acquire a crew. Outfit the helicopter as a gunship, machine guns on both doors and rockets if possible.
6. Hire a special crew to recon and map out any significant targets in the port and nearby town. The recon team would stay around Eyl both before and during the attack in order to provide up to date intelligence on pirate movements. They might also be used to sabotage or take out AA positions that could pose a threat during the assault.

The Attack: Having reconnoitered the targets, conduct a combined-arms assault on the port facilities, using both the seaplanes and the helicopter gunship in a simultaneous attack. The major role of the gunship will be to take attention away from the seaplanes, which have the most important mission. The gunship will start its attack just a couple of minutes before the planes, and while it is keeping the pirates attention with machine gun and rocket fire, the seaplanes will swoop in and bomb the port with multiple guided bombs. Depending on the amount of major targets which were previously identified in the port, the planes may have to make multiple bombing runs. The gunship could then mop up anything else that the planes may have missed. The helicopter isn't essential for the mission, but would help enhance its chances of success. Both the helicopters and seaplanes would deploy from the large ship that was purchased, and return to it after delivering the attack.

Summary: This plan has a high cost attached to it, and if it was unsuccessful the element of surprise will be lost and the pirates will be much harder to take out in the future. Another potential problem with the plan is that if the timing was not perfect, the helicopter might make the pirates scatter before they can be effectively targeted by the planes, or it might arrive too late and not draw enough attention away from the vulnerable seaplanes. It might be better to just have the helicopter and planes arrive at the same. Both the helicopter and planes would stand a good risk of getting shot down if the pirates have effective AA positions, so good intelligence on their capabilities is of the utmost importance. I know there are a lot of other holes in my plan, since I've only had about an hour to flesh it out in my head, but I think that if it worked the attack would be devastating, and yet still be precise enough to satisfy Ngati's restrictions on collateral damage. While the plan's cost is high, the planes, helicopter, and boat could be re-sold afterward. If the plan was successful, future missions could be prepared for a much lower cost.
Bit Far-Feched.I have a excellent plan with a few other members its tempting to say but i cant have you ****ers nicking my ideas p-)

[TwoFistedFlava]

Bit Far-Feched.

Well so is any amphibious assault really. This is a tough and complicated mission that requires speed and the element of surprise, I think an airborne assault is the way to go.

And while this plan may seem far-fetched to some, a very similar idea to this was used by Tamil Tigers against the Sri Lankan armed forces with great success.

[Red-Phos]

Well so is any amphibious assault really. This is a tough and complicated mission that requires speed and the element of surprise, I think an airborne assault is the way to go.
The Entire coast is Pirate Ridden you will not realy have the element of Surprise when they spot you and bring all there mates in to play.But you have your modified ''sea planes'' for that p-)

[TwoFistedFlava]

The Entire coast is Pirate Ridden you will not realy have the element of Surprise when they spot you and bring all there mates in to play.But you have your modified ''sea planes'' for that p-)

Yeah I'm banking on the helicopter and planes having good enough range that the boat can be set up well outside the pirates usual turf.

[Hawkeye4077]

As Alfa touched on on page 6, this town is more or less 2 towns under 1 name, separated by roughly 2.5 miles. That means we either hit 1, secure it, then move to the next, or we divide up and hit them both simultaneously.

If we hit one then move on, I suggest we infiltrate via the sea and take the coastal community first. There's a compound about half a mile outside the main town that we can use as a staging area for the assault on the town itself. Depending on what we determine to be the security situation on the river leading to the main city, the option of going direct to the main city then backing out to the coast for exfil will work also. Either way the problem is that this op could take upwards of a day or 2 to complete.

If we hit both at the same time I'd think we'd need to divide into at least 60/40, with the 60% hitting the main town via the river and that 40% hitting the coastal community via the sea. Once the coastal town is secured, a small team can move up the road from the coastal town and commondeer the compound outside the main city. These people can act as a small back up team in case the team hitting the main city needs assistance. Commondeering the compound will also give the force hitting the city a place to rest before making the trek to the coast for exfil. I figure 18-24 hours max for this plan

Obviously these guys are armed, has or is anyone come up with estimated casualty figures?

[CombatBoots]

. I figure 18-24 hours max for this plan

Obviously these guys are armed, has or is anyone come up with estimated casualty figures?

18-24 hours, means we wouldn't just have to fight off pirates from Eyl, but also reinforcements that arrive from nearby villages and towns. What is your goal? To kill as many pirates as you can? Secure the area? Disarm the population? Remember, it is very easy to get a weapon in Somalia so you can count on that most men in that region will be armed. And since giving up piracy would really bring them back to the edge of misery they will fight hard. And 120 is all men including crews for helicopters, ships, boats, cooks, doctors or anybody who will not go inland on the assault.
How many men does this leave us with to clear ~465 houses + the adjacent area. Splitting the force into 2 assault teams that will be divided for each part of the area would help in keeping the enemy disorganised and confused but also means we have very small teams in both regions.

This doesn't look good for us.

[Auzaider]

I'm enjoying this topic a lot, as I also enjoyed the previous one.

Has anyone considered getting to someone inside the pirate organization? A million, two or five spent on him might help you a lot more than any weapons system... also, since yours is not an official operation, why spending money on a ship when you can kidnap one and use it?
Since all the coast will be filled with pirate boats patrolling... using your man (and his men) on the inside to stage a kidnapping thus infiltrating your men on the kidnapped ship would be really great.

Have I been watching to many movies? :D

Feel free to suspend me if this post is too stupid :)

[Red-Phos]

Have I been watching to many movies? :D

roflYes,they would more than likely nick your money and then hold you hostage for ransom anyway.

[paracrusader]

Realistically, we won't have more than 100 personnel, total, on the ground to act on this target. As Boots said, there's a total of 465 buildings total to potentially clear, many of most of which may have armed inhabitants inside, and you will not achieve enough surprise to deal with more than a few before you'll have shaken up a hornets nest. Not going to happen. And, even if it was possible, you can't just go and execute people in their sleep. Additionally, you are going to ahve to dedicate a sizeable force to isolating this target area, due to it's size and the likelihood of counterattack/reinforcement from outside. If you spent too much time, you would quickly find yourself surrounded and cut off.

Waterborne infiltration, I think is the way to go.

Time on the objective, from infiltrating Recon and Surveillance teams to exfiltration, should be as short as possible. You are not going to freely roam around killing bad guys in broad daylight here. I suggest no more than 12 hours total, preferably less, and ideally entirely during hours of darkness. It's safe to assume that, however they are armed here, they will have extremely limited access to NODs, if at all. I also think, for planning purposes, that you can assume that 1/4 of the population is armed in this area and willing to fight. Then you have the surrounding communities that we can assume will react to any attack.

The key here is getting in, inflicting as much damage as possible, and getting out. We are not going to shut down piracy in a single, small raid. We are not going to kill enough of them or destroy enough material to effect them in any lasting way. But we can creat a tremendous psychological impact, and perhaps deter future piracy. And, if nothing else, we influence them to have to dedicate potential pirates to guard duty.

[Adam Wilhelm]

Buy a large commercial sea vessel and hire a crew and outfit it with guns, communications and other delights.

Buy several RIBS.

Hire 120+ men and outfit them with small arms and commo.

Hire at least one surgeon and several medics which is stationed on the vessel.

Infil small teams (2-4x4 men) pretending to be journalists, help worker or even tourists. These small team shall act as eyes on the ground, ready to provide direct actions on any locations which seems appropriate.

Execute Op Dog´s Bollock at night and destroy so many boats and ships you can and kill every opposition which fire at you.

Exfil with the RIBs to our ship at sea.

A variant of the S:t Nazaire raid could be used but considering collateral damage i think this is not a feature.


Another variant is if there is an airfield which we can seize and put a large transport aeroplane on. Then with the help of some Toyota Hilux technicals transport our force to the town, destroy the boats and exfil to our ship att sea.

It worked or the israelis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWLJHC7hkao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaL_P3en26Y

[Red-Phos]

Im not going to bother with Doctors i think if our own men go down it works out cheaper right? No pay for them and not having to pay for Doctors etc.

[CombatBoots]

Execute Op Dog´s Bollock at night and destroy so many boats and ships you can and kill every opposition which fire at you.


Is your intent to destroy ships and boats?

[Red-Phos]

Is your intent to destroy ships and boats?
Its to wipe out the Pirate infastructre,is there info on Leaders etc or do they work out of the clans?

[Auzaider]

roflYes,they would more than likely nick your money and then hold you hostage for ransom anyway.


I knew it! :D

But, it has to be the right person... I mean, all organizations have internal rivalries, perhaps if your find the right person that might get some benefit from your attack... then, and only then, he might not kidnap you and take all the money :)

[CombatBoots]

The Somali pirates also rely on a local network of corrupt officials and villagers eager for money in a region with no real economy. Somali pirates generally dock hijacked vessels near the coast in the northern
Somali region of Puntland as they negotiate ransoms. Rogue security and government officials there allow the pirates to use ports and move freely around towns while they restock ships, said Abdullahi Said
Aw-Yusuf, a district commissioner in Eyl.

"This is the main reason why pirates are stationed in Puntland," Aw-Yusuf said.

Piracy has turned many tiny fishing villages off Somalia's coast into boomtowns, where pirates build sprawling homes, cruise in luxury cars and marry multiple wives. Often dressed in military fatigues, the
pirates are typically armed with automatic weapons, anti-tank rocket launchers and grenades. The weaponry is readily available throughout Somalia, where 20 years of anarchy means nearly everyone owns a gun and a bustling arms market operates in the capital.

From; http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-12-10-somali-piracy-backed-by-international-network


P.S. Did you all watch Mjolnirs videos links? For instance;
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-150775
This shows us the beach, and the river, tells me that the river is not all that some would have hoped for from Google Earth.
you can see him walking through the southeast village by the sea.
The white lines on Google Maps on the beach are the boats. (Our targets?!)

I'll keep adding to this post as I'm reading other articles so here another update of what I found gives a bit of insight into size of enemy;




"The number of people who make the first attack is small, normally from seven to 10," he said. "They go out in powerful speedboats armed with heavy weapons. But once they seize the ship, about 50 pirates stay on board the vessel. And about 50 more wait on shore in case anything goes wrong."



And the people involved don't hide having made money;

People put on ties and smart clothes. They arrive in land cruisers with their laptops, one saying he is the pirates' accountant, another that he is their chief negotiator.

Source; http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7623329.stm

For now I'm at a dead end, we could be in need of some good swimmers with explosives, gone are the boats. We could need good men to gather intelligence, a few teams on the execution, poof gone are our opportunist Eyly 'businessmen'. Don't forget the issue of "Motherships" that hasn't been addressed.

[paracrusader]

Good info, CombatBoots. Hmmm...I'm rethinking my concept, now that I hear about accountants and negotiators in land rovers. So many devious possiblities... Powerful speedboats, huh? Destroying those will certainly hit them in the pockets, and I would assume they'd have fuel supplies located at the port area. Why wouldn't they?

If they routinely operate in groups like that, I wonder how tight-knit these 7-10 man boarding teams, or whatever you want to call them, are. Maybe not trained, not in our way of thinking, but certainly experienced and used to working together, which counts for ALOT. And that they operate together in groups as large of 50 says alot as well, both good and bad. It'd be better to ambush a large, semi-cohesive group than have to deal with many smaller groups. If you had the time to emplace properly, a 50-man force moving on foot and on the back of pickup trucks entering your kill zone...

I stand by the idea that going toe-to-toe for any length of time will be bad for us, though.

Anyone know how they communicate? Maybe our undercover journalist/humanitarian aid/tourists could sabotage some cel towers just prior to the main event? Might buy a few minutes and cause some confusion, and actually hinder their ability to operate for awhile, with minimal money spent, assets used, and risk involved.

[CombatBoots]

Anyone know how they communicate? Maybe our undercover journalist/humanitarian aid/tourists could sabotage some cel towers?

It has been stated that it was chosen to use wireless communication in the region rather than phone lines because the lines would get stolen for re-selling the copper. So on that day finding out a way to disrupt this would be magic!

[Dave76]

1. Objective

The big question is, what exactly is our objective? Destroying pirate-related infrastructure? Anything resembling a boat, port facilities, housing, stores, equipment, weapons etc.? Eliminating as many pirates as possible? How do we identify them? Is every male encountered a possible pirate? Or has he to be armed? Are we taking prisoners?
Too many unknowns which brings us directly to point 2:

2. Intel

Currently we know exactly nothing concerning:
- the organisation of the enemy (pirates)
- the strength of the enemy
- armament of the enemy
- whereabouts
- daily routines (are there patrols, guards, are they drugged up in the night etc.?)
- realtionship of the pirates and the rest of the citizens (perhaps there is no differentiation)
- do we have to hit the port-dwelling and the town?

Without being able to answer these basic questions, we can't put a decent plan together. We won't even be able to answer the objective one. Without having at least a basic idea of how the pirates operate and how their organisation works, we won't be able to formulate an objective.

So how do we obtain that crucial intel?

2.1. Eyes on the ground

There are basically two different approaches as how to obtain information:

2.1.1. undercover team
It's pretty self-explanatory. The problem is, how do you get guys into the city, roaming around, without raising the least bit of suspicion? Obvisouly it would be preferable if we could rely on indigs. But the problem would be how to recruit possible spies that are 1. reliable 2. knowleadgable on the subject (military) 3. don't raise suspicion under the locals if they're wary even about a new Somali face showing up in town.
The other option would be putting in a team under the disguise of A: reporters or B: posing as aid/relief workers. The question is whether they actually gain access to the towns/facilities and how long they would be able to operate without their cover being blown.

2.1.2. reconnaissance from afar
That would mean putting in a recon team (infil by zodiac etc.) which tries to reconnoiter the targets from a distance, using eyeball mk.1, binos, NVG and so forth. Problem is of course that the team has to stay undetected during infil and the later, actual CTR. Terrain and movement of locals in the areas surrounding the towns are crucial factors in this equation.

Both methods bear some advantages and disadvantages. But both could, after their intel gathering mission is over, identify possible landing-sites for an amphibious landing of the main force and guide them in.


That's all so far. Let me hear what you think.

[Red-Phos]

2. Intel

Currently we know exactly nothing concerning:
- the organisation of the enemy (pirates)
- the strength of the enemy
- armament of the enemy
- whereabouts
- daily routines (are there patrols, guards, are they drugged up in the night etc.?)
- realtionship of the pirates and the rest of the citizens (perhaps there is no differentiation)
- do we have to hit the port-dwelling and the town?

Without being able to answer these basic questions, we can't put a decent plan together. We won't even be able to answer the objective one. Without having at least a basic idea of how the pirates operate and how their organisation works, we won't be able to formulate an objective.


Ive been saying that to mate!
And asking the same-ish questions.

Im sure there weapons are mostly Warsaw Pact/Russian.

But i doubt the majority of there Ammunition even works.

[CombatBoots]

Ok here is the correct immage, now I am not sure these are exactly 'our men' but I have circled 2 things I suspect of being cell phones, the one on the right even in a silicone cover?
Maybe they are taking these devices off the crews they captured.


http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1228/57257703rq1.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/57257703rq1.png/1/w695.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img148/57257703rq1.png/1/)



As far as I have noticed the ship carrying the tanks didn't unload so we won't have to worry about having tanks as a threat. Which even when unarmed would be useful as rolling roadblocks, trying to run our men over or 100 other ways to use a tank even as a motorised mule.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Finally, we're getting down to the basics instead of yarping on about HALO insertions and St Nazaire/Entebbe style raids. :)

[CombatBoots]

But i doubt the majority of there Ammunition even works.

Counting on the impotence of the enemy is not something I would include in planning.

[CombatBoots]

Finally, we're getting down to the basics instead of yarping on about HALO insertions and St Nazaire/Entebbe style raids. :)

I haven't done this type of simulation before, do I assume the numbers and locations of the enemy or must I buy a ticket and a decent camera?

[paracrusader]

The big question is, what exactly is our objective?
I would say, and correct me if I'm wrong or if anyone disgrees, that the mission is a punitive raid that will be largely symbolic.

Currently we know exactly nothing concerning:
- the organisation of the enemy (pirates)
- the strength of the enemy
- armament of the enemy
- whereabouts
- daily routines (are there patrols, guards, are they drugged up in the night etc.?)
- realtionship of the pirates and the rest of the citizens (perhaps there is no differentiation)
- do we have to hit the port-dwelling and the town?

We know a little, but I think that the situation is going to be somewhat fluid, and we'll have to make some assumptions. Based on the stated population and statements about groups of 50 or so pirates ashore and on boats, we can assume that the enemy force in this area is in the neighborhood of 3-400 potential fighters, at a very high estimate. Assume the presence of heavy weapons, to include 12.7mm machineguns, recoilless rifles, PKMs, RPGs and mixed rifles. I saw a video recently of the pirates firing both 12.7mm and RRs. I would also assume that the entire infrastructure of the town by now is inherently tied into the pirate industry. And, finally, I think we've established that the port dwelling is part of the town. The assigned task is to conduct a raid on the town.

Obviously, making assumptions is not good business, and I think we all agree that we need intel, and that there are few viable options to get it. Is it possible for us to have someone play the opposition, take a chunk out of our budget based on our course of action, and feed us further info? We have the mission, and the geographic situation, and we'll formulate a friendly situation, but we need a better idea of the enemy situation before we can formulate how we will execute, support, and command this mission. For the sake of this mission/war game, we obviously can't conduct actual intelligence-gathering aside from open-source, so it must be simulated.

Ngati: Can we PM you with proposals for intelligence-gathering, and you provide us with intel? Not sure how we will work this. I mean, I'll gladly plan it without actual intel, but if we were to really do this...

And to everyone else, are you going alone on this? If we were to pool our resources, maybe a few of us get together and break down responsiblity or command of certain portions of this operation...

BTW, this thread is the reason I finally started posting after lurking for close to half a decade on this site!

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I haven't done this type of simulation before, do I assume the numbers and locations of the enemy or must I buy a ticket and a decent camera?

You will never know everything, regardless of which intelligence agency supports you, if indeed one or more did.

On the other hand you'll be amazed at what can be gleaned with a little effort through open sources...

Hint#2: Work out a list of Intelligence Requirements (questions that need to be answered) and then figure out where/how those IR's can be answered.

[BlackFlag]

Gathering Intel is crucial. However, having "undercover" personnel is out of the question. Pose as undercover journalists? No way. They'd be kidnapped for ransom.

Possibly getting one or more locals to provide intel would be more realistic.

[CombatBoots]

Alright, one source of intel would be freed hostages ofcourse, and there are quite a few of them, the pirates have set up entire facilities for 'catering' to the needs of the hostages. Might also shine some insight on who was taking care of them, big dogs will be noticed like all day you see men in fatigues suddenly some well fed guy comes in a suit and land cruiser. :)

Dave summarised quite well the other means of intel gathering. Now using locals won't work because these guys operate on clan and family level so that would be one tough bond to crack, besides they're making quite some money already.

P.S. the videos I have seen of Eyl threw me off balance, nothing to work with, except seeing the terrain and the general looks of the city.

[paracrusader]

Gathering Intel is crucial. However, having "undercover" personnel is out of the question. Pose as undercover journalists? No way. They'd be kidnapped for ransom.

Possibly getting one or more locals to provide intel would be more realistic.

Of all the ideas, I think this is feasible. Reporters have travelled there and interviewed the pirates in the past. I have to disagree with you on this, I think having your own people on site in the days prior would be not only safe, but far more reliable than hiring a local, which would still involve someone physically being there to pay them, explain what you want for the money they are being given, and at least exchange handy numbers. and, were they compromised, you may not know until your mission suddenly goes horribly wrong. Under the best of circumstances, you don't trust a source in that way until you've recieved good intel and have worked with them reliably for some time, and even then you take them with you when you conduct your mission.

[CombatBoots]

Somalia's increasingly brazen pirates are building sprawling stone houses, cruising in luxury cars, marrying beautiful women -- even hiring caterers to prepare Western-style food for their hostages.


That would be quite a safe way to get our man in.
And the source, which I'll keep reading:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_on_re_af/af_pirate_boomtown

From same article a little confirmation of available comms;



"The oldest man on the ship always takes the responsibility of collecting the money, because we see it as very risky, and he gets some extra payment for his service later," Aden Yusuf, a pirate in Eyl, told AP over VHF radio

[playtym]

Ok here is the correct immage, now I am not sure these are exactly 'our men' but I have circled 2 things I suspect of being cell phones, the one on the right even in a silicone cover?
Maybe they are taking these devices off the crews they captured.

LOL! You blokes clearly have no idea how huge cellular/mobile phones are in Africa, nor how much of their income an average African is willing to spend on them.
Just doing a Google search for cellular phone coverage in Somalia (http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&q=cellular+phone+coverage+somalia&btnG=Google+Search&meta=) should enlighten you a little.

Also, watch Black Hawk Down - cell phone comms feature prominently in the opening sequence of the helicopter assault.

[CombatBoots]

:cantbeli:I clearly had no idea mate.

P.S. Gee, I sure hope no Somali pirate is sitting in an internet cafe reading MP.net

[paracrusader]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_on_re_af/af_pirate_boomtown

From same article a little confirmation of available comms;

I read this awhile back- good info. Certainly some potential to exploit alot of this to our advantage. Troubling thing is that these guys really created these areas that they live in, and are local heroes. We're not going to find any supportive locals when we go in and start killing people. Like I said, in and out, or we'll find ourselves in alot of trouble.

On the other hand, destroying all the fancy things they've bought with their money (generators, cars, ect) would give me absolutely no guilt, knowing the amount of wealth they've aquired from this lifestyle. And send a powerful message, at that.

I say stay the hell out of the city, draw them into an ambush. Nothing good will come from entering that city with the kind of force we can create. Use long-range precision fires to shoot out generators, car engines, or anything of value that isn't a woman, old man, or child.

[CombatBoots]

With the right knowhow this communication can be used to gather intel, especially if they're not being careful in what they are passing on.

Now this is unbelievable!



Pirates used only bullets to communicate, be it with us or with their mates. We got to understand their signals in a couple of days


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Guns_did_the_talking_for_Somali_pirates/articleshow/3757641.cms




In some areas, residents say the pirates are the only ones allowed to defy night time curfews imposed by the Islamists


http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4770289a12.html

I'll try to get more info on this curfew, unless you can beat me to it, I don't know about the source. but A curfew would help us in our raid, because we can with rather high certainty say that at night all men outdoors are targets to be taken. (Edit: I have nothing to confirm this applies to Eyl so not to be taken into account unless you have sources clearly stating it.)


Pirates are now at the top of the town's social class, the only ones with money for Western-made cigarettes and fancy cellphones. Known by nicknames such as "Superman" or "Flying Squad," they spend their free time drunk or high on khat.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-pirates31-2008oct31,0,4399211,full.story

[wigon]

Background

Pirates, what else?

A cabal of 'business' interests have employed you to plan and prepare a raid to neutralise the effect that pirates activity is having on their bottom line. They'll front the cash. You are responsible for everything else.

Collateral damage and casualties are to be minimised as a matter of course.

Post raid BDA is to be provided.

Intent

Organize a raid on the Town of Eyl on the Somali coast and it's surrounding area in order to destroy pirate infrastructure and neutralise pirate operations.



Ok, right here there is a problem...a VERY BIG problem. Hostages. The pirates have dozens of hostages at any given time. Any such attacks would likely result in the execution of at least some hostages. If these business owners really don't care about that, then they should be prepared for the political fall-out which may include EU forces acting under the U.N. banner actively arresting anyone involved in such operations.

The intent should be much simpler. Reverse hostage taking. Hostage taking is an ancient practice especially in Islamic nations. Hostages have always been bargaining chips. Intelligence gathered needs to be focused on the movements of local tribal elders (likely in charge of pirate operations) and their families in other parts of Somalia. The targets should be both those leaders as well as their family. It is to be expected that international outrage will occur. However to effectively manage this captives can be shown (through video releases of video and photography) as having comfortable living arrangements with their religious needs seen to. The captives can be kept offshore on a ship with a clear message to the pirates that any attempt at rescuing them will end in negative reprecussions to their leaders and family members held captive. The operation should be billed as a culturally appropriate method of dealing with pirates.




Your Resources, Limitations, and House Rules

$25,000,000 for all expenses.

No more than 120 personnel, this includes logistics, C3I and shooters.

All weapons, transport and personnel must be realistically obtainable. No Ohio class SSBN's, F-22's, T-95's, Troops/Squadrons/Teams of CAG/DEVGRU or any other SMU, plasma rifles in the 40w range, etc.

Your sponsors have convinced the CIA, MI6, etc. to look the other way. You will receive neither interference nor support from external forces.


120 personnel is very lean. The majority would likely be support personel. If you're lucky maybe about 50 would be combat operators with as many as possible having special operations backgrounds. All operators should preferably be from the same country and same service branch (at least as much as possible) in order to avoid mis-communications. Position in operational command and planning (and pay rate) would be determined by their former rank in service, experience, and expertise. Position of operator in the actual operation would be determined by experience and adjusted during the course of training as needed.
Combat medical specialists and extensive emergency equipment would be essential for the team along with agreements made in Ethiopia regarding hospitals that casualties could be flown to and arrangements for security of the wounded by local law enforcement. Likewise in the event of death and/or injury contracts with personel should include life insurance/injury compensation.


Training facilities would likely be within Ethiopia or Djbuti depending on who would allow such training. Food & housing costs, transportation fees, and port fees would have to be factored in with rotating on-boad security of the ship while in port.
Training of personel should be as extensive and realistic as possible covering a wide range of possible scenarios especialy worst case scenarios. A large chunk of the budget should be allocated to training.

I don't have time to look up all of the costs of leasing appropriate civilian ships (with a helicopter flight deck big enough for an Mi-8/17) and helicopters. However most likely both the ship and helicopters could be leased in the Ukraine where likewise it probably would not be hard to find crew for all of them. The ship should ideally be able to carry (or be converted to carry) two Mi-8/17 transport helicopters along with refueling and maintanence equipment as these are going to be your best bang for your buck helicopters. One helicopter will be for the primary "snatch and grab" team while the other helicopter will be used as a backup. If possible an agreement might be made with Ethiopia to provide any emergency assistance if more then two helicopters are needed.


For intelligence it would likely be fairly inexpensive to recruit Ethiopians to help track down and locate family members of pirate leaders in major cities. Cities however under control of warlords not friendly to the West would provide a serious obstacle as they tend to set up checkpoints all over the place. If Ethiopian intelligence agencies could be convinced to assist with personnel trained to gather intelligence within Somalia (with fake identification cards/papers, etc...) that would make things vastly easier.
The reason for not using Somali informants is simply being that it is very difficult to gauge loyalties. Ethiopians in contrast are mostly Christian and pro-Western. No conflicting loyalties. During the invasion of Somalia by the U.N./U.S., US Special Operations constantly recieved bad information from Somali sources. A small high risk operation should not take any chances as only a few opportunities would arrise before local pirates began to be tipped off that a commando unit was hunting for leaders and family members.



The actual snatch and grab operation could either be relatively easy if the target is intercepted while travelling between cities. It however could get complicated if the target's are in a city. However a larger number of prisoners could be taken if an entire household is apprehended. Two trucks would be needed to be purchased by the Ethiopian operatives (maybe two or three to support each other) to both transfer the assault team and the prisoners. A secondary truck would be used for a backup team waiting outside of the city with one of the Ethiopians. The other two would go with the primary team in case they ran into a checkpoint. In addition a trial recon run would be done before the actual operation by the Ethiopians with a video camera that would be reviewed just prior to the operation.

I'm not an expert on communications, but the operators hired would determine the best possible communications gear for the operations. Satellite phones would however likely be the primary form of communications with tactical radio's headsets for short-range communicatons. A larger satellite communication/internet system (similar to what many journalists use) could be used at the staging location where the 2nd backup truck would remain. They would remain in contact with the operational HQ which would either be aboard the ship mentioned or possibly from a land base in Djbuti or Ethiopia. The helicopters would be primarily used to insert the operators and their backup team to the staging area where they would meet up with the Ethiopian guys with the trucks (who will be equipped with satellite phones and GPS units with training on how to use them).
The secondary task of the helicopters would be to provide quick interception of a moving target with a small team of operators to make the arrest after warning shots are fired to halt the vehicle (or its engine/tires are shot out). They also could be used as gunships to provide emergency fire support (with door guns or with rocket pods if those could be obtained). They would also serve as medivac in the event of casualties.

Details in the actual raid planning would be left to the highest ranking operators and would be dependent on the particular target intelligence and location. It would also be open to adaptation in the face of any unforseen events. This includes the exact number of personel on each team and their weapon/equipment layout. Likewise issues as passwords and encrypted statements used by the Ethiopian operators would be worked out during training.
I'm not an expert the actual operational aspect so I won't comment on this part anymore then I already have. If you are an expert I freely will acknowledge any flaws or inaccuracies in what I've outlined. Just please do it in a constructive manner.


Problems:
1. Getting appropriate weaponry and ammunition to the primary ship (or primary HQ/Training area). Someone with expertise on aquiring and transporting internationally such weapons would need to be consulted such as perhaps Blackwater or a similar PMC. In a pinch, locally purchased weapons could be aquired but they likely would not be in very good condition especially if they were more delicate weapons like an SVD sniper rifle. Also it would likely be impossible to find things like flash-bang and tear gas grenades.

2. Getting assistance from Djbuti or Ethiopia (preferably) would be almost mandatory for logistical support and for training areas.

3. Prisoners would need to be held on a ship offshore to avoid international issues and retaliation by Islamists against that government.

4. Consultant on hostage negotations (who has experience negotiating with the Somali pirates) would need to be consulted before anything to test the feasability of th idea.

5. A decision would have to be made as to what to do in the event that international or pirate forces attempt to board the ship holding the prisoners. In addition a decision would have to made as to what should happen if the pirates start executing hostages and whether to reply in kind. They would have MUCH more to lose. In addition to execution of the prisoners (in the event they kill the hostages), the Mi-8/17 helicopters, if equipped with rocket launchers, could be used to launch a rocket attack on their ships and fueling areas along with any other targets of opportunity.

6. Such an operation would likely take 3-5 months. However simply attacking pirate facilities and ships in a strong way would likely only bring about the executions of hostages.

7. The staging area would need a backup staging ground if the first one was discovered... that or the operation would have to be aborted and delayed for a while.

8. Keeping locals from getting antsy from hearing a military helicopter flying around would be difficult.




All information/intelligence used is to be open source.


That's almost impossible for such an operation unless somehow a key leader's home can be determined from open source information.



You have six weeks to prepare your submissions.

Interested parties are to submit their respective Operational Orders (OPORD), to include;

1. Detailed orders, (No set format but must include Ground, Situation, Mission, Execution[by phase], Admin and logistics, co-ordinating instructions - timings)
2. Itemised expenditure list,
3. Table or Organisation and Equipment (TOE),
4. Logistics plan,

Include a mission analysis study/appreciation process if possible (extra points awarded).

Requests for additional funding (to include justification) are to be submitted NLT 1 Jan 09.

Complete OPORD's to be submitted NLT 1 Feb 2009.



I don't have the time to complete all those details as the expenditures would require a tremendous amount of research that I would not even bother with unless an organization was indeed interested.
However another idea is that if this force could be put together, it may be used to develop a longer term security force with aviation assets for convoy escort duties. It would require setting up a rotating pool of personel, but likely could be done especially if done in a partnership with well-established PMC's like DynCorp, Blackwater and the various surviving offshoots of Executive Outcomes.


Wigon

[Pete031]

Gathering Intel is crucial. However, having "undercover" personnel is out of the question. Pose as undercover journalists? No way. They'd be kidnapped for ransom.

Possibly getting one or more locals to provide intel would be more realistic.

Do it the less Gucci way and send out dismounted patrols. Lots of high features around.

[LoboCanada]

This is a combination of previous posts. Reliability wouldn't be an issue if you had a recon team there a few days before to collect intel and what not, the night before the raid have them lay mines on the road connecting the port to the main town. Having 2 teams, 1)stay at the port, destroy the pirate boats (that will definately stop them for a while) 2)ambush any reinforcements getting to the port from the high ground west of the river (where the recon team will be), from the vids it looks to be pretty high up there and has a few places to hide.

I don't see what good we could do from raiding the main town. I think the objective would be to take out the boats and lay mines on the only connecting road. The main town has way too many people there and the risk of something going really wrong is alot higher. And what would be the targets in the main town. I'm sure if you were to take out any high ranking official you could take them out while they are en route to the port. I think it gets too complicated when attacking the main town, I think everything should be concentrated on making the port and its boats 'out of order'.

Using that large vessel seems like a good idea though, sounds like a good base of operations. Can we at least agree on a sea exfil to the large boat?

Edit: What about aquiring some of those ex-norweigan combat boats. I'll have to dig around for that thread, but they looked like they were in good condition and hadn't been out of service for long. Does anyone have that thread link?

[CombatBoots]

I totally disregarded anything happening to the hostages and or ships taken by the pirates. Reminds me of that "Not my job" picture. :)



Organize a raid on the Town of Eyl on the Somali coast and it's surrounding area in order to destroy pirate infrastructure and neutralise pirate operations.



I was keeping to that like a priest to the bible.

[Pete031]

So does that mean you are going to target all fighting age males in the area? Or just those with a patch and a parrot on their shoulder?

[paracrusader]

This is a combination of previous posts. Reliability wouldn't be an issue if you had a recon team there a few days before to collect intel and what not, the night before the raid have them lay mines on the road connecting the port to the main town. Having 2 teams, 1)stay at the port, destroy the pirate boats (that will definately stop them for a while) 2)ambush any reinforcements getting to the port from the high ground west of the river (where the recon team will be), from the vids it looks to be pretty high up there and has a few places to hide.

I don't see what good we could do from raiding the main town. I think the objective would be to take out the boats and lay mines on the only connecting road. The main town has way too many people there and the risk of something going really wrong is alot higher. And what would be the targets in the main town. I'm sure if you were to take out any high ranking official you could take them out while they are en route to the port. I think it gets too complicated when attacking the main town, I think everything should be concentrated on making the port and its boats 'out of order'.

Using that large vessel seems like a good idea though, sounds like a good base of operations. Can we at least agree on a sea exfil to the large boat?

I definitely agree on going by sea. Transporting your entire element together, or at least being able to, for > $2MIL as opposed to paying that much for a helicopter of questionable value that is much more vulnerable sounds good to me! Gives you a place to plan, stage, assemble and recover from. And, as an added bonus, imagine the pirates who decide to give your ship a try, with over 100 armed guys on board! It would almost be worth it to look for trouble while on your way out!p-)

I agree, leave the main town alone. I also agree, the boats will be the easiest targets to find and destroy, and will cause the most significant damage to their operations. Targets of opportunity, of course, and kill anyone who gets in your way, more or less, but weapons, people and fuel will be easy to replace in that part of the world.

Mines, however, will never fly. One kid maimed by a mine and the guys who hired you will want your head on a platter. Anything you can do with mines, you can do with something else, in this case. Even a small blocking force to stop reinforcement from the main town could hold down anything they encountered for long enough for the work to be done.

[CombatBoots]

We might agree on extracting by sea, but we would have several extraction plans.

[paracrusader]

I totally disregarded anything happening to the hostages and or ships taken by the pirates. Reminds me of that "Not my job" picture. :)



I was keeping to that like a priest to the bible.

Agreed. We're getting paid to do as told, nothing about hostages. But, for that matter, I'd assume they'd be in the town, and I have no intention of entering the town.

[wigon]

Mines on road are problematic if a road is paved (requires alot more work to mine them). However even if its on a dirt road, it might slow down things for a bit, but most of that area is open rocky desert and drivers would likely just drive off through open desert barring any whadi's (natural water run-off channels in the desert) that might block their way.
Gathering intel by forcing out of some captives is also rather risky. You'd need to capture a few people from the town before you could tell whether or not you're getting accurate intelligence. The prisoners would have to be kept seperate and interegated seperately told that if what they say doesn't match the information from the other prisoner's then that they'd be executed. You also have to make a decision whether to kill those prisoners regardless as they could slow you down unless you interrogated them offshore. Entering the area and leaving the area near the foothills would also be very tricky not to mention staying hidden during the day.
So overall... not impossible, but also very risky.
Finally you have the issue of foreign hostages held by the Pirates. Most likely the destruction of their ships would result in the execution of some of the hostages. They would likely buy new ships in short order from neighboring countries. That I think is the primary flaw in the "attack the pirate's resources" problem. Until you deal with the fundamental issue of hostages then you have to assume that hostages will be executed. Read my above plan for perhaps one way to get around that issue.

Wigon

[CombatBoots]

Yes but on the other hand, hostages are their power and their income, if you want to deny them money, free the hostages. Now that would be a strong message "You take our people we take your lives and get our people back" But that matter is a whole different kind of story and a totally different approach.

As for Helicopter noise, I've nothiced this came up, you can use the terrain around Eyl to make a route, sometimes even a helicopter can mighty surprise you, given right wind directions, thermals and terrain. But making such a cunning winding low route might leave our helos dry, also when considering additional fuel calculate in men and equipment, fuel weight added and fuel system weight added and compare it to the maximum permited loads on the helo you are thinking of using.

P.S. "On the other hand" refers to the "Not my job" approach I stated earlier.

[wigon]

A hostage rescue on a massively armed town probably wouldn't go over so well for the hostages. It would likely be a major battle just getting to them even using the heaviest armor. The Special Operations battle in Mogadishu last time we were in Somalia showed what happens when you try doing fast hitting air-assault over a heavily armed population.
At any rate..yeah..way out of bounds for this scenario. However you are right about the terrain masking helicopter noise. That might work, although if any pirate forces are on the other side where you are flying that may end badly. Still with that said, the main threat to something lik a Mi-8/17 HIP would be from DShK HMG fire. As long as the choppers stay well clear of those, they should be alright. Likewise night-time insertions/extractions will minimize the danger from AA fire.

Wigon

[paracrusader]

Gathering intel by forcing out of some captives is also rather risky.

Finally you have the issue of foreign hostages held by the Pirates. Most likely the destruction of their ships would result in the execution of some of the hostages. They would likely buy new ships in short order from neighboring countries. That I think is the primary flaw in the "attack the pirate's resources" problem. Until you deal with the fundamental issue of hostages then you have to assume that hostages will be executed.

Turnign this into a hostage rescue will exponentially complicate the mission. Intel is already a dicy issue, and I don't see it getting much better. With a roughly 100-man force on the ground, and assuming you knew their precise location, you'd have to fight your way to it, or be prepared to, enter/clear while you defend the site, secure them, escort them, this time most likely having to fight your way out, then provide transportation to an unknown number of them. I agree, it would hit the pirates where it hurt most, I just don't think it's possible.

At the same time, we can't pretend that our actions will have anything more than an immediate impact on their ability to operate. Trying to do anything else will just be banging our heads against a wall. Anything we do to them, they will be able to quickly recover from, based on what we have to work with and the scope of our mission. We are not attacking a strategic oil depot, or a major port, and we do not have the resources to occupy ground or search out every pirate. Anything in this area is replaceable, and likely will be, to include hostages. The psychological impact and any short-term effects are what are within our ability to influence. Killed leadership will be replaced, gunman will be replaced, guns will be replaced, flashy SUVs, boats or generator as well. Trying to think too big here will be counterproductive, IMHO.

Edit: In summary, all we can do is a raid.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Ok, right here there is a problem...a VERY BIG problem. Hostages.

You could say that. I see it as a challenge and an opportunity.


The intent should be much simpler.

Why? Because you don't like it?

The intent remains extant.

Good to see the majority brainstorming ways to achieve it rather than whinge about it.


120 personnel is very lean.

What would make you happy? 1200, 12.000?


That's almost impossible for such an operation unless somehow a key leader's home can be determined from open source information.

Ah, I think I see the issue. Comprehension. Or lack of on your part. Try reading that again, in it's intended context.


I don't have the time to complete all those details as the expenditures would require a tremendous amount of research that I would not even bother with unless an organization was indeed interested.


Then why 'bother' posting on the thread at all? Do you think we care?



If this thread doesn't meet your lofty standards or match your personal opinions on how this sort of thing should be run then feel free to stay away.

If you lack the impulse control to stay away then I will arrange it for you to stay away till after the 1st Feb 09.

Kthxbai...

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Ngati: Can we PM you with proposals for intelligence-gathering, and you provide us with intel? Not sure how we will work this. I mean, I'll gladly plan it without actual intel, but if we were to really do this...

From the first post.


Feel free to ask questions and clarify points, however, don't expect all the answers...

[California Joe]

First rule of Dogs of War: You can't change the rules.

[Red-Phos]

Is there any need to raid Eyl? Shurely smashing the PB,CB and ****ing the boats up will put them on there arse.

[ronnieraygun]

Is there any need to raid Eyl? Shurely smashing the PB,CB and ****ing the boats up will put them on there arse.

-tis the rules of the game, my friend. Of course there are other targets in the area, but the name of the game is Eyl. There is an economy of scale which has sprung up in Eyl based on this misery inflicted on others, complete with accountants, shooters for hire and all manner of hangers-on. Eyl is an excellent target.

[Red-Phos]

-tis the rules of the game, my friend. Of course there are other targets in the area, but the name of the game is Eyl. There is an economy of scale which has sprung up in Eyl based on this misery inflicted on others, complete with accountants, shooters for hire and all manner of hangers-on. Eyl is an excellent target.
Ok then i will send a fair few mortars into Eyl then **** it.

[planeman]

Somali raid

Warning: I am talking out of my arse.

In a nutshell:
I’m viewing this as a straight forward hostage rescue. There are two suspect compounds which I believe are the hostage areas. One is on the shore and is from now on called Suspect Building 1. This is the primary target. If we meet heavy resistance or are running late we will only tackle this site. If we meet no/light resistance we will try Suspect building 2 which is situated nearer the town. We will approach from the south because that offers the best dead-ground and fire support location:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7999/nomadproximityns7.jpg

The operation will be conducted from a mothership 10km offshore and using RIB. I did some quick research on the hovercraft option but getting a sufficiently large one in-theatre would prove problematic.


Threat Assessment
Really obvious here chaps but listen in. First off these buggers all have AKs and no shortage of RPG7s. There’ll also have some PKs and odds and sods. Expect them to put up a bit of a fight but it’s all guts and no training so we’ll fight it at night using IR and Night Vision to maximize the training advantage.

Somali pirate with leather jacket and jeans. And gun:
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5108/060706modernpiratesbigqg0.jpg
Now, there are about 150 houses in the target area so expect anywhere between 100-200 bandits plus up to 200 from the main town. The town is 4km from target area 1 so expect their reinforcements to take about 20 mins to arrive by, longer if on foot. Actually I expect far fewer enemy to put up a fight and the guys from the main town ain’t going to reach you but that’s all in the plan, later…

Tiger-Force PMC
Given the number of potential hostiles and relatively heavy armament, we’re going to deploy 50 guys, of which 40 are combat. Breakdown:
40 commando-infantry:
5 x 4 man squads (20men) for shock-troops (one is OC)
2x 4 man squads (8 men) for reserve
1 x 4 man mortar/fire support squad (60mm mortar)
2 x 2 man (4 men) GPMG fire support squads

We will also have 4 mother-boat crew, 5 coxswains and 1 seaplane pilot.

Recruitment:
Basic salary is USD 100k for job (1yr Blackwater pay). 250k to your next of kin if you are killed or MIA. Will pay up to USD 500 ransom if captured, but expect no pay and we reserve right to rescue you by force. Anyone found fraternizing with the enemy will be, um, told off in the most serious terms. Paid off-shore on with tax in your home country via ‘legitimate’ security companies. Cover story of service in Iraq provided. Successful applicants will have a minimum of 3 months in Iraq or similar proven credentials. Prior PSC/PMC experience preferred but military experience considered. Must be fit, discreet and a good team worker.

Personal kit.
Can use own kit if required. Naval looking boiler suit will be provided along with body armour, vest rigs and helmets (optional). Night vision/IR, GPS and comms provided (50k budget). Issued assault rifle will be Ruger AC-556:
http://k53.pbase.com/g6/77/612777/2/78132584.RQ6l817N.jpg
You can provide your own weapon and sidearm at discretion. Do not get caught smuggling them. Must be 5.56mm to ease ammo sharing. Green tracer will be issued ¼ to assist ID of friendly forces.

The fire support team will have two GPMGs (or if can’t get those, PKs or substitute).
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafregiment/rafcms/mediafiles/B0605A53_1143_EC82_2E9307767D68B1FA.jpg
Grenades and flash bangs will be provided 3 per man. One guy in the first four assault squads will have a silenced weapon. Probably VALs or VSS. VAL:
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as_val1.jpg

Uniform: Informal but we need to look enough like a naval party of a regular military so that conspiracy theories and blame games hide our true identity post-operation. Blue quick-drying boiler suits will be worn. Balaclavas or ski-masks for maximum visual impact when you burst through a door.

Prep.
Arrive in Maldives (Airport: Male) at D-day -17. There our ‘chartered’ seaplane will pick you up and take you to our training/staging hide-out for warm-up. Training regime starts D-Day -15. Location:
Kinshia, Yemen. Lightly populated island about 500km from target.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5456/trainingki9.jpg
There is a Yemeni military presence at Qulansiyah which is on the much larger island to the East. I’m going to bribe the Yemeni commander with USD 100k and prostitutes (which will be secretly filmed for blackmail purposes) to turn a blind eye and give us some transit use of his air port at Qadub. (Note to Google Earth searchers. There are tanks and similar defensive positions visible around Qulansiyah and Qadub).
Our training will be on the pretext of a training exercise with Yemeni forces at Qulansiyah which is not far fetched (the scars of trenches attest to an intermittent Yemeni military presence on this island). All elements of the operation will be practiced particularly amphibious assault and night fighting.


Sea Plane
Sources say that there is only one seaplane in whole of Africa but there’s some pretty decent sized ones in Maldives. Example:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9392/seaplanecw0.jpg
We are going to charter a bird like this for the following roles:
Transport
Recce
Casevac

The seaplane has the advantage of not requiring a runway, and being able to land near our motherboat for stores/troop/casualty transfer and to refuel allowing sufficient range.

Mothership
Suitable ocean-capable stern trawler (read: rear access for RIBs). A Zu-23-2 23mm AAA gun will be bolted onto the deck for fire support.
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8880/zu232illustrationtowedfq6.jpg

Aerial Recce.
I am not satisfied that publically available images are sufficiently up to date (no anchored freighters!) and whilst first hand accounts of captivity are useful I want a fresh photo recce on D-Day -1 by the sea plane. With no Somali government to speak off the chances of interception are remote. Over-land the plane will fly at 2km to minimize the likelihood of being shot down. Two of our guys with an array of expensive cameras will take 1000s of images which will be developed onboard the mothership in time for final briefing. The route of the recce flight will cover the target area (nearest the sea) and the main town before running along the cliff line and overflying the nomad settlement to the south and then turning back over-sea for a mid ocean refueling and transfer rendezvous with the mothership.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6215/reccewz5.jpg

Radar recce
On D-day – 7 the mothership will spend the night 4km off the coast near Eyl conducting radar surveillance to confirm that the Somalis do not routinely put to sea during the operation hours (11pm – 5am). 8 commandos will be on board to beef up defences with the GPMGs.


The assault.
Arrival will be by sea. The mothership will deploy the troops in 5 commercially purchased RIBs. These will have a crew of a single coxswain and be painted black/sand camo. All will be same model, with twin engines (redundancy) and at least two will have lightweight fishing-boat class navigation radar.
Helicopters were ruled out due to likelihood of being heard. Particularly by Nomadic settlement 6.3km SW of sea port. The boats have this risk too but less so and less out of place.
The raiders will land 3km south of the target and boats will leave to a holding place 2km offshore. This landing will be dangerous as there is minimal beach here but there is an access up the cliffs to allow us to take a looping route following a dry riverbed the ends up 500km south of the beach and is very close to the FSP. This route is about 5km. Landing will be a full 3.3hrs before assault to allow a good deal of time to get our **** in position.
The FSG will set up covering the whole village with the target at about 1.6m distance. They are also positioned to cut off the road connecting the beach settlement from the main town:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/3928/basicplan1fa5.jpg
The risk is that the Somalis may approach from the rear. For this reason the Mortar team has 4 men to allow a degree of all-round defence once it is set up.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3203/tracksiz4.jpg

The main target:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9156/targetdf1.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/647/target2wr3.jpg
The raiding teams will approach along the shoreline around the headland and assault the compound silently unless already compromised. Approach to the target will be perpendicular to the line-of site of the FSG. A local rifle/LMG equipped FSG will be established on the beach with 3 squads going forward and two back (separate from the reserve which will be on the beach near the headland). The boats on the beach will provide limited cover.
Extraction of the fire support team and any other forces at south end of beach will by the RIBs. Freed captives and assault force will borrow the Somali’s fishing boats and make for the rendezvous with the mothership which will come to about 800m of the shore and provide fire support with its 23mm cannon. Friendly forces will identify themselves with green glow sticks.

The seaplane will make a stand-off recce at first light and provide sitrep and spotting for the committed troops but remain off the coast. It’ll also meet the evacuated forces and deal with any casualties which will be evacuated to our bribed Yemeni friends.

Tea and a good fry up will be provided as we steam for the Seychelles to drop off the rescued people.

[Hellfish]

^ Good God! That's what we like to see.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Warning noted.

Impressive graphics.


I’m viewing this as a straight forward hostage rescue.

How does that fit your employers intent?

[Dispatcher]

Very good Planeman!

[planeman]

How does that fit your employers intent?

Well, the employer's intent was:


Intent

Organize a raid on the Town of Eyl on the Somali coast and it's surrounding area in order to destroy pirate infrastructure and neutralise pirate operations.

I plan to burn the main pirate building, steal a bunch of boats and shoot the only "pirate infrastructure" that is hard to replace: half the male population of the coastal village.

Not overly bothered whether this is the right take on it, but anyone who thinks a military raid can "neutralise pirate operations" is naive.

I looked at raiding the town, decided it wasn't realistic unless the coastal village is taken. So I scaled my raid back.

[SBL]

Bravo, Planeman. That was fun to read.

[Albatross]

Planeman, that was flat out impressive.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I plan to burn the main pirate building, steal a bunch of boats and shoot the only "pirate infrastructure" that is hard to replace: half the male population of the coastal village.

Oh, I didn't see that in your initial plan.

So, you're saying that half the male population of the coastal village are all in the one compound?



Not overly bothered whether this is the right take on it,

All that effort and you don't care?


but anyone who thinks a military raid can "neutralise pirate operations" is naive.

Why is that?

[wigon]

[I Deleted my post and won't post on this thread until told otherwise by the moderators]

[paracrusader]

I plan to burn the main pirate building, steal a bunch of boats and shoot the only "pirate infrastructure" that is hard to replace: half the male population of the coastal village.

Not overly bothered whether this is the right take on it, but anyone who thinks a military raid can "neutralise pirate operations" is naive.


Right on!

I agree, a single, small raid is not going to have any lasting impact on these guys. Maybe a supported, comprehensive campaign, or a series of raids. A raid, by definition, is a deliberate attack with limited objectives chracterized by a planned withdrawl. We're not going to destroy an army with expensive, hard to replace equiment or a large infrastructure that it relies on to operate. That would, in a way, be easier. There's not going to be a large depot of fuel or ammunition to destroy, nor an arms room or a headquarters, or bridges, or communications nodes, or large, expensive boats for that matter. Anything we can destroy can easily be replaced, to include the pirates themselves, although less so, as you said. What's not important here is the material losses we cause them, but the precedence you set and the psychological impact. Just my perspective on it.

[Adam Wilhelm]

Is your intent to destroy ships and boats?

Yes... because they are IMHO the best target with a minimum of collateral damage.

Edit:

I believe that the boats are a more easy target than to kill every male who can be a possible pirate.
And i´m thinking of destroying them instead of stealing them as CB pointed out, we don´t know which condition the boats are in.

[CombatBoots]

Once you have hit the beach and things start going Bang in that region, you will have people calling their buddies to inform them. We need to try and find a way to disrupt communications.

That the enemy has NVG always needs to be taken into account.

What if sentries with NVG are overlooking the beach, those white sands will make the men contrast hard. I'd say we better land further up north, get off the sand near the foothill there is more cocealment, also that area where the river almost connects to the ocean I would imagine that is water when the tide is up, or at least the sands will be very loose by the water oozing through it.

And about the boats, as somebody stated before they might not all be ready to go, some might be out of gas, some might have engine damage we can't know of, they would be further ashore so they wouldn't get carried out by the tide and they would be upside down, who is going to drag these out to sea under fire?

But really the best plan so far, no wait, so far the only real plan. Care to stick around and refine?

[ggk]

can we use plane template to refine the ops?

[Adam Wilhelm]

Suitable ocean-capable stern trawler (read: rear access for RIBs).

Disguise it as Yemeni fishing trawler and no one expects faul play.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/AdamWilhelm/illegal.gif
Pic taken from this site: http://www.geocities.com/gabobe/illegalfishing.html

[CombatBoots]

Disguise it as Yemeni fishing trawler and no one expects faul play.


Pic taken from this site: http://www.geocities.com/gabobe/illegalfishing.html

One problem, the pirates were as they claim first formed to protect the Somali fishing areas from outside illegal fishers amongst other things.

So to keep their "local hero" appeal they will make you a target to more than just piracy.

[Adam Wilhelm]

Ah... didn´t think of that. p-)

Another item, here´s a handheld UAV for less then 10 000$.
It can be equipped with a FLIR-camera for use at night and it is man transportable.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/AdamWilhelm/vision_welcome.gif

http://www.micropilot.com/prod_mpvisione.htm

And if you buy a transportboat like this:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i187/AdamWilhelm/big_capo145workjet_01.jpg

you can use 4-wheelers to transport the 60 mm mortar suggested by Planeman.
A lot easier then to hump them.

[CombatBoots]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSP9a1VMQCk

A view into Eyl, that I haven't seen in the other videos posted here.
Yet still, only 2 times did I spot an AK47 and I strongly believe it was the same man. It shows the Beach Village

[timetraveller]

25 million dollars = .........12 million plus change in uk currency

Is there closing date to submit your plan ...

[timetraveller]

http://www.kudosaviation.com/2005_agusta_grand_for_sale.html


With a Budget of 12million Pounds

My first buy would be a helo

my 2nd purchase

http://www.micropilot.com/prod_mpvisione.htm



MY 3rd buy would be The lady lola shadow 185 halter marine 1980/2004 - reason

This fine boat is also known as the ultimate toy carrier in the sailing world in which including in the price 1 helo , 1 custom tender and 24 nautica RIB,21*3 man submarine , jet skis and cataramaran and a 1960 fully restored Amphicar

Inturn givin my team various options of attack and survalliance Options as my disposal

More info to follow
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4288/ladylolashadow2f8bf33in5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CombatBoots]

Start off with what you're planning to do, then add manpower and equipment needed to accomplish.

[paracrusader]

Here's another angle, just throwing it out there...

Why not use the opportunity to instigate something, make these particular pirates think that the ones who did 'em dirty were not outsiders at all, but rival pirates. Or at least plant evidence to lead them to believe that outsiders had assistance from either rivals or one of their own? Throw some dirty tricks into the mix as secondary objectives, as described in various SOG books. Leave more of a lasting effect. Conduct your raid as planned, but maybe drag off a body, stuff his pockets with local currency, more than he would be expected to carry, and leave him near your extraction point? Maybe leave one of your own weapons on him, for example, if you are using a 5.56mm system, leave an old M-16 on him, to sow doubt as to whether he may have actually participated, and consequently create suspicion of his associates, friends and family. The possiblities are endless. The more chaos you can leave behind, the better.

Edit: Thought of something else: Just an idea. Why not just use a smaller force and simply wage a short but vicious series of mortar or rocket attacks, drive-by shootings, and car bombs? Say, over a 24-hour period. Maybe plant some bodies at the scene of some attacks, as I described above. I suppose that would fill the intent of attacking their infrastructure, and could definitely have the potential to cause a more lasting effect. However, if the intent is to not only cause them damage, but to let them know that they are vulnerable to outside threats and that there will be very real consequences for their actions, this obviously can't be our sole method.

[CombatBoots]

Sorry I was clearly out of line!

[planeman]

Mothership:

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8938/trawlerir9.jpg
http://www.atlanticship.dk/sw/frontend/show.asp?parent=143562&layout=0&show=35


FOLIO:


SFT 309
CATEGORY:Freezer trawlersTYPE:Feezer factory stern trawler for fish and shell fishBUILT YEAR:1979 NorwayCLASS:DNV +1A1, Stern Trawler, Ice C+ extra hull strengtheningTONNAGE GT/NT:650 GTDIMENSIONS:43.88 x 9 m.MAIN ENGINE:1500 BHP Wichmann 5AX, at 375 rpm (1103 kW)HOLD CAPACITIES:450 m3 freezing hold DECK EQUIPMENT:2 x trawl winches Rapp TWS 1220/4170 ■ 2 x gilson winches Rapp GVB 1200/4170 ■ 2 x briddle winches Rapp SWB 680/HMB 5 ■ Bollard pull 14 tsFREEZING EQUIPMENT:4 x Kværner vertical block freezers, abt. 22 ts/24 hrs. (1987) ■ Freezing hold (-35°C) divided into three holds, of which one 70 m3 is lined with steel and usable for bulk fish.FACTORY:Factory for headed and gutted cod with bleeding bins ■ 2 x Baader 424 H/G machines ■ Packing tablesINSPECTION :Upon arrangement with Atlantic ShippingPRICE:USD 1,000,000.00


Would have to be thoroughly cleaned and Zu-23-2 23mm cannon boldted to deck.

[Dave76]

Somali raid

Warning: I am talking out of my arse.

In a nutshell:
I’m viewing this as a straight forward hostage rescue. There are two suspect compounds which I believe are the hostage areas. One is on the shore and is from now on called Suspect Building 1. This is the primary target. If we meet heavy resistance or are running late we will only tackle this site. If we meet no/light resistance we will try Suspect building 2 which is situated nearer the town. We will approach from the south because that offers the best dead-ground and fire support location:

1. Why has this mission suddenly become a HR? How do you know any hostages are actually being held there?
2. How do you know there're two suspect compounds?
3. You believe the supposed hostages are being held there.
4. What if your hostages are being held elsewhere?



The operation will be conducted from a mothership 10km offshore and using RIB. I did some quick research on the hovercraft option but getting a sufficiently large one in-theatre would prove problematic.

Sounds okay.



Threat Assessment
Really obvious here chaps but listen in. First off these buggers all have AKs and no shortage of RPG7s. There’ll also have some PKs and odds and sods. Expect them to put up a bit of a fight but it’s all guts and no training so we’ll fight it at night using IR and Night Vision to maximize the training advantage.

Somali pirate with leather jacket and jeans. And gun:

Now, there are about 150 houses in the target area so expect anywhere between 100-200 bandits plus up to 200 from the main town. The town is 4km from target area 1 so expect their reinforcements to take about 20 mins to arrive by, longer if on foot. Actually I expect far fewer enemy to put up a fight and the guys from the main town ain’t going to reach you but that’s all in the plan, later…

Again, you're assuming too much. Just because you have seen photos of pirates armed only with handheld weapons doesn't mean they don't have access to bigger guns in and around their bases. This also goes for your wild guess concerning the actual strength of the enemy.




Aerial Recce.
I am not satisfied that publically available images are sufficiently up to date (no anchored freighters!) and whilst first hand accounts of captivity are useful I want a fresh photo recce on D-Day -1 by the sea plane. With no Somali government to speak off the chances of interception are remote. Over-land the plane will fly at 2km to minimize the likelihood of being shot down. Two of our guys with an array of expensive cameras will take 1000s of images which will be developed onboard the mothership in time for final briefing. The route of the recce flight will cover the target area (nearest the sea) and the main town before running along the cliff line and overflying the nomad settlement to the south and then turning back over-sea for a mid ocean refueling and transfer rendezvous with the mothership.


Radar recce
On D-day – 7 the mothership will spend the night 4km off the coast near Eyl conducting radar surveillance to confirm that the Somalis do not routinely put to sea during the operation hours (11pm – 5am). 8 commandos will be on board to beef up defences with the GPMGs.

Your only intel comes from one recce flight, one day prior to the raid? You can't be serious.

I'm not going to comment on your choice of weapons cause I think it's one of the least important points which actual assault rifle, sidearm etc. is carried. Just one observation: No grenade launcher, RPG, AT? What if suddenly a technical or even an armoured vehicle shows up? With just one recce flight you can't be sure what your threats are.


Don't get me wrong, it's a nice plan (pretty graphics ;-) ) but your whole assault plan depends on the assumption that the two compounds are the actual and only targets.

[lightfire]

I've got a question:

why do you need HMGs like ZU-23 on the ship, if the main assault would be on the shore? To spook the pirates out? A combined and precision firepower of machine guns and, grenade launchers might do that as well, plus you could deploy those fast of shore (on vehicles), no?

[CombatBoots]

I've got a question:

why do you need HMGs like ZU-23 on the ship, if the main assault would be on the shore? To spook the pirates out? A combined and precision firepower of machine guns and, grenade launchers might do that as well, plus you could deploy those fast of shore (on vehicles), no?

I believe it is quite a good weapon be it for defence of the ship or if everything goes wrong and the ship needs to come in close to pick up everybody.


Basicly we need more intel, we need to patch every hole in what we don't know. That Compound, building 1... Could be where somebody keeps his goats for all we know. Let us call any hostage rescue a bonus, not our main intent which is a raid. So we should plan for hostages to be there, and we should plan for the possibility of having to drag them with us on extraction.

Does anybody know another source of satellite images besides Google Earth/Maps? Because seems like Eyl was overflown around mid 2005.

[CombatBoots]

1. Why has this mission suddenly become a HR? How do you know any hostages are actually being held there?
3. You believe the supposed hostages are being held there.



Somali Pirates Keep Hundreds of Hostages in Pirate City of Eyl
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454124,00.html

[junglejim]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,454124,00.html


Yes so there are hostage, that wasnt part of what our "emloyers" concern, right? So why include it? For me unless they put a bounty on the head of each hostages, really doesnt matter.

As for the ZSU 23 on the ship, yes, cause nothing screams "Commercial Fishing Trawler" like a ZSU on the bow

[CombatBoots]

Yes so there are hostage, that wasnt part of what our "emloyers" concern, right? So why include it? For me unless they put a bounty on the head of each hostages, really doesnt matter.

As for the ZSU 23 on the ship, yes, cause nothing screams "Commercial Fishing Trawler" like a ZSU on the bow

If during your planning you see the chance to save the people it is definately something I'd calculate in, if we're going to raid and actually be in control of any area where we find hostages, we can free them and order them, and I believe they might actually listen if they believe we are there to rescue them, order them to get those pirate boats out to sea while we procede with the mission.

Not going out of our way to save them.

P.S. Forgot to reply about the ZSU being there, the ship will be 10 kilometers out, and we could cover it place crates of sorts near it and covering the whole thing wish cloth.

[junglejim]

If during your planning you see the chance to save the people it is definately something I'd calculate in, if we're going to raid and actually be in control of any area where we find hostages, we can free them and order them, and I believe they might actually listen if they believe we are there to rescue them, order them to get those pirate boats out to sea while we procede with the mission.

Not going out of our way to save them.

I think we have different plans in mind, Im trying to set up something, just not sure if I have time maybe over the holidays when Im alone.

Just me, but I would stick with what the employers are asking for. **** happens once you deviate from the plan. So far my idea is a quick hit and run with the promise of "we are coming back if you dont stop piracy".... unfortunately there is no plans for hostage rescue, again thats not a part of the $24 million.

Go in, do the business, get out, destroy all possible trace of your existence. Yes all the equipment will end up at the bottom of the ocean, including the mothership. Dont think the "employers" are into souvenirs either.

[paracrusader]

http://store.warfare.ru/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,877/category_id,18/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,26/

Asking price for Zu-23: $18,896.31, with several left in stock!

EDIT: The link worked not more than 10 minutes ago, now it's not. Shame, I bookmarked it to look at what else they had for sale, looked promising. Anyways, I'm kind of into the idea of having something heavy to bring in close to shore. Using this on any boats in port definitely beats trying to walk up and manually demolish them, not to mention using it as a support weapon system and to cover the exfil.

[Pete031]

What happens if you lose the mother ship while you are on the ground? **** happens. DO you have an E&E plan.
I would land far away from the target area, with gun trucks sporting MK 19s or eqiuvilant and 50's or gpmgs.
Have a dismounted recce patrol in the area a week prior to the assault, not only observing but marking mortar postions, gun lines, attack lines, lod's etc....

If you are treating this like a conventional raid, then it's all bad guys. Link up with Recce, get the Target buildings, have a section of Mortars on the high ground attack it along with a firebase. Send in an assault element to clean up, while the remainder of the troops either cover from the high ground or attack sunsequent targets. Egress back to you ORV, mount up and drive back to the landing point after mission complete.

I would think LRDP in WW2 in North Africa.

[MoFo]

Roll in with some of these Mofo's

http://www.lrdg.org/images/desert21.jpg

Bricks would be shat.

[paracrusader]

What happens if you lose the mother ship while you are on the ground? **** happens.

Have a dismounted recce patrol in the area a week prior to the assault, not only observing but marking mortar postions, gun lines, attack lines, lod's etc....


Good point on the mother ship, however I would not have it remain static for long, and definitely not within small arms-range of shore. The range of the 23mm gun is up to 2500m, with a firing rate of 400rpm. Bring it in for a minute or two to initiate fires on any boats in the port. Granted, at sea that max effective range will be greatly reduced, even more so on a small ship, but I think asking for area fires from 1000m off-shore is not unreasonable. There's variants with advanced optics, such as thermal, ect, and I'm sure there's something out there like an IR laser/IR site combo. It would help maximize your on-shore element. Not sure if I'd go this way myself, just brainstorming a bit, but it's worth some thought.

As far as having anyone on the ground in that capacity for as long as you are proposing, I think that the gain is not worth the risk. You'd have to have some sort of QRF on a short leash nearby for the duration, which would likely dictate having some sort of airmobile capability, which, for that long, is going to take a big bite out of your budget. Not to mention, what if they are compromised, do you continue the mission, now that they are likely to be expecting something? Do you rescue your guys?

Just my 2 cents.

[Createdeemcee]

When do we go planeman, Great plan. Well thought.

[Pete031]

No matter who you work with there is always the possibility of compromise. They would have an E&E plan, to make it to an RV.

The problem with Sea Borne assaults, is that you don't really have a foot on the ground until you capture that beach head. You have some heavy **** on your boat, but nothing like arty.

As soon as the ship is seen, or the RHIBs, you are compromised. That is before you have fire down range.
Doing it from the ground, gives you more time, better position and the ability to change tactics on the fly.
Plus there is no possibility of getting hung up on the beach and being pushed into the sea.

Recce Dets do this type of work all the time. Hell , I'd probably do it. The gun trucks and troops can use natural terrain features to move from the landing site to the Objective RV. If the come under contact, they will have enough fire power to fight through and still make it to the ORV.

[ggk]

the Zu-23 should be hidden, maybe with some sort of box or contaena?

[Razvodnik]

Instead to buying a vesel i would prefer to rent a small Container Ship. So we get enough space to carry on an Mi8 with Ukrainian crew for MEDEVAC and CAS. Also possible to install a 105mm or 122mm artillery piece for cover fire.

[junglejim]

Interesting, I guess most are into an amphibious invasion rather than a raid.

Question to the ZSU enthisiasts: If its on the bow of a ship and the pirates are riding on small dinghies, how do you expect the cannons to aim at them?

[CombatBoots]

What do you mean, of course turn it sideways and let all the men run to whichever side the cannon is pointing to lower it enough to take a shot.

[ggk]

we can put the ZSU on top a jury rig lift mechanism, you raise it so that the cannon can get a lower elevation? or depression... damn im a noob

[Razvodnik]

Interesting, I guess most are into an amphibious invasion rather than a raid.

Question to the ZSU enthisiasts: If its on the bow of a ship and the pirates are riding on small dinghies, how do you expect the cannons to aim at them?
This would be pretty difficult at a close range. I would like to see a couple .50 for the intruders ;-)

Maybe it would be an option to swith the ZU23 into an 40mm Bofors? So we could stay away more far away from shore, and the gunners have more time to focus there target.

[Pete031]

If yo are staging off shore in a ship, better hope they don't have mortars. Or heavy MG's.

[paracrusader]

Interesting, I guess most are into an amphibious invasion rather than a raid.

Question to the ZSU enthisiasts: If its on the bow of a ship and the pirates are riding on small dinghies, how do you expect the cannons to aim at them?

It's still a raid, it's just that my preferred mode of transportation, and the most realistic and cost-effective, is by sea. Not an invasion- the intent is not to hold ground for any meaningful duration.

Personally, I had it more in mind as a shore-bombardment type weapon, not engaging at small range. Mainly for engaging pirate boats in port, but also for suppressing any heavy weapons that interfere with the raiding force, and for covering the extraction from the beach, if necessary. For point defense, I'd have some sort of MMGs aboard with the crew. Of course, if my raiding force was aboard the ship, they'd be able to deal with the threat as well. The range on a M240, M60 or PK is still far greater than that of an RPG, the most dangerous weapon I would expect them to carry on one of their boats. As far as mortars or HMGs ashore, by the time anyone realized that a ship was firing 23mm shells at them, the ship would have moved further out, and the raiding force would be their main concern. I would consider the mortar threat negligable. Recoilless rifles, on the other hand, we know that they have, as well as 12.7mm HMGs.

Really, I am only playing devil's advocate. Acquiring and mounting a Zu-23 on a commercial boat may seem easy in theory, and is definitely feasible, but I think the effort would not be worth it. How to mount it? Wherre to acquire it? Certinaly not in the states, and are you going to pay a crew to sail to it's seller, wherever that may be? I love the idea, but for me, I would go without.

[paracrusader]

This would be pretty difficult at a close range. I would like to see a couple .50 for the intruders ;-)

Maybe it would be an option to swith the ZU23 into an 40mm Bofors? So we could stay away more far away from shore, and the gunners have more time to focus there target.

I assume the 23mm is the cheapest and most easily mounted, as well as with the cheapest ammo. Looked around a bit, and can't find a price for a 40mm, but I must admit that a bofors mount would be awesome. Only problem, you would not be able to make full use out of the max range without investing in some kind of fire control, which, for a ship would be a bit pricery. A couple .50s, cool as well, and worth thinking about. Maybe not for the ship itself, but maybe for one or two of the smaller vessels used for infil and exfil? But, again, not so much to deal with pirate attacks, more for dealing with defense of the exfil. I really think that you could easily repel any pirate attack with small arms alone.

[dacanadianbomb]

Do it the less Gucci way and send out dismounted patrols. Lots of high features around.

This is exactly what I am working into my plan.
There are a few problems I am facing though.
1. the points I have chosen for reconnoiter are literally within rifle range - ie within 400 meters of the target they are observing
2. The fact that there is little to no shaded cover anywhere with a vantage point, the guys observing would need ridiculous amounts of water and hydro salts to stay capable of exfiling or being of any use after the amount of heat they have to endure.

[CombatBoots]

Pete are we assuming the village is "All bad guys" because footage clearly shows a large civilian population very well intertwined with the pirates. Having mortars soften our target would not be something I could take lightly.

Maybe I got you wrong.

dcb, can you issue your observers with some camo cover, that would give a little of shade and help with concealment, in some of the videos it seems there are sort of "Cavings" under the top of the rock at places.

[Pete031]

Well, they can rotate on position while the remainder stay back in the Objective RV. Look for Wadi's, groves, etc... Stay as far back as possible, but within range of your optics. If you have to creep further, do so at night.
As long as you have good SA on your target, you can be further away then 400m.

[Pete031]

Pete are we assuming the village is "All bad guys" because footage clearly shows a large civilian population very well intertwined with the pirates. Having mortars soften our target would not be something I could take lightly.

Maybe I got you wrong.

dcb, can you issue your observers with some camo cover, that would give a little of shade and help with concealment, in some of the videos it seems there are sort of "Cavings" under the top of the rock at places.

That is something you will have to determine. What is this mission? is it kill capture all fighting age males or is it selective.... If you are going with a conventional raid, then most likely you want to kill everything in the ville.
If you are not, then things get more tricky. And your ZSU all of a sudden goes out of play.

[Albatross]

No matter who you work with there is always the possibility of compromise. They would have an E&E plan, to make it to an RV.

The problem with Sea Borne assaults, is that you don't really have a foot on the ground until you capture that beach head. You have some heavy **** on your boat, but nothing like arty.

As soon as the ship is seen, or the RHIBs, you are compromised. That is before you have fire down range.
Doing it from the ground, gives you more time, better position and the ability to change tactics on the fly.
Plus there is no possibility of getting hung up on the beach and being pushed into the sea.

Recce Dets do this type of work all the time. Hell , I'd probably do it. The gun trucks and troops can use natural terrain features to move from the landing site to the Objective RV. If the come under contact, they will have enough fire power to fight through and still make it to the ORV.

Use two blocking forces in the rear to cut off the escape, with the main force assaulting the beach. Target can be softened with Naval Bombardment. Use the night as cover for infil. Send a team further a few miles up or down the beach, plant some mines or timed explosives to create a diversion for the main assault force. You could drop the blocking forces in via airborne insertion.

[BlackFlag]

Use two blocking forces in the rear to cut off the escape, with the main force assaulting the beach. Target can be softened with Naval Bombardment. Use the night as cover for entrance. Send a team further a few miles up or down the beach, plant some mines or timed explosives to create a diversion for the main assault force. You could drop the blocking forces in via airborne insertion.


Sounds plausible. There is a minor cliff section just on the south/south eastern edge of Eyl. You could have a "Search and Destroy" type raid, similar to those used in Vietnam and Op. Phantom Fury. Main force enters from the north or north east, and pushes the hostile force south into the cliff region, where a force armed with heavy weapons could finish the job.

[Pete031]

Thats getting expensive. And goes away from the KISS idea... When you get into Airborne or Heliborne ops, take into account what happened in Sierra Leone.

There is not much cover for a helo insertion. Unless you get a cordon on the go, then you will still need gun trucks.

I'll I'm saying is that if you go in by sea, to assault a town, you may need more then just a company size. You have no foot on the ground. No where to maneuvre. And no crafts large enough to shell the beach.

Also, if you are discriminating in regards to targets, you can't fire your heavy weapons from the sea anyway.

I am just trying to give you some things to think about. I am not a stategist by any means.

But there are some basics..... Good SA
A foot on the ground
Covering fire
alternate positions and routes.... etc, etc.....

[Pete031]

Sounds plausible. There is a minor cliff section just on the south/south eastern edge of Eyl. You could have a "Search and Destroy" type raid, similar to those used in Vietnam and Op. Phantom Fury. Main force enters from the north or north east, and pushes the hostile force south into the cliff region, where a force armed with heavy weapons could finish the job.

Without good intelligence, you hav no idea how many people are there, or if they are going to stay and fight, or if they will flee. They may have a Batt size force. If they see a platoon coming at them, they will most likely dig in.

[CombatBoots]

They are the same caliber of men that were in Mogadishu, some of them actually have been under those warlords in those fights, also enjoy to chew their khat like most in the region. They are likely to stay and fight.

[Albatross]

You can get some HUMINT elements on the ground via public trans. They can just get on a bus and come in, 2-4 of them. Get them on the ground ASAP. They could ID the HVT locations and movements.