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View Full Version : Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret



Laworkerbee
12-22-2008, 02:56 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) - It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going?

But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it.

"We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,'" said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to."

The Associated Press contacted 21 banks that received at least $1 billion in government money and asked four questions: How much has been spent? What was it spent on? How much is being held in savings, and what's the plan for the rest?

None of the banks provided specific answers.

"We're not providing dollar-in, dollar-out tracking," said Barry Koling, a spokesman for Atlanta, Ga.-based SunTrust Banks Inc., which got $3.5 billion in taxpayer dollars.

Some banks said they simply didn't know where the money was going.

"We manage our capital in its aggregate," said Regions Financial Corp. (RF) spokesman Tim Deighton, who said the Birmingham, Ala.-based company is not tracking how it is spending the $3.5 billion it received as part of the financial bailout.

The answers highlight the secrecy surrounding the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which earmarked $700 billion - about the size of the Netherlands' economy - to help rescue the financial industry. The Treasury Department has been using the money to buy stock in U.S. banks, hoping that the sudden inflow of cash will get banks to start lending money.

There has been no accounting of how banks spend that money. Lawmakers summoned bank executives to Capitol Hill last month and implored them to lend the money - not to hoard it or spend it on corporate bonuses, junkets or to buy other banks. But there is no process in place to make sure that's happening and there are no consequences for banks who don't comply.

"It is entirely appropriate for the American people to know how their taxpayer dollars are being spent in private industry," said Elizabeth Warren, the top congressional watchdog overseeing the financial bailout.

But, at least for now, there's no way for taxpayers to find that out.

Pressured by the Bush administration to approve the money quickly, Congress attached nearly no strings on the $700 billion bailout in October. And the Treasury Department, which doles out the money, never asked banks how it would be spent.

"Those are legitimate questions that should have been asked on Day One," said Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., a House Financial Services Committee member who opposed the bailout as it was rushed through Congress. "Where is the money going to go to? How is it going to be spent? When are we going to get a record on it?"

Nearly every bank AP questioned - including Citibank and Bank of America, two of the largest recipients of bailout money - responded with generic public relations statements explaining that the money was being used to strengthen balance sheets and continue making loans to ease the credit crisis.

A few banks described company-specific programs, such as JPMorgan Chase's plan to lend $5 billion to nonprofit and health care companies next year. Richard Becker, senior vice president of Wisconsin-based Marshall & Ilsley Corp. (MI) (MI), said the $1.75 billion in bailout money allowed the bank to temporarily stop foreclosing on homes.

But no bank provided even the most basic accounting for the federal money.

"We're choosing not to disclose that," said Kevin Heine, spokesman for Bank of New York Mellon, which received about $3 billion.

Others said the money couldn't be tracked. Bob Denham, a spokesman for North Carolina-based BB&T Corp., said the bailout money "doesn't have its own bucket." But he said taxpayer money wasn't used in the bank's recent purchase of a Florida insurance company. Asked how he could be sure, since the money wasn't being tracked, Denham said the bank would have made that deal regardless.

Others, such as Morgan Stanley (MS) spokeswoman Carissa Ramirez, offered to discuss the matter with reporters on condition of anonymity. When AP refused, Ramirez sent an e-mail saying: "We are going to decline to comment on your story."

Most banks wouldn't say why they were keeping the details secret.

"We're not sharing any other details. We're just not at this time," said Wendy Walker, a spokeswoman for Dallas-based Comerica Inc., which received $2.25 billion from the government.

Heine, the New York Mellon Corp. spokesman who said he wouldn't share spending specifics, added: "I just would prefer if you wouldn't say that we're not going to discuss those details."

The banks which came closest to answering the questions were those, such as U.S. Bancorp and Huntington Bancshares Inc., that only recently received the money and have yet to spend it. But neither provided anything more than a generic summary of how the money would be spent.

Lawmakers say they want to tighten restrictions on the remaining, yet-to-be-released $350 billion block of bailout money before more cash is handed out. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said the department is trying to step up its monitoring of bank spending.

"What we've been doing here is moving, I think, with lightning speed to put necessary programs in place, to develop them, implement them, and then we need to monitor them while we're doing this," Paulson said at a recent forum in New York. "So we're building this organization as we're going."

Warren, the congressional watchdog appointed by Democrats, said her oversight panel will try to force the banks to say where they've spent the money.

"It would take a lot of nerve not to give answers," she said.

But Warren said she's surprised she even has to ask.

"If the appropriate restrictions were put on the money to begin with, if the appropriate transparency was in place, then we wouldn't be in a position where you're trying to call every recipient and get the basic information that should already be in public documents," she said.

Garrett, the New Jersey congressman, said the nation might never get a clear answer on where hundreds of billions of dollars went.

"A year or two ago, when we talked about spending $100 million for a bridge to nowhere, that was considered a scandal," he said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081222/D957QL7O0.html

I'm so sick of this ****.

lightfire
12-22-2008, 03:01 PM
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1540/127/113/9800373/n9800373_32226451_5884.jpg

Laworkerbee
12-22-2008, 03:02 PM
^ I LOL-ed

SoSo
12-22-2008, 03:43 PM
Are you kidding? That money went into the pockets of some fat-cat banking execs, as a well-earned Christmas bonus, for the the fantastic job they did managing the money.

Albatross
12-22-2008, 03:44 PM
This is the kinda crap that got us into this mess in the first place. If they are publicly owned they have to provide some kind of clarity to how they spend there money. If it comes out that this is going to the execs, I say we start the revolution.

Rilence
12-22-2008, 03:50 PM
This is the kinda crap that got us into this mess in the first place. If they are publicly owned they have to provide some kind of clarity to how they spend there money. If it comes out that this is going to the execs, I say we start the revolution.

Nothing will be done. It'll be blown off (to the extent of not doing anything) while we head further downhill. That seems to be the mindset of this country. Apathy.

click
12-22-2008, 03:57 PM
This is the kinda crap that got us into this mess in the first place. If they are publicly owned they have to provide some kind of clarity to how they spend there money. If it comes out that this is going to the execs, I say we start the revolution.

Ill play as long as i can be banker when we set up the new government. p-)

Hispeed1
12-22-2008, 07:05 PM
You wan't to know where it went? Right into their pockets... "Uh-yeah, umm, we can't disclose where it went."

sammy03
12-22-2008, 07:07 PM
And the money goes to...... the Golden Boys!!!

Macs.
12-22-2008, 08:19 PM
This is like a beggar sitting on a street, and altought everyone knows they mostly just buy alcohol with the money they make from begging, some people still pretend that they will use this money to get back on their own feet.

sammy03
12-22-2008, 08:20 PM
This is like a beggar sitting on a street, and altought everyone knows they mostly just buy alcohol with the money they make from begging, some people still pretend that they will use this money to get back on their own feet.

Good example Macs.clever.

CG51
12-22-2008, 08:23 PM
Hey, those execs deserve every penny they get, They work hard for it.

deagle
12-22-2008, 09:24 PM
they shoulve given it directly to the people, like the low-ball stimulus check. last time we trusted higher ups in business and govt, they squandered it. guess the people really don't have that much power.

JBH22
12-22-2008, 11:56 PM
this crisis is making my life hell,had to submit a casse-study on the failure of AIG now the professor wants us to understand the root cause of this crisis.
credit derivatives are ****:(

Albatross
12-22-2008, 11:58 PM
this crisis is making my life hell,had to submit a casse-study on the failure of AIG now the professor wants us to understand the root cause of this crisis.
credit derivatives are ****:(

The root cause for this crisis have nothing to do with credit derivatives man, this is about greed. See: sub-prime lending. I can extrapolate if you would like.

lightfire
12-23-2008, 05:24 AM
nice one Macs, can I qoute you for the magazine on this? p-)

Kilgor
12-23-2008, 05:56 AM
The root cause for this crisis have nothing to do with credit derivatives man, this is about greed. See: sub-prime lending. I can extrapolate if you would like.

exactly

Commission with Zero responsibility if the loan goes bad. Why not sign up every crack addict from the gutter, you get your cut... no risk.

RSone
12-23-2008, 11:44 AM
The answers highlight the secrecy surrounding the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which earmarked $700 billion - about the size of the Netherlands' economy - to help rescue the financial industry.

inb4 LOLDUTCH.... At least our government is on top of this shyte, with noticeable effect. Kinda makes me think about the ludicrousy of the whole situation. The US goverment basically gave the equivalent of my economy away to the buttraiders at JP morgan etc. Imagine our PM telling ING: Here, have our economy, we don't use it much anyway.....:|

budgie
12-23-2008, 07:39 PM
It's fair enough to be cynical about the fat cats on Wall St getting a bailout and I agree they, personally, don't deserve it.

However I read an opinion piece recently that argued an interesting proposition: letting the auto makers go under would be painful for the economy, but as in an amputation, the patient would survive. The financial sector however pretty much is the economy, considering groups like Citi have their hands in so many different pots, and propping them up is like giving a full heart transplant - without it the patient will die.

In other words, they may not deserve a bailout but that bailout is still essential or they'll drag everyone else down with them.

Rokovak
12-23-2008, 08:06 PM
In other words, they may not deserve a bailout but that bailout is still essential or they'll drag everyone else down with them.As opposed to them dragging us down anyway while they stay on top of the world? Seeing as how the American public is getting f**ked any which way, I don't see what difference it makes.

sinophile
12-23-2008, 11:08 PM
I've read someplace (can't recall where) the bulk of the bailout money that has gone to commercial banks has come back to the Fed via Treasury bond purchases, repurchase agreements and other mechanisms. This allows them to continue to repair bank balance sheets without an equal effect on overall monetary supply.

I've said it before on this forum and I'll say it again... The USGOV has the means to make a profit off this event in one of several ways:


- Large scale debt refinance. To the extent new Treasury debt issued at 0-2.63 percent replaces old paper you're witnessing an historic refinance of US debt at favorable rates.

- Distressed asset investment. The Treasury and the Fed are buying heavily discounted paper with notional yields far in excess of their cost of capital and a time horizon that allows them to hold until their power over economic policy inflates the value of the paper. For a percentage of the paper (certainly not the majority) the risk is minimal and there is upside.

- Equity investment. The USGOV now owns equity in many of the best brands in US banking. Banks that didn't need TARP funds were forced to take it. I can't see how the Feds can lose money on this.

- Increased foreign reserves. I haven't checked this against reported numbers, but there's been a flight to the dollar of late that many predict will continue. This offers the USGOV unprecedented control over US currency rates. For the moment the demand for US dollars is high enough to support record low interest rates and still have treasury auction success.

None of this helps individuals and small/medium businesses one bit. There is a lot of pain out there without much good news. But, if the Bush administration is teeing it (the balance sheet) up for Obama to deficit spend the US out of recession they're doing a good job IMHO.

GIJOEJK
12-24-2008, 01:14 AM
It's fair enough to be cynical about the fat cats on Wall St getting a bailout and I agree they, personally, don't deserve it.

However I read an opinion piece recently that argued an interesting proposition: letting the auto makers go under would be painful for the economy, but as in an amputation, the patient would survive. The financial sector however pretty much is the economy, considering groups like Citi have their hands in so many different pots, and propping them up is like giving a full heart transplant - without it the patient will die.

In other words, they may not deserve a bailout but that bailout is still essential or they'll drag everyone else down with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcMr9vrCljA

budgie
12-24-2008, 02:40 AM
As opposed to them dragging us down anyway while they stay on top of the world? Seeing as how the American public is getting f**ked any which way, I don't see what difference it makes.

The difference being that between bad recession and full-scale depression. According to the story, as bad as things are the bailout is stopping them from getting unmanageable.

snafu_72
12-24-2008, 08:19 AM
A decade from now this bailout will be seen as either the biggest swindle ever perpatrated on the American people or the best thing since the New Deal. The one problem that exists today is that there is no way to determine which is the case. When you're up to your a$$ in alligators sometimes its impossible to determine whether the job was to drain the swamp or feed the gators. All that can be determined for now is that financial mismanagement of an epic proportion is not only being rewarded but in the height of audacity is being lauded as a savior. I could only hope that at my job a monumental miscalculation would be not only seen as a minor bump but I would be given carte blanche to do it again and again without punishment!

sinophile
12-24-2008, 03:33 PM
A decade from now this bailout will be seen as either the biggest swindle ever perpatrated on the American people or the best thing since the New Deal. The one problem that exists today is that there is no way to determine which is the case. When you're up to your a$$ in alligators sometimes its impossible to determine whether the job was to drain the swamp or feed the gators. All that can be determined for now is that financial mismanagement of an epic proportion is not only being rewarded but in the height of audacity is being lauded as a savior. I could only hope that at my job a monumental miscalculation would be not only seen as a minor bump but I would be given carte blanche to do it again and again without punishment!

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. "

- Alexander Tytler

Bottom-line: blame yourself and your neighbor.

redhawk_six
12-24-2008, 04:49 PM
One little thing to think about with the bailout:

the $700 billion dollar bailout is enough money to pay every single american, of every age, from one day old to the oldest person, from the richest, to the poorest, $2300 dollars

instead, it's virtually disappeared, the only people who likely really know what happened to it are the bank execs

sinophile
12-24-2008, 11:25 PM
One little thing to think about with the bailout:

the $700 billion dollar bailout is enough money to pay every single american, of every age, from one day old to the oldest person, from the richest, to the poorest, $2300 dollars

instead, it's virtually disappeared, the only people who likely really know what happened to it are the bank execs

Merry Christmas. You're an idiot. Go back and re-read my post on page 1. Ho, ho, ho!

- Santa