Where do security companies/PMCs get their weapons?

[the.jaguar]

Where do security companies/PMCs get their weapons? Contractors oftenly armed with M4 only, are there any restriction for contractors to use a specific weapon? Is it illegal for contractors to use their own weapons instead of using weapons provided by their company.

[domokun]

Where do security companies/PMCs get their weapons? Contractors oftenly armed with M4 only, are there any restriction for contractors to use a specific weapon? Is it illegal for contractors to use their own weapons instead of using weapons provided by their company.

This is only educated guess. but anyway...

Security companies and PMC's get their armament and other equipment from normal sources, licensed fire arms dealers mostly. As normally most what they do is training in "civilized world" (opposed to conflict zones). If you take a look at any gun manufacturers or major gun dealers web page they have different selection for special customers like law enforcement, those guns aren't complient with certain parts of civilian rules like barrel lenght and fully automatic fire option. Basically you follow local rules and you'll get licences for that equipment you need legally as long you have good reason for having those and you'll business is really what you say it would be. Guns for example are purchased from dealers usually as few companies are big enough to buy directly from manufacturers.

[GG]

Contracts with the Government specify which weapons a contractor will be armed with. They use documentation from the client to purchase the arms.

[the.jaguar]

What if the contractor decided to buy and use his own weapons instead, does it restricted by the company or the contract?

[digrar]

Ever tried to take a weapon through several countries flying commercially before?

[lukasss]

Too much administration (transporting weapons in the country), just send yout iraqi middleman to black market for brand new AK (romanian mostly) for few bucks...

[Hispeed1]

Too much administration (transporting weapons in the country), just send yout iraqi middleman to black market for brand new AK (romanian mostly) for few bucks...

Great answer Lukass :-(

[Albatross]

Great answer Lukass :-(


You have no idea what you are talking about, I wouldn't berate him.

[lukasss]

Great answer Lukass :-(

Well, i heard that here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsC8EdxZl0k&feature=related) (from 6:30) and it sounds simply / effective to me...

[click]

Too much administration (transporting weapons in the country), just send yout iraqi middleman to black market for brand new AK (romanian mostly) for few bucks...

Beat me to it. Nice one! :)

[Lefty]

From what I understand, all of the above and more.

I'm curious to as to how they get ammunition, same sources as firearms, or is it easier to get ammunition into places like Iraq for PMCs?

[Erik2a4]

Excellent video. Thanks for posting it.

[USMC29]

Its funny that shadow company doc has the exact answer to this as shown above.

If you dont want to deal with the permits/customs you send a guy out to the black market. I don't know how dated this info thought.

[deagle]

they use either company available gear/arsenal, or they pay from their own pockets. there are lots of sites that cater to them (blackhawk, lightfighter).

there's also ebay also.

[James]

Contracts with the Government specify which weapons a contractor will be armed with. They use documentation from the client to purchase the arms.

What he said. I've never heard of anyone using their own weapons overseas.

[Dinges]

Here you go. A one stop shop.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/troopsupport/index.html?

[the.jaguar]

Found this on facebook... looks like a R93 blaser
are they suppose to have sniper rifles in their armory?

[Erik2a4]

Found this on facebook... looks like a R93 blaser
are they suppose to have sniper rifles in their armory?

Yes. Counter-sniper and static security.

[James]

Call it a "designated defensive marksman rifle". That sounds more friendly.

[supercontra]

Deer hunting on R&R.
A bit off topic but not quite.
How do the weapon laws in the US work with regards to PMC companies.
For example Blackwater trains with rather heavy weapons. Does anyone have information on how this works or can anyone set up a "training facility" and purchase .50 machine guns?

[California Joe]

Your best bet would be to look up the regulations on the BATFE website.

You need a Class 3 license for full auto anything.

[bababooey]

Question: Would a company like Blackwater adopt a weapon along the lines of a national army? For example, the US Army uses the M4 carbine as a standard arm. Would Blackwater have a standard rifle for its "army"? And if so, would they develop or adopt a totally new design, such as the Magpul.

Would the idea of a PMC adopting a rifle of its own design have any merit? Let's say if Blackwater is contracted to train the army of Somalia, and Blackwater brings Magpul's with them. Could they then market the Magpul to the Somali's?

[Yarrick2]

oops double tap.

[Yarrick2]

not true any non-felon citizen can own a MG, SBR, DD, silencer or AoW. just fill out the paperwork, send it in to the ATF along with a $200 check for "handling" your paperwork, and put up with a long-ass wait right now for them to OK you. the class three lisence is for dealers only, Blackwater may have a SOT (special ocupational tax) but i doubt it because thats mainly producers.


Registration, purchases, taxes and transfers

It is a common misconception[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] that an individual must have a "Class 3 License" in order to own NFA weapons. This is not the case. One must only have a Class 3 license (more properly known as an 03 SOT) to buy and sell NFA weapons as a business. Individual owners do not need any license under the NFA to buy Title II weapons. The purchase and sale of NFA weapons is, however, heavily taxed and regulated, as follows.
All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms,_and_Explosives) (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain permission from the ATF, obtain a signature from the county sheriff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheriff) or city or town chief of police (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_of_police) (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_check) to include submitting a photograph and finger prints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax. The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#cite_note-1)
NFA items may also be transferred to corporations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporations) (or other legal entities such as a trust). When the paperwork to request transfer of an NFA item is initiated by an officer of a corporation, a signature from local law enforcement is not required, and fingerprint cards and photographs do not need to be submitted with the transfer request. Therefore, an individual who lives in a location where the chief law enforcement officer will not sign a transfer form can still own an NFA item if he or she owns a corporation. This method has downsides, though, since it is the corporation (and not the principal) that owns the weapon. Thus, if the corporation ever dissolves, it must transfer its NFA weapons to the owners. This event would be considered a new transfer and would be subject to a new transfer tax.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f2/Nfastamp.jpg/160px-Nfastamp.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nfastamp.jpg) http://upload.wikimedia.org/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nfastamp.jpg)
US National Firearms Act Stamp, affixed to transfer forms to indicate tax paid.


The tax for privately manufacturing any NFA firearm (other than machineguns, which are generally illegal to manufacture) is $200. Transferring requires a $200 tax for all NFA firearms except AOW's, for which the transfer tax is $5 (although the manufacturing tax remains $200).
Dealers who pay a special yearly occupational tax are exempt from these taxes for transfers to or from other special occupational taxpayers (SOT's). Only a Class-II manufacturer can “make and register” a machine gun –– and that gun becomes a Post May-19th, 1986 Gun –– saleable only to police, State, local, Federal-Government, and the military. Low volume Class-II manufacturers (those with sales under $500,000.00) pay the $500.00 per year SOT tax, while high sales volume Class-II’s pay the full $1,000.00 SOT “ticket” price.
Transferable machine guns made or registered before May-19th 1986 are worth far more than their original, pre-1986 value. And items like registered “auto-sears,” “lightning-links,” trigger-packs, trunnions, and other “combination of parts” registered as machineguns before the aforementioned date are often worth nearly as much as a full registered machine gun. For instance, as of September 2008, a transferrable M16 rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle) costs approximately $15,000 to $18,000, while a transferrable "lightning-link" for the AR-15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15) can sell for $8,000 to $10,000. New manufacture M-16s sell to law enforcement and the military for around $600 to $1000.
The registration or transfer process (to an individual or corporation) takes approximately 1-3 months to complete. Additionally, the firearm can never be handled or transported by any other private individual unless the firearm's registered owner is present. Corporations which own NFA weapons can loan them to any employee of the corporation with a letter of permission on the corporate letterhead. NFA items owned by trusts may be legally possessed by any trustee (ie, if a husband and wife are both trustees, either of them may use and transport the weapon without the other present).
Upon the demand of any ATF agent, the registered owner must produce the original ATF Form with tax stamp affixed to prove the weapon is legally owned. Technically speaking, owners are not required to produce the form for any non-ATF personnel (i.e., local police officers do not have the legal right to demand to see the form).[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] However, in practice, most NFA weapon owners keep a photocopy of their paperwork with the weapon at all times, and will show it to any authority that requests it, simply to avoid harassment, detainment, or the seizure of the weapon. Many owners keep the original form in a safe place, such as a safe deposit box (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_deposit_box), to avoid damaging it, as the ATF will not replace a damaged $200 tax stamp.
In a number of situations, an NFA item may be transferred without a transfer tax. These include sales to government agencies, temporary transfers of an NFA weapon to a gunsmith for repairs, and transfer of an NFA weapon to a lawful heir after the death of its owner. A permanent transfer, even if tax-free, must be approved by the ATF. The proper form should be submitted to ATF before the transfer occurs. For example, lawful heirs must submit a Form 5 and wait for approval before taking possession of any NFA item willed to them. Temporary transfers, such as those to a gunsmith or to the original manufacturer for repair, are not subject to ATF approval since they are not legally considered transfers. The ATF does, however, recommend filing tax-free transfer paperwork on all such temporary transfers, to confer an extra layer of legal protection on both the owner and the gunsmith.

[SimpleJack]

To me it seems like you can just avoid all transportation laws and bring it your owns weapons shipments, because if the government trust you and the other allied forced do to doesn't seem like any of them would give a dam. plus if the UN got involved you could just tell them to *%&$ off because doesn't seem like they ever do anything, really i never heard of them be successful.

[California Joe]

My bad, I should have been more specific. As it says in that wiki article it ain't exactly easy anyway.

Security companies, like a lot of government contractors...are also required to hold certain security classifications depending on who they're working for.

There are actually a PSCs in here. Take a look at Argylls photo album, he's got a lot of different weapons in the pics based on which company he was working for and what the contract was.

[the.jaguar]

Yes. Counter-sniper and static security.

What are other examples of sniper rifles they have issued?

[Argyll]

Too much administration (transporting weapons in the country), just send yout iraqi middleman to black market for brand new AK (romanian mostly) for few bucks...

Back in the beginning, this was infact the norm, the blackmarket was the place to pick up all sorts of weapons...

It wasn't until the CPA started making sure that PSC's had the End user certificate to import weapons, and thus began the whole weapons arming cards issue, some companys adhered to this, others didn't, and then the Iraqi MOI got involved, and issued it's own weapons card, if you didn't have one, you were deemed to be carrying one illegally, but there was nobody out there who clould enforce this.....
Then a couple of years back, Patraeus issued an order, confiscate unregistered, unlicenced weapons, mainly down to the fact around 30,000 Glocks brought for the IP were unnacountable, of course these found their way into PSC hands for a couple of hundred bucks a pop, which is worth a months wages to him...there was a purge in the IZ not so long ago, and lots of CP/PSD teams without the proper paperwork, had their weapons confiscated, creating a nasty atmosphere between the IZ Police, who were mainly USAF types, and the Private Sector.....

There's lots of outstanding issues about weapons and where they came from in Iraq at the moment, and more so in Afghanistan, where in the past few months several companies have had their compounds raided and weapons removed bu the Afghan Interior Ministry

[Uncle Sam]

Back in day, when I first started doing this stuff...We were issued a standard rifle, but we could add or remove whatever we wanted, grips, lights, fore ends, stocks, triggers, barrels even, and no one really said anything. Now a days...We are stifled by strict enforcement. What you are issued is what you will use, with no mods...Boring really, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

But I do not recall anyone ever bringing in their own stuff, as far as weapons are concerned...

[Argyll]

I bought my own SBR Upper for a standard M4, as did many of my mates back in 2006

[Yarrick2]

My bad, I should have been more specific. As it says in that wiki article it ain't exactly easy anyway.
Not really true, the hardest part is either the waiting game for the paperwork to get processed or if you have a **** for a CLEO in your area and it won't sign off, But then again you can always go either the trust route or with a llc. I'm helping my brother get a serbu super shorty at the moment.

[Uncle Sam]

I bought my own SBR Upper for a standard M4, as did many of my mates back in 2006

I digress...I meant that no one I knew actually brought in weapons for themselves...Ordering certain things and getting them, well that was a different story.

[the.jaguar]

I digress...I meant that no one I knew actually brought in weapons for themselves...Ordering certain things and getting them, well that was a different story.

M4's upper doesn't count as weapon, does it?

[Yarrick2]

M4's upper doesn't count as weapon, does it?
Not under US law.