We are in a world war and yet we do not notice it.

[born_to_love]

Over the past few weeks reports have abounded about the
widening berth of the forces of global jihad. On Tuesday, The New York Times reported that al-Qaida linked groups are operating in Africa from the Western Sahara to the Horn of Africa. The jihadis in countries like Niger, Chad and Mali are being financed, trained and indoctrinated by religious authorities from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

The recent elections in Indonesia ended with neither major party receiving much more than one fifth of the popular vote. In Indonesia's parliamentary system this means that the small Islamic parties will be able to exert great influence over the new government which will need to bring them into the governing coalition to rule.


In Nigeria this week Muslim mobs brandishing machetes butchered some thirty Christians in the streets of the city of Kano. The panicked Christians ran for shelter in police stations as they watched their co-religionists butchered and set aflame before their eyes.



The problems in Nigeria began in 1999 after elections brought an end to military rule in the oil rich country. Today 11 of Nigeria's 36 states are governed by Sharia law. Rights of women and non-Muslims in these areas have been summarily destroyed. Nigeria's turn to jihad has been spurred on by foreign Arabs. Palestinians, Saudis, Syrians and Sudanese have all been acting as advisers to the mullahs in Nigeria and have been actively funding and training the Muslim militias that have killed thousands of Christians there over the past few years.

In the Philippines, President Gloria Arroyo has given de facto autonomy over large swathes of the country to an al-Qaida linked group, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front operating in the southern parts of the archipelago dominated by the country's Muslim minority. The MILF too is supported by the Saudis and other Arab states with money, arms and jihad indoctrination.

Both western intelligence agencies and casual observers are casting worried glances at Europe itself. With Western Europe's large and increasingly extremist Muslim minorities demanding cultural autonomy while preaching and funding and training men for jihad, many EU member states are looking more and more like Islamic countries everyday.

All of this should be taken into account when we look at the bloody toll of the Palestinian offensive in Gaza and when we observe American confusion in Iraq today. It should be taken into account because we must realize that our enemies are engaged in a world war against the non-Muslim world. When we consider our daily battles on our limited terrain we must not allow our perceptions to be distorted by that directly before us.

Yet undermine our perceptive powers we have. Although the Palestinians, like their Iranian and Hizbullah overlords have consistently stated that their aim is to destroy Israel in stages, we Israelis refuse to see the overall picture of their strategy. They execute Tali Hatuel and her daughters on the day of the Likud poll and we fail to understand the message. It is not, "Get out of Gaza, or else." It is, "Regardless of what you desire, we will push you out of Gaza as we pushed you out of Lebanon and as we will push you out of the rest of Palestine that you refer to as Israel."

But we don't see it that way. Our press, like our beleaguered and vain politicians, pushes a different story. In their story, there is no enemy, only Israel. There is no jihad, only settlers provocatively daring to live in their homes and soldiers carrying too much explosive material in their armored personnel carriers and tanks. It is the settlers who "endanger" their children and the soldiers who placed too much TNT in their APCs who are responsible for their deaths.

We do not see news analyses of Palestinian societal derangement that manifests itself in cannibalism. We do not see debates of what an Israeli defeat in Gaza means to a society bred from the cradle to the grave on global jihad and its requisite genocide of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel and beyond.

Indeed, we see no discussion of Gaza as part of a larger whole – whether that whole be the entire Land of Israel or the entire non-Muslim world. Because we limit our gaze with super telephoto lenses to see only that immediately before us, our picture of the war being waged against us is taken up almost entirely by ourselves with the enemy barely visible at the outer edges of the frame.

Rather than learning from our mistakes, over the past month or so we have seen our American allies repeat them in Iraq. There, the US has limited its gaze to itself. Can the US forces enter into sacred Shiite towns or not? Can US forces engage in house to house battles, risking civilian casualties in Fallujah or not? Can the US empower its allies and weaken its enemies in Iraq without being perceived (by itself) as imperialistic? Can the US continue its occupation of Iraq and campaign to bring freedom to this malformed Arab state when a handful of its soldiers besmirch the honor of their uniforms by abusing Iraqi enemy prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison?

The questions here are not turned to the enemy that transforms sacred cities into armed camps and hides behind civilians, rendering them either fellow terrorists or hostages. The question, why would the US send 135,000 US troops to liberate Iraq only to have them turn it over to the same UN supported Ba'athist forces they were brought to Iraq to defeat is resoundingly ignored.

The confused Bush administration is not asked why the president should seek the approval of the Arab world for America's actions or forgiveness for its failings. It is not asked this even though, as the American scholar Fuad Ajami pointed out this week in The Wall Street Journal, the Arabs preferred Saddam's butchers to the American liberators and prefer to see Iraq revert to pan-Arab fascism and tyranny to its emerging as a secular democracy.

Indeed in the recent weeks of American Israeli-style navel gazing on Iraq, we see little questioning of what US retreats in Fallujah and hesitancy in Najaf do to the forces of jihad throughout the world. There is little note paid to the fact that in the attack on foreign workers in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia and the beginning of the month, the body of one of the American victims was tied to the terrorists' vehicle and dragged through the streets of the city as the terrorists invoked the lynching of US contractors in Fallujah in late March to the crowd that formed around them.

In the US tendency towards Israeli style self-obsession, we see them like us, buying into the psychological warfare of the enemy aimed at forcing their retreat. So it is that in the barbaric butchering of Nick Berg, the American press reports as fact the terrorists' contention that Berg's beheading was retribution for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib.

Of course this is a lie. Daniel Pearl was beheaded before the US invaded Iraq. The workers in Yanbu were murdered a year after the US pulled its military forces out of Saudi Arabia. The US contractors were lynched before the Marines went into Fallujah.

When we pay attention to our enemies and see the scope of their ambitions and depth of their hatred we must come to a revolutionary conclusion. We, Israelis, Americans, and indeed all non-fascistic Muslims constitute the frontline in the war wherever we are. It was not US military deployment in Saudi Arabia that precipitated the September 11 attacks anymore than it was the Israeli presence in Lebanon or in Gaza or Judea and Samaria or Jerusalem that precipitated the Palestinian-led jihad against Israel. It is our existence that provokes our enemy.

Our enemies, the forces of global jihad, be they Palestinian or Jordanian, Saudi, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Iranian or Iraqi use all the means at their disposal to wage their war against us. From their television and radio stations and newspapers they incite for our destruction and feed us fictions of our own culpability to both strengthen their forces' will to fight us and weaken our will to defend ourselves.

In the UN, the Arab League, the Organization of the Islamic Conference and on countless other international stages they seek to criminalize us for our crime of defending our existence. In this they find accomplices among our own self-absorbed elites who are only too happy to blame the war being waged against us on ourselves.

When we limit our gaze to ourselves not only do we fail to take notice of the nature of the war, we craft national policies that harm both ourselves and our allies. In Israel, our self-obsession has brought about plan after plan all of which have weakened us and our allies in the global struggle. From the Oslo initiative to the retreat from Lebanon to Sharon's pullout plan from Gaza and parts of Samaria we have hurt ourselves and our allies.

We have hurt ourselves by weakening our ability to recognize our enemies as such seeing them rather as erstwhile peace partners. We have hurt ourselves by discrediting our own right to live unmolested as large swathes of our elites have preferred our enemies the Palestinians to our own citizens in Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

In behaving as though the Palestinian branch of the global jihad is engaging in a war over a few kilometers in Gaza, Judea and Samaria rather than playing a central role in the global jihad against non-Muslims, we are making it harder for our allies, first and foremost the Americans, to see the true nature of the war they too are fighting. If it is only Israeli settlers who are preventing peace by living in mobile homes in Judea and Samaria then perhaps it is only America in its "arrogance" that is preventing the jihadis from coming to a meeting of the minds with the West.

As the jihad spreads throughout the world, we must stop finally with our self-destructive self-absorption. The butchers in Zeitoun who kicked the remains of our soldiers like footballs on Tuesday, like the butchers in Baghdad, Karachi, Riyadh and beyond who kill with barbaric ecstasy and primordial hatred do so not because of anything we have done. They do so because they are barbarians. And if we do not wish to be destroyed, we must do everything to destroy them and nothing to give them hope for victory against us.

[Germaine]

That sucks

[WolverineBlue]

This is World War IV. World War III being of course the Cold War.

[usa320]

I agree.

The cold war should be regarded as WWIII in the big picture. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, all fronts of the third world war.

This is in effect WWIV. Just replace the nazis and commies with islamic and narco terrorists.

[Deuterium]

Keep the noise down I'm playing Playstation!!

[XASA]

I would be interested in knowing the source for this "quote". It is a bit over the top in its Islam bashing.

[usa320]

People need to realize that the war on terror isnt limited to Islamic terrorism.

Islamic Terrorists just seem to be the main enemy... but we also must deal with narco-terrorists in colombia as well as militant communists and eco-terrorists.

[Red]

Over the past few weeks reports have abounded about the
widening berth of the forces of global jihad. On Tuesday, The New York Times reported that al-Qaida linked groups are operating in Africa from the Western Sahara to the Horn of Africa. The jihadis in countries like Niger, Chad and Mali are being financed, trained and indoctrinated by religious authorities from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

The recent elections in Indonesia ended with neither major party receiving much more than one fifth of the popular vote. In Indonesia's parliamentary system this means that the small Islamic parties will be able to exert great influence over the new government which will need to bring them into the governing coalition to rule.


In Nigeria this week Muslim mobs brandishing machetes butchered some thirty Christians in the streets of the city of Kano. The panicked Christians ran for shelter in police stations as they watched their co-religionists butchered and set aflame before their eyes.



The problems in Nigeria began in 1999 after elections brought an end to military rule in the oil rich country. Today 11 of Nigeria's 36 states are governed by Sharia law. Rights of women and non-Muslims in these areas have been summarily destroyed. Nigeria's turn to jihad has been spurred on by foreign Arabs. Palestinians, Saudis, Syrians and Sudanese have all been acting as advisers to the mullahs in Nigeria and have been actively funding and training the Muslim militias that have killed thousands of Christians there over the past few years.

In the Philippines, President Gloria Arroyo has given de facto autonomy over large swathes of the country to an al-Qaida linked group, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front operating in the southern parts of the archipelago dominated by the country's Muslim minority. The MILF too is supported by the Saudis and other Arab states with money, arms and jihad indoctrination.

Both western intelligence agencies and casual observers are casting worried glances at Europe itself. With Western Europe's large and increasingly extremist Muslim minorities demanding cultural autonomy while preaching and funding and training men for jihad, many EU member states are looking more and more like Islamic countries everyday.

All of this should be taken into account when we look at the bloody toll of the Palestinian offensive in Gaza and when we observe American confusion in Iraq today. It should be taken into account because we must realize that our enemies are engaged in a world war against the non-Muslim world. When we consider our daily battles on our limited terrain we must not allow our perceptions to be distorted by that directly before us.

Yet undermine our perceptive powers we have. Although the Palestinians, like their Iranian and Hizbullah overlords have consistently stated that their aim is to destroy Israel in stages, we Israelis refuse to see the overall picture of their strategy. They execute Tali Hatuel and her daughters on the day of the Likud poll and we fail to understand the message. It is not, "Get out of Gaza, or else." It is, "Regardless of what you desire, we will push you out of Gaza as we pushed you out of Lebanon and as we will push you out of the rest of Palestine that you refer to as Israel."

But we don't see it that way. Our press, like our beleaguered and vain politicians, pushes a different story. In their story, there is no enemy, only Israel. There is no jihad, only settlers provocatively daring to live in their homes and soldiers carrying too much explosive material in their armored personnel carriers and tanks. It is the settlers who "endanger" their children and the soldiers who placed too much TNT in their APCs who are responsible for their deaths.

We do not see news analyses of Palestinian societal derangement that manifests itself in cannibalism. We do not see debates of what an Israeli defeat in Gaza means to a society bred from the cradle to the grave on global jihad and its requisite genocide of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel and beyond.

Indeed, we see no discussion of Gaza as part of a larger whole – whether that whole be the entire Land of Israel or the entire non-Muslim world. Because we limit our gaze with super telephoto lenses to see only that immediately before us, our picture of the war being waged against us is taken up almost entirely by ourselves with the enemy barely visible at the outer edges of the frame.

Rather than learning from our mistakes, over the past month or so we have seen our American allies repeat them in Iraq. There, the US has limited its gaze to itself. Can the US forces enter into sacred Shiite towns or not? Can US forces engage in house to house battles, risking civilian casualties in Fallujah or not? Can the US empower its allies and weaken its enemies in Iraq without being perceived (by itself) as imperialistic? Can the US continue its occupation of Iraq and campaign to bring freedom to this malformed Arab state when a handful of its soldiers besmirch the honor of their uniforms by abusing Iraqi enemy prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison?

The questions here are not turned to the enemy that transforms sacred cities into armed camps and hides behind civilians, rendering them either fellow terrorists or hostages. The question, why would the US send 135,000 US troops to liberate Iraq only to have them turn it over to the same UN supported Ba'athist forces they were brought to Iraq to defeat is resoundingly ignored.

The confused Bush administration is not asked why the president should seek the approval of the Arab world for America's actions or forgiveness for its failings. It is not asked this even though, as the American scholar Fuad Ajami pointed out this week in The Wall Street Journal, the Arabs preferred Saddam's butchers to the American liberators and prefer to see Iraq revert to pan-Arab fascism and tyranny to its emerging as a secular democracy.

Indeed in the recent weeks of American Israeli-style navel gazing on Iraq, we see little questioning of what US retreats in Fallujah and hesitancy in Najaf do to the forces of jihad throughout the world. There is little note paid to the fact that in the attack on foreign workers in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia and the beginning of the month, the body of one of the American victims was tied to the terrorists' vehicle and dragged through the streets of the city as the terrorists invoked the lynching of US contractors in Fallujah in late March to the crowd that formed around them.

In the US tendency towards Israeli style self-obsession, we see them like us, buying into the psychological warfare of the enemy aimed at forcing their retreat. So it is that in the barbaric butchering of Nick Berg, the American press reports as fact the terrorists' contention that Berg's beheading was retribution for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib.

Of course this is a lie. Daniel Pearl was beheaded before the US invaded Iraq. The workers in Yanbu were murdered a year after the US pulled its military forces out of Saudi Arabia. The US contractors were lynched before the Marines went into Fallujah.

When we pay attention to our enemies and see the scope of their ambitions and depth of their hatred we must come to a revolutionary conclusion. We, Israelis, Americans, and indeed all non-fascistic Muslims constitute the frontline in the war wherever we are. It was not US military deployment in Saudi Arabia that precipitated the September 11 attacks anymore than it was the Israeli presence in Lebanon or in Gaza or Judea and Samaria or Jerusalem that precipitated the Palestinian-led jihad against Israel. It is our existence that provokes our enemy.

Our enemies, the forces of global jihad, be they Palestinian or Jordanian, Saudi, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Iranian or Iraqi use all the means at their disposal to wage their war against us. From their television and radio stations and newspapers they incite for our destruction and feed us fictions of our own culpability to both strengthen their forces' will to fight us and weaken our will to defend ourselves.

In the UN, the Arab League, the Organization of the Islamic Conference and on countless other international stages they seek to criminalize us for our crime of defending our existence. In this they find accomplices among our own self-absorbed elites who are only too happy to blame the war being waged against us on ourselves.

When we limit our gaze to ourselves not only do we fail to take notice of the nature of the war, we craft national policies that harm both ourselves and our allies. In Israel, our self-obsession has brought about plan after plan all of which have weakened us and our allies in the global struggle. From the Oslo initiative to the retreat from Lebanon to Sharon's pullout plan from Gaza and parts of Samaria we have hurt ourselves and our allies.

We have hurt ourselves by weakening our ability to recognize our enemies as such seeing them rather as erstwhile peace partners. We have hurt ourselves by discrediting our own right to live unmolested as large swathes of our elites have preferred our enemies the Palestinians to our own citizens in Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

In behaving as though the Palestinian branch of the global jihad is engaging in a war over a few kilometers in Gaza, Judea and Samaria rather than playing a central role in the global jihad against non-Muslims, we are making it harder for our allies, first and foremost the Americans, to see the true nature of the war they too are fighting. If it is only Israeli settlers who are preventing peace by living in mobile homes in Judea and Samaria then perhaps it is only America in its "arrogance" that is preventing the jihadis from coming to a meeting of the minds with the West.

As the jihad spreads throughout the world, we must stop finally with our self-destructive self-absorption. The butchers in Zeitoun who kicked the remains of our soldiers like footballs on Tuesday, like the butchers in Baghdad, Karachi, Riyadh and beyond who kill with barbaric ecstasy and primordial hatred do so not because of anything we have done. They do so because they are barbarians. And if we do not wish to be destroyed, we must do everything to destroy them and nothing to give them hope for victory against us.
Sorry but i dont agree with a lot of this stuff.Where did you get this thing from?

[Secret Squirrel]

I would be interested in knowing the source for this "quote". It is a bit over the top in its Islam bashing.

Yea just a little over the top. The Christain/Muslim conflict in Nigeria was/is a tit for tat "war" over the use of farm land. Anyway, just googled it and its from http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Glick-2004-05-14.asp By CAROLINE GLICK From Jerusalem Post May 14, 2004 22:21.

[Red]

I would be interested in knowing the source for this "quote". It is a bit over the top in its Islam bashing.

Yea just a little over the top. The Christain/Muslim conflict in Nigeria was/is a tit for tat "war" over the use of farm land. Anyway, just googled it and its from http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Glick-2004-05-14.asp By CAROLINE GLICK From Jerusalem Post May 14, 2004 22:21.
Actually the Christian-Muslim conflict in Nigeria was not over farlnad,rathar that conflict has been there for a very very long time.Let me say when the Brits gave that country independence,they screwed things up a whole lot,and as a result the muslim north of Nigeria have always felt it was their god given right to rule over the country and impose their muslim way of life on all folks.

[5jumpchump]

This isn't really a world war then it is a religious war IMHO .

[XASA]

I would be interested in knowing the source for this "quote". It is a bit over the top in its Islam bashing.

Yea just a little over the top. The Christain/Muslim conflict in Nigeria was/is a tit for tat "war" over the use of farm land. Anyway, just googled it and its from http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Glick-2004-05-14.asp By CAROLINE GLICK From Jerusalem Post May 14, 2004 22:21.

Well, that explains why the writer feels the way she does. Israel has been engaged in a struggle for survival since its inception; however, that doesn't make her editorial calling for a "world war" against Islam sensible or credible. If we were in a "world war" we wouldn't need anyone to bring it to our attention. Got to give her and the Post kudos though for a propaganda piece that would have made Goebbels proud ;)

[Macs.]

There is no world war III.

Only germany can declare a world war, and afaik we didn't start a new one yet.

[OB Kenobi]

I agree.

The cold war should be regarded as WWIII in the big picture. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, all fronts of the third world war.

This is in effect WWIV. Just replace the nazis and commies with islamic and narco terrorists.

No, this is the Crusades II.

[droopy]

I agree.

The cold war should be regarded as WWIII in the big picture. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, all fronts of the third world war.

This is in effect WWIV. Just replace the nazis and commies with islamic and narco terrorists.

No, this is the Crusades II.

That`s why i love budism i mean the christianity had crucades the muslims have jihad but budhism has none of this type things AFAIK.

On the subject tell me a period when the human kind had PEACE.
And now that the cold war was over we found somethingnew.

[Kitsune]

Macs wrote:
There is no world war III.

Only germany can declare a world war, and afaik we didn't start a new one yet.


Yeah, only Germany has that power. But we have sworn to use it only for good.

[UoUo]

right now...about 10 countries in the world can bomb this world 10 times...so come on....only germmany?

[Macs.]

right now...about 10 countries in the world can bomb this world 10 times...so come on....only germmany?

But they have no experience with starting world wars.

They don't know what forms to fill out. p-)

[Tane Angle]

This is a world war, but it is not a war of religion or a crusade. The Crusades were not about religion, they were about prima genitor and the younger sons not getting much inheritance. They were about popes attempting to keep hold on the continent of Europe and using religion as a guise for making money and seizing land. They were hardly about religion, though. I would certainly hope that this is not a Crusade, as that would mean it is about the following: religion, land, and money (through oil, mostly). It is not about them, and thus is not a Crusade.

The article is just a little biased and extreme, not to mention naive and simplistic. It doesn't work to paint all terrorist groups as one, especially when they have extremely different goals, tactics, structures, and foundations. Being naive and simplistic-seeing the Middle East as a land of black and white-gets people killed. I've seen it and it's just plain unnecessary. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[Kitsune]

Come on UoUo...admit it: A World War without Germany is unthinkable.
After all, where would the challenge be?

Germany simply belongs to a World War like alcoholic beverages belong to a party...

[Secret Squirrel]

I would be interested in knowing the source for this "quote". It is a bit over the top in its Islam bashing.

Yea just a little over the top. The Christain/Muslim conflict in Nigeria was/is a tit for tat "war" over the use of farm land. Anyway, just googled it and its from http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Glick-2004-05-14.asp By CAROLINE GLICK From Jerusalem Post May 14, 2004 22:21.
Actually the Christian-Muslim conflict in Nigeria was not over farlnad,rathar that conflict has been there for a very very long time.Let me say when the Brits gave that country independence,they screwed things up a whole lot,and as a result the muslim north of Nigeria have always felt it was their god given right to rule over the country and impose their muslim way of life on all folks.

Yep, my mistake; thanks for clarifying.

[S'13]

Come on UoUo...admit it: A World War without Germany is unthinkable.
After all, where would the challenge be?

Germany simply belongs to a World War like alcoholic beverages belong to a party...

And what is even more unthinkable... A world war without Germany been defeated in the end p-)

[S'13]

The cold war should be regarded as WWIII in the big picture. Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, all fronts of the third world war.

You can also put the Arab-Israeli Wars into this list.

I don't like saying this but the Middle East was like a testing ground for Soviet and Western weapons.

Here is one excellent example from an article I posted in the history section:


In Moscow, the Bekaa Valley operation threw military men into a kind of shock. Top Soviet systems had been trounced. On a visit to Czechoslovakia in 1991, Ivry met a Czech general who had been serving in Moscow in 1982. He told Ivry that the Bekaa Valley air war made the Soviets understand that Western technology was superior to theirs, and in this Czech general's view, the blow to the Bekaa Valley SAMs was part of the cascade of events leading to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17573&sid=dc34f0e7d3844489b54c762056b7cd0a

[Danzer]

No, this is the Crusades II.

Actually the ninth but who keeps counting anyway? ;)

[SOG]

There is no world war III.

Only germany can declare a world war, and afaik we didn't start a new one yet.

can we be on your side this time? cuz like..... we wanna look cool, but not be bad.......



Keep the noise down I'm playing Playstation!!

you have been POWNED! =combination of owning and boning.

http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/sitphiles/Picture%2001.gif
well see, 1st i noticed you were looking at me. since i dont being looked at by men, i sent twelve of mah finest to go look at you in bio nuclear stealth suits.


http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/sitphiles/Picture%2002.gif
here at the deut ranch we only harvest the finest ventral sack juice for the hivemind..... whats that red dot?

http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/sitphiles/Picture%2003.gif
oh right, my mother in law sent home some bun cakes which of course i let further bake in a radium chamber forcefully charging tempermental thermal nuclear rods which were then placed in stealth slung orbital atmosphere launched missle tube in which all twelve are currently being directed through the atmosphere at...... oh, thats the red dot. OF DOOM!

http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/sitphiles/Picture%2004.gif
thats some explosion of sorts..... oh yeah, the missles and the dot thingy. did you just refinance?

http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/sitphiles/Picture%2005.gif
that wasnt the missles...... i couldnt resist one of the bun cakes..... am now a living plutonioum rod squeeze boy.

good day and DOOOM!!!!

[OB Kenobi]

I would certainly hope that this is not a Crusade, as that would mean it is about the following: religion, land, and money (through oil, mostly). It is not about them, and thus is not a Crusade.

It's not about religion, land, and money?! Then what is it about?

Muslims vs. Zionists & Republicans. (religion, land)
Oil, contracts, and taxes. (money)

Then there is the political factor. Replace the Pope's ambitions over Europe with the Republicans' ambitions and you have pretty much the same thing going on again. The Republican party seems intent on defining morality (The Judeo-Christian interpretation) to the entire planet, not because they honestly believe in any of it, but because, like the Pope, they are using the terror as an excuse to gain power. Through the Crusades the Pope had power over all Europe (except when Germany revolted), through the "war on terror" Bu$h has an excuse to get away with just about anything (except Germany, France & Russia revolted).

[SOG]

It's not about religion, land, and money?! Then what is it about?

Muslims vs. Zionists & Republicans. (religion, land)
Oil, contracts, and taxes. (money)

Then there is the political factor. Replace the Pope's ambitions over Europe with the Republicans' ambitions and you have pretty much the same thing going on again. The Republican party seems intent on defining morality (The Judeo-Christian interpretation) to the entire planet,

so a few republicans are religious (im sure no democrats are) and that defines americas ambition as a holy war? oh no, bush mentioned god and evil in the same sentence....... defining morality? because we are converting and preaching to the masses with what? what morality? corruption money and politics? i have santa claus in my christmas decorations, does that mean i believe in him? oh so basing religous fervor off a simple american tradition is cause to believe the US is leading a reverse "jihad" to.......

how bout muslims extremism and thier religious and political crusade coupled with lack of technology and being led in by stories of evil america direct from the dark ages? because i know clerics and extremists only feed thier people the top truth. no, cant mention that. jihad, breed, spread across the world, piss off countries across the entire world, show the world how you lead from the front, terror, executions, great leadership over the locals, cant manage your own backyard.


not because they honestly believe in any of it, but because, like the Pope, they are using the terror as an excuse to gain power.

terror on who? the american public isnt afraid. so we have a terrorist attack every ten years or so that the media jaws on about, scary! oh i see, were linking suedo religion bable power fighting to everything the USa does so we get our way..... i get it.

what excuse? wmd? you mean the excuse all major powers of the UN put through in 1991 to force iraq into unfair santions killing hundreds of thousands? the wmd excuse 10 years before bush followed it up? but this is bush's fault for penning a false excuse already in effect and killing how many iraqis and actually freeing them from the sanctions and rehauling thier facilities? ah right, hes a bad man for putting a stop to the UN oil feeding and that program started under what administration? curious? or stopping the no fly, no ship, mass sanctions starving blockade of coalition troops around the country?


Through the Crusades the Pope had power over all Europe (except when Germany revolted), through the "war on terror" Bu$h has an excuse to get away with just about anything (except Germany, France & Russia revolted).

revolted? well when you screw over your business partners in crime in the UN id say it was more of a hostile business take over. resist rebel revolt! so noble!

the US cant win in the minds of those who hate it? '"we ignored intelligence that the germans were killing jews in ww2 and since fdr being a 33rd degree masonai is spiritually opposed to gods people he chose to prolonge US involvment until america was attacked directly""...... cmon, whats next? any more zionist and muslim extreme'ist views i should know of? was the US pining terror and religion in ww2 korea vietnam cold war?

[WolverineBlue]

OB Kenobi -- any coincidence that you joined on May Day?

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

There is a crusade for oil, and there's a religious war, but it's not aimed at all christians yet mostly against USA it's allies, Israel and Russia.
Then we have the various guerillas etc that recently was declared terrorists.


If this would be the third or fourth ww, wouldn't that make one of Nostradamus prophecies atleast partially true?
The end of the world may be near.... p-)
And bytw Germany didn't start the first world war, it was Austria-Hungary.

[Bombtrack]

In the Philippines, President Gloria Arroyo has given de facto autonomy over large swathes of the country to an al-Qaida linked group, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front operating in the southern parts of the archipelago dominated by the country's Muslim minority. The MILF too is supported by the Saudis and other Arab states with money, arms and jihad indoctrination.

Oh those wacky extremists!

[Mongrel]

"And bytw Germany didn't start the first world war, it was Austria-Hungary."

Not to nit pick but, Wasn't it Serbian nationalists..ie members of "the Black hand" that set off the chain of events leading to WW1?

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/blk-hand.html

Cheers!
M.

[MARINO]

The real enemy is Saudi Arabia and Iran.

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

"And bytw Germany didn't start the first world war, it was Austria-Hungary."

Not to nit pick but, Wasn't it Serbian nationalists..ie members of "the Black hand" that set off the chain of events leading to WW1?

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/comment/blk-hand.html

Cheers!
M.
It depends on how you look at it, Austria-Hungary decided to invade Serbia as revenge for the murder on the their prince, but the initial spark was the murder commited by the Serbian nationalists.

[RavenW]

This is a world war, but it is not a war of religion or a crusade. The Crusades were not about religion, they were about prima genitor and the younger sons not getting much inheritance. They were about popes attempting to keep hold on the continent of Europe and using religion as a guise for making money and seizing land.


First sane post about Crusades, I read in months...

Nice to know that someone actually studied history.

[Tane Angle]

Eh, they made me. p-) Thanks, bud.

[Secret Squirrel]

This is a world war, but it is not a war of religion or a crusade. The Crusades were not about religion, they were about prima genitor and the younger sons not getting much inheritance. They were about popes attempting to keep hold on the continent of Europe and using religion as a guise for making money and seizing land.


First sane post about Crusades, I read in months...

Nice to know that someone actually studied history.

Well that depends on which crusades you're refering to. But to add some more historical conclusions, in part, the crusades were also defensive (ie. conquests by Muslims from the 8th century to the 11th which garnered them much of the old Christain world). They simply werent originally the creations of ambitious popes to make money (the crusades were notorious for a few adding to their wealth with the majority returning with nothing). Theres a ton of medieval charters by participants concerning the holiness of a crusade (ie. forgiveness for sins, the great pilgrimage..etc). As well, they weret always men without an inheritence. Crusading wasnt a cheap couple of bucks but rather it consumed a lot of wealth. But as you know there were many crusades, and they were not all alike (not really counting the fourth crusade with attacked Constantinople and I guess you cant really count the children's crusade either). There were religious elements to some of them, but its extremely hard to make generalized conclusions regarding the entire crusading force and what it meant to the various figures and people who partook in them (ie. I doubt the templars were really out for just wealth or because they were bored).

[RavenW]

This is a world war, but it is not a war of religion or a crusade. The Crusades were not about religion, they were about prima genitor and the younger sons not getting much inheritance. They were about popes attempting to keep hold on the continent of Europe and using religion as a guise for making money and seizing land.


First sane post about Crusades, I read in months...

Nice to know that someone actually studied history.

Well that depends on which crusades you're refering to.

The first one.

Not the fourth that was pretty "lame" crusade anyway.
I mean taking a Christian city and pillaging it for bussinessmen.

by the way, man, what do you think of my post "flip-flops of History"?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=310013&highlight=#310013

do you at least agree with some of the ideas?

[RavenW]

But as you know there were many crusades, and they were not all alike (not really counting the fourth crusade with attacked Constantinople and I guess you cant really count the children's crusade either).


exactly!

I think that it is so wrong to compare modern war in Iraq with medieval crusades.

[Mongrel]

There was a more modern Crusade..one where Britain tried to make what they call "a New Jerusalem"...see Balifor Accord, and what some think is the root of the current problems in the middle east. :slap:

I have an idea...Stop using their Oil, and they will have to go back to growing Dates and selling Camels...Saudi/Iran problem solved.

Without Oil the region is just a big CatBox.

[vryhpyammoadded]

Then there is the political factor. Replace the Pope's ambitions over Europe with the Republicans' ambitions and you have pretty much the same thing going on again. The Republican party seems intent on defining morality (The Judeo-Christian interpretation) to the entire planet, not because they honestly believe in any of it, but because, like the Pope, they are using the terror as an excuse to gain power. Through the Crusades the Pope had power over all Europe (except when Germany revolted), through the "war on terror" Bu$h has an excuse to get away with just about anything (except Germany, France & Russia revolted).

LOL, it’s oh so much simpler and more complex than that.
On the simple side, it’s about being selfish and anyone be he Republican or Democrat, Zionist or Islamofascist, terrorist or freedom fighter can wear that badge.
On the complex side, see above…

There are a lot of selfish players involved in this mess and all are good at spreading lies and this is far from being anything like the Crusades accepting that a war is being fought over the same dam sand.

[OB Kenobi]

If this would be the third or fourth ww, wouldn't that make one of Nostradamus prophecies atleast partially true?
The end of the world may be near.... p-)
And bytw Germany didn't start the first world war, it was Austria-Hungary.

Nostradamus was a con artist.

[OB Kenobi]

But as you know there were many crusades, and they were not all alike (not really counting the fourth crusade with attacked Constantinople and I guess you cant really count the children's crusade either).


exactly!

I think that it is so wrong to compare modern war in Iraq with medieval crusades.

Ok, you're right, maybe it's not the Crusades. Maybe it's Vietnam. It's none of those things exactly, but it has its roots into something that's been going on since the Crusades, and it is centered around Israel, religion, and $$$ (oil & taxes).

But one thing is sure, it's no WW4. There's no "world" involved in this war. It's between Islamic crooks vs. American and British crooks, it's not even between entire nations. That's why I said Christian Republicans, not Americans, half of America literally doesn't support this war. I also think it has more to do with the remnants of British Colonialism than anything the US has done.

British Colonialism created Iraq, Israelastine, pioneered many of the oil fields, divided the middle-east into artificial states, installed unpopular puppet governments that were later overthrown by fundamentalists. That's where much of this blowback is coming from. The rest was spurred on by America's Mujahedeen operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

[Midav]

But as you know there were many crusades, and they were not all alike (not really counting the fourth crusade with attacked Constantinople and I guess you cant really count the children's crusade either).


exactly!

I think that it is so wrong to compare modern war in Iraq with medieval crusades.

Ok, you're right, maybe it's not the Crusades. Maybe it's Vietnam. It's none of those things exactly, but it has its roots into something that's been going on since the Crusades, and it is centered around Israel, religion, and $$$ (oil & taxes).

But one thing is sure, it's no WW4. There's no "world" involved in this war. It's between Islamic crooks vs. American and British crooks, it's not even between entire nations. That's why I said Christian Republicans, not Americans, half of America literally doesn't support this war. I also think it has more to do with the remnants of British Colonialism than anything the US has done.

British Colonialism created Iraq, Israelastine, pioneered many of the oil fields, divided the middle-east into artificial states, installed unpopular puppet governments that were later overthrown by fundamentalists. That's where much of this blowback is coming from. The rest was spurred on by America's Mujahedeen operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

One opinion of many.

Thank you for taking the time to share yours.

It's appreciated ;)

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

If this would be the third or fourth ww, wouldn't that make one of Nostradamus prophecies atleast partially true?
The end of the world may be near.... p-)
And bytw Germany didn't start the first world war, it was Austria-Hungary.

Nostradamus was a con artist.
No, the milf guerilla is the last piece of the puzzle, a mighty army will rise from the land of the great khan.

We better prepare are selves....

[Secret Squirrel]

If this would be the third or fourth ww, wouldn't that make one of Nostradamus prophecies atleast partially true?
The end of the world may be near.... p-)
And bytw Germany didn't start the first world war, it was Austria-Hungary.

Nostradamus was a con artist.

Not that I really buy into Nostradamus, but there are some interesting, if not just for a brain workout interpretations surrounding the third Anti-Christ. Take it for what you will...

The first of his anti-christs was Napoleon, named Pau Nay Oloron ("Napoleon Roy" = Napoleon King), and the second as Hister (Hitler, born incidentally on the river Hister). The third one he named "Mabus":

Century II quatrain 62

Mabus will soon die and there will come
A dreadful destruction of people and animals,
Suddenly vengeance will be revealed,
A hundred hands when the comet will pass.

Century VI quatrain 33

His hand finally through the bloody ALUS,
He will be unable to protect himself by sea,
Between two rivers he will fear the military hand,
The black and angry one will make him repent of it.

In Erika Cheethams book The Prophecies of Nostradamus on page 261she explains that the name of the third antichrist is tied up in these two quatrains. She entitles this section, "Name of the Third Antichrist?" She then goes on to say...

"ALUS is another unsolved mystery. I wonder if this connects with the fearsome Mabus of II. 62?"

ALUS=ALlied US forces; i.e. the countries that assisted the US in the Gulf War, and Mabus is Saddam Hussein. When we hold this name Mabus up to the mirror we get sudaM. Mabus = sudaM. Sudam is Saddam Hussein. It is no longer a mystery and yes indeed they are connected! So we find that when Saddam Hussein dies we will see a dreadful destruction. The comet referred to is the comet Lee, which was made visible during the solar eclipse that passed over the Holy Land in August of 1999. It was at this time that we would know who this antichrist was. Now, "His " in C6 Q 33 is Saddam Hussein (Mabus) as "he will be unable to protect himself by sea " This is because Kuwait blocks his entry to the sea. The "two rivers" that he is between are the Tigris and the Euphrates, which flow right through Baghdad, Iraq. General Schwarzkopf is the "black and angry one" as his name means black head as it is translated from the German. He was the commander during the Gulf war who made Saddam repent because of the devastating effects of the sanctions imposed upon Iraq following the war. Finally, Cheetham says,

"There is a repetition of the French word ‘MAIN’ in connection with both quatrains. It may be an approximation of the name of the third Antichrist tying up with the cryptic quatrain (II. 28) where Nostradamus seems to be trying to spell the letters of his name."

Cheetham knows that ‘MAIN’ is the name of the third Antichrist. When we turn to quatrain II.28 She say Nostradamus gives the syllables han and da being in the spelling of the name of the third Antichrist. Syllable Han with syllable Da is Handa, which is plural for Hands (arch Ger.) The French word main is Hands. "Hands" is the name of the Third Anti-Christ! Nostradamus gives the exact name of the Antichrist, "HANDS", three times!

Who are Hands and why is Hands the Third antichrist?

Self-appointed Nostradamus expert, John Hogue from Seattle, in his many books gives a list of possible persons who could be the person the Antichrist could be going against. He names Abdu’l Baha as a possible person. Nostradamus is clear this person must be opposed to the BRANCHES (C1 Q2.) Well, Abdu’l Baha was the son of the Second Coming of Christ, Baha’u’llah, and was called the Most Great Branch. This Christ lineage of David continued through him, symbolized by a rod of wood. This lineage which continued through him was called the BRANCHES-Persian Aghsan. These Hands opposed the Branches (Aghsan.) This Branch (rod of wood, Aghsan) was to be the executive of Baha’u’llahs Universal House of Justice. The legislative body symbolized by a rod of Iron, which in conjunction with the rod of wood makes a branch of pure gold, which is the medicine for this sick world. In Abdu’l Baha’s Charter for this UHJ he says,

"The legislative body must reinforce the executive, the executive must aid and assist the legislative body so that through the close union and harmony of these two forces, the foundation of fairness and justice may become firm and strong, that all the regions of the world may become even as Paradise itself. (`Abdu'l-Baha: Will and Testament, Page: 15)"

The Hands opposed this charter and threw out the executive branch thereby opposing the Branches and breaking the Covenant.

Shoghi Effendi, Aghsan Branch, Grandson of Abdu’l Baha, worked diligently to set up an International Baha’i Council with a descendant of David as president making a branch of pure gold. But he had an untimely death. On Nov 4, 1957 Shoghi Effendi, in the middle of a ten-year plan to establish this IBC, was killed. The events surrounding his death are very suspicious. Did the Hands Murder Shoghi Effendi? In the Charter for this UHJ the role of these 27 Hands was to protect Shoghi Effendi and when he died, the Hands power died with him. But seizing the opportunity in the dismay that followed, they grabbed the International Baha’i office in the East on Mt. Carmel and the Baha’i office in the UN building in the West. These Hands knew Baha’u’llah was the Second Coming of Christ and opposed him. They knew this executive must be a descendant of David, Aghsan, and threw it out and opposed it. Antichrist #3!

And if I recall correctly, before of some language rules, the name can also be arranged to spell a name that points OBL as the anti-christ. *shrugs* either way, take it for what you will.

[Alphabet76]

There is no world war III.

Only germany can declare a world war, and afaik we didn't start a new one yet.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/smiles/icon_rofl.gif I thought this was the best one. But then:


Yeah, only Germany has that power. But we have sworn to use it only for good.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif was even better. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/smiles/icon_rofl.gif http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/images/smiles/icon_rofl.gif

[OB Kenobi]

Not that I really buy into Nostradamus, but there are some interesting, if not just for a brain workout interpretations surrounding the third Anti-Christ.

Here he is now:

http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/sartrejp/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/pope_bush.jpg

The problem with Nostradamus' predictions is that they are extremely vague, and the English translation is even more open to interpretation. Some predictions have also been wrong, such as that "king of the Mongols" one. Neither Saddam, subaM, or Bin Laden have any relation to the Mongols.

Then there is the influence of hindsight. It's very easy to see all sorts of patterns and hidden meanings in things that have none at all. The funny thing is, people feel more comfortable believing in their own impending doom (according to Nostradamus and religion) rather than believing in an uncertain, but possibly better future.

More info about Nostradamus' scams:

http://people.howstuffworks.com/nostradamus5.htm

[Mongrel]

Yah it seems like people use Nostradamus like a cold reading method but with history...then the same can be said about many religious text also.

http://www.randi.org/library/coldreading/

No wait I'm getting something...Hitler...no wait ...Stalin... no must be...
Keep changing the frame of refrence around and anything can apply.

Next we will be looking into Saddams, and Bin Ladens horoscope. rofl

Canadian disclamier: This post in no way was intended to offend those that hold ancient, and medeival superstions as a belief system. No prophets or Kabbalists where harmed in the making of this post. rofl