Ex-Bush aides say he never recovered from Katrina

[annihilation]

Why dont they have the balls to say this when things are happening and not at the end when its all over.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bush_advisers_speak_out

WASHINGTON – Hurricane Katrina not only pulverized the Gulf Coast in 2005, it knocked the bully pulpit out from under President George W. Bush, according to two former advisers who spoke candidly about the political impact of the government's poor handling of the natural disaster.
"Katrina to me was the tipping point," said Matthew Dowd, Bush's pollster and chief strategist for the 2004 presidential campaign. "The president broke his bond with the public. Once that bond was broken, he no longer had the capacity to talk to the American public. State of the Union addresses? It didn't matter. Legislative initiatives? It didn't matter. P.R.? It didn't matter. Travel? It didn't matter."
Dan Bartlett, former White House communications director and later counselor to the president, said: "Politically, it was the final nail in the coffin."
Their comments are a part of an oral history of the Bush White House that Vanity Fair magazine compiled for its February issue, which hits newsstands in New York and Los Angeles on Wednesday, and nationally on Jan. 6. Vanity Fair published comments by current and former government officials, foreign ministers, campaign strategists and numerous others on topics that included Iraq, the anthrax attacks, the economy and immigration.
Lawrence Wilkerson, top aide and later chief of staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, said that as a new president, Bush was like Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee whom critics said lacked knowledge about foreign affairs. When Bush first came into office, he was surrounded by experienced advisers like Vice President **** Cheney and Powell, who Wilkerson said ended up playing damage control for the president.
"It allowed everybody to believe that this Sarah Palin-like president — because, let's face it, that's what he was — was going to be protected by this national-security elite, tested in the cauldrons of fire," Wilkerson said, adding that he considered Cheney probably the "most astute, bureaucratic entrepreneur" he'd ever met.
"He became vice president well before George Bush picked him," Wilkerson said of Cheney. "And he began to manipulate things from that point on, knowing that he was going to be able to convince this guy to pick him, knowing that he was then going to be able to wade into the vacuums that existed around George Bush — personality vacuum, character vacuum, details vacuum, experience vacuum."
On other topics, David Kuo, who served as deputy director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, disputed the idea that the Bush White House was dominated by religious conservatives and catered to the needs of a religious right voting bloc.
"The reality in the White House is — if you look at the most senior staff — you're seeing people who aren't personally religious and have no particular affection for people who are religious-right leaders," Kuo said.
"In the political affairs shop in particular, you saw a lot of people who just rolled their eyes at ... basically every religious-right leader that was out there, because they just found them annoying and insufferable. These guys were pains in the butt who had to be accommodated."

[gaijinsamurai]

Does this mean Brownie wasn't doing "a helluva job" afterall?

[Createdeemcee]

Anyone with a heart or mind knew katrina was totally wrong. While it was occuring.

[helomech]

Don'tcha mean 'chocolate'?

p-)

[Euroamerican]

All those Democrats who failed their own state and people, are they all broken up about the fiasco still? I doubt it.. They're probably letting the good times roll.....

[Createdeemcee]

All those Democrats who failed their own state and people, are they all broken up about the fiasco still? I doubt it.. They're probably letting the good times roll.....


And their Republican Commander in chief that watched thousands in peril, and did nothing to pick the torch up from the failing state govt.This is what iced the dem victory , well one of the bazillion reasons.

[deagle]

he shoulda toughened up, and found some way to fix that mess.

[el borracho]

The average republican may have had doubts, but there were still plenty of close-minded "heil Bush!" supporters who's opinion of the president did not waiver during Katrina. Instead they blamed the victims for not having the means to leave. I remember that happening in public, and on this site as well.

[Createdeemcee]

The average republican may have had doubts, but there were still plenty of close-minded "heil Bush!" supporters who's opinion of the president did not waiver during Katrina. Instead they blamed the victims for not having the means to leave. I remember that happening in public, and on this site as well.


O yes he has/had his Click with thoughts just as cloudy as his. Funny you say that, but thats the excuse they will always use for katrina. "They were warned" Tell that to 100,000 people who dont have a cousin jane in texas, or other near by states to were they could flee. They (repubs) thought that they were tyo causually walk away to find a hole to survive. What a peachy world they lived in.

[Jobu]

The average republican may have had doubts, but there were still plenty of close-minded "heil Bush!" supporters who's opinion of the president did not waiver during Katrina. Instead they blamed the victims for not having the means to leave. I remember that happening in public, and on this site as well.



Many had the means to leave but chose not to, then decided to blame Bush for not immediately saving them from their own bad decisions.

They did not blame themselves for being stupid. They did not blame their city's mayor for not making use of the vast amounts of transportation equipment available for the mandatory evacuation.. They did not blame their state's governor for failing to put the state's guard to good use. Nope, it was Bush's fault.

This is the mentality of someone who spends his life dependent on the federal government.

[Ordie]

This only confirms my assumptions that Karina was a watershed moment for the presidency.

[vryhpyammoadded]

I agree Bush played his part in the Katrina travesty but my faith wasn’t broken by the executive alone by a long shot differing from so many morons out there. I blame the whole system (both political party’s and their masters on all levels) of which Bush is actually, in my opinion, only a little but just as guilty pawn of. And just who elects these corrupt yum yums into office???

I guarantee you that if a true leader were to enter the executive and begin a proper cleanup of the government he’d not hit the ground fast enough to dodge all the lawsuits, bullets and shoes. If he survived, he’d be impeached, imprisoned and hung with electric cord upside down from a street light shattered, riddled with bullet holes, dead, covered in piss, sh*t, spit and semen and all because the people would hate him for holding them accountable for there corruption.

I have plenty of condemnation to pass out to everyone and little pity including the morons, I’m sorry “victims”, who refused to leave. Hell, I’ve only visited New Orleans three times for a total of maybe a week and one of the first things I was warned about was to bug out should a hurricane roll in because the local government was pilfering the levee funds to line its and friends pockets. That was over two decades ago.

Those who couldn’t leave because the local government experienced corrupt vapor lock of the brain get my sympathy but they still shouldn’t have trusted the local, state or federal government for that matter what with the corrupt sh*t going on in that cesspit excuse for a city.

Jobu nailed the concept with his last sentence

This is the mentality of someone who spends his life dependent on the federal government.

I considered it a major turning point in US history and a indicator of terribly unstable times ahead.

[el borracho]

This is the mentality of someone who spends his life dependent on the federal government.

I agree with that, as I did when it was brought up three years ago in the original discussion. The article wants to paint Katrina as the tipping point for Bush, I was pointing out that those that were going to make him a scapegoat would have done so anyway, as well as those who were quick to absolve him from any blame. This also proves that Katrina was NOT the beginning for the end of Bush, since most Americans were still split on how effectively he handled the situation. The same "anti" crowd said he didn't do enough, the "pro" crowd asserted that he didn't have to do anything.

I don't think there was a single incident that can be pointed at as Bush's downfall. At the start of 2006 it seemed that the country was still split firmly in two camps, but by the end of the year the disillusionment was spreading, which resulted in sweeping changes in government. By then he couldn't win as the conservatives were angry that the "liberal media" caused Republicans to bend in their policy stance, whereas the liberals and most middle-of-the-road types were angry that action (sacking Rove and Rumsfeld, a new logical plan for Iraq) was not done sooner. He was definitely a lame duck by 2007, as evident by all the election fervor, which started almost a year earlier than usual. It was obvious that by then everyone was waiting for him to go.

[GrinchWSLG]

Every time I hear about the Katrina "travesty" I can feel my rage boiling. Having lived in Florida for only 5 years and having weathered and fled my fair share of hurricanes, myself and everyone I knew in Florida had little compassion for the Katrina "victims". They complain about lack of warning and blame the federal government for their despair. What part of category 5 hurricane heading for your sea level city is so hard to comprehend? I didn't have any nearby families to run to but I still managed on my own with what little money I had. Lets not forget it was the local and state government's duty to protect and lead their citizens in times of a natural disaster, and is the federal government's job to help out when it is apparent local governments cannot achieve results. The failure of local and state governments with such disgusting speed should not, can not, be blamed on the federal government. Yet it was the local government leaders who were reelected while the president, who can not control the weather, did not want to send armed forces into our own cities for obvious and legal reasons, takes all the blame.

What really pisses me off though is the way the "victims" make their case by whining and moaning. What the hell America? Where's your pride? Where's that pick yourself up and get things back to normal can do attitude? If lazy ass Floridians can manage it, I'm sure the rest of the country can. But no, sit on your butts and blame the government. Blame one man who DOES NOT shoulder the entire responsibility of this nation. That responsibility lies with the people. So shut up, stop driving this country into the dirt and do something useful for once.

/rant

[2Sheds_Jackson]

The average republican may have had doubts, but there were still plenty of close-minded "heil Bush!" supporters who's opinion of the president did not waiver during Katrina. Instead they blamed the victims for not having the means to leave. I remember that happening in public, and on this site as well.

Oh yeah, I remember it too, because it's the truth. It wasn't, isn't and never has been the federal government's job to evacuate people prior to a weather "emergency" that was warned about days in advance. Easily led people who have watched too many giant monster movies think the feds swoop in and save the day with helicopters, and giant tanks that shoot lasers and everything is ok. Simply not reality. Each individual has a responsibility to take care of themselves. Failing that, the next wrung on the responsibility ladder is local...the city/the chocolate Mayor and his amazing aquatic schoolbusses. The feds = my money. They are the absolute last resort, and their official role is cleanup, after the fact.

The concept that Bush was politically dead after Katrina is a stunning indictment of the level of understanding that many of our countrymen muddle through their days with. But as always, the voter eventually gets what they ask for. This cradle-to-grave government-is-the-answer is how we got to trillion dollar bailouts and the political elite now running both our government and private industry.

[LineDoggie]

I sat at Camp Stryker when Katrina happened next to the guys of the Louisiana National Guards 256th Brigade watching the news. Many of them lost homes and were being priorotized for return to the USA. Funny thing was no one was blaiming the President.

To a man I all saw blamed the Governor, and Nagin. I was told numerous accounts of how corrupt La. Government was, how safety improvements were budgeted and then the funds siphoned off for something else. Many said the looters should be shot on sight. One Sergeant who was My FO for a Year Lost his house in New Orleans, his hatred was towards Nagin, not Bush.

[BK9824]

This is the mentality of someone who spends his life dependent on the federal government.

Spoken for truth!

My father taught me a very important lesson early in life: If you do things for people, they will let you.

[Ordie]

For the GOP at least, Katrina was the "albatross" at its convention in Minnesota. So much so that it was scaled down.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

As much as I dislike Bush, Katrina was not his baby.

[Walter Sobchak]

O yes he has/had his Click with thoughts just as cloudy as his. Funny you say that, but thats the excuse they will always use for katrina. "They were warned" Tell that to 100,000 people who dont have a cousin jane in texas, or other near by states to were they could flee. They (repubs) thought that they were tyo causually walk away to find a hole to survive. What a peachy world they lived in.

If you've ever been though a hurricane, you'll know that many, many people sit on their hands hoping that it misses them until the last minute. It's human nature. I just went through Ike, and it was the same then. Only when it turned north towards Sabine Pass did folks get serious about leaving or hunkering down.

Since hurricanes don't go where the forecasters predict,there is the danger of people not evacuating when they have evacuated several times, only to have to hurricane miss them. The logistics of a complete evacuation are enormous; when Galveston was evacuated for Ike, hospital patients were sent as far away as Amarillo! So really, officials are damned either way.

Let's talk about Houston and New Orleans.

In Katrina, Governor Blanco was called by the Feds and offered help, but she had to "meet with her people" to see if they could coordinate it. Nagin was too busy sticking his grill in the TV cameras and letting everyone know he was the man to do anything. If you'll remember the 500 flooded school busses that could have been used to evacuate, but no one would make a decision. In short, no one in New Orleans had a plan.

Also, New Orleans had one of the highest percentage of poor people on public assistance in the country. The Iberville, Desire, Florida, St. Bernard and Lafitte projects are some of the largest and worst in the country. These people generally are at the mercy of public services to evacuate. Many had no where to go. The state of Louisiana had no shelter or evacuation plan. Let that sink in: the city is below sea level, these projects have been here for decades and they had no plan to care for these people.

Houston inherited thousands of Katrina evacuees (so many that Ray Nagin bought campaign ads here!). We had a Democratic mayor and a Republican county judge (a very powerful position in Texas). They worked together to take care of these people. Yes, our crime rate skyrocketed because the state of Louisiana lost track of all its New Orleans parolees and *** offenders. We also got thousands of people who realized how bad New Orleans and Louisiana failed them and have stayed here; many have brought their businesses with them.

Working around a number of these folks, I got an earful about how badly prepared Louisiana and New Orleans was. The Department of Public Works, who care for and improve the levees, is called the Department of Public Perks, because of the lavish spending of its directors on things not related to flood control (they owned a marina and several private planes).

If you'll recall that hurricane Rita threatened the upper Texas coast just after Katrina. It was also a cat-5 and mercifully missed Houston. However, though there was some chaos with evacuation, generally the community was pretty well prepared. Galveston, right by the bay, was even better prepared. Post-Rita, however, there was even more planning based on what we learned.

When Ike hit, we were as prepared as we can be. For days leading up to it, when it looked like the storm would come in more towards Corpus Christi, the cities of Houston, Galveston, Baytown and Texas City were still working together and preparing. When the storm did turn more northward, mandatory evacuations by zip code were started well in advance of the storm.

The state and Federal governments were ready and deployed according to a pre-coordinated plan, just waiting for the storm to pass. There were even utility crews from around the country, ready to deploy when the winds died down. While Ike was only a cat-2, it had a bad storm surge and did much more damage than a normal storm that size.

The Federal government should not be in the business of being first responders. They have to be partners with local and state governments, who must have a plan to set up the framework within which the Federal response must work. I was told stories by Katrina evacuees about pallets of MREs and bottled water looted by gangs in New Orleans and traded for drugs and looted goods. All because there was no distribution plan; the stuff was trucked into the city and dropped off with city workers and others. Remember, the cops were looting and some disappeared for weeks.

Lay the blame for Katrina where it needs to go: New Orleans and Louisiana politicians; the New Orleans electorate (hell, you're below sea level, and you only have cat-3 and cat-4 levees?) who keep voting them in; the Federal government (no one ever considered the uniqueness of New Orleans' circumstances).

To say it was "all Bush's fault" is idiotic. Of course, that's the official DNC line... so I rest my case on the last point!

[bigvig]

George..Bush............hates black people.

[ibstolidude]

The average republican may have had doubts, but there were still plenty of close-minded "heil Bush!" supporters who's opinion of the president did not waiver during Katrina. Instead they blamed the victims for not having the means to leave. I remember that happening in public, and on this site as well.
No, but I do blame them for returning (the bulk of) their failed state & local leadership to power - where the highest level of failures happened.

[timetraveller]

Before the Full Power of Hurricane katrina Hit .. How many times in the past has the City been subjected to Storms ?

Has there been flooding in the past ? ,

[INAT]

George..Bush............hates black people.


Thank you Kanye .

[gaijinsamurai]

Many had the means to leave but chose not to, then decided to blame Bush for not immediately saving them from their own bad decisions.

They did not blame themselves for being stupid. They did not blame their city's mayor for not making use of the vast amounts of transportation equipment available for the mandatory evacuation.. They did not blame their state's governor for failing to put the state's guard to good use. Nope, it was Bush's fault.

This is the mentality of someone who spends his life dependent on the federal government.

I can hardly believe I'm finding myself agreeing with Jobu, but he's right.

Still, FEMA showed a high level of incompetence......

[Hilbert]

Each individual has a responsibility to take care of themselves. Failing that, the next wrung on the responsibility ladder is local...the city/the chocolate Mayor and his amazing aquatic schoolbusses. The feds = my money. They are the absolute last resort, and their official role is cleanup, after the fact.

Not trying to turn this into a Gun Debate Topic but as a New Orleanian and in response to your "responsibility to take care of themselves" note (which I completely agree with), it's admirable how Nagin and the Chief of Police decided that Katrina's aftermath was a perfect time to start confiscating our firearms... when we needed them the most for looters and other scum. One of my not so lucky freinds had the pleasure of getting his firearms taken away. Police simply rolled in searched for weapons, took what they found, then rolled on out of the neighborhood.

To me Katrina exposed a collossal level of stupidity on all levels of Government, especially with the beauracracy at the state and local levels. Nagin is an idiot and it baffles my mind how he managed to get reelected here.

As Sobchak said, planning was an utter failure. I know the old saying "No plan ever survives contact, etc." but Katrina completely ruined whatever "plans" were laid out, if any. FEMA and the local authorities sat there with food and bottled water that got stockpiled down over at the Saints Training Grounds for days yet never distributed it, busses were massed and never used, Police priorities were completely fvcked to hell, the whole thing was a mess. And as usual, we paid the price for their fvck ups while they sat in relative comfort.

I'm just happy we have Jindal now and not Blank-O

My two cents,
Hilde

P.S.

In regards to Bush, I've never much cared for the guys policies but I'm convinced that somewhere in the 2nd Term he had a stroke or something, because he's just gotten weird(er), that was before Katrina, now he (in my opinion) has gone crazy.

[Hilbert]

I can hardly believe I'm finding myself agreeing with Jobu, but he's right.

Still, FEMA showed a high level of incompetence......

Very true.

[GrinchWSLG]

I can hardly believe I'm finding myself agreeing with Jobu, but he's right.

Still, FEMA showed a high level of incompetence......

FEMA is by far the worst government agency ever formed. We had a town nearly wiped out by a tornado last year and when they asked for assistance from FEMA were flat out denied. What the hell is your purpose if not to provide emergency assistance?! Yeah, needless to say Indiana does not think highly of FEMA.

[Ordie]

FEMA is by far the worst government agency ever formed. We had a town nearly wiped out by a tornado last year and when they asked for assistance from FEMA were flat out denied. What the hell is your purpose if not to provide emergency assistance?! Yeah, needless to say Indiana does not think highly of FEMA.

What happened to FEMA since Bush was part of the 'starve the beast' mentality of the neo-cons.

[helomech]

The crisis of Katrina became a racist issue when Nagin popped off to the media when he didn't take charge of the city and it's outlying areas in that time of need;the breakdown of it's law enforcement department complicated matters even worse with brazen widespread looting and whatnot;I've never been to New Orleans but,after that display of leadership breakdown-both city and state-and the mob mentality it's citizens took on,I'm pretty damn sure I won't be visiting at all

It still amazes me that a large number of people in this country blame Bush for the aftermath but as it has been already mentioned,those who are of the handout type(Democratic party)will always be looking for just that-a handout

I like many others,was astonished when the citizens of New Orleans re-elected that numbnut Nagin to office!Talk about ignorance....

@Hilbert,how are the people of Lousiana with Bobby Jindal as Governor?

[Son of Damian]

Bush catches flak for Katrina because of the same reason Carter catches flak for the Iranian Hostage Crisis, he was President. The President is the head of the federal government which has certain powers and authority over state and local government. So when the local government failed, and the state government failed, and the federal agencies that are supposed to help the state/local governments in a time of crisis failed people looked to the President. But Bush was off celebrating McCain's B-day and was totally aloof for the first week after the storm hit.

While there was really almost nothing Bush as commander in chief could have done, the image of him being so aloof after such a disaster is what really hurt him.

[Createdeemcee]

While there was really almost nothing Bush as commander in chief could have done, the image of him being so aloof after such a disaster is what really hurt him.

Would have been nothing to drop food/water 24hrs after the storm. Bombed Targets in Iraq get water dropped after the bomb. Thats what hurt the most to see. It was torture, first day was like ok there getting help, second day was like ok they are a little slow, 3rd day was out of line the forth day bush lost support. And lastly when help came was all to late for him. All the states surrounding NO. Was truely uncalled for and showed that our powers laked for our own citizens, more so than a country we currently occupy. He jacked this one, and the start of this thread shows he realized it.

[LineDoggie]

Bush catches flak for Katrina because of the same reason Carter catches flak for the Iranian Hostage Crisis, he was President. The President is the head of the federal government which has certain powers and authority over state and local government. So when the local government failed, and the state government failed, and the federal agencies that are supposed to help the state/local governments in a time of crisis failed people looked to the President. But Bush was off celebrating McCain's B-day and was totally aloof for the first week after the storm hit.

While there was really almost nothing Bush as commander in chief could have done, the image of him being so aloof after such a disaster is what really hurt him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesnt Federal Law require the State or Locality to request Federal Help first? In otherwords the feds just cant jump in and take over operations, no?

[Son of Damian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesnt Federal Law require the State or Locality to request Federal Help first? In otherwords the feds just cant jump in and take over operations, no?

I believe so, but aren't there some special powers laws that allow a president to go around such procedures in certain crisis/disasters?

[Walter Sobchak]

I believe so, but aren't there some special powers laws that allow a president to go around such procedures in certain crisis/disasters?

I don't think that would apply here, as it did when Eisenhower sent in the Airborne to desegregate Little Rock Schools.

But essentially, under Article X of the Constitution, I believe things like this are the purview of local government, first.

Without local cooperation and contingencies, there is no way any amount of aid can get to where it needs to go. In fact, that was one of the problems. Remember, the federal responders and any manpower they can call on cannot automatically function with any degree of efficiency without some local support.

This was just a wall-to-wall FUBAR.