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hist2004
06-19-2004, 08:03 AM
The Washington Post
June 18, 2004

While no one was looking, something historic happened in the Middle East. The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

For Israel, the victory is bitter. The past four years of terrorism have killed almost 1,000 Israelis and maimed thousands of others. But Israel has won strategically. The intent of the intifada was to demoralize Israel, destroy its economy, bring it to its knees, and thus force it to withdraw and surrender to Palestinian demands, just as Israel withdrew in defeat from southern Lebanon in May 2000.

That did not happen. Israel's economy was certainly wounded, but it is growing again. Tourism had dwindled to almost nothing at the height of the intifada, but tourists are returning. And the Israelis were never demoralized. They kept living their lives, the young people in particular returning to cafes and discos and buses just hours after a horrific bombing. Israelis turned out to be a lot tougher and braver than the Palestinians had imagined.

The end of the intifada does not mean the end of terrorism. There was terrorism before the intifada and there will be terrorism to come. What has happened, however, is an end to systematic, regular, debilitating, unstoppable terror -- terror as a reliable weapon. At the height of the intifada, there were nine suicide attacks in Israel killing 85 Israelis in just one month (March 2002). In the past three months there have been none.

The overall level of violence has been reduced by more than 70 percent. How did Israel do it? By ignoring its critics and launching a two-****ged campaign of self-defense.

First, Israel targeted terrorist leaders -- attacks so hypocritically denounced by Westerners who, at the same time, cheer the hunt for, and demand the head of, Osama bin Laden. The top echelon of Hamas and other terrorist groups has been either arrested, killed or driven underground. The others are now so afraid of Israeli precision and intelligence -- the last Hamas operative to be killed by missile was riding a motorcycle -- that they are forced to devote much of their time and energy to self-protection and concealment.

Second, the fence. Only about a quarter of the separation fence has been built, but its effect is unmistakable. The northern part is already complete, and attacks in northern Israel have dwindled to almost nothing.

This success does not just save innocent lives; it changes the strategic equation of the whole conflict.

Yasser Arafat started the intifada in September 2000, just weeks after he had rejected, at Camp David, Israel's offer of withdrawal, settlement evacuation, sharing of Jerusalem and establishment of a Palestinian state. Arafat wanted all that, of course, but without having to make peace and recognize a Jewish state. Hence the terror campaign -- to force Israel to give it all up unilaterally.

Arafat failed, spectacularly. The violence did not bring Israel to its knees. Instead, it created chaos, lawlessness and economic disaster in the Palestinian areas. The Palestinians know the ruin that Arafat has brought, and they are beginning to protest it. He promised them blood and victory; he delivered on the blood.

Even more important, they have lost their place at the table. Israel is now defining a new equilibrium that will reign for years to come -- the separation fence is unilaterally drawing the line that separates Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians were offered the chance to negotiate that frontier at Camp David and chose war instead. Now they are paying the price.

It stands to reason. It is the height of absurdity to launch a terrorist war against Israel, then demand the right to determine the nature and route of the barrier built to prevent that very terrorism.

These new strategic realities are not just creating a new equilibrium, they are creating the first hope for peace since Arafat officially tore up the Oslo accords four years ago. Once Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and has completed the fence, terrorism as a strategic option will be effectively dead. The only way for the Palestinians to achieve statehood and dignity, and to determine the contours of their own state, will be to negotiate a final peace based on genuine coexistence with a Jewish state.

It could be a year, five years or a generation until the Palestinians come to that realization. The pity is that so many, Arab and Israeli, will have had to die before then.

Regards,
Hist2004

hist2004
06-19-2004, 08:04 AM
Sorry, didn't see someone else already posted this under another title.

Regards,
Hist2004

Javehn
06-19-2004, 08:06 AM
It was posted allready . And the victory is a very strange measure here . This "victory" cost allot for both sides .

IDFM203
06-19-2004, 09:41 AM
Great article :D and thanks for posting it.


I agree with everything written there, though the term victory as if we have a complete victory perhaps is a bit too far reaching, though I am not saying that the term is inappropriate just that I guess it’s a victory with a high caution attached to it.

I mean I still see their will to carry out attacks and I don’t think that will ever stop (no matter what we offer or do or don’t do to them) and as such we will never have a complete victory, though yes we have curbed their abilities so significantly that I guess in that respect we do have a victory.

And yes Javehn is right, it was at a high cost to both sides, though for us, the cost was high and IMO some of that is our fault, I mean IMO we should have started op. defensive shield and what we are doing now, back in 2000, when there were also then homicide bombings and shooting attacks daily and for sure weekly, but simply due to our lefty politics, we waited and I think that cost us a lot more then we should have allowed it to be.

Just my take on all this.....


Shalom :D

citizen-k
06-19-2004, 10:59 AM
"WE WON!!! WE WON!!!" (blacks after OJ's trial)

"WHAT THE **** DID WE WIN?, every day I'm checking the mail box for my OJ prize, and nothing..."

(Chris rock)

UoUo
06-19-2004, 11:46 AM
יופי....נמשיך לעבוד על עצמנו שניצחנו...ת'כלס..בעוד כמה חודשים אנחנו הולכים לברוח מעזה.....אין מה לעשות חברים, כמה שלא תנסו לתרץ את זה...הם ניצחו.. רצועת עזה לא הייתה שלהם..ועכשיו הם הולכים לקבל את כל הרצועה.

Moledet
06-19-2004, 11:51 AM
יופי....נמשיך לעבוד על עצמנו שניצחנו...ת'כלס..בעוד כמה חודשים אנחנו הולכים לברוח מעזה.....אין מה לעשות חברים, כמה שלא תנסו לתרץ את זה...הם ניצחו.. רצועת עזה לא הייתה שלהם..ועכשיו הם הולכים לקבל את כל הרצועה.
סוף סוף מישהו לא נאיבי והגיוני.

S'13
06-19-2004, 01:11 PM
יופי....נמשיך לעבוד על עצמנו שניצחנו...ת'כלס..בעוד כמה חודשים אנחנו הולכים לברוח מעזה.....אין מה לעשות חברים, כמה שלא תנסו לתרץ את זה...הם ניצחו.. רצועת עזה לא הייתה שלהם..ועכשיו הם הולכים לקבל את כל הרצועה.
סוף סוף מישהו לא נאיבי והגיוני.

:lol: p-) :lol:

מישהו שהוא מיציאותי נחשב אצלך לנאיבי?

ShotOver
06-19-2004, 01:18 PM
Good article.
Way to go IDF, congrats on ya win boys :P

UoUo
06-19-2004, 01:25 PM
Good article.
Way to go IDF, congrats on ya win boys :P

:hug:

woot


ואוו..אנחנו עלובים :D
למה אנחנו עובדים על עצמנו?

alexbmn
06-19-2004, 02:19 PM
eh I even saw an article like that in haaretz a couple of months ago. They 've really been proliferating recently.Ok first of all a month and a half ago a mother and her four daughters were killed,so it hasnt been three months since a successfull terrorist attack. Anyway its true that the terrorists' capabilities have been diminished but really all it takes is for one really lucky asshole with a an explosive belt and this 'victory" evaporates into thin air. And as one Israeli on another forum pointed out,even during the seige of Leningrad people tried to go on with their daily lives. Its not a sign of victory. When the wall is complete and terrorists attacks go down to zero in two years then we'll start talking.

AirZone
06-19-2004, 02:21 PM
יש בזה משהו...ניצחון מר אבל לפחות אנחנו מתחילים להפסיק עם זה
צמעו עזה בחיים לא תיהיה שלנו אם ניהיה מציאותים יותר ממיליון פלשתינאים לא טועים

אבל איזור יהודה ושומרון... זה כבר סיפור אחר בגלל הגדר המזרחית שאשכרה חותכת כפרים שלמים אבל למזלנו (ולצערם) שטח זה בסוף יהיה שלנו... נכון זה לא חוקי אבל על הזין שלי :lol:

IDFM203
06-19-2004, 02:45 PM
eh I even saw an article like that in haaretz a couple of months ago. They 've really been proliferating recently.Ok first of all a month and a half ago a mother and her four daughters were killed,so it hasnt been three months since a successfull terrorist attack. Anyway its true that the terrorists' capabilities have been diminished but really all it takes is for one really lucky asshole with a an explosive belt and this 'victory" evaporates into thin air. And as one Israeli on another forum pointed out,even during the seige of Leningrad people tried to go on with their daily lives. Its not a sign of victory. When the wall is complete and terrorists attacks go down to zero in two years then we'll start talking.I disagree, for yes we KNOW that there will be another attack, and even the article recognizes that, however it is a victory in the sense that now, we have reduced violence against us by over 70 percent !! and in fact we now stop over 90 percent of their attempts at infiltrations inside of Israel, which is much higher then the lower then 30 percent just a couple of years ago, before we responded by going after them.

Yes I believe when the anti terror fence is completed the reduction of violence against us will even drop further, but I don’t think we will ever get 100 percent.

Like I have said before, its impossible to be 100 percent effective and indeed I and everyone knows that one will get through, however that doesn’t take away at all from what the article is saying, for its a lot better then how it was when one was getting through daily and for sure weekly, not to mention to constant shooting attacks on our citizens, where now its almost non existing.

You point out that mother and her children that were killed, well that’s sad and indeed it further showed how low they can go when they purposely targeted them, however I think that three-month stat is referring to specifically to homicide bombings inside of Israeli cities or towns and the fact is I believe there hasn’t been any.

Lastly one point that I believe gets overlooked, it’s a known fact that because of the IDF and Shin Bet actions in killing off a lot of the bomb makers or destroying a lot of the bomb making factories, well even if they get off an attack, the amount of explosives is much lower then how it was before 2 years ago.

We saw in the past year that most of the homicide bombings, the amount that were killed were a lot less then how it was before.

Shalom :D

Mr. Nielsen
06-19-2004, 06:24 PM
While no one was looking, something historic happened in the Middle East. The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

I'am looking and I haven't seen that. But let us leave that for the moment, after all it's not the first time we hear that.

Perhaps the question one should ask is, what would Barak (or perhaps we should ask Mofaz) have considered to be a victory?

What would Sharon consider a victory, in 2001? Or in 2002?

UoUo
06-19-2004, 06:47 PM
Stoping the killing of Israeli people and ,ake the pal' realize that the intifada only arm them.

IDFM203
06-19-2004, 09:23 PM
While no one was looking, something historic happened in the Middle East. The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.

I'am looking and I haven't seen that. Ok the article as well as I (now and in the past) have made a case of how we are winning (well the article says victory as if we won, so ok I think perhaps that is too far reaching but I do stand by “winning”) now all you did was merely say you don’t see it, but you make no case whatsoever to dispute what the article or what I am saying. Simply YOU saying its wrong and not making any case for it, doesn’t disprove anything, even you should be able to accept that premise, at least I hope so :roll:


after all it's not the first time we hear that.

Actually it’s only been this year that people have been saying it and of course, for the results are very evident this year.

Last year too I saw signs of it, but things don’t happen over night and well this past year we have really seen the results of our actions and how significantly we (ONLY becouse of our preventive actions) have reduced the violence against us.

And of course in 2002 and before no one was saying it for we didn’t do the actions that we are doing now that have resulted in what we see today (much less violence).

Shalom :D