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sinophile
01-02-2009, 10:40 PM
Searched to see if this was posted. It was not that I could see. Snopes has it as correctly attributed (http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/knox.asp).




Letter To GM

Letter To General Motors
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Abridged letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors

Dear Employee,

Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis.....................As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard.

Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support.

Troy Clarke
President
General Motors North America

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Gregory Knox,

In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me.

You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream".

The dream is over!

The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities and that still the masses will line up to buy our products

Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.

Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states:

There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not.

You're right, it's not JUST management, how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week

How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!?

How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea:

over the last few years we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors.

What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!?

Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them?

The K car vs. the Accord?

The Pinto vs. the Civic?!?

Do I need to go on?

We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades.

Time to pay for your sins, Detroit .

I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day and something else would happen. Where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up. That is how a free market system works. It does work if we would let it work!

But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work; that we need the government to step in and "save us". Save us, hell we're nationalizing and unfortunately too many of this once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams yeah THAT'S important.

Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?...

How can that be???

Let's see - -

Fuel efficient -

Listening to customers -

Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul -

Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago -

Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans -

Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy" -

Efficient front and back offices -

Non union environment -

Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know in their hearts

I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into. My children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way). I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through.

Radical concept, huh?

Am I there for them in the wings? Of course but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults

I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government.

Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins.

Bad news people, it's coming whether we like it or not.

The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away" I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied "we might not do it in a year or in four"! Where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office

Stop trying to put off the inevitable!

That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000!

People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits!

That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year!

That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home!

Let the market correct itself people, it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation that appreciates what is has and doesn't live beyond its means and gets back to basics and redevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world and probably turns back to God.

Sorry, don't cut my head off. I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news"



Gregory J Knox

President

Knox Machinery, Inc.

deagle
01-02-2009, 11:58 PM
we need an automaker revolution. clearly, all the years of abysmal abuse, corruption, mismanagement have taken their toll, and the upper echelon of those companies/govts should be held accountable.

BearInBunnySuit
01-03-2009, 12:08 AM
That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000!

People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits!

That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year!

That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home!

I agree. The fiasco we are witnessing today is the combined work of the greedy corporations, the unscrupulous banks and the complacent government. They opened the window and the consumers jumped. Easy credit to fuel the economy sounds good but who's going to pay the piper?

sinophile
01-03-2009, 12:12 AM
I agree. The fiasco we are seeing today is the combined work of the greedy corporations, the unscrupulous banks and the complacent government. They opened the window and the consumers jumped. Easy credit to fuel the economy sounds good but who's going to pay the piper?

Funny... you left out the greedy unions and lazy workers. Accident?

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-03-2009, 12:15 AM
That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year!

Whilst that may seem a lot of money. Is it really a lot of money. Would they even be able to get enough workers to work for them if they never offered the wages and benefits they do?

SkyUS
01-03-2009, 12:19 AM
Min

seriously 85k for a forklift driver, that's absurd, but then again Unions take approximately up to a half of your hourly wage, so after all the deductions maybe it's not so high afterall.

I still can't imagine getting even paid let's say 40k for a forklift driver, that's just ridiculous.

helomech
01-03-2009, 12:55 AM
85K a year for driving a forklift?WTF is that all about?

How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!?

I saw stuff like this when I worked a contract years ago for the US Navy,useless workers who didn't do sh1t for an 8 hour workday and gloating about it in front of the new,temporary workers and only to keep their jobs when those 180 temporary workers got laid off-no justice:-(

I have not seen this letter before but that is telling it like it is.Detroit looks like a dead and bloated carcass on the side of the road,time to clean that sh1t up and begin anew.
It does piss me off having to bail these ****s out because of their own ineptitude:bash:

redhawk_six
01-03-2009, 01:08 AM
Gregory J Knox for President of the United States!

ronnieraygun
01-03-2009, 01:26 AM
Joe the Plumber is writing now? Yikes.

Red_Rage
01-03-2009, 01:50 AM
Whilst that may seem a lot of money. Is it really a lot of money. Would they even be able to get enough workers to work for them if they never offered the wages and benefits they do?


It is absolutely ridicolous wage. I have Hon.BA, MBA, and a pretty good corporate office job. It pays 75k Canadian, and half is taken away in taxes (but such is Canada).

Now i don't know what it takes to become a forklift driver, but i am pretty sure it doesn't take 6 years and over 60k to do... Heck, i drove those things for what came up to 3 bucks an hour while in the military without any certification (being an infantryman myself). It's not right when blue collar jobs pay more than most professional occupations (there are certainly exceptions, as certain blue collar occupations got very high tech, requiring 3+ years of trade schools....but forklift drivers and assembly workers don't fall into that category).



Completely agree with Mr. Knox on all points.

BearInBunnySuit
01-03-2009, 03:24 AM
Funny... you left out the greedy unions and lazy workers. Accident?

Uhm, no. The point I was focusing on in my post was about people living beyond their means so the "greedy" unions and the "lazy" workers aren't really relevant in that context.

dfk
01-03-2009, 03:56 AM
This sh1t is endless. I bet the Big Three will come back to beg more a few months later, after they burn out the fresh billion dolar bailout money.

Walter Sobchak
01-03-2009, 05:00 AM
Gregory J Knox for President of the United States!

How about Ron Paul? Although I disagree with him on Iraq and other foreign policy issues, he's the only one in Washington who "get it" as far as monetary policy is concerned. I voted for him in the Republican Primary.

Now we elect people who tell us what we want to hear. We used to have leaders who told us what we needed to hear.

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-03-2009, 06:11 AM
It is absolutely ridicolous wage. I have Hon.BA, MBA, and a pretty good corporate office job. It pays 75k Canadian, and half is taken away in taxes (but such is Canada).

Now i don't know what it takes to become a forklift driver, but i am pretty sure it doesn't take 6 years and over 60k to do... Heck, i drove those things for what came up to 3 bucks an hour while in the military without any certification (being an infantryman myself). It's not right when blue collar jobs pay more than most professional occupations (there are certainly exceptions, as certain blue collar occupations got very high tech, requiring 3+ years of trade schools....but forklift drivers and assembly workers don't fall into that category).



Completely agree with Mr. Knox on all points.

It's called supply and demand and some companies are willing to pay more then others. Also being in a unionized shop also has benefits.

There are lower skilled jobs in Australia that pay more then 100k a year. The location of a company is also a factor. Two identical jobs. 1 in Sydney and 1 in say Alice Springs are going to be offering different wages.

It's guys like this Mr Knox that caused massive labour unrest 100 years ago

Connaught Ranger
01-03-2009, 06:57 AM
Don't blame Mr. Knox for telling it as it really is. . . .

Those who call the tune will have to pay the piper,

A few C.E.O.'s stood again a wall and shot as an example would helpp-)

Its not up to the humble tax-payer to bail these greedy cluster-f*cks out.

Roy Batty
01-03-2009, 09:08 AM
If I owned a restaraunt and it was going under (due to crap food, sh*t service and high prices) should I now expect the taxpayer to pump some money into it so my wait staff and bartenders are not going to be out of work?

Bia
01-03-2009, 09:21 AM
Whilst that may seem a lot of money. Is it really a lot of money. Would they even be able to get enough workers to work for them if they never offered the wages and benefits they do?85k driving a forklift is unheard of....

UNLESS... you work for a gov contractor or a company with it's hands in the Govs pocket.

Real businesses... that dont rely on the feds or unions to survive... might pay a forklift driver 15k-25k


I'd bet KBR forklift drivers in Iraq prob make 85K in 2 months.

Bleifuss
01-03-2009, 10:48 AM
You can make AUS$80 000+ driving earthmoving equipment in Australia (no , not in the mines ,just construction).
It's all supply and demand , everyone rushed off to uni to be a lawyer, IT professional , doctor etc. , but no one rushed for earthmoving and transport jobs (trucks , busses).
Plus they are hard to learn and used to be difficult to get into.
As a result there is a shortage and as with any commodity the prices go up.

willytee
01-03-2009, 10:07 PM
Whilst that may seem a lot of money. Is it really a lot of money. Would they even be able to get enough workers to work for them if they never offered the wages and benefits they do?

Im sure there are plenty of peolpe out there who would love to have a job like that if it was offered at 40k. 85k is crazy for a forklift driver, minimal skill required. No math or logic or schooling is involved. Would the NFL get players to play football if the highest paid player was 90-150k. Of course there is always someone waiting in line for a job and will do it for alot less.

Albatross
01-03-2009, 10:13 PM
Whilst that may seem a lot of money. Is it really a lot of money. Would they even be able to get enough workers to work for them if they never offered the wages and benefits they do?

Hell yes they would be able too. 85k for driving a lift is way, way, way overpaid. That is a $12.50/hr gig. These ****ers need to get over it.

xav
01-04-2009, 03:04 AM
That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year!

Please tell me this is an exageration/joke!
I have an MBA and make far less then that!

Albatross
01-04-2009, 03:06 AM
Please tell me this is an exageration/joke!
I have an MBA and make far less then that!


I have a friend that works for the local utility company and earns 90k. He is a high school drop out. Sense, that makes none.

Roy Batty
01-04-2009, 09:35 AM
I have a friend that works for the local utility company and earns 90k. He is a high school drop out. Sense, that makes none.

He makes 40k more than me....and people shoot at me for that amoount...lol

Vince S
01-04-2009, 09:43 AM
Please tell me this is an exageration/joke!
I have an MBA and make far less then that!

Nope. GM employees on the production line in Windsor Ont. are making an average of 69$ CAD / hr. Oh and yeah most haven't finished high school.

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-04-2009, 07:27 PM
Please tell me this is an exageration/joke!
I have an MBA and make far less then that!

An MBA is **** all dude. Every ****er has one.

The last company I worked for more or less considered a MBA toilet paper and if you had one you were the coffee boy

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-04-2009, 07:28 PM
Hell yes they would be able too. 85k for driving a lift is way, way, way overpaid. That is a $12.50/hr gig. These ****ers need to get over it.

My father was a forlift driver and he was on a good wage.

Mr.K
01-04-2009, 07:40 PM
If I owned a restaraunt and it was going under (due to crap food, sh*t service and high prices) should I now expect the taxpayer to pump some money into it so my wait staff and bartenders are not going to be out of work?

Well to play the devil's advocate, if you employed a good part of the city where your restaurant is, it would make sense for the government to help you out unless they want a ghost town.

I agree with Mr. Knox.

Bushranger
01-04-2009, 08:05 PM
I have a friend that works for the local utility company and earns 90k. He is a high school drop out. Sense, that makes none.


Im hearing ya Albi, on building sites in Australia a dumb ass labourer can earn more than a tradesman & all they do is push a broom around or some other mundane task. Thats why im getting of the tools.

Red_Rage
01-04-2009, 09:29 PM
An MBA is **** all dude. Every ****er has one.

The last company I worked for more or less considered a MBA toilet paper and if you had one you were the coffee boy


Were you all Nobel-winning PhDs or what?


I've worked for a few very major companies, and MBA was definately not toilet paper.

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-04-2009, 09:38 PM
No. Most of us did not even have degrees and the ones that did were generally degrees that meant nothing for the work we were doing.