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Fage
01-07-2009, 08:43 AM
Jan 5

BANGALORE : This is what the bunch of 91 farmers from the state who visited China in December for a week-long educational tour had to deal with: a Chinese speaking in his mother tongue, another translating it to English and an English-literate Kannadiga translating it to Kannada! The state government had sponsored the trip, but not sent any translators along.

Though the group included many English-speaking progressive farmers, language was a barrier. It was all the more difficult for the English-illiterate farmers.

"They don't know English. Even though the translator spoke in English, it was difficult to follow,'' said Papanna, a native of Katannallur, Bangalore East. Many others echoed his opinion. Papanna cited an example. "I asked them about the water table and how much they need to dig for a well. The reply was 350 metres. How is that possible? I know this was a translation error.''

How did they manage?

As the tour included less of theory and more practical learning through site visits, the farmers managed to grasp the essence. "I don't know English. But I am a farmer and have tried experimenting with some modern techniques. So I could gather their practices,'' said Indiramma Dhananjayappa from Alavarthi in Davangere.

What did they learn?

The China-returned farmers can't stop harping about the rich experience. Apart from the Great Wall of China and the splendour of Beijing and Shanghai, they were impressed by the culture of discipline and hard work the Chinese people follow. On their list of lessons learned are mechanized farming, organic farming, optimum utilization of land, zero-waste approach, soil-less cultivation, and well streamlined system of agriculture. They say the government supports farmers right from giving land on lease to supplying seeds, fertilizers and modern equipment, to buying the produce.

"There are no middlemen. Farmers get justice for their hard work. If the same system is implemented here, there would be no suicides,'' said Dr J R Sujatha, a taluk panchayat member from Chitradurga district.

How will they use the knowledge?

Sujatha has decided to spread the knowledge she has acquired. She explained: "We visited a food and beverages company where hundreds of varieties of juice are made. I was shocked to see only three employees producing more than 10,000 packs a day. Manual farming is minimum. It is absolutely scientific and technology-driven. They don't waste a single leaf. Besides adopting these methods on our land, I am keen to spread the message about organic and zero-waste farming.''

Subbanna, a farmer from Huskur, and Papanna, are impressed with the green houses in China and have decided to implement it on their land. What has also fascinated Subbanna is the Chinese men working at the kitchen. "Wherever you go, be it hotels or villages, it is the men who cook. The women work outside,'' he said.

Organic farming and green houses caught the imagination of Indiramma. "I saw a tomato plant more than 10 feet high. After this trip, I am confident to go in for organic farming in a big way,'' she said.

THE TRIP

Under the Karnataka Krishi Mission, the government intends to send 1,000 farmers every year to study agricultural practices in China. It has earmarked Rs 5 crore for the tour this year. The first batch left Bangalore on December 23. The following is the list of places the farmers visited:

* Xiaotangshan Modern Agricultural Base, an agricultural science park that has several research and production centres focusing on production and popularization of equipment, nursery, processing of feed and food and sheep raising

* To understand the link between food processing and fruit supplying farmers, the visitors went to Huiyuan Beverages and Food Company

* Shunyi Hitech Agricultural Pilot Zone to see soil-less cultivation of vegetables in controlled atmosphere and to visit sheep farm

* Discussion with Beijing Agricultural Univesity professors and organic farmers

* Liu-min Ying Ecological Farm and Silk Industry, Shanghai Agricultural Machinery Research Institute, Sunqiao Modern Agriculture Development Zone, Jinshan Special Agriculture Development Zone, University Industry Research Insitute of Shanghai where farmers saw fish, prawns and shrimps reared in controlled condition

* Large-scale rice processing units, and poly-houses where vegetables are grown organically

SUGGESTIONS TO THE GOVERNMENT

* Eliminate middlemen

* Provide subsidies

* Encourage mechanized, organic and zero-waste farming

Source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bangalore/Lessons_from_China_lost_in_translation/articleshow/3934758.cms

Ordie
01-07-2009, 08:05 PM
One thing that India needs to work on is infrastructure.

Getting produce to the urban markets is critical to the profit margins of the farmers and distributors. Many food products are spoiled as a result of congestion delays and poor roads.

Adux
01-08-2009, 12:41 AM
Infrastructure in the very true modern sense is non-existant in India

ggk
01-08-2009, 12:43 AM
Infrastructure in the very true modern sense is non-existant in India

is it because of the massive flood?

Adux
01-08-2009, 01:17 AM
is it because of the massive flood?

No, it is because of lack of planning and funds in the intial years, now people have settled where roads and bridges should have been, so it has become costly to make them move, therefore the impasse. The problems of having a free and democratic setup..lol

Ordie
01-08-2009, 01:38 AM
No, it is because of lack of planning and funds in the intial years, now people have settled where roads and bridges should have been, so it has become costly to make them move, therefore the impasse. The problems of having a free and democratic setup..lol

Why not build roads on the premise of national security. That's how we did it in the 1950's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956

We hosted a group of Indian Civil and Traffic engineers in our office. I did a dog and pony show on our latest projects, environmental review process and technology.

They were more interested in policymaking, public involvement and the approval process.

I tell them that American politicians get rewarded for implementing projects. The Indian engineer tells me that thier politicians get rewarded for being obstructionist.

The following week we hosted a similar group from China. They were shocked how long it took to get projects done in the US due to environmental review. The Chinese engineer tells me that they just do it without much debate.

Adux
01-08-2009, 02:17 AM
They were more interested in policymaking, public involvement and the approval process.


That is where the problem is, It is not the fault of the politican per se, more of a societal problem. Where they cant understand the greater scheme of things. Indian Society is far more left and hippie, than you know

Lala_Peace
01-08-2009, 05:45 AM
Why not build roads on the premise of national security. That's how we did it in the 1950's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956

We hosted a group of Indian Civil and Traffic engineers in our office. I did a dog and pony show on our latest projects, environmental review process and technology.

They were more interested in policymaking, public involvement and the approval process.

I tell them that American politicians get rewarded for implementing projects. The Indian engineer tells me that thier politicians get rewarded for being obstructionist.

The following week we hosted a similar group from China. They were shocked how long it took to get projects done in the US due to environmental review. The Chinese engineer tells me that they just do it without much debate.

In this front I have to concede that Indian Politics is obstructionist along with its population. The whole issue of neglected infrastructure is due to lack of fund. It was like in 1995 the National Highway project was passed, but stalled due to lack of funding. After 2000 or so it possible to resume work. Corruption is another issue that hunts India. I will not say only politicians are corrupt. I have seen in my village during early 90s public works department would dump road construction materials by the road. But before the work begins villagers will siphoned off a lion share of that in their own use. Then there was a slogan “Sarkar ka maal dariya main daal” (No need to think before wasting Govt. property). In my village we got concrete road only this year, though the roads approaching my village was constructed 4 years back. This is because of my village voted for a particular party in a local election. That kind of thing also delays a project. I think Govt. is ready to invest in a big way in infrastructure, but the implementing agency has problems from their own creation, from political alignments and corruption in the society.
With all these problems I think now things are changing fast with the reforms and due to the alertness of print and electronics media.

Ordie
01-08-2009, 12:54 PM
^^^^
Perhaps the Indian military should take the project management lead on the premise that roads are needed for national security purposes. The specifications may include building roads wide enough to allow the roads to be used as temporary runways in times of national crisis.

Adux
01-08-2009, 01:20 PM
Ordie,

Would you agree with me if we can talk about Organization behaviour in a company, the same rule can be applied to a country?
If that be so, then the problem is not so much with Top Mangement(who in a democracy comes from the workers), but the workers in general who has a heavy left bent and not to mention because of their dharmic heritage has a real problem with modernity and practical thinking! and is averse to change, somehow believe their living style is better than those of the west, and has contempt for every other way of living... There is a movie in Hindi, which address this same very problem, called Swades. You can see rural India a bit more better, I would really want you to see it, hopefully your near by video store has it with english subtitiles, it might even help with your work for the next batch of Indian enggs

Ordie
01-08-2009, 01:23 PM
Ordie,

Would you agree with me if we can talk about Organization behaviour in a company, the same rule can be applied to a country?
If that be so, then the problem is not so much with Top Mangement(who in a democracy comes from the workers), but the workers in general who has a heavy left bent and not to mention because of their dharmic heritage has a real problem with modernity and practical thinking!

Contract the work to Chinese workers.

If they could build our railroads and the Great Wall, they can do anything.

That should wake them up.

Adux
01-08-2009, 01:33 PM
Ordie,

I had edited by earlier posts, do read it again,

if we contract to Chinese workers, then we have demonstrations going all around!!! There is a big hue and cry over here, when a Malayasian government funded project had some malayasians on its middle mangement! I have serious problems with the attitude of Indians in these kind of situation

PS: I really want you to see the movie Swades.

ggk
01-09-2009, 10:08 AM
you know i did do a feasibility study on delhi and mumbai light rail transport..... of course someone wlse steal thos project from us, but the study are quite fascinating

Adux
01-09-2009, 10:29 AM
you know i did do a feasibility study on delhi and mumbai light rail transport..... of course someone wlse steal thos project from us, but the study are quite fascinating

When was this? As far as I know Delhi metro is an Indian project headed by a fellow malayalee and is funded by the japanese government.

ggk
01-09-2009, 10:49 AM
When was this? As far as I know Delhi metro is an Indian project headed by a fellow malayalee and is funded by the japanese government.

Indian government invite us to do a fesibility studies only. It not necessarily means they award the project to us, ...i did that study about 5 years ago....at that time we proposed a monorail type train.

sujithkochi
01-09-2009, 11:00 AM
adux, u forgot to mention one thing that stalls most of the projects in India - court orders (stay) being secured by the ppl who has to first move from the project site to get the project done. the entire project may be held up by just a handful of ppl who dont want to vacate the area expecting more compensation from the govt. there has been instances where I myself has felt like using a bull dozer or a jcb to demolish a bldg right in the centre of the project site (a road, in this case) so that the contruction could be completed

Adux
01-09-2009, 11:13 AM
Actually that is a good thing, that they can go to the court for any problems, isnt that the freedom we talk about, the problem is with the slow judiciary and even slower bureaucracy.

Justice delayed is justice denied

Ordie
01-09-2009, 01:41 PM
adux, u forgot to mention one thing that stalls most of the projects in India - court orders (stay) being secured by the ppl who has to first move from the project site to get the project done. the entire project may be held up by just a handful of ppl who dont want to vacate the area expecting more compensation from the govt. there has been instances where I myself has felt like using a bull dozer or a jcb to demolish a bldg right in the centre of the project site (a road, in this case) so that the contruction could be completed

In the US, 1/3rd of the project's funding is dedicated toward mitigations. The government can take private property through eminant domain process in which the affected property owner is compensated at the market rate. This can only be done on public projects.

It's very unpopular here in the US and most cities and municipalities would rather settle with the property owner.

Adux
01-09-2009, 02:26 PM
Ordie,

The same is done here, but people delay the process by choice to get more out of the government in terms of compensation, as market rate can be manipulated and is not fixed amount.

Ordie
01-09-2009, 03:48 PM
Ordie,

The same is done here, but people delay the process by choice to get more out of the government in terms of compensation, as market rate can be manipulated and is not fixed amount.

It's understandible, but property values may go up if a decent road or highway is built. Moreover, a farmer's profit may go up if he can sell more produce in the cities if a better road is built.