Australian Peel

[HCV]

Does anyone know when and where this battle drill originated? Presumably with the Australians, and I have seen claims that put it as early as WWII. Would anyone know for sure? Which unit(s) developed it, when exactly was it first trained/used, how did it spread to other militaries? Many thanks!

Cheers

HANS

[digrar]

Total speculation.
I've read that the Brits were doing shoot and scoot break contacts in the 50's in Malaya, so I imagine it wasn't SASR that started it. There was a bit of interoperability with the Brits in WW2 amongst the Z and M special forces groups and various Brits from SOE, it may have come from that training they received then.
From there some of those blokes would have ended up in 22 and they trained every man and his dog over the next few decades, so that would probably account for the wide spread use of the drill and the name.

[Solomin]

I don't have any idea when the US military began to use this drill or even if it is taught, however a few years ago I asked my father if he knew what an Australian Peel was and he didn't know the name, only the action itself as something he used in Vietnam.

That being said, and with the lack of jungle training draftees like him received in the 60s, it seems that he either learned it from other grunts, but was not taught it in his stateside training.

[Richard W]

This is what I was told back in the Dark Ages:

After Hitler over ran France Churchill authorized formation of the Commandos who started out raided fishing villages. The Commandos would land at the docks and advance usually uphill through narrow streets. The German garrison would counter attack down hill and over run the Commando advance guard.

In response the Commandos adopted the following drill:

Lead scout armed with Thompson SMG

On contact scout empties mag into Germans who take cover

At the same time the guys behind the scout step into doorways alternating left and right.

As soon as the mag is emptied the scout turns on his heels and sprints down the street to the end of the formation and takes cover in a doorway.

The next guy steps out of the doorway and empties his mag at the nasty Germans then he turns heel and runs down the street.

The process is repeated in turn by each guy in the formation thus creating space between the Commandos and the nasty Germans until contact was broken.

When the Brit Commandos went to Burma later during the war the criminal Australians picked up the technique from them and brilliantly adapted it to teh jungle.

The criminal Australians taught it to us. (The guy who taught me was a professional criminal and great guy who volunteered on advice of a Judge.)

We (USA) modified it with CS and WP grenades and the last guy in the patrol carrying a claymore bag sewn on top of his jungle ruck with a claymore all set to go with a M60 fuse igniter, a 30-second time fuse adn a non-elec cap..

At least that is the myth.

Regards

[LineDoggie]

Maybe from the Independant Commando Companies on Bougainville? Funny I havent heard that term since the late 80's We were taught it back in '82

[501 Scout]

I've actually done the Peal in live fires, It is still a SOP for some units i.e. Scouts. LRS, and SF.

[LineDoggie]

IIRC it's only for when moving in a "Modified Wedge" aka "Ranger File" movement. We were always forbidden from that movement technique in the Infantry units I was with. Had to be a Wedge, no matter what.

[goose36]

its a bloody good drill and when done properly gets you out of a tight spot quickly under good suppressive fire, we were told it dates back to Malay/Borneo but most likely WW2 i would think.

[goose36]

We (USA) modified it with CS and WP grenades and the last guy in the patrol carrying a claymore bag sewn on top of his jungle ruck with a claymore all set to go with a M60 fuse igniter, a 30-second time fuse adn a non-elec cap..

At least that is the myth.


i think that is highly debatable.

[LineDoggie]

We (USA) modified it with CS and WP grenades and the last guy in the patrol carrying a claymore bag sewn on top of his jungle ruck with a claymore all set to go with a M60 fuse igniter, a 30-second time fuse adn a non-elec cap..

At least that is the myth.


i think that is highly debatable. I didnt even catch that till now. Sheeet I'd be dammned if hes gonna stand next to me with a capped Claymore while humping the boonies.

[Toddy]

In Australia, it's the Tunnel of Love, IIRC

[Richard W]

Oh, I see there is a problem with a non-elec blasting cap in a claymore?

[Richard W]

Come on guys. Please tell a senile old fool why I should not carry a claymore on my ruck with a non-elec cap in it. BTW do you guys carry frag and WP grenades on your harness with the fuses in? Just wondering. Thanks

[goose36]

no not the armed claymore, we were using these weapons in this fashion a long time before the yanks, and no its not the bloody tunnel of love, i hate that term, the tunnel is a totally different drill.

[digrar]

Oh, I see there is a problem with a non-elec blasting cap in a claymore?


Come on guys. Please tell a senile old fool why I should not carry a claymore on my ruck with a non-elec cap in it. BTW do you guys carry frag and WP grenades on your harness with the fuses in? Just wondering. Thanks

I work in the explosives industry, we don't leave dets in boosters unless they are going down the hole. This is with very stable explosives that we routinely throw around on the shot.
There is no way on earth I'd bash around the bush with a primed up claymore sitting in the top of my pack. It takes 5 seconds to put a det into a bomb, if you're going to all of the effort to drop a claymore, you can spend the extra couple of seconds to put the det into it as you sight it.

BTW my grenades were in a pouch that held the handle down regardless of what was going on with the pin and they still scared the **** out of me every day.
I've seen what was left of a set of webbing that a bloke was wearing when two grenades detonated in his pouch. I couldn't tell you what the digger looked like, he's in a box 6 feet under.

[Richard W]

Great! A demolitions expert! OK. I am sure you can cite an incident wherein a claymore with a non-elec cap was detonated by small arms fire? Thanks!

[Richard W]

BTW I am glad that you can put a cap in a claymore in 5-seconds..at night, in the rain, in the middle of all sorts of unpleasantness. I sure could not do it.

[digrar]

I'm an Infantryman by trade champ.

[Richard W]

Terrific. A professional infantryman who works in teh demolition industry. You should know everything. So what exactly is the danger of carrying a claymore with a non-elec cap in it?

[California Joe]

Roger’s Rangers Rules or Plan of Discipline

Major Robert Rogers - 1757

9. If you are obliged to retreat, let the front of your whole party fire and fall back, till the rear has done the same, making for the best ground you can; by this means you will oblige the enemy to pursue you, if they do it at all, in the face of a constant fire.

[Richard W]

Mr. Rogers certainly puts that well

[digrar]

Terrific. A professional infantryman who works in teh demolition industry. You should know everything. So what exactly is the danger of carrying a claymore with a non-elec cap in it?

You're making assumptions.
Personally I wouldn't carry a 700g block of explosives around right behind my head with a detonator of any sort inserted in it, that's just me, I wouldn't do it when I was in a recon patrol and I wouldn't do it now in civvy street. I have seen the results too often of people taking explosives lightly.

[Laworkerbee]

I google "Claymore Mine" and this comes up :|
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k141/laworkerbee/Claymore.jpg

[Britboy]

Was Maj Rogers a Brit, or did I misread that somewhere?

I never knew it was called an Ozzie peel, but I know it. Its not just for specialised recce troops either, its applicable to any patrol or small unit I think. I never heard of using Claymore, WP or CS, but there you go, thats certainly another twist to it thats going to ruin some poor buggers day!

____________________________________________

[Richard W]

No reply? OK. Try this. Take a ruck with a claymore bag sewn on top with a claymore with a non-elec cap in it. Climb to the top of the rappel tower. Drop the ruck, claymore bag facting the ground. Drop it 10, 12 or 20 times. See if anything happens.

[Britboy]

Ah, but what if lightning strikes your pack? What then, eh? p-)

[California Joe]

Yep, he was a Brit. (Colonial) New Hampshire Grants...

Just found out there is a grave not far from my house where some of the Rangers are buried. Have to go check that out. My son is about to start a project on the French and Indian War....

Why Richard, why would anyone want to go throwing claymores around? Not sure about your background but I can assure you that my young friend digrar knows what he's talking about. It's all fun and games until someone loses a head.

[Richard W]

Or, go to the KD range when there are no officers around. Get into the butts. Sandbag an AK or SKS and site it in on a claymore about 50 yards away. Have a non-elec cap in it. Keeping all body parts well in the butt fire the fixed gun at teh claymore. It will probably knock the claymore over after a few rounds anyway. But see if it goes bang.

[Richard W]

A lot of guys, great guys, spent a lot of time and a lot of blood figuring out how to patrol. There were fears that carrying a claymore with a non-elec cap in it would be too dangerous. Well, it turned out to be no more dangerous than carrying fused grenades. And, unlike your friend, dummies like me could not set up a claymore in 5-seconds under stress. This was a good system for the task at hand.

[digrar]

You can play that game, I'm not a fan. I have seen first and second hand when explosives go wrong.

Britboy The tactic works well when you have a small unit in column or single file, if everyone is correctly spaced at the point of contact, you have a small frontage and two blokes at the front of the formation at all times putting down sustained fire and by the time everyone has been through the motion once or twice you're generally out of the contact, or at least in cover from view and make your preperation for a break from the contact.
The other bonus is that everyone knows where everyone else is, there is more control and it's quicker than breaking into pairs and pepper potting back.

[Richard W]

By dropping rucks off rappel towers and out of helicopters with the set up described and shooting at the claymore it gave folks confidence in the system. Do I, a senile old fool, make sense?

[digrar]

You're the only one calling yourself senile, foolish and a dummy. Don't put words in our mouth.

[Richard W]

I agree a world class expert like yourself who knows absolutely everything about all things military should not deign to reply to a senile old fool like me. But I am old. And I got this way in part by good fortune and in part because I keep my ears and eyes open and try to learn and think things through. It is the best life insurance.

[Toddy]

no not the armed claymore, we were using these weapons in this fashion a long time before the yanks, and no its not the bloody tunnel of love, i hate that term, the tunnel is a totally different drill.

From the ADF Government website

"Bdr Liam Varley 8/12 Mdm Regt snaps on a fresh magazine during a tunnel-of-love drill at Forward Air Controller training, Mt Bundey NT."

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1104/images/Sepia%20Varls%2001_th.jpg

In Australia it is Tunnel Of Love I don't care what you say pal

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I agree a world class expert like yourself who knows absolutely everything about all things military should not deign to reply to a senile old fool like me.

Curb the attitude.

digrar is an operationally experienced Infantryman with a Recon background and a wealth of demolitions experience.

Not some wannabe fvcknuckle off the street telling bull-**** stories to impress the kiddies.

He's been nothing but polite in his responses to you, whereas you're just being a ****.

Feel free to disagree but conduct yourself with a modicum of decorum.

[Richard W]

Are you saying that the information that I have presented in this thread is not true, correct, factual and historically verifiable but is instead a story to impress the kiddies?

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

No, I said that digrar isn't telling stories to impress the kiddies.

You want I should use a crayon next time?

Apparently the fact that digrar said quite clearly that he wouldn't carry around an M-18A1 with a det in the well based on his experience has offended you to the point where you feel the need to cop an attitude with him.

If you are so easily and pointlessly offended then your stay will be short.

You have two options from here;

1. Calm down and back off.

2. Keep pushing and suffer the consequences.

The first would be prudent.

The second would seem a shame as it appears that beneath the postering and bluster that you might just have some worthwhile experiences to share.

Choose, sport.

[LineDoggie]

No reply? OK. Try this. Take a ruck with a claymore bag sewn on top with a claymore with a non-elec cap in it. Climb to the top of the rappel tower. Drop the ruck, claymore bag facting the ground. Drop it 10, 12 or 20 times. See if anything happens.

Common Sense Safety Mac, do you carry your frags by the pins also for the CDI factor, ala "Swarzenegger in Commando"?

Do you crimp caps with your teeth?

If not why not?


I would treat anyone walking around with a Primed Claymore as a safety hazard to Myself and My Men, and that person would be rapidly disarmed of said device and sent as far away as possible.

Just because someone carried it that way without killing themselves really doesnt make it a good habit.

And thats from a 27 Year US Infantryman.

[Richard W]

Linedoggie:

If you are really intereste do some research. Try and get an original copy of Joe Adleman's "B 52 Reconnaissance Tips of the Trade". He was a genius. Get the whole thing. It runs about 100 pages. Not the abbreviated ones floating around the internet. He explains this a lot better than I do.

The point is that a claymore with a non-elec cap is no more likely to go bang than a fused grenade. Indeed there is no record of a claymore with a non-elec cap going off on a patrol. Sadly there are many incidnets of fused grenades going off.

The reason for the claymore with a non-elec cap was that in the Dark Ages the last guy in the patrol (the drag) was tasked with both closing the back door with toe poppers and terminating the break conact with the claymore. With a short patrol of 4,5 or 6 guys a break contact drill would go very quickly. The drag under stress simply could not get the mine up, fused and started in time. (Sometimes time pencils were used with success.)

Some patrols did not even take the mine out its bag and off of the ruck. The drag simply pulled the fuse igniter and moved.

You can consider this information or not. I do not care.

[Hollis]

You can play that game, I'm not a fan. I have seen first and second hand when explosives go wrong.



Same here, Frags where not well liked where I was. Hanging one by the spoon would get everyone to scatter. We had a guy disappear in a puff of white smoke. We would also have claymore inspections, the C-4 would evaporate (used for heating chow), Frags where inspected too, I kept mine in pocket in my flak jacket. They were cozy and safe that way.

I was told recon had a "first phase of immediate action" when being pursued. to flip grenades back at the pursuing enemy as they beat feet out of the A/O.

[Richard W]

Ngati Tumatauenga (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=1401)

OK. This is your blog. Your house. Your rules. You have all the power here. I will not respond to, or about, or refer to your friend again. The only reason I posted in the first place is that two young guys I work with saw this thread and (foolishly) asked me to pontificate on this subject. I (foolishly) thought "why not". I will not initiate any other posts on this thread. I will be happy to respond to any questions that are directed to me on this thread. When the thread is closed I will leave your house. I will not post on any other threads.

Is that satisfactory?

[Hollis]

Ngati Tumatauenga (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/member.php?u=1401)

OK. This is your blog. Your house. Your rules. You have all the power here. I will not respond to, or about, or refer to your friend again. The only reason I posted in the first place is that two young guys I work with saw this thread and (foolishly) asked me to pontificate on this subject. I (foolishly) thought "why not". I will not initiate any other posts on this thread. I will be happy to respond to any questions that are directed to me on this thread. When the thread is closed I will leave your house. I will not post on any other threads.

Is that satisfactory?


Your giving old guys a bad name. Usually the young pups are all filled with piss and vinegar with a need to prove themselves.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

I (foolishly) thought "why not". I will not initiate any other posts on this thread. I will be happy to respond to any questions that are directed to me on this thread. When the thread is closed I will leave your house. I will not post on any other threads.

Is that satisfactory?

If you're going to play the hurt, put upon, hard done by little boy, then I'd say the sooner you leave the better.

I pointed out where you stepped on your ****.

I gave you a chance to man the fvck up.

If you cant straighten yourself out then fvck off.

[Royal]

Linedoggie:

If you are really intereste do some research. Try and get an original copy of Joe Adleman's "B 52 Reconnaissance Tips of the Trade". He was a genius. Get the whole thing. It runs about 100 pages. Not the abbreviated ones floating around the internet. He explains this a lot better than I do.

We did all sorts of crazy **** back in the day. We fought each other with swords and even sticks and stones. More recently we taught banging the ground with your pack as an expedient way of clearing a lane out of a minefield. Things change, we use things called rifles nowadays because they're quicker and more accurate than muskets, get the picture?


You can consider this information or not. I do not care.

If you don't care, why are you still dripping off about it?


If you're going to play the hurt, put upon, hard done by little boy, then I'd say the sooner you leave the better.

I pointed out where you stepped on your ****.

I gave you a chance to man the fvck up.

If you cant straighten yourself out then fvck off.

Well said mate.

[bikewrench]

Quote: [If you are really intereste do some research. Try and get an original copy of Joe Adleman's "B 52 Reconnaissance Tips of the Trade". He was a genius.]

My money was on a Plaster book but that's nice and obscure.;-)

Back to topic, when I was taught the technique we were told that it was used in Malaya and then taught at the Aussie Jungle Warfare school to US Recondo and other types during VN.
I would tend to agree that it was probably from WW2 originally though, LOTS of jungle patrolling obviously.

I'm wondering if it just has to do with being from 'down under' and rappelling wrong as well as you know, attacking the enemy, 'wrong'.;-)

[goose36]

From the ADF Government website

"Bdr Liam Varley 8/12 Mdm Regt snaps on a fresh magazine during a tunnel-of-love drill at Forward Air Controller training, Mt Bundey NT."

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1104/images/Sepia%20Varls%2001_th.jpg

In Australia it is Tunnel Of Love I don't care what you say pal

in that pic, he could very well doing a ''TUNNEL'' or a peel PAL! all he's doing is running and changing a mag, they are two differnt drills . only pouges call it a tunnel of love!

[gafkiwi]

in that pic, he could very well doing a ''TUNNEL'' or a peel PAL! all he's doing is running and changing a mag, they are two differnt drills . only pouges call it a tunnel of love!

Hey Goose, Is it my understanding the Aussy peel is what we Kiwi's refer to as a "Corridor"??? as opposed to the Standard peel or a Tunnel. Ngati may be able to also shed some light.

[goose36]

unsure mate, we just call it the peel.

[Andreas]

Might be off topic but marsuitor has a brilliant peel out video he filmed in Kosovo on the range. He films a squad on one file having contact, then peels out one by one, they get farther and farther back but he stays in the same position and they start angeling behind him after a while, then you suddenly see the camera man hauling ass to get out of the line of fire when it becomes apparant that his position is getting a bit dodgy.
heh, funny stuff.

Cheers
Andreas

[digrar]

only pouges call it a tunnel of love!

I suppose it depends when you served. My platoon had NCO's and platoon commanders from every battalion in the Regiment and we called it the tunnel of love. Funny, I never felt the love when we did it as a platoon for several km's at a time during PT.

[goose36]

no theres no love involved at all, we only called it the tunnel, the love thing makes it sound gay if you ask me.

[digrar]

Only if you're not secure in a bit man loving. A platoon that's sick together stick together. p-)

[James]

Are you saying that the information that I have presented in this thread is not true, correct, factual and historically verifiable but is instead a story to impress the kiddies?

Stop being a douchebag. We're really pretty easy to get along with.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

Hey Goose, Is it my understanding the Aussy peel is what we Kiwi's refer to as a "Corridor"??? as opposed to the Standard peel or a Tunnel. Ngati may be able to also shed some light.

Where's a whiteboard and my magnetic men when I need them.

As I understand it, the corridor and tunnel that we use NZ Army has been evolved from the peel.

We still use the peel for the 'dog leg' from a corridor or tunnel but not generally as a stand alone drill in itself.

The exception would be a contact from the half left or right; front or rear.

That photo of the drop-short above doesn't prove which drill, if any, that he is conducting.

As it was explained to me, the film 'Navy Seals' (Yeah, yeah, I know...)shows a standard, generic aussie peel in one of the first few scenes. They are all lined up behind one another, each guy firing, then peeling to the rear in sequence.

If you got every army together to demonstrate their drill you would find them to all be pretty much the same. Just different names. Only so many ways you can do fire and manouver.

To the original question, I was told as a young soldier that it had been designed during the Malaya Emergency and then refined during Borneo.

That Commando description sounds valid though.

[Sewen]

You guys are talking about this drill, right?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1101605852845484948&hl=nl


I've never heard it being called The Australian Peel before...

[California Joe]

You're all gay. Maj. Rogers thought of it 250 years ago.

[LineDoggie]

Rogers was an Austrian?

[digrar]

You guys are talking about this drill, right?



I've never heard it being called The Australian Peel before...

I'm Australian and I hadn't heard of it called the Australian peel until after I got out.

[bikewrench]

I just watched 'The Odd Angry Shot' again, on VHS no less. It has a pretty good break contact front or Australian peel demonstration from 1979.
Decent movie too.
A highlight was the previews left on the tape at the end, 'The Irishman' an Aussie movie with absolutely no end of non pc Irish-isms!;-)

[Opening Batsman]

You're all gay. Maj. Rogers thought of it 250 years ago.

Pretty sure the name is about the specific technique, not the general concept. General military concepts were usually thought of by the first bloke who picked up a heavy stick.

[Toddy]

in that pic, he could very well doing a ''TUNNEL'' or a peel PAL! all he's doing is running and changing a mag, they are two differnt drills . only pouges call it a tunnel of love!

He could well be doing that, but when the quote above the picture is a direct quote from the ADF then I would think they should know what they are talking about, don't you pal :)

Guess we can't all be as intelligent as you youngsters are though, gen y ****ing bother

[Opening Batsman]

Did you actually read what he wrote?

[Breakfast in Vegas]

I don't have any idea when the US military began to use this drill or even if it is taughtWe were taught the Australian peel (by that name as well) in the mid-90s, although I don't know if it is still being taught. Our instructors were SF, so it might have just been their own personal thing.

[Toddy]

Did you actually read what he wrote?

Did you actually read what the original quote from the ADF says??

[Sewen]

Seriously, reread what goose wrote.

Presumably, the tunnel of love and the australian peel are two different drills (I wouldn't know, I've never heard of either term before), the quote says "tunnel of love", and I'm sure the soldier in the pic is in a tunnel of love then.
However, you cant see anything in the pic. So the picture and it's caption only prove that a "tunnel of love" exists, wheter or not the tunnel of love = the australian peel remains unproven, and thus goose's point still stands...

[California Joe]

Pretty sure the name is about the specific technique, not the general concept. General military concepts were usually thought of by the first bloke who picked up a heavy stick.

Gee, thanks for the history lesson, Muppet arms. You should probably start a military concept forum. That'd be sweet.

[Ngati Tumatauenga]

...but when the quote above the picture is a direct quote from the ADF then I would think they should know what they are talking about, don't you pal :)

Quoted for irony.

[Toddy]

I concede defeat, and shall remover myself to the abyss that I crawled from

[digrar]

Did you actually read what the original quote from the ADF says??

You should know that what some muppet in the ADF media section says and what the boys in the Battalions are saying is not necessarily the same thing.
Slap yourself on the forehead and move on. p-)

[LaoSexMachine]

My platoon actually practice it now an then.

[Britboy]

Alright, I'll give in... We all know what the staggered-file break-contact-front drill goes like (although some apparently like to mix it up with WP, CS and Claymores!), and that seems to be called the Ozzie Peel (news to me but m'eh) but,

What the feck is the Tunnel Of Love?

I'm not sure if that sounds 70s erotic or just homoerotic, but someone please explain what this drill is all about?

[goose36]

a peel is usually done from single file and a tunnel[ tunnel of love for all you pouges and toddy] is usually from staggered or open file/formation. each country,regiment gay biker gang probably has there own type called a dozen different names.

[LineDoggie]

Pogues is the term...........................

[Opening Batsman]

Gee, thanks for the history lesson, Muppet arms. You should probably start a military concept forum. That'd be sweet.

No worries champ.

[Toddy]

You should know that what some muppet in the ADF media section says and what the boys in the Battalions are saying is not necessarily the same thing.
Slap yourself on the forehead and move on. p-)

I think I have successfully removed my head from me own arse...while we have the Aussies online and while I am trying to make amends, did anyone catch the Somme doco on ABC last night?

[goose36]

a little, any good?

[darmil]

In Canada we call it the Aussie peel back it's still used.Have done it live.

[Toddy]

a little, any good?

I thought it was well put together and I liked the personl touch they apportioned to the enlisted men and officers. I thought they probably could have done a bit more with animation of the advance to make it a little easier to understand, became a little disjointed during the attack and just had lots of clouds of smoke from the artillery barrage on the map (which is probably more realistic but didn't help for anyone not familiar with the battle, which I am not) all in all though a good watch

[Britboy]

a peel is usually done from single file and a tunnel[ tunnel of love for all you pouges and toddy] is usually from staggered or open file/formation. each country,regiment gay biker gang probably has there own type called a dozen different names.

Tunnel Of Love is just a staggered-file break-contact-front, heading to the rear?

Fair enough. Not very much to pick between them.

[goose36]

in a nutshell

[Wally1967]

........................................did anyone catch the Somme doco on ABC last night?

I did was interesting.