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View Full Version : China linked to Kevin Rudd's rebuff of George Bush's Guantanamo Bay plan



Fage
01-11-2009, 08:42 AM
January 10, 2009

THE Rudd Government denied a request from the Bush administration to resettle 17 Chinese locked up in Guantanamo Bay military prison after a number of warnings from Beijing not to take the former terror suspects.

Beijing heavily lobbied the federal Government against resettling the group of Muslims from northwestern China, known as Uyghurs, whom the US has cleared but refuses to send home for fear of their torture and possible execution.

The Canberra meeting - described as a mid-level diplomatic approach - took place about three weeks ago. It came as the Foreign Ministry in Beijing stressed publicly its opposition to any resettlement of the Uyghurs.
"We have said on many occasions that the 17 terrorist suspects detained at the US military base of Guantanamo are members of the Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement, which is listed as a terrorist group by the UN Security Council," a spokesman said.

"The Chinese Government requires these terrorist suspects be repatriated to China. We firmly oppose any countries receiving these people."
The Rudd Government told the Bush administration last week that it would not agree to a second formal request - made by the US in December - to resettle the group in Australia, saying they did not meet Australia's stringent national security and immigration criteria.

But The Weekend Australian can reveal the decision came after Beijing made at least two approaches to the Rudd Government about the Uyghurs.

Aside from the Canberra meeting, The Weekend Australian has learned of one other meeting between Australian and Chinese diplomats, in Beijing in November, in which Beijing made the same case.

A spokeswoman for Kevin Rudd yesterday denied the rejection was linked to any lobbying from Beijing.

"Any suggestion that the Government's decision was taken in response to pressure from any other country is wrong," the spokeswoman said.

"The Rudd Government received two requests from the United States Government to consider resettling a group of detainees from Guantanamo Bay ... those requests were considered against national security and immigration criteria and were rejected."

The Uyghurs are among about 60 detainees that the Bush administration no longer regards as a threat, but these detainees have been caught in the cracks of international diplomacy, with nowhere to go. The only country to accept any Uyghurs was Albania, one of Europe's poorest countries, taking five from Guantanamo in 2006 over the protests of the Chinese.

The Uyghurs have been cleared as a national security threat to the US and allies such as Australia for years.

Uyghurs belong to an autonomous region but, like Tibetans, have been subject to brutal repression.

While some, such as detainee Hozaifa Parhat, admitted weapons training with the Taliban, he said his only cause was to fight for independence for a homeland Uyghurs call Turkestan.

Sources said that while Beijing's representations fed into the Rudd Government's decision to deny the Bush administration, it was one of many factors the Government took into account and did not preclude it from looking at the Uyghurs' case again in the future.

Washington pushed hard with Canberra, Bush administration officials arguing that the Uyghurs would be a good fit in Australia because Australia boasts the largest Uyghur population of 3000 in the Western world.

While the request was denied, the Rudd Government has kept the door open and, like a number of European countries including Britain, it appears to be storing its diplomatic capital for use when Barack Obama takes office. It is expected that the new president and new secretary of state Hillary Clinton will take up the cause to resettle the Uyghurs quickly.

The head of the Uyghur community in the US, Washington-based Alim Seytoff, is hopeful with the change in administration the resettlement of the Uyghurs will be a step closer.

"It is really unfortunate that Australia has refused the request, but if they say they are looking at it on a case-by-case basis and resettle some of them, that would be great. But we understand the Chinese Government is extremely aggressive in its lobbying."

While Beijing has used forceful language, there has been no direct threat to Australia with regard to trade ties. "It doesn't work that way, although there is always that implication," said one source.

A legal representative for nine of the Uyghurs in Guantanamo, Boston-based Neil McGaraghan from the law firm Bingham McCutchen, said European parliamentarians have spoken privately of heavy-handed diplomatic approaches from the Chinese regarding the matter.

"There are threats to commercial relations - it's what we hear from our contacts in European countries," he said.

"There have been a number of prospects (to take the Uyghurs), but inevitably they fall off because of pressure from the Chinese."

The Bush administration's sudden urgency on the Uyghurs follows a district court decision in October when judge Ricardo Urbina ordered the Uyghurs to appear in his court in Washington DC, a move that edged them closer to US asylum.

The Bush administration immediately appealed. A decision could be handed down at any time from the appeals court, and rather than gamble on the court decision, the Bush administration is in an 11th hour diplomatic push to try to find the detainees a new home.

Source:http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24893752-2702,00.html

Adux
01-11-2009, 10:13 AM
The Manadarin speaking Prime Minister is creating quite lot of problems in the ABCA.

philbob
01-11-2009, 03:37 PM
what is the gernal Austrialian preception of him becuase everytime i read about him he seems like a huge tool

sinophile
01-11-2009, 05:12 PM
Hey that's not nice. Look how cool he is here...

http://www.youtube.com/v/_ipvdBnU8F8&hl=en&fs=1

Kilgor
01-11-2009, 05:33 PM
what is the gernal Austrialian preception of him becuase everytime i read about him he seems like a huge tool

He is risking traditional alliances by getting close to the Chinese, and im not just talking the American. The Japanese arn't happy either.

philbob
01-11-2009, 05:53 PM
Ok i see, that but that doesnt anwser my question what is his approval rating, what do people say on the stree? Do the Newspapers critizie him?

philbob
01-11-2009, 05:54 PM
Hey that's not nice. Look how cool he is here...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ipvdBnU8F8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ipvdBnU8F8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

there is no picture

grendel
01-11-2009, 07:39 PM
If these former Guantanamo Bay inmates were really nice peaceful blokes who could be persecuted by the Chinese govt upon their return, then why would the US not take them instead? Why would the US attempt dump these on their allies?


what is the gernal Austrialian preception of him becuase everytime i read about him he seems like a huge tool

That's because most posters here voted for the bloke that Rudd defeated in the last elections.


Ok i see, that but that doesnt anwser my question what is his approval rating, what do people say on the stree?

As of Nov. 2008, Mr Rudd's approval rating is at 70%.
http://au.nielsen.com/news/200512.shtml


Do the Newspapers critizie him?
It depends on which newspaper/publisher you're going to read. The tabloids by News Ltd. (anything with the address news.com.au such as the article above) would almost always criticise him. You are better off reading Fairfax papers such as the Sydney Morning Herald (www.smh.com.au) which tend to be more impartial.

Bush and Condi Rice have said before that it's an advantage to have a Western leader that the Chinese trust (who could mediate if a new US-China crisis erupts).

C.Fodder
01-11-2009, 07:49 PM
Ok i see, that but that doesnt anwser my question what is his approval rating, what do people say on the stree? Do the Newspapers critizie him?

His approval ratings were through the roof 12 mths ago, but a year in power has slowly brought it down, around 57% last i looked. That would pretty much be the case on the street as well.

We all make fun of him(nerd,geek,tool,etc.),but few actually hate him,YET.

Aussie newspapers critisise everyone,but Rudd seems to be getting off lightly, so far.

Hope this helps philbob.

sinophile
01-11-2009, 09:16 PM
My bad... he likes eating earwax.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_ipvdBnU8F8&hl=en&fs=1

philbob
01-11-2009, 09:59 PM
ok thankyou what has he actually acomplised that has made austrilia a better country?

@ fodder, why do you say yet ;)

i kinda see him as proto Obama so i think he could be used to chart how well mr. Obama will do in office

grendel
01-12-2009, 01:13 AM
see below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_rudd

philbob
01-12-2009, 01:22 AM
looked and so far am not impressed, did he run on a mantra of change and hope?

digrar
01-12-2009, 01:35 AM
All he had to do was not be John Howard. Even though he is a facsimile of JH with thinning grey hair, vertically challenged stature and wears glasses, he still got up.

Opening Batsman
01-12-2009, 02:27 AM
Ok i see, that but that doesnt anwser my question what is his approval rating, what do people say on the stree? Do the Newspapers critizie him?

If it's any consolation, most people in the military reckon he's a knob.

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-12-2009, 03:04 AM
Yeah but most people in the military are knobs anyway. Takes one to know one.

:)


The Manadarin speaking Prime Minister is creating quite lot of problems in the ABCA.

Why is he? Unlike the previous douche in office Rudd is actually showing some balls and playing the political game quite well. By comparison Howard would (probably has) suck George's **** if given the chance.


what is the gernal Austrialian preception of him becuase everytime i read about him he seems like a huge tool

A tool to whom? Unlike the other options Rudd and his team have brought change, they have and will stabilize the workforce. They will ensure or at the very least try to ensure workers are treated fairly. Probably the biggest reason for Howards defeat was his attempt to break up the unions which he did progressively over a period of time. When it was assumed he had done so he introduced laws that would. No that did **** workers over big time. Guess what. He lost the election.


He is risking traditional alliances by getting close to the Chinese, and im not just talking the American. The Japanese arn't happy either.

So our Prime Minister can speak fluent Mandarin. So what. The guy is a career diplomat out of the Foreign Affairs ministry. Before politics he was a diplomat. Now if that gives the impression that he is getting closer to the Chinese then the Americans so be it. But you know as well as I do that, that is not the case.

Supe
01-12-2009, 03:24 AM
I'm not a fan of mr consensus (PM Rudd) but to think that China has that much leverage to force this decision is ridiculous. There were other factors in play (a constituency with no interest in 'rehabilitating' extremists at taxpayers expense, counsel from security agencies and advisors plus recidivist nature of former gitmo detainees.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52670-2004Oct21.html

Ordie
01-12-2009, 03:35 AM
I find it ironic that a former penal colony would deny prisoners.

digrar
01-12-2009, 03:39 AM
We like out crims old school, steal a loaf of bread, get sent to Australia for 5 years hard labour. Don't be sending us your sketchy religious terrorist types. You caught them, you keep them. p-)

Kilgor
01-12-2009, 03:49 AM
So our Prime Minister can speak fluent Mandarin. So what. The guy is a career diplomat out of the Foreign Affairs ministry. Before politics he was a diplomat. Now if that gives the impression that he is getting closer to the Chinese then the Americans so be it. But you know as well as I do that, that is not the case.


Did you notice I said more than just the American alliance.

I was refering to this inexcusable incident. And the Japanese had the right to be pissed off.

"MELBOURNE, Apr 7 (IPS) - Prime Minister Kevin Rudd’s decision to leave Japan off the itinerary of his current 17-day world tour -- that includes the United States, Europe and China -- has raised the ire of many in the land of the rising sun.

According to sources quoted by several Australian news outlets, Japan was "furious" at what it regards as a snub from the Australian premier. One prominent analyst, Prof. Hugh White, told ABC news that "what we’re seeing is some very deep-seated anxieties in Japan about where Australian policy is going, and those anxieties in turn derive from Japan’s concerns about where Asia as a whole is going".

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=41878

Violet Fashion by Mindy
01-12-2009, 03:58 AM
Have you ever though he did not have a reason to go to Japan?

Why call in if you don't need to go there?

ren0312
01-12-2009, 04:04 AM
Seeing that Australia has a large 1st to 2nd generation ethnic Chinese population I could actually see the point here.

ren0312
01-12-2009, 04:07 AM
Have you ever though he did not have a reason to go to Japan?

Why call in if you don't need to go there?

nvm.............................

digrar
01-12-2009, 04:09 AM
Have you ever though he did not have a reason to go to Japan?

Why call in if you don't need to go there?

Second biggest economy in the world and still a major trading partner, going to China and not going to Japan, while on a major international tour shows a poor lack of judgment on his behalf, especially given his diplomatic background.

chooky
01-12-2009, 06:37 AM
The main stream Aussie press idolise him the same way that the US press are fawning over Obama.

LazerLordz
01-12-2009, 06:42 AM
Rudd's convergent security approach is something that Australia's traditional allies will have to take some time to get used to.

grendel
01-12-2009, 07:09 PM
That Japan/China tour "anxiety" was trumpeted by the Japanese media and adopted by the Australian media.

The Japanese govt gets more flack from successive Aussie govts every year when they go whaling in the southern ocean.